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DozUK
11-05-2015, 13:21
Please see career race replay from the Clio cup, jump forward to 2 mins 15 seconds and watch the AI control car blatantly cut through the corner and overtake me. This was the 2nd time in the race, the same car also did it on 55 seconds but it was bigger cut the 2nd time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kSxQZVYroWY

Ha, I except that I took advantage of a cut at the end of the race (broke a little bit too late) but he did it twice! ha I wasn't going to get beat by a cheating AI (I can see the irony in this)

Clio Cup Donnington National on PS4

OneBadHuskerFan
11-05-2015, 13:26
Not to excuse the cutting but you did leave the inside completely wide open and it looks like the AI took advantage. If you don't want that happening you might want to watch your mirrors.

DozUK
11-05-2015, 13:41
Not to excuse the cutting but you did leave the inside completely wide open and it looks like the AI took advantage. If you don't want that happening you might want to watch your mirrors.

Maybe approaching the corner I was wide but when closing into it I'm hugging the corner and the AI goes right across the grass. Pause the vid on 2.18, very funny but point taken

heppsan
11-05-2015, 13:56
Not to excuse the cutting but you did leave the inside completely wide open and it looks like the AI took advantage. If you don't want that happening you might want to watch your mirrors.

They do this all the time!!
And they should not cut the track to overtake even if you don't block every inch of the corner.. .
If the flag rules was better in this game he would have got a drive through penalty for that!!

This issue really needs to be fixed, I will stop playing it if it doesn't..

DozUK
11-05-2015, 14:39
They do this all the time!!
And they should not cut the track to overtake even if you don't block every inch of the corner.. .
If the flag rules was better in this game he would have got a drive through penalty for that!!

This issue really needs to be fixed, I will stop playing it if it doesn't..

That's why I highlighted video evidence, you can't really compete with this sort of thing

Gravit8
16-08-2015, 22:34
That's why I highlighted video evidence, you can't really compete with this sort of thing

All I noticed was you holding up the AI. Punted him once too. Serves you right. You realize your complaining about AI that was faster than you? He had one spot to get round you while you were much slower and he utilized it. I'm guessing you were not going to be to kind to him if he stayed anywhere near a line you could punt him. Certainly were not kind to him when he put a legit move on you.

And people wonder why the AI gets to drive on grass without loss of grip. Because that's where the player is going to punt them anyway. Not their fault usually.

AdM1
16-08-2015, 22:37
I've noticed AI cut corners a little bit, not had it that bad though.

Curious, do the AI not get a time penalty?

Bliman
16-08-2015, 23:47
The problem is not the cutting of the corner for me, you didn't give him any choice second time.
Although they use this tactic to often.
The problem for me is that they pay no penalty for doing so.
They drive on grass the same speed and same lines then when they are driving on tarmac. They don't spin out of control when doing so or lose any speed regaining grip.

Gravit8
17-08-2015, 01:04
I've noticed AI cut corners a little bit, not had it that bad though.

Curious, do the AI not get a time penalty?

No but neither does the player. So he could cut as well. Which he did for the win. They respond in kind if you activate a slot on there programmed responses. Fair is fair.

I should say allegedly. It's just a theory of mine. Probably a place to read up on it. But they do recognize how they are being raced and return favors in my experience and opinion.
a+ in my book.

gelfie
17-08-2015, 13:34
I believe the player did nothing wrong at 0:55. The second time is harder to judge from the replay angle.

The problem is that the AI in pCars are not using the same simulated physics as the player. As such they are able to brake VERY late and still make their corners.

This creates the problem shown in the video. Either the player has to slow down so much the AI will swerve to avoid (and cut the track in the process) or the player, even when he rightfully has the race line, will be rammed from behind, or have the AI turn in on him.

If the AI can not be forced to use the same physics as the player (for resource reasons, or whatever) then their braking distances should most certainly be lengthened by the developers to make them fairer opponents, and avoid these kinds of incidents at corners during close racing.

KK78
17-08-2015, 14:12
I had this in the LMP2 Le Mans Endurance I did last week, often LMP1 cars would cut straight across corners to get past opponents, I wish my Ai driver had done the same but instead chose to mince around the GT opponents until there was a gap the size of a football pitch :)

KK78
17-08-2015, 14:17
All I noticed was you holding up the AI. Punted him once too. Serves you right. You realize your complaining about AI that was faster than you? He had one spot to get round you while you were much slower and he utilized it. I'm guessing you were not going to be to kind to him if he stayed anywhere near a line you could punt him. Certainly were not kind to him when he put a legit move on you.

And people wonder why the AI gets to drive on grass without loss of grip. Because that's where the player is going to punt them anyway. Not their fault usually.

So the Ai is so clever that it can predict what the human is gonna do? I've heard everything now :D.

It's a blatant corner cut regardless of the events leading up to or after it, Doz may have been slower but that doesn't mean the Ai should go off piste to gain the place, if the game penalises us for doing such things the Ai should be the same otherwise we'd all be doing it :rolleyes:

Gravit8
17-08-2015, 21:00
I believe the player did nothing wrong at 0:55. The second time is harder to judge from the replay angle.

The problem is that the AI in pCars are not using the same simulated physics as the player. As such they are able to brake VERY late and still make their corners.

.

This is not a PROBLEM. It's a fact of life. In ALL sims. Every sim uses a series of tricks or physics enhancements/ driver aids to compete with humans. Always have.
This one just happens to go beyond that and include a few random slots of behavior that activate if you attempt to cheat the AI.
Bravo.
Now let all these under informed complainers keep bashing on something they can regulate themselves. Guarantee you can't replicate a video where that AI cuts the corner without a slow human in front of him.
Looks to me like that was the only corner had advantage on you. And you chose to block him there. And run him off course at your leisure. Pretty sure a human would treat you same. And you didn't deserve to win.

Schnizz58
17-08-2015, 21:02
You're right that they aren't subject to the same laws of physics that we are. But they should be subject to the same rules and penalties. And their physics should not include the ability to be as fast on grass or gravel as we are on the track. Otherwise, what's the point of even having a track?

Gravit8
17-08-2015, 21:12
You're right that they aren't subject to the same laws of physics that we are. But they should be subject to the same rules and penalties.

And they are. Dude posting this puts four wheels off at :23. Next lap at 1:45 in same corner. Every lap. Definitely activated the AI can cheat too mode IMO.

It's pretty easy to see the two illegal tactics this guy is using to piss off AI.
Four wheels across apron to straighten out rhythm section. Then punting or blocking AI to end of that section to stay in front cause he can't get braking zone right.

Schnizz58
17-08-2015, 21:13
And they are. Dude posting this puts four wheels off at :23. Next lap at 1:45 in same corner. Every lap. Definitely activated the AI can cheat too mode IMO.

I've yet to see one get a penalty.

Gravit8
17-08-2015, 21:21
I've yet to see one get a penalty.

Players are not subject to penalties vs AI?! Not in this video anyway. OP cut same corner for win. I fail to see the problem.
Or a better way to put it.
I have yet to see a video or info where a player received a penalty, but the AI did not. For same action.

Schnizz58
17-08-2015, 21:30
I fail to see the problem.
The problem is that AI don't get penalties and players do. The rules should be enforced equally.

Gravit8
17-08-2015, 21:51
Where? Show me the AI doing something dumb or cheating and I promise your likely to find the human he's playing doing the same. Have not dug my teeth too deep into this game yet. But the handful of kart races I have done and watched vs AI? I found no unfair penalties yet. No unbalanced AI cheating.

Schnizz58
17-08-2015, 21:53
Have not dug my teeth too deep into this game yet.
I see.

Bliman
17-08-2015, 23:31
And they are. Dude posting this puts four wheels off at :23. Next lap at 1:45 in same corner. Every lap. Definitely activated the AI can cheat too mode IMO.

It's pretty easy to see the two illegal tactics this guy is using to piss off AI.
Four wheels across apron to straighten out rhythm section. Then punting or blocking AI to end of that section to stay in front cause he can't get braking zone right.

To me it sounds like you are saying. That if you put your wheels on the grass the AI senses this and also gets the command to disobey the rules and overtake at any opportunity.
I highly doubt they are programmed that way.
Imagine if they did they still hold a unrealistic advantage.
They pay no prize for going on the grass.
You get your time stripped (sometimes your next lap to)
You certainly lose speed to the difference in grip and getting your car back in one piece on the track.
I think it is annoying me more because much more like in other race games you must focus and every movement and every second counts.
It gets so intense.
That the moment you see such moves or another car just slams you like you weren't there or some other bugs, you begin to react more like it is in real life.
Unlike in other racegame you care when you drive.
Not to say any bad things about Forza (Go Forza 6 :) ) but it feels a little sterile when you race offline.
So sometimes I see all those remarks about this game, it is because a lot off people that care about the game because it gets so real that they feel like they are really racing.
And these bugs hurt a lot more in this game unlike in another racing game because everything here feels more real.
Sorry for getting a little off topic but I couldn't create another thread for it.
Manuel

Gravit8
17-08-2015, 23:48
I see.

I've seen enough of the AI to know they can get over on most players. :p
And I have yet to see a video where they behave totally inappropriately. Besides a glitch like manaco or traffic jams that over whelm them.
This video exhibits behavior from the AI that I totally approve of and think was warranted.
Stewards would have penalized the player and AI wouldn't have to worry about him.
In the end. The AI forced player to cheat to win. It's the kind of win you settle for when cutting corners first. :23 shunted AI at 2:00? Or whenever. It was a good race between two players taking liberties. You with track limits and aggressive shunting/blocking. The AI at that one corner. That he kept pulling on you while you missed apex by many feet.

Gravit8
18-08-2015, 00:09
You're right that they aren't subject to the same laws of physics that we are. But they should be subject to the same rules and penalties. And their physics should not include the ability to be as fast on grass or gravel as we are on the track. Otherwise, what's the point of even having a track?

I think 98 or more percent of the time that AI spends off track is due to being shunted by a player. Or at random accident scenes. But it's not like they are getting over on player by running wide, cutting chicanes and hot lapping player to death. They're using stability control in situations beyond their control as a reaction. Not a persistent race tactic. Are they abusing rules consistently? ? I see no evidence of that here.
It's fair they get a break on grass or dirt. Wouldn't be there without the player for most part.
Would Be too easy to manipulate wins without talent by just running over and through AI.
How do you think the average human racer that takes poor lines, cuts grass or dirt, and barely stays on track can be competitive?. Aids. Why would you expect AI to be Super Human?

Schnizz58
18-08-2015, 00:31
All I expect them to be is fair. They aren't. They pass you in the gravel. They pass you in the dirt. They're too fast in the rain. They don't get penalized. I have decided that two can play that game. When they cut a corner and pass me, they get shunted. After all, they are just as fast out there in the gravel so why not? When you get some more experience playing the game, get back to me and maybe we can have a meaningful conversation about this.

Gravit8
18-08-2015, 01:04
All I expect them to be is fair. They aren't. They pass you in the gravel. They pass you in the dirt. They're too fast in the rain. They don't get penalized. I have decided that two can play that game. When they cut a corner and pass me, they get shunted. After all, they are just as fast out there in the gravel so why not? When you get some more experience playing the game, get back to me and maybe we can have a meaningful conversation about this.

Or you could post a vid of your complaints. :D
This one looks fine to me though.
I visit some other sites that would have no problem posting vids Of poor AI displayed in PCars. They don't. Because They can't.

lacslyer
18-08-2015, 01:05
I think 98 or more percent of the time that AI spends off track is due to being shunted by a player. Or at random accident scenes. But it's not like they are getting over on player by running wide, cutting chicanes and hot lapping player to death. They're using stability control in situations beyond their control as a reaction. Not a persistent race tactic. Are they abusing rules consistently? ? I see no evidence of that here.
It's fair they get a break on grass or dirt. Wouldn't be there without the player for most part.
Would Be too easy to manipulate wins without talent by just running over and through AI.
How do you think the average human racer that takes poor lines, cuts grass or dirt, and barely stays on track can be competitive?. Aids. Why would you expect AI to be Super Human?

You're giving the AI way too much credit. Just because you don't see it in your playthrough of the game doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The AI thread has plenty of evidence of routine problems people have with the AI.

Schnizz58
18-08-2015, 01:27
Or you could post a vid of your complaints. :D
This one looks fine to me though.
I visit some other sites that would have no problem posting vids Of poor AI displayed in PCars. They don't. Because They can't.

I don't need to see a vid. I've seen it in the game.

Gravit8
18-08-2015, 02:07
You're giving the AI way too much credit. Just because you don't see it in your playthrough of the game doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The AI thread has plenty of evidence of routine problems people have with the AI.

Maybe people give themselves too much credit. And then blame the AI?
That's what's evident in this video anyway. Player blames AI for cheating twice, although he cheated like 5 times. Including twice to win. Put the AI in a bad spot you can force some things. He did.

lacslyer
18-08-2015, 02:15
Maybe people give themselves too much credit. And then blame the AI?
That's what's evident in this video anyway. Player blames AI for cheating twice, although he cheated like 5 times. Including twice to win. Put the AI in a bad spot you can force some things. He did.

As I said, look through the many videos in the AI thread and you'll see what people are talking about. Some people do blame the AI for things that aren't an issue, I agree. But there are without a doubt some legitimate concerns about the AI that have been widely discussed in this forum. There's a reason the AI thread is at over 100 pages, and there's a reason why people keep posting about it. You bringing your "insight" as to why some people have issues isn't helping, and is far from new "advice".

Gravit8
18-08-2015, 08:21
As I said, look through the many videos in the AI thread and you'll see what people are talking about. Some people do blame the AI for things that aren't an issue, I agree. But there are without a doubt some legitimate concerns about the AI that have been widely discussed in this forum. There's a reason the AI thread is at over 100 pages, and there's a reason why people keep posting about it. You bringing your "insight" as to why some people have issues isn't helping, and is far from new "advice".

Was always talking about the video and driver contained within this thread. I may go all monkey later and start smearing crap all over the walls about the setups or pit situation. But it surely won't be over an aspect of Of the game that the developer gave me the keys to and 100% control.
Take your complaints where they belong, the AI thread then. But as this one sits here with posted video. This guy got taken to school by the AI. And he deserved it for cheating.
I did notice nobody can defend him vs the AI. Video and pictures worth gold.
Your complaints are worthless.

Oh. Btw. One really important question for you?
Can you name a game with better AI and explain how it's better?

I find it absurd to come in here guns blazing when this AI can't really be matched.
The RFactor sims only thing I have not tested. I know asseto corsas falls short from what I here.

Hengist
18-08-2015, 09:25
Does the AI deserve a penalty is subjective. Opinions will differ. However, reading here that the human cheats, so the AI then cheats seems bizarre. So, two wrongs do make it right?

The best posts in this thread were the one's about adjusting braking zones to be more realistic for the AI's simplified phyics model and addressing their ability to not be affected (speed wise) when off track. Although it's a lot of work, I imagine that the former is feasible. As for the latter, I don't know if the AI is coded to be able to tell the difference.

maxx2504
18-08-2015, 09:26
Hi !

Sometimes it looks nice when the AI try to overtake and make mistakes. But there are moments when the AI is overtaking you on gravel, dirt and gras and they are much faster. Even when you try to push them from the track...they getting faster. Thats the point when it began to be unrealistic in my opinion.

Real drivers wouldn't do that so much and often like the AI in PCars. And when you set them to maybe 70...they are too slow and you can overtake too much easy.

The AI should slow down when they drive onto dirt, sand or gras...that would help so much ;)

graveltrap
18-08-2015, 10:09
The best posts in this thread were the one's about adjusting braking zones to be more realistic for the AI's simplified phyics model and addressing their ability to not be affected (speed wise) when off track. Although it's a lot of work, I imagine that the former is feasible. As for the latter, I don't know if the AI is coded to be able to tell the difference.

Totally agree on this, its the ability for the AI to brake later and in places carry far more corner speed due to the simplified physics model that leads to these kind of situations. In some cases the performance advantage can feel like the player is being cheated, so much so extreme action is taken ;)

It should also be pointed out that video in this thread is from a very early version of the game maybe even V1.0 so things have improved a bit since then...

ironik
18-08-2015, 10:22
Hi !

Sometimes it looks nice when the AI try to vertake and make mistakes. But there are moments when the AI is overtaking you on gravel, dirt and gras and they are much faster. Even when you try to push them from the track...they getting faster. Thats the point when it began to be unrealistic in my opinion.

Real drivers wouldn't do that so much and often like the AI in PCars. And when you set them to maybe 70...they are too slow and you can overtake too much easy.

The AI should slow down when they drive onto dirt, sand or gras...that would help so much ;)

Yeah, you're right IMO.
The problem is that AI is not loosing time while going offroad.
In the replay posted in the OP, you can clearly see that the player is squeezing the AI => The AI decided to go offroad to avoid the contact / crash and he gained a huge advantage.

What is funny is that if the AI would have kept is line, the player would have critized how bad the AI is for crashing into him ^^

Nomad06
18-08-2015, 11:36
This is not a PROBLEM. It's a fact of life. In ALL sims. Every sim uses a series of tricks or physics enhancements/ driver aids to compete with humans. Always have.
This one just happens to go beyond that and include a few random slots of behavior that activate if you attempt to cheat the AI.
Bravo.
Now let all these under informed complainers keep bashing on something they can regulate themselves. Guarantee you can't replicate a video where that AI cuts the corner without a slow human in front of him.
Looks to me like that was the only corner had advantage on you. And you chose to block him there. And run him off course at your leisure. Pretty sure a human would treat you same. And you didn't deserve to win.

Taxes are a fact of life.....your analogy is flawed.

Nomad06
18-08-2015, 11:42
I see.

Yes...agreed....player has a few kart races and is an expert lol

Nomad06
18-08-2015, 12:16
I see.


As I said, look through the many videos in the AI thread and you'll see what people are talking about. Some people do blame the AI for things that aren't an issue, I agree. But there are without a doubt some legitimate concerns about the AI that have been widely discussed in this forum. There's a reason the AI thread is at over 100 pages, and there's a reason why people keep posting about it. You bringing your "insight" as to why some people have issues isn't helping, and is far from new "advice".


Where? Show me the AI doing something dumb or cheating and I promise your likely to find the human he's playing doing the same. Have not dug my teeth too deep into this game yet. But the handful of kart races I have done and watched vs AI? I found no unfair penalties yet. No unbalanced AI cheating.

Just because the AI is being "held up" a bit doesn't give the AI carte blanche open season to start taking out the human players. In fact in racing being held up (when the racer in front is of course running competitive laps). ...is a 'fact of life', and the realities of racing. Its one thing to catch up, totally another to pass cleanly. Patience is a fact of racing...taking out the 'human' is...well, NOT!

I'm sorry but I am just not buying into your flawed theories of AI behaviours...and what you suggested as acceptable AI behavior, is IMHO, arcade.

I've logged almost 350 hrs on track...not just watching Al vs Human videos mixed in with a little kart racing. ...and, I agree with with the vast majority of posters in here that there are still significant issues with the AI...maybe once you've 'dug your teeth' into this sim for a while and run some races you'll see what we're on about...imo anyway. ..cheers.

Raven403
18-08-2015, 12:20
Just because the AI is being "held up" a bit doesn't give the AI carte blanche open season to start taking out the human players. In fact in racing being held up (when the racer in front is of course running competitive laps). ...is a 'fact of life', and the realities of racing. Its one thing to catch up, totally another to pass cleanly. Patience is a fact of racing...taking out the 'human' is...well, NOT!

I'm sorry but I am just not buying into your flawed theories of AI behaviours...and what you suggested as acceptable AI behavior, is IMHO, arcade.

I've logged almost 350 hrs on track...not just watching AlI vs Human videos mixed in with a little kart racing. ...and I agree with with the vast majority of posters in here that there are still significant issues with the AI...maybe once you've dug your teeth into this sim for a while and run some races you'll see what we're on about...imo anyway. ..cheers.

I was having a similar convo in another thread. They still need work, it's like a matter of life and death for the AI to get past you. There's no lining up a move, no predictable behavior, if you slow down in front of them they punt you off or cut the track to pass you. Then they become a 80 woman on a Sunday drive, you pass them, then they go back to being pissed off teenagers. Pretty frustrating, especially with the Car to Car magnetic physics

rosko
18-08-2015, 12:28
Yeah, you're right IMO.
The problem is that AI is not loosing time while going offroad.
In the replay posted in the OP, you can clearly see that the player is squeezing the AI => The AI decided to go offroad to avoid the contact / crash and he gained a huge advantage.

What is funny is that if the AI would have kept is line, the player would have critized how bad the AI is for crashing into him ^^

I think its difficult to see what is going on in the video from the angle provide, I would be interested on the view of a pro racing driver rather than self appointed racing experts on here. Personally i think there is an issue here with the AI, that they should slow on the grass & receive the same penalties. Something i would think should be possible to add.

Nomad06
18-08-2015, 12:34
I see.


As I said, look through the many videos in the AI thread and you'll see what people are talking about. Some people do blame the AI for things that aren't an issue, I agree. But there are without a doubt some legitimate concerns about the AI that have been widely discussed in this forum. There's a reason the AI thread is at over 100 pages, and there's a reason why people keep posting about it. You bringing your "insight" as to why some people have issues isn't helping, and is far from new "advice".


I was having a similar convo in another thread. They still need work, it's like a matter of life and death for the AI to get past you. There's no lining up a move, no predictable behavior, if you slow down in front of them they punt you off or cut the track to pass you. Then they become a 80 woman on a Sunday drive, you pass them, then they go back to being pissed off teenagers. Pretty frustrating, especially with the Car to Car magnetic physics

Agreed, don't know how many times I've encounterd this...I run the AI at 100%. Thinking that it might improve their behaviours. ...but not lol. They seem to want that line at any cost. ..if you're there. ..too bad! To me...thats just not how sim should be...as that behavior would not be accepted in the real racing world. ...I don't know how they're gonna "fix" it.....but they have to do something. The current status quo is just not working and its very frustrating. ...and I just don't subscribe to these theories that the AI is somehow getting pissed off...I've noticed on many occasions when on a hot lap...and the AI is coming out of the pits on cold tires....make a bee line right for the racing line into the first corner. ..one tiny little problem I am on it and imho own it! The AI should be taking an off line approach to the corner. ...as the "way it is" in real life racing and proper racing practice. I understand if the AI is coming out of the pits and is going for the race line and its clear....but not when you have a competitive car on a hot lap....the AI needs to take a different piece of real estate ;)

lacslyer
18-08-2015, 13:18
Was always talking about the video and driver contained within this thread. I may go all monkey later and start smearing crap all over the walls about the setups or pit situation. But it surely won't be over an aspect of Of the game that the developer gave me the keys to and 100% control.
Take your complaints where they belong, the AI thread then. But as this one sits here with posted video. This guy got taken to school by the AI. And he deserved it for cheating.
I did notice nobody can defend him vs the AI. Video and pictures worth gold.
Your complaints are worthless.

Oh. Btw. One really important question for you?
Can you name a game with better AI and explain how it's better?

I find it absurd to come in here guns blazing when this AI can't really be matched.
The RFactor sims only thing I have not tested. I know asseto corsas falls short from what I here.

As I said before, your points aren't helpful to the situation and are far from original as we've heard them all before. So as defensive as you are over the AI in the game, you're also admittedly inexperienced with it compared to some of us that have been judging it from the beginning.

As well, when you suggest how amazing this AI is compared to other sims yet haven't played a sim whose AI is often applauded your point stops short. rFactor 2 is the AI this game should be attempting to compete with, and while Assetto Corsa may not be as good, I could easily argue that in their most recent update of the AI they made further strides than this game has in fixing its AI.

My point is, while you think people are solely coming here to bash the game that's far from the truth. I've seen the majority of people complaining about the AI in this forum actually caring about his game and wanting it to be better. Hence why they provide feedback on the AI. You're not helping your cause at all by coming in here and arguing that we're all wrong when people with more experience than you in this game and others have all brought valid points with their opinions.

Mangoat
18-08-2015, 13:43
Bus stop - Watkins Glen. I don't know how many places I lost this weekend just on this one section. If the AI is on your left when braking/turning for these corners you'd better be ready for a clip on the right or a car "popping" in from the grass. I don't think I could make it along the straight-through as fast as the AI can go on the grass.

As for the AI "caring" how you've behaved on track, I don't think SMS have programmed in bearing a grudge into the AI - If they have, please let us know, that would be awesome :) (and could we have a telling an AI driver their AI girlfriend has slept with your teammate feature please :))

graveltrap
18-08-2015, 14:40
I seem to remember something about 'Red Mist' being part of the AI programing so they are more aggressive if you have passed or bumped them, not quite grudge bearing but good enough ;)

ironik
18-08-2015, 14:51
I think its difficult to see what is going on in the video from the angle provide, I would be interested on the view of a pro racing driver rather than self appointed racing experts on here. Personally i think there is an issue here with the AI, that they should slow on the grass & receive the same penalties. Something i would think should be possible to add.

I agree with you : the AI is too fast off track & should have a penalty if they gain an advantage.

But I disagree when one says that AI shouldn't cut a corner : Sometimes, cutting a corner or going off track is necessary to avoid a race accident.
I honestly think that many of the AI cutting is due to that : his line is blocked so he "chooses" to go off track.

Maybe that, in the example in the OP, the AI is too prone to keep his line instead of letting the player go ? It's just a guess and I think that's really difficult to say if the AI made an error or not. (besides the grip level on grass, of course)

Gravit8
18-08-2015, 16:01
I seem to remember something about 'Red Mist' being part of the AI programing so they are more aggressive if you have passed or bumped them, not quite grudge bearing but good enough ;)



It's like they forget their own words if it will help their own argument. What is a red mist? I call it adaptive AI.
And yes. It's been established AI only cuts corner to avoid player here. Not every time.

Bus stop chicane @ Watkins?. I had to get into the 1:29's (lmp1) before keeping up with AI through there at 80 something percent. Seem fine to me. Were all over my rear views, but never ran me over, just passed. Until I figured it out. Never noticed them off the track once. But then again, I have pretty good situational awareness and show them respect. I don't like crashing, even if it is AI.
And I don't want any part of that red mist/Road rage you guys keep talking about when you pass them.
Maybe it's not really happening and the players are the ones raging out. :p

rosko
18-08-2015, 17:33
I agree with you : the AI is too fast off track & should have a penalty if they gain an advantage.

But I disagree when one says that AI shouldn't cut a corner : Sometimes, cutting a corner or going off track is necessary to avoid a race accident.
I honestly think that many of the AI cutting is due to that : his line is blocked so he "chooses" to go off track.

Maybe that, in the example in the OP, the AI is too prone to keep his line instead of letting the player go ? It's just a guess and I think that's really difficult to say if the AI made an error or not. (besides the grip level on grass, of course)

I think in this incident although hard to see)he moves across to cover the inside & the AI should have backed off. I have seen them back off before & wait for a better time but in this instance its got one thing in mind.

graveltrap
18-08-2015, 18:16
What is a red mist?


Just to elaborate on point 3.

The AI are coded with multiple human attributes that dynamically alter based on interaction during a race. One of those we call 'red mist'. This is when an AI car will, for a short time, get angry, and occasionally drive beyond the limits of their ability to try to 'return a favour' you've given them earlier.

Link to actual post (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23553-The-AI-discussion-(all-platforms)&p=1000423&viewfull=1#post1000423)

Hengist
18-08-2015, 18:33
When I drive beyond my limits, I generally crash. I wish that I could see the AI sharing those characteristics. :)

Mangoat
18-08-2015, 21:13
Ah. This goes some way to explaining the situation - In most cases I had just overtaken them up the straight. Most of the field behind, when catching up in the breaking zone, are well behaved.

I heard mention of aggression sliders...:)

Gravit8
19-08-2015, 01:53
When I drive beyond my limits, I generally crash. I wish that I could see the AI sharing those characteristics. :)

Sounds like a Pastor Maldanado kind of style. That guy doesn't know when not to push the limit either. Crash isn't a word most drivers include in their vocabulary to describe themselves.

I push my limits every session. Just not in a situation where the outcome could be a crash. That's situational awareness. Most people that have it are not tangling with the AI or complaining.

Hengist
19-08-2015, 09:25
Crash isn't a word most drivers include in their vocabulary to describe themselves.

That makes sense, as I'm not like most drivers.

creepyd
19-08-2015, 12:42
The root of the problem I believe comes from the fact that if you're alongside the AI and move towards it, it will move over.
It will keep moving over until it's completely off the track, and then some!
I think that's also what's happening at bends when it overtakes you cutting the corner and such.

That has to change, they need to move over, but if they reach the edge of the track they need to stop moving over.
There would be contact at that point, but it would be the human's fault then.

More difficult to program is preventing the cutting of the corner, where they would need to brake and back off if there isn't going to be room up the inside. Since they currently have no concept of 'room' and no concept of where the track boundaries are that's going to take some work.

MABlosfeld
19-08-2015, 19:23
questions:
AI receives punishment when cutting way?
AI receives damage when crashes?

Schnizz58
20-08-2015, 15:46
It's quite simple really and it has nothing to do with how good of a driver you are or what the AI difficulty is set to or "red mist". If I pass an AI car by cutting a corner I should be penalized. It doesn't matter why I did it. It doesn't matter that the AI car in front of me braked too soon and I had to go off track to get around him. It doesn't matter if I'm in a violent rage because that car just passed me on the previous corner. The bottom line is that doing that is a penalty, end of story. Now flip the script and the same exact thing should apply to the AI drivers. If they cut a corner and gain an advantage by it, they should suffer the same penalty I would.

mr.slow
20-08-2015, 18:30
@gravit8: I'm sorry you are full of sh*t

Gravit8
20-08-2015, 19:25
@gravit8: I'm sorry you are full of sh*t

Seems like a well reasoned take.
Go ahead break down how what I'm seeing in the video is wrong.?
Three word insult the best you can manage?
Good effort. Thanks for stopping by

Another worthless opinion with no evidence

Gravit8
20-08-2015, 19:48
questions:
AI receives punishment when cutting way?
AI receives damage when crashes?

No penaltys for player or AI. But the AI don't cut routinely. Like players can.
Yes AI have damage even to point of failure if they blow out tires. Not sure if they can wreck out. Can't verify that.

rocafella1978
20-08-2015, 21:31
questions:
AI receives punishment when cutting way?
AI receives damage when crashes?
it is all over the game, AI does not get PENALTIES for cutting corners, does not slow down off the track and hits you when they want to dive bomb you, and worst is rear end you, try AI @90 or @100 %, go to DUBAI AUTODROME INTERNATIONAL, SONOMA RACEWAY SHORT, IMOLA and MONZA
there you will see the finest CORNER CUTTING of AI without penalties and also most aggressive driving including rear ending each other and human drivers and using grass as extra to the kurbs and track :) doesn't matter how well Gravit8 is trying to make the AI look, better and professional and just perfect drivers, they are not, simply put over push the cars, brake so late into curves, even following and try the same braking shifting down no way to keep the same braking marks and only way to work them is BLOCK them hard and keep them hard in your rear views if they approach you. it is a GIVEN that AI in pCARS is lightyears better than any other AI i have seen, so just have to be smarter than them and find a way to block them successfully. (i am lucky always to get away from them) but some tracks, just keep my racing line and let them pass on straights, instead of fighting or position and them rear ending me or taking me out, since they don't get penalties and they don't lose speed at all not being on the track, they have multi level adjustable and on the fly tires and suspension and vehicle systems :)

rocafella1978
20-08-2015, 21:33
No penaltys for player or AI. But the AI don't cut routinely. Like players can.
Yes AI have damage even to point of failure if they blow out tires. Not sure if they can wreck out. Can't verify that.

cutting corners for PLAYER, indeed you get DQ or stuff like that. AI nothing, also jumping start, or maybe they are just perfect off the line, but player gets drive through for jumping start.
AI and players have damages all the way, and best of all is, ROLLING STARTS with AI @100 at tracks like AZURE, WATKINS and SONOMA...lol what a wonderful way to start races :) go test. nothing better than getting vehicles GO GREEN right in a hair pin!

Gravit8
20-08-2015, 21:58
:) doesn't matter how well Gravit8 is trying to make the AI look, better and professional and just perfect drivers, they are not,
it is a GIVEN that AI in pCARS is lightyears better than any other AI i have seen, so just have to be smarter than them and find a way to block them successfully.


Ok. Which is it. How do I take you seriously?



(i am lucky always to get away from them) but some tracks, just keep my racing line and let them pass on straights, instead of fighting or position and them rear ending me or taking me out, since they don't get penalties and they don't lose speed at all not being on the track, they have multi level adjustable and on the fly tires and suspension and vehicle systems :)
It's probably what makes them so good or bad? I can't figure which side of your mouth you believe.

Gravit8
20-08-2015, 22:11
cutting corners for PLAYER, indeed you get DQ or stuff like that. AI nothing, also jumping start, or maybe they are just perfect off the line, but player gets drive through for jumping start.
AI and players have damages all the way, and best of all is, ROLLING STARTS with AI @100 at tracks like AZURE, WATKINS and SONOMA...lol what a wonderful way to start races :) go test. nothing better than getting vehicles GO GREEN right in a hair pin!

Do you not have the option to avoid setting the game up for failure? I'll answer you too? The tools are their and alternatives to avoid the situation you speak of.
Those particular track and start combos are bugged. Don't use them til their fixed or ever. Who cares? Those combos do work for the other 85% of tracks

And yes. I will explore the worst offenders today. Sonoma Watkins and Azure, maybe monza too.
I'll find a way to race em clean without getting penalized.

Since I'll start at Watkins, what should I look for?. I'm reasonably sure I've already covered AI here up to 90 with no problems. Quite good and clean racing when I tested there last week.

rocafella1978
20-08-2015, 22:58
so there is nothing wrong with the AI cutting tracks and corners, and nothing wrong with the system at all, when no AI's are penalized?

hmm, I guess...that's where you Gravit8215784 are completely and utterly correct all the time and no place for discussion here in the forum, since the AI is PERFECT and no need to discuss the AI behavior racers are noticing...oh sorry, I meant us amateurs, since you are in the category of racer and we just don't know how to deal with AI, ergo - amateurs, if at all.

Bliman
20-08-2015, 23:29
Do you not have the option to avoid setting the game up for failure? I'll answer you too? The tools are their and alternatives to avoid the situation you speak of.
Those particular track and start combos are bugged. Don't use them til their fixed or ever. Who cares? Those combos do work for the other 85% of tracks

And yes. I will explore the worst offenders today. Sonoma Watkins and Azure, maybe monza too.
I'll find a way to race em clean without getting penalized.

Since I'll start at Watkins, what should I look for?. I'm reasonably sure I've already covered AI here up to 90 with no problems. Quite good and clean racing when I tested there last week.

I get a feeling you are doing this on purpose.
You are telling us with a straight face there is nothing wrong with the AI?
Then you are either a race god that is so good that you are driving away from the competition or else you are so good you can drive around your competitors all day no matter what happens.
You say avoid the circuits that display the worse AI behavior, but I am afraid that your not going to race much then.
The AI can be good sometimes but there are some drivers whose helmet visor is a little to dark :) .

Gravit8
20-08-2015, 23:54
so there is nothing wrong with the AI cutting tracks and corners, and nothing wrong with the system at all, when no AI's are penalized?

hmm, I guess...that's where you Gravit8.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup. Exactly. I go with gentlemens rules cause I don't cheat. I don't need them penalized so I can abuse them and get my achievements. Don't need special rules that only apply to them.
I don't have issues cause I don't put them in stupid situations. And you know what. They extend me the same courtesys. Have filled up my mirrors, then passed plenty of times though
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
215784 are completely and utterly correct all the time and no place for discussion here in the forum, since the AI is PERFECT and no need to discuss the AI behavior racers are noticing...oh sorry, I meant us amateurs, since you are in the category of racer and we just don't know how to deal with AI, ergo - amateurs, if at all.

I think you over analyze. Lot of chest puffing it seems for nothing. I really do think the AI is most complex and interesting thing about modern games to an extant. Especially racing AI. That's why I actually DO love discussing it. In depth, not just skimming the surface parts and cherry picking parts I hate.
But I'm sorry if I'm waisting my time and yours testing cause you have the whole rubiks cube solved already apparently. And it must be busted. Cause you say so.
Regardless if someone posts a video of AI maintaining as long as they aren't pissed at you.
Some people just can't handle that it might not be the AI's fault it seems.

People are calling it the best. Only seen one or two arguments for F1 speed or something a ways back. But it was also argued against.

In also think you are missing the fact that I am telling you that these problems are not presenting themselves to me, because I race the AI differently. Like I said. I have not felt cheated yet. And I have watched my son get pretty liberal with bending the rules around them and never take penalties either. He cheats em when he feels like it without consequence as well. I fail to see the problem. I think we race them different. I know I race them different than what's displayed in the video submitted with this complaint.

Are you saying the game would be a better game if the AI couldn't whoop your bass every now and then?

Think about a first person shooter or dungeon crawler. The story campaign should, (for some people) (possibly?), have a point at which the AI is relentless and the developer has you trapped and beat. (Almost ;) ) it's to show off what that the AI/developer can or could do to you. Call it artificial difficulty if you like. But the challenge was placed there for you and you have the option to accept it or not. It's not like the game constantly does it or anything. Seems like the AI rain thing at donnington is the most difficult in game. Like a serious pain in the ass from what I here. Don't like it. Don't try it.
Just move to the next race with or without your win and get em at the next track. The games setup to try and beat ya at least once. And it should be trying.

The point at which someone starts losing to the AI can't be same for everyone.
And I'm sure the game has given you plenty of other variety and options where you don't have to be frustrated by good AI

Gravit8
21-08-2015, 00:33
I get a feeling you are doing this on purpose.
You are telling us with a straight face there is nothing wrong with the AI?
Then you are either a race god that is so good that you are driving away from the competition or else you are so good you can drive around your competitors all day no matter what happens.
You say avoid the circuits that display the worse AI behavior, but I am afraid that your not going to race much then.
The AI can be good sometimes but there are some drivers whose helmet visor is a little to dark :) .

Yes. I'm very purposely trying to move this conversation forward. If you have anything that should be tested. Let me know. I'm pretty sure SMS test some real human on a wheel and controller that can beat these AI at these levels.
Let's watch it be done and stop arguing.

And I'm purposely blaming the human in the video for cheating the AI as well. I've always contended the player deserved more penaltys than the AI did. No ones argued that, only that it's somehow unfair to them or him that the AI isn't penalized for doing same thing as player. When the player wasn't penalized either. fail to understand that logic.
Makes no sense
opposite of fair actually

Schnizz58
21-08-2015, 00:57
I get a feeling you are doing this on purpose.
Ya think?

lacslyer
21-08-2015, 02:56
I think you over analyze. Lot of chest puffing it seems for nothing. I really do think the AI is most complex and interesting thing about modern games to an extant. Especially racing AI. That's why I actually DO love discussing it. In depth, not just skimming the surface parts and cherry picking parts I hate.
But I'm sorry if I'm waisting my time and yours testing cause you have the whole rubiks cube solved already apparently. And it must be busted. Cause you say so.
Regardless if someone posts a video of AI maintaining as long as they aren't pissed at you.
Some people just can't handle that it might not be the AI's fault it seems.

People are calling it the best. Only seen one or two arguments for F1 speed or something a ways back. But it was also argued against.

In also think you are missing the fact that I am telling you that these problems are not presenting themselves to me, because I race the AI differently. Like I said. I have not felt cheated yet. And I have watched my son get pretty liberal with bending the rules around them and never take penalties either. He cheats em when he feels like it without consequence as well. I fail to see the problem. I think we race them different. I know I race them different than what's displayed in the video submitted with this complaint.

Are you saying the game would be a better game if the AI couldn't whoop your bass every now and then?

Think about a first person shooter or dungeon crawler. The story campaign should, (for some people) (possibly?), have a point at which the AI is relentless and the developer has you trapped and beat. (Almost ;) ) it's to show off what that the AI/developer can or could do to you. Call it artificial difficulty if you like. But the challenge was placed there for you and you have the option to accept it or not. It's not like the game constantly does it or anything. Seems like the AI rain thing at donnington is the most difficult in game. Like a serious pain in the ass from what I here. Don't like it. Don't try it.
Just move to the next race with or without your win and get em at the next track. The games setup to try and beat ya at least once. And it should be trying.

The point at which someone starts losing to the AI can't be same for everyone.
And I'm sure the game has given you plenty of other variety and options where you don't have to be frustrated by good AI

That literally means absolutely nothing. You having no issues does not equate to the AI being fine. You're not the first, or the last, to make the argument that because you race differently and don't experience issues that it must be the drivers' fault and not the AI. Meanwhile the AI thread is full of videos that show the numerous issues with the AI but choose to ignore that, and instead cling onto this one video that supports your opinion.

You're not having a discussion about AI, that would require you to do more than deny everyone elses' opinions based on your own experience, which is obviously limited.

You are wasting peoples' time, because you're too stubborn to accept any opinion that disagrees with yours regardless of the mass amount of evidence available. I suggest if you're not willing to listen to peoples' opinions on the matter that you simply move away from the "discussion".

rocafella1978
21-08-2015, 04:01
@Gravit8 - the AI can't whoop my
bass, that's the good thing in this game and for me, so thank you I am all good and whoop the AI, that's how bad the AI is! (unless you hit SKIP TO END OF SESSION, then the game/ AI beats you by about 5seconds to 30seconds...)
so trying to have a discussion and conversation with other community members who are seeing and experiencing the same as I am, did not join nor did I want to get into posts with you and others with you ONLY...and this is what this thread has become...community members producing videos, screenshots and facts about how the AI is not working, and yet we all end up here posting xxxxxx amount of *** *** to argue with your st****rn personality and attitude.

very simply put, be productive and add to the discussion, and don't try to bend everything and every single post around blaming the members who post their experience/ opinion.

Gravit8
21-08-2015, 05:15
That literally means absolutely nothing. You having no issues does not equate to the AI being fine. You're not the first, or the last, to make the argument that because you race differently and don't experience issues that it must be the drivers' fault and not the AI. Meanwhile the AI thread is full of videos that show the numerous issues with the AI but choose to ignore that, and instead cling onto this one video that supports your opinion.

You're not having a discussion about AI, that would require you to do more than deny everyone elses' opinions based on your own experience, which is obviously limited.

You are wasting peoples' time, because you're too stubborn to accept any opinion that disagrees with yours regardless of the mass amount of evidence available. I suggest if you're not willing to listen to peoples' opinions on the matter that you simply move away from the "discussion".

Wheres the new vid or next one to break down? Wanna post it here.m or just keep mincing words. You turd.
Stop being daft and post a vid. The one that started this thread has been debunked as user error. Shut up or post a new one that can't be argued with.
We're not in that thread. Seems like a link is just about the easiest way to prove yourself on the inter webs. Unless your a stupid ass just and just keep
Shouting and throwing crap everywhere hoping it sticks. This video doesn't stick, or prove anything other than the AI will cheat too if the the driver just stinks and cheats too.
Good. I shouldn't be able to cheat the AI for achievements.

Edit
Apologies for shortness. Been drinking. Settled down a bit and now on my way back to the pub. See ya in a bit u tw......
I hope there's a vid posted here when I get back. Toodles

Skrillex
21-08-2015, 09:43
In doing career mode earlier tonight I had a race at the Japan track (_sorry name escapes me ATM) anyway there was one incident, both me and the AI car entered the corner at the same time our wheels touched whether it was my fault or the AI is irrelevant. What happened was the AI car went off the track through the sand and grass I stayed on the track yet somehow the AI car came out of the corner 4 car lengths ahead of me. Now..... If that was me that got forced off the track in the same manor I would have lost at least 4 positions let alone being slowed way down. I won the FA race anyway but the point is that AI car that got bumped off track did not lose a beat coming out of that corner he actually gained speed as he came out in front of me. How on this green earth did that happen?

tilbs10
21-08-2015, 09:47
when I do career with the clios, the AI normally always cut the last corner round Snetterton when they are side by side. That gives like 4 seconds advantage down start/finish straight and get no penalty. I'll try and get a video sorted showing it

lacslyer
21-08-2015, 13:37
Wheres the new vid or next one to break down? Wanna post it here.m or just keep mincing words. You turd.
Stop being daft and post a vid. The one that started this thread has been debunked as user error. Shut up or post a new one that can't be argued with.
We're not in that thread. Seems like a link is just about the easiest way to prove yourself on the inter webs. Unless your a stupid ass just and just keep
Shouting and throwing crap everywhere hoping it sticks. This video doesn't stick, or prove anything other than the AI will cheat too if the the driver just stinks and cheats too.
Good. I shouldn't be able to cheat the AI for achievements.

Edit
Apologies for shortness. Been drinking. Settled down a bit and now on my way back to the pub. See ya in a bit u tw......
I hope there's a vid posted here when I get back. Toodles

Thanks for proving my point.

Mahjik
21-08-2015, 13:42
Guys (and gals), let's keep the discussion on topic. No problems with having a disagreement, but no personal attacks.

N0body Of The Goat
21-08-2015, 13:50
I want to see penalties awarded to AI for some of their cutting at Spa, at Eau rouge; Les Combes and Bus Stop at least. ;)

MABlosfeld
21-08-2015, 14:41
They cut corners, run on the grass and nothing happens
This is the real problem there is no punishment for (AI)

Gravit8
21-08-2015, 20:26
So. I hear there's a problem with the AI still. Something about getting beat by it. I don't know.
People are losing their minds.
Funny thing is no one wants to show it. Hmmmmmnnnnnn

Schnizz58
21-08-2015, 20:34
Something about getting beat by it.
How long are you going to continue to miss the point?

Gravit8
21-08-2015, 20:37
How long are you going to continue to miss the point?

Until it's actually visable maybe?

Still have yet to see any AI behavior I disapprove of here.

https://youtu.be/cnc1Uew6eP8

Have a look In the mean time and think about what would happen at 2:28 in this race. Not to mention the handful of cars in first corner who definitely didn't deserve any penalties.?a good portion of leaders would be penalized in the first corner for stuff that's not their fault.
It's the reason AI can't have penaltys. It would start breaking the game down.
Think please.
Once the penalties multiplied or stacked. Player gets a free ride. The AI puts other AI at risk of penalties constantly. Think and try and Solve that


Good looking race with competent AI at monza no problem.
You give them penalties and it will take someone all of two seconds to post a vid to youtube where he starts from back, pressures from behind causing issues, and gets every single pass illegitimately by gaming the penalties. Probably have a title like. "Project cars busted" or something stupid

Schnizz58
21-08-2015, 20:38
It's been stated many times. If you can't see it, you're not looking. "There are none so blind as them that will not see."

Gravit8
21-08-2015, 21:09
It's been stated many times. If you can't see it, you're not looking. "There are none so blind as them that will not see."

Could be worse. I could refuse to look. But.......
Whatever. Got anything to say about that video or the questions I posed about what happens at corner 1 or 2:28 because right now. That's what I'm looking at thinking how it would be ruined with penalties. All that carnage in 1 would have been a joke as it played out AI slowing. AI trying to get around. You'd sack half the field in first two corners

At least that's the way I SEE it playing out.
We all know you not gonna look.

https://youtu.be/hXUZ3fNQ0Ss


This Game would be ruined with penalties for AI

Schnizz58
21-08-2015, 21:14
Could be worse. I could refuse to look. But.......
Whatever. Got anything to say about that video or the questions I posed about what happens at corner 1 or 2:28 because right now. That's what I'm looking at thinking how it would be ruined with penalties.

https://youtu.be/hXUZ3fNQ0Ss


This Game would be ruined with penalties for AI
I didn't see anything that warranted a penalty. Turn 1 looked about as clean as a turn 1 ever looks and at 2:28 a car cut the chicane but didn't gain an advantage from it.

Gravit8
21-08-2015, 21:28
I didn't see anything that warranted a penalty. Turn 1 looked about as clean as a turn 1 ever looks and at 2:28 a car cut the chicane but didn't gain an advantage from it.

Turn 1 looked normal yes. But with penalties? Half that field is gone correct? It's better with none and that situation plays out just like it did with no penalties to intervene. It worked out better without them. Would have been much uglier and race affecting. You have too see that right?

Are you getting there? Seeing what would happen at turn 1 with penaltys. Turn 1 is important. Let's go deeper

Gotta go. Be back later

Schnizz58
21-08-2015, 21:32
As I already said, I see no need for any penalties in turn 1. Who would you penalize and why?

graveltrap
21-08-2015, 22:46
If you really want to analyse the AI performance don't you think it would be prudent to at least use video of them in their current state rather than that of the pre-release game and how it was in the original release?

A lot has been tinkered with already, and they have been modified and improved with every patch release... No doubt with some input from users of these very forums :)

Gravit8
21-08-2015, 23:10
As I already said, I see no need for any penalties in turn 1. Who would you penalize and why?

If the penalties you ask for we're put in place there. Those ALL would have registered as penalties in turn 1. How would the system know the difference. You want Off track as a penalty. That's where they are and they'd get one in that instance. Even though not deserved like you say.

The system you ask for. (AI penalties for off track) would have penalized 4-6 cars at turn 1. And probably a few others at each successive corner til the pack got inline. By then you'd be racing 1-2 AI's that are left.

It was still happening between two AI In front of player much later. Another undeserved penalty would register at 2:28 as well. Deep into race.
Seeing the big picture yet?

Schnizz58
21-08-2015, 23:19
Nope.

Gravit8
21-08-2015, 23:30
Nope.

It's ok.
I get your purpose now. Good luck with that. Been a lovely discussion.

I hope the AI don't haunt you in your sleep or anything.

Bliman
22-08-2015, 00:26
I think a lot of the problems with the Ai and other things in this game (like replay,etc..) is because there are two versions running it seems.
One for the player with full physics and a much simpler model used for the AI.
And the difficulty is getting the AI do things you would expect them to do but with a much simpler model to work with.
The moment it would run with one physics model (to taxing at the moment) is the moment it would be much simpler to let them behave more realistically and write rules for there behavior.
I feel like they are trying to combine two different worlds and it's proving very difficult for the moment.

lacslyer
22-08-2015, 00:45
I think a lot of the problems with the Ai and other things in this game (like replay,etc..) is because there are two versions running it seems.
One for the player with full physics and a much simpler model used for the AI.
And the difficulty is getting the AI do things you would expect them to do but with a much simpler model to work with.
The moment it would run with one physics model (to taxing at the moment) is the moment it would be much simpler to let them behave more realistically and write rules for there behavior.
I feel like they are trying to combine two different worlds and it's proving very difficult for the moment.

This is the majority of the problem I would guess. Primarily because they likely developed the physics to be used by both the player and the AI, but didn't realize it would take so much processing to allow the AI to have similar physics, therefor they had to adapt and cut down on what the AI are limited to. Pure speculation on my behalf, but that's my guess as to what happened and why things are the way they are now.

However, I'm also of the opinion that other areas of the AI do need some work that don't have to do with their physics being different than the player's.

MABlosfeld
23-08-2015, 15:28
apply punishment to cut corners and get off track or suffer damage does not require PHYSICAL but of common sense.