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View Full Version : Project Cars Tuning Guide : 3f and case studies now live!



willfred_TandZproduction
08-05-2015, 21:36
hello all, here is our tuning guide we have created during the period in which the game was being developed.
This section is for the simple adjustments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtpKkAuojT0&index=1&list=PL0mMUyR61ger2c3bgtJMzhXaWZcl0IPaA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQF1poJshJo&feature=gp-n-o&google_comment_id=z13fifyhdnunxneoh04cebtxwzmazfdruno0k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEbVxGzTejs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFexykED22c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FziwAqkLIZA
Parts E and F can be found here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22501-Project-Cars-Tuning-Guide&p=894636&viewfull=1#post894636)

This section below will have the advanced settings
Part 3a can be found here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22501-Project-Cars-Tuning-Guide&p=899898&viewfull=1#post899898)
Part 3B can be found here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22501-Project-Cars-Tuning-Guide&p=912734&viewfull=1#post912734)
parts 3C and 3D can be found here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22501-Project-Cars-Tuning-Guide-Damper-guide-(3B)-now-live&p=920432&viewfull=1#post920432)
The 3E can be found here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22501-Project-Cars-Tuning-Guide-Spring-amp-castor-guide-(3C-amp-3D)-Now-live!&p=951028&viewfull=1#post951028)
The final part (3f and the introduction and first part of the case studies can be found here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22501-Project-Cars-Tuning-Guide-Gearing-(3E)-is-Now-live!&p=979980&viewfull=1#post979980).
As always feel free to ask any questions

durino69
09-05-2015, 00:00
Hi to all new Project C.A.R.S friends.

@willfred great idea to get familiar with car set-ups. looking forward to seeing other videos.

This is from another thread and it helped me a lot with understanding what to look for and how to set up a car. Also note this was from another Sim made by SimBin, but still applies to pCARS. Hope it will be helpful for you guys.

At the end there are some common questions which are answered by couple of FIA GT race car drivers.

Enjoy


BRAKES
Pressure - Adjusts overall force applied on the brakes. At 100%, full force will be applied to the brakes. When the best percentage of brake pressure is applied for a car for a specific circuit, the brakes are less likely to lock up when cornering.
Bias - Adjusts the balance of braking pressure between the front and the rear brakes.
Duct - Increases or decreases the duct to adjust the brake temperature. Too cool or too warm brakes are less efficient, not stopping/slowing the car as quickly.

Radiator Opening - Adjusts the air flow to radiator, which helps cool the engine. Monitors water and oil temperatures. If they are higher than 100c, increase the air flow to the radiator. The larger the opening, the cooler the engine will run, making it safer to run at higher RPMs.

Tyre Temperature and Pressure Readouts (Centre Screen) Detail of tyre temperature and pressure readouts
View the tyre temperatures and pressure for each of the four tyres. For tyres on the left side of the car, the upper numbers represent temperature for the outside, middle, and inside of the tyre. For tyres on the right side of the car, the upper numbers represent temperatures for the inside, middle, and outside of the tyre. The bottom number is the tyre pressure of each tyre as of the last time the car was on the grid/circuit. Tyre temperature and pressure impact how well the car grips the road, which in turn affects how well the car handles. For more detail on this, see the sections on Tyre Pressure and Camber. In Simulation mode, it takes approximately 2-3 laps for the tyre temperature and pressure to equalize for maximum grip and pressure gradients.

Water Readout - Temperature of the car’s water cooling system. Try to keep this temperature under 100C. Air temperature extremes can affect the water cooling system. To adjust water temperature, use a smaller or larger radiator opening.
Oil Readout - Temperature of the car’s oil. Temperature will change during practice and qualifying sessions. Try to keep this under 100C. Oil temperature is tied to the water temperature and its radiator opening. To adjust oil temperature, use a smaller or larger radiator opening.


Tyre Pressure - Adjusts the amount of air pressure in the tyres. Tyre pressure affects car control as well as tyre wear. Each tyre has an optimum amount of pressure at which it yields the most grip. Decreasing or increasing the pressure from this point lessens the grip. Ideally, the optimum pressure is when the centre tyre temperature is the average of the inner + outer tyre
temperatures once the tyre gets up to operating temperature (about 85-95C). This usually takes 2-3 laps. Additionally, the higher the pressure, the stiffer the car will be.


Fast Bump - Controls the rapid upward movement of this suspension corner following bumps and curbs. This Bump is described as “Fast” because the damper is moving up (compressing) in a rapid motion, usually above 100mm/sec (use telemetry). So this adjustment controls how a tyre conforms to the road as it’s negotiating the leading edge-to-peak of a bump or road undulation. If you find the car pushing to the outside of the track in a “skating” fashion over bumps, then soften (lower) this setting. If the car floats and changes direction erratically, then stiffen (higher) this setting. When in doubt, go softer.


Slow Bump - Controls the mild UPWARD movement of this suspension corner caused by a driver input (steering, braking, throttle). This Bump is described as “Slow” because the damper is moving up (compressing) in a slow motion, usually below 70mm/sec damper speed (use telemetry). Used to affect chassis balance while we are transitioning into, and out, of the corners. Decreasing this number will speed up how quickly a corner accepts weight transfer while we are transitioning. Increasing will slow it down.


Fast Rebound - Controls the rapid DOWNWARD movement of this suspension corner following bumps and curbs. This Rebound is described as “Fast” because this damper is moving down (extending) in a rapid motion, usually above 100mm/sec (use telemetry). So this adjustment controls how a tyre conforms to the road as it’s negotiating the peakto- trailing edge of a bump or road undulation. If the fast bump setting has been changed, then it’s usually a good idea to change fast rebound in a similar manner.


Slow Rebound - Controls the mild DOWNWARD movement of this suspension corner caused by a driver input (steering, braking, throttle). This Rebound is described as “Slow” because the damper is moving down (extending) in a slow motion, usually below 70mm/ sec damper speed (use telemetry). Used to affect chassis balance while transitioning into, and out, of the corners. Decreasing this number will speed up how quickly this corner gives up - or “sheds” - weight transfer while we are transitioning. Increasing this setting will slow it down.


Springs - Adjusts the tension of the springs. Less tension (or softer springs) yields better grip but slows response time to driver input. More tension (or stiffer springs) makes the car respond more quickly to driver input, but yields less grip.


Camber - Adjusts the angle of the wheel in relation to the driving surface. Negative camber makes the top of the tyres tilt inward towards the centre of the chassis, and helps give better grip through the corners. Though used less frequently, positive camber means that the wheels tilt outward, which gives some stability in a straight line but less grip when cornering. For road racing cars, only negative camber is used.
Ideal camber can be tuned using tyre temperatures as the guide. The inner tyre temperatures should be about 7-10c hotter than the outer tyre temperatures, slightly less at the
rear. The amount of (negative) camber used will vary, based on the type of suspension and amount of roll resistance (springs and antiroll bars) used in the set-up. The stiffer the roll resistance, the less negative camber needed. The less efficient the suspension, the more negative camber needed.


Caster - Adjust the degree the tyre leans forward or back at the top of the wheel. Caster increases or decreases directional stability. Positive caster provides the directional stability, yet too much positive caster makes steering more difficult. Negative caster requires less steering effort but can cause the car to wander down straights.

Ride Height - Adjusts how high the bottom of the car is off of the ground. The lower the ride height, the tighter the suspension, and the lower the car’s centre of gravity will be. Adjusting the ride height too low can make bumpy tracks tricky because the car is more likely to bottom out.


Splitter - Adjusts the level of downforce applied by the splitter. Adds front-end grip at speed. The higher the number, the more air the front wing deflects, and the more downforce
and drag (slowing top speed). There are only two choices: High-speed (setting of 1) and Normal (setting of 2). At most tracks, using normal (2) is recommended, but at Monza, high speed (1) is recommended.


Wing - Adjusts the level of downforce at the rear of the car, and is the main adjustment for aerodynamic balance. After deciding on a front splitter, use the rear wing to dial-in
the aerodynamic balance. Total amount of adjustment is 10 for NGT cars and 12 for GT cars. For splitter setting “1”, select a wing setting of 4-7. For splitter setting “2”, select a wing setting of 8-12. The greater the rear wing setting, the more aero drag, which slows top speed.

Toe-in (Front and Rear) - Adjusts the degree the front of the wheels angle towards or away from each other. This affects the directional stability and initial corner turn-in. On the front, the preferred set-up is usually a slight amount of toe-out (negative settings), as this helps turn-in.
On the rear, the preferred set-up is usually toe-in (positive settings) as toe-out createsinstability.
Too much toe (positive or negative) can slow the car down with increased rolling drag.
Too much toe-in in either direction causes understeer and tyre wear. As this is not a major setup tweak, the default settings are recommended.

FIA GT race car drivers Henrik Roos and Christophe Bouchut join
SimBin Development Team to share essential sim racing
techniques that give gamers a competitive edge.

When braking after a long straight for a very slow turn, the car locks the wheels/brakes and starts sliding in forward motion.
HR: I would adjust the brakes more to the rear.
CB: Turn the brake bias bar to that end of the car which is not locking; reduce camber, reduce anti drive and/or antilift; softer antiroll bars.
SBDT: Move the brake bias further to the rear or brake earlier.

The car understeers in medium and high speed turns.
HR: . It could be many things but first I would see if lowering the rear wing helps, because it also helps the car reach its top speed.
CB: Reduce front ride height; reduce rear wing
SBDT: Either increase the front splitter setting or reduce the rear wing angle. Further fine tuning could be done with the rake angle of the chassis. This would be facilitated by changes to the rideheight, which ideally should be at least an inch higher at the rear. As with all other settings though, this will affect other aspects of the setup.

The car spins when I start applying the accelerator after passing an apex (presumably
in a flat out zone).
HR: This could result from many different things. Soften the low speed on the rear and follow up on loser antiroll bar rear. WARNING: Could give high speed understeer if over done.
CB: Reduce antisquat, soften rear damper, lower speed bump, increase rear toe in.
SBDT: Try decreasing the differential lock to aid power delivery here. Alternately, try softening the rear slow bump settings on the shocks in combination with more front slow rebound settings and stiffening the front antiroll bar.

The car looses grip/balance on bumpy areas of track.
HR: Your car could have too hard springs, or to much high speed bump.
CB: Softer springs, soften rear damper and high speed bump.
SBDT: Initially, softer springs would be a solution, but with softer springs, the ride height should be increased as well because the suspension travel would be greater as would the likelihood of bottoming out on bad bumps. For example, Donington at the bottom of Craner curves has a bumpy section where if the springs are too soft you need a considerable amount more ride height to compensate. Additionally, some fine tuning with the fast bump and fast rebound to the balance would probably be needed.

Remember: Bump: How quickly the chassis is allowed to move down
Rebound: How quickly the chassis is allowed to move up

What is the difference between different tyre brands and compounds? Why are my hard tyres so cold and why do my soft tyres overheat and wear quickly? What are the optimum tyre temperatures?
HR: The difference in tyre manufacturing is a well-kept secret and changes from year to year. Optimum tyre temp is 80C with no more than 10 degrees difference from inside to outside of tyre.
CB: Different tyre brands have different constructions and different compouds: a soft compound (soft tyre) provides more grip and the tyre surface has to do more deformation work and so becomes hotter; the higher the temperature the more grip and the more wear; optimum temperature is 80-100C.
SBDT: Dunlop:
Most forgiving, heats up quickly, more low-speed grip with higher fall off at high loads.
Needs most camber of the bunch. Softest spring rate. Medium wear. Highest rolling drag.
Peak temperature of 99C.
Michelin:
The most precise tyre. Needs least amount of camber. Heats up relatively quickly (but a bit more slowly than the Dunlops). Features average grip with low fall off at high loads.
Stiffest tyre with highest spring rate. Lowest rolling drag. Best wear. Peak temperature of 99C. Probably the fastest over long runs.
Pirelli: Highest base grip once it gets up to temperature. This is the most sensitive tyre to temperature, so it feels like it takes a bit longer to warm up. Medium rolling drag, medium stiffness spring rate. Worst wear. Peak temperature of 105C.
If you choose the wrong compound for the conditions, the tyre temp guage will tell you that. Optimum temp ranges are 85-105C usually. If you are too far out of this range with a MEDUIM tyre choice, then think about
changing compounds. If the temps seem low (under 75C), switch to a SOFT compound.
If the temps run high (over 110C), use a HARD tyre compound. Allow 4 or 5 laps for the tyres to really get up to their operating temperature.
The soft tyres wear the most quickly even if you have the temperature within range; the mediums less and the hards the least. Keep in mind that softer tyres at 110C aren’t always faster than the next harder compound at 85C.
Soft - To be used in qualifying or in cold conditions. Also some of the rear-heavy cars can use a soft front combined with a harder rear to good effect.
Meduim - The most common choice. Gives the best combination of grip and heat.
Hard - Used when it is very hot out. Also sometimes used on the rear of a heavy car, or when you need maximum life out of your tyre and are willing to sacrifice a little grip.
The optimum tyre temperatures are 85-105C for Dunlops and Michelin, 90-110C for Pirelli’s.

What are toe-in/toe-out settings and how will they physically affect the handling of my car?
HR: Toe-in makes your car a little bit more steady during braking, and toe-out makes it steer into the corner a little better.
CB: Toe-in: Wheels aligned in a way that they are pointing inwards; toe-in generally increases lateral grip - but also increases tyre temperatures and rolling resistance; stabilizes car under braking.
Toe-out: Wheels aligned in a way that they are pointing outwards; front toe-out improves turn in.
SBDT: Having the front wheels toe out slightly can improve turn in response into corners, also can settle the front end down the straights reducing the tendency for the car to wander, Ideally a small amount for example –0.50 would be a good starting point.

What are antiroll bar settings and how will they affect handling of the car?
HR: The setting of the Viper is hard in the front and medium in the back.
CB: Antiroll bars influence the dynamic wheel loads. Different settings provide different wheel load distributions and so different handling characteristics. Basically, stiffer front antiroll bar gives more understeer and stiffer rear antiroll bar gives more oversteer and vice versa.
SBDT: Stiff antiroll bars give the chassis a more rigid, direct feel and promote faster tyre degradation compared with softer settings. Softer settings may have a looser feel, but can improve the car’s control by reducing the speed of the weight transfer (how quickly the chassis will respond to inputs from the driver controls), though it may not be precise enough for a fast chicane where fast weight transfer is more desirable. Ideally the front antiroll bar would always be around 70% more than what the rear is set to.

I never reach to use the 6th gear, what’s wrong with my setup?
HR: In this case I would say change the gear ratio. Could also be too much wing sometimes.
CB: Too long gear ratios; individual gears or final drive or drop gear.
SBDT: The 6th gear ratio is too long. Reduce this so the RPM peaks in 6th gear at the end of the longest straight at the track, then evenly space the other ratios to suit..

What is the relation of tyre outer/centre/inner temperatures? What should I try to achieve for best grip and wear?
HR: No more than 10 degrees difference.
CB: The camber setting is the main factor governing tyre temperature spread; the temperature spread should not be more than 10-15 degrees different.
SBDT: Tyre temperature should always be balanced across the tyre for optimum grip and wear. To balance the outer and inner temperatures, adjust camber. To balance the centre temperature, adjust tyre pressure.

What do “hard and soft suspension settings” mean? Why are they called that and how does it affect the car?
HR: Hard setting should be used on quick and very smooth tracks; soft should be used on narrow and bumpy tracks.
CB: Hard means stiff springs and/or stiff damper settings. Soft means soft springs and/or soft damper settings. Stiff suspension settings provide less mechanical grip but provide more stable aerodynamics and better driveability.
SBDT: A soft spring will give the chassis a more sloppy feel but be more predictable in most circumstances. The only reason to really use a stiffer spring is to stop the car from bottoming out on larger bumps or to speed up the response of the chassis from driver input.

My tyres are gone after 2 laps, how can I make them last longer?
HR: Check the tyre temperature. It could be that you have too much air pressure. Other possible tweaks would be making the fast bump softer, and using a harder tyre compound.
CB: Harder tyre compound, softer springs.
SBDT: A combination of events could be the cause of this. Firstly, a really stiff chassis would cause excessive wear on the tyres, so using softer suspension settings would be kinder to the tyres. Secondly, over driving the car could contribute to tyre wear. Lastly, having the wrong tyre compound selected would also contribute to excessive tyre wear.
Tyres need to be kept within the specified operating temperatures for optimum wear and grip.

I made changes to some settings, how do I know if they work or not?
CB: Compare laptime, driver comment and recorded data (runs to be under comparable conditions.)
SBDT: Change one setting at a time, then test for at least 3 – 5 laps to learn the effect on your car before making the next change.

How do I know how much fuel I have to put in the car for the race?
CB: Calculate lap consumption out of the fuel used in the practise sessions. Lap consumption x number of race laps = required fuel.
SBDT: At the main garage screen on the right hand side near the top, the race length in laps is shown. Always add some more laps in the strategy just to be safe, as how the car is driven will also affect the economy of the car.

What are the differences between the Power/Coast differential settings?
CB: The power differential setting gives the differential locking rate when accelerating. The coast differential setting gives the differential locking rate when braking.
SBDT: The power side is the amount, or percentage, that is used to lock the inside and outside tyres together when accelerating, such as when exiting a corner. The Coast side is doing the same, but when you are off of the throttle, such as when entering a corner. The Pre-load is the amount of lock built in before any acceleration/deceleration effects take place, such as in a neutral throttle condition.

My car understeers at low speed, but oversteers at high speed.
HR: Soften the antiroll bar front and more wing in the back.
CB: Try softer front antiroll bar or softer front springs and more rear wing and lower rear ride height.
SBDT: There is more than one possible reason for this, but in general, the lower speed handling is controlled by the springs, sway bars, and the higher speed handling is dominated by the aerodynamics. In this case, stiffen the rear springs or antiroll bars to address the low-speed understeer, and increase the rear wing to combat the high-speed oversteer.

What are the different Aero adjustments and their effects on the car?
HR: You can work with the wing in the back and a smaller or wider rear diffuser. In the front you can adjust the inner wing in the bumper.
CB: Ride height, Rake (difference between front and rear ride height), Wing setting, and size of gurney.
Low ride height = more downforce.
Higher rake - downforce balance moves to the front.
More rear wing - more rear downfore, more drag--> less top speed
Bigger gurney - more rear downforce, more drag--> less top speed.
SBDT: Front Splitter - Adds front downforce. Basically there are only two splitters. One is for high-speed Monza (low drag / less downforce) and the other is for everywhere else. The splitter isn’t used to fine tune the aerodynamic balance but rather sets the basic approach to the aerodynamic setup. High-speed = 1. Normal = 2.
Rear wing - Fine tune your aero balance. There are 12 wing adjustments. With a front splitter setting of (1) use wing settings of 4-7. For a front splitter setting of (2) use wing settings of 9-12.
Ride height - These control the underbody downforce, which is considerable on the GT cars and a lot less on the NGT’s. The ride height and the “pitch” or “rake” of the car (difference between the front and rear ride height) control the amount of downforce. In general, you want the ride height as low as possible, plus a slight forward pitch for maximum effect. To achieve this on-track usually requires the rear ride height to be 20-25mm higher than the front when setting it in the garage. The NGT’s can get away with 15mm difference. Having a “pitch up” condition will cause the car to lose a lot of the underbody downforce, so avoid this. Additionally, if the car comes down and touches the track, the air underneath will “stall” and you’ll abruptly loose all underbody downforce!

When do you alter the fast bump or slow bump rates, and what effect do those have on handling?
HR: The slow bump works more on the whole car’s movement, almost like the rollbars, and the fast bump works more on track-related bumps.
CB: Slow bump setting controls the chassis movements under braking, cornering, and acceleration.
SBDT: Fast Damping Adjustment - You adjust fast bump if the car’s handling is causing problems over bumpy sections of the track or riding the curbs. You want the fast bump setting just soft enough to absorb these undulations, but not so soft as to compromise the length of time the chassis takes to settle over these conditions. If you find the car understeering soften the FRONT fast bump and bring the fast rebound down along with it. If you find the car oversteering over the bumps, then soften the REAR fast bump and rebound. If you find that the whole car just skates to the outside of the corner (neither end first), then soften all four dampers. If the car seems not to notice the bumps at all then stiffen the shocks until a problem is felt, then back off a click or two.
Slow Damping Adjustment - Slow damping is mainly used for affecting the transitional balance of the racecar as it is forced to change direction - or attitude - away from any steady-state condition. This is anything having to do with the driver inputs. Steering, braking, and accelerating. The most common adjustments for slow damping is to cure contradictory handling of the racecar from the entrance to the exit of a corner, such as
when the car understeers on the entrance to a corner, yet oversteers on the exit. The slow bump adjustments will be the main contributors to these handling adjustments. To cure understeer on entrance only soften the front slow bump, or stiffen the rear slow rebound. To cure oversteer on corner entrance stiffen the front bumps, or soften the rear rebounds. To Cure power exit oversteer, soften the rear slow bump, or stiffen the front slow rebound.


Regards: durino69

willfred_TandZproduction
09-05-2015, 06:33
Hi to all new Project C.A.R.S friends.

@willfred great idea to get familiar with car set-ups. looking forward to seeing other videos.

This is from another thread and it helped me a lot with understanding what to look for and how to set up a car. Also note this was from another Sim made by SimBin, but still applies to pCARS. Hope it will be helpful for you guys.

At the end there are some common questions which are answered by couple of FIA GT race car drivers.

Enjoy


BRAKES
Pressure - Adjusts overall force applied on the brakes. At 100%, full force will be applied to the brakes. When the best percentage of brake pressure is applied for a car for a specific circuit, the brakes are less likely to lock up when cornering.
Bias - Adjusts the balance of braking pressure between the front and the rear brakes.
Duct - Increases or decreases the duct to adjust the brake temperature. Too cool or too warm brakes are less efficient, not stopping/slowing the car as quickly.

Radiator Opening - Adjusts the air flow to radiator, which helps cool the engine. Monitors water and oil temperatures. If they are higher than 100c, increase the air flow to the radiator. The larger the opening, the cooler the engine will run, making it safer to run at higher RPMs.

Tyre Temperature and Pressure Readouts (Centre Screen) Detail of tyre temperature and pressure readouts
View the tyre temperatures and pressure for each of the four tyres. For tyres on the left side of the car, the upper numbers represent temperature for the outside, middle, and inside of the tyre. For tyres on the right side of the car, the upper numbers represent temperatures for the inside, middle, and outside of the tyre. The bottom number is the tyre pressure of each tyre as of the last time the car was on the grid/circuit. Tyre temperature and pressure impact how well the car grips the road, which in turn affects how well the car handles. For more detail on this, see the sections on Tyre Pressure and Camber. In Simulation mode, it takes approximately 2-3 laps for the tyre temperature and pressure to equalize for maximum grip and pressure gradients.

Water Readout - Temperature of the car’s water cooling system. Try to keep this temperature under 100C. Air temperature extremes can affect the water cooling system. To adjust water temperature, use a smaller or larger radiator opening.
Oil Readout - Temperature of the car’s oil. Temperature will change during practice and qualifying sessions. Try to keep this under 100C. Oil temperature is tied to the water temperature and its radiator opening. To adjust oil temperature, use a smaller or larger radiator opening.


Tyre Pressure - Adjusts the amount of air pressure in the tyres. Tyre pressure affects car control as well as tyre wear. Each tyre has an optimum amount of pressure at which it yields the most grip. Decreasing or increasing the pressure from this point lessens the grip. Ideally, the optimum pressure is when the centre tyre temperature is the average of the inner + outer tyre
temperatures once the tyre gets up to operating temperature (about 85-95C). This usually takes 2-3 laps. Additionally, the higher the pressure, the stiffer the car will be.


Fast Bump - Controls the rapid upward movement of this suspension corner following bumps and curbs. This Bump is described as “Fast” because the damper is moving up (compressing) in a rapid motion, usually above 100mm/sec (use telemetry). So this adjustment controls how a tyre conforms to the road as it’s negotiating the leading edge-to-peak of a bump or road undulation. If you find the car pushing to the outside of the track in a “skating” fashion over bumps, then soften (lower) this setting. If the car floats and changes direction erratically, then stiffen (higher) this setting. When in doubt, go softer.


Slow Bump - Controls the mild UPWARD movement of this suspension corner caused by a driver input (steering, braking, throttle). This Bump is described as “Slow” because the damper is moving up (compressing) in a slow motion, usually below 70mm/sec damper speed (use telemetry). Used to affect chassis balance while we are transitioning into, and out, of the corners. Decreasing this number will speed up how quickly a corner accepts weight transfer while we are transitioning. Increasing will slow it down.


Fast Rebound - Controls the rapid DOWNWARD movement of this suspension corner following bumps and curbs. This Rebound is described as “Fast” because this damper is moving down (extending) in a rapid motion, usually above 100mm/sec (use telemetry). So this adjustment controls how a tyre conforms to the road as it’s negotiating the peakto- trailing edge of a bump or road undulation. If the fast bump setting has been changed, then it’s usually a good idea to change fast rebound in a similar manner.


Slow Rebound - Controls the mild DOWNWARD movement of this suspension corner caused by a driver input (steering, braking, throttle). This Rebound is described as “Slow” because the damper is moving down (extending) in a slow motion, usually below 70mm/ sec damper speed (use telemetry). Used to affect chassis balance while transitioning into, and out, of the corners. Decreasing this number will speed up how quickly this corner gives up - or “sheds” - weight transfer while we are transitioning. Increasing this setting will slow it down.


Springs - Adjusts the tension of the springs. Less tension (or softer springs) yields better grip but slows response time to driver input. More tension (or stiffer springs) makes the car respond more quickly to driver input, but yields less grip.


Camber - Adjusts the angle of the wheel in relation to the driving surface. Negative camber makes the top of the tyres tilt inward towards the centre of the chassis, and helps give better grip through the corners. Though used less frequently, positive camber means that the wheels tilt outward, which gives some stability in a straight line but less grip when cornering. For road racing cars, only negative camber is used.
Ideal camber can be tuned using tyre temperatures as the guide. The inner tyre temperatures should be about 7-10c hotter than the outer tyre temperatures, slightly less at the
rear. The amount of (negative) camber used will vary, based on the type of suspension and amount of roll resistance (springs and antiroll bars) used in the set-up. The stiffer the roll resistance, the less negative camber needed. The less efficient the suspension, the more negative camber needed.


Caster - Adjust the degree the tyre leans forward or back at the top of the wheel. Caster increases or decreases directional stability. Positive caster provides the directional stability, yet too much positive caster makes steering more difficult. Negative caster requires less steering effort but can cause the car to wander down straights.

Ride Height - Adjusts how high the bottom of the car is off of the ground. The lower the ride height, the tighter the suspension, and the lower the car’s centre of gravity will be. Adjusting the ride height too low can make bumpy tracks tricky because the car is more likely to bottom out.


Splitter - Adjusts the level of downforce applied by the splitter. Adds front-end grip at speed. The higher the number, the more air the front wing deflects, and the more downforce
and drag (slowing top speed). There are only two choices: High-speed (setting of 1) and Normal (setting of 2). At most tracks, using normal (2) is recommended, but at Monza, high speed (1) is recommended.


Wing - Adjusts the level of downforce at the rear of the car, and is the main adjustment for aerodynamic balance. After deciding on a front splitter, use the rear wing to dial-in
the aerodynamic balance. Total amount of adjustment is 10 for NGT cars and 12 for GT cars. For splitter setting “1”, select a wing setting of 4-7. For splitter setting “2”, select a wing setting of 8-12. The greater the rear wing setting, the more aero drag, which slows top speed.

Toe-in (Front and Rear) - Adjusts the degree the front of the wheels angle towards or away from each other. This affects the directional stability and initial corner turn-in. On the front, the preferred set-up is usually a slight amount of toe-out (negative settings), as this helps turn-in.
On the rear, the preferred set-up is usually toe-in (positive settings) as toe-out createsinstability.
Too much toe (positive or negative) can slow the car down with increased rolling drag.
Too much toe-in in either direction causes understeer and tyre wear. As this is not a major setup tweak, the default settings are recommended.

FIA GT race car drivers Henrik Roos and Christophe Bouchut join
SimBin Development Team to share essential sim racing
techniques that give gamers a competitive edge.

When braking after a long straight for a very slow turn, the car locks the wheels/brakes and starts sliding in forward motion.
HR: I would adjust the brakes more to the rear.
CB: Turn the brake bias bar to that end of the car which is not locking; reduce camber, reduce anti drive and/or antilift; softer antiroll bars.
SBDT: Move the brake bias further to the rear or brake earlier.

The car understeers in medium and high speed turns.
HR: . It could be many things but first I would see if lowering the rear wing helps, because it also helps the car reach its top speed.
CB: Reduce front ride height; reduce rear wing
SBDT: Either increase the front splitter setting or reduce the rear wing angle. Further fine tuning could be done with the rake angle of the chassis. This would be facilitated by changes to the rideheight, which ideally should be at least an inch higher at the rear. As with all other settings though, this will affect other aspects of the setup.

The car spins when I start applying the accelerator after passing an apex (presumably
in a flat out zone).
HR: This could result from many different things. Soften the low speed on the rear and follow up on loser antiroll bar rear. WARNING: Could give high speed understeer if over done.
CB: Reduce antisquat, soften rear damper, lower speed bump, increase rear toe in.
SBDT: Try decreasing the differential lock to aid power delivery here. Alternately, try softening the rear slow bump settings on the shocks in combination with more front slow rebound settings and stiffening the front antiroll bar.

The car looses grip/balance on bumpy areas of track.
HR: Your car could have too hard springs, or to much high speed bump.
CB: Softer springs, soften rear damper and high speed bump.
SBDT: Initially, softer springs would be a solution, but with softer springs, the ride height should be increased as well because the suspension travel would be greater as would the likelihood of bottoming out on bad bumps. For example, Donington at the bottom of Craner curves has a bumpy section where if the springs are too soft you need a considerable amount more ride height to compensate. Additionally, some fine tuning with the fast bump and fast rebound to the balance would probably be needed.

Remember: Bump: How quickly the chassis is allowed to move down
Rebound: How quickly the chassis is allowed to move up

What is the difference between different tyre brands and compounds? Why are my hard tyres so cold and why do my soft tyres overheat and wear quickly? What are the optimum tyre temperatures?
HR: The difference in tyre manufacturing is a well-kept secret and changes from year to year. Optimum tyre temp is 80C with no more than 10 degrees difference from inside to outside of tyre.
CB: Different tyre brands have different constructions and different compouds: a soft compound (soft tyre) provides more grip and the tyre surface has to do more deformation work and so becomes hotter; the higher the temperature the more grip and the more wear; optimum temperature is 80-100C.
SBDT: Dunlop:
Most forgiving, heats up quickly, more low-speed grip with higher fall off at high loads.
Needs most camber of the bunch. Softest spring rate. Medium wear. Highest rolling drag.
Peak temperature of 99C.
Michelin:
The most precise tyre. Needs least amount of camber. Heats up relatively quickly (but a bit more slowly than the Dunlops). Features average grip with low fall off at high loads.
Stiffest tyre with highest spring rate. Lowest rolling drag. Best wear. Peak temperature of 99C. Probably the fastest over long runs.
Pirelli: Highest base grip once it gets up to temperature. This is the most sensitive tyre to temperature, so it feels like it takes a bit longer to warm up. Medium rolling drag, medium stiffness spring rate. Worst wear. Peak temperature of 105C.
If you choose the wrong compound for the conditions, the tyre temp guage will tell you that. Optimum temp ranges are 85-105C usually. If you are too far out of this range with a MEDUIM tyre choice, then think about
changing compounds. If the temps seem low (under 75C), switch to a SOFT compound.
If the temps run high (over 110C), use a HARD tyre compound. Allow 4 or 5 laps for the tyres to really get up to their operating temperature.
The soft tyres wear the most quickly even if you have the temperature within range; the mediums less and the hards the least. Keep in mind that softer tyres at 110C aren’t always faster than the next harder compound at 85C.
Soft - To be used in qualifying or in cold conditions. Also some of the rear-heavy cars can use a soft front combined with a harder rear to good effect.
Meduim - The most common choice. Gives the best combination of grip and heat.
Hard - Used when it is very hot out. Also sometimes used on the rear of a heavy car, or when you need maximum life out of your tyre and are willing to sacrifice a little grip.
The optimum tyre temperatures are 85-105C for Dunlops and Michelin, 90-110C for Pirelli’s.

What are toe-in/toe-out settings and how will they physically affect the handling of my car?
HR: Toe-in makes your car a little bit more steady during braking, and toe-out makes it steer into the corner a little better.
CB: Toe-in: Wheels aligned in a way that they are pointing inwards; toe-in generally increases lateral grip - but also increases tyre temperatures and rolling resistance; stabilizes car under braking.
Toe-out: Wheels aligned in a way that they are pointing outwards; front toe-out improves turn in.
SBDT: Having the front wheels toe out slightly can improve turn in response into corners, also can settle the front end down the straights reducing the tendency for the car to wander, Ideally a small amount for example –0.50 would be a good starting point.

What are antiroll bar settings and how will they affect handling of the car?
HR: The setting of the Viper is hard in the front and medium in the back.
CB: Antiroll bars influence the dynamic wheel loads. Different settings provide different wheel load distributions and so different handling characteristics. Basically, stiffer front antiroll bar gives more understeer and stiffer rear antiroll bar gives more oversteer and vice versa.
SBDT: Stiff antiroll bars give the chassis a more rigid, direct feel and promote faster tyre degradation compared with softer settings. Softer settings may have a looser feel, but can improve the car’s control by reducing the speed of the weight transfer (how quickly the chassis will respond to inputs from the driver controls), though it may not be precise enough for a fast chicane where fast weight transfer is more desirable. Ideally the front antiroll bar would always be around 70% more than what the rear is set to.

I never reach to use the 6th gear, what’s wrong with my setup?
HR: In this case I would say change the gear ratio. Could also be too much wing sometimes.
CB: Too long gear ratios; individual gears or final drive or drop gear.
SBDT: The 6th gear ratio is too long. Reduce this so the RPM peaks in 6th gear at the end of the longest straight at the track, then evenly space the other ratios to suit..

What is the relation of tyre outer/centre/inner temperatures? What should I try to achieve for best grip and wear?
HR: No more than 10 degrees difference.
CB: The camber setting is the main factor governing tyre temperature spread; the temperature spread should not be more than 10-15 degrees different.
SBDT: Tyre temperature should always be balanced across the tyre for optimum grip and wear. To balance the outer and inner temperatures, adjust camber. To balance the centre temperature, adjust tyre pressure.

What do “hard and soft suspension settings” mean? Why are they called that and how does it affect the car?
HR: Hard setting should be used on quick and very smooth tracks; soft should be used on narrow and bumpy tracks.
CB: Hard means stiff springs and/or stiff damper settings. Soft means soft springs and/or soft damper settings. Stiff suspension settings provide less mechanical grip but provide more stable aerodynamics and better driveability.
SBDT: A soft spring will give the chassis a more sloppy feel but be more predictable in most circumstances. The only reason to really use a stiffer spring is to stop the car from bottoming out on larger bumps or to speed up the response of the chassis from driver input.

My tyres are gone after 2 laps, how can I make them last longer?
HR: Check the tyre temperature. It could be that you have too much air pressure. Other possible tweaks would be making the fast bump softer, and using a harder tyre compound.
CB: Harder tyre compound, softer springs.
SBDT: A combination of events could be the cause of this. Firstly, a really stiff chassis would cause excessive wear on the tyres, so using softer suspension settings would be kinder to the tyres. Secondly, over driving the car could contribute to tyre wear. Lastly, having the wrong tyre compound selected would also contribute to excessive tyre wear.
Tyres need to be kept within the specified operating temperatures for optimum wear and grip.

I made changes to some settings, how do I know if they work or not?
CB: Compare laptime, driver comment and recorded data (runs to be under comparable conditions.)
SBDT: Change one setting at a time, then test for at least 3 – 5 laps to learn the effect on your car before making the next change.

How do I know how much fuel I have to put in the car for the race?
CB: Calculate lap consumption out of the fuel used in the practise sessions. Lap consumption x number of race laps = required fuel.
SBDT: At the main garage screen on the right hand side near the top, the race length in laps is shown. Always add some more laps in the strategy just to be safe, as how the car is driven will also affect the economy of the car.

What are the differences between the Power/Coast differential settings?
CB: The power differential setting gives the differential locking rate when accelerating. The coast differential setting gives the differential locking rate when braking.
SBDT: The power side is the amount, or percentage, that is used to lock the inside and outside tyres together when accelerating, such as when exiting a corner. The Coast side is doing the same, but when you are off of the throttle, such as when entering a corner. The Pre-load is the amount of lock built in before any acceleration/deceleration effects take place, such as in a neutral throttle condition.

My car understeers at low speed, but oversteers at high speed.
HR: Soften the antiroll bar front and more wing in the back.
CB: Try softer front antiroll bar or softer front springs and more rear wing and lower rear ride height.
SBDT: There is more than one possible reason for this, but in general, the lower speed handling is controlled by the springs, sway bars, and the higher speed handling is dominated by the aerodynamics. In this case, stiffen the rear springs or antiroll bars to address the low-speed understeer, and increase the rear wing to combat the high-speed oversteer.

What are the different Aero adjustments and their effects on the car?
HR: You can work with the wing in the back and a smaller or wider rear diffuser. In the front you can adjust the inner wing in the bumper.
CB: Ride height, Rake (difference between front and rear ride height), Wing setting, and size of gurney.
Low ride height = more downforce.
Higher rake - downforce balance moves to the front.
More rear wing - more rear downfore, more drag--> less top speed
Bigger gurney - more rear downforce, more drag--> less top speed.
SBDT: Front Splitter - Adds front downforce. Basically there are only two splitters. One is for high-speed Monza (low drag / less downforce) and the other is for everywhere else. The splitter isn’t used to fine tune the aerodynamic balance but rather sets the basic approach to the aerodynamic setup. High-speed = 1. Normal = 2.
Rear wing - Fine tune your aero balance. There are 12 wing adjustments. With a front splitter setting of (1) use wing settings of 4-7. For a front splitter setting of (2) use wing settings of 9-12.
Ride height - These control the underbody downforce, which is considerable on the GT cars and a lot less on the NGT’s. The ride height and the “pitch” or “rake” of the car (difference between the front and rear ride height) control the amount of downforce. In general, you want the ride height as low as possible, plus a slight forward pitch for maximum effect. To achieve this on-track usually requires the rear ride height to be 20-25mm higher than the front when setting it in the garage. The NGT’s can get away with 15mm difference. Having a “pitch up” condition will cause the car to lose a lot of the underbody downforce, so avoid this. Additionally, if the car comes down and touches the track, the air underneath will “stall” and you’ll abruptly loose all underbody downforce!

When do you alter the fast bump or slow bump rates, and what effect do those have on handling?
HR: The slow bump works more on the whole car’s movement, almost like the rollbars, and the fast bump works more on track-related bumps.
CB: Slow bump setting controls the chassis movements under braking, cornering, and acceleration.
SBDT: Fast Damping Adjustment - You adjust fast bump if the car’s handling is causing problems over bumpy sections of the track or riding the curbs. You want the fast bump setting just soft enough to absorb these undulations, but not so soft as to compromise the length of time the chassis takes to settle over these conditions. If you find the car understeering soften the FRONT fast bump and bring the fast rebound down along with it. If you find the car oversteering over the bumps, then soften the REAR fast bump and rebound. If you find that the whole car just skates to the outside of the corner (neither end first), then soften all four dampers. If the car seems not to notice the bumps at all then stiffen the shocks until a problem is felt, then back off a click or two.
Slow Damping Adjustment - Slow damping is mainly used for affecting the transitional balance of the racecar as it is forced to change direction - or attitude - away from any steady-state condition. This is anything having to do with the driver inputs. Steering, braking, and accelerating. The most common adjustments for slow damping is to cure contradictory handling of the racecar from the entrance to the exit of a corner, such as
when the car understeers on the entrance to a corner, yet oversteers on the exit. The slow bump adjustments will be the main contributors to these handling adjustments. To cure understeer on entrance only soften the front slow bump, or stiffen the rear slow rebound. To cure oversteer on corner entrance stiffen the front bumps, or soften the rear rebounds. To Cure power exit oversteer, soften the rear slow bump, or stiffen the front slow rebound.


Regards: durino69
We have got videos covering all the basic setup components currently. However at the moment I can't post more that one video per a post so we just looking into that . But if you follow the link through the video to YouTube you will find the others.

Camdaz
09-05-2015, 21:55
@Willfred, I'm not bad at setting up cars but found your video helpful, especially how to spend your time in the practice sessions. I will definitely be viewing your other video.

Vilonosec
10-05-2015, 07:55
Video is nice, but text version is better because when you start learning to tune you need to look at the settings all the time and see what they affect and how to use them. In video it's nearly impossible or you got to rewind it back and forth looking for particular part.

vinland
10-05-2015, 09:44
Thanks for the video and all the work. I really don't understand why there is no information in the game. You can adjust everything but nobody in the game teaches you the most simple things.

For casuals, it's hard to understand: why?

willfred_TandZproduction
10-05-2015, 16:29
here's the final few parts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duitTiGdfL0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bgTNx3RRzk

Hodgy
11-05-2015, 06:04
Thanks very much for this..

Sproket
11-05-2015, 06:16
Thanks for the very helpful tips.
I've noticed there is no setup option in Time Trial and the few online races I have taken part in.
Does the setup I've put on and saved in my garage carry over to these events?

The1Dijk
11-05-2015, 07:39
Thanks for the very helpful tips.
I've noticed there is no setup option in Time Trial and the few online races I have taken part in.
Does the setup I've put on and saved in my garage carry over to these events?

No, time trial uses fixed setups to make sure everybody races under the same conditions. In solo and career you can setup all you want. Haven't tried online yet, but it's probably a server setting if setups are fixed.

Edit: Thanks for the great guide guys! Very well put together.

Olijke Poffer
11-05-2015, 07:50
WoW thanks for Al the effort. Very useful.

willfred_TandZproduction
11-05-2015, 09:37
WoW thanks for Al the effort. Very useful.

part 3a should be out tonight or tomorrow

Blackvault
11-05-2015, 18:59
I've stickied this thread. Good work Willfred.

Pete

Aldo Zampatti
11-05-2015, 19:34
Impressive posting indeed.

willfred_TandZproduction
11-05-2015, 20:41
Part 3a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxT5t6XpjrU

Aldo Zampatti
11-05-2015, 21:02
Wilfred, two things:

1) Once again, awesome job!
2) Can you edit the first post and keep it updated there?

cheers!

g33k hack3rs
11-05-2015, 22:11
Thanks for sharing all the videos. Seems very helpful to somebody like me that is clueless about tuning. My head starts spinning just thinking about all the options. Time to get serious and dive into the meat of tuning and handling.

AP200
12-05-2015, 01:51
Thanks for this Wilfred, would you be able post some guidelines as to what order you should take when tuning your car? For example, I start with aero/DF, then ride height, then spring rates, then alignment, then sway bars, and then differential. It works alright for me in that order but I'm wondering if there is a better/more efficient way to go about the order...

mbr72
12-05-2015, 11:41
Good to hear! I was not sure what kind of setup is used for time trials. Another of the countless advantages compared to Forza...

FA RACING 01
12-05-2015, 11:56
No, time trial uses fixed setups to make sure everybody races under the same conditions. In solo and career you can setup all you want. Haven't tried online yet, but it's probably a server setting if setups are fixed.

Edit: Thanks for the great guide guys! Very well put together.

I don't think this is correct, but stand to be corrected too. If I tune my car in my garage, save the setup for a specific circuit and then go drive T/Trials in that car on that circuit, I'm quite sure that that saved setup will be applied. Guidance on this from more experienced will be appreciated. AND thanks.

Mojo66
12-05-2015, 12:54
I don't think this is correct

I don't think either. Simplest way is to change gearing, you'll instantly notice that TT does use your current setup.

Teruk0801
12-05-2015, 13:02
Thanks for the good explanation, how to make a Good Setup.

EDIT:
Will Post my setup Problems in the Right Area, to keep this Thread from it!

menaceuk
12-05-2015, 13:12
Just noticed this thread, awesome.

Thanks to the OP and to all who have contributed info on tuning. It is much appreciated.

FA RACING 01
12-05-2015, 13:15
I have a Problem with my Setups. I can see the Setup in the Garage and it is correct.
But if i start a Raceday (Career) and go there in the Garage, it is a completly different Setup. With this Setup my cars only drive 135 km/h. If i restore defaults now in the Garage (Racedayevent) i get another Setup, but not the Setup i made. Think that is the Gamedefault Setup for the Car. I can change it now and save it, go on Tarck and drive as Example the Training. If i switch now to Quali. I get the broken setup back and must restore defaults again and do again all changes. But i never get the Setup i saved in the Garage(Menu not Raceday), i saved the Setups there for all Tracks.

Somone know what i can do?

Here is what Eric Bergeret [WMD member] answered on a similar question in another thread -

sometime i don't get my setup back too:
hope this help, enter setup, back, re- enter setup, now everything should be ok. "first thing you notice when is wrong is the tyre preasure"
that method work for me, if you do a pit stop renember to do a pit strategy and also wait the engineer call or call the pit yourself, whitout calling them i get wrong fuel or setup* sometime "or is default pit stop, anyway it's not the good one

Hope it helps mate.

willfred_TandZproduction
12-05-2015, 17:30
Wilfred, two things:

1) Once again, awesome job!
2) Can you edit the first post and keep it updated there?

cheers!
1) Thank You everyone for the positive feedback, once we finsih part 3 we then move onto do case studies to demonstrate how to setup cars for different tracks. im also currently planning a few other series to do tuning as well.
2) Hi i spoke with Remco Van Dijk and unfortunately there's a cap on the max amount of videos so i will have to post the video further down and link them there as the video account will far exceed the cap.
unless you can some how allow me to insert some placeholder posts between the OP and the second post. I haven't encountered this problem on wmd when i post them there under willfred-1. However i haven't tried to collate them over there.

Dave215
13-05-2015, 08:40
Very nice guide !!

Thanks

CODsucksROD
13-05-2015, 20:57
Hi to all new Project C.A.R.S friends.

@willfred great idea to get familiar with car set-ups. looking forward to seeing other videos.

This is from another thread and it helped me a lot with understanding what to look for and how to set up a car. Also note this was from another Sim made by SimBin, but still applies to pCARS. Hope it will be helpful for you guys.

At the end there are some common questions which are answered by couple of FIA GT race car drivers.

Enjoy


BRAKES
Pressure - Adjusts overall force applied on the brakes. At 100%, full force will be applied to the brakes. When the best percentage of brake pressure is applied for a car for a specific circuit, the brakes are less likely to lock up when cornering.
Bias - Adjusts the balance of braking pressure between the front and the rear brakes.
Duct - Increases or decreases the duct to adjust the brake temperature. Too cool or too warm brakes are less efficient, not stopping/slowing the car as quickly.

Radiator Opening - Adjusts the air flow to radiator, which helps cool the engine. Monitors water and oil temperatures. If they are higher than 100c, increase the air flow to the radiator. The larger the opening, the cooler the engine will run, making it safer to run at higher RPMs.

Tyre Temperature and Pressure Readouts (Centre Screen) Detail of tyre temperature and pressure readouts
View the tyre temperatures and pressure for each of the four tyres. For tyres on the left side of the car, the upper numbers represent temperature for the outside, middle, and inside of the tyre. For tyres on the right side of the car, the upper numbers represent temperatures for the inside, middle, and outside of the tyre. The bottom number is the tyre pressure of each tyre as of the last time the car was on the grid/circuit. Tyre temperature and pressure impact how well the car grips the road, which in turn affects how well the car handles. For more detail on this, see the sections on Tyre Pressure and Camber. In Simulation mode, it takes approximately 2-3 laps for the tyre temperature and pressure to equalize for maximum grip and pressure gradients.

Water Readout - Temperature of the car’s water cooling system. Try to keep this temperature under 100C. Air temperature extremes can affect the water cooling system. To adjust water temperature, use a smaller or larger radiator opening.
Oil Readout - Temperature of the car’s oil. Temperature will change during practice and qualifying sessions. Try to keep this under 100C. Oil temperature is tied to the water temperature and its radiator opening. To adjust oil temperature, use a smaller or larger radiator opening.


Tyre Pressure - Adjusts the amount of air pressure in the tyres. Tyre pressure affects car control as well as tyre wear. Each tyre has an optimum amount of pressure at which it yields the most grip. Decreasing or increasing the pressure from this point lessens the grip. Ideally, the optimum pressure is when the centre tyre temperature is the average of the inner + outer tyre
temperatures once the tyre gets up to operating temperature (about 85-95C). This usually takes 2-3 laps. Additionally, the higher the pressure, the stiffer the car will be.


Fast Bump - Controls the rapid upward movement of this suspension corner following bumps and curbs. This Bump is described as “Fast” because the damper is moving up (compressing) in a rapid motion, usually above 100mm/sec (use telemetry). So this adjustment controls how a tyre conforms to the road as it’s negotiating the leading edge-to-peak of a bump or road undulation. If you find the car pushing to the outside of the track in a “skating” fashion over bumps, then soften (lower) this setting. If the car floats and changes direction erratically, then stiffen (higher) this setting. When in doubt, go softer.


Slow Bump - Controls the mild UPWARD movement of this suspension corner caused by a driver input (steering, braking, throttle). This Bump is described as “Slow” because the damper is moving up (compressing) in a slow motion, usually below 70mm/sec damper speed (use telemetry). Used to affect chassis balance while we are transitioning into, and out, of the corners. Decreasing this number will speed up how quickly a corner accepts weight transfer while we are transitioning. Increasing will slow it down.


Fast Rebound - Controls the rapid DOWNWARD movement of this suspension corner following bumps and curbs. This Rebound is described as “Fast” because this damper is moving down (extending) in a rapid motion, usually above 100mm/sec (use telemetry). So this adjustment controls how a tyre conforms to the road as it’s negotiating the peakto- trailing edge of a bump or road undulation. If the fast bump setting has been changed, then it’s usually a good idea to change fast rebound in a similar manner.


Slow Rebound - Controls the mild DOWNWARD movement of this suspension corner caused by a driver input (steering, braking, throttle). This Rebound is described as “Slow” because the damper is moving down (extending) in a slow motion, usually below 70mm/ sec damper speed (use telemetry). Used to affect chassis balance while transitioning into, and out, of the corners. Decreasing this number will speed up how quickly this corner gives up - or “sheds” - weight transfer while we are transitioning. Increasing this setting will slow it down.


Springs - Adjusts the tension of the springs. Less tension (or softer springs) yields better grip but slows response time to driver input. More tension (or stiffer springs) makes the car respond more quickly to driver input, but yields less grip.


Camber - Adjusts the angle of the wheel in relation to the driving surface. Negative camber makes the top of the tyres tilt inward towards the centre of the chassis, and helps give better grip through the corners. Though used less frequently, positive camber means that the wheels tilt outward, which gives some stability in a straight line but less grip when cornering. For road racing cars, only negative camber is used.
Ideal camber can be tuned using tyre temperatures as the guide. The inner tyre temperatures should be about 7-10c hotter than the outer tyre temperatures, slightly less at the
rear. The amount of (negative) camber used will vary, based on the type of suspension and amount of roll resistance (springs and antiroll bars) used in the set-up. The stiffer the roll resistance, the less negative camber needed. The less efficient the suspension, the more negative camber needed.


Caster - Adjust the degree the tyre leans forward or back at the top of the wheel. Caster increases or decreases directional stability. Positive caster provides the directional stability, yet too much positive caster makes steering more difficult. Negative caster requires less steering effort but can cause the car to wander down straights.

Ride Height - Adjusts how high the bottom of the car is off of the ground. The lower the ride height, the tighter the suspension, and the lower the car’s centre of gravity will be. Adjusting the ride height too low can make bumpy tracks tricky because the car is more likely to bottom out.


Splitter - Adjusts the level of downforce applied by the splitter. Adds front-end grip at speed. The higher the number, the more air the front wing deflects, and the more downforce
and drag (slowing top speed). There are only two choices: High-speed (setting of 1) and Normal (setting of 2). At most tracks, using normal (2) is recommended, but at Monza, high speed (1) is recommended.


Wing - Adjusts the level of downforce at the rear of the car, and is the main adjustment for aerodynamic balance. After deciding on a front splitter, use the rear wing to dial-in
the aerodynamic balance. Total amount of adjustment is 10 for NGT cars and 12 for GT cars. For splitter setting “1”, select a wing setting of 4-7. For splitter setting “2”, select a wing setting of 8-12. The greater the rear wing setting, the more aero drag, which slows top speed.

Toe-in (Front and Rear) - Adjusts the degree the front of the wheels angle towards or away from each other. This affects the directional stability and initial corner turn-in. On the front, the preferred set-up is usually a slight amount of toe-out (negative settings), as this helps turn-in.
On the rear, the preferred set-up is usually toe-in (positive settings) as toe-out createsinstability.
Too much toe (positive or negative) can slow the car down with increased rolling drag.
Too much toe-in in either direction causes understeer and tyre wear. As this is not a major setup tweak, the default settings are recommended.

FIA GT race car drivers Henrik Roos and Christophe Bouchut join
SimBin Development Team to share essential sim racing
techniques that give gamers a competitive edge.

When braking after a long straight for a very slow turn, the car locks the wheels/brakes and starts sliding in forward motion.
HR: I would adjust the brakes more to the rear.
CB: Turn the brake bias bar to that end of the car which is not locking; reduce camber, reduce anti drive and/or antilift; softer antiroll bars.
SBDT: Move the brake bias further to the rear or brake earlier.

The car understeers in medium and high speed turns.
HR: . It could be many things but first I would see if lowering the rear wing helps, because it also helps the car reach its top speed.
CB: Reduce front ride height; reduce rear wing
SBDT: Either increase the front splitter setting or reduce the rear wing angle. Further fine tuning could be done with the rake angle of the chassis. This would be facilitated by changes to the rideheight, which ideally should be at least an inch higher at the rear. As with all other settings though, this will affect other aspects of the setup.

The car spins when I start applying the accelerator after passing an apex (presumably
in a flat out zone).
HR: This could result from many different things. Soften the low speed on the rear and follow up on loser antiroll bar rear. WARNING: Could give high speed understeer if over done.
CB: Reduce antisquat, soften rear damper, lower speed bump, increase rear toe in.
SBDT: Try decreasing the differential lock to aid power delivery here. Alternately, try softening the rear slow bump settings on the shocks in combination with more front slow rebound settings and stiffening the front antiroll bar.

The car looses grip/balance on bumpy areas of track.
HR: Your car could have too hard springs, or to much high speed bump.
CB: Softer springs, soften rear damper and high speed bump.
SBDT: Initially, softer springs would be a solution, but with softer springs, the ride height should be increased as well because the suspension travel would be greater as would the likelihood of bottoming out on bad bumps. For example, Donington at the bottom of Craner curves has a bumpy section where if the springs are too soft you need a considerable amount more ride height to compensate. Additionally, some fine tuning with the fast bump and fast rebound to the balance would probably be needed.

Remember: Bump: How quickly the chassis is allowed to move down
Rebound: How quickly the chassis is allowed to move up

What is the difference between different tyre brands and compounds? Why are my hard tyres so cold and why do my soft tyres overheat and wear quickly? What are the optimum tyre temperatures?
HR: The difference in tyre manufacturing is a well-kept secret and changes from year to year. Optimum tyre temp is 80C with no more than 10 degrees difference from inside to outside of tyre.
CB: Different tyre brands have different constructions and different compouds: a soft compound (soft tyre) provides more grip and the tyre surface has to do more deformation work and so becomes hotter; the higher the temperature the more grip and the more wear; optimum temperature is 80-100C.
SBDT: Dunlop:
Most forgiving, heats up quickly, more low-speed grip with higher fall off at high loads.
Needs most camber of the bunch. Softest spring rate. Medium wear. Highest rolling drag.
Peak temperature of 99C.
Michelin:
The most precise tyre. Needs least amount of camber. Heats up relatively quickly (but a bit more slowly than the Dunlops). Features average grip with low fall off at high loads.
Stiffest tyre with highest spring rate. Lowest rolling drag. Best wear. Peak temperature of 99C. Probably the fastest over long runs.
Pirelli: Highest base grip once it gets up to temperature. This is the most sensitive tyre to temperature, so it feels like it takes a bit longer to warm up. Medium rolling drag, medium stiffness spring rate. Worst wear. Peak temperature of 105C.
If you choose the wrong compound for the conditions, the tyre temp guage will tell you that. Optimum temp ranges are 85-105C usually. If you are too far out of this range with a MEDUIM tyre choice, then think about
changing compounds. If the temps seem low (under 75C), switch to a SOFT compound.
If the temps run high (over 110C), use a HARD tyre compound. Allow 4 or 5 laps for the tyres to really get up to their operating temperature.
The soft tyres wear the most quickly even if you have the temperature within range; the mediums less and the hards the least. Keep in mind that softer tyres at 110C aren’t always faster than the next harder compound at 85C.
Soft - To be used in qualifying or in cold conditions. Also some of the rear-heavy cars can use a soft front combined with a harder rear to good effect.
Meduim - The most common choice. Gives the best combination of grip and heat.
Hard - Used when it is very hot out. Also sometimes used on the rear of a heavy car, or when you need maximum life out of your tyre and are willing to sacrifice a little grip.
The optimum tyre temperatures are 85-105C for Dunlops and Michelin, 90-110C for Pirelli’s.

What are toe-in/toe-out settings and how will they physically affect the handling of my car?
HR: Toe-in makes your car a little bit more steady during braking, and toe-out makes it steer into the corner a little better.
CB: Toe-in: Wheels aligned in a way that they are pointing inwards; toe-in generally increases lateral grip - but also increases tyre temperatures and rolling resistance; stabilizes car under braking.
Toe-out: Wheels aligned in a way that they are pointing outwards; front toe-out improves turn in.
SBDT: Having the front wheels toe out slightly can improve turn in response into corners, also can settle the front end down the straights reducing the tendency for the car to wander, Ideally a small amount for example –0.50 would be a good starting point.

What are antiroll bar settings and how will they affect handling of the car?
HR: The setting of the Viper is hard in the front and medium in the back.
CB: Antiroll bars influence the dynamic wheel loads. Different settings provide different wheel load distributions and so different handling characteristics. Basically, stiffer front antiroll bar gives more understeer and stiffer rear antiroll bar gives more oversteer and vice versa.
SBDT: Stiff antiroll bars give the chassis a more rigid, direct feel and promote faster tyre degradation compared with softer settings. Softer settings may have a looser feel, but can improve the car’s control by reducing the speed of the weight transfer (how quickly the chassis will respond to inputs from the driver controls), though it may not be precise enough for a fast chicane where fast weight transfer is more desirable. Ideally the front antiroll bar would always be around 70% more than what the rear is set to.

I never reach to use the 6th gear, what’s wrong with my setup?
HR: In this case I would say change the gear ratio. Could also be too much wing sometimes.
CB: Too long gear ratios; individual gears or final drive or drop gear.
SBDT: The 6th gear ratio is too long. Reduce this so the RPM peaks in 6th gear at the end of the longest straight at the track, then evenly space the other ratios to suit..

What is the relation of tyre outer/centre/inner temperatures? What should I try to achieve for best grip and wear?
HR: No more than 10 degrees difference.
CB: The camber setting is the main factor governing tyre temperature spread; the temperature spread should not be more than 10-15 degrees different.
SBDT: Tyre temperature should always be balanced across the tyre for optimum grip and wear. To balance the outer and inner temperatures, adjust camber. To balance the centre temperature, adjust tyre pressure.

What do “hard and soft suspension settings” mean? Why are they called that and how does it affect the car?
HR: Hard setting should be used on quick and very smooth tracks; soft should be used on narrow and bumpy tracks.
CB: Hard means stiff springs and/or stiff damper settings. Soft means soft springs and/or soft damper settings. Stiff suspension settings provide less mechanical grip but provide more stable aerodynamics and better driveability.
SBDT: A soft spring will give the chassis a more sloppy feel but be more predictable in most circumstances. The only reason to really use a stiffer spring is to stop the car from bottoming out on larger bumps or to speed up the response of the chassis from driver input.

My tyres are gone after 2 laps, how can I make them last longer?
HR: Check the tyre temperature. It could be that you have too much air pressure. Other possible tweaks would be making the fast bump softer, and using a harder tyre compound.
CB: Harder tyre compound, softer springs.
SBDT: A combination of events could be the cause of this. Firstly, a really stiff chassis would cause excessive wear on the tyres, so using softer suspension settings would be kinder to the tyres. Secondly, over driving the car could contribute to tyre wear. Lastly, having the wrong tyre compound selected would also contribute to excessive tyre wear.
Tyres need to be kept within the specified operating temperatures for optimum wear and grip.

I made changes to some settings, how do I know if they work or not?
CB: Compare laptime, driver comment and recorded data (runs to be under comparable conditions.)
SBDT: Change one setting at a time, then test for at least 3 – 5 laps to learn the effect on your car before making the next change.

How do I know how much fuel I have to put in the car for the race?
CB: Calculate lap consumption out of the fuel used in the practise sessions. Lap consumption x number of race laps = required fuel.
SBDT: At the main garage screen on the right hand side near the top, the race length in laps is shown. Always add some more laps in the strategy just to be safe, as how the car is driven will also affect the economy of the car.

What are the differences between the Power/Coast differential settings?
CB: The power differential setting gives the differential locking rate when accelerating. The coast differential setting gives the differential locking rate when braking.
SBDT: The power side is the amount, or percentage, that is used to lock the inside and outside tyres together when accelerating, such as when exiting a corner. The Coast side is doing the same, but when you are off of the throttle, such as when entering a corner. The Pre-load is the amount of lock built in before any acceleration/deceleration effects take place, such as in a neutral throttle condition.

My car understeers at low speed, but oversteers at high speed.
HR: Soften the antiroll bar front and more wing in the back.
CB: Try softer front antiroll bar or softer front springs and more rear wing and lower rear ride height.
SBDT: There is more than one possible reason for this, but in general, the lower speed handling is controlled by the springs, sway bars, and the higher speed handling is dominated by the aerodynamics. In this case, stiffen the rear springs or antiroll bars to address the low-speed understeer, and increase the rear wing to combat the high-speed oversteer.

What are the different Aero adjustments and their effects on the car?
HR: You can work with the wing in the back and a smaller or wider rear diffuser. In the front you can adjust the inner wing in the bumper.
CB: Ride height, Rake (difference between front and rear ride height), Wing setting, and size of gurney.
Low ride height = more downforce.
Higher rake - downforce balance moves to the front.
More rear wing - more rear downfore, more drag--> less top speed
Bigger gurney - more rear downforce, more drag--> less top speed.
SBDT: Front Splitter - Adds front downforce. Basically there are only two splitters. One is for high-speed Monza (low drag / less downforce) and the other is for everywhere else. The splitter isn’t used to fine tune the aerodynamic balance but rather sets the basic approach to the aerodynamic setup. High-speed = 1. Normal = 2.
Rear wing - Fine tune your aero balance. There are 12 wing adjustments. With a front splitter setting of (1) use wing settings of 4-7. For a front splitter setting of (2) use wing settings of 9-12.
Ride height - These control the underbody downforce, which is considerable on the GT cars and a lot less on the NGT’s. The ride height and the “pitch” or “rake” of the car (difference between the front and rear ride height) control the amount of downforce. In general, you want the ride height as low as possible, plus a slight forward pitch for maximum effect. To achieve this on-track usually requires the rear ride height to be 20-25mm higher than the front when setting it in the garage. The NGT’s can get away with 15mm difference. Having a “pitch up” condition will cause the car to lose a lot of the underbody downforce, so avoid this. Additionally, if the car comes down and touches the track, the air underneath will “stall” and you’ll abruptly loose all underbody downforce!

When do you alter the fast bump or slow bump rates, and what effect do those have on handling?
HR: The slow bump works more on the whole car’s movement, almost like the rollbars, and the fast bump works more on track-related bumps.
CB: Slow bump setting controls the chassis movements under braking, cornering, and acceleration.
SBDT: Fast Damping Adjustment - You adjust fast bump if the car’s handling is causing problems over bumpy sections of the track or riding the curbs. You want the fast bump setting just soft enough to absorb these undulations, but not so soft as to compromise the length of time the chassis takes to settle over these conditions. If you find the car understeering soften the FRONT fast bump and bring the fast rebound down along with it. If you find the car oversteering over the bumps, then soften the REAR fast bump and rebound. If you find that the whole car just skates to the outside of the corner (neither end first), then soften all four dampers. If the car seems not to notice the bumps at all then stiffen the shocks until a problem is felt, then back off a click or two.
Slow Damping Adjustment - Slow damping is mainly used for affecting the transitional balance of the racecar as it is forced to change direction - or attitude - away from any steady-state condition. This is anything having to do with the driver inputs. Steering, braking, and accelerating. The most common adjustments for slow damping is to cure contradictory handling of the racecar from the entrance to the exit of a corner, such as
when the car understeers on the entrance to a corner, yet oversteers on the exit. The slow bump adjustments will be the main contributors to these handling adjustments. To cure understeer on entrance only soften the front slow bump, or stiffen the rear slow rebound. To cure oversteer on corner entrance stiffen the front bumps, or soften the rear rebounds. To Cure power exit oversteer, soften the rear slow bump, or stiffen the front slow rebound.


Regards: durino69

Wow , thanks alot for all the time you put in to typing this , but for XBOX ONE console users that use the controller this is pointless untill it is fully patched. (yes it is worth to say this because we all know we got the BETA release)

Mojo66
13-05-2015, 22:02
Can you please stop quoting 300 lines of text just to add a 2 line response? I mean why do I even need to write something so obvious?

Teruk0801
13-05-2015, 23:24
One Question, i read the Guide and watch the the Guides on Youtube. There it says, lowering preasure of tyres will lower temperature of the Tyres. I tessted it, and if i lower the Preasure of the Tyres, the Temperature of the Tyres goes up and not down.

Dynomight Motorsports
14-05-2015, 00:30
Tyres are a funny thing.. you can't go too low as they will create a lot of heat from being under-inflated and flexing the sidewalls. Over-inflated tyres will over heat by building pressure. There is actually a very small window that you have to find to make the tyres optimum.

Teruk0801
14-05-2015, 01:20
I Dirve 15 Rounds with rear Tyres with a very low Preasure, but the Outside and Inside Tyretemperature has never more then 2-3°C difference. Next Test Max Preasure at the Rear tyres, they are Ice Cold but again no big diffrence between inside and outide.

Tested it with the Hud, for the Temperatures!

Wheelzr
14-05-2015, 19:58
Thanks for these videos. Lots of valuable information, tremendous effort. Very much appreciated.

Would anyone have any idea as to what order tuning should be done? I'd consider drawing it up in a googledoc with relevant links to videos here.

Something like a typical flow chart would make sense to me. Obviosly we can start with gearbox, brake temps, then tire psi/heat. Not sure where to go after that.


Also, is there any way to view telemetry outside of being in the car on a live-lap? I tried to view my telemetry in replays but wasn't able to bring it up. On PS4 in case that matters.


Terrific game. Loving Karts.

morphee7
14-05-2015, 22:37
No, time trial uses fixed setups to make sure everybody races under the same conditions. In solo and career you can setup all you want. Haven't tried online yet, but it's probably a server setting if setups are fixed.

Edit: Thanks for the great guide guys! Very well put together.

the setups carry over to time trial as i have done setups on free practice and they stay on your car for time trial.... well it doeson the xbox one version

morphee7
14-05-2015, 22:38
must admitthoug im finding it really difficult setting up the zonda r on dubai int. circuit i cant stop my tires from overheating

willfred_TandZproduction
15-05-2015, 07:52
Thanks for these videos. Lots of valuable information, tremendous effort. Very much appreciated.

Would anyone have any idea as to what order tuning should be done? I'd consider drawing it up in a googledoc with relevant links to videos here.

Something like a typical flow chart would make sense to me. Obviosly we can start with gearbox, brake temps, then tire psi/heat. Not sure where to go after that.


Also, is there any way to view telemetry outside of being in the car on a live-lap? I tried to view my telemetry in replays but wasn't able to bring it up. On PS4 in case that matters.


Terrific game. Loving Karts.
Hi it depends on how in depth you're going but i would do the following order
springs-> damper-> ride height->castor->camber->toe->damper and anti roll bar fine tuning.
Springs will depend on the track bumpiness and the cars current handling
once you have a setup then you can play with settings such as aero and gearing. Always fiddle with the mechanical grip first as downforce is both a blessing and a curse sometimes. It can often hide problems with chassis setup. so setting up mechanical grip first and then tweaking and adjusting the aero after can help reduce problems occurring without aero.

oh and here's the the much requested damper section.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WU3W4S4u-k

Lamro101
15-05-2015, 08:13
@willfred_TandZproduction, thnx, great job))). I hope to see more of your videos))

g33k hack3rs
15-05-2015, 15:42
Any suggestion for a track to use for a good general setup. What I like to do is experiment at a particular track that I know would give me a good basic setup. I can then go to each track to fine tune but at least I'll know it is driveable at most places. What would your suggestion be for such a generic tuning track? I haven't watched all the videos yet, so sorry if this question is answered there.

Deadzone
16-05-2015, 01:09
Any suggestion for a track to use for a good general setup. What I like to do is experiment at a particular track that I know would give me a good basic setup. I can then go to each track to fine tune but at least I'll know it is driveable at most places. What would your suggestion be for such a generic tuning track? I haven't watched all the videos yet, so sorry if this question is answered there.

Try Watkins Glen Short. It has a good mix of corners to setup with.

Roger Prynne
16-05-2015, 12:46
Here is another good guide....


http://www.gtvault.com/gt5/tuning-guide/

donpost
16-05-2015, 13:17
Hi it depends on how in depth you're going but i would do the following order
springs-> damper-> ride height->castor->camber->toe->damper and anti roll bar fine tuning.
Springs will depend on the track bumpiness and the cars current handling
once you have a setup then you can play with settings such as aero and gearing. Always fiddle with the mechanical grip first as downforce is both a blessing and a curse sometimes. It can often hide problems with chassis setup. so setting up mechanical grip first and then tweaking and adjusting the aero after can help reduce problems occurring without aero.

oh and here's the the much requested damper section.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WU3W4S4u-k

Kudos to you for putting in so much effort for the community :encouragement:

In the video you say that the bump stops are linear. Does this also mean that the longer you set the bump stop, the softer it is?

Also, do you happen to know what the little red block that appears at the top of the suspension scale on the telemetry HUD indicates? Does it mean you've hit the bump stop or something else?

Roger Prynne
16-05-2015, 13:30
Kudos to you for putting in so much effort for the community :encouragement:

In the video you say that the bump stops are linear. Does this also mean that the longer you set the bump stop, the softer it is?

Also, do you happen to know what the little red block that appears at the top of the suspension scale on the telemetry HUD indicates? Does it mean you've hit the bump stop or something else?
Yep you got it.

willfred_TandZproduction
16-05-2015, 15:52
Kudos to you for putting in so much effort for the community :encouragement:

In the video you say that the bump stops are linear. Does this also mean that the longer you set the bump stop, the softer it is?

Also, do you happen to know what the little red block that appears at the top of the suspension scale on the telemetry HUD indicates? Does it mean you've hit the bump stop or something else?

thankyou, i do believe the red block is the bumpstop. in terms of a longer one being softer I dont think thats the case.

Mattias
17-05-2015, 11:29
It would be nice with a final video which shows how you tune a car for a specific track step by step.
So one can see the whole process, how you move the parameters around and why you did it etc.
Maybe call it a summary video or example video.

Love the videos so far though. Still trying to wrap my head around it all.
Sometimes I just make the car worse than it was with the default tuning :)

willfred_TandZproduction
17-05-2015, 13:47
It would be nice with a final video which shows how you tune a car for a specific track step by step.
So one can see the whole process, how you move the parameters around and why you did it etc.
Maybe call it a summary video or example video.

Love the videos so far though. Still trying to wrap my head around it all.
Sometimes I just make the car worse than it was with the default tuning :)

As i've said several times before we will be doing a series case studies for different car track combinations.

willfred_TandZproduction
17-05-2015, 20:10
*Update*
Part C & D now live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNOOAioVmjI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt8rZv8OQ38

Fre.Mo
18-05-2015, 19:34
Thank you for the informations.

Ripgroove
20-05-2015, 17:12
No, time trial uses fixed setups to make sure everybody races under the same conditions. In solo and career you can setup all you want. Haven't tried online yet, but it's probably a server setting if setups are fixed.

Edit: Thanks for the great guide guys! Very well put together.

Not true, setups for TT and community events are applied in the garage before hand.

podda172
23-05-2015, 09:05
I would like to say to the community.

And a big thankyou to WILLFRED for his excellent guides to tuning, can you also give telemetry HUD guide so we know what we are looking at fully?
Now its time to tune

MULTIVITZ
23-05-2015, 10:21
[QUOTE=willfred_TandZproduction;916980]thankyou, i do believe the red block is the bumpstop. in terms of a longer one being softer I dont think thats the case.[QUOTE]

When a car is grinding its underside that can do 5 things and maybe more! Damage the cars components (aero devices, suspension, etc). The noise can be off putting and annoying. Take weight from the tyres, losing the car grip, even changing its direction. Slowing the cars acceleration through dragging. Stalling out the circulatory lamina flow, (afterall it is an upside down wing!) and preventing the pressure differences both of the car's (normal closed wheel design) wings(front and rear) thats needed to generate their best downward force, some times even reversing to an upward force(front end). Wedge is the MOST important aspect of chassis tuning, very rarely it's not! Imho. A body shell has a range of degrees of rake/wedge it can work in that the car designer carefully crafts as the cars being concieved.
Springs are the first thing to look at as they support the weight of the car and to some degree the aero wieght, to find an ideal length bump stop, soffen the ride and hit the bumps and dips to listen for bottoming, increase the bump stop size until you've happy. And of course put the stiffness back into it after you find the ideal lengths of bump, some cars don't have to have them.Just be aware that as you increase the cars load by driving harder, using more speed, increase wing, or have lower tyre PRESSURES, the risk of bottoming can return.
Not much is mentioned about roll centres! Some chassis like roll centres heights be in relation to each other(an understatement to say the least!). After a bottoming event this can cause a car to lose poise, using correctly lengthend bump stops can retain the front to rear roll centre relationship and make it easier for the driver to keep on it, sorry I mean control. Roll centre control can be a real pain with short travel shock setups. These are a few of the invisible aspects of chassis tuning, read a good book or 7 to get a more knowledgable, even then its hard for some to get to grips with it all! Thats why its a black art, thats why it takes a team to develop these works of art:)

MULTIVITZ
23-05-2015, 10:44
Please don't ask for spaces in my long texts as the computers automatically think they know best!

MULTIVITZ
23-05-2015, 10:53
Ok we know what caster does, but WHY and HOW does it do what it does? Give me your answers after your race lol.

willfred_TandZproduction
25-05-2015, 21:31
Ok we know what caster does, but WHY and HOW does it do what it does? Give me your answers after your race lol.

Would you like to see more detail in the videos?
If so its something we can look at. But we've tried to strike a balance between the theory, video length and application.

MULTIVITZ
26-05-2015, 01:52
They will do for now. Everyones loving 'em. If you like nascar I did a tune for the mustang boss, this guy requested a tune for it to go around Bathhurst! I had to see if it was possible. Sorry Ford Fans but the default setup was questionable!! I put the screen shot up of it in a Lotus thread:rolleyes: For it's weight it goes well, loads of adjustment for ovals, theres gonna be some sick races once people get into tuning them. Something for the Ford fans:cool:


I just thought, you could do a video of faulty damper adjustment! Things like hold down, shoot through, tramp, wheel hop, bind, etc and what to look for in the telemetry. If you get time, do a how to adjust shocks to stop the wheels locking when braking hard. You could demonstrate a car with excessive rear rebound, or not enough front bound and use the start of a kerb as a brake marker. Somona has that hairpin towards the finish that looks ideal. Even overlay the images to show how much better the difference is. I got a lovely FQ400 tune that you could use, it's set up for agressive cornering and using downshifting, but the brakes would dial in easy, maybe get some funky paint on it?

willfred_TandZproduction
28-05-2015, 18:04
The final part is now up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD-WjnLyaV8

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 23:52
A great basic guide. When are you going to advanced stuff? Like differentials loading and unloading around corners and how to stabilise a car through throttle inputs. Why agressive driving is necessary and when to be smooth? Theres loads of budding youngsters joining all the time.

willfred_TandZproduction
29-05-2015, 19:03
We have a dedicated video to differentials.

The problem with doing a video on how to stabilise a car and different driving styles is the fact that we cant tell people how to drive. It is often a judgement as to how to drive and how to react, we cant exactly break it down into "if A B and C happens then you should drive aggressively".

Its also hard to describe how a car feels. Unless youve felt it before you would wonder what on earth we are talking about. Take oversteer/understeer, everyones interpretation is different, what oversteers for you may understeer for me.

Its important that people actually practice the game, theres only so much you can gain from watching video tutorials.

MULTIVITZ
30-05-2015, 07:21
Yes, I see what your saying. A guide for damping would help explain understeer and oversteer especially one that showed poor adjustment that gave the strange damper behaviour I mentioned in my ealier posts. You would have to use one of those balanced open wheeler cars so people could see the suspension working, just tighten the dampers a bit to get the ride good, show them driving around with the car leveling smartly, then mal adjust the dampers you want to demonstrate. It would give everone an idea of the conditions that appear with over and under adjustments. If you leave the ARBs soft, that would help. You could pick a bumpy corner to demonstrate it. With that and the brake one, you'll help people stop and turn. I've made a training rig, it goes really well if you practice on it. Its been dialed in for high speed grip with the stability tuned out of it lol.

crowhop
01-06-2015, 01:14
One Question, i read the Guide and watch the the Guides on Youtube. There it says, lowering preasure of tyres will lower temperature of the Tyres. I tessted it, and if i lower the Preasure of the Tyres, the Temperature of the Tyres goes up and not down.
This is exactly my experience as well. I've yet to find a car or circumstance in which lowering the pressure did not increase the temp, even moving it -0.01 will increase heat and +0.01 will decrease it.

Now it could be that I am not making massive changes from the Default. I am only increasing/decreasing pressure to get equal temps in all four tires from the Default.
I'm just beginning the Formula Gulf series. I will test it and report the results.

EDIT:
As tested in Round 1 of the Formula Gulf, lowering temps from the Default -0.10 on all four tires does indeed increase tire temps. Increasing pressure from Default +0.10 decrease tire temps.
Therefore the video 2A at 1:15 needs to be corrected.

Can anyone demonstrate where the video is correct and my testing is incorrect? I've not been able to replicate the + pressure = + temps in either the Clio, Ginetta G40 or Formula Gulf in any circumstance.

MULTIVITZ
01-06-2015, 07:18
I found once you've established a stable tune (means thrashing around endlessly, try big pressure alterations and judge how quickly temp changes, then it will settle once you hit a sweet spot!) with dialled in pressures, the tyres temperature will become more responsive to tracks and pressure. I hope you can persevere with cars that have no prewarming! Closing the brake ducts helps too.:rolleyes:

transfix
01-06-2015, 10:31
Thanks Willfred! Fantastic job. Would love to see some advanced setup vids.

stolkl
01-06-2015, 17:49
This is exactly my experience as well. I've yet to find a car or circumstance in which lowering the pressure did not increase the temp, even moving it -0.01 will increase heat and +0.01 will decrease it.

Now it could be that I am not making massive changes from the Default. I am only increasing/decreasing pressure to get equal temps in all four tires from the Default.
I'm just beginning the Formula Gulf series. I will test it and report the results.

EDIT:
As tested in Round 1 of the Formula Gulf, lowering temps from the Default -0.10 on all four tires does indeed increase tire temps. Increasing pressure from Default +0.10 decrease tire temps.
Therefore the video 2A at 1:15 needs to be corrected.

Can anyone demonstrate where the video is correct and my testing is incorrect? I've not been able to replicate the + pressure = + temps in either the Clio, Ginetta G40 or Formula Gulf in any circumstance.

This is the same behavior for other sims like rFactor 2, Assetto Corsa and Stock Car. After doing a test drive in pCars, I lowered the front tyres pressure, made a couple of laps and the tyre temperatures increased; I did the same for the rear tyres and got the same results. Eventually, I later increased the pressure of the tyres and the temperature decreased.
It makes sense also that decreasing the pressure of the tyre would increase the temperature, as there is less air build inside allowing the heat to build up faster.
Of course, then there is the temperature measurement for the Inside, Middle and Outside of the tyre, which depending on the camber of the it will vary and the overall temperature might be impacted. Unfortunately, we are not able to gather this data from the sim as currently it is not being given from the game.

MABlosfeld
03-06-2015, 15:12
Yesterday I participated in a race with
ABS = on
Stability Control = off
Traction Control = on
Tire wear = REAL
Number of pilots = 20

After 3 laps was impossible to conduct because my car ran out of grip
I noticed that the tires were going from green to blue constantly
I checked the telemetry and temperatures were below 85 ° C
I found it very strange because it never happened
At first I thought it was the amount of rubber on the track
then I thought it had to do with the connected TRACTION CONTROL

note: I was not using TRACTION CONTROL but was allowed to use

Apoth
04-06-2015, 20:10
What type of car were you using?

MABlosfeld
05-06-2015, 00:26
What type of car were you using?

GT3 BMW Z4

Fre.Mo
05-06-2015, 08:44
I didn t understand the difference between Traction and Stability controls. Could someone explain it to me?

Apoth
05-06-2015, 16:23
I didn t understand the difference between Traction and Stability controls. Could someone explain it to me?

I haven't messed with it in PCars, but in Forza (and I suspect here as well), Traction Control is a system designed to stop wheel spin when you're accelerating. Stability control is designed to stop you from losing traction and spinning when cornering or not under acceleration. I believe traction control works by cutting power to the wheel when spin is detected while stability control modulates brakes to stop you from losing the car around corners.

Blvd69
07-06-2015, 20:21
Blvd69 here baby....Ready...Able...Stable....And ...Ready to Overhaul all my cars.
Thanks Man for your Guides Help...You Rock on and Ride Free!

willfred_TandZproduction
10-06-2015, 14:17
Sorry i haven't updated the thread for a while here's part 3f and the start of the case studies.
3F

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToNu4WLILvE
Case study intro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q690sKiBSRc
Formula rookie case study part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6lERrBCboc

transfix
21-06-2015, 01:03
How are you accessing the Tuning menu during practice. I can't see that option anywhere.

MULTIVITZ
21-06-2015, 22:29
Pit box from pause menu:rolleyes:

PureMalt77
24-06-2015, 12:51
Please do not bash my head, this is supposedly a constructive critic!!! :angel:

First of all, a big thanks and congratulations for all the efforts in putting this up together. I'm definitely learning a lot...

The only critic on my side is that I find the videos sometimes "vague". Just finished watching the F-Rookie Case Studies, and I think they are a bit too long in contrast to how much real information is given.

Maybe for future videos, it would be nice if they are more objective. They don't need to be long, but should list with more details the specific adjustments in comparison to what is happening with the car. For instance...

Sequence: what exactly to tune first? I know there are settings that can be changed without affecting the car balance, others not, so they might relate with each other. Just saying "increase this setting if the car understeer" is for me - total begginer with car setup - quite complicated, if 5 or 6 other settings can also affect the same behavior. Part of this is covered in the tuning guides, but I believe the "Case Study" is the best place to show it.

Progression: show a lap with a "standard setting", comment what the problems are. Then show the setting being modified, and after that the new lap showing the improvement. Does not even need to be entire laps, but the track section which got improved by the adjustment.

Ready-Made Recipes: I know it is impossible to have any sort of recipe to follow in car setup, but some general guidance to specific settings could be introduced. Maybe short recipes depending on car type / track type? Openwheel are very different than GT or Road cars... Monaco and Monza/Le Mans are probably in the opposites in relation to tracks. Maybe a suggestion like: car category vs track (slow/medium/fast).

Anyway, I'm just throwing ideas...

GrimeyDog
24-06-2015, 16:17
JMO... I Have Not yet found on any Racing Game that Tweeking Cars Set up makes a Huge Difference to me while using a Wheel... Maybe + or - the Aero... Most of the time as long as the Wheel Physics are good i can get Really Good Consistant lap times with untuned cars. Top 500 times easily.

PureMalt77
24-06-2015, 16:38
JMO... I Have Not yet found on any Racing Game that Tweeking Cars Set up makes a Huge Difference to me while using a Wheel... Maybe + or - the Aero... Most of the time as long as the Wheel Physics are good i can get Really Good Consistant lap times with untuned cars. Top 500 times easily.

Sure, but is exactly the rest of the setup that can shave off the 3 seconds deciding being in the top 500 or top 10 ;)
Especially on road cars which do not profit from aero or downforce...

GrimeyDog
24-06-2015, 18:34
Sure, but is exactly the rest of the setup that can shave off the 3 seconds deciding being in the top 500 or top 10 ;)
Especially on road cars which do not profit from aero or downforce...

Hmmm Maybe....i Have a Few Top 100 times in Pcars also on a few of my Fav tracks... For Now in just gonna wait until the Game updates are done and if Need be Tune a Few Cars to get back in the Top 100 on my Fav tracks... Is there a place on the Web where we can View the total Leader boards??? I wonder How Many people are on the Boards.

willfred_TandZproduction
25-06-2015, 14:04
Please do not bash my head, this is supposedly a constructive critic!!! :angel:

First of all, a big thanks and congratulations for all the efforts in putting this up together. I'm definitely learning a lot...

The only critic on my side is that I find the videos sometimes "vague". Just finished watching the F-Rookie Case Studies, and I think they are a bit too long in contrast to how much real information is given.

Maybe for future videos, it would be nice if they are more objective. They don't need to be long, but should list with more details the specific adjustments in comparison to what is happening with the car. For instance...

Sequence: what exactly to tune first? I know there are settings that can be changed without affecting the car balance, others not, so they might relate with each other. Just saying "increase this setting if the car understeer" is for me - total begginer with car setup - quite complicated, if 5 or 6 other settings can also affect the same behavior. Part of this is covered in the tuning guides, but I believe the "Case Study" is the best place to show it.

Progression: show a lap with a "standard setting", comment what the problems are. Then show the setting being modified, and after that the new lap showing the improvement. Does not even need to be entire laps, but the track section which got improved by the adjustment.

Ready-Made Recipes: I know it is impossible to have any sort of recipe to follow in car setup, but some general guidance to specific settings could be introduced. Maybe short recipes depending on car type / track type? Openwheel are very different than GT or Road cars... Monaco and Monza/Le Mans are probably in the opposites in relation to tracks. Maybe a suggestion like: car category vs track (slow/medium/fast).

Anyway, I'm just throwing ideas...
Hi thank you for the feedback I'm currently doing a case study on a formula rookie and I've got a bently gt3 lined up next. Currently it takes a while as I need to edit a few hours of footage Down Into a manageable chunk.

In response to the case studies length it's difficult for us as if we make it longer people will stop watching and if we make it shorter people will complain. So I try to keep it around 8-10 minutes.
But thank you for the responses.

HewisLamilton6
25-06-2015, 16:35
Please do not bash my head, this is supposedly a constructive critic!!! :angel:

First of all, a big thanks and congratulations for all the efforts in putting this up together. I'm definitely learning a lot...

The only critic on my side is that I find the videos sometimes "vague". Just finished watching the F-Rookie Case Studies, and I think they are a bit too long in contrast to how much real information is given.

Maybe for future videos, it would be nice if they are more objective. They don't need to be long, but should list with more details the specific adjustments in comparison to what is happening with the car. For instance...

Sequence: what exactly to tune first? I know there are settings that can be changed without affecting the car balance, others not, so they might relate with each other. Just saying "increase this setting if the car understeer" is for me - total begginer with car setup - quite complicated, if 5 or 6 other settings can also affect the same behavior. Part of this is covered in the tuning guides, but I believe the "Case Study" is the best place to show it.

Progression: show a lap with a "standard setting", comment what the problems are. Then show the setting being modified, and after that the new lap showing the improvement. Does not even need to be entire laps, but the track section which got improved by the adjustment.

Ready-Made Recipes: I know it is impossible to have any sort of recipe to follow in car setup, but some general guidance to specific settings could be introduced. Maybe short recipes depending on car type / track type? Openwheel are very different than GT or Road cars... Monaco and Monza/Le Mans are probably in the opposites in relation to tracks. Maybe a suggestion like: car category vs track (slow/medium/fast).

Anyway, I'm just throwing ideas...

I see your points, but i think it was mentioned by @ Multivitz that setting up a car is kinda a black art.

EG, if these guys were to explain by changing A it affects B,C & D these videos would go on for hours and hours.

If you watch the F Rookie video, they start with sorting ride hight & springs i think first then move onto camber.

I dont think the videos are vague at all, i just think there is so much info how do you fit it all into 10 mins.

One of the things i learned from this, was driving for X laps with telemetry on then save video via share button and watch back to see whats happing.

Keep up the good work @ willfred_TandZproduction

PureMalt77
25-06-2015, 19:40
I see your points, but i think it was mentioned by @ Multivitz that setting up a car is kinda a black art.

EG, if these guys were to explain by changing A it affects B,C & D these videos would go on for hours and hours.

If you watch the F Rookie video, they start with sorting ride hight & springs i think first then move onto camber.

I dont think the videos are vague at all, i just think there is so much info how do you fit it all into 10 mins.

One of the things i learned from this, was driving for X laps with telemetry on then save video via share button and watch back to see whats happing.

Keep up the good work @ willfred_TandZproduction

Yeah, I know I probably want too much!!!
But you said something interesting: in the F-Rookie vids, they start with Ride height & springs. When you watch the guide videos, it starts with Brakes and Tyres... this is why I wrote about sequence.

I guess, as you and they said, is really go to the track and experiment, so I quote as well: nice job overall @ willfred_TandZproduction

Fre.Mo
26-06-2015, 12:52
Please do not bash my head, this is supposedly a constructive critic!!! :angel:

First of all, a big thanks and congratulations for all the efforts in putting this up together. I'm definitely learning a lot...

The only critic on my side is that I find the videos sometimes "vague". Just finished watching the F-Rookie Case Studies, and I think they are a bit too long in contrast to how much real information is given.

Maybe for future videos, it would be nice if they are more objective. They don't need to be long, but should list with more details the specific adjustments in comparison to what is happening with the car. For instance...

Sequence: what exactly to tune first? I know there are settings that can be changed without affecting the car balance, others not, so they might relate with each other. Just saying "increase this setting if the car understeer" is for me - total begginer with car setup - quite complicated, if 5 or 6 other settings can also affect the same behavior. Part of this is covered in the tuning guides, but I believe the "Case Study" is the best place to show it.

Progression: show a lap with a "standard setting", comment what the problems are. Then show the setting being modified, and after that the new lap showing the improvement. Does not even need to be entire laps, but the track section which got improved by the adjustment.

Ready-Made Recipes: I know it is impossible to have any sort of recipe to follow in car setup, but some general guidance to specific settings could be introduced. Maybe short recipes depending on car type / track type? Openwheel are very different than GT or Road cars... Monaco and Monza/Le Mans are probably in the opposites in relation to tracks. Maybe a suggestion like: car category vs track (slow/medium/fast).

Anyway, I'm just throwing ideas...

I have the same questions.
For instance, do we have to change suspension setting before adjusting slow/fast bumps and rebounds?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
26-06-2015, 15:29
Sorry that I've not yet read through the thread completely, seems like there's plenty of interesting stuff here. I'd like to pitch in a little bit.

I started Project CARS with the attitude I had used before in all racing sims: I will not change setups to suit my driving, I will change my driving to suit the setups. This has been something I've enjoyed doing for nearly two decades already, and has led to me improving my driving skills and adaptability by forcing me to learn how to manipulate the controls to bend wayward cars to my will. I did know what most of the settings did quite well, on a general level, but I wasn't really interested in manipulating the setups or knowing how the car is set up (that is, "whether or not there was any natural bias to the setup").

However at some point during development I got to thinking "Maybe I should actually try to figure out what the setup should be like, mathematically, and if it's actually behaving like that if I want to really test things out". This led me on a path of discovery that started from simple mathematical spring comparisons, moving through suspension frequency analysis, taking suspension oddities better into account (like differing motion ratios for roll and heave in solid rear axle cars, the massive effect of motion ratios and damper digression knee speeds), and upwards and onwards to damper calculations of various degrees. I learned a lot from talking things out with the devs, as well as reading up on various online sources. I started noticing some oddities in the default setups of some cars (many of which turned out to be bugs or typos), and almost always if I felt the car had a behavioral quirk I could easily find the cause via a quick suspension analysis. I started trying to find the OEM specs for as many real road cars (and racing cars, for example the the Radicals and the 12C GT3 have great manuals online with detailed info about springs, dampers, diff settings and whatnot that you can find with some Google-Fu) and seeing how they worked in-game. Almost always they worked fantastically, and I particularly liked trying to make OEM setups for the road cars (the default pCARS road car setups tend to be slightly track tuned, something a track day enthusiast might do to their car), and many people told me that the setups I came up with via OEM data and calculating various things made the cars handle more believably for a stock condition road car.

As I learned more about this stuff I started building up my pCARS Setup Calculator spreadsheet, bit by bit, increasing in complexity and usability as time went on. Here are some videos I recorded with me explaining things about the calculator, in various stages of development (none are up to my current internal version). Long, meandering and decidedly non-scripted, with lots of umming and aahing (EDIT: also worth a mention is that these are from back when the game was still in active development, so the settings shown might behave differently in-game now, due to changes in various attributes for the cars):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S5kSrR3oM4
(Ignore the Honda NSX-R in the car list, that is not anything hidden or worked on during pCARS development, it was just a test where I added a car from rFactor to the calculator to see if it worked out as nicely. :))


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ_t2cJcknM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Asj0KtyNg

I've learned many things since posting those videos (like certain benefits bump biased setups can have when compared to rebound biased setups, particularly in a rally context) so take the stuff I'm talking about with a grain of salt. =)

So, why am I posting all this?

This spreadsheet is not currently publicly available, and I most likely won't release it (first of all you'd need Excel to be able to use it 100% reliably, it tends to glitch out on OpenOffice and LibreOffice despite my best efforts to keep it working in them). However you may have noticed RimanDK's new Project CARS setup sharing website (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32940-A-new-home-for-all-your-setups). We've been working together on it (he did all the hard work), and in the near future we'll begin work on implementing the capabilities of my calculator directly into the website, enabling you to see highly usable info about the setup while editing it. The idea is to make my old spreadsheet obsolete. We're really excited by the prospects, and hope to make it into a powerful tool for the heavy users, and perhaps help enthusiastic people get a better understanding of what the settings they're adjusting actually mean.

For example I find that adjusting the springs is really difficult without actual concrete measurements about what the values translate to with a given car. As an example the Audi R8 LMS Ultra has a very low front motion ratio and a high but still fairly low rear motion ratio (low motion ratio means the actual spring rate felt by the car is lower than the nominal spring rate). This means that the springs and dampers need to be a LOT stiffer to provide effective spring rates as a car like the BMW Z4 GT3, which has very high motion ratios (a high motion ratio means the spring rate felt by the car is nearly as high or even higher than the nominal spring rate). The cars weigh roughly the same, but to get the same effective suspension stiffness the Audi R8 LMS Ultra needs 450 N/mm springs at the front and 200 N/mm springs at the rear compared to the Z4 GT3 which would need only 220 N/mm at the front and ~100 N/mm at the rear. Even though the spring rates of the Audi are double what the BMW has, the effective stiffness is the same.

Likewise the front/rear split is highly significant, both the Audi and the Z4 have lower motion ratio at the front and a higher one at the rear, so their front springs need to be significantly stiffer to give the same level of effective spring rate, and we can see that the Audi has over twice the spring rate at the front than the rear. A car like the SLS AMG GT3 which has motion ratios that are very similar on both ends ends up using springs that are much closer together for the same sort of suspension bias, to match the Audi R8 LMS Ultra's suspension stiffness and bias the SLS AMG GT3 would use 340 N/mm springs at the front and 320 N/mm springs at the rear, a difference of only 20 N/mm.

This tells us that:

A) Anything we learn about suitable spring stiffness in one car isn't really transferable into another car, even within the same type.
B) Anything we learn about suitable front/rear split in springs in one car isn't really transferable into another car, even within the same type.
C) Without actually calculating what the springs do when combined with the weight, weight distribution, unsprung weight, motion ratios etc. of the car in question we can't really have an idea of how stiff a spring is for that car. A 40 N/mm spring could be a very soft, normal passenger car spring in a 1600 kg car, but might be a stiff racing spring in a 500 kg track day rocket. Or with a very high motion ratio it could be really stiff the heavy car, and with a very low motion ratio it could be a very soft in the light car.
D) Due to C the setup ranges don't tell us anything about how stiff the car actually is with any given setting, just that a higher setting is stiffer than a lower setting. People might be averse to using extreme slider settings, but actually doing the math can reveal that extreme settings are sometimes immensely sensible. (For example IIRC the Ginetta G55 GT3 has damper ranges that are quite low compared to the springs, so even maximum settings don't get you particularly stiff dampers. This is realistic though, that is the character of the dampers the car is homologated with. Another example would be the Atom V8 500, where even the minimum damper settings give you rates that'd be tremendously hard on your back, and tyres, in real life.)

This all goes for dampers as well, with the additional complication of the digression knee speed. This essentially means the damper speed where they go from the slow setting to the fast setting. On some cars the digression knee is really early, meaning the slow setting almost acts as only a preload, with the fast setting being the really dominant one for most of the car's behavior, and on some the digression knee can be at such fast speeds that you barely ever actually get there, meaning the fast setting can be almost useless. Again you wouldn't know without doing the math.

And this is why I made the calculator. During development I got the devs to share the necessary information with us, so that you don't have to guess what your springs and dampers are doing anymore, with a bit of effort you can see it via numbers and graphs. This can make setup work so much quicker by removing guesswork. It has definitely been a massively helpful tool when diagnosing issues with cars, be it general over or understeer biases, handling in specific situations, or designing a setup for a specific purpose (like track day or comfort settings for street cars, a setup for smooth track or a bumpy track, etc.).

This calculator functionality will be available to you via the Unofficial P.CARS Setups (http://projectcarssetups.eu) website once we have implemented it, so look forward to it. =)

willfred_TandZproduction
26-06-2015, 21:16
Yeah, I know I probably want too much!!!
But you said something interesting: in the F-Rookie vids, they start with Ride height & springs. When you watch the guide videos, it starts with Brakes and Tyres... this is why I wrote about sequence.

I guess, as you and they said, is really go to the track and experiment, so I quote as well: nice job overall @ willfred_TandZproduction

The video guides were not organised in order of tuning, we split them up into groups of simple changes and more complex. This was done to ease people into the mindset and understanding needed for car setup. As a result the tuning guide is out of order. This is why the case study series were started to allow people to see the process.


I have the same questions.
For instance, do we have to change suspension setting before adjusting slow/fast bumps and rebounds?
i would recommend doing the dampers post springs ride height and geometry. when i do chassis setups on cars (both road and race car) we always record the damper setting and set it to to its softest setting. As a result i don't touch the dampers until i've fiddled with the springs. you can then use the dampers to fine tune the cars handling.


I see your points, but i think it was mentioned by @ Multivitz that setting up a car is kinda a black art.

EG, if these guys were to explain by changing A it affects B,C & D these videos would go on for hours and hours.

If you watch the F Rookie video, they start with sorting ride hight & springs i think first then move onto camber.

I dont think the videos are vague at all, i just think there is so much info how do you fit it all into 10 mins.

One of the things i learned from this, was driving for X laps with telemetry on then save video via share button and watch back to see whats happing.

Keep up the good work @ willfred_TandZproduction
as much as multivitz is knowledgable i don't agree with the statement tuning is a black art. its a simple process, but what can make it difficult is the way you approach it. As most people have a limited understanding tuning is often an inefficient process which leads to undesirable behaviours. This is why we do a videos to make it clearer and easier to do.


Sorry that I've not yet read through the thread completely, seems like there's plenty of interesting stuff here. I'd like to pitch in a little bit.

A) Anything we learn about suitable spring stiffness in one car isn't really transferable into another car, even within the same type.
B) Anything we learn about suitable front/rear split in springs in one car isn't really transferable into another car, even within the same type.
C) Without actually calculating what the springs do when combined with the weight, weight distribution, unsprung weight, motion ratios etc. of the car in question we can't really have an idea of how stiff a spring is for that car. A 40 N/mm spring could be a very soft, normal passenger car spring in a 1600 kg car, but might be a stiff racing spring in a 500 kg track day rocket. Or with a very high motion ratio it could be really stiff the heavy car, and with a very low motion ratio it could be a very soft in the light car.
D) Due to C the setup ranges don't tell us anything about how stiff the car actually is with any given setting, just that a higher setting is stiffer than a lower setting. People might be averse to using extreme slider settings, but actually doing the math can reveal that extreme settings are sometimes immensely sensible. (For example IIRC the Ginetta G55 GT3 has damper ranges that are quite low compared to the springs, so even maximum settings don't get you particularly stiff dampers. This is realistic though, that is the character of the dampers the car is homologated with. Another example would be the Atom V8 500, where even the minimum damper settings give you rates that'd be tremendously hard on your back, and tyres, in real life.)

This all goes for dampers as well, with the additional complication of the digression knee speed. This essentially means the damper speed where they go from the slow setting to the fast setting. On some cars the digression knee is really early, meaning the slow setting almost acts as only a preload, with the fast setting being the really dominant one for most of the car's behavior, and on some the digression knee can be at such fast speeds that you barely ever actually get there, meaning the fast setting can be almost useless. Again you wouldn't know without doing the math.

And this is why I made the calculator. During development I got the devs to share the necessary information with us, so that you don't have to guess what your springs and dampers are doing anymore, with a bit of effort you can see it via numbers and graphs. This can make setup work so much quicker by removing guesswork. It has definitely been a massively helpful tool when diagnosing issues with cars, be it general over or understeer biases, handling in specific situations, or designing a setup for a specific purpose (like track day or comfort settings for street cars, a setup for smooth track or a bumpy track, etc.).

This calculator functionality will be available to you via the Unofficial P.CARS Setups (http://projectcarssetups.eu) website once we have implemented it, so look forward to it. =)
I would actually go further and say you approach every track from scratch. as this often only leads to unwanted handling characteristics. i understand why people do it but once you get the idea of tuning it won't take long to do it from scratch.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
26-06-2015, 22:04
I would actually go further and say you approach every track from scratch. as this often only leads to unwanted handling characteristics. i understand why people do it but once you get the idea of tuning it won't take long to do it from scratch.I only made the calculator so that the numbers in the setup screen actually translate into something meaningful and comparable between cars, and to remove as much unnecessary testing with guesswork setups that are never going to make sense (like racing car setups with 100% higher rear spring suspension frequencies, or locked down supercritical damping, or completely underdamped settings, etc.). If you don't know what the numbers actually mean for the car you can easily end up testing more or less ridiculous combinations for hours on end trying to blindly find something that'll work, especially if you try to employ something you've learned with one car in another, which might well have completely different geometry, that you can't check. It's kind of like looking at how the tyre temperatures are coming out when adjusting for tyre pressure and camber instead of just guessing, giving you actual metrics to work with.

It's also really useful for finding specific issues with cars. Like at one point the BMW M3 GT4 had significant issues while entering corners with bumps on the entrance, or just in situations where you were being rough with it. It could have been caused by many things, like too rear biased springs, too much rear rebound damping causing oversteer in braking or lift-off situations, too much rear bump damping causing the rear to break loose in the bumps, diff issues, or many other things, but when I fed the setup into my calculator, I instantly saw that the rear damping was just too low (average was significantly under 50% critical at 3 in/s), it couldn't control the rear springs properly and the tail wanted to oscillate a lot longer than the front. So I just found damper values that made sense for the situation and instantly the car was fixed, handling bumps with ease. At one point the BMW M3 E30 Gr.A had issues with very sudden and terminal understeer, even if the actual front end grip level was fairly high. It just wanted to lose the front grip suddenly. On top of that the car was overall bouncy and unstable when hitting disturbances with only one side. Feed it into the calculator, and I instantly saw that the front suspension frequency was 60% higher than the rear and just massively stiff overall, which robbed the front end of any progressiveness, the damping was very low which made the car oscillate too long (bouncy), and the anti-roll bars were overly stiff, which made hitting asymmetric bumps disturb the other side of the car too harshly (suspension wasn't independent anymore). Fix the front bias to something more sensible, up the dampers to more suitable range, and lower the ARBs, and the car became a ton more progressive and dynamic during entries, didn't get bothered by bumps, and maintained stability over kerbs etc. One of the LMP2 cars felt significantly more difficult to drive than the others even when set up similarly, it was less settled over bumps and overall less calm and trust inspiring, the calculator revealed that even though the weight, weight distribution, motion ratios, springs and damper settings were almost identical with another car, the damper digression knee was different, which caused it to need very different damper settings to hit the same actual damping rates as the other car. Adjust them again with that taken into account, and the car was just as great as the other one (and trying to replicate the "bad" setup in the other car also gave similar problems). There were tons of situations like these where I could fix problems in car behavior by just looking at how the suspension metrics came out. Trying to figure those out by adjusting one thing, then driving a few laps, adjusting another, driving a few laps again, etc., would have taken days, instead it took minutes. =)

It's not a cure all, and mostly it's useful for finding a nice baseline to start from, but it can be immensely helpful at preventing "silly stuff". =)

Personally, after I've gotten a baseline for a car that I'm comfortable with, I've mostly found that other than aero and gearing (and diff on occasion) adjustments there's really not too much to be gained by fiddling too much with the springs and dampers, a car that corners neutrally and handles bumps well on one track tends to corner neutrally and handle bumps well on other tracks as well. Occasionally stiffening up a bit for a smooth track or softening the setup for a bumpy track can be beneficial, but even then I like to maintain the same front/rear and damping bias in the car, to retain the basics of the handling even though the stiffness changes, making it easier for me to get comfortable with the car on the new track. =)

Equation
30-06-2015, 10:58
Very interesting text.

Where you find all those equations? I tried to google those, but I didn't find.

danpinho
02-07-2015, 19:22
In one of your vids you said that 9 out 10 race cars have a rear end setup made assym.
Did I understand it correctly?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
06-07-2015, 16:38
Where you find all those equations? I tried to google those, but I didn't find.Googling for "natural frequency" will give you the suspension frequency (you do need the weight, weight distribution and unsprung weights front/rear for the car as well to make proper use of it though, as well as the spring rate and the motion ratio for the spring), "critical damping" will get you something that helps you calculate the damping ratio of the spring+damper+weight system. For the most part you can't really calculate the suspension frequencies or damping rates of a car that you don't know the motion ratio or digression knees of, and it can be massively misleading to try.

I have actually decided I'll try to clean up my spreadsheet a bit and release it into the wild, the online version is still some time away so it'll give people something to play around with in the meantime. =)
In one of your vids you said that 9 out 10 race cars have a rear end setup made assym.
Did I understand it correctly?I hope not, if I did it was by accident. Can you point me to a spot in the video?

What most race cars do have is stiffer rear suspension than front suspension (depending on the weight distribution etc. this might not actually mean the springs are stiffer, just that the overall effect is stiffer). Also cars with a live rear axle have a different motion ratio in roll and heave, so have different effective suspension rates when cornering and in a straight line.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
06-07-2015, 20:24
I have now released my spreadsheet to give people something to play with for the time being, until we can get the online version up and running. Head here to get it and learn a bit more about it.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32940-A-new-home-for-all-your-setups&p=1033985&viewfull=1#post1033985

MABlosfeld
25-08-2015, 17:22
Just a suggestion: SMS developing 3D fine tuning and launch as DLC, I like and buy.

216161

mickeyknoxx
29-08-2015, 19:05
I have now released my spreadsheet to give people something to play with for the time being, until we can get the online version up and running. Head here to get it and learn a bit more about it.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32940-A-new-home-for-all-your-setups&p=1033985&viewfull=1#post1033985

Hey Jussi, Thanks for the effort. This Calculator made my life so much easier. Now i can tune a car so much faster and have more time to spend in the tracks. One thing i would like to know, are you going to release a new version with the lastest cars added to the game ? Thanks. Keep up the good work.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
29-08-2015, 20:14
Hey Jussi, Thanks for the effort. This Calculator made my life so much easier. Now i can tune a car so much faster and have more time to spend in the tracks. One thing i would like to know, are you going to release a new version with the lastest cars added to the game ? Thanks. Keep up the good work.Yes, it should be out early next week.

mickeyknoxx
30-08-2015, 00:43
Yes, it should be out early next week.

Nice. Thanks a lot.

Jever
18-10-2015, 07:06
Is it possible to get a rain setup video, just explaining the Ground ideas to setting up a car in the rain.

inthebagbud
18-10-2015, 07:19
Is it possible to get a rain setup video, just explaining the Ground ideas to setting up a car in the rain.

See tuning section of this http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?38864-Forum-Resources-for-Pcars thread and the link to videos by Doge, who has posted a wet setup video

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
20-10-2015, 07:05
Probably the most basic of basics for rain is that you want more mechanical grip, so usually = softer overall setup. You might also need to change the balance of the car more towards oversteer, because with the lower amount of grip you're not getting as much weight shift when braking and in corners, and can end up with a more understeery car.

DreamsKnight
24-10-2015, 10:39
I have now released my spreadsheet to give people something to play with for the time being, until we can get the online version up and running. Head here to get it and learn a bit more about it.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32940-A-new-home-for-all-your-setups&p=1033985&viewfull=1#post1033985

I believe that almost no one has understood the importance and utility of the monstrous work done by this man.

and I do not understand why he is so humble that he had not made his personal topic publishing and publicizing his exceptional work. he deserves the glory and a statue!!!

starting from his calculations, you can quickly create a base setup, eliminating upstream all the unexplained and idiots problems... before get on track! at this point you can very quickly adjust all other parameters, easily!

the experience of racing and gaming increases exponentially, totally removing the part of the frustration often encountered. sometimes i hate the sheet: it transform cars in such a good way, that i think i'm playing an arcade (in a good way, cars more easy to drive).

is recommended for anyone, but as inexperienced person, I recommend it also to the inexperienced as me. It is very simple to use, just read the notes and advice written for US


Edit: changed some errors. Not my language.

donpost
24-10-2015, 15:35
I believe that almost no one has understood the importance and utility of the monstrous work done by this man.

and I do not understand why he is so humble that he had not made his personal topic publishing and publicizing his exceptional work. he deserves the glory and a statue!!!

starting from his calculations, you can quickly create a base setup, eliminating upstream all the unexplained and idiots problems... before get on track! at this point you can very quickly adjust all other parameters, easily!

the experience of racing and gaming increases exponentially, totally removing the part of the frustration often encountered. sometimes i hate the sheet: it transform cars in such a good way, that i think i'm playing an arcade (in a good way, cars more easy to drive).

is recommended for anyone, but as inexperienced person, I recommend him also to the inexperienced as me. It is very simple to use, just read the notes and advice you have entered.

Hear! Hear!

Motor City Hamilton
11-11-2015, 19:09
Great video tuning guide. Nicely done.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
11-11-2015, 20:02
I believe that almost no one has understood the importance and utility of the monstrous work done by this man.

and I do not understand why he is so humble that he had not made his personal topic publishing and publicizing his exceptional work. he deserves the glory and a statue!!!I'm not that humble, I advertise the calculator in my every post (it's in my signature)! =)

Thanks for the compliments though, I'm just really happy that you and other people are finding it useful. Indeed, I did barely any setup work myself in the 20 years I'd been sim racing before I joined WMD, preferring to learn different driving techniques to maximize whatever setup is on the car rather than changing it to how I wanted (setting the driver up for the car rather than the car for the driver, it's fun), but during the development I just felt like it was part of my "job" as a tester to understand what I was testing, and see if some problems had an easily identifiable cause, and whether changes had their logical effects. The calculator came out of that, and seems to perform adequately.

Jounijkk
28-03-2016, 19:17
Jussi, is it possible to have Your calculator in excel-format. Now it's rar-file and I can't open it.

At this moment I try to find decent setup for Bentley gt3, track Nordschleife. There are many examples, how to tune Bentley. I have tried many of them, but I haven't found any break through with those setup. There is always same problem - in slow corners I can't drive very fast because the car is going wide. Try Mercedes C amg Dtm with basic setup and compare that with Bentley- then You will know what kind of behaviour I'm looking for.

There is one video ( Bentley 23 min race video) in YouTube, made by Simyos JK, witch I'm very interested. I really like to know what kind of setup style he or she is using because the car goes like a train and it goes ultra fast - so fast that I really don't understand how it's possible. Maybe here are living some kind of aliens or there is something in this setup world that I haven't found yet.

I think the wings are 0,2, very little camber, fast rebound is high but not max, tyre pressure is somewhere 1,84 but the rest is in the dark side. I know here are really good experts and maybe You could find the style just by watching the video.

And thank you for excellent thread.

Jouni

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
28-03-2016, 19:37
Jussi, is it possible to have Your calculator in excel-format. Now it's rar-file and I can't open it.It IS in an Excel format, just packaged up in a .rar archive. You can use almost any file archiver/compressor program to open it, including but not limited to WinZip, WinRar and 7z.

The reason it's in a .rar archive is that the forum software only allows you to upload a few different file types, and Excel files aren't included in those file types. So I must put it in an archive first and then upload it.

Jounijkk
28-03-2016, 21:10
Ok, thank you for your answer. I think I can convert the file. Your system looks interesting and helpful.

Jouni

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
28-03-2016, 21:36
Ok, thank you for your answer. I think I can convert the file. Your system looks interesting and helpful.

JouniIt's not converting, it's more like opening up a package. =)

I can help you through it if it really turns out to be difficult. I have to admit, I'm sort of surprised that anyone has managed to use computers to the extent of learning how to browse the internet, sign up for forums and work with Excel without learning about how to open up .zip, .rar and .7z files. I tend to rank file archives and file compression as one of the most basic computer skills among copy/paste, light web browsing and moving around directories, and it's usually been something that's featured in introductory computer usage classes in primary school. =)

Jounijkk
28-03-2016, 22:44
Jussi: thx, now it's working. You have done huge work with Your calculator. Now I try to find some improvements to Bentley with Your tool.
One question about this calculator: if I have values for one car witch has good setup, can I make conclusions when I'm working other car = can I make the cars behaviour similar using Your calculator? I try to change Bentleys reactions in slow speed corners to direction of MB C amg Dtm.

Jouni

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
28-03-2016, 23:38
Yeah, if the spring frequencies, frequency balance and damping rates are similar from one car to another, the cars should react similarly. So if you for example like a GT3 car around the 3.5 Hz range with the front frequency 20% higher and like to have the average damping at 3 in/s at about 75% front and 65% rear with an 60/40 rebound/bump bias, then that would be something to try out in the other GT3 cars.

But it's not obviously ever totally that simple. All cars have differences in their wheelbase, track width, amounts of downforce produced, downforce bias front/rear, tyre sizes, suspension geometry (dynamic camber changes, dynamic toe changes, anti-dive or anti-squat design, Ackermann steering, kingping inclination, multi-link suspension vs. double wishbone suspension, etc. etc. etc.) so you won't make the cars behave EXACTLY the same way with the same settings.

But similar frequencies do mean similar stiffness, and similar critical damping rates do mean similar control over the movements of the suspension, so you can definitely carry over your preferences to some extent.

BigDad
29-03-2016, 02:08
It's not converting, it's more like opening up a package. =)

I can help you through it if it really turns out to be difficult. I have to admit, I'm sort of surprised that anyone has managed to use computers to the extent of learning how to browse the internet, sign up for forums and work with Excel without learning about how to open up .zip, .rar and .7z files. I tend to rank file archives and file compression as one of the most basic computer skills among copy/paste, light web browsing and moving around directories, and it's usually been something that's featured in introductory computer usage classes in primary school. =)

lol. When I went to school computers were the size of a room. No computer studies for me lol

Honkey
10-09-2016, 01:55
having worked on cars in driveability for years. i always thought a flat tire will get the hotest. a high pressure will slip first because less of the tire is touching the ground.

if you run your tires on your car to high of pressure the middle of the tire well wear first.
to flat it well get to hot and fail through the side wall. ever seen a tire that was run flat? is has shredded rubber inside the tire like its eating it self