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heppsan
11-05-2015, 05:24
SMS, can you please do something about the horrible AI?!
And also tighten up the loose / lame cut track rules and penalties.

The AI trash the fun with this otherwise decent "sim"!!

They are all over the place, cheating, cutting track and corners.. .
And they do everything not to make contact with other cars instead of holding their lines!..
And instead of avoiding accidents, they causing them!

I had to restart the Formula Rookie at Watkins Glen for over an hour before I could finish the 10 lap race, the AI messed it up within 2 laps every time.. .
I was starting from the back of the pack and tried to lower the AI strength to 80% without getting it any better..
And I was constantly getting the fastest laps, so it's not that they are to fast for me.
To keep playing the F3 I had to start qualifying and get on pole to be able to enjoy it.
And hot lapping isn't really my thing!..


I do like the fact that they are aggressive and trying to overtake positions back from you.
And also overtaking each other, and they should make mistakes.
But not constantly go off track and smashing into cars reentering the track..

It looks like they have too much awareness to the sides, and don't care about if they go off track, or even into a wall to escape a closing car..
And they have to little awareness in the front and back.
Cause they turn right out in front of you in the middle of a pass, and slams right in to your rear, using you as their brake in the corners!
Or they just simply cut the corner on the inside and slams into your side reentering the track!!


If you would have implemented more strict cut track rules to the game without fixing the AI.
I would win by default, without even leaving the pits.. .

Really hope you will address this issue, I'm not having fun racing them in their current state.
And will probably delete this from my pc and forget all about it if it doesn't change.


In the best of intentions from Sweden.
//Henke

heppsan
11-05-2015, 12:15
Bump.

Would be nice to hear a devs side on this matter.

Falconeye
11-05-2015, 12:21
I agree, big problem with IA bumping us without any reason sometimes and with a bizare behaviour.

Matther
11-05-2015, 12:37
I agree even in novice mode I get bumped a lot by AI. I think it will be fixed here shortly.

caslad81
11-05-2015, 12:41
Definitely a game breaker for me amongst other things.

vicdavery
11-05-2015, 13:07
I've not had any problems with the AI myself. Perhaps you could include a video(s) of where you having problems. That would certainly make it easier for the devs to diagnose the problems.

And I'm not suggesting it's the case for you, but I might sometimes think an opponent did something dodgy until I view it in the replay and then realise that actually I was driving a bit daft myself. :) This has happened in many games, not just PCARS.

dyr_gl
11-05-2015, 13:11
Only complaint I have until now is their speed. I jump into career at Formula Ford, first car I operate a manual clutch and heel-toe, 100% AI, and in first practice I end first. When driving around them in practice they behaved OK, letīs see in the race.

Bealdor
11-05-2015, 13:14
Please post videos if you can. I can't confirm your observations btw.

Sankyo
11-05-2015, 13:20
We need some factual data/evidence first before we jump to conclusions about the AI. Not saying that they're perfect, but IMO they do a great job in racing you in a human way if you treat them as human drivers and not as mindless drones that will let you through whenever you want it, no matter the situation.

You have to choose your moment for overtaking and you have to be clear about your lines, or they'll try and get you just like real-life drivers.

The AI are not doing laps, they're racing. They won't give up their spot easily nor will they be driving safely behind you until you let them past.

If you treat them like human racers and are careful with what you do and when, they're awesome. Not faultless, again like real-life drivers, but awesome nonetheless :)

heppsan
11-05-2015, 14:04
I've not had any problems with the AI myself. Perhaps you could include a video(s) of where you having problems. That would certainly make it easier for the devs to diagnose the problems.

And I'm not suggesting it's the case for you, but I might sometimes think an opponent did something dodgy until I view it in the replay and then realise that actually I was driving a bit daft myself. :) This has happened in many games, not just PCARS.


Please post videos if you can. I can't confirm your observations btw.


We need some factual data/evidence first before we jump to conclusions about the AI. Not saying that they're perfect, but IMO they do a great job in racing you in a human way if you treat them as human drivers and not as mindless drones that will let you through whenever you want it, no matter the situation.

You have to choose your moment for overtaking and you have to be clear about your lines, or they'll try and get you just like real-life drivers.

The AI are not doing laps, they're racing. They won't give up their spot easily nor will they be driving safely behind you until you let them past.

If you treat them like human racers and are careful with what you do and when, they're awesome. Not faultless, again like real-life drivers, but awesome nonetheless :)

You mean you haven't seen the Ai racing alongside the tracks and cutting the corners???
It happens all the time!!

Just try to go door to door with them and see what happens, they turn right out on the grass..
If there is a corner, they cut it!

This also happens if you see several AI's side by side..

NinjaTrek2891
11-05-2015, 14:22
and if they do it.. they seem to imune for the grass or sand. :)

While when I do it.. I either fly over kerbs or I'm going down to 20kph in sand.

heppsan
11-05-2015, 14:27
and if they do it.. they seem to imune for the grass or sand. :)

While when I do it.. I either fly over kerbs or I'm going down to 20kph in sand.

Actually I think it's quite forgiving when I go off tracks as well..


Devs:
Watch the first corners of this vid and you see what I mean.
They do fine when on their own, but with cars along side them they freak out!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eD7o_f7s0Y

DoodlesSWE
11-05-2015, 14:34
I was laughing my head off yesterday, was running Ford RS on Sonoma and car to my left goes off track out on the grass in the 2nd corner up at the hill. Then turns full right and goes flying right across the track just missing me by an inch wiping the next car in front of me. then bumps back on that car goes right across the whole track out to the left again and smacks dead stop in the fence... The AI i friggin' nuts.

Sankyo
11-05-2015, 14:42
You mean you haven't seen the Ai racing alongside the tracks and cutting the corners???
It happens all the time!!

Just try to go door to door with them and see what happens, they turn right out on the grass..
If there is a corner, they cut it!

This also happens if you see several AI's side by side..
I know that the AI run off-track very easily when avoiding contact and with that can also cut corners, and since they see kerbs as part of the track they will cut corners with just 2 wheels touching the kerbs if necessary. Haven't seen much worse yet myself, but not saying that they may be too generous in their off-track escapades.

DozUK
11-05-2015, 14:47
Please post videos if you can. I can't confirm your observations btw.

Here's a video that I posted from a separate post, it shows the AI cutting corners to take the lead from me on 55 seconds and again on 2 mins 15 seconds. Pause the vid on 2 minutes 18 for a good laugh and the clear evidence that you seek.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=kSxQZVYroWY

DozUK
11-05-2015, 14:48
I know that the AI run off-track very easily when avoiding contact and with that can also cut corners, and since they see kerbs as part of the track they will cut corners with just 2 wheels touching the kerbs if necessary. Haven't seen much worse yet myself, but not saying that they may be too generous in their off-track escapades.

Again, see my vid above, all four wheels on grass pause on 2 mins 18 seconds. Clear as crystal

DoodlesSWE
11-05-2015, 14:57
Again, see my vid above, all four wheels on grass pause on 2 mins 18 seconds. Clear as crystal

Yeah there is no doubt there at all :D

Andy Baker
11-05-2015, 15:04
If the AI had the same slowing penalties at humans when they do it then it wouldn't be so bad, but it hardly effects them at all, its like they are still on tarmac.

DozUK
11-05-2015, 15:12
If the AI had the same slowing penalties at humans when they do it then it wouldn't be so bad, but it hardly effects them at all, its like they are still on tarmac.

That's a very good point, they glide across the grass. They should still get a penalty, but I'd settle for what you say as little advantage would be had.

Oh well, at least this provides unarguable video proof that a) it happens and b) the physics are not the same for AI against player in this situation which has a detrimental effect to a human player.

To be fair, video proof was requested, now it's been delivered we need to give the devs time to fix it. I'm sure it has to be a priority issue because at it's crux it's a race game and this can't happen in a race.

I'll be happy for now if the devs acknowledge this and confirm that it will be addressed.

Andy Baker
11-05-2015, 15:16
The thing is though its been like this for a couple of years, when i was still invested in the project more than a couple of years ago the same discussions were had then in the closed forums, yet it remains unchanged. I'm not hopeful it will improve.

Ian Bell
11-05-2015, 15:19
Sorry guys but if you drive like a human I think we have some of the best AI ever shipped in a game. It's impossible to please everyone and yes they do get a bit aggressive above 80% but at 80-85% I'm having a wonderful time with them.

Respect where they are on the track. Don't assume they're going to just give way to you because you have a bumper inside them.

And yes they are occasionally fast off track but the alternative is they bash you or give up as it's normally YOU pushing them off track. The solution we have reached is the most appropriate for fun racing as I see it.

DozUK
11-05-2015, 15:30
I'm not disagreeing with your compromised view of the AI and you may well be right in the long run but a wmd member stated that the AI would/should always have two tyres on the tiles and asked for evidence of cutting when this rule wasn't adhered to. That's what's been given on this thread. If the devs can do something with this I will be very happy.

In the video attached, the ai car was behind me, there was nothing to respect or any giving way to be had. If the car couldn't pass me without hitting me it should have used the brakes as I would have had to in the reverse situation. If anything he didn't respect me as the car in front ha

I have to say though, loving the game and the AI is streets ahead of other like minded games so well done with that.

vicdavery
11-05-2015, 15:38
I'm not disagreeing with your compromised view of the AI and you may well be right in the long run but a wmd member stated that the AI would/should always have two tyres on the tiles and asked for evidence of cutting when this rule wasn't adhered to. That's what's been given on this thread. If the devs can do something with this I will be very happy.

In the video attached, the ai car was behind me, there was nothing to respect or any giving way to be had. If the car couldn't pass me without hitting me it should have used the brakes as I would have had to in the reverse situation. If anything he didn't respect me as the car in front ha

It's quite difficult to see from the camera angle on that one, but to me it looked as though the AI was very much alongside you at both times you mentioned and you turned in on him, giving him no option but to take to the grass. Maybe yes, he had too much grip on the grass but as Ian said the alternative would have been him sliding back off the grass into you and likely taking you both out.

A chase camera angle would probably clarify the incident a bit better though, I could well be wrong.

twistedvaccine
11-05-2015, 15:40
I've noticed a few times now when lapping that the AI is extremely aggressive.
On more than a few times I've been struck when doing a nice casual speed, ending up with me in some barrier and me getting an off track penalty?!?
On a few endurance races.. getting knocked off a few times has resulted in DQs, which is an hour or two wasted through no fault of my own.
I have tried the AI difficulty on different settings to no avail.. it's becoming very very frustrating!

DozUK
11-05-2015, 15:46
It's quite difficult to see from the camera angle on that one, but to me it looked as though the AI was very much alongside you at both times you mentioned and you turned in on him, giving him no option but to take to the grass. Maybe yes, he had too much grip on the grass but as Ian said the alternative would have been him sliding back off the grass into you and likely taking you both out.

A chase camera angle would probably clarify the incident a bit better though, I could well be wrong.

That's a fair point and I will review the replay when I got home from a chase camera. If you pause the video on 2 mins 15, the shadow of the other car shows that it is behind me at that point as I turn towards the corner but I agree at that point I have left space there at that point for a bite :)

PeteUplink
11-05-2015, 16:01
I was initially very disappointed with the AI bumping into me in corners. However, upon looking at the replay every time I was involved in a AI collision, I soon realised that it was mostly down to my positioning of the car.

Here's an example. At the start of a race in Formula A at Silverstone, I left decided to take a wider line into the first turn to avoid the drivers on the inside. I didn't look in my mirrors to see what the cars behind were doing and didn't realise that an AI car had elected to do the same and was on the outside of me. I cut to the apex for the next corner and cut across the other cars nose. My initial thought was that I was rammed from behind by an AI driver, but on viewing the replay I saw that the collision was caused by the fact that I didn't know he was there and left him no room.

Also, I think the AI behaves differently for some cars than it does for others. I did a touring car race around Oulton Park last night. One of the Mercedes cars was very aggressive towards me and the other AI cars, bumping and barging his way through other drivers. I've also noticed that some AI drivers will pull into you if you are on the inside of a corner, but others will leave you room.

I'm not saying the AI is prefect, but I've found that if I drive more reactively, and don't treat them like mindless automatons who just follow the racing line, I have cleaner races.

PeteUplink
11-05-2015, 16:06
I've noticed a few times now when lapping that the AI is extremely aggressive.
On more than a few times I've been struck when doing a nice casual speed, ending up with me in some barrier and me getting an off track penalty?!?
On a few endurance races.. getting knocked off a few times has resulted in DQs, which is an hour or two wasted through no fault of my own.
I have tried the AI difficulty on different settings to no avail.. it's becoming very very frustrating!

I used to have this issue with the original GTR game by Simbin. I found that the best way to be lapped was to stay on the racing line through corners, really block the inside so the AI can't do a kamikaze up the kerbs, and only let them pass me on straights.

In fact, in real GT racing and LMP1 races the back markers are instructed to maintain their normal racing line and it's the lapping driver than has to avoid hitting them. Maye if you stay on-line instead of trying to move out of the way, it might help?

DozUK
11-05-2015, 16:07
It may appear that I'm having a go at this game but in all honesty I'm not, I'm highlighting tweaks that could make this game better than it already is and as has been pointed out, the video I supplied could well be down to my error as I'm not the best racer.

I do have to say that it's head and shoulders better AI than any racing game I've played (And I've played most over the years), the devs have done an amazing job. My video submission was purely to help with any possible bugs as has been requested, but I accept that it may not be a bug and my driving.

I just wanted to say that :)

twistedvaccine
11-05-2015, 16:10
I used to have this issue with the original GTR game by Simbin. I found that the best way to be lapped was to stay on the racing line through corners, really block the inside so the AI can't do a kamikaze up the kerbs, and only let them pass me on straights.

In fact, in real GT racing and LMP1 races the back markers are instructed to maintain their normal racing line and it's the lapping driver than has to avoid hitting them. Maye if you stay on-line instead of trying to move out of the way, it might help?

I mean when im lapping, i get blue flagged when they do it but i highly doubt they do when im lapping..
Even when im not lapping and just racing normally i find this to be the case..

heppsan
11-05-2015, 16:23
It's quite difficult to see from the camera angle on that one, but to me it looked as though the AI was very much alongside you at both times you mentioned and you turned in on him, giving him no option but to take to the grass. Maybe yes, he had too much grip on the grass but as Ian said the alternative would have been him sliding back off the grass into you and likely taking you both out.

A chase camera angle would probably clarify the incident a bit better though, I could well be wrong.

Even if he was along side on the video that DozUK posted the AI should have hold to his line, not escaped over the grass!!



Sorry guys but if you drive like a human I think we have some of the best AI ever shipped in a game. It's impossible to please everyone and yes they do get a bit aggressive above 80% but at 80-85% I'm having a wonderful time with them.

Respect where they are on the track. Don't assume they're going to just give way to you because you have a bumper inside them.

And yes they are occasionally fast off track but the alternative is they bash you or give up as it's normally YOU pushing them off track. The solution we have reached is the most appropriate for fun racing as I see it.

I disagree!
I am a respectful driver even against the AI, and have tried both on 80, 90 and 100% and it's all the same..

I can give you that your AI is better than in AC.
But it's far behind if you compare it to GSCE or R3E.
If you look at the beginning of this vid you can clearly see the difference, and that this AI's is keeping their lines even in door to door action in the corners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzWnyRAocT4

DoodlesSWE
11-05-2015, 16:36
Sorry guys but if you drive like a human I think we have some of the best AI ever shipped in a game. It's impossible to please everyone and yes they do get a bit aggressive above 80% but at 80-85% I'm having a wonderful time with them.

Respect where they are on the track. Don't assume they're going to just give way to you because you have a bumper inside them.

And yes they are occasionally fast off track but the alternative is they bash you or give up as it's normally YOU pushing them off track. The solution we have reached is the most appropriate for fun racing as I see it.

Yes, it is impossible to please every one, that statement is totally true. But i have had the AI do some pretty funky stuff around me. Unfortunately i have no video evidence for you on this but i can explain one incident at Oschersleben National starting in the corner before pit entrance i over took a BMW 1M in my Megane, that went fine i stayed on the inside he was outside of me as we darted down to the last corner. Turning in to the last corner we are side by side, he turns right into my driver door and slams me even further into the corner, i'm two tires way up on the curbs almost in the middle of the corner when he turns in behind me and drives straight on to the grass on my inside, there he slams my right back fender and pushes me out overtakes me and goes on ahead of me down the straight. Really wish i saved that replay so i could show it.

So, no it's not just about human behavior. The AI really do take some very peculiar actions sometimes. But on the other hand that is racing. And in racing shit happens. So i am not really complaining about it, just suck it up and drive on, exact sweet revenge in the next corner :D And secondly, the times when really weird stuff occurs are rare. And hand on heart, there is no game that has a AI where in some situation it just can't solve the situation, and go bonkers.

PeteUplink
11-05-2015, 16:48
I mean when im lapping, i get blue flagged when they do it but i highly doubt they do when im lapping..
Even when im not lapping and just racing normally i find this to be the case..

Apologies. IN that case I can't offer any advice as they don't move out of the way I'm afraid. Not yet anyway.

GDP
11-05-2015, 16:55
I kind of like the aggressive AI but it should be toned down a little.

I just had a more serious issue at the Azure Circuit (Monaco). In my LMP2 career the AI can't make it through that 180 turn down towards the tunnel. So after the first lap all cars were stuck there and I had to abandon the race. Also saw a lot of AI stuck towards the barriers in a 90 degree angle in practice and qual. like they were parking up against the wall. Seems they are not programmed to reverse out of such a situation. If I pushed them carefully to point in the right direction they drove away again.

heppsan
11-05-2015, 17:34
Yes, it is impossible to please every one, that statement is totally true. But i have had the AI do some pretty funky stuff around me. Unfortunately i have no video evidence for you on this but i can explain one incident at Oschersleben National starting in the corner before pit entrance i over took a BMW 1M in my Megane, that went fine i stayed on the inside he was outside of me as we darted down to the last corner. Turning in to the last corner we are side by side, he turns right into my driver door and slams me even further into the corner, i'm two tires way up on the curbs almost in the middle of the corner when he turns in behind me and drives straight on to the grass on my inside, there he slams my right back fender and pushes me out overtakes me and goes on ahead of me down the straight. Really wish i saved that replay so i could show it.

So, no it's not just about human behavior. The AI really do take some very peculiar actions sometimes. But on the other hand that is racing. And in racing shit happens. So i am not really complaining about it, just suck it up and drive on, exact sweet revenge in the next corner :D And secondly, the times when really weird stuff occurs are rare. And hand on heart, there is no game that has a AI where in some situation it just can't solve the situation, and go bonkers.

Yes, things like this can and shall happen on occasion in racing.

But not every time you or another AI is driving beside them!.. .
That is unacceptable for a big title like this, claiming to be a sim!

Mahjik
11-05-2015, 17:47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBObFG_cYrM

Granted, I've been with the project for a while, but I've had some really good races with the AI. Above is a video I did just before the release for someone on another forum asking about the AI. As Ian mentioned, if you treat them like a human player, it is a better experience. There is a little area in which the AI will know your car is along side. However, you have to be in that window before turning into a corner or the AI will commit to the "fast line". To be honest, this is no different than a human player not using their mirrors.

I will say given how public racing is right now, I prefer the AI much more.... :eek:

heppsan
11-05-2015, 18:13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBObFG_cYrM

Granted, I've been with the project for a while, but I've had some really good races with the AI. Above is a video I did just before the release for someone on another forum asking about the AI. As Ian mentioned, if you treat them like a human player, it is a better experience. There is a little area in which the AI will know your car is along side. However, you have to be in that window before turning into a corner or the AI will commit to the "fast line". To be honest, this is no different than a human player not using their mirrors.

I will say given how public racing is right now, I prefer the AI much more.... :eek:

I don't think you need to rewrite the AI.

As you can see now on your vid the AI wants a whole car width to the other car, otherwise they go of track.

Lowering that awareness / comfort zone width, and make them hesitate before going of track
might do the trick!
And also tighten the cut track rules, give 3 warnings or something for going of track.
But cutting a corner should result in an instant drive through penalty!
And this should apply for both AI and player.

wilf
11-05-2015, 21:12
I've certainly experienced similar overtaking manoeuvres by the AI that others have shown here, cutting inside with 4 wheels across the grass (including the exact same move at Coppice corner, Donington), but that is clearly a favourite overtaking place for the AI (certainly in the Clios) and so you get to know where they're likely to try it and can prepare.

A key to preventing it is to ensure you take the previous corner (MacLean's) well to ensure you have good drive going along the straight to Coppice, so the AI don't get close enough to you to be tempted to lunge up the inside. If you don't take MacLean's particularly well and can see the AI behind have got better drive and are closing in along the straight, taking an early defensive line can help discourage them from making a lunge inside. Of course, they'll often switch to the outside to try to sweep past, but you can position your car to make that more difficult for them.

I've just had a fantastic 10 lap race at Donington with the Clios at 100% AI, starting from the back of a 30 car field. After making up a few places in the opening corners, I got done on the inside at Coppice by AI cars in the first 2 laps, but I then started to work out ways to stop them getting past there and had some brilliant fun in the remaining laps battling with them. My favourite moment was when one particularly AI car which had, for lap after lap, been nipping away at me, particularly at Coppice, finally got it a bit wrong there and ended up slightly overshooting the corner and hitting the gravel, costing him 4 or 5 places. I was able to hold off the other cars fairly easily for the remaining couple of laps, mainly by ensuring I nailed MacLean's. Never before has finishing 25th of 30 felt so satisfying.

DoodlesSWE
11-05-2015, 22:25
Speaking of AI Schenanigans... (and this time i had my camera with me :P...)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DYZbiZFsG0

Chin
12-05-2015, 05:00
I really only see one persistent issue with the AI behavior, dive-bombing corners. True that if you don't block the line, you gave up the corner (something I believe many don't understand). However, they are coming in from waaaay back, and when you do your normal turn-in(thinking they are too far back for the need to block) they are right in your back tire or off the inside of the corner. They need to have a better awareness at corner entry.

For those having issues with turning in on the AI, you need to move over on the track to protect the inside line and then the AI will not typically try to dive for the inside line.

menaceuk
12-05-2015, 05:50
Sorry guys but if you drive like a human I think we have some of the best AI ever shipped in a game. It's impossible to please everyone and yes they do get a bit aggressive above 80% but at 80-85% I'm having a wonderful time with them.

Respect where they are on the track. Don't assume they're going to just give way to you because you have a bumper inside them.

And yes they are occasionally fast off track but the alternative is they bash you or give up as it's normally YOU pushing them off track. The solution we have reached is the most appropriate for fun racing as I see it.

Sorry, Ian, but no.

The AI are trying to take lines that are not available to them. They turn into you mid corner.

Yes, we should drive respectfully and be mindful of the AI but the AI also should drive respectfully and be mindful of others on the tack and a lot of the time they do not.

I am playing the Xbox One version.

heppsan
12-05-2015, 08:15
I really only see one persistent issue with the AI behavior, dive-bombing corners. True that if you don't block the line, you gave up the corner (something I believe many don't understand). However, they are coming in from waaaay back, and when you do your normal turn-in(thinking they are too far back for the need to block) they are right in your back tire or off the inside of the corner. They need to have a better awareness at corner entry.

For those having issues with turning in on the AI, you need to move over on the track to protect the inside line and then the AI will not typically try to dive for the inside line.

Yes, that is a problem needed to be sorted out!
But they also need to have greater respect of cutting the track, both on straights and in corners.
And the rules should be harsher if we do cut the track, especially in the corners.
There should not be a warning for that, but an instant drive through penalty!

Have been racing the FR for a few races, and open wheels are outrageously scary around an AI like this!!..
Even if your thinking of giving them more room.

Here you can se an AI cutt the corner on catalunya, appearing right before me on the corner exit causing a crash.
This time I was lucky, and it was he flying.
But as you can see he cut that corner, and I wasn't even that close to him!.. .
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/715288874709628591/53A1FEE579DE42D8BD6D078EFA6CB12DDE8226F3/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/715288874709629043/5F74413AA01B2FA8A8C6F8B52715625AED4843C6/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/715288874709629497/99258AFBB7188BE2BAE848839B44604C0959B6D1/

Sankyo
12-05-2015, 08:33
This is a nice posting I found after this person was complaining about too much contact with the AI, and got some tips on how to treat the AI a bit more like human drivers:


Thanks for the replies. I've got a handle on it now, and it IS primarily my fault. As soon as I started using mirrors and being more aware of what the AI is up to, and as soon as I started respecting my own car as the potential death machine it really is (in the game world), it became apparent my problem isn't with the AI but my own driving style.

This realisation has really fired up my enthusiasm - I don't know where Project Cars stands compared to other PC driving sims, but in the console world this has to be top of the pile by a wide margin. Forza and GT don't even come close.

Racer4711
12-05-2015, 08:38
My biggest concern is the start of races.
Even on long straights (e.g. Road America) the AI brakes heavily - right at the start and during acceleration -, so that you crash into them (regardless how carefully and less agressive you are driving).

Totally arcade/unrealistic and frustrating as you have to restart over and over again, until you have a decent start.
This is a showstopper for me and i'm totally dissapointed, on how these small and for sure avoidable shortcomings survive beta tests as well as "quality certifications" and are obvious in a final product release (after several delays).

pandzer
12-05-2015, 09:06
This is a nice posting I found after this person was complaining about too much contact with the AI, and got some tips on how to treat the AI a bit more like human drivers:

I tested this yesterday in my AEC Season on Road America. I drove very defensive from the start and took my time even while lapping the GT4/3, LMP2 Cars and guess what ... makes much more sense now. BUT! There are (imho) still issues with them Corner Cutting (and i'd say they do this on purpose!), their traction on grass/gravel, pitting/changing tires after weather change and sometimes they seem to activate the afterburner in the last seconds of Qualifying and post unrealistic times (1:30 on Road America in the Rain? Yeah, Sure!).

JrJoonya
12-05-2015, 09:19
I tried Monaco GP in an F1 and spun. The AI just kept pushing me round the track sideways for 2 corners. It was funny but very unrealistic. The AI cant see what infront of them i dont think. Apart from that so far its been fun.

YDS55
12-05-2015, 09:27
Not only do they drive like mad man, cutting corners and pushing you, they also seem to be driving like old people (which means very slow) in certain classes.

dyr_gl
12-05-2015, 09:29
Ai canīt drive. Itīs been the same in the first 3 weekends of Formula Rookie. They brake far too late and get terrible exit from corners, so their pace is bad. If they are within 1 second they can hit you from behind, thatīs the only threat.

Someone suggested going defensive... well, I shouldnīt have to be defensive into a braking zone with a guy 8 tenths behind. In this game I have to do it to avoid being wiped out. I go defensive, they overshoot on the outside the corner by a country mile, and I get a huge gap again exiting the turn. Once Iīm out of their ram-zone, race is over.

Pablo2008jedi
12-05-2015, 09:32
For those who are complaining about the AI can you please post your AI settings?

There could be a bug with some AI setting/cars/track

More details can help the team 'fix' these issues. Stuff like "the AI just rams me off the road" doesn't help. Details help investigation :-)

YDS55
12-05-2015, 09:34
For those who are complaining about the AI can you please post your AI settings?

There could be a bug with some AI setting/cars/track

More details can help the team 'fix' these issues. Stuff like "the AI just rams me off the road" doesn't help. Details help investigation :-)

In my experience the A.I. is way to slow in the Ginetta G40 Cup, I have the slider at 100% everytime, but here it feels like it's at 30%
I did experience more corner cutting in the Clio Cup, on some tracks they have a ridiculous fast pace, like Snetterton and Silverstone.

menaceuk
12-05-2015, 09:42
For those who are complaining about the AI can you please post your AI settings?

There could be a bug with some AI setting/cars/track

More details can help the team 'fix' these issues. Stuff like "the AI just rams me off the road" doesn't help. Details help investigation :-)

I have tried many combinations, I will try to list all I have tried.

AI difficulty: I have tried 50, 60, 70, and 80. Mostly 60 & 70 though.

AI set at 60 in the Clio cup, Gianetta, G40 junior series, & the Formula rookie.

AI set to 60 & 70 in Solo events, on Wtakins Glen with the GR.A cars, forumula C, & formula rookie. Road America with the GR.A cars. Cataluyna in the Formula C cars.

Those are ones I specifically remember. There have been more, and on all of them the AI is woeful at times. I wish I had an active Live sub right now so I could post videos showing the AI just turning into me for no reason at all mid corners or on straights.

Invincible
12-05-2015, 09:42
I really don't have any heavy problems with the AI. To me, the are the best I've ever raced again. At least compared to some AS (artificial stupidity) in other games.

Only thing is that they're cutting corners occasionally, but mostly when there is heavy traffic and the track isn't wide enough. Yes, they sometimes have a rather erratic behavior, but then they are usually set too slow. Set their pace to match yours so you really have to fight for 1st or 2nd, then you wont see any major problems with them.

iv-tecman
12-05-2015, 09:44
Ha with all the issues I've encounter so far. Ai is not one of them... They fight you and I love how jf you overtake one you have to defend otherwise they'll come back at you...

Number of times I've won a position to then have the ai snatch it back.. I love the ai in this game. Behave well on track yourself. And the ai will put up a decent challenge...

Had some bloody good fights against the ai.

JrJoonya
12-05-2015, 09:45
For those who are complaining about the AI can you please post your AI settings?

There could be a bug with some AI setting/cars/track

More details can help the team 'fix' these issues. Stuff like "the AI just rams me off the road" doesn't help. Details help investigation :-)

Ok. Monaco GP Formula A AI 80
AI push me around the track (not exaggerating) after spinning sideways as if they cant see that im there.

dyr_gl
12-05-2015, 09:49
For those who are complaining about the AI can you please post your AI settings?

There could be a bug with some AI setting/cars/track

More details can help the team 'fix' these issues. Stuff like "the AI just rams me off the road" doesn't help. Details help investigation :-)

Formula Ford, first British weekends, 100% AI.

Oulton (donīt remember the layout used, Island maybe?): AI outbrakes itself everytime in the right hairpin in the end of sector 1. They get a very poor exit everytime after that running on the grass and over the cones. Then they proceed to do the same in the next right left chicane, brake too late getting out of shape for the chicane itself and also the next right hander too. That makes them slow but very dangerous to have behind. Rest of the track theyīre OKish.

Snetterton 200: AI outbrakes itself into turn 2, the right hander hairpin, getting a poor exit into the massive straight after it. Then it does the same into that tricky left right corner under the bridge. Same for the very tight left hander into the start/finish straight. All that, again, makes them a bit slow but very dangerous to have behind.

GAT_Montana
12-05-2015, 09:50
I haven't read all the comments now but what is fact is, as long as you do no mistakes the AI works so real, its unbelivable! But....if you do any mistakes, break to early, miss the turn, come to close, than they are unforgiving!

Always consider, the AI in pC is there to win, not to take care about what you do. Sounds harsh but its part of the real life approach. May be, sometimes they should consider that there is a pedal in the middle called break, thats true :) I figured out that they prefere to take the grass than to do an emergency break to avoid a crash.

So before you judge the AI please check the replay! Perhaps it was your mistake what leads to troubles finaly? And sometimes it may be the mistake from the AI. Consider, the AI's are also just humans :D :D

dyr_gl
12-05-2015, 09:56
I haven't read all the comments now but what is fact is, as long as you do no mistakes the AI works so real, its unbelivable! But....if you do any mistakes, break to early, miss the turn, come to close, than they are unforgiving!

Always consider, the AI in pC is there to win, not to take care about what you do. Sounds harsh but its part of the real life approach. May be, sometimes they should consider that there is a pedal in the middle called break, thats true :) I figured out that they prefere to take the grass than to do an emergency break to avoid a crash.

So before you judge the AI please check the replay! Perhaps it was your mistake what leads to troubles finaly? And sometimes it may be the mistake from the AI. Consider, the AI's are also just humans :D :D

Theyīre actually handicapping their own pace big time divebombing into the braking zones the way they do.

riverreveal
12-05-2015, 10:50
I quite like the AI as opponents to battle with. Some things are a bit messy, first corners for example, but im sure it will be worked on.

I do wish however that the AI felt a bit more real in other aspects of the race. I dont always feel they exist in the same PCars world I do. Other people have made threads about tyre wear and also how good they seem in the rain and I echo those thoughts. The only time they seem to exist is when Im next to them on track and when points are allocated at the end of the race, for me they dont add the immersion needed to make the races really mean something. I have never seen other drivers retire or have to pit with mechanical faults or through crashes (the 'full damage' mode leaves a lot to be desired even for the player) Nor have I seen yellow flags (unless Im involved). I love endurance racing and was really looking forward to this aspect with the dynamic weather and time, but I currently have no motivation to set up endurance races as I feel like I am the only driver on the grid who would have to endure anything.

Id also love to be able to really analyse what happened after a race, what their lap/sector times were, what tyres they were on and changed into ect, be able to watch replays and change to an AI car to watch how they drive and how the race was won/lost.

I know the devs are meant to be supporting the game post release but will they continue to build PCars up or will it be more about adding content like cars/tracks as DLC? If they continue to build the game up then I really do think it will be a truly fantastic sim.

heppsan
12-05-2015, 15:51
This is a nice posting I found after this person was complaining about too much contact with the AI, and got some tips on how to treat the AI a bit more like human drivers:

I think this is a bad excuse, and an easy solution of the problem for the devs..
And my concern is that it seems as if the devs think they have nailed it already, and won't try to tweak it further.. . (hope I'm wrong)

I usually don't have time for MP league, and not much for hot lapping.
So for me a bad behaving AI is a deal breaker!
I don't play AC anymore because of the poor AI, and won't until it gets fixed.


I really hope you devs listen to the criticism and feed back about the AI and cut track rules, and try to come up with a solution!

As I wrote in another post, I don't nag about this just to bash this game.
I nag because I care!
I Just want it to be the best it can, so that we can enjoy it even more!

Cully
12-05-2015, 16:02
I really don't have any heavy problems with the AI. To me, the are the best I've ever raced again.
Really?

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/532893089798674766/9281A2BC31549338BAF325E8D34A7D6B400C1BCE/

Chin
12-05-2015, 19:26
Yes, that is a problem needed to be sorted out!
But they also need to have greater respect of cutting the track, both on straights and in corners.
And the rules should be harsher if we do cut the track, especially in the corners.
There should not be a warning for that, but an instant drive through penalty!


Don't disagree, but I was trying to limit the comment to the behavior of the AI, not the penalties associated with cuts/crashes. I personally see them as two different things. From my experience, it looks like most of the cutting is due to them realizing they are on a line that will not get them through the corner (I am there already), so they are trying to avoid a collision.

Chin
12-05-2015, 19:30
Really?

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/532893089798674766/9281A2BC31549338BAF325E8D34A7D6B400C1BCE/

Not making excuses....but, what do you expect when you put 40 cars on Monaco?! It just takes one car in front to make a mistake and everything backs up. Corner cases do not make a good argument.


...and to address the original comment, where have you seen better? AC? Nope; RF2? Maybe; Consoles? Haha

heppsan
12-05-2015, 20:53
Don't disagree, but I was trying to limit the comment to the behavior of the AI, not the penalties associated with cuts/crashes. I personally see them as two different things. From my experience, it looks like most of the cutting is due to them realizing they are on a line that will not get them through the corner (I am there already), so they are trying to avoid a collision.

Yes, but how about if they try to break first??..
Those cuttings they do is cheating, if I'm in the way they should go on the outside or back off!!
Alternately get a drive through if they go ahead with the cut!




...and to address the original comment, where have you seen better? AC? Nope; RF2? Maybe; Consoles? Haha

That it's better than AC and a bunch of arcade racers on console isn't really a flattering merit..
R3E, GSCE and Race 07 to name a few.

ffmercurial
12-05-2015, 22:39
First I want to apologise if the following has already been mentioned. But I'm not in the mood for reading all of the previous posts.
I really love the game but there are a couple of things that make me go beat my girlfriend up after playing. And she seems not to appreciate that.

-First thing is that when it comes to rain my car instantly starts to spin like a mo... while the ai doesn't give a single f... and goes for the fastest laps of the race without changing the tires
-Next thing is that sometimes in the qualifying ai comes up with lap times up to 30 sec. faster than they usually do. And tbh I can't compete with. I mean 1:40 at Spa on a gt3 car with the ai set to 70? wtf?
-The last complaint I have is the ai always tries to take the race line regardless I'm faster and passed them half the way. They just bump me off track.

Mahjik
12-05-2015, 22:45
-First thing is that when it comes to rain my car instantly starts to spin like a mo... while the ai doesn't give a single f... and goes for the fastest laps of the race without changing the tires

Make sure you have rain tires if the car supports them. However, it is known the AI is a little too good in the rain with some of the cars and it's been looked at.



-Next thing is that sometimes in the qualifying ai comes up with lap times up to 30 sec. faster than they usually do. And tbh I can't compete with. I mean 1:40 at Spa on a gt3 car with the ai set to 70? wtf?

Don't skip/simulate the rest of the session. This will create unusual times for the AI. FWIW, this happens in several sims, not just pCARS.



-The last complaint I have is the ai always tries to take the race line regardless I'm faster and passed them half the way. They just bump me off track.

The AI is programmed with the principle of "corner ownership". Unless you are 60% of the way up on the AI, it's his (or her) corner and they will go for the fast line. This is not all that unrealistic as many racing series use that idea as well. In short, if you aren't 60% up onto the AI going into a corner, back out.

ffmercurial
12-05-2015, 23:03
Thank you for the quick reply.


Make sure you have rain tires if the car supports them. However, it is known the AI is a little too good in the rain with some of the cars and it's been looked at.

I'm aware that I should use rain tires when it starts to rain but when I had my mandatory pit stop in the 5th of 10 laps and it starts right after it I have no chance to switch my tires again and end up on a good position when the ai keeps going. It's not about their pace in the rain.


Don't skip/simulate the rest of the session. This will create unusual times for the AI. FWIW, this happens in several sims, not just pCARS.

That is exactly what happend...so no further simulation from now on :)


The AI is programmed with the principle of "corner ownership". Unless you are 60% of the way up on the AI, it's his (or her) corner and they will go for the fast line. This is not all that unrealistic as many racing series use that idea as well. In short, if you aren't 60% up onto the AI going into a corner, back out.

Thanks for the advice I'll observe it. Like I said in my previous post I really love this game even though it's not perfect yet.

Mahjik
13-05-2015, 02:07
I'm aware that I should use rain tires when it starts to rain but when I had my mandatory pit stop in the 5th of 10 laps and it starts right after it I have no chance to switch my tires again and end up on a good position when the ai keeps going. It's not about their pace in the rain.

Yes, the AI is a little too smart on it's weather prediction and will start on rain tires if it knows rain will happen during the race. This is something they are looking at to see if they can make the AI not so clairvoyant. ;)

myheadhurts
13-05-2015, 03:39
How hard would it be to program an obligation to give the place back (both for the AI and also when a player does it), similar to what happens in F1 in real life? On the face of it seems relatively easy - if you go off the track and end up in a higher place than you were (say) 10 seconds ago, and the person you overtook hasn't gone off the track then you get a message on your radio telling you to give the place(s) back. Similarly, if the AI "cheats" to overtake you, you'll get a message saying "he'll have to give that place back, give him room and he'll let you through". The AI could be programmed to go at, say, 80-90% speed until that happens.

If you don't give the place back quickly enough you get a stop go.

ffmercurial
13-05-2015, 08:39
Yes, the AI is a little too smart on it's weather prediction and will start on rain tires if it knows rain will happen during the race. This is something they are looking at to see if they can make the AI not so clairvoyant. ;)
If that is true they should be slower in the laps before rain starts bc rain tires use to overheat on dry conditions

Bealdor
13-05-2015, 08:42
If that is true they should be slower in the laps before rain starts bc rain tires use to overheat on dry conditions

Rain tires performing well for a too long time in the dry is a known issue @WMD. It also affects the player, not only the AI.

ffmercurial
13-05-2015, 08:47
Rain tires performing well for a too long time in the dry is a known issue @WMD. It also affects the player, not only the AI.

depends on what they (you) define as far too long. when I start on rain tires and the track turns dry my tires start to overheat after like 2 laps or sth...

Bealdor
13-05-2015, 08:58
depends on what they (you) define as far too long. when I start on rain tires and the track turns dry my tires start to overheat after like 2 laps or sth...

I know that they're overheating quickly, but do you feel that they're loosing a lot of grip through this? I don't personally.

ffmercurial
13-05-2015, 09:05
I know that they're overheating quickly, but do you feel that they're loosing a lot of grip through this? I don't personally.

I kinda feel the cars understeer a little more but the grip is still good

robnroll88
13-05-2015, 09:47
Really?

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/532893089798674766/9281A2BC31549338BAF325E8D34A7D6B400C1BCE/

lol, I'm sure the World of Missed Defects will say you should be driving more defensive or some other excuse to defend the indefensible with this game, and @Ian Bell, please explain how we should "drive like humans" in this situation?

and @chin....40 cars??? its says p21/21 on the image, even if he had 40 cars knowing this could happen, why make it an option if the AI can't handle it? yet another sloppy oversight, my favourite one is not adding friends leaderboards to the biggest online gaming networks in the world, that the whole point of online gaming, to compete and compare with your friends, shocking oversight that 4 years and 80,000 people missed, laughable....

Umer Ahmad
13-05-2015, 10:35
Stickied the thread, this will be the primary thread for AI discussions going forward. Tell your friends.

BigWicks
13-05-2015, 10:39
Don't skip/simulate the rest of the session. This will create unusual times for the AI. FWIW, this happens in several sims, not just pCARS.

This is very unhelpful, we're well aware how buggy other racing games are, we would like to know if SMS are going to fix this bug in their game.

smoothherb
13-05-2015, 11:24
Only Problem I have with the AI is when it comes to weather. The Weather donīt seem to have an effect on them also did I read that they donīt Pit for tire change.

BigWicks
13-05-2015, 11:27
Only Problem I have with the AI is when it comes to weather. The Weather donīt seem to have an effect on them also did I read that they donīt Pit for tire change.

The problem is apparently that the AI is able to predict the weather and can start on wets if it's going to be a wet race.

Doug914
13-05-2015, 12:08
Thanks Guys. We're looking into this now along with the AI being too fast in the rain on race slicks. Kinda all related.

Umer Ahmad
13-05-2015, 12:29
(moved Doug's post to the main AI discussion thread)

WillisG
13-05-2015, 12:32
I am having a Problem, it may just be my led foot, but i had AI at 75. Went to zur Track day Event in Brands Hatch with the BAC Mono and Maximum i could drive was 60 kph. I am driving with a Wheel and everything OFF. I know it is hard to Drive in the Rain, and i have done it in other games, keep revs low and the gears high, but i could not keep up with the AI at 0 !!!

Another thing, how do i change to wet tyres before the race, i can only find wet tyres in the pit stop Settings

Thanks for any help

(mod edit: moved)

Scottien
13-05-2015, 12:58
I haven't read through the whole thread so excuse me for repeating if this has been covered already.

I also feel in regards to AI physics and grip is that their outlaps from qualifying and practice within race don't respect cold tyres. They seem to drive as if their tyres are fully up to temperature right away. Within outlaps they should suffer with cold tyres the same as us, swerve to try and get heat in them etc. The problem at the moment is that when I'm doing an outlap instead of concentrating on trying to heat tyres and get some good speed up through the last corner I'm trying to keep the AI behind me so that I can get a good lap as they catch up so quickly on outlaps.

slant6mind
13-05-2015, 13:44
Personally, I have found the AI to be much better than Forza 5 (my "go to" console racer). I would estimate that I get bumped by AI in Project Cars only about 10% of the time that I might get bumped by Forza AI drivers. I have yet to get hit from behind in a corner in P.C. (approx. 10 hours racing so far), which happens all the time in Forza. I also find that P.C. AI holds their line fairly well when racing door-to-door in a corner. The few times I've been bumped are when I have squeezed their established inside line in a corner. Of course, AI can always be improved, but my experience has been much better than other Forza thus far.

Lt_K4RL0S
13-05-2015, 13:56
Personally I think the AI are close to spot on. For those complaining about how on the first corner of a race the AI enter a major traffic jam - I urge you to simply youtube a real race and watch how badly the first few corners go with 30+ drivers. It's realistic that there's some jostling and bumping, watch a DTM race, it's ridiculous how many drivers are pushed out onto the dirt/grass.

As many have said, they're there to RACE. They shouldn't treat as you some VIP and open sesame whenever they see you. I find they're already forgiving enough as they attempt to distance themselves from me whenever it's safe for them to do so - I've often exploited this and forced them off the road without any contact.

The AI are very realistically programmed, not all of them are perfect or mindful drivers, same applies to you know, humanity!

Only issue - only - issue I have with them, is on the occasion where the AI are driving back on to the circuit after having been in a collision and don't pay any attention to oncoming drivers, thus leading to major collisions

NemethR
13-05-2015, 14:39
Personally I think the AI are close to spot on. For those complaining about how on the first corner of a race the AI enter a major traffic jam - I urge you to simply youtube a real race and watch how badly the first few corners go with 30+ drivers. It's realistic that there's some jostling and bumping, watch a DTM race, it's ridiculous how many drivers are pushed out onto the dirt/grass.

As many have said, they're there to RACE. They shouldn't treat as you some VIP and open sesame whenever they see you. I find they're already forgiving enough as they attempt to distance themselves from me whenever it's safe for them to do so - I've often exploited this and forced them off the road without any contact.

The AI are very realistically programmed, not all of them are perfect or mindful drivers, same applies to you know, humanity!

Only issue - only - issue I have with them, is on the occasion where the AI are driving back on to the circuit after having been in a collision and don't pay any attention to oncoming drivers, thus leading to major collisions

This is exactly what I think, and I want to add, that the Driving skill in rain of the AI is a bit over the top, that should be reduced.

murdi
13-05-2015, 14:51
Good Thread...

I think the game should check, if the cut was a "bad one", that saved time, or an accident, where the lap time is saved but a lot worse than normal.
Nobody wants to drive a qualifying on Nordschleife, if one small accident, that didnt cause damage or a grass fail, is responsible for an uncounted lap.

e.g. Nordschleife online community race: 15 Min Qualyfying. you can't do a timed lap when you failed your first after the warm up lap because there's no time left.
An option would be a qualifying with a flying start for tracks longer than x kilometres for saving the warm up lap. But that is against realism i guess...

Bodster
13-05-2015, 15:13
Regarding rain and the AI not slowing i have noticed in qualifying that if the session starts dry, the fast times are set then mid session it rains and the remainder of the session is wet but the AI cars improve there times. I will use the remainder of the session as a wet weather test but I will be several seconds a lap slower than i was at the start of the session as its obviously slippery conditions.

If it makes any difference this is on the ps4, apologies if this has been covered earlier in this thread.

caslad81
13-05-2015, 16:37
Sorry guys but if you drive like a human I think we have some of the best AI ever shipped in a game. It's impossible to please everyone and yes they do get a bit aggressive above 80% but at 80-85% I'm having a wonderful time with them.

Respect where they are on the track. Don't assume they're going to just give way to you because you have a bumper inside them.

And yes they are occasionally fast off track but the alternative is they bash you or give up as it's normally YOU pushing them off track. The solution we have reached is the most appropriate for fun racing as I see it.

The problem is not the racing IMO, it is with qualifying and practice. why when you are both on warm up laps should they smash into you as if you are not even there? and why should they be so much faster out of the pit lane when you have cold tyres and they are not effected?

Mahjik
13-05-2015, 17:17
The problem is not the racing IMO, it is with qualifying and practice. why when you are both on warm up laps should they smash into you as if you are not even there? and why should they be so much faster out of the pit lane when you have cold tyres and they are not effected?

Guys, one of the AI leads have already said they are looking into the AI cold tire behavior, the AI wet driving speed as well as the AI tire wear. Have a little patience as these things cannot happen overnight.

Tourgott
13-05-2015, 17:52
Formula A: AI much too slow on the straight / Slipstream too heavy
I'm racing on Monza (FA). As soon as I'm in their slipstream I can fly by them. But I guess they are too slow on the straight overall. Hope this get fixed soon, because with this even 100% AI is much too easy.
Thanks

Bealdor
13-05-2015, 17:54
Formula A: AI much too slow on the straight / Slipstream too heavy
I'm racing on Monza (FA). As soon as I'm in their slipstream I can fly by them. But I guess they are too slow on the straight overall. Hope this get fixed soon, because with this even 100% AI is much too easy.
Thanks

The AI doesn't have a special low downforce setup for tracks like Monza or Le Mans (yet).

Mahjik
13-05-2015, 17:57
The AI doesn't have a special low downforce setup for tracks like Monza or Le Mans (yet).

Along with this, the AI also do not use DRS currently. I have found with the Formula A & B's that to have a competitive race with the AI, I cannot use any of the added options like KERS and/or DRS.

Tourgott
13-05-2015, 17:58
The AI doesn't have a special low downforce setup for tracks like Monza or Le Mans (yet).

Thanks, this explains it a little bit, but I'm also on the standard setup, though. This isn't also the setup the AI is using?

Cully
13-05-2015, 18:13
Not making excuses....but, what do you expect when you put 40 cars on Monaco?! It just takes one car in front to make a mistake and everything backs up. Corner cases do not make a good argument.


...and to address the original comment, where have you seen better? AC? Nope; RF2? Maybe; Consoles? Haha

That screenshot is of qualifying when one car got stuck on his own and refused to move, i checked in replay.

Yes ive seen better in GSCE, a lot better, also in AC atleast i can go door to door through corners, only issue with AC AI is their refusal to pass out a slower car as in slower class, stick to same class cars and its a non issue.

Howie
13-05-2015, 18:38
Actually I think it's quite forgiving when I go off tracks as well..


Devs:
Watch the first corners of this vid and you see what I mean.
They do fine when on their own, but with cars along side them they freak out!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eD7o_f7s0Y

The AI act very human, and cut the track far less than the driver in this video. If the AI, who only cut the track once, that I could see, never did so. I'd blame the game for having lame acting race drivers. I thought you'd post a video with AI constantly cutting every corner? I've never had a problem with it.

SN1P3R SK33T
13-05-2015, 18:46
Personally I think the AI is pretty impressive. Definitely the most realistic I've ever seen. The problems I've found don't lie so much in the AI but that a lot of "rules" don't seem to apply to them. For instance, in the rain they can drive as if the track is dry, taking corners much faster than should be possible. Also they don't seem to receive penalties for corner cutting or aggressive driving. Again they have no slow-down in gravel traps. In the wet I have to halve the difficulty to get the same kind of experience as I do in the dry.

In the wet, I've tried to take corners at the same speed as the AI but it's just impossible.

Dman
13-05-2015, 19:24
For the most part I like the AI and the aggressiveness ( in most instances), my issue is with their decision making. This is more apparent at high speed sections into low speed corners (Snetterton at Murrays in the Clio Cup shows this the most). With the AI at 100% if I follow the car in front use the same braking marker use the same gear and corner entry speed (corner entry speed and gear taken from monitor w/ telemetry while watching the AI) the car behind 9/10 times will still smack me up the arse or send it up and over the kerb on the inside from quite a way away. What I think (I could be so wrong here it isn't even funny) is that the AI uses closure rate by distance instead of time when deciding to overtake. You need AI to use distance for driving side by side and to decide when to actually move over and overtake, but when the decision is being made to overtake or not during braking could this not throw the AI into thinking its closing in and should overtake instead of seeing the time difference at a given spot on the track? I should mention "The Accordion Effect" as to why it would see a closure rate while braking, I should also mention that this is me just having a quick thought and could be miles from the mark in which case can we have a aggression slider for AI please. :D

caslad81
13-05-2015, 19:25
Guys, one of the AI leads have already said they are looking into the AI cold tire behavior, the AI wet driving speed as well as the AI tire wear. Have a little patience as these things cannot happen overnight.

I do have patience, Im just pointing out the ai during the race isnt so bad.

caslad81
13-05-2015, 19:28
Along with this, the AI also do not use DRS currently. I have found with the Formula A & B's that to have a competitive race with the AI, I cannot use any of the added options like KERS and/or DRS.
Formula b has kers? I must have missed that one!

NinjaTrek2891
13-05-2015, 19:42
I'd be 100% happier if I don't have to be scared watching my rear mirrors. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWnQUUa51gE

Martin03
13-05-2015, 20:23
I really hope/expect that they improve the blue flag system. If you lap AI they fight you like it was a fight for the championship, no WAY they are letting you through...Guess its repported like 100times but still...

da5ke
13-05-2015, 20:23
Live timing inthe race. So you can see how mutch sec a car is in front of you are behind.not only your sector time ore lap time

Mahjik
13-05-2015, 20:29
Formula b has kers? I must have missed that one!

It has a "push-to-pass" system which is "KERS-like"...

caslad81
13-05-2015, 20:32
It has a "push-to-pass" system which is "KERS-like"...

Ah got ya, cheers.

caslad81
13-05-2015, 20:48
Any chance making the ai quicker? Especially the formula cars as they are pretty slow at most tracks at 100% Im on pole a Sakitto by 2 seconds and won the race by 50 seconds. It seems the ai are not very efficient at full throttle, especially on straights.

Mr Akina
13-05-2015, 22:33
Make the AI struggle with cold tyres and brakes too! I'm fed up of being smashed off the track on an out lap because they are on rails.

ManiacC
13-05-2015, 22:52
Not making excuses....but, what do you expect when you put 40 cars on Monaco?! It just takes one car in front to make a mistake and everything backs up. Corner cases do not make a good argument.


...and to address the original comment, where have you seen better? AC? Nope; RF2? Maybe; Consoles? Haha



on the pic you can see there was only 21 cars in Monaco .. like in F1 !?... no excuse for this screen

Mr Akina
14-05-2015, 00:19
Oh, and I've just wasted 2 hours trying to race in the wet... What's the point of including weather when it only affects the player - the AI continue to lap at the same pace, much faster than you can go, despite staying out on slicks! Project Crap.

rolandk10
14-05-2015, 00:44
Make the AI struggle with cold tyres and brakes too! I'm fed up of being smashed off the track on an out lap because they are on rails.

I agree. But this only is going to affect practice and qualifying. Races all start with everyone having pre-heated tires. According to the telemetry output, your tires start at 200 DEG F.

I know the mods/devs said that some AI cars are too fast in rain and they are working on it but I hope the solution isn't only to slow them down a bit but also actually make them pit for the appropriate tires. Without doing that, they all basically get a +-25 second head start since that's how long it takes a player to change tires. If they don't pit, then they should have the same issue I do. Drive 30mph or have no control. Basically, lose.


Live timing inthe race. So you can see how mutch sec a car is in front of you are behind.not only your sector time ore lap time

If you are asking for a relative indicator of the cars in front and back of you, it's there. In the HUD on the lower left there is a red and a green number above and below the lap counter. That is your distance to the cars in front and back of you.

Xterno50
14-05-2015, 04:18
So, the A.I at Oulton Park Island driving GT3's is super super slow. And they crash in the 4-5 corner alot.
I get blue flag even when i'm clearly being faster than my rival.
I was just starting my hot lap, and there was an AI driver coming out the pits, and i get a blue flag. WTF?
They don't give you room to pass when they are 'given' blue flag.
AI is very unconsistent depending on the circuit. 50% at X circuit, they are super super slow, and 50% in another they are super fast.
The AI brakes so early in some corners, and they don't accelerate fast enough.
Career mode, Clio, Donintong Park, in the last corner the AI is really slow, i can get gain a 500 miliseconds of advantage everytime. They brake too early.
Other that that the game is really awesome.

Off-Topic: When the Oval tracks come out, would it be possible to have more than 16 players on that track? i mean, why can't i play with my friend vs 20+ AI drivers? and not just 16..that's a low amount.. 16 real persons ok, but only 16 AI?

wilf
14-05-2015, 05:29
Donintong Park, in the last corner the AI is really slow, i can get gain a 500 miliseconds of advantage everytime. They brake too early.


Also at turn 4 (the Old Hairpin) at Donington they take it too slowly - too easy to get past at least 1, sometimes 2 or 3 AI cars there, on the outside.

Dutchmountains
14-05-2015, 05:37
Sorry guys but if you drive like a human I think we have some of the best AI ever shipped in a game. It's impossible to please everyone and yes they do get a bit aggressive above 80% but at 80-85% I'm having a wonderful time with them.

Respect where they are on the track. Don't assume they're going to just give way to you because you have a bumper inside them.

And yes they are occasionally fast off track but the alternative is they bash you or give up as it's normally YOU pushing them off track. The solution we have reached is the most appropriate for fun racing as I see it.

I agree 100% with that.
Its the best AI i had ever.
There's no game that have a better AI!
I have no problems with them at all!!!
Race as you should do in real live and dont take to much risk.
I see a lot players who are complaining about the AI but they take to many risks and get then contact with the AI.
Then its there own mistake not to wait for a better oppertunity.
Just like the engineer said....cover the inside line and they cant pass!!

Krobo
14-05-2015, 05:51
Having race some of the other sims out ther be happy they even try to overtake you .. :onthego:

AI are a sience in ther own .. something that takes true skill and patients to code..

you need an AI master mind to even come close to having good AI in a game ..

I want to thank the DEV's for having them be competitive ! I don't mind if they are aggressive, its better then passive ..

Try the AI in AC ..shees they apologias for riding your bumper :acne:..and they never try a pass ! they line up ln the train behind you .. seriously!..

RF2 has good AI ,and a few others but no game has ever nailed it ..its not easy ..

I give the AI in Pcars a passing grade ! lol :positive:

YDS55
14-05-2015, 07:43
Saying 'drive like a human' is baloney. I always drive like a human and I hate crashing or going of the track. I play iRacing and that game teaches you not to behave like a idiot, not that I need to be taught since I always drive fair.
The A.I. is okay to say the best, they are way to consistent, they always drive on the exact same part of the road, you'll notice it when you are driving behind 5 other cars they all line up perfectly on the straights. They cut corners like crazy, and even though they all drive the same line, they drive horrible lines, they enter some corners to late or t early and exit the corner like they are drunk.
Only in the Ginetta G40 cup in career you won't have this issue, because you'll never see them, they are super slow in that class, you already built up a one second gap from the start on 100% difficulty.

PS: Why is the game retarded when it picks cars in multi class races? I tried racing GT3 and GT4, but what I get is GT3, GT4 and some oldies Group 5 cars, seriously why?

Agerbech
14-05-2015, 08:09
My main problem with the AI is, that they are just super slow.
Can't we get a little faster AI for the career mode. I don't want to win every race like i'm playing Gran Turismo 15 years ago.
:mad:

djdavedoc
14-05-2015, 10:19
Hmm the AI... sometimes I think "Wow!! this is awesome" but then something really daft happens and it makes me think "what the hell!!". I made a video on day of release to document some Glitches and Annoyances that I have come up against (PS4 version).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbLLR3fAJ6E

vicdavery
14-05-2015, 10:25
I'd be 100% happier if I don't have to be scared watching my rear mirrors. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWnQUUa51gE

Oh come on. Let's analyse what happened there:
It is pouring with rain.
On a fast bend you run wide and put 2 wheels on the grass.
A closely following AI car is unable to avoid you as you're now going much slower due to the off.

I reckon you could find a whole bunch of real racing footage that looks very similar to this. For me I would say this is the AI behaving in an extremely human fashion.

edcwhite
14-05-2015, 10:36
When the guy on your radio says "put on the pressure and see if you can force him into an error" is this really possible? I have never actually seen the AI make a human like mistake as would be typically when the pressure was on (e.g. missing braking mark, spinning out, etc.) Would love to see an option to increase the probability that the AI drivers may make mistakes. At 80% I can run faster laps then them but in a 30-60min race I no doubt always have a brain fart (or two) and end up off track and always lose since the AI are just a bit slower but never mess up.

Axelerie
14-05-2015, 11:45
Hi project car designers,

Just have a question about the setup of a street cars and maybe in the future some more.
The Renault Mégane RS 265 doesn't drive and act like in the game.
Even it's a front wheel drive car, it goes at high speed in oversteer and not in understeer.
And the traction of the car is just crap in game. I have the car my own and i do track days at Zolder and my car got better traction than race ready BMW and i even beat Porsches with the standard tyres. The youtube movies about the car don't lie about it.
The Renault Mégane RS 265 is the best low cost stock car for the moment and best front wheel drive car.
If you want you can even go with me for a new setup in Game.
I just want to help you guys to make the best race game ever made.
ill go to Zolder on 20 mei and 24 mei to Nurburgring. i will put the imagry on youtube. just compare it once if you want.

Thanks for advance
and keep up the good work on Project Cars

jgaganas
14-05-2015, 11:55
[BUG] Don't know if this is AI or Career related... looks like some cars qualified on the same position (Career: Supercars @ Road America):

202308

tux1234
14-05-2015, 12:01
For me the AI in race modes is very good, sometimes they even make mistakes when chasing them BUT the biggest issue i have, and its been raised so im really just ranting lol is that in the wet weather they don't seem to be affected nearly half as much as me. Lost many races where its rained during the race and even when im on wet tyres they just fly past, sometimes even cutting corners to get past :P.

I think i have a non broken copy of the game tho, ive literally had 1 issue (steering locking), nothing else.

caslad81
14-05-2015, 12:04
My main problem with the AI is, that they are just super slow.
Can't we get a little faster AI for the career mode. I don't want to win every race like i'm playing Gran Turismo 15 years ago.
:mad:

I Agree!!!

jgaganas
14-05-2015, 12:30
[BUG] And another one: AI qualifies 22sec faster than P2 (Career: Group 5 @ Hockenheim Short)... Nice one Randy! :P

202319

NinjaTrek2891
14-05-2015, 13:24
Oh, and I've just wasted 2 hours trying to race in the wet... What's the point of including weather when it only affects the player - the AI continue to lap at the same pace, much faster than you can go, despite staying out on slicks! Project Crap.

My wet races the AI do adapt though.

NinjaTrek2891
14-05-2015, 13:29
Oh come on. Let's analyse what happened there:
It is pouring with rain.
On a fast bend you run wide and put 2 wheels on the grass.
A closely following AI car is unable to avoid you as you're now going much slower due to the off.

I reckon you could find a whole bunch of real racing footage that looks very similar to this. For me I would say this is the AI behaving in an extremely human fashion.

I do respect your opinion! But he doesn't lift or brake until he hits me... I go off cause the impact was quite severe and he moves on happily. :)

Mahjik
14-05-2015, 14:30
When the guy on your radio says "put on the pressure and see if you can force him into an error" is this really possible? I have never actually seen the AI make a human like mistake as would be typically when the pressure was on (e.g. missing braking mark, spinning out, etc.) Would love to see an option to increase the probability that the AI drivers may make mistakes. At 80% I can run faster laps then them but in a 30-60min race I no doubt always have a brain fart (or two) and end up off track and always lose since the AI are just a bit slower but never mess up.

I have seen the AI make mistakes. They will attempt to out drive you to stay in front, so if you run up on them into a corner (in a controlled manner) they can go a little wide and leave an opening.

Stig Semper Fi
14-05-2015, 14:45
I don't know if this has already been brought up because I can't be bothered to look through all the pages so anyway.

I, like many, find it strange that rain has almost no effect on the AI. But what I also find strange is that AI Formula A cars can use DRS through corners, as I noticed racing on Spa, but has no effect on them. It leaves you at a disadvantage and I'm sure you all know what would happen if any of us tried it so why is this a thing?!

NemethR
14-05-2015, 14:49
Sadly I have no idea how to record a race, to show you guys, but:

Superkarts, Oulton park.
The AI is constantly crashing in the first corner.
They try to run the curbs on the inside, and they crash into an "invisible object" on the inside curb.
Well, every lap 2-3 cars do that. This is at 100% AI.

riverreveal
14-05-2015, 14:49
Ive seen mistakes too, sometimes they have tried to defend their place and overshot the corner as their line changed. The more I race the more I've really coming to enjoy the racing AI.

Antiversum
14-05-2015, 14:50
My two concerns from a non-specialist so far are that the AI is in my opinion too good in driving on the grass after it happens that you and the oppoenent leave the track. They can drive way too good and too fast without making any donuts. The other point is that the AI leaves you not enough space. Sometimes you are clearly next to or even in front of them where a common human racer would know the position is lost but the AI decides to strictly drive straight away making it impossible to proper prepare for eg. corners. It seems to me if the AI is on their progrogrammed racing line nothing will keep them off it even though 3 cars are racing next to each other where one AI racer is clearly slower and should stay back.

Jan Studenski
14-05-2015, 14:57
Okay here my opinion to this "Cutting AI"-Discussion:

I think the AI of Project CARS is a revolution. I have never seen an AI that is defending and attacking that well.

All people that complain about that the AI sometimes cut the corners: Take it as a challenge to get away from the AI or to counterattack them in the next turns.

Mudman
14-05-2015, 15:18
The other point is that the AI leaves you not enough space. Sometimes you are clearly next to or even in front of them where a common human racer would know the position is lost

That is my only gripe with the ai too. When they would know that I have the inside line right before the corner (without divebombing) or would recognize me besides them (and don't swing over to set up for the next corner) I would have 90% less collisions with them.

twistedvaccine
14-05-2015, 15:51
Okay here my opinion to this "Cutting AI"-Discussion:

I think the AI of Project CARS is a revolution. I have never seen an AI that is defending and attacking that well.

All people that complain about that the AI sometimes cut the corners: Take it as a challenge to get away from the AI or to counterattack them in the next turns.

I know when i set an Endurance race, and im racing in LMP1 the slower GT cars don't move out the way or abide by the 'Blue Flag' rule and 9/10 end up taking you out (You can say time your moves, slow down, get away from the AI but when you have 10 - 15 other LMP cars on your tail and there's 20 - 30 other slower cars skittered over the track, every second counts((which is how it should be))) But it sucks when you're 2-3 hours in a race and they slam into the side of your car, however all i keep hearing, this is as real as possible so we cant have this, and we cant have that.. rule for one aspect but not another im beginning to find..

Dont get me wrong, i love the game and the AI is a vast vast improvement on the precession of the Gran Turismo games but to think that this is normal behaviour.. c'mon guys.

jgaganas
14-05-2015, 17:06
[BUG] And the last one for today (hopefully): 2 melted RUFs @ Laguna (Career: Supercars)

202383

Car is great btw...

For clarification: green is AI, golden is user controlled (whole race)

BMASTER
14-05-2015, 18:44
I had this one too, but I let the AI drive my car and it seems, if my car is driven by the AI this can happen.


I started the career with the carts and had a big struggle with the AI at 75% at first. But after I drove with the caterham, it got way better. Still, sometimes the AI do funny things, sometimes I do funny things and have to restart because of that.
But in the end, I really appreciate the AI, they behave pretty good and if I drive like I would drive in my league, I can enjoy the races.
The AI doesn't seem very human-like to me, but they are pretty good.

KK78
14-05-2015, 18:52
In the main the Ai has been ok for me, they have tended to respect my lines in most races and seem to avoid if you come up fast on them (usually by dramatically swerving into another Ai car:D) There have a been a handful of exceptions though where in a F1 Lotus race my supposed team mate cut the 1st corner at Zolder off the start and merrily flew off into the distance, I was snug to the apex of the bend and he went down my inside so why no penalty to him? Also in the same events how come the Ai seemingly feels no effect from rain on slicks when my car suddenly becomes like a polar bear on a tea tray on a frozen lake? And they are on slicks, and yes I can see they are definitely still on slicks.

Daffers
14-05-2015, 19:11
Noted i only raced touring, but after 20 100%races i still havent seen any ai retire. They have massive grip on grass and gravel it seems.
Did anyone else see retirements of ai drivers?

KK78
14-05-2015, 19:14
Nope I've not seen one and interestingly you mention grass, Brands Hatch Indy, GT3 race, one Ai broke free and cut straight across 'Grahams Hill' without seemingly dropping any speed.

NinjaTrek2891
14-05-2015, 19:25
I have seen the AI make mistakes. They will attempt to out drive you to stay in front, so if you run up on them into a corner (in a controlled manner) they can go a little wide and leave an opening.

Happened to me... and make sure you know it happens! If not.. they will launch you both of track :)

Xterno50
14-05-2015, 19:43
I think that most people is trying to pass the ai in places they shouldn't and the ai goea out fo avoid a crash.

g33k hack3rs
14-05-2015, 22:11
My experience with the AI has been fairly good. But I do all the preparations for the weekend. Racing with 80 AI so it might very for you. Overall I think that the few mistakes from me or the AI was regular racing incidents that seem very similar to any incidents I've seen with real human drivers. I do qualify high up so I'm not in the thick of things from the start, although, with pits and other strategies I have had my fair share of battles with the AI.

The only problem I've seen is when I went off track and tried to enter. Most human racers will be aware of slower traffic entering the track and avoiding the car but the AI seems set on the racing line bumping and crashing into the car coming back on track. Not a big deal as I try to enter when it is safe but an area that can be improved. Most racing done to date in career so not sure how this compares to online racing with the AI.

TehCrazehCatMan
14-05-2015, 23:24
Here's something i have found with the AI whilst on PCars (Xbox One Version).

There may be a possibility that the AI are impervious to mechanical flaws/damage. I say this after an observation I found when doing the 25hrs of Bathurst using the Mclaren F1.
I had let the AI run from lap 2 onwards for around 20-25 minutes, and the Oil Dial had remained at the middle for the whole time (or, at 90). I then took over, and within 2 laps, i managed to cook the Oil temp. up to 110 Degrees. Then, i allowed the AI to resume driving where for the next 2 laps, it remained at where i left it. As well as this, I also found that the AI seem to have issues with pit lanes. Here's the video to show what I mean, with and without Physics HUD


https://youtu.be/TKlpAoeTmeg
(P.S - Sorry for the clip being 10 minutes, but a 1 minute clip wouldn't exactly prove much?_

Any ideas or suggestions as to why this may be the case? Apart from that, the AI are OK. I cant seem to find the sweet spot. Even leaving the difficulty slider at 80%, they can be inconsistent, whereby sometimes, i have severe difficulty in keeping up with them, and other times i can leave them for dead... But this could be a multitude of other factors (Car, Track, In race occurrences, ect.)

madmax2069
15-05-2015, 04:05
Ok. Monaco GP Formula A AI 80
AI push me around the track (not exaggerating) after spinning sideways as if they cant see that im there.

I've had this happen a few times, spun out in front of a AI and AI hit me and continued to push me along like I wasnt even there.

This isnt my video but at @18 second mark is like what happened to me with the AI (pushes you like you're not even there, I was stuck in front of the car for far longer), but at least I didnt get launched into orbit like he did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIXgt8yZjQs

NemethR
15-05-2015, 07:07
In Snetterton, the Ai is way too slow through Turn 1, and in Turn 2...
I get almost 2 seconds a lap in the first two corners on them, other than that, they seem to be fine.

This is AI at 100%

Cheesenium
15-05-2015, 11:40
I think that most people is trying to pass the ai in places they shouldn't and the ai goea out fo avoid a crash.

The AI used to avoids the player like a plague, with the whole column of AI runs out of the track. There had been massive improvements since then, to be honest. It was designed so that it avoids contact with the player's car but it seemed like it isnt optimal yet.

Personally, I think the AI is pretty good. Generally competent and fun to race with but occasionally cuts tracks and a still a bit paranoid. A sudden movement with an AI beside your car will probably scare the AI off tracks.

CopperySinger5
15-05-2015, 12:22
Honestly, im happy with project cars Ai but would like to see penalties for them cutting across corners. it is not as bad as games that have bubberband AI where all opponents rams you from behind and bunch up in front of you in races; also boring when they stay in the same driving lane (drive club). but project cars ai drives more like real online noobs; i sort of like that, call me strange.

Fyren
15-05-2015, 12:48
i think project cars ai is the best ai in racing games i've ever had. No rubberbanding or stupid ai who follows the guiding line. You have to watch out like in real racing.
the only thing i have recognozed is, that there are very fast in rain, the drive like it's dry.

Duca Racer
15-05-2015, 13:02
I think it's the best AI ever developed, but need some adjustments. For example, they are ignoring the blue flag.

bluesky0870
15-05-2015, 13:23
I just want to report another "bug"...

whenever the weather conditions are changing during a race, especially from dry to rain or even heavy rain, career races are lost and ruined because of the fact that the AI goes on with the same speed like on rails and without any need to change the tyres while I am unable to keep the car on the track.
So I have the choice to become last because every opponent takes over with "normal" speed or to become last by doing a pit stop to change the tyres.

Is there maybe possibly eventually a chance that the whole pit stop system will be revised and the weather takes effect for AI cars too?
Or is this great feature another "exclusive content" within the 99,9% the game is stated as ready?

Umer Ahmad
15-05-2015, 13:38
(moved to main AI discussion thread)

Yes, it has been mentioned by the main AI progammer that their wet behavior is going to be adjusted downwards.

jhonatas
15-05-2015, 13:56
Did the first season in 125cc Kart, won the national championship three steps and then went to a higher league, five steps, I'm playing at 80% and won both championships.
I received 4 or 5 random invitations but did not get any contract proposal, I have to do now to race 3 hours Mclaren F1, and then other events for guests, but so far no contract for Super kart or something else.
ps. PS4!

YourManAdrian
15-05-2015, 14:32
I haven't really had any A.I. issues myself, aside from the weird thing happening every now and then. Personally I have never experienced a better A.I. in any racing game for a console. I really do wish they would fix the rolling starts though. Those thing's are an absolute DISASTER. The green flag is thrown way too early for my liking and for some reason I ALWAYS get jumped at the start by the second place car -.- I wish they could have made it so we're in control of the car before the green flag is thrown and if you jump before the green you get penalized or whatever. Hopefully they'll fix this soon.

Krazee DD
15-05-2015, 18:14
The only issue I am having so far is the starting grids are a MESS. (PS4)

Besides that they are gravy, im coming from Forza tho where the AI stick to the driving line AT ALL COSTS!

3800racingfool
15-05-2015, 19:42
After running multiple races over multiple courses utilizing multiple vehicles with the AI running each of the different "modes" (ident/same class/multi-class), I have to say the AI are actually pretty good. As has been mentioned, if you treat them like a regular human racing driver, realizing that they'll go for gaps that you leave them, as well as defend their positions (sometimes to their own detriment, hello dummy maneuvers). In essence, they're not just "on rails" and leaving the same gaps at the same turns lap after lap after lap.

That said, the one gripe I do have with them, and a tweak that I think would alleviate a lot of peoples problems with the AI, is brakes.

As it stands, it appears as if the AI drivers have no idea of this magical little pedal to the left of the accelerator who's sole purpose is to slow the car down to avoid collisions. Tons of the early corner (aka, 1st turn) collisions for me have come from the fact that I'm racing mid-pack and have to slow down a bit earlier to avoid crawling up into the car in front of me only to have another AI driver ram me from behind because it didn't hit it's brake zone yet. Another example: If the AI wants to be aggressive at 90 or 100 and shoot for a gap that's too small that's fine. But many a time they'll go for that gap, and instead of realizing that it's too small and they won't make it through at all (let alone cleanly) and letting up a bit to "fight another day", they'll just continue to cruise right through that 6 inch gap between me and the wall immediately sending both of us to the back of the pack (or cutting the track if there's no wall).

The best, first hand, example I can give though is this: Racing on the Cali Highway, I got spun (see the first example) in the first hairpin and wound up facing the wall only to have another car hit me in the side. Instead of using the brakes, and turning away from my car (as a real person would be apt to do in the real world thus making things more realistic) and continuing on, he proceeds to push me along the wall all the way to the second hairpin as if I'm some invisible deadweight before finally making the hairpin turn and driving off normally.

Other than that it's easily one of the better racing AIs I've seen in a game. They just need a little bit of "learning" so to speak on when to hit the middle pedal.

jgaganas
15-05-2015, 19:57
That said, the one gripe I do have with them, and a tweak that I think would alleviate a lot of peoples problems with the AI, is brakes.

YES, they don't slow down, they just change lines.

AI1 avoids AI2 but runs into me. Thanks a lot (glad that AI2 is ok)!

AI goes off track, but (of course) cuts right back into me (without any slowing down what so ever). Thanks again.

Happens: Almost every race (so damage stays off... for now) :)

Joethe147
15-05-2015, 20:04
I do wonder just how much, if at all the AI will be adjusted considering Ian Bell seemed happy with it early on in this topic.

Umer Ahmad
15-05-2015, 20:06
^Have you tried online yet, my race 2 days ago


http://youtu.be/ADcF_5cZrHs

lol, back to AI!
edit: definitelt they are too good in rain, that will be adjusted

madmax2069
15-05-2015, 20:21
The best, first hand, example I can give though is this: Racing on the Cali Highway, I got spun (see the first example) in the first hairpin and wound up facing the wall only to have another car hit me in the side. Instead of using the brakes, and turning away from my car (as a real person would be apt to do in the real world thus making things more realistic) and continuing on, he proceeds to push me along the wall all the way to the second hairpin as if I'm some invisible deadweight before finally making the hairpin turn and driving off normally.

Other than that it's easily one of the better racing AIs I've seen in a game. They just need a little bit of "learning" so to speak on when to hit the middle pedal.

The AI in a nutshell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiLj3MsLCrw

3800racingfool
15-05-2015, 20:23
^Have you tried online yet, my race 2 days ago

*video*

lol, back to AI!
edit: definitelt they are too good in rain, that will be adjusted

Online vs AI is apples and oranges. You're talking about a pre-programmed set of drivers (aka: they should all be roughly the equivalent of a competent-to-pro racing driver.) vs a bunch of people who are still coming to grips with the game itself let alone how to drive the complex circuits within said game with the myriad of different vehicles provided.


I do wonder just how much, if at all the AI will be adjusted considering Ian Bell seemed happy with it early on in this topic.

Changes or no, still doesn't hurt to have the discussion. The fact this thread is stickied tells me that it's something the dev team is at least monitoring.


The AI in a nutshell...

*video*

Yea... that's about how it felt. >.>

Umer Ahmad
15-05-2015, 20:45
Online vs AI is apples and oranges. You're talking about a pre-programmed set of drivers (aka: they should all be roughly the equivalent of a competent-to-pro racing driver.) vs a bunch of people who are still coming to grips with the game itself let alone how to drive the complex circuits within said game with the myriad of different vehicles provided
ah don't take my post too seriously. Yes you have a point. And SMS has posted here that at the very least their wet performance will be degraded so definitely the AI is NOT "final".

ManiacC
15-05-2015, 20:52
lol i did the test in Donnington Park National with ford escort race , AI at 80% on PC , the result for the first place in qualifying in the light rain is 1:17 .. and after i did a test on the same track with 80% AI again , with DRY conditions and the first place in qualifying is 1:21 !! lol please fix the AI ...

3800racingfool
15-05-2015, 20:56
ah don't take my post too seriously. Yes you have a point. And SMS has posted here that at the very least their wet performance will be degraded so definitely the AI is NOT "final".

No worries mate. Though, for the record, you're nuts trying to drive GT3 on Nordschleife online right now. :p

ManiacC
15-05-2015, 20:56
I bought this game only for a single player racing game ... i don't care if it's a sim or simcade .. i race in Rfactor 2 if i want to play sim .. but i tought Pcars would give me a nice single player game .. its the case but .. with the AI that are better in the rain .. i can't play this anymore before its fixed .. and why not just do a 120% difficulty.. just in case we want a LOT of challenge.. thanks dev...

Umer Ahmad
15-05-2015, 20:56
lol i did the test in Donnington Park National with ford escort race , AI at 80% on PC , the result for the first place in qualifying in the light rain is 1:17 .. and after i did a test on the same track with 80% AI again , with DRY conditions and the first place in qualifying is 1:21 !! lol please fix the AI ...
incoming (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23553-The-AI-discussion-(all-platforms)&p=906056#post906056)

ManiacC
15-05-2015, 21:12
Thanks i hope we will have this AI fix soon :)

LeeC2202
15-05-2015, 21:12
One of the things that first got me interested in game development, wasn't so much the player aspect, but more the AI that controlled the rest of the entities in the world. For years I've had a racing game in an infinitely long pipeline, that will probably never see the light of day, but one aspect I go back to every now and again, is racing AI. In that respect, when a new racing game hits the streets, there are a few questions I ask of the AI, to see how far it has progressed.

1) How fixed is the AI to the track?

We all know the GT syndrome, which means that driving into a car at 150mph results in the AI car staying exactly where it was. I think that kind of AI creates a false racing mentality because there are no penalties, just big rewards. So I was impressed to see the AI in PC be a true give and take scenario. If they bump into me, we both react, we both move and there's a risk. If I bump into them, the same thing, and I like that. That gives the AI a vulnerability which makes them feel more authentic.

2) If I give them space, will they use that space accordingly?

I did a race last night and went through several corners side by side with an AI driver, no contact through both left and right bends. That tells me that while I am sure they would love the racing line, they won't simply drive it. So they show a level of sensibility and self-preservation... I like that too.

3) If they're in the same car as me, does it react differently?

One of the most annoying things I find with some AI, is the magic brake and accelerator they are often blessed with. You're a few car lengths behind, you approach the braking point, you start to brake, they start to brake and you ram into them because their brakes are 10x better than yours. Again in a race last night, I was able to race round almost a full lap right behind an AI car and never felt I was going to ram it. That meant I could drive the track, rather than driving to cater for the AI... and yes, I like that too.

Is the AI in PC perfect? Not at all. Between all those good moments, there were crazy times with AI going high speed off the track. But you know, I watched the BTCC recently, and there were human drivers having crazy times, and going high speed off the track. I've encountered some ramming, some corner cutting and some erratic swerving with groups of AI drivers. But all that gets forgotten when I get to drive even just part of a lap, where I feel like I'm not just driving against a "follow the spline" function. I've only been playing a day or so, so as that progresses, I might see more craziness... but I'm also sure I'll have more great moments too.

Racing AI is incredibly hard to get right, even just thinking about how it will work will give you a week of migraines (it did me anyway :D ). As other developers will probably tell you, it's hard to play a game without your head being in analytical mode all the time. You spot the flaws, but you also appreciate when something is just that little bit better. And I have to say, for me, the AI in this is more than just a little bit better... or at least, it is in the Clio Cup races I've been driving. There is room for improvement, but there is also a very solid foundation to build those improvements on top of, and solid foundations are the bedrock for success.

The danger will arise if the sense of the AI being "pretty good" breeds a complacency that stops them improving it. I hope that isn't the case, I hope the devs of PC have the pride and passion that makes them want to improve it, no matter how good they already think it is. Only time will tell...

Umer Ahmad
15-05-2015, 21:15
^considerate write-up !

SMS is making the game FOR US. In the end if we want improvement/adjustments they will listen. We are their audience.

For launch, the goal was to avoid the "AI snake" or "funeral processions" so I think we can drop the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner on that. Are they willing to make adjustments from here? I'm sure of it. WMD people know about the previous AI tuning sliders, it was quite detailed about a year ago, truncated since. So the dials and software are there in the background, just needs some time/testing.

Enjoy what's there now, fight with them respectfully. Yeah, they brake hell of a lot better than me into chicanes and have magical wet/grass driving abilities at the moment.

TimN
15-05-2015, 21:53
Ok so I haven't read whole thread, but I've had time in game now. My personal view on this is that the Ai needs updating. I understand we should all give them more space and I understand people are not racing with them like real people, like ramming them out the way and what not. But I have personally been driven into many times, like when coming out a corner if I don't accelerate as fast as the car behind they just drive straight through me. It feels like they are programmed to drive the track at a certain lap time depending on the level of difficultlying, if I'm in front of them or not.

dantheo
15-05-2015, 23:12
ah don't take my post too seriously. Yes you have a point. And SMS has posted here that at the very least their wet performance will be degraded so definitely the AI is NOT "final".

It's not just their performance that needs to be downgraded, they need to pit for tyres when the weather changes. I've had a number of great races battling with the AI, which are subsequently ruined by rain kicking in & the majority of the AI pack staying out on dry tyres until the end of the race. Without effective pit intelligence, changeable weather is completely pointless.

Fixing AI performance during changeable track conditions, and sensible pitting have to go hand-in-hand. Fixing one without the other just won't work.

WadeOhh
16-05-2015, 03:31
Not sure if its been mentioned here, or in another thread or not, but it seems the difficulty is more track dependent rather than car dependent.

For example, I just did a 10 lap GT3 race at Donington (short) with 25 AI cars. At 100% difficulty, I was on pole by 1.6 second and won the race by 18 seconds (totally stock setup and not much track knowledge going in, although in reality, its a pretty basic track), but I think most of the time I was making on the AI was into the old hairpin (turn 4). I blast through there in 3rd gear, but its like they slow down to 2nd gear. They're really slow through there and I think most of that 1.6 second advantage comes from that turn.

However, I did the same setup race (10 lap, GT3, 25 AI cars) at Hockenheim GP, and at 80% difficulty, I qualified 18th and finished the race 14th, and I know that track a lot better. Suffice to say, the race a Hockenheim was a lot more fun

So it seems the difficulty setup needs to be tweaked for the tracks, not the cars.

pioneer1985
16-05-2015, 05:38
I have not started a career yet as waiting for these patch's to arrive to hopefully improve things. But one thing that concerns me with career is that I have heard the AI is lower than the difficulty you select in the early stages. I would like the option to have this hidden lower difficulty removed as I would like a challenge from the off with my chosen difficulty. whats the point of us choosing a difficulty only to have gimped AI forced on us.

Oh and please keep the AI as aggressive as it is now as its probably the best AI I have played against in a racing game. One more note when slightly blocking the AI coming up from behind (on a straight) they sometimes seem to break a bit too much and fall back quite a lot it would be nice if they stuck to you a bit more.

CTR69
16-05-2015, 08:52
So now I cannot proceed with my career as I'm stuck on dry-to-rain race...

Iwanchek
16-05-2015, 09:08
We need some factual data/evidence first before we jump to conclusions about the AI. Not saying that they're perfect, but IMO they do a great job in racing you in a human way if you treat them as human drivers and not as mindless drones that will let you through whenever you want it, no matter the situation.

You have to choose your moment for overtaking and you have to be clear about your lines, or they'll try and get you just like real-life drivers.

The AI are not doing laps, they're racing. They won't give up their spot easily nor will they be driving safely behind you until you let them past.

If you treat them like human racers and are careful with what you do and when, they're awesome. Not faultless, again like real-life drivers, but awesome nonetheless :)

Agree, but it looks like that all "real"drivers are stupid as hell....bīcoz, it canīt be that the AI rams u when you wanna overtake him, that he without looking in the back mirror switches side and when you like overtake one-two cars sudelnly one"human"driver goes in the middle of a track where he rams you or block you way!!

Itīs true, the AI are bit aggressive and stupid not smart and if u set difficulty on 100 theyīre still easy to overkake....

they need just a bit balance and be smart, bīcoz"real"drivers are smarter then AI in this game tho :)

Daffers
16-05-2015, 09:11
I really hope the devs priority is fixing the ai, with this i mean them being fast in the rain on any tyre and the tyre wear that doesn't seem to affect them.
And maybe the slow qualifying by the ai. Also the slow corners on some tracks, where they are so slow i can overtake 2 cars.

Does anybody know what the devs are working on now ? I hope fixing this and not creating more tracks and cars.

With this issues solved this game is nearly perfect!

LUFC
16-05-2015, 09:51
First off I really enjoy the game, and especially chasing down the other cars in front. Picking the right moment to take them, whilst not getting too close or I'll end up coming off track

In a lot of other games in the past i e been your typical console racer, win at all costs, I.e use the AI to slow me down, bounce of the barriers et ... However this game is different, I am trying to race clean and treat is a "proper race".

My main gripe is that whilst I do this, I often gets cars from behind hitting me all the time and forcing me off track invalidating track times and often I will spin out. Becomes really frustrating.

Lewisone87
16-05-2015, 10:56
Is anyone else having problems with the AI and blue flags. They just seem to ignore it even though I'm lapping them and racing for the lead. Im sick of having races lost due to this. I'm trying to upload a video on to,youtube but I've got a video, saved on my ps4

mister dog
16-05-2015, 11:04
They do tend to divebomb on the inside in places that aren't appropriate for even a clean overtake.
There is this bug that they can predict when it's going to rain laps later, and pit on lap 1 + in general they seem to have dry grip when the track is washed whilst we all struggle. This ruins practically every wet weather race in career mode like this.

Apart from that i think they are quite good, they are fast and do try to push you or overtake. It's just that the many bugs need to be ironed out (see above), collision model definitely needs some work, and they shouldn't do those banzai moves as often.

Rick Knapp
16-05-2015, 11:21
Unfortunately if you compile all the bugs, and general problems with this game it will be a massive job to get this mess anywhere close to what it was supposed to be. The more I play it the more bad I find and dislike and can't believe it was released in this kind of mess! With the AI topping the list of messed up stuff, I wish the devs well and hope they can fix the majority of the problems because I think it has some potential. With so many things to fix and SMS already working on PCars 2 I won't be holding my breath for PCars to ever be fixed correctly.

mkstatto
16-05-2015, 12:14
Monaco is basically impossible to have a race without damage or the AI braking at Lowes. Its awful there

Lewisone87
16-05-2015, 13:04
Unfortunately if you compile all the bugs, and general problems with this game it will be a massive job to get this mess anywhere close to what it was supposed to be. The more I play it the more bad I find and dislike and can't believe it was released in this kind of mess! With the AI topping the list of messed up stuff, I wish the devs well and hope they can fix the majority of the problems because I think it has some potential. With so many things to fix and SMS already working on PCars 2 I won't be holding my breath for PCars to ever be fixed correctly.

Yeah the AI is garbage and I keep having situations where you have to pit. They pit on the last lap and win. It's total bullshit. This game plays brilliantly but keep getting cheated by the AI. Regret buying on PSN now. Hopefully they can get things like drivers being punished for breaking the rules and regulations in there. It's not fun the way it is now.

karolski
16-05-2015, 13:11
Monaco is basically impossible to have a race without damage or the AI braking at Lowes. Its awful there

I really can't understand how to sell this game with this obviously not working AI.
One of the most famous Tracks isn't working because of the shitty AI.

PLEASE FIX IT...

Haiden
16-05-2015, 15:43
Sounds like you guys are playing an unupdated version of the game. That's exactly how the AI was behaving for me, before I updated. Haven't seen them behave that way since. In fact, they now drive exceptionally well--good at protecting, and also at knowing when to back off and give the line. Check and make sure you're updated, especially if you're on Xbox. If you install the game while the console is connected to the Internet, it will detect the patch, but won't install it.

Daffers
16-05-2015, 16:08
A question for the devs ! Are the ai drivers completely random ? I mean i restarted a season 3 times and the driver names in the same class where completely different.
It seems like they just create random driver names every time, also it seems that every driver can win, and they are all just as good, meaning that we have different winners every race!
This kind off breaks the whole career idea, meaning just averaging around 6th place will already give you the title!

Is it completely random ? if so, is this gonna be fixed ?

maTech
16-05-2015, 16:32
It would be awesome if slower cars would take notice of the blue flags. Thats the only thing that annoys me with the ai especially in endurance races.

Pirategenius
16-05-2015, 16:48
Only issue I have with the AI is the way they ignore Blue flags, and refuse to get out of the way when your lapping them. Otherwise its okay. just don't treat the AI like bots on rails. They sort of act human so treat the AI like a human driver. So if you bump him he will bump you back, If you force him off , if he gets a chance he will pay you back.
Yes sometime there is carnage but who hasn't seen the same in multiplayer 1st corner carnage.

SO give the Dev's a break and live with the AI as it is, and remember respect the AI and the AI may do the same. Highly unlikely but it just might.

mister dog
16-05-2015, 17:37
It would be awesome if slower cars would take notice of the blue flags. Thats the only thing that annoys me with the ai especially in endurance races.

Indeed, couple of times i was on a flying lap and a bot that just came out of the pits kept holding the driving line for a couple of corners...

Gimpymoo
16-05-2015, 21:34
There needs to be a "gentleman" AI mode. You allow the player to play the game as they wish, not dictate to them how they should enjoy the game.

It is not like pCARS is the first game to have AI. We have all seen better. Can someone name something the pCARS AI does which has revolutionised AI in racing games?

At the moment, seems to much like playing on pubs with AI on the track.

PropaneCrazy
16-05-2015, 22:11
The problem I have is lapping them, they never give way. You literally have to bump them and they jolt over

madmax2069
16-05-2015, 22:21
It seems like every AI car freaks out really easy (even if its another AI next to them) and they end up scattering about the track like roaches do when you turn on a light, you can even pass them cleanly and they still freak out 9 times out of 10 and go off track, the same goes for a slight tap on their rear bumper (they like to slow down or brake check you when you do slightly tap them). Its like they just got their license and immediately hit the track (im not saying its always the case).

They love cutting the track with no effect (keeping their speed, and not getting penalized for it), try to fit through spaces they cant fit though. They completely ignore you if you're stuck in front of theor car and continue trying to drive like nothing happened. Dont get over if they're being lapped.

Gimpymoo
16-05-2015, 22:36
Why with soo much AI feedback flying around the community, youtubers etc has nothing been said?

Do SMS believe the AI we have is the best it is going to get?

LeeC2202
16-05-2015, 23:58
Can someone name something the pCARS AI does which has revolutionised AI in racing games?

I think the days of *revolutionary* advances in Racing AI are probably over, everything now is more an evolution of processes that are already there... and that applies to all games, not just pCARS. Spatial awareness with relative track positioning, situation awareness, imperfect driving, varying aggression factors, pressure induced mistakes etc... have all been done. Now it's about doing them better, so we're just going to get evolutionary advances.

I think the last real revolutions were cases like Geoff Crammond's GP series, when they introduced single seat multi-player where the AI would drive your car in your style, while the other player had their turn, but I suppose that's not really opposition AI. Forza hyped up the drivatar concept and the self-learning AI, but the game didn't really show anything that reflected that. If the claims they made about leaving XBox's on all night to race each other so the AI would improve were true, then I think they wasted a lot of electricity to achieve very little.

I think if there are any revolutions left, then one might be when we have machines powerful enough so that the AI run full physics simulations like the player driven car. I think that might change the way AI plays the game, because it would require a whole other level of AI thinking to deal with the feedback from that physics simulation. I think we're a good way off that point though because I suspect the time investment wouldn't reap the rewards based on user perception. The hard core racers would probably notice and appreciate it, but average Joe Public probably wouldn't be able to tell from any other AI. I mean, there are people who think the Gran Turismo AI is good... that's a hard sell right there. ;)

But who knows, somewhere in the world could be an enthusiastic AI/Physics programmer and racing fan, that might just be working on that very idea. Some of the best ideas can appear from the unlikeliest sources. Won't be from my computer though... as enthusiastic as I might be, that kind of thing is way, way, way beyond my level. :D

br444m
17-05-2015, 00:23
@Developers: can you please give us an ETA about when showstoppers like broken AI will be fixed?

In career mode especially the rain issue is ruining an otherwise great experience. I advice anyone who hasn't bought the game yet to wait until this is fixed.

Type R
17-05-2015, 02:13
One big problem is that the AI doesn't seem to react at all when you make a mistake. I don't drive perfectly 100% of the time, and if there is an AI car nearby when I have a moment of bad driving, I get torpedoed off the track. The AI should have a better braking mechanic when they see a sudden loss of speed in a car ahead of them. Instead they follow the racing line like nothing happened, and boot you off the track. Since the AI has perfect traction in the gravel/grass/swamp, it doesn't hinder them as much as it does you.

Another thing I find weird is that the AI has a 100% finishing rate. They are better than real world Formula 1 drivers. They always finish all their races. All of them.

Daffers
17-05-2015, 07:01
One big problem is that the AI doesn't seem to react at all when you make a mistake. I don't drive perfectly 100% of the time, and if there is an AI car nearby when I have a moment of bad driving, I get torpedoed off the track. The AI should have a better braking mechanic when they see a sudden loss of speed in a car ahead of them. Instead they follow the racing line like nothing happened, and boot you off the track. Since the AI has perfect traction in the gravel/grass/swamp, it doesn't hinder them as much as it does you.

Another thing I find weird is that the AI has a 100% finishing rate. They are better than real world Formula 1 drivers. They always finish all their races. All of them.

Agree with all this, especially the ridicilous amount of grip they have off the track is crazy. Also i saw in my ginetta career race, an ai car hitting the wall with 150k after he tried to bump me out while divebombing, only to drive on with no damage like nothing happened.
it was my teammate even.

Paprik
17-05-2015, 11:06
Even in the most hardcore rain settings (thunderstorm), when a real race would probably be cancelled, the AI simply does not give a single f**k. Their grip is beyond legendary as they drive the entire race in an absolutely perfect driving line. This is about as realistic as Jesus or unicorns. Their laps are barely worse than in good weather.

I think I'm a decent driver and usually doing well on 90-100% AI setting, but when career forces me to drive in rain, I just lower that sh*t to 0% and accept my destiny in 12th+ place. What a joke.

PunchRockgroin
17-05-2015, 11:18
I'm also having some issues with the AI, however a tad different. They bump into me, I avoid hitting them, but I've get a number of invalid laps because I'm pushed of the track by the AI. Extremely annoying.

Paprik
17-05-2015, 11:25
Oh, yes, the old hit and run. The best one that's happened to me was, when an AI bumped me into pit lane, which went to auto-drive, causing me to lose 35 seconds. Best tactics, 10/10.

Umer Ahmad
17-05-2015, 11:33
A question for the devs ! Are the ai drivers completely random ? I mean i restarted a season 3 times and the driver names in the same class where completely different.
It seems like they just create random driver names every time, also it seems that every driver can win, and they are all just as good, meaning that we have different winners every race!
This kind off breaks the whole career idea, meaning just averaging around 6th place will already give you the title!

Is it completely random ? if so, is this gonna be fixed ?
Yes, yes and yes. Random names, random finishing position means you can typically finish 6th or so and win the pts needed for the championship. Will it be fixed in the future? i dont really know but i hope so.

Umer Ahmad
17-05-2015, 11:35
We do have a statment from the Developer few pages back:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23553-The-AI-discussion-(all-platforms)&p=906056#post906056

Didd31
17-05-2015, 12:08
hello all,

First of all big Congratulation to SMS to bring us a real racing sim on the console support !!! ( i am on xBoxOne, full sim with TX-3PAPro wheel controler )

I found AI very innovative and fun, and i keep in mind that is a real big chalenge for devs to program racer AI like human racer and not only brainless robots ( like Forza and others ).
I found very nice the fact that is very dangerous to Pass an IA and resist to an IA behind us, => amazing excellent and very realistic

i just give here the default that i can see on track :

it seem that IA make time to refrech the position of a car witch just pass her, for exemple : if i make the inside to an IA to lose on turn and even if i am in front and visible of her, she doesn't see me, she rush to the apex and kick my rear tire with her front wheel. It's like she had 50years old's reflex ( like me haha ) . This problem is often with nervous open-wheels.
I dont know if the SMS's IA have a parameters to adjust the speed of them reflexes, if it's the case, perhaps it's need to reduce response time.

their number on track is it significant ? ( i use 19 IA for the xBoxOne )

IA seem also too bold for making the inside while entering corner.

i had also some collision (but it's my fault) with IA on my inside or outside, with the helmet view i do not hear them engine, she is not on my rear view, on my rear-view mirrors, and i don't know on what side is she.

No matter for me if IA sometime cut the corners, human players do the same thing, We cannot blame this realism.

thank for our reading , sorry if my english has some mistakes.

mkstatto
17-05-2015, 13:42
Sounds like you guys are playing an unupdated version of the game. That's exactly how the AI was behaving for me, before I updated. Haven't seen them behave that way since. In fact, they now drive exceptionally well--good at protecting, and also at knowing when to back off and give the line. Check and make sure you're updated, especially if you're on Xbox. If you install the game while the console is connected to the Internet, it will detect the patch, but won't install it.

Mine is very much patched up, it may be that the Xbox version should have not been released for another 6 months as other systems seem to be having more fun.

Failrunner
17-05-2015, 15:32
The a.i. likes to plow through me. Oh and driving in the pouring rain when I can't see anything out the window is kinda stupid btw.

CrustyA
17-05-2015, 16:56
the thing i've noticed a few times recently is AI limping around with damaged cars clogging up the track after a few laps.
Both times were doing a quick race weekend 10 laps. with full damage, fuel/tire usage on.

one at Bathurst no qualifying and set to mid pack.
and one at Brands Hatch with qualifying. I did notice AI cars coming in and leaving the pits, but it's almost as if the pitstop wasnt repairing their cars at all and the continue to poke around the track with sparks flying off.

The bathhurst race showed strange behavior towards the end where AI cars were piling up near the pit entrance:
203136

Noksi
17-05-2015, 19:33
Over at Empty Box youtube video previewing pCars I was told the AI is so bad/broken that starting a career in Formula Rookie is unplayable as the AI is so bad that you can't even finish the 1st race with damage enabled.

Judge for yourself:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkw4RuKejb0

Devs/Ian Bell: please don't change the AI, make them a little faster for the aliens amongst us, maybe even 2 sliders, one for their speed, one for how aggressive they act.

Sure, there are issues like the constant T1 pileup at Monaco in f.e. a Clio. Also I noticed the car direct behind me getting into a little jiggle coming out of the last corner leading to the tunnel which makes them impossible to get close enoug to try a pass there in the Clio and it's only the car directly behind me, others don't seem to do that.

Also at LeMans in LMP1 they brake at the last corner of the Porsche curves which makes it to easy to pass them (same in the Radicals as can be seen in the Empty Box video). Now I'm not sure, maybe they are on a low-downforce setup and not the default setup which might mean they (and we) have to slap the brake there but in that case they have to be must faster going down the Mulsane straights.

lacslyer
17-05-2015, 23:31
--snip--

I've had several good sessions with AI in various leagues, however I've also had noticeably bad AI at least as often, with it taking me completely out of Formula races multiple times. I think Empty Box's point was more that due to the typical nature of all of the Formula series, getting hit by the AI can completely end your race, making it more frustrating than in other series. Just because you managed to get through one race doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

The AI is dumb. It nudges you when it has no reason to (i.e. on a straight when it's behind you) , yet at times can maintain a perfect line through a corner with you beside it, wheel to wheel. It's obviously got it's good points at times, but there's far too many down sides to it that anyone who goes through a handful of races with it will realize.

ahhyeaa
18-05-2015, 00:32
There are 2 major problems with the AI that I have encountered.

1-AI are way too fast in the rain. I've heard a Dev say it's because they predict the rain and come out with rain tires to begin with so they don't have to pit to switch tires. That may be true, but even if you start a race when it's raining and you have your rain tires already on they're still way too fast. You have to drop the AI strength a good 20 points from what you play on when it's dry.

2- AI doesn't know when to pit and will race on their rims. I set up a race weekend at Brands Hatch GP, 20 laps, tire wear set to x7 in gameplay settings and AI set to 80%. The AI cars should've been pitting around lap 10, but wouldn't do so. I seen cars driving on their rims and still pass up pit lane. Some cars were going into the pits, but it was like it did them no good. I was in 20th position, then pitted and ended up winning by a full lap. About a 1/3 of the cars were still on lap 14 and the 2nd 1/3 were on lap 17. The top 1/3 were 1 or 2 laps down.

I honestly don't have a problem with the racing AI. I did at the beginning. If you jump on a track that you don't know well it can be a big problem, but if you're on a track that you know well and your able to put up consistent good times and have your lines down it's alright. They are aggressive and sometimes you have to give up your position.

JrJoonya
18-05-2015, 02:41
I had formula rookie cars driving on the grass as if it was the track

heppsan
18-05-2015, 05:12
Here is a review from Empty Box, watch from 14:11 for the evaluation of the AI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtvFNKmS3qs

RobMUFC1987
18-05-2015, 05:15
AI don't get penalties or lap times invalidated. I had a career race in Superkarts at Sonama. Some of the AI run wide at turn 2 but they all shortcut turn 3, they drive on the grass inside the kurb with no penalty to speed or lap. Also AI can go as fast in the wet as they do in the dry. For EG, Sauber C9 invitational championship. Had a race at Spa, 6 laps. I'm leading at the end of lap 5 by 2 seconds and it starts to rain. By the time I get half way round, the car is undriveable. I finished last and AI didn't get affected at all.

Weather changes affect the track way too quickly. In a LIGHT downpour, the track shouldn't be completely wet within 2 corners and the track shouldn't completely dry the second the rain stops

AngelBrow
18-05-2015, 06:40
Ok, im no great driver. But I usually race against 70%-80%AI. The second race of Vintage F1 in Career mode on Zolder was my first race that i noticed the AI in wets problem.
I even paused the game in a corner to see if they were using wet tyres from start ( went in to photomode). But they were on slicks. So after 45 min of trying I got feed up and changed the AI to 10%, I had a lead of 30 sec when it started to get slippy. How much did I win by? They were 20 sec quicker than me in the last half of the lap. 10% AI?!?!?! it was like driving on Ice the last bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL73PR5epwg

Check out for yourself.

The race after that on Spa, the AI were doing the same lap times in qualifing in the wets as in the race in dry conditions. Either they were super slow in the dry or they were crazy fast in the wet.

mister dog
18-05-2015, 08:13
Ok, im no great driver. But I usually race against 70%-80%AI. The second race of Vintage F1 in Career mode on Zolder was my first race that i noticed the AI in wets problem.
I even paused the game in a corner to see if they were using wet tyres from start ( went in to photomode). But they were on slicks. So after 45 min of trying I got feed up and changed the AI to 10%, I had a lead of 30 sec when it started to get slippy. How much did I win by? They were 20 sec quicker than me in the last half of the lap. 10% AI?!?!?! it was like driving on Ice the last bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL73PR5epwg

Check out for yourself.

The race after that on Spa, the AI were doing the same lap times in qualifing in the wets as in the race in dry conditions. Either they were super slow in the dry or they were crazy fast in the wet.

Just had the same shit happening here. Thinking of suspending my career until this gets fixed. I drive at 85% difficulty, go through the trouble of qualifying in front, driving 6 laps in 2nd position only for it starting to rain in the bloody 7th lap of 8. AI drives on without pitting and keeps on setting dry times!

I get passed and there goes my race. Bloody frustrating! I know the AI can't have the same tyre model as us due to the complexity, but then at least make sure their laptimes are lowered when it rains accordingly :mad:

I hope this gets patched ASAP as this is a gamebreaker for career mode.

RobMUFC1987
18-05-2015, 08:31
I think they should hotfix it so weather isn't scripted/random until they fix it

Querer
18-05-2015, 08:43
I second this rain issue: how the AI continues to drive as soon as it starts raining is simply wrong. And I honestly have no clue how the Devs could miss this point. I mean, as soon as you decide to have a dynamic wheater engine including rain in your game, the most obvious and almost only AI relevant point is: the AI needs to get slower as soon as the track is wet. NO matter whether they use tires for wet or dry conditions, the AI needs to be slower. How such a simple, obvious fact can be ignored by the Devs in the release version is absolutely not understandable...

Anyway, for the moment I hope that it does not rain in my races, but I really hope that this issue will be fixed. Due to a second fact: sometimes the weatherforecast does not show any rain and then, when it starts raining, I need to box to change tires while the AI simply goes on. Ridiculous...

Kepagt
18-05-2015, 08:58
I wish that I could adjust the AI ​​gradually. Now I can adjust it to only ten places at a time In ps4!

RobMUFC1987
18-05-2015, 09:10
I wish that I could adjust the AI ​​gradually. Now I can adjust it to only ten places at a time In ps4!

Me too. I race on 80% most of the time, but sometimes the AI are too fast or too slow. My career would be perfect if I could select between 75% and 85% because at the moment, 70 is way too slow and 90% well I have tried 90 yet

AngelBrow
18-05-2015, 09:13
Yea, this rain issue is the biggest flaw in the game (and the invisible wall on le mans 24h going out of the pits) I really want to do the long races. But with this issue... hell no. If i start a new lap of the norschleife and it starts raining. After 1/3 or 1/4 of the lap it will be slippy. You will have to struggle all the way around while the AI just push quaily times. This is not right. For now I am sticking to online and just do short races in career.
I know that the AI in GTR2 on PC back in the day was the game breaker for me aswell. They never fixed it. Hope they do it here. (GTR2 problem was, after the first pit stop the AI lost like 20% of there speed.) Have great battles until first pit stop, then they were 3 - 4 sec slower than before per lap. You won super easy.

SmokinLion
18-05-2015, 11:54
I'm on my fast lap just passed the finish line when the AI comes out and it arrives behind me and I get a blue flag to let him go. What? :D

A bit later almost same situation but I arrived behind a car coming out from box and he does not slow down or let me pass by, nooo, he pushes even harder just to f...up my hot lap.

Terrible AI and terrible mistakes from SMS

PeteUplink
18-05-2015, 13:56
I think the driving AI works great on this game for touring cars and other closed wheel races where contact is the norm, I can have some really tough but fair races in the closed wheel cars, but doesn't work all that well for open wheelers like Formula A, B and C. The AI always drives like it's in a big, solid, close wheeled vehicle, but it doesn't adjust it's driving style to compensate when in a more fragile open wheeled car, and will still try to lean on you in corners, nudge you from behind and weave about in the braking zones. Behaviour that in real formula racing would most certainly end up with damaged cars, penalties and possibly one or both cars out of the race. The starts are the worst and sometimes it can be a real lottery as to whether you'll get around the first few corners safely, especially at places like Monza, Imola and Silverstone. Even if you take wider lines to try and avoid the apex melee into the first corner, you often find one or two AI that will violently chop across into the side of you. If I do a formula race I find I usually have to restart 3-4 times before I get a clean start. Sometimes the lights will go green, everyone accelerates away and the car in front will suddenly slow to a dead crawl when we should be accelerating. I've had to resort to turning the damage modelling off when I drive a formula race because the AI is unrealistically erratic and aggressive in this category of racing.

RobMUFC1987
18-05-2015, 15:01
I think the driving AI works great on this game for touring cars and other closed wheel races where contact is the norm, I can have some really tough but fair races in the closed wheel cars, but doesn't work all that well for open wheelers like Formula A, B and C. The AI always drives like it's in a big, solid, close wheeled vehicle, but it doesn't adjust it's driving style to compensate when in a more fragile open wheeled car, and will still try to lean on you in corners, nudge you from behind and weave about in the braking zones. Behaviour that in real formula racing would most certainly end up with damaged cars, penalties and possibly one or both cars out of the race. The starts are the worst and sometimes it can be a real lottery as to whether you'll get around the first few corners safely, especially at places like Monza, Imola and Silverstone. Even if you take wider lines to try and avoid the apex melee into the first corner, you often find one or two AI that will violently chop across into the side of you. If I do a formula race I find I usually have to restart 3-4 times before I get a clean start. Sometimes the lights will go green, everyone accelerates away and the car in front will suddenly slow to a dead crawl when we should be accelerating. I've had to resort to turning the damage modelling off when I drive a formula race because the AI is unrealistically erratic and aggressive in this category of racing.

I'm not saying it can't be fixed, but thinking about it, this is the case. Maybe the programmers got lazy or its technically impossible in one game. I mean 80% of this game is some form of Touring Cars where rubbing is racing. So they programmed the AI with a certain aggression but then just put the same AI in to open wheel. Just closely watch the AI, they act the same whether they're in Karts or LMPs

Type R
18-05-2015, 15:34
AI don't get penalties or lap times invalidated. I had a career race in Superkarts at Sonama. Some of the AI run wide at turn 2 but they all shortcut turn 3, they drive on the grass inside the kurb with no penalty to speed or lap. Also AI can go as fast in the wet as they do in the dry. For EG, Sauber C9 invitational championship. Had a race at Spa, 6 laps. I'm leading at the end of lap 5 by 2 seconds and it starts to rain. By the time I get half way round, the car is undriveable. I finished last and AI didn't get affected at all.

Weather changes affect the track way too quickly. In a LIGHT downpour, the track shouldn't be completely wet within 2 corners and the track shouldn't completely dry the second the rain stops



I made a video to highlight the AI in the rain. I don't buy the "they predict the weather and put on the right tires" story. I'm pretty sure they are on slicks in the video, as the race started with no rain, and no rain on the forecast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECXZB3XZYfo

Umer Ahmad
18-05-2015, 15:48
I made a video to highlight the AI in the rain. I don't buy the "they predict the weather and put on the right tires" story. I'm pretty sure they are on slicks in the video, as the race started with no rain, and no rain on the forecast.
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23553-The-AI-discussion-(all-platforms)&p=919059&viewfull=1#post919059

RobMUFC1987
18-05-2015, 15:55
I made a video to highlight the AI in the rain. I don't buy the "they predict the weather and put on the right tires" story. I'm pretty sure they are on slicks in the video, as the race started with no rain, and no rain on the forecast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECXZB3XZYfo

I'd buy it if it was short races, but 5 laps at Spa on wets in the dry? The tyres would melt

Roger Prynne
18-05-2015, 16:02
......

Fre.Mo
18-05-2015, 17:15
I race with 60% difficulty, I am faster than the AI under dry conditions but very slower with the rain...

Ripgroove
18-05-2015, 18:17
My main gripes with AI:

1. They are far too quick in any of the poor weather conditions.
2. They don't put their lights on when it starts raining during a race making it impossible to see them in all the water spray (not that it matters because they are much faster than me in the wet, see gripe #1 above)
3. If I have to slow down for any reason like if there are slower cars in front of me or some kind of incident the AI behind me constantly ram me, they are not very good at avoiding me, even if I slow down gradually.
4. They are very quick to come up on the inside of a bend and ram me in the side, again they are not very good at either holding back and sticking to their line or waiting for the right time to pass, all they see is a slower car in front so they just see red and decide that they must smash through it no matter what.

If I turn the AI slider down the only thing that happens is I qualify on pole and win races easily, if I turn the slider back up so I'm racing in the pack all the time the Terminator AI will just assassinate me at some point throughout the race so I can't really win here, either I'm way out in front all the time or its a gladiator deathmatch.

Trux74
18-05-2015, 19:35
AI are good. Could do with them being faster though. Maybe increase slider range up to 120%

LADY GEMMA JANE
18-05-2015, 19:36
AI keeps ramming me at times

Ripgroove
18-05-2015, 19:37
AI are good. Could do with them being faster though. Maybe increase slider range up to 120%

AI are far from good, they do not play nice at all.

ahhyeaa
18-05-2015, 19:56
How in the world can the AI be broken this bad?

I did another race weekend at Nurburgring GP: AI 80% difficulty, 20 laps, tire wear x7 in gameplay options, and the AI will not pit. I see cars going in, but they're sure as hell not getting tires. They're all riding on their rims. Out of 30 cars none of them could finish the race.

As it stands now, you can't race with pit stops and you can't use the variable weather system. This needs fixed ASAP!

Chin
19-05-2015, 01:08
Yes, but how about if they try to break first??..
Those cuttings they do is cheating, if I'm in the way they should go on the outside or back off!!
Alternately get a drive through if they go ahead with the cut!

Well, if they are already threshold braking...they don't have any more brake to apply. This goes back to my comment about race craft; I don't think many have experience racing in a crowd (not pointing anyone out, I don't know your experience). When racing with others, a big factor is predictability (go ahead and tap the brakes in the middle of a straight and see what happens, even to a pro driver).

Applied here; I get the feeling that the AI 'think' they know what you are going to do in a corner, but then you do something unexpected to them...derp, crash or a corner cut ensues.



That it's better than AC and a bunch of arcade racers on console isn't really a flattering merit..
R3E, GSCE and Race 07 to name a few.

I haven't driven GSCE, but the others are what I consider moving obstacles... So we disagree there. :chargrined:

Cheesenium
19-05-2015, 01:28
AI are far from good, they do not play nice at all.

Generally, they are alright to me with some occasional issues that ranges from cut tracks after overtakes, a bit of rear end collision at times, a bit too fast in rain, and they do get paranoid when you drive close to them.

The AI isnt as good as GSCE, rFactor 2 or arguably R3E AI(as R3E currently is facing a lot of rear end collision issues after physics update) but I think it is better than most games out there.

CrustyA
19-05-2015, 03:22
the thing i've noticed a few times recently is AI limping around with damaged cars clogging up the track after a few laps.
Both times were doing a quick race weekend 10 laps. with full damage, fuel/tire usage on.

one at Bathurst no qualifying and set to mid pack.
and one at Brands Hatch with qualifying. I did notice AI cars coming in and leaving the pits, but it's almost as if the pitstop wasnt repairing their cars at all and the continue to poke around the track with sparks flying off.

The bathhurst race showed strange behavior towards the end where AI cars were piling up near the pit entrance:
203136

Found out why the AI have been so crummy and broke in quick races for me lately.. I accidentally left tire wear at 7x from an earlier testing session.

When i put tire wear on "Real" i can race against the AI just fine in quick race and they're able to make a full 10 laps without breaking.

It seems when tire wear is at 7x the AI all pit early on and all eventually seem to end up broke with sparks flying off while slowly lapping around.

SIlMPLIClITY
19-05-2015, 04:35
Hi guys, after doing a lot of races with AI and some career races; I personally came to a conclusion that the AI is not affected by anything. What do I mean by anything?

-Tire conditions. Whether it's at the start of a race or the end of a long race, the AI run very similar laps (career and online). Also, what I once tried was getting all of my tires red hot and worn out before ending a race. Then I let the AI drive after I finished and I saw it taking corners like a breeze.

-Weather conditions
The AI has got to be using some highly advanced setups for all around weather. The AI is unaffected by weather whatsoever. It's a slip and slide for me, but for them it's a joy ride on a sunny day.

-Off Road
I purposely knocked some of the AI off road in career mode and online. What I found is that if you knock them off road they will either drive through it as if it's pavement, or slow down because they feel there is a faster car (you) trying to pass. The reason why I believe the AI is not slowing down because they are off road is because if you push them off road and peel off right away they will not slow down they will make their way back to the pavement without bouncing around or slipping around like you would.

-Rumble Strips
There are certain cars that once they hit elevated rumble strips, it's pretty much an instant spin-out. However, for the AI they can be driving over certain rumble strips and not be affected whatsoever. The best example for this is kart racing in career. I was absolutely shocked as to how fast the AI was going on elevated rumble strips in karts. I tried to be that aggressive and go on the rumble strips as they did and I either spun out, or flew off a few feet into the air. By elevated strips I mean the ones that are not completely flat on the pavement.

-Corners
The AI can go in really tight, but elevated corners and not lose traction. This section is somewhat difficult to describe because I do not know exactly how the AI takes these corners, whether they are throttling it through or letting it roll. I assume they are throttling it through because if I let it roll, then I lose a lot of speed in these corners. But then again, if they are throttling it through then how are they keeping it very tight and not losing traction?

I will add on to this list after I do some testing with other criteria. Also, if anyone responds to the thread with new issues I will add it to the main post (this). I will try to keep this thread alive as long as I can :)

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 05:18
The tyre physics etc only run on the player car, not the AI. (It would crush the cpu otherwise - someone correct me if Im wrong)

Patrik Marek
19-05-2015, 05:21
correct, AI is using older version of the tire physics, because if they all used the same as player, CPU won't handle it

these issues have been brought up, and we all hope for solution in the coming weeks/months. It's not something that could be easily fixed with changing 2 numbers
but it is indeed big problem for wet races as an example

JDFSSS
19-05-2015, 05:23
lol I have also done a lot of races with the AI, and I can confirm everything you said. "The AI is not affected by anything." That's a great way to put it.

Zzorrkk
19-05-2015, 06:31
In my opinion the AI allows for some great racing and is at least better, than in most other games. It doesn't stick to the racing line and sometimes behaves erratic - like humans below the best professional drivers would. The only thing that would annoy me is the AI not being affected by weather, but I've made no such observation. But I'm still playing with AI below 80 so maybe my impression can't be compared.

In the end the question is: what can you expect from an AI? My PC is very beefy (upgraded to latest core I7 and gtx980 three weeks ago) and as it seems the game uses all resources it can get... I don't care if their tire model is simple as long as the racing is fun and challenging.

But yeah, the AI is not perfect and still could use some tweaks.

Bealdor
19-05-2015, 06:52
correct, AI is using older version of the tire physics, because if they all used the same as player, CPU won't handle it

these issues have been brought up, and we all hope for solution in the coming weeks/months. It's not something that could be easily fixed with changing 2 numbers
but it is indeed big problem for wet races as an example

It's not using an older version (BTM), it'S using a simplified version of the STM. :)

Ixoye56
19-05-2015, 07:15
If AI is not affected by weather, what is the point of having the weather changes? for online races only then?
I have not started my career because of the controller bug (XB1) so I wonder (hope) if there's an option to determine the weather myself in career ?

thisisbleep
19-05-2015, 07:17
If AI is not affected by weather, what is the point of having the weather changes? for online races only then?
I have not started my career because of the controller bug (XB1) so I wonder (hope) that there is an option to determine the weather myself in career ?

The developers are aware of the issues with the AI and they will get around to fixing and improving them, be patient.

menaceuk
19-05-2015, 07:24
Hi guys, after doing a lot of races with AI and some career races; I personally came to a conclusion that the AI is not affected by anything. What do I mean by anything?

-Tire conditions. Whether it's at the start of a race or the end of a long race, the AI run very similar laps (career and online). Also, what I once tried was getting all of my tires red hot and worn out before ending a race. Then I let the AI drive after I finished and I saw it taking corners like a breeze.

-Weather conditions
The AI has got to be using some highly advanced setups for all around weather. The AI is unaffected by weather whatsoever. It's a slip and slide for me, but for them it's a joy ride on a sunny day.

-Off Road
I purposely knocked some of the AI off road in career mode and online. What I found is that if you knock them off road they will either drive through it as if it's pavement, or slow down because they feel there is a faster car (you) trying to pass. The reason why I believe the AI is not slowing down because they are off road is because if you push them off road and peel off right away they will not slow down they will make their way back to the pavement without bouncing around or slipping around like you would.

-Rumble Strips
There are certain cars that once they hit elevated rumble strips, it's pretty much an instant spin-out. However, for the AI they can be driving over certain rumble strips and not be affected whatsoever. The best example for this is kart racing in career. I was absolutely shocked as to how fast the AI was going on elevated rumble strips in karts. I tried to be that aggressive and go on the rumble strips as they did and I either spun out, or flew off a few feet into the air. By elevated strips I mean the ones that are not completely flat on the pavement.

-Corners
The AI can go in really tight, but elevated corners and not lose traction. This section is somewhat difficult to describe because I do not know exactly how the AI takes these corners, whether they are throttling it through or letting it roll. I assume they are throttling it through because if I let it roll, then I lose a lot of speed in these corners. But then again, if they are throttling it through then how are they keeping it very tight and not losing traction?

I will add on to this list after I do some testing with other criteria. Also, if anyone responds to the thread with new issues I will add it to the main post (this). I will try to keep this thread alive as long as I can :)

I haven't found an issue with them in the rain, not sure if thy slow down or not, but I remain competitive in the wet. maybe this becomes an issue with AI above 80?

The going of the track stuff though, yep, I totally agree.

wraithsrike
19-05-2015, 07:37
If AI is not affected by weather, what is the point of having the weather changes? for online races only then?
I have not started my career because of the controller bug (XB1) so I wonder (hope) if there's an option to determine the weather myself in career ?

I agree, I wish I could turn rain off at least until the developers fix this.

Racing in the rain is only any good if all on the track are effected which the AI certainly are not.

wraithsrike
19-05-2015, 07:51
If AI is not affected by weather, what is the point of having the weather changes? for online races only then?
I have not started my career because of the controller bug (XB1) so I wonder (hope) if there's an option to determine the weather myself in career ?

I agree, I wish I could turn rain off at least until the developers fix this.

Racing in the rain is only any good if all on the track are effected which the AI certainly are not.

BongoKongo
19-05-2015, 07:53
The developers are aware of the issues with the AI and they will get around to fixing and improving them, be patient.
They have been aware of many of the issues long before it was even released & you say be patient? My purchased game was per-ordered long before the first release postponement so it took months before I finally got it.... I have been very patient thank you very much!
I put up with these drawn out release dates & cancellations because I was told that the DEVELOPERS didn't want to release a Glitchy or unfinished game...ppffftt.

Must have been a pig of a game a year ago then,, because it still has more glitches than you can poke a stick at.
Flying AI, Ghost cars & scenery, AI that you can drive through, and they can drive through you, Cars that float, half screen Fog & half screen black/ or white, drive straight through pit crew & cars, invisible walls on track that pop-up out of nowhere, inconsistent car performance & untouched setups change performance between qualifying & racing. No Tyre squeal most of the time & totally bogus handling 95% of the time.

So stop calling it a SIM,, because it's not even close.. It is and always will be an arcade boy racer with fairly decent graphics & handling & nothing more.

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 08:11
would you preferred they delayed it again then?

Cause Im sure if that had happened, we'd all still be here but with "why is it delayed again"....

wraithsrike
19-05-2015, 08:20
would you preferred they delayed it again then?

Cause Im sure if that had happened, we'd all still be here but with "why is it delayed again"....

Wouldn't sooner it had been delayed again no, but to be fair there are same real issues that really should of been picked up on before release.

The wet not effecting the AI makes racing them pointless so why have the rain?

The xbox one is riddled with problems and it's now come to light that it was never tested properly, that's just not really exceptable.

You cannot keep throwing the ole would you sooner it of been delayed again card, i'd of just sooner a realise date was never given and the game simply realised when it was ready which sadly it wasn't.

This game is going to knock the other titles out there for six that pretty obvious, but you cannot keep throwing digs at those that are not happy, I for one see racing in the rain pointless, trying to compete with the AI with cold tyre's again pointless, I'm battling with the over sensitive and messed up steering but I'm still playing and still trying, but not all have this mind set, and to be fair you can't blame them

CTR69
19-05-2015, 09:10
Hi guys, after doing a lot of races with AI and some career races; I personally came to a conclusion that the AI is not affected by anything. What do I mean by anything?

-Tire conditions. Whether it's at the start of a race or the end of a long race, the AI run very similar laps (career and online). Also, what I once tried was getting all of my tires red hot and worn out before ending a race. Then I let the AI drive after I finished and I saw it taking corners like a breeze.

-Weather conditions
The AI has got to be using some highly advanced setups for all around weather. The AI is unaffected by weather whatsoever. It's a slip and slide for me, but for them it's a joy ride on a sunny day.

-Off Road
I purposely knocked some of the AI off road in career mode and online. What I found is that if you knock them off road they will either drive through it as if it's pavement, or slow down because they feel there is a faster car (you) trying to pass. The reason why I believe the AI is not slowing down because they are off road is because if you push them off road and peel off right away they will not slow down they will make their way back to the pavement without bouncing around or slipping around like you would.

-Rumble Strips
There are certain cars that once they hit elevated rumble strips, it's pretty much an instant spin-out. However, for the AI they can be driving over certain rumble strips and not be affected whatsoever. The best example for this is kart racing in career. I was absolutely shocked as to how fast the AI was going on elevated rumble strips in karts. I tried to be that aggressive and go on the rumble strips as they did and I either spun out, or flew off a few feet into the air. By elevated strips I mean the ones that are not completely flat on the pavement.

-Corners
The AI can go in really tight, but elevated corners and not lose traction. This section is somewhat difficult to describe because I do not know exactly how the AI takes these corners, whether they are throttling it through or letting it roll. I assume they are throttling it through because if I let it roll, then I lose a lot of speed in these corners. But then again, if they are throttling it through then how are they keeping it very tight and not losing traction?

I will add on to this list after I do some testing with other criteria. Also, if anyone responds to the thread with new issues I will add it to the main post (this). I will try to keep this thread alive as long as I can :)

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/ef5886f5.jpg

That's why I only play MP. AI is broken, it's not realistic or fair, to compete against them.

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 09:25
Wouldn't sooner it had been delayed again no, but to be fair there are same real issues that really should of been picked up on before release.

The wet not effecting the AI makes racing them pointless so why have the rain?

The xbox one is riddled with problems and it's now come to light that it was never tested properly, that's just not really exceptable.

You cannot keep throwing the ole would you sooner it of been delayed again card, i'd of just sooner a realise date was never given and the game simply realised when it was ready which sadly it wasn't.

This game is going to knock the other titles out there for six that pretty obvious, but you cannot keep throwing digs at those that are not happy, I for one see racing in the rain pointless, trying to compete with the AI with cold tyre's again pointless, I'm battling with the over sensitive and messed up steering but I'm still playing and still trying, but not all have this mind set, and to be fair you can't blame them

I didnt throw any digs at anyone, thanks.

the weather is a completely valid feature and fully functioning, that works well in multiplayer, where its intended that *most* will *probably* end up racing anyway.
I can only speak for myself but in most racing games I find the AI lacking any general challenge anyway, and I never play the career either. To *me*, AI is irrelevent in a racing game.

As was already explained on the first page, the AI simply cannot run the same physics as the player car. Its impossible. It would bring every cpu to its knees from the top to the bottom, and the apu's in the consoles, IMO, are barely capable in any regard to begin with.

its already been stated, the AI are being worked on. Its been repeated numerous times that WMD had NO part of console QA, it was all handled externally by third parties hired by SMS, BN, MS/SONY. Maybe you should ask MS what went wrong with QA and how they missed it?

PC is already 1.3. Im not sure what version they are up to on consoles, but they certainly cannot patch them as quick as PC. it has to go BN, then MS/Sony, then you will get it after they all certify it. The patches are coming.

We all understand the frustrations. Trust me. I have friends who bought it that are just as annoyed, frustrated, disappointed. Whichever word you choose to favour. Just like here, I do my best to help them until the fixes come. Thats all any of us can do. In the mean time, turn down the AI, or back to normal (80) for the wet races until its solved.

wraithsrike
19-05-2015, 09:29
I didnt throw any digs at anyone, thanks.

the weather is a completely valid feature and fully functioning, that works well in multiplayer, where its intended that *most* will *probably* end up racing anyway.
I can only speak for myself but in most racing games I find the AI lacking any general challenge anyway, and I never play the career either. To *me*, AI is irrelevent in a racing game.

As was already explained on the first page, the AI simply cannot run the same physics as the player car. Its impossible. It would bring every cpu to its knees from the top to the bottom, and the apu's in the consoles, IMO, are barely capable in any regard to begin with.

its already been stated, the AI are being worked on. Its been repeated numerous times that WMD had NO part of console QA, it was all handled externally by third parties hired by SMS, BN, MS/SONY. Maybe you should ask MS what went wrong with QA and how they missed it?

PC is already 1.3. Im not sure what version they are up to on consoles, but they certainly cannot patch them as quick as PC. it has to go BN, then MS/Sony, then you will get it after they all certify it. The patches are coming.

We all understand the frustrations. Trust me. I have friends who bought it that are just as annoyed, frustrated, disappointed. Whichever word you choose to favour. Just like here, I do my best to help them until the fixes come. Thats all any of us can do. In the mean time, turn down the AI, or back to normal (80) for the wet races until its solved.

The above post is completely erelavent, so the games ok as long as we are you, oh and only like playing mp, ( facepalm)

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 09:56
double post glitch wtf?

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 09:57
The above post is completely erelavent, so the games ok as long as we are you, oh and only like playing mp, ( facepalm)

Cause thats what I said. :rolleyes: Dont put words into my mouth.

You have a work around, you know why they dont, not sure what else your after.