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Spiderx
10-05-2015, 23:26
I like playing the game but something funky is happening, how come i grab a GT3 car, go to a track, trash it around and i rarely loose control over it ? is there some magical aids still on that im not aware of ?

Mahjik
10-05-2015, 23:42
Most of the cars setups are defaulted to a fairly safe and stable setup. This means you can go out and drive, but if you were to compete with WMD members who have setups, they'll be much quicker.

Driving a race car around isn't necessarily hard. Trying to go really fast can be... So a few questions:

1. In the Game Options for Aids, what do you have defined?
2. Which game mode are going thrashing around?
3. What times are you laying down when thrashing about?

Spiderx
10-05-2015, 23:44
Pro and no AIDS whatsoever, i know htat driving a race car not on the limit is easier then alot of people think, nevertheless, cant stop to feel that an invisible hand is helping me around. Its not only about the times, i am in no way a fast driver, but its more the way i attack msot turns and get away with it... just that.

mha1012
10-05-2015, 23:49
Jesus, after 500 laps at Spa....i got online and lucked out with a pole position...proceeded to spin out at the 1st chicane at the top of the hill....where were you invisible hand??

Ryzza5
11-05-2015, 00:05
Try a GT4 car and get back to us, less grip and aero should make a difference.

If you really want to slip slide around, I recommend the Ariel Atom 500 V8 :)

chrisracer
11-05-2015, 00:51
If your car isn't doing anything funny (spinning, sliding, etc...) you're not going fast enough!

Umer Ahmad
11-05-2015, 00:57
Can you defeat the AI set to 85% strength at Dubai? Thats your target.

dyr_gl
11-05-2015, 00:58
Most of the cars setups are defaulted to a fairly safe and stable setup. This means you can go out and drive, but if you were to compete with WMD members who have setups, they'll be much quicker

This is a terrible approach. Default should be pretty competitive, so players could get out the final tenths with small tweaks. The fact players need to mess about a couple of hours to avoid getting curbstomped by someone who "has a setup" is nonsense. When a driver arrives to a track 90% of the setup work is done.

TenthDan
11-05-2015, 01:04
This is a terrible approach. Default should be pretty competitive, so players could get out the final tenths with small tweaks. The fact players need to mess about a couple of hours to avoid getting curbstomped by someone who "has a setup" is nonsense. When a driver arrives to a track 90% of the setup work is done.

Default setups are competitive in that they allow most people to get the cars around the track easily and enjoy racing. A lot of the setups people are 'faster' with are because they're tuned for driving style, which can often be completely undriveable for others!

What will happen is that people will share 'faster' setups in the setup and tuning section for others to try out.

There's also the point that a great setup for some types of track can be terrible for others (I.e. bumpy Cadwell vs high speed smooth Monza), so the defaults have to cater for all this in a reasonable way.

dyr_gl
11-05-2015, 01:11
Defaults should be track specific already. They should be a half baked job with the basic stuff already done: cooling, overall aero levels, gearing, tyre pressure. Then let drivers tune in the final details.

If that's too much to ask, a handful of premade ones for similar places would do.

Umer Ahmad
11-05-2015, 01:15
You'll see pretty soon people will start sharing their setups publicly.

Spiderx
11-05-2015, 01:26
Thanks for all the replies, have a couple more questions but ill make them on the apropriate sections :)

yusupov
11-05-2015, 01:33
even on real GT3 will have TC, for one thing. second without it they still have about as much grip as anything that isnt formula-spec or modern DTM.

tbh i have barely touched the gt3's here bc theyve kinda worn on me as a class in sims. but one of the first things i did was test a mclaren compared to iR & AC & they have a bit less grip by default imo, tho are easier to catch & save.

but yeah, if you dont want bags of grip id suggest racing something else, i havent tried the old-school DTM cars yet but those should be a little more fun.

Spiderx
11-05-2015, 01:43
Seems i was on the right place anyway, maybe you guyz can tell me a couple of things more:

- Shaking wheel, please tell me i can make that go away, i want the wheel to shake when i shake it :/
- Ai driving in PITS, this one is kinda of a bummer, so gorgeous pits and then i cant run on them myself, if not possible is this on the todo list or not really ?

Umer Ahmad
11-05-2015, 01:45
Player full control of pit driving is on the to-do list

JeyD02
11-05-2015, 01:50
This is a terrible approach. Default should be pretty competitive, so players could get out the final tenths with small tweaks. The fact players need to mess about a couple of hours to avoid getting curbstomped by someone who "has a setup" is nonsense. When a driver arrives to a track 90% of the setup work is done.

You know.. Getting a setup it's not easy. And it only effective when you do it yourself and for yourself.

Spiderx
11-05-2015, 01:57
Player full control of pit driving is on the to-do list


And the shaking wheel ? oh another question if its not abusing your patience, when on Helmet cam is there a reason for me not to see the Helmet overlay ?

yusupov
11-05-2015, 02:00
shaking wheel?? are u thinking of dirt rally? i def havent noticed that, maybe its a helmet cam thing? that has more effects than basic cockpit view.

Joven
11-05-2015, 02:02
I don't believe theres a way to disable the shaking wheel.
As for not seeing the helmet, if you haven't accidentally disabled the overlay, then it would depend on the car. For instance the Vintage cars use an older style helmet which wouldn't have the overlay.

TenthDan
11-05-2015, 02:08
And the shaking wheel ? oh another question if its not abusing your patience, when on Helmet cam is there a reason for me not to see the Helmet overlay ?

Should be in visual options, under the Movement tab: High Speed Shake. Can't remember if that's a cockpit or wheel effect, but try it first...

Umer Ahmad
11-05-2015, 02:17
Think thats cockpit shake only.

pleclair
11-05-2015, 03:00
You certainly haven't played many sims, cause it all works the same... default setup are noob friendly... and easy to drive.. (and yet, you find plenty of threads, oh I can't turn! gimme my money back).... but you will never achieve any position on the leaderboard with a default setup.

Give time trial a try, and see where you stand... you might be surprised...

yusupov
11-05-2015, 03:02
and trust me, its a lot better to have safe stable setups as a baseline than wacky screwed up ones

dyr_gl
11-05-2015, 10:09
You certainly haven't played many sims, cause it all works the same... default setup are noob friendly... and easy to drive.. (and yet, you find plenty of threads, oh I can't turn! gimme my money back).... but you will never achieve any position on the leaderboard with a default setup.

Give time trial a try, and see where you stand... you might be surprised...

Which is a terrible way of handling it. Default should include the basic track specific traits like overall aero levels, gearing, cooling, ride height... In a real series they arrive to a track with 90% of it done, then do some tweaks for finetune of balance if felt the need.

This "easy to handle thing" is not even true, they're just sort of central values. You don't get max aero "so you can drive easy", you get a central value .

Connor Caple
11-05-2015, 10:22
Real cars are not as hard to drive as 'sim racers' have been led to believe.

That's why we have less deaths in motor racing now. The cars are designed to be stable, grippy and have good handling.

Buy a track day sometime, you'll see what I mean.

dyr_gl
11-05-2015, 11:28
Which is a terrible way of handling it. Default should include the basic track specific traits like overall aero levels, gearing, cooling, ride height... In a real series they arrive to a track with 90% of it done, then do some tweaks for finetune of balance if felt the need.

This "easy to handle thing" is not even true, they're just sort of central values. You don't get max aero "so you can drive easy", you get a central value .

As I donīt want to be perceived as cheap talking, Iīll explain with examples. Letīs say you drive a Formula A around Barcelona.

How does a rookie benefit from default 6 wings instead of 8-10 wings?
How does a rookie benefit from 2ī4 degrees of front camber instead of 3+ degrees?

Iīll tell you, he doesnīt, he just gets a worse, slower and harder to drive car. The default setups are a total mess. There should be a quick tuning menu to give people a good baseline for each track that then can be further tweaked for the final details.

And of course, an option to create "default only" rooms for multiplayer is highly needed to give us an option to have an even playfield for these days where you stick to quick races.

Spiderx
11-05-2015, 18:04
You certainly haven't played many sims, cause it all works the same... default setup are noob friendly... and easy to drive.. (and yet, you find plenty of threads, oh I can't turn! gimme my money back).... but you will never achieve any position on the leaderboard with a default setup.

Give time trial a try, and see where you stand... you might be surprised...


You know, when people try to help me out i reply politely and dont pull the i know better then you card, but theres always a smart one that comes with the usual comments, no i havent played any sims in my life, just all the ones that existed since 1985 .... and im a computer programmer since 1982 ... and gosh beta tester for some other Sims that i shall not name here to not hurt anyones feelings.

Shaking wheel is a gimmick, a stupid gimmick that if not on the todo list then it should be, if im not shaking the wheel nor the FFB is.... please then dont shake it, its a visual only thing but induces on a player that does play with it activated to think theres some deadzone in it... Dirt rally does the same awfull thing ...

Regarding the Helmet, i didnt remove any overlay and no i dont have 3d vision nor 3DTV installed, ence the question, not a big deal since i use cockpit camera anyway but would love to see it working nevertheless. I supose that having the Steam overlay doesnt kill this one does it ?

And to the give time trial a a try and see where you stand comment, pleaseee beeing fast or slow doesnt mean things are working as they are suposed to work, just means you are better then the game, i know 7 year old kids who break world records in Real Racing on Android, that doesnt mean its realistic does it ? ...

Thanks for the ones that legitimately tried to help.

PS : Online is quite cool, pitty it explodes with unhandled exceptions 90% of the times when the grid is more then 15 ... :), and before some smart ass asks me if i ever played a game online i will tell you that i not only played but already developed several multiplayer games ( basic stuff ofc to just learn TCP/IP and UDP)

Spiderx
11-05-2015, 18:09
Real cars are not as hard to drive as 'sim racers' have been led to believe.

That's why we have less deaths in motor racing now. The cars are designed to be stable, grippy and have good handling.

Buy a track day sometime, you'll see what I mean.

100% correct m8, real racing cars handle alot easier then 95% of people think, but, theres limits for all you can do on them, specially when driving near the limit :) ence the question, i say this because i managed to do some laps full throtle in Zolder on a mclaren mp4 12c GT3 and i end up scratching the head and having to crash it myself just to ...you know...see if it crashes :) felt weird, just that.

menaceuk
11-05-2015, 18:14
Real cars are not as hard to drive as 'sim racers' have been led to believe.

That's why we have less deaths in motor racing now. The cars are designed to be stable, grippy and have good handling.

Buy a track day sometime, you'll see what I mean.

Yep, it is that safe that stuff like this never happens


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tELTDvK8F2U


Ruh Roh!

Nightauditor
11-05-2015, 18:40
I think I know what op is talking about here, I felt similar things with the evo. Even when it is right in the powerband in 2nd gear, it wonīt induce oversteer. You can scandinavian flick it or force with the handbrake, but it wonīt hold a slide. It kind of feels as if the power is restricted at some times. I have all the aids off, and I think other cars feel much better in this respect.

Is there anything about the evo that I am missing? And yes, I am aware that it is awd, but you should be able to have a bit of fun with it.

Hype_Z
24-05-2015, 15:52
Hello,

I am feeling something very similar to what SpiderX and Nightauditor were describing. The Trans AM Cobra used to be a riot in this game, with the back sliding out on power and moving around a lot under braking (I believe the St... Ben Collins was very pleased with the car too) now... I don't know if I somehow messed up the settings but the car feels very tame. I know it's not very popular to name other games but... the Trans AM felt as fun as its counterpart in RF2 the Celica GTO... some cars seem to have developed understeer when they shouldn't. The effects of dynamics of weights and inertia to steer the car seem gone, you only can drive like a modern F1... I mean the SLS AMG won't do a power slide? Won't even try? It will just go into benign understeer? I don't buy it ... I've watched enough Top Gear :cool:

Another thing that I've notice is how hard it is to achieve (to be read as "impossible") brake lock-up!!! This bothers me. I have set the AIDS to off and I fail to lock-up the wheels in many cars. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

N0body Of The Goat
24-05-2015, 16:54
The only car I have a custom setup for so far in retail is the Formula A @ Azure Circuit from yesterday (faster steering ratio; smaller brake ducts; lower top speed final gearing), every other car/track combo in the game is default.

My average online qualifying and finishing position is 3rd, mainly for GT3 and Formula A races. ;)

Many of my leaderboard times show all assists on, when in fact they were set to "real" (a known bug).

Sankyo
24-05-2015, 18:01
I think I know what op is talking about here, I felt similar things with the evo. Even when it is right in the powerband in 2nd gear, it wonīt induce oversteer. You can scandinavian flick it or force with the handbrake, but it wonīt hold a slide. It kind of feels as if the power is restricted at some times. I have all the aids off, and I think other cars feel much better in this respect.

Is there anything about the evo that I am missing? And yes, I am aware that it is awd, but you should be able to have a bit of fun with it.

The Evo is a very non-ordinary AWD IIRC. You may again have tweak the set-up to get it more slide-able.

ermo
24-05-2015, 18:13
This is a terrible approach. Default should be pretty competitive, so players could get out the final tenths with small tweaks. The fact players need to mess about a couple of hours to avoid getting curbstomped by someone who "has a setup" is nonsense. When a driver arrives to a track 90% of the setup work is done.


Defaults should be track specific already. They should be a half baked job with the basic stuff already done: cooling, overall aero levels, gearing, tyre pressure. Then let drivers tune in the final details.

If that's too much to ask, a handful of premade ones for similar places would do.


Which is a terrible way of handling it. Default should include the basic track specific traits like overall aero levels, gearing, cooling, ride height... In a real series they arrive to a track with 90% of it done, then do some tweaks for finetune of balance if felt the need.

This "easy to handle thing" is not even true, they're just sort of central values. You don't get max aero "so you can drive easy", you get a central value .


As I donīt want to be perceived as cheap talking, Iīll explain with examples. Letīs say you drive a Formula A around Barcelona.

How does a rookie benefit from default 6 wings instead of 8-10 wings?
How does a rookie benefit from 2ī4 degrees of front camber instead of 3+ degrees?

Iīll tell you, he doesnīt, he just gets a worse, slower and harder to drive car. The default setups are a total mess. There should be a quick tuning menu to give people a good baseline for each track that then can be further tweaked for the final details.

And of course, an option to create "default only" rooms for multiplayer is highly needed to give us an option to have an even playfield for these days where you stick to quick races.

As someone who has been involved via WMD, all I can say is that I look forward to your analysis and the resulting writeup with a well thought out set of 'default' setups, once you've taken the time to get your notes in order and your writeup is complete enough that you feel comfortable sharing it here, of course.

A couple of questions to help you frame said writeup:

Who is your so-called 'default setup' targeting? The hypothetical 10 year old with a console and a pad and no idea of how to drive a car -- let alone race it -- properly? The hypothetical 30+ family man with a simracing hobby and the disposable income to buy triple-screen setups, high-end PC peripherals and an inclination to build his own button boxes? The hypothetical teenage console racer with a wheel and a background in Forza and GT?

Doug Arnao (a real life racer and the guy who did some of the tyre-model tuning, default setups and the AI waypoints) was tasked with making all the cars drivable with pads on the default setups in a rather limited time-span. That's your reference in case you are wondering; I mean, the devs are still learning about the nuances of the tyre model for Pete's sake. Things take time.

Best of luck. :)