PDA

View Full Version : Qualifying/Race AI laptimes



cjhill44
10-05-2015, 16:43
Great game, really enjoying it on PS4!

I have started a career in the clio cup and am tweaking the AI strength levels to get the best racing experience.

At Silverstone i had the AI set at 80% and qualified in 2nd on a 1:17, i could have gone faster but made a mistake on a quicker lap.

In the race i was nowhere! 1st place got away and i spent the whole race defending, holding the whole field up, although i did manage 4th place.

When i looked at their laptimes i was running the same times as in qually but they were doing 1:15.5s i.e 2-2.5 secs quicker!

Has anyone else noticed such a difference in laptimes from session to session?

theredshore
10-05-2015, 16:48
that sounds really odd, i think they tend to be quite cautious around each other so maybe that is what slowed them down

00chapmano
11-05-2015, 11:55
Great game, really enjoying it on PS4!

I have started a career in the clio cup and am tweaking the AI strength levels to get the best racing experience.

At Silverstone i had the AI set at 80% and qualified in 2nd on a 1:17, i could have gone faster but made a mistake on a quicker lap.

In the race i was nowhere! 1st place got away and i spent the whole race defending, holding the whole field up, although i did manage 4th place.

When i looked at their laptimes i was running the same times as in qually but they were doing 1:15.5s i.e 2-2.5 secs quicker!

Has anyone else noticed such a difference in laptimes from session to session?

I am in the exact same boat as you! AI also on 80%. I went to Silverstone and used the practice session to try and find a tuning set up that could possibly match the AI's speed. I could scrape a 1.16s at best and then I noticed that some of them had a 1.11s!!!!!! This must be a bug right? There's just no way anyone could be 5 seconds faster in the same car! I've tried everything and now it's starting to get in the way of my career progression because I feel like I must be missing something... If anyone can shed some light on this, I'd be extremely thankful.

mattrickl06
11-05-2015, 12:03
I noticed this but only on Silverstone, it seems to be on the next to last corner (chicane) as they brake right at the last minute and turn on a sixpence through the corners whereas i go skidding into the gravel when trying to brake so late.

Connor Caple
11-05-2015, 12:06
The AI are obviously 'on rails' for some corners and not using physics at all ;)

00chapmano
11-05-2015, 12:09
Yes, something definitely isn't right here. It's worth noting that the qualifying times of the AI weren't half as bad as the practice sessions. I believe it was a 1.15s for a couple of them in qualifying compared the 1.11s in practice. 1.15 is still outrageous though.

00chapmano
11-05-2015, 12:11
I noticed this but only on Silverstone, it seems to be on the next to last corner (chicane) as they brake right at the last minute and turn on a sixpence through the corners whereas i go skidding into the gravel when trying to brake so late.

You are definitely correct about that corner. They can brake stupidly late which is absolutely impossible no matter what I do to the car. Still, that wouldn't give them a 5 second increase so there's definitely something else up!

Siberian Tiger
11-05-2015, 12:18
The AI was manually balanced against the Player's Car...

So if you have some very fast AI on Track X or Car Y please let the Dev's know the combination. -> There are insanely much Combinations ;)

So for Example write like this:

Car: Ariel Atom
Track: Brands Hatch

The AI can Brake much later than the Players car on Corner X.

And Keep in mind that you also can tweak the Setup for your Car! On many Cars you can Improve the Braking ability, but you will lose some of your Braking Stability...

nigelmansell
11-05-2015, 13:14
Okay, so here goes:

I play on gamepad, AI is set to 40.

Donington, one of the first invitation events in Career mode, dry .
Car - Caterham Seven.

In qualifying, I set a time of 1:30, provisional pole, the closest AI driver is 1:32. One and a half minutes left, I'm on track and decide to simulate the rest.
BAM - I am fifth because the first four have somehow set times around 1:19.
How in the hell?

Siberian Tiger
11-05-2015, 13:15
Yes, Simulate the rest of the session can lead in unrealistic times.
(But it seems to happen not everytime)

This seems to be a Bug, but the Dev's have acknowledge of this.

vicdavery
11-05-2015, 13:20
Balancing the AI is obviously a massive task, many corners, cars, conditions.

Bear in mind too that the AI do not use the same physics simulation as the players car. It would be impossible, there just isn't anything like enough processing power with today's hardware. So inevitably there may be some situations where the AI perform inconsistently with the player's car.

As has been mentioned: highlight the specific situation to the devs and I'm sure it will get tweaked if it is confirmed.

BastilaShan
11-05-2015, 18:35
Having the same problem as the OP, same car, same circuit.
I can maintain the same speed as the AI until after the hanger straight,
from that point on the AI seem to be able to brake unrealistcally late.

I'm managing mid 1:16s but the AI are doing mid 1:14s on 90% difficulty.

mcarver2000
12-05-2015, 01:58
I have experienced the exact same thing with the Clio @ Silverstone. This is not in balance with the AI at same settings and other tracks.


I am in the exact same boat as you! AI also on 80%. I went to Silverstone and used the practice session to try and find a tuning set up that could possibly match the AI's speed. I could scrape a 1.16s at best and then I noticed that some of them had a 1.11s!!!!!! This must be a bug right? There's just no way anyone could be 5 seconds faster in the same car! I've tried everything and now it's starting to get in the way of my career progression because I feel like I must be missing something... If anyone can shed some light on this, I'd be extremely thankful.


I noticed this but only on Silverstone, it seems to be on the next to last corner (chicane) as they brake right at the last minute and turn on a sixpence through the corners whereas i go skidding into the gravel when trying to brake so late.

Fryto
12-05-2015, 07:34
The AI was manually balanced against the Player's Car...

So if you have some very fast AI on Track X or Car Y please let the Dev's know the combination. -> There are insanely much Combinations ;)

So for Example write like this:

Car: Ariel Atom
Track: Brands Hatch

The AI can Brake much later than the Players car on Corner X.

And Keep in mind that you also can tweak the Setup for your Car! On many Cars you can Improve the Braking ability, but you will lose some of your Braking Stability...

Car: Clio Cup
Track: Silverstone (I don't recall the variation name. It's the one in the Clio career)

In the chicane before start/finish, the AI will always try to outbrake you, even if they're still pretty far away from you. For some reason they also succeed without even overshooting the corner.

--------------

Car: Clio Cup
Track: Snetterton 200

In the second to last corner (long right hander), the AI drives much slower than needed. While I'm on the same pace as the AI on the rest of the track, I can easily pass 2-3 cars in that corner alone. (AI on 80%)

Daffers
12-05-2015, 07:34
Same problem here, i am at 85% . Too balance the ai being slower in qualifying i take max fuel in the q session.
altough i do notice that the ai is a lot faster or a lot slower on some corners than me. Seems like different physics apply for ai or something.

Frito, i noticed excactly the same things on those tracks!

mcarver2000
12-05-2015, 15:32
I also suspect the AI are cheating and pre-heating their tires in the pits. They are way too quick and nimble on cold tires on their out-lap.

creepyd
12-05-2015, 16:02
I suspect there's a tradeoff here.
In that the AI is mostly 'on rails' going round each track, but that in turn enabled them to behave brilliantly in relation to each other and most importantly, you.
I have never seen AI that avoids you so well as this game - every other game I get frustrated at constantly being taken out by stupid AI - not so here.

I also noticed a few bends in the Clio season where the AI is faster.
I can't remember the track, but there's a long fast 5th gear right where I can overtake 2-3 cars at once they take it so slow lol
Then another time they brake so late I went off 5 laps in a row trying to copy them!

And yeah trying to keep up with them on an outlap is completely impossible.

gcx
12-05-2015, 17:48
Hey guys, I registred on the forum just to reply to this thread.

I've been an avid sim racer for the past 25 years and decided to give pCars a chance to see if it holds the holy grail of useable in-game racing AI. My first impressions were actually quite good:
I started my career with the Clio cup, AI difficulty set at 80%. AI cars have a realistic feel while on track, certainly more belieable than most other sims.
Track performance were pretty stable and I didn't find much to complain about, I managed to win "only" half of the races and won the cup, then I moved on.
That's when things started to get worse.
So far, I've tried:
Clio Cup : not bad, quite playable/enjoyable, although even if I managed to do the pole by over 0.5s, they would still be on my tail during the race.
Formula Gulf : had to increase difficulty during qualy to around 90-100% and then drop it to 70% for the race, or they would drive around me (especially Dubai Short)
Historic TC2 UK Trophy : just unplayable to the point that I wanted to eat my G27, their qualy times at 80% are ok, but the collisions on those cars are just ridiculous, it's impossible to drive. During the races, they're too fast, again, not by much, but still super annoying. It started to rain in Brand Hatch and although I was third, they all blew past me and I never saw them again. I abandonned that season.
GT4 Asia-Pacific Trophy : Worse than ever, still 80% AI, at Dubai I did the pole 2.5s quicked than the 2nd and 4s(!?) quicker than the 3rd. During the race, they blow past me and I never see them again.

I did notice a general problem that's really annoying and that's been mentionned before, the AI cars seem to be much quicker during the race than during qualy or practice. Any motorsports fan will tell you that it's super frustrating and so far, I've noticed that in almost all cars/circuit combinations. Also, in the rain, it's like they're never affected by it.

I know that the response to that is that it needs to be tweaked, but is there any combination of tracks/cars that go well together in any conditions? If so, would it be possible to know which one so we can test it?

You seem to have good potential to have the best AI ever, please don't let it go to waste because of bad tweaking...! By the way, is there a way to "mod" the AI settings? I've been doing that since Microprose F1GP and Papyrus Indycar.

Pavletto
12-05-2015, 18:48
I am in the exact same boat as you! AI also on 80%. I went to Silverstone and used the practice session to try and find a tuning set up that could possibly match the AI's speed. I could scrape a 1.16s at best and then I noticed that some of them had a 1.11s!!!!!!
Silverstone International?

Daffers
12-05-2015, 19:07
I noticed this as well, i do qualifying on 92 and the races on 85 to counter this. I turned off tyre wear since only player is affected. Than the game is fun.
It needs to be patched but this is a workaround for now.

Black_Gold_Saw
12-05-2015, 19:11
I don't know your race setup, but like 30 minutes ago i did a real time weather race.
It was 10pm and my qualifying time was 1 sec faster than fastest race lap. And AI had same 'problem' their Quali time was faster than race.

So maybe ur race time was later than quali. AI addepted more than u, and maybe thats why u had problems holding up?

Pavletto
12-05-2015, 19:16
Im playing career,and sinse i start drive supercarts ive set ai to 100. no assist,manual shifting. And ai is NOT CHEATING at all!
If you talking about Silverstone International and Renault Clio Cup, ive just trained first time on this car,just for interest,and after 15 mins of training my time is 1.06.599, and i know what its not good. Ai at 1st place with 1.05.750, and i think i know,where is this one second-)

00chapmano
14-05-2015, 19:34
Im playing career,and sinse i start drive supercarts ive set ai to 100. no assist,manual shifting. And ai is NOT CHEATING at all!
If you talking about Silverstone International and Renault Clio Cup, ive just trained first time on this car,just for interest,and after 15 mins of training my time is 1.06.599, and i know what its not good. Ai at 1st place with 1.05.750, and i think i know,where is this one second-)

Wow, are you serious? That's a staggering lap time! Can you record this as a video so I can see where I'm going wrong? :)

00chapmano
15-05-2015, 15:11
I'VE FIGURED IT OUT!!!!

Turns out that any lap where you 'pitted in' will count as a full lap time. Since it takes less time to reach the pits than it does the finish line, it will most likely be your best lap (by quite a bit!).

I've documented this with a video at the following thread: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?25386-AI-Lap-Time-BUG-figured-out!-DEV-s-PLEASE-ACKNOWLEDGE&p=913952#post913952

Please can we get the DEV's to acknowledge!!

marcoma
18-06-2015, 17:29
Same problem, Xbox one. AI flies on the corner.

If I pit and change tires to soft, the problem is gone.

Track: Spa

Car: Ford MKiV

Gamingoneasy
18-06-2015, 18:13
My AI set to 60, which seems just about perfect for me. Maybe a little easy but If i go down to 50, im out in front by the second corner and screaming away.

And why is it always bloody raining?

rolandk10
18-06-2015, 18:42
I've definately noticed that the ai gets faster as the race goes on. I race at 100% race length so I'm usually doing 18-40 laps. I play around 60-80 ai difficulty. At a certain point, I usually stop pulling away from whomever is behind me. Maybe 2-3 laps at 80 and 8-9 laps at 60.

I still catch the back markers but the front of the pack paces me.

What really made me wonder was one race I was 3 seconds ahead of 2nd after about 3 laps. 10 laps later, I was still 3 seconds ahead. After I botched a corner and lost my spot, he was 3 seconds ahead of me. The interesting part is that i was now 20 seconds ahead of 3rd. It seems obvious that at least a portion of the field is adjusting it's pace relative to yours. Otherwise, what does 70 ai mean if one car is that much faster. I'm guessing there is a range that if I choose 70, the ai strength will be between 65-75 for example, but is it possible for one ai to get 85-95 or something?

I'd like to set the ai to where I'm about .75-1.0 seconds faster per lap than they are so when I make my inevitable mistake, I can still attempt to claw my way through the pack. It's been hard since they seem to change pace during the race and I may be wrong but it seems like their pace becomes based off the player performance.

k12doz
18-06-2015, 19:11
I've had several races where the AI were much faster in the race than in qualifying. Another problem I ran into was in the U.S. GT3 Cup. At Watkins Glen the race started in a thunderstorm. After the rain stopped and the track began to dry, I pitted with a 5 second lead in the main race. During the dry period I maintained my 5 second lead without gaining or losing. The rain started again and the track quickly became very wet and I had to stop for rain tires. Even though the track was once again soaked the AI did not pit again for rain tires but managed to maintain a pace as if they had wet tires on.

It's frustrating when you think you have the BOP right for your skill level and the entire AI grid turns into super drivers that can continue to race through a rain storm on slick tires.

Animera
18-06-2015, 19:32
I had a similar experience. I was wanting an easy race after a long day at work so I set the AI at 80, but I qualified 2s ahead of 2nd place, so I changed it to 85.
Then this guy showed up for the race! He was clearly way faster than the rest of the AI, but it made for a great race.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZOVcXRv4is

DozUK
18-06-2015, 20:35
It's a known issue that the AI runs qualifying with fuel fuel, stupid I know but a known issue. Therefore to find the right AI level for yourself you too should run qualifying with full fuel ie a level playing field. If you don't do this you will think you've found the right level then when you race the ai will have less fuel and will zoom ahead because the ai level is actually stronger than perceived fr the qualifying

Doug914
18-06-2015, 22:18
Next patch you should Career qualifying laps get noticably faster (solo races not so much). Yes we fixed the full fuel loads and also make them stay out longer so they get more clean laps.
Also, the reason the AI was getting faster as the race goes on was the drop in weight from fuel loss , but there is no drop in performance from tire wear. This too is changed and working in the next patch. The balance between fuel loss and tire wear might not be perfect, but it's working in the next patch.

DozUK
19-06-2015, 06:25
Next patch you should Career qualifying laps get noticably faster (solo races not so much). Yes we fixed the full fuel loads and also make them stay out longer so they get more clean laps.
Also, the reason the AI was getting faster as the race goes on was the drop in weight from fuel loss , but there is no drop in performance from tire wear. This too is changed and working in the next patch. The balance between fuel loss and tire wear might not be perfect, but it's working in the next patch.

That is most welcome news Doug, thanks very much for letting us know. So it will now be competitive in career if a human driver runs with minimum amount of fuel for laps running against an AI driver from next patch? Also, you mention 'solo races not so much', should we still run solo qualifying with full fuel to remain competitv

Thanks for the info?

Doug914
19-06-2015, 16:28
The ai didn't use full fuel loads in solo mode, only career (caused by the no pit allowed switch) . So the only item that would help them there is staying out for more sequential laps.

DozUK
19-06-2015, 18:10
Thanks for explaining Doug, that's great

Fationably Late
24-07-2015, 16:19
I just complete the practice and qualifying for the Bathurst 24hr (Road B class cars) at 100% AI on real time. Near the end of the practice at around 1:28:00 out of 1:30:00, I decided that I wasn't going to improve my 6th place time so I simulated the last couple of minutes...no big deal. The problem is, when I paused session, the lap times for the fastest car was around 2:14-ish. After the simulation completed, the fastest car had done a 2:09! In a road car. As far as I know (from Wikipedia) the fastest lap EVER was done by a Formula 5000, which was a 2:09. How are Road B cars producing about the same lap times?

Unfortunately, I didn't take a screenshot to prove any of this, so I was wondering if anyone else has had this happen to them. I am on PC with the latest patch (2.5) installed.

I feel like the longer you simulate a session, the better the AI get. It's like a punishment for not completing the whole practice or qualifying session. I assumed this to be true, so I ran the entire 30 min qualifying session. The AI never got below the 2:14 range and I retained my consistent 6th place from practice. What gives?

Mahjik
24-07-2015, 17:00
It's a Known Issue:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22315-Known-Issues-Collective-Thread-(PC)-Not-for-bug-reporting!-Updated-12-07

"Skip to end of session can lead to "impossible" AI lap times"

Fationably Late
24-07-2015, 20:30
Thank you. I forgot about that list. :)

guybo
02-01-2017, 20:47
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who experienced this! In that final chicane the AI do things I just can't even begin to try. There's other corners too but I was losing 1-2 secs/lap there. I turned the AI down to 92% and I managed to climb up a few spots from my 20th starting position (DFL) but no points.

I've had pCars for a while but stopped sim racing for a few months and I'm doing the career mode now. The AI at the other tracks so far are OK, but there are a few magical corners.