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Doc_Savage_NDMF
07-05-2015, 20:22
This isn't meant to be a full blown explanation, just a quick hit on what's different in pCARS from most other titles.

Tires will be at varying temps when you start a session depending on the car, the series and the type of session you are running.

Time Trial (TT) mode will start you with heated tires, but they will still take a few laps to come in proper.
Free Practice mode (FP) will start you on new sticker tires. Most times they will be cold and very slick for the first lap and will take time to come in.
Single Player (SP) Race mode will start you on tires simulating an out or warm up lap. The 1st lap will be tricky, but not nearly as slick as FP. Practice and Qualifying will vary depending on the series. As a general rule of thumb take it easy the first few corners until you are sure you have the car under you.
Multi Player (MP) Race mode follows the same guidelines as SP Race mode. Most JIP practice and Quali sessions start out slick and need a few laps to get to temp.

Tires are subject to both Heat and Wear. Overheating tires is not good, they get slick causing a car to push, wash out or come around. Really hot and it won't want to go anywhere with you...

Don't expect the same grip level from car to car or from tire type to tire type. Modern Slicks, Classic racing tires, Street tires, Performance tires just to name a few. Then there's the compounds, inters and rain tires...

FFB is driven by the tire model. There will be some help threads and FAQs along shortly that will explain what you need to know to make it "feel" right for you. There are tweaks on both the controller and car set up side of things to help dial in that perfect for you feel. However, it should be noted that there is no one correct FFB for the whole game here, just as there is no one correct car feel in the real world. A 74 Vega doesn't feel like a formula open wheeler or like a GT3 car. Tires, set up, whether a car has Aero or not, all of these things affect how a car feels aside from the basic car's geometry and will affect how the car generates FFB and feel.

Last but not least: Don't try to just push a car all over the place and expect it to magically stick. Slow in, fast out is a good starting point. Remember that each car will have specific tendencies, you will have to adapt your driving to WHAT your driving and WHERE you're driving it to be fast. This is especially true when it comes to tire heat...

This is not a complete list by far, just a few things out of the box to help transition into a dynamic tire model with few canned FFB effects.

If you have specific questions, post them up. There's a bunch of guys ready, willing and able to help you make the most of your pCARS racing experience.

Cheers..!
_

Invincible
07-05-2015, 21:04
Quite a short post for you, doc... :p

yusupov
07-05-2015, 21:13
im looking to add more surface feel to the FFB -- if possible, more feeling of inertia & weight transfer as well.

the former is basic in principle (i get i want to maximize z-axis forces) but im not sure how best to go about it in practice. right now ive got x & y at 50%, z @ 100, master at 36. tire force, FFB & profile all set to 100 (G27 wheel). i felt no real connection to the surface before, very glassy, & this has helped somewhat. jw if there is a better way of going about it or i should continue messing around w/ this approach.

the second...no idea what to do. sims that i feel excellent weight transfer are rf2 & assetto corsa, very good is game stock car, poor is iracing; if that helps any. from what ive read you subscribe to the iR idea of ffb only coming from the steering rack, however i find pCARS ffb to be less stiff than iR. if you or anyone has any tips would be much appreciated, thanks!

Timmynator
07-05-2015, 21:14
Quite a short post for you, doc... :p

He's still warming up, give him a few minutes ;)

could_do_better
07-05-2015, 21:16
The G27 has a none linear torque output that means you feel very little until the FFB demand is above around 15%. You can tune this out with the deadzone removal setting. I believe most use 0.15-0.18 for G27's

Doc_Savage_NDMF
07-05-2015, 21:27
Have to break them in gently. If you feed them too much too soon the brains just swell and leak all over the place... :)

Howie
07-05-2015, 21:30
im looking to add more surface feel to the FFB -- if possible, more feeling of inertia & weight transfer as well.

the former is basic in principle (i get i want to maximize z-axis forces) but im not sure how best to go about it in practice. right now ive got x & y at 50%, z @ 100, master at 36. tire force, FFB & profile all set to 100 (G27 wheel). i felt no real connection to the surface before, very glassy, & this has helped somewhat. jw if there is a better way of going about it or i should continue messing around w/ this approach.

the second...no idea what to do. sims that i feel excellent weight transfer are rf2 & assetto corsa, very good is game stock car, poor is iracing; if that helps any. from what ive read you subscribe to the iR idea of ffb only coming from the steering rack, however i find pCARS ffb to be less stiff than iR. if you or anyone has any tips would be much appreciated, thanks! Maybe wrong thread for you question. But, G27 needs a little "dead zone removal", in options somewhere. Also there are three main FFB sliders. Each in a different location. What I think you want to adjust is the individual car FFB, slider in the Garage/Setup/FFB. Slider at the top is set to 26 by default. Raise it to above 50, and it goes to over 100. (200?) That should do the trick. Oh you might want to drop the over all FFB in the options/configure location down from default 85, to 50 or 60.

Christiaan van Beilen
07-05-2015, 21:31
Have to break them in gently. If you feed them too much too soon the brains just swell and leak all over the place... :)

Yeah, that sounds too much of a messy business. Especially on this fresh forum.

I was about to hit the like button on your OP though and even more so on this post. Hit the warning star instead. Oh well, plus ONE on to you. :)

yusupov
07-05-2015, 21:55
ive tuned out the deadzone, my questoins related to surface feel & weight transfer -- the one i think is curable is the surface feel, the weight transfer i think, like iracing, i just have trouble feeling whats going on with the car the way i can in AC/gsc/rf2, and i dont know if i can cure that.

Howie
07-05-2015, 22:13
ive tuned out the deadzone, my questoins related to surface feel & weight transfer -- the one i think is curable is the surface feel, the weight transfer i think, like iracing, i just have trouble feeling whats going on with the car the way i can in AC/gsc/rf2, and i dont know if i can cure that. Did you change the FFB slider, under Garage/setups/FFB from 26 to a higher number? Like 50 to 100. :culpability:

yusupov
07-05-2015, 22:17
yep, in fact, coming back off a test at brands hatch, i think thats pretty much resolved the surface issue. i kept z axis @ 100 & bump up master to about 40, put the others x & y down to 50. im sure its not the best but i can feel even the seams in the road now

could_do_better
07-05-2015, 22:19
FFB is very subjective and has always been a major discussion point, at least we have the ability to tune it to our own preference. Just like the sims that have gone before the FFB threads will be very active, full of opinions and no doubt everyone will find the settings that suit their own style eventually. No two rigs or people are the same.

The Devs did a great job of offering flexibility.

yusupov
07-05-2015, 22:22
exactly, i think the final decision to have all these options is great. default FFB is not bad but why not give people the option to add effects if it helps their immersion

could_do_better
07-05-2015, 22:24
The HUD FFB meter can help you make sure you are not saturating your ffb too much while you search for that perfect balance.

Remember most wheels cannot deliver the dynamic range of a real wheel and there is nothing the devs can do about that!

yusupov
07-05-2015, 22:27
is that in-game? or do i have to enable it with a switch on the .exe? i heard about it but havent gotten around to try it yet, would love to have that on

could_do_better
07-05-2015, 22:29
In game cycle through the HUD options until the telemetry appears.

You can see which key/button is assigned to Cycle HUD in the Controller settings.

yusupov
07-05-2015, 22:43
oooh thx i didnt realize it was there the whole time

Patrik Marek
07-05-2015, 22:55
perhaps at some point (if it hasn't been done already) each wheel will have it's own thread, so tis' easier to discuss it at one place.
one settings for one wheel won't do magic on different wheel,


and general "rules & suggestions" could be a sticky threads so that it stays clean

Howie
07-05-2015, 23:53
The default Spindle FFB slider, in the Garage/setup/FFB is set to 26 for every car and every wheel. That slider goes up to either 150 or 200! People need to know they have to adjust this for every car, before driving and "save" it. Actually save it twice. As there is two menus where it must be saved. And as every car and every controller is different. Without raising it. I don't think most wheels will have any road feel, at 26.

yusupov
07-05-2015, 23:57
yes but this information would be prominent in any individual wheel thread. it doesnt really have to be individual wheels for ex logitech wheels can be grouped, thrustmaster can be grouped, fanatec there is probably too much variance between them

capetuso
08-05-2015, 06:52
I think it would had been better a greater default value than 26 int the garage FFB slider, because everyone is having to raise it.
Anyway I really hope to see detailed FFP setup configs for my Thurstmaster T300.
Thanks for the info.

niwrA
08-05-2015, 07:10
Is this why I don't feel the curbs in my DF Pro wheel at all? I can hear that I am driving on the curbs, but there is no feedback in the wheel whatsoever. I think I already tried changing almost every setting possible, but I will try changing Spindle one more time.

Alan Dallas
08-05-2015, 08:27
Is this why I don't feel the curbs in my DF Pro wheel at all? I can hear that I am driving on the curbs, but there is no feedback in the wheel whatsoever. I think I already tried changing almost every setting possible, but I will try changing Spindle one more time.

Spindle Master Scale will determine how much of the suspension 'noise' as I call it, is transmitted into the steering rack. Which is why it's part of the cars setup and not in the FFB setup. So yes, increase it if you want to feel every little bump and judder that compresses your cars springs. Myself I like it soft and set it to around 30-32 for most cars, with everything else at default. I crank up the Deadzone Removal to 0.16(In the Calibrate FFB section) for my TM TX. FFB and Tyre Force I leave default.

Invincible
08-05-2015, 09:30
I think it would had been better a greater default value than 26 int the garage FFB slider, because everyone is having to raise it.


Not everyone would have to raise it - not for every car at least.

For me, (DFGT) in a Formula-C, 26 is even a tad too high. I lower it to around 20 and increase some other values instead. Because otherwise, there is so much "rumbling" (when locking the wheels for example), that I fear to break my glass-table with my wheel.

Doc_Savage_NDMF
08-05-2015, 10:23
Might I suggest not attaching your wheel to a glass table...???

If I did that I'd take a bath in glass every session... :distant:

Cheers..!
_

Invincible
08-05-2015, 11:01
Might I suggest not attaching your wheel to a glass table...???

If I did that I'd take a bath in glass every session... :distant:

Cheers..!
_

I don't have any other options at the moment, unfortunately :(

But a Playseat with proper steel fixing for the wheel is on top of my "things-to-get-list" this year!

Captain_Swoopty
08-05-2015, 15:42
Have to break them in gently. If you feed them too much too soon the brains just swell and leak all over the place... :)

The only thing of mine that is leaking all over the place is my radiator cause of the a**hole that just break checked me... :(

Yorkie065
08-05-2015, 17:14
Also something to possibly add (may be a bit of a placebo effect but this I believe this is what is happening):

Optimal tyre temperatures and optimal tyre pressures are two different things! You can have tyre temperatures displaying good temperatures, yet the car still isn't quite biting into the road as much as you would like/ it should due to the pressures being down/ not quite there. Generally in a race (multiplayer or single), it takes around 1-2 laps for tyre temps to get up to optimal temperature and 2-4 laps for pressures to get there too. Only then does the car feel properly nailed and dialed in before tyre deg starts to come into play. There have been times when I have optimal temperatures showing but I'm not getting the grip I should be. Also, as far as I know there is no way of seeing what your current pressures are whilst driving, only what you set them to be in the setup screen.

May want to re-word it so it makes a bit more sense. Or clarify that this is actually happening/ a thing. Certainly feels like it.

MDK1974
08-05-2015, 17:55
Does anybody have any suggestions on the game settings (FFB in particular) with a DFGT? I'm struggling... :(

WhiteFox
08-05-2015, 17:57
Last but not least: Don't try to just push a car all over the place and expect it to magically stick. Slow in, fast out is a good starting point. Remember that each car will have specific tendencies, you will have to adapt your driving to WHAT your driving and WHERE you're driving it to be fast. This is especially true when it comes to tire heat...
Just curieus, how long does it take you to get a feel for the car and tires? :)

Ischemica
08-05-2015, 20:17
Does anybody have any suggestions on the game settings (FFB in particular) with a DFGT? I'm struggling... :(

This is from Seanspeed over on the AC forum

"For those who are struggling with FFB with the Logitech G27, these are the settings I use(gotten from somebody else). This makes a massive, massive difference for me, so I would strongly suggest trying it before giving up or thinking everything sucks.

Overall FFB strength - set to 100(stock is 85). This is found in the deadzone/sensitivity menu, separate from the special FFB settings. Important.

Once in the special FFB settings,

Tire Force - 140

This is the most important difference you can make. This makes it go from weak to respectable in terms of strength and introduces a lot more detail that wasn't there before.

Dead Zone Removal - 0.02

Scoop knee - 0.50

Scoop reduction - 0.10

And then in the My Garage setup options, fine tune things from there with individual cars, with the master level generally making a big impact on strength(it can get very strong very quickly). But these other settings should provide a solid baseline setup.

Hope this helps. "

I have the DGFT as well and have got decent results. Here is a pic of the Logitech profiler, except I use 900 degrees of rotation and 100% overall effects strength.200733

Bleis
09-05-2015, 09:25
The G27 has a none linear torque output that means you feel very little until the FFB demand is above around 15%. You can tune this out with the deadzone removal setting. I believe most use 0.15-0.18 for G27's

I use a G27, can someone please explain to me, why I should set my deadzone removal to 0.15-0.18. And if I do that, wont my stearing get more loose (give me a bigger deadzone):confused:

seanos
09-05-2015, 14:59
g27 has a natural deadzone where the motors aren't engaging the steering column.. its about 10 degrees either side of center.. deadzone removal somehow fixes this for the most part.

On another note, I wonder why there is a distinct lack of vibration from bumps in the road, unlike Assetto Corsa where there is quite a bit of it. I have a decent setup for ffb now, but i still miss the vibration from AC.

There was a post on /r/pcars where a guy claimed to have two graph lines on his ffb telemetry meter (one for 'jitter' as he put it), but that it's now disapeared. The way he described how he got the 2nd line turns out to be most likely incorrect, but i'm wondering if anyone else has had this (possibly mythical) '2nd line'.

Cheers.

BabaBooey
09-05-2015, 15:52
That was me. I'm still trying to figure out if I was hallucinating or what, because I swear it felt great and there was a second line on the HUD that seemed to indicate rumble. I was so happy I closed the game and went to have dinner and when I came back I couldn't replicate it.

Now I'm not sure if I'm just going mad.

yusupov
09-05-2015, 16:08
hey, i too have seen the white whale.... :)

i assume you mean the white line that shows up underneath the yellow. i was going to ask what it indicated etc but ive only seen it once so i didnt bother... & now i forget the car/track combination...

its true, i swear!

BabaBooey
09-05-2015, 17:05
hey, i too have seen the white whale.... :)

i assume you mean the white line that shows up underneath the yellow. i was going to ask what it indicated etc but ive only seen it once so i didnt bother... & now i forget the car/track combination...

its true, i swear!

Yep that's the one. It would go crazy when any bumps in the road were hit.

So if I'm not the only one who saw it it sounds like a definite gltitch in the way ffb is being handled.

seanos
09-05-2015, 19:36
There's a pretty good thread about ffb here:

http://www.isrtv.com/forums/topic/17810-project-cars-force-feedback-tips-and-settings/

Of note is post #14, where he talks about SoP settings. I've had a play with it, and it seems to help with the bumps/kurbs, etc. When I have the telemetry up, theres quite a bit of activity when on grass/dirt, but there's still some subtle detail on roads that seem to not get picked up by my wheel. I can feel it in AC, but not pCars.

Either way, I've gotten a much better understanding of the ffb system that I did a day ago.. hopefully someone smart can decipher the menu options and make a thorough guide! :)

yusupov
09-05-2015, 19:41
hmm, ive been loading up z-forces & get curb/road effects with SOP turned off.

also hadnt even touched spindle arm or..whatever that is..

oh dear, almost wish i hadnt read that. :)

Jenna Tailya
19-05-2015, 01:19
Hi Doc, I have a question about tires (not sure where to ask it)

SO: from free practice to time trial in game on the same car with setup loaded " do the tires change???

explanation: 2:08 Bathurst free practice - 2:16 "and a handful" time trial

Help me understand.

Jenna:)

devilinme
20-01-2016, 00:07
hello there to all.. i got a issue, with a link to a video i made !

So the problem lies in my tires dont got up or down in the temperature.. they change the temperature but not for a lot.. the video explain for it self, its on real hear, tc off, drive assist off .stability off.. im pushing the car to spin and heat the wheels .. but...
the video is short .. but i can tell i did a 2 hours pratice mode ... always the same temps even after 20 laps .. i changed the setup of the car of everyway possible to see if any do any good .. but .. always with the same problem.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcDP5B4A84M