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View Full Version : clio cup overheating and cold tyres help plies



kekeberg
10-05-2015, 12:56
hello

im driving in career mode clio cup and front left overheats (between 95 and 115c) all the time but right front is very good 90c. at the back its horrible 60C left rear 40c right rear
i am lost 7h of time put in to this driving 5 too 10 laps back in pit adjust 1 little thing get back out put i don't find the solution i am 2sec slower than IA if i over push it 1sec but you know what that does to my front tires this is on silverstone AI drives it in 1m14sec.

just for you all know am a racing driver and i play a lot on games i am not an expert on car setup but i know some things but with the knowledge i have i don't find the solution.
can somebody help me out i want to enjoy this game

best regards N

TPH
10-05-2015, 15:51
As the Clio Cup is FWD it seems like you are pushing the front tires too much with acceleration in the corners. The car is setuped to have a loose backend (much lift off oversteer). I think if you balance the car better in regards to oversteer and understeer by chucking the car more into the corners and and only use the throttle to sit just on the edge of oversteer it will improve overall temps. You should feel that the car understeers when you are opening the throttle too much.

It takes a little different approach for FWD cars.

kekeberg
10-05-2015, 18:20
yes i agree i over push the front tires because in all the left hand corners my back end goes away i lost time for regaining the lost time i push harder in the right hand corners what results in over heated front left tire what i want to know is how to solve the cold rear right tire i have setup thats sort of works i have now 55celsius but still brings me in to trouble i have adjust the toe angle it helps but not enough :(

Robforzaking
11-05-2015, 07:07
I noticed the AI seem really good at silverstone international in my race they were doing 1:15's and I was doing low 1:17,s on the other tracks I got a win and a 3rd and a couple of 5ths but on this track I'm so off the pace!!

Bealdor
11-05-2015, 08:38
yes i agree i over push the front tires because in all the left hand corners my back end goes away i lost time for regaining the lost time i push harder in the right hand corners what results in over heated front left tire what i want to know is how to solve the cold rear right tire i have setup thats sort of works i have now 55celsius but still brings me in to trouble i have adjust the toe angle it helps but not enough :(

The Clio has a front engine and is FWD. Since you have only minimal load on the rear tires it's almost impossible to keep the rear tires hot.
Btw. the inside tire is not important while cornering. You shouldn't care too much about that right rear tire on a track that you're driving clockwise.

00chapmano
11-05-2015, 11:47
I'm also really keen to know how the AI get such outrageous lap times on Silverstone. I've spent hours and hours on the same track using the practice session, trying all different tuning setups and the best I can scrape is 1.16s. Then I look on the scoreboard and I notice that some of the AI have a 1.11!!!!!!!! I cannot for the life of me work out what's going on here. I presume the AI must take advantage of different tunings or something. Does anybody actually know? I've followed some of the AI round the track and they don't appear to be going any faster than me - certainly not by 4 seconds! BTW - I have the AI difficulty on 80%.

Bealdor
11-05-2015, 11:51
I'm also really keen to know how the AI get such outrageous lap times on Silverstone. I've spent hours and hours on the same track using the practice session, trying all different tuning setups and the best I can scrape is 1.16s. Then I look on the scoreboard and I notice that some of the AI have a 1.11!!!!!!!! I cannot for the life of me work out what's going on here. I presume the AI must take advantage of different tunings or something. Does anybody actually know? I've followed some of the AI round the track and they don't appear to be going any faster than me - certainly not by 4 seconds! BTW - I have the AI difficulty on 80%.

Did you simulate or fast forward? This can sometimes result in unrealistic laptimes,

danowat
11-05-2015, 11:53
You can balance the tyre heat by using tyre pressures.

In the Clio Cup, I usually have the rears set at 1.4 and the fronts 1.6, although some tracks hit the front tyres more, so I increase the pressure slightly.

You also need to pay attention to camber to make sure you aren't heating the inside or outside of your tyres too much.

00chapmano
11-05-2015, 12:04
Did you simulate or fast forward? This can sometimes result in unrealistic laptimes,

We'll I certainly didn't follow any of them round the track and witness a crazy lap time such as this. But I was driving the whole time - a whole 90 minute practice session and when I looked at the board half way through, I saw these insane times. Are you saying there's a bit of a bug then with the AI? Is it possible that only the cars you can physically see on track get simulated?

Bealdor
11-05-2015, 12:26
We'll I certainly didn't follow any of them round the track and witness a crazy lap time such as this. But I was driving the whole time - a whole 90 minute practice session and when I looked at the board half way through, I saw these insane times. Are you saying there's a bit of a bug then with the AI? Is it possible that only the cars you can physically see on track get simulated?

No. But there's a "skip to end of session" function that calculates the laptimes instead of letting the AI drive it. But since you've driven the whole session this shouldn't apply to your problem apparently.

00chapmano
11-05-2015, 12:35
Well I've posted this issue to the support forum. Definitely needs to get fixed so if anyone wants to back me up, feel free! :)

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23699-Extremely-unrealistic-AI-lap-times&p=897914#post897914

piezor
11-05-2015, 14:30
You can balance the tyre heat by using tyre pressures.

In the Clio Cup, I usually have the rears set at 1.4 and the fronts 1.6, although some tracks hit the front tyres more, so I increase the pressure slightly.

You also need to pay attention to camber to make sure you aren't heating the inside or outside of your tyres too much.

This man has your answer to the rear tyre issue. I do the same (run lower rear tyre pressure in the clio). the lower pressure gives an increased contact patch on the tarmac so they're easier to keep up to temperature.

gwr3850
11-05-2015, 14:34
They seem stupidly fast around Snetterton too. Down the straight coming upto the bridge. I HAVE to brake at the 100m down to 4th. They brake on the apex and zoom through?

They can brake very late at the 1st hairpin too, not reaistic.

danowat
11-05-2015, 14:38
They seem stupidly fast around Snetterton too. Down the straight coming upto the bridge. I HAVE to brake at the 100m down to 4th. They brake on the apex and zoom through?

They can brake very late at the 1st hairpin too, not reaistic.

I assume you are talking about the AI?, they do not perform exactly like the player.

Brundle is a really tough corner in real life, I've nearly come a cropper there a number of times, on both 2 and 4 wheels!!, it sucks you in, especially in a car like the Clio cup that gets very flighty under braking.

gwr3850
11-05-2015, 15:05
Yes sorry, I was referring to the AI. It just they seem to be able to get away with breaking on the apex - and I mean just a dab by the way. My setup seems rather stable under braking

I physically can not, even braking at the 50 it's impossible to hit the apex. Or am I taking that corner wrong?

danowat
11-05-2015, 15:08
Yes sorry, I was referring to the AI. It just they seem to be able to get away with breaking on the apex - and I mean just a dab by the way. My setup seems rather stable under braking

I physically can not, even braking at the 50 it's impossible to hit the apex. Or am I taking that corner wrong?

See how the (pros) do it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGKYV4M2hI8

gwr3850
11-05-2015, 15:17
Great video. I use pretty much the same braking points and such. Just seems daft as the AI zoom through the two corners I mentioned in career.

Loving the game so far otherwise.

I especially love the clios at Donny. Managed get a 1.17.7 at the national layout on time trial :)

FMS TopSecret
11-05-2015, 15:49
I understand your problem with the front left mainly overheating and the right rear being too cold, this is because most tracks are clockwise therefore having more right hand turns putting more pressure on your front left especially the clio being FWD. I was tuning for brands hatch indy but i put the front left pressure at about 1.6-1.7, front right 1.5-1.6, rear left 1.25-1.35 and finally rear right at 1.1-1.2. For anti clockwise tracks in the clio switch the right and lefts and this should fix the problem and heat your tires up close to each other rather than rears being colder for another half a lap in P or Q session.

Umer Ahmad
11-05-2015, 16:45
Pressure and Heat are dynamically related in project cars STM tyre model and calculated in realtime.

Absolutely.

kekeberg
11-05-2015, 16:52
This man has your answer to the rear tyre issue. I do the same (run lower rear tyre pressure in the clio). the lower pressure gives an increased contact patch on the tarmac so they're easier to keep up to temperature. that is totally wrong but hey if it works why not i will try that

kekeberg
11-05-2015, 16:58
I understand your problem with the front left mainly overheating and the right rear being too cold, this is because most tracks are clockwise therefore having more right hand turns putting more pressure on your front left especially the clio being FWD. I was tuning for brands hatch indy but i put the front left pressure at about 1.6-1.7, front right 1.5-1.6, rear left 1.25-1.35 and finally rear right at 1.1-1.2. For anti clockwise tracks in the clio switch the right and lefts and this should fix the problem and heat your tires up close to each other rather than rears being colder for another half a lap in P or Q session. this is so damn wrong the lower you set the pressure you have not allot of air this means even if you heat you're tire hard you will never get the pressure you want because you have not Enough air that's why you set it higher btw am speaking of real racing al the clios in my category starts with 1.6 front and 1.8bar rear so thy get warm 2.0 and 2.0bar in the game you say need to do the other way ??? if it works fine by me

Umer Ahmad
11-05-2015, 17:33
ok, i just tried 3 laps FREE PRACTICE @ Donington National. Only 3 adjustments, everything else *DEFAULT*:
1. Brake Pressure reduced 77
2. FUEL 20L
3. Tires = SLICK

The car felt absolutely fine to me. I left the HUD telemetry on so you can see realtime all the data and even my pedal/wheel inputs (G27)


http://youtu.be/nu0hzmrxv0g

Questions: Is your experience FAR from this? You have no control? Constantly spinning out? Where is your experience different than the video I just made 10 minutes ago?

(I am not yet using TomShane's excellent data capture tool otherwise I could have graphed/plotted the pressures for you guys. WMD: anyone seen miagi?)

graveltrap
11-05-2015, 18:52
As it has already been mentioned here, the AI is capable of crazy braking in a number of corners, On several different tracks in the Clio Cup, Silverstone, Snetterton and Oulton Park, being the tracks I've really noticed it on.

I will of pulled a safe gap that shouldn't need defending but it disappears instantly so much so that I've found a car trying to overtake! Vale (Silverstone), Fosters (Oulton), away from the PS4 and not very familiar with Snetterton but the same thing happens as well.

Not had a problem with overheating tyres other than wets once the track drys a little, I set pressure around 1.4 front / 1.6 Rear.

FMS TopSecret
11-05-2015, 19:55
this is so damn wrong the lower you set the pressure you have not allot of air this means even if you heat you're tire hard you will never get the pressure you want because you have not Enough air that's why you set it higher btw am speaking of real racing al the clios in my category starts with 1.6 front and 1.8bar rear so thy get warm 2.0 and 2.0bar in the game you say need to do the other way ??? if it works fine by me


This may be wrong but its a game not a real clio, when i was at brands hatch with these type of tire pressures they heated up equally at around the same time after 1 lap. when i had standard tire pressures the front left would heat up much faster then the front right and the rears would take another half a lap of the car struggling to brake on high cambered corners or spinning at sweeping corners. the front left would soon overheat and the rear right would sometimes go cold again. Forza tuning is exactly the same, the lower the tire pressure the quicker your tires heat up and forza had put that in the tire pressure description help. Pcars just state that decreasing front tires increase understeer and to counter oversteer decrease rear tire pressure, which makes sense since the clio has oversteer problems with cold rear tires and the lower pressure creates more understeer because the tires are heating up faster. cold tires oversteer and hot tires understeer. if you were to go and test 1.0 bar and 2.0 on the rears the might not even heat up on 2.0 during the remainder of a qualifying or practice but with 1.0 they would heat up really fast. a higher pressure would be fine for a race since they start at good temperature but as an overall i would recommend lower rears in general for the clio.
it doesnt really matter about enough air because if they made a game into so much detail for tuning it would be not as much fun, its not like for aero tuning you can set its actual real life lbs of downforce and edit it. they just simplify it like all racing games.

crowhop
11-05-2015, 20:09
Did you simulate or fast forward? This can sometimes result in unrealistic laptimes,
That explains it. I've seen the AI get 1:13 in Practice for the Donnington race, but only Qualify a 1:18.5ish. I wondered what might have happened.

Bealdor
11-05-2015, 20:12
I've seen the AI get 1:13 in Practice for the Donnington race, but only Qualify a 1:18.5ish. I wondered what might have happened.

If you fast forwarddd or skipped to end of session the calculated laptimes are most likely bugged.

crowhop
11-05-2015, 20:19
Great video. I use pretty much the same braking points and such. Just seems daft as the AI zoom through the two corners I mentioned in career.

Loving the game so far otherwise.

I especially love the clios at Donny. Managed get a 1.17.7 at the national layout on time trial :)The AI makes up for it as they take Turn 1 (Riches) very slowly compared to what I can do. They definitely take Brundle and Nelson quicker than I can, but I take Riches and Montreal quicker than they do. It makes for an overall good race.

As for Donington, the AI is very, very slow through Turn 4. I make almost a second there every lap, if I hit it correctly. But they make time in Turn 1 compared to me.

I got to the Practice session at Silverstone and noticed I was a good bit off the pace, but I only ran a few laps.

PC Version - AI Set to 100.

bmanic
11-05-2015, 20:26
Yeah they bug when you fast forward or simulate session. Let it go real time and I have no problems competing with the AI. I think I had mine set at 95% last time I tried and was keeping up with them just fine.

Donington Turn 4 (old hairpin) is a known issue. ALL cars, no matter what AI difficulty, take that corner way too slow. In the Ginetta G40 series I can do between 4 and 5 seconds faster laps with AI set to 100% difficulty. I really hope this gets fixed. :(

kekeberg
12-05-2015, 19:19
ok, i just tried 3 laps FREE PRACTICE @ Donington National. Only 3 adjustments, everything else *DEFAULT*:
1. Brake Pressure reduced 77
2. FUEL 20L
3. Tires = SLICK

The car felt absolutely fine to me. I left the HUD telemetry on so you can see realtime all the data and even my pedal/wheel inputs (G27)


http://youtu.be/nu0hzmrxv0g

Questions: Is your experience FAR from this? You have no control? Constantly spinning out? Where is your experience different than the video I just made 10 minutes ago?

(I am not yet using TomShane's excellent data capture tool otherwise I could have graphed/plotted the pressures for you guys. WMD: anyone seen miagi?)

man you have some great setup because you release the throttle in mid corner normally you lose the back end of the car if you do so wow man

kekeberg
12-05-2015, 19:22
Great video. I use pretty much the same braking points and such. Just seems daft as the AI zoom through the two corners I mentioned in career.

Loving the game so far otherwise.

I especially love the clios at Donny. Managed get a 1.17.7 at the national layout on time trial :)

if you want to calm down the rear under turninng and braking set the brake mapping at 4.5 maybe 5 but thinks that's to high it works good but if you go to high you will get understeer

turbohondaej1
13-05-2015, 04:43
Just some tips that might help fwd with long cornering you may want to tap the brake while accelerateing throughout the turn to help maintain your line. It's called left foot braking. Also I drove the Clio cup car earlier in the online event at brands hatch and noticed my front left was really hot too. I didn't get a chance to try tuning it in but this game has individual adjustments per tire. In real life a setup for that track would had a corner balance setup to adjust the weight on each wheel by ride height. Also each individual tire would have different settings for camber so maybe try to use more negative camber on the right front if it's heating up. Also try to lower the back end down to put more weight on the rear or raise the front. Also don't forget to mess with the shocks and springs according to what you are doing. It's been along time since I setup a race car in a shop but this is how it should be done.

Ps if anyone can get the dev to add a scale so I can balance out the cars suspension for corner weight balancing that would be awesome.

gwr3850
13-05-2015, 09:25
I think I've found a pretty good setup that works, except the slight understeer at old hairpin. But again, I take that corner very fast in 5th. Shall record a video if I can match my fastest time and see what people think