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NinjaTrek2891
11-05-2015, 14:14
Cause the AI is broken beyond race-able.

AI seems to have god powers and they know it! They crash into you making you almost always lift of either one side of the car.

Collision impact models are just plain wrong. AI and user vehicle are not handling by the same models. As if the AI is on rails (they never seem to go up sky high).

As long i'm in the lead of a race, things are perfect. I can race just fine without the need to fly over AI's. Here's a very small compilation video I made of a few godlike AI crashes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bcg4w6YD6g
HD is still processing while posting.

I hope these problems can be fixed asap as I like to race in between cars and not on a 6 second lead all the time. :)

wraithsrike
11-05-2015, 14:21
AI and player are 100% running different physics I agree.

NemethR
11-05-2015, 14:22
I did nto try this car, but I can say for sure, you do not have this issue with GT cars

NemethR
11-05-2015, 14:23
AI and player are 100% running different physics I agree.

/agree

Siberian Tiger
11-05-2015, 14:26
Well, the Escort seems to have a Problem with the Collision Box. -> Other Cars should be Fine...
And yes also the Openwheelers seems to avoid the contact to less.

And yes the AI and the Player is not running on the same physic. -> Not possible atm not even for a i7 Processor.

Roger Prynne
11-05-2015, 14:29
Also it looks like a lot of those incidents were due to bad driving on your part. :eek-new:

NinjaTrek2891
11-05-2015, 14:32
Also it looks like a lot of those incidents were due to bad driving on your part. :eek-new:

Still ... It shouldn't let me take off each time I come into the slightest contact. Not even in a Openwheeler defo net on the old escorts.

Trux
11-05-2015, 14:37
I disagree with the op. I think the AI is probably the best I have raced. Sure they can be dumb on occasion but eh..have you seen online! :dejection:

Bleis
11-05-2015, 16:08
I disagree with the op. I think the AI is probably the best I have raced. Sure they can be dumb on occasion but eh..have you seen online! :dejection:

I agree, before the do something about the AI, they should do something about the Online, the drivers Bump into you, break to late, and ram you, ruin your Q lap ect, the AI for online cars are totaly bad.

Ian Bell
11-05-2015, 16:10
I disagree with the op. I think the AI is probably the best I have raced. Sure they can be dumb on occasion but eh..have you seen online! .

I agree also. I really love our AI. We've done all that we can to make them behave as humans. If you drive with that in mind they work vey well indeed.

Ripgroove
11-05-2015, 16:24
Agreed. If I'm out in front all is fine, but the second I'm in a pack and get slowed down by cars in front of me so I get savagely taken out by the cars behind me. I spent spent well of an hour yesterday trying to complete a 2 lap race at Senoma Raceway in a Formula Rookie because They just simply would not stop ramming me off the track, I'm fast on that track in that car as I know both very well but for the life I've me I could place anywhere higher than 6th!

Driving accordingly does not seem to work, if I have to back off and hold back while waiting to pass through slower cars ahead the AI behind me just takes me out.

NinjaTrek2891
12-05-2015, 08:36
Yesterday I had some stuff to vent. And after Many Many restarts of my race and many laps. I came to a discovery. I disabled the HUD and the AI seemed to behave less erratic. I actually could race through the first laps. I'm running the game at Geforce Experience called optimal settings at about 60-70FPS. I had the idea, when the cpu gets more load to process during starts AI gets erratic. I could be wrong.

If the field is more split up without having the need for 3 cars aside on the track everything is pretty darn good. All my crashes after the first lap are mostly caused by stupidness. Although, AI really tries to give me a punch in the back when they can. :)

I still believe collisions need work. But I think that is patch-able. Here are two videos, one of a great race. And one of a impact that I might have caused but you can see the physics are way off. It's like I crashed into a a wall whilst I think if the crash was really severe like that, I would have flown at-least 40 meters ahead into the sandbanks :)

First video about the crash physics that isn't quite right in my opinion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE7qRa6pvvY

Second video is a 12 lap Formula Rookie race when all goes well, unless I make terrible mistakes. :) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3jkxcUP6VQ

Racing is incredible real, mistakes are punished. I play at AI 100% cause anything slower is bad for moral! :)

WobblyCaptain
12-05-2015, 08:49
I have played many racing games over the years and raced against a lot of AI cars now to date I have played project cars for around 25hrs playing time and I have set the difficultly and that of the AI to try and match my skill and be competitive by competitive I mean that I really have to work at it and drive hard without errors and lap consistent fast times to win a race if I come in the top 6 I have done well if I win more the better :-)

I find the AI cars based upon playing 25hrs of the game so far to be the best that I have raced against its my personal opinion I suppose it depends on your settings and level of difficultly and how you drive yourself in the game but personally I find the AI pretty good.

Pablo2008jedi
12-05-2015, 09:05
AI does have its issues, but nothing too bad


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FJy_nWoZUo

Francorchamps
12-05-2015, 09:06
It's like Ian says they tried to make the AI as human as they can. Again, I'm no developer but games like these have to run on our machines and even the best gaming PC could not run AI that thinks like a real human so my guess is you have to make compromises. You can't have AI that thinks like "oh there comes the human, let's drive carefully now" because we would ram that AI off the tracks. The AI wants to win just like we do. Compared to the humans online I think the AI does a very good job of racing fair. And yes I have been cursing the AI from time to time as well but not as much as other humans online.

Is the AI perfect? No! But it's the best AI I have seen in racing games so far.

baronesbc
12-05-2015, 09:33
It's like Ian says they tried to make the AI as human as they can. Again, I'm no developer but games like these have to run on our machines and even the best gaming PC could not run AI that thinks like a real human so my guess is you have to make compromises. You can't have AI that thinks like "oh there comes the human, let's drive carefully now" because we would ram that AI off the tracks. The AI wants to win just like we do. Compared to the humans online I think the AI does a very good job of racing fair. And yes I have been cursing the AI from time to time as well but not as much as other humans online.

Is the AI perfect? No! But it's the best AI I have seen in racing games so far.

Maybe is just that the error, create an AI thinking of the public servers online, that have little to do with real races most of the time.
Why not inspire the AI directly to real races? or to private leagues, which can be defined as real racing?

AI at 100%, look how they end up off the track in a desperate attempt to overcome the rider in front, look how they exagerate always in braking, searching an impossible overtake.. they seem the classic idiots in public server who run without respect for the opponent ruining the race to the other drivers:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_E5IIAcQ_0

We need just a slide to adjust the aggressiveness (and imho an highest difficulty level), problem solved.

Francorchamps
12-05-2015, 10:15
But is there an example of the best AI in other racing games? Has there ever been a perfect AI? Really asking the question as I am not familiar with all the SIM's out there.

dyr_gl
12-05-2015, 10:29
But is there an example of the best AI in other racing games? Has there ever been a perfect AI? Really asking the question as I am not familiar with all the SIM's out there.

Perfect? No. And it wont be soon that it will happen. Well be taken home by an autonomous car before that happens.

Better? Yes.

Joshua Healy
12-05-2015, 10:43
But is there an example of the best AI in other racing games? Has there ever been a perfect AI? Really asking the question as I am not familiar with all the SIM's out there.

The game with some of the best AI racing I've seen and raced against has been in Game Stock Car (all variants)... They really nailed the AI there.

However in saying that I do like the AI in pCARS so far, if I race them the same way I would race people in iRacing I tend to get some really good and close battles.
But in saying that no ai is going to be perfect, even the aforementioned GSC ai isn't perfect by any means.

Dresden
12-05-2015, 10:51
I agree also. I really love our AI. We've done all that we can to make them behave as humans. If you drive with that in mind they work vey well indeed.

The AI is very good in this game. I see them twitch and have battles with each other which is really neat. Sure they do go slightly too fast through some corners where I am braking and smash right through me, but I guess this is just like online as well!

Unfortunately the collision system is not quite as good as the AI and allows the AI vehicles to sail through the sand traps as if it isnt there. I did the same Escort race as the OP and had a side-to-side collision that put us both into the trap. I slowed right down and he charged hundreds of feet ahead despite being in deeper sand. Why do all racing games have this same problem? Why are we penalize and they have no problem? Perhaps the code is geared to the driver difficulty set and not to real world physics, and it is hard to tailor the game to each variable...Shame really...One day somebody will get it right.

Sankyo
12-05-2015, 10:55
For sure the AI isn't perfect, but neither is any online human driver :) Here's an example of the typical fun I have with the AI (default 80%), starting from the back. Note that the few contacts I had with the AI were my fault to begin with ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO9IFWCtWds

Roger Prynne
12-05-2015, 11:31
^^^ good example of how it should be done... not like some guys complaining about bad AI because THEY the humans are trying to make impossible overtakes and not giving enough room to other drivers. This is where the fun is had by driving like it was real.

ProRacerMike
12-05-2015, 11:41
Hi,
Check one of my videos out racing the Ford Escort RS1600.
I am not getting that problem with AI's
https://youtu.be/IrGLqHzWk2Q
Cheers

LukeSi
12-05-2015, 12:22
I've found the Ai brilliant. Only raced Clios at the moment but had some really good battles with them. Door to door racing, nudging etc, seriously impressed.

dyr_gl
12-05-2015, 13:17
^^^ good example of how it should be done... not like some guys complaining about bad AI because THEY are trying to make impossible overtakes and not giving enough room to other drivers. This is where the fun is had by driving like it was real.

As far as I see, compliants are about AI making impossible overtakes and not giving room mate. I raced the shorter version of that track with 100 AI and got consistently hit from 7-8 tenths behind at two different parts of the track.

If Im not in the way to stop them they always go wide to the grass and lose a lot of time after steaming into the braking zone. Not sure why you try to deflect an obvious problem into the players. :confused:

Edit: obviously if youre talking about the video in the OP, forget about this. Im talking about the compliants in general.

Ryno917
12-05-2015, 13:30
AI and player are 100% running different physics I agree.

The only sim where the player and AI run the same physics model is Assetto Corsa. And it pays the price in a huge performance hit - most people can't run a decent field in it because of this. The AI in every other sim is using a less complex physics model to save processing resources for a more fluid FPS rate. That is standard practice in the industry, and it is warranted. It's definitely not a negative point for pCARS. Note that arcade racers may use the same physics model for all cars - but they can do that, because they have very simple physics models (by comparison) and therefore require vastly fewer resources than a sim's physics model.


Like the others have said, the AI in pCARS is actually quite good most of the time. It's the best AI I've ever raced against in any racing game, whether it be sim or arcade (and I've played pretty much every major title, save for Project Gotham), as well as a lot of the smaller more niche titles. Racing AI is just a very difficult thing to do, apparently. Also, again as mentioned already, most of the complaint videos I've seen show the player making some very poor moves and getting into situations they shouldn't be in, resulting in contact where they are at fault, not the AI.

That all being said, I did make a couple bonehead moves at Silverstone in my Escort and I noticed it jump into the air as well. I would like the collision model to be looked at. The AI, though? They're great, so far. One thing I immediately noticed is that when you're beside one coming up on a corner, they don't slam on the brakes and let you take the position the way they do in most sims. That alone was a huge boost to the experience.

Martin G Webb
12-05-2015, 13:37
I really love the AI in the game too, especially when you poke it with a big stick or call it rude names while you're lapping the slower cars.

My therapist has advised to spend more time with the AI of Project Cars because it helps me deal with real people and situations better. Apparently shouting and abusing real people is BAD and doing the same to AI is acceptable.

SlickReed
12-05-2015, 13:45
AI and player are 100% running different physics I agree.

Agreed

Roger Prynne
12-05-2015, 13:46
Yeah a lot of complaints/videos about the AI being bad are defiantly because of the humans bad driving skills, I mean how do they expect to get away with some of the ridiculous moves they pull.
On saying that I know the AI and collision physics are not perfect but they have got to be the best in any racing sim yet.

vicdavery
12-05-2015, 13:53
I'm just waiting to see how many of the people moaning about the AI also turn up moaning about people knocking them off the track, or taking to the grass when they play online. :)

Sankyo
12-05-2015, 14:10
Cause the AI is broken beyond race-able.

AI seems to have god powers and they know it! They crash into you making you almost always lift of either one side of the car.

Collision impact models are just plain wrong. AI and user vehicle are not handling by the same models. As if the AI is on rails (they never seem to go up sky high).

As long i'm in the lead of a race, things are perfect. I can race just fine without the need to fly over AI's. Here's a very small compilation video I made of a few godlike AI crashes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bcg4w6YD6g
HD is still processing while posting.

I hope these problems can be fixed asap as I like to race in between cars and not on a 6 second lead all the time. :)
The collisions with the Escort are iffy it seems, SMS is looking into it. However, you could make your racing a lot more enjoyable if you'd improve your driving. It's not my intention to bash you, but here's my analysis of your video as genuine feedback:

0:04: You slide outward in the corner and into the AI's driving line.
0:11: The AI has the driving line as you're not completely on his inside by far.
0:21: The AI is driving on the race line and you come up from behind and just drive into him.
0:28: You slide into the AI's rear.
0:43: You're not sticking to your line but move across the corner and into the AI.
0:50: AI is keeping its line and you move into it.
1:17: AI takes its committed racing line and you move into it.

In all these cases you cannot expect the AI to jump out of the way. They expect you to acknowledge their place and driving line on the circuit, and expect you to keep your line as well. Once you do that, there will be much less collisions to possibly ruin your racing. Keep in mind that if you'd race like this with proper damage, you'd be out of the race within two laps because of too much damage to your car ;)

FloF000
12-05-2015, 14:44
Ultra fast reaction of the dev team. The vehicle guys are working machines and already updated the collision model of the Escort. It seems like it allowed too much tire contact which lifted the car.

Franco Ferrari
12-05-2015, 14:59
Ultra fast reaction of the dev team. The vehicle guys are working machines and already updated the collision model of the Escort. It seems like it allowed too much tire contact which lifted the car.


I'll clarify it a bit, otherwise within 10 minutes people will try to reset their xBoxes and PS4s in order to get an update that is not out yet...
What FloF000 is trying to say is that the DEVS already checked the Escort collision problem, found a fault, corrected the "collision box", exported an updated version and posted an update post in the WMD (private) forum to inform WMD members of this fact.

To recap all this, the Escort collision problem of the OP video is solved, and will probably be available in an upcoming (to be announced) patch.

heppsan
12-05-2015, 14:59
For sure the AI isn't perfect, but neither is any online human driver :) Here's an example of the typical fun I have with the AI (default 80%), starting from the back. Note that the few contacts I had with the AI were my fault to begin with ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO9IFWCtWds

If the human drivers was driving like this irl I don't think they had got their Racing license, or at least wouldn't have got a spot in any of the teams..

For all who thinks that this is the best AI out there haven't played enough racing sims.
The ranking of best sim AI's imo:
R3E
GSCE
Race 07
GTL
Pcars
AC


And I just want to add, that I don't nag about this just to bash this game, there are many things in it I really like.
I just want it to be the best it can, so that we can enjoy it more!

baronesbc
12-05-2015, 17:51
If the human drivers was driving like this irl I don't think they had got their Racing license, or at least wouldn't have got a spot in any of the teams..

For all who thinks that this is the best AI out there haven't played enough racing sims.
The ranking of best sim AI's imo:
R3E
GSCE
Race 07
GTL
Pcars
AC


And I just want to add, that I don't nag about this just to bash this game, there are many things in it I really like.
I just want it to be the best it can, so that we can enjoy it more!

Indeed, but some people are more focused on defending the game, rather than to note obvious flaws, without which everyone will have a better gaming experience.
No one has commented my video, that strange. I'd be curious to know the human errors in it, which led the AI to hit me when i was in front with some gap also, or the reason why they flied off the track in the attempt to "overtake" the car in front. My fault sure.

Potentially the AI of Pcars is great, very alive, but needs more competitiveness, and sure less aggressiveness.. would be useful to have the possibility to set it with a slide, so we are all happy

Howie
12-05-2015, 18:14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR0r6AnQS1Q
charged hundreds of feet ahead despite being in deeper sand. We can never know what a car will do under particular conditions. See the Ferrari at 40 sec. We just got to make excuses for our present AI. If it helps any, real drivers get equally frustrated with other real drivers. Resulting in fist fights!

Howie
12-05-2015, 18:18
AC's AI isn't even up to AI of 15 years ago. That's why I haven't been driving it of late. They just pile up behind slower cars and rarely ever try and pass? Also AC can only run about 30 AI, without killing a high end CPU.

JesseDeya
12-05-2015, 18:34
Cause the AI is broken beyond race-able.

AI seems to have god powers and they know it! They crash into you making you almost always lift of either one side of the car.

Collision impact models are just plain wrong. AI and user vehicle are not handling by the same models. As if the AI is on rails (they never seem to go up sky high).

As long i'm in the lead of a race, things are perfect. I can race just fine without the need to fly over AI's. Here's a very small compilation video I made of a few godlike AI crashes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bcg4w6YD6g
HD is still processing while posting.

I hope these problems can be fixed asap as I like to race in between cars and not on a 6 second lead all the time. :)

To be fair, you caused every single one of those crashes. You can't overtake just by stuffing it up the inside under breaking and expect everyone to get out of your way.

I do agree the collision physics look a bit wonky though, not sure why the car rides up on it's side like that. Can be avoided by not crashing though :cool:.

DayGlow
12-05-2015, 18:47
Crash physics may have some issues, but every crash in the OP was caused by the driver, not the AI

heppsan
12-05-2015, 20:44
Indeed, but some people are more focused on defending the game, rather than to note obvious flaws, without which everyone will have a better gaming experience.
No one has commented my video, that strange. I'd be curious to know the human errors in it, which led the AI to hit me when i was in front with some gap also, or the reason why they flied off the track in the attempt to "overtake" the car in front. My fault sure.

Potentially the AI of Pcars is great, very alive, but needs more competitiveness, and sure less aggressiveness.. would be useful to have the possibility to set it with a slide, so we are all happy

Yup, being a fanboy doesn't do any good, and certainly won't improve the game!

The AI have potential, but needs more tweaking.
They need to use the brakes more, and respect the cut track rules more than making contact with other cars!
And also pick a line and hold it, and stop fleeing to the field every time a car is closer than 50 inches!!

Paulmilly
12-05-2015, 20:48
Canyou please fix the A I reckless driving, shunted in the back or they just turn into you when passing. The game is broken until this is fixed IMO

NinjaTrek2891
12-05-2015, 21:00
I'll clarify it a bit, otherwise within 10 minutes people will try to reset their xBoxes and PS4s in order to get an update that is not out yet...
What FloF000 is trying to say is that the DEVS already checked the Escort collision problem, found a fault, corrected the "collision box", exported an updated version and posted an update post in the WMD (private) forum to inform WMD members of this fact.

To recap all this, the Escort collision problem of the OP video is solved, and will probably be available in an upcoming (to be announced) patch.

Great news! Thanks for the update :)

marksy
12-05-2015, 21:10
youve obviously never seen touring car drivers having fun lol i love the AI its frantic just like touring cars should be, you drive clam and take your time they will too if you try and hussle them theyll bussle you
Maybe is just that the error, create an AI thinking of the public servers online, that have little to do with real races most of the time.
Why not inspire the AI directly to real races? or to private leagues, which can be defined as real racing?

AI at 100%, look how they end up off the track in a desperate attempt to overcome the rider in front, look how they exagerate always in braking, searching an impossible overtake.. they seem the classic idiots in public server who run without respect for the opponent ruining the race to the other drivers:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_E5IIAcQ_0

We need just a slide to adjust the aggressiveness (and imho an highest difficulty level), problem solved.

DayGlow
12-05-2015, 21:33
Also depends on the style of racing you are used to. If you only have 5 or less laps in a race you take risks you really shouldn't. It may take a few laps to setup a single overtake and to do it safely.

dyr_gl
12-05-2015, 21:59
You guys need to work on this. They're pretty smart side by side but total idiots behind you. Make them brake earlier into the big stops and get out of corners better, then you'll have something enjoyable to race, faster and harder to beat. A perfect AI is impossible but getting it to the level of other games is a must.

NinjaTrek2891
13-05-2015, 00:14
You guys need to work on this. They're pretty smart side by side but total idiots behind you. Make them brake earlier into the big stops and get out of corners better, then you'll have something enjoyable to race, faster and harder to beat. A perfect AI is impossible but getting it to the level of other games is a must.

I'm uploading a video where they are trying to get in turn 2 all at the same time... So I went up from 16 to 4... just had to evade some less speedy cars that reentered the track as they belong there :)

gizziegod
13-05-2015, 00:41
i have seen this car jumping on more than one car but i will say its usually when i have totally missed my breaking point but not always. i see the AI can be both brilliant and terrible. i have lost count of the amount of times they have overtaken me by cutting the track on the inside when im on the apex

baronesbc
13-05-2015, 09:15
youve obviously never seen touring car drivers having fun lol i love the AI its frantic just like touring cars should be, you drive clam and take your time they will too if you try and hussle them theyll bussle you
I don't think that drivers in reality have fun when someone push them out of the track attempting an impossible overtake.
You are trying to justify the behavior of AI that is totally wrong. The key thing, online or in reality, is to racing in the respect of the opponent. Ofcourse shit happens sometimes, but these attitudes are not well received, never, because they are misconduct.

At the moment each AI does always the same thing, at every braking, at every corner, with every car (not only touring cars). They always try to "overtake" even when they are very far away from the car infront and have no chance.
And as you can see in the video, when they don't hit the car infront, they end up off track because they push so hard that haven't any possibility to brake the car in time.
This attitude is typical of the idiots in multiplayer that want to ruin the race to other players. People like these are banned from the server usually, because no one wants to compete with people like that.

However I repeat, with a simple slide to set the aggressiveness, the problem is solved. Do you want to race against these jackass? set the slide to 100%. I want a real race, and set it to a lower level.
So we are all happy and satisfied.