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yuetwahanson
12-05-2015, 08:33
Before I get the disc, I found out so many software and second screen app from official website

Website: http://www.projectcarsgame.com/apps.html

Apps List:
pCARS Dash
HUD Dash
sin:speed sim racing instruments
DashMeterPro
pCARS Profiler
pCARS Telemetry
vrHive

etc

But which one can fully support Console PS4? Do anyone try to use successfully? Or does it just support PC only?

Blackvault
12-05-2015, 09:09
Before I get the disc, I found out so many software and second screen app from official website

Website: http://www.projectcarsgame.com/apps.html

Apps List:
pCARS Dash
HUD Dash
sin:speed sim racing instruments
DashMeterPro
pCARS Profiler
pCARS Telemetry
vrHive

etc

But which one can fully support Console PS4? Do anyone try to use successfully? Or does it just support PC only?

Unfortunately these are only for PC. I believe Microsoft and Sony are closed systems and don't offer this ability.

Hope this helps.

Pete

momotaone
12-05-2015, 09:34
Unfortunately these are only for PC. I believe Microsoft and Sony are closed systems and don't offer this ability.

Hope this helps.

Pete

Wait a moment! You "believe" that this are closed systems and don't offer this ability?
Where come this information from?

Have a look at this:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ubisoft.watchdogs.ctos&hl=de

This app above is nearly the same: Its a app outside of the system of Microsoft / Sony and does work directly with the game?
You even can play online-Multiplayer against other users, on your android-phone with the app. ( Game is Watchdogs for PS4/PS3/Xbox 360 / Xbox 1)

So this can not be true! It's possible. The question is: Will the console-players be the one paying for NOT participating on the development of the game?
Why are console-players threated like this?
PC-Game is 1. cheaper 2. has a lots of additional content 3. gets more support from you

What is this? Sort this out, please! Project Cars turned out to be far the best Sim Racer on consoles ! Please don't destroy this, by letting the console-players down! Please!

Blackvault
12-05-2015, 09:38
Wait a moment! You "believe" that this are closed systems and don't offer this ability?
Where come this information from?

Have a look at this:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ubisoft.watchdogs.ctos&hl=de

This app above is nearly the same: Its a app outside of the system of Microsoft / Sony and does work directly with the game?
You even can play online-Multiplayer against other users, on your android-phone with the app. ( Game is Watchdogs for PS4/PS3/Xbox 360 / Xbox 1)

So this can not be true! It's possible. The question is: Will the console-players be the one paying for NOT participating on the development of the game?
Why are console-players threated like this?
PC-Game is 1. cheaper 2. has a lots of additional content 3. gets more support from you

What is this? Sort this out, please! Project Cars turned out to be far the best Sim Racer on consoles ! Please don't destroy this, by letting the console-players down! Please!

Yes I believe. Just because I have an orange name doesn't mean I have all the answers.

I sort of have answered this question in this post here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23801-Nope-PS4-amp-Steam-Account-play-together&p=901461&viewfull=1#post901461).

Please don't use that attitude here, it isn't helpful to anyone.

Pete

HeeseyChelmet
12-05-2015, 09:48
Wait a moment! You "believe" that this are closed systems and don't offer this ability?
Where come this information from?

Have a look at this:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ubisoft.watchdogs.ctos&hl=de

This app above is nearly the same: Its a app outside of the system of Microsoft / Sony and does work directly with the game?
You even can play online-Multiplayer against other users, on your android-phone with the app. ( Game is Watchdogs for PS4/PS3/Xbox 360 / Xbox 1)

So this can not be true! It's possible. The question is: Will the console-players be the one paying for NOT participating on the development of the game?
Why are console-players threated like this?
PC-Game is 1. cheaper 2. has a lots of additional content 3. gets more support from you

What is this? Sort this out, please! Project Cars turned out to be far the best Sim Racer on consoles ! Please don't destroy this, by letting the console-players down! Please!

Seriously? PC's are far more open and flexible to work with. Just because a feature is in one game on a particular platform, doesn't mean its available on another. Enjoy the game for what it is for now and see what comes in the future

HewisLamilton6
12-05-2015, 09:49
Hi, do we know if there will be any external apps coming to the ps4 version?

The ones with PC are unreal!

MysterG
12-05-2015, 09:52
Merged with existing thread.

Sorry the answer is not what you want to hear :(

Blackvault
12-05-2015, 09:52
Hi, do we know if there will be any external apps coming to the ps4 version?

The ones with PC are unreal!

I refer you to post 2 of this thread.

Edit - didn't you you were merging MysterG

Pete

djmky
12-05-2015, 09:54
Great idea, I would have loved to see an app give real-time data whilst driving. Yes, I believe it is possible. However, the scope of this project (looking from the outside) doesn't have this add on at the top of the priority list for now. Which doesn't mean it might not happen in future developments. (I build apps, let me know if you need help with this aspect).

momotaone
12-05-2015, 09:55
Yes I believe. Just because I have an orange name doesn't mean I have all the answers.

I sort of have answered this question in this post here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23801-Nope-PS4-amp-Steam-Account-play-together&p=901461&viewfull=1#post901461).

Please don't use that attitude here, it isn't helpful to anyone.

Pete

Yeah, I'm sorry for that, was not my intention.
But you'll have patience for the console-players and also our favour.
I've paid over 60 € for the Standard-Boxed game... only to learn afterwards that I'll not get the special packs, everyone else will get.
Then on consoles we are facing numerous of limitation, bugs and problems.

And when I enter the official forum of the game, see this Thread tagged with "[Nope]" and the answer is like: "No available"... then, I think you'll understand, that I have lost my patience for a moment.
Of course again: I'm sorry for that. But I think SMS has a lot to do here.
It's not, that they have done something bad, This game is awesome! Was waiting for this so long and it was better than my expectations! But when I see, that there is not a balance, that I've to pay two times the game as a pc-player does... then I don't want to see PC-Players getting better support then console-players.

Understand my intention?

HewisLamilton6
12-05-2015, 09:55
ok ..


I refer you to post 2 of this thread.

Edit - didn't you you were merging MysterG

Pete

momotaone
12-05-2015, 09:59
Seriously? PC's are far more open and flexible to work with. Just because a feature is in one game on a particular platform, doesn't mean its available on another. Enjoy the game for what it is for now and see what comes in the future

Yes seriously... This app I mentioned is just ONE example of a huge amount of. If you have a look into the android-store just searching for "companion app" you'll find a huge amount of apps for console games. And most of them where available for the old console-generation also... -> This has nothing to do with PC flexibility!

so please! Before responding to a topic, without knowledge, please don't post!

Thank you!

djmky
12-05-2015, 10:14
Yeah, I'm sorry for that, was not my intention.
But you'll have patience for the console-players and also our favour.
I've paid over 60 for the Standard-Boxed game... only to learn afterwards that I'll not get the special packs, everyone else will get.
Then on consoles we are facing numerous of limitation, bugs and problems.

And when I enter the official forum of the game, see this Thread tagged with "[Nope]" and the answer is like: "No available"... then, I think you'll understand, that I have lost my patience for a moment.
Of course again: I'm sorry for that. But I think SMS has a lot to do here.
It's not, that they have done something bad, This game is awesome! Was waiting for this so long and it was better than my expectations! But when I see, that there is not a balance, that I've to pay two times the game as a pc-player does... then I don't want to see PC-Players getting better support then console-players.

Understand my intention?

I can understand your frustration, though how much does a PC player pay for his computer? We pay / 300 for a PS4, they can pay /1000+. Being like yourself a PS4 player, I would like same ability as PC players. However, looking at the performance of a PC and the scope for customisation we will never be on par with them. Which is fair enough in my opinion. I don't feel like spending that amount of money on a PC, though others are happy too (thats cool). Given that they are spending more money (overall), the ability to integrate more customisation is available i.e. custom apps / make your own custom liveries / better performance (12k resolution) / etc.

Saying all that I still believe we will be able to get custom apps / custom liveries / better performance (not 12k tho, lol) on the PS4. The process will take time, and ultimately be frustration for end users like yourself until it becomes available. Though throughout this entire forum, all I have read is SMS are working on improving it, so rest assured they're working on making it better.

Blackvault
12-05-2015, 10:18
Yeah, I'm sorry for that, was not my intention.
But you'll have patience for the console-players and also our favour.
I've paid over 60 € for the Standard-Boxed game... only to learn afterwards that I'll not get the special packs, everyone else will get.
Then on consoles we are facing numerous of limitation, bugs and problems.

And when I enter the official forum of the game, see this Thread tagged with "[Nope]" and the answer is like: "No available"... then, I think you'll understand, that I have lost my patience for a moment.
Of course again: I'm sorry for that. But I think SMS has a lot to do here.
It's not, that they have done something bad, This game is awesome! Was waiting for this so long and it was better than my expectations! But when I see, that there is not a balance, that I've to pay two times the game as a pc-player does... then I don't want to see PC-Players getting better support then console-players.

Understand my intention?

Apology accepted.
We are well aware of the issues that the consoles have however WMD is working very hard in getting these resolved to offer you a better experience.

We tag threads with [Nope], or [Not available] to give an instant answer to readers to save them having to trawl through threads for the answer.

Pete

4L0M
12-05-2015, 10:28
In regards to the original post, PC games are normally cheaper than their console counterparts due to not having to pay a licensing fee to Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo. I also don't see why an app couldn't be developed using the xbox smart glass app, but I'm sure the devs have far more pressing matters to attend to first.

cjorgens79
14-05-2015, 11:45
I developed the pCars Dash companion app for Project Cars so i can comment on this. I have already received many queries about this, but while its not currently possible to use the companion apps on consoles due to the api method that was used, there is no reason (that I'm aware of) as to why this couldn't be changed in the future. I have submitted a feature request regarding this (as have a few others) as well as suggestions as to how this could be achieved so hopefully (fingers crossed) in the future SMS will be able to allocate some resources to this so that console players can enjoy the benefits of companion apps with Project Cars as the PC players do. Cheers

-Brick_Top-
16-05-2015, 15:58
Here's an idea that I am surprised hasent already been implemented but what's wrong with using the ps4 apps second screen functionality for displaying all the information available? I'm sure a lot of people would find it very useful there's already loads of games that offer second screen functionality

-Brick_Top-
28-05-2015, 21:32
Bump for ps4 utilising official ps app second screen functionality on android pretty please devs :loyal:

jason
29-05-2015, 05:19
Bump for ps4 utilising official ps app second screen functionality on android pretty please devs :loyal:

This would just finish it off nicely ......cmon guys if it isn't in the works , make it happen.

Fre.Mo
29-05-2015, 14:47
I don t understand why second screen app is not possible with pcars on ps4 since it is working with Battlefield 4?

Blackvault
29-05-2015, 14:49
I don t understand why second screen app is not possible with pcars on ps4 since it is working with Battlefield 4?

Mostly it is due to developer of BF4, throwing money at Sony to make it happen. You have to remember that SMS/WMD is a very small outfit and currently can't compete against the giants of the industry at the moment.

Pete

madmax2069
29-05-2015, 17:34
Another example of a multi platform (PS4 and PC) game that has a comanion app (that works on both platforms)

War Thunder on PC and PS4

War Thunder Tactical Map (its a unoffical app as well). https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.junkcode.warthundertacticalmap

It works by using your local network to connect the app to the system.

tgrey
28-06-2015, 10:10
I was so excited when I saw the second screen apps for this game. Then I realized they were PC only :(

Bumping/subbing here in hopes of future news on this tho.

Psebcool
18-07-2015, 18:17
I think that is totally possible.

Because Fallout 4 will have a second screen (PipBoy application) who works on Android system for PS4, One and PC.

!!!

TrueNOS2
20-07-2015, 16:27
Let's keep this issue alive. cjorgens79 has verified that it would be possible and I for one would really like to see this feature soon. Let's un-cross our fingers and perhaps start a thread petitioning this request.

TrueNOS2
20-07-2015, 16:43
Wow, my previous thread under "General Discussion" has been closed by Moderator Roger Prynne? It seams that there is contradictory information on this. At the very least if this is truly not possible then the information and disclosure statement should be removed from the Official Project Cars website under Apps pCars Dash pertaining to the possibility as this is very misleading.

Ian Bell
20-07-2015, 16:44
Wow, my previous thread under "General Discussion" has been closed by Moderator Roger Prynne? It seams that there is contradictory information on this. At the very least if this is truly not possible then the information and disclosure statement should be removed from the Official Project Cars website under Apps pCars Dash pertaining to the possibility as this is very misleading.

Wow indeed. This is very misleading.

Hold on, the word 'possibly' might have something to do with it.

Let me elaborate. You're shouting at third parties, who work hard to make apps for the game who don't know if their app can or can't work with consoles. They don't have dev kits for consoles, they don't have access to SDK's or console forums. They can't possibly know, so they might use the word 'possibly'...

cjorgens79
21-07-2015, 00:41
Thanks Ian, that is 100% correct. I do not know whether or not its possible to have our apps work with the PS4/XBox versions of Project Cars and as mentioned on my website, we (the third party app community) have requested SMS to look into the possibility of this. At no point did we say it was possible or was not going to be possible.

Fanatest
21-07-2015, 13:52
So just for clarity,
As the thread thread title has been updated to "Not Possible" is that the final word in the matter?

These apps won't be coming to the console versions for PCars, regardless of other console games having similar app support?

TrueNOS2
21-07-2015, 15:55
Clarity indeed:
Notice regarding pCars Dash and PS4 / XBox1
At the moment its not possible to use pCars Dash with the PS4 or XB1 version of Project Cars because the Project Cars interface which pCars Dash links to is only available on the PC. We have requested that Slightly Mad Studios (the makers of Project Cars) look at adding an interface that can allow this app (and other 3rd party apps) to work with the PS4 and XB1 versions. Hopefully this will happen in the near future so this app and others can be made available to all Project Cars players.
I am not trying to be a pain in the a** but rather know that I am not alone in this feature request and know that for us fans of this already great game that this would make the experience just a little better and more realistic like our PC counterparts already enjoy. Let's hope that this is just one of those "almost absolutely sure that this is not possible" situations and perhaps a little more research can be done by SMS to somehow make this happen. "Nothing is Not Possible"

TrueNOS2
21-07-2015, 16:07
This thread makes it to page 2 (33rd) on the most viewed list. Just sayin'.

cjorgens79
22-07-2015, 00:39
So just for clarity,
As the thread thread title has been updated to "Not Possible" is that the final word in the matter?


I think the person (another regular forum user) who started this thread changed that a while ago. Not sure why, or whether they intended it to mean not currently possible.

cjorgens79
22-07-2015, 00:51
Ok to clarify this (as i wrote that notice on my website) "At the moment its not possible" is me referring to the shared memory api only existing on the PC version of Project Cars which means its not currently possible to use my app with any other version (PS4/XB1) of Project Cars. I was not saying that its not possible for an api to be developed that would make my app usable with the consoles. I think that the shared memory API model currently used would not be suitable for the consoles due to the nature of it, but i have proposed an option which i think might be good possible alternative.

Don't get me wrong, i want an api that would work with the consoles probably more than just about any of you guys, as the console market is much bigger than the PC market so its very worthwhile from my perspective in terms of selling apps. Again though we need to wait until SMS can investigate the possibility of an alternate api so that the consoles can also use the addon apps like pCars Dash.

madmax2069
22-07-2015, 00:54
I hate to say it but it is too possible. So many games on PS4 (and even xbox one) has this capability and do it with ease.

War Thunder on PS4 (as well as PC) has a third-party app that works with the game (the app communicates with your system through local network). The game on PS4 didnt support it at first and was PC only feature.

(I think the below apps use the internet to communicate with the game you're playing, and dont communicate like the above app)
Battlefield has a app.

COD has a app.

Watchdogs has a app.

Destiny has a app.

The upcoming fallout 4 is going to have a App that works directly with the game (pip-boy)

And a few others.


So its definitely possible.

madmax2069
22-07-2015, 00:56
Please delete.

TrueNOS2
22-07-2015, 15:05
Hello cjorgens79 and thank you for the clarification. It looks like the ball is back in SMS's court. I just hope that they do something with it. As you've pointed out the console market is a much bigger market and this needs attention. And, as madmax2069 has also pointed out the fact that other games on PS4 afford this ability there is no reason why Project Cars and SMS could not achieve this. I won't say "let's keep our fingers crossed" because crossed fingers do not get any work done. C'mon guys let's get this happening.
Oh yes, and how can we get the [Not Possible] prefix removed and have it say something like [W.I.P.] or just removed ;~).

IronMask75
22-07-2015, 21:30
Just voicing my support for an official pCARS Companion App. War Thunder's 3rd party Companion App may work because of the cross-platform nature of the game (isn't it essentially a web-browser game with a fancy UI?). Yes, we know that many games have companion apps; Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag has one too, but I think it is totally in the hands of the game developer to make a companion app. I don't see why Sony would allow the Second Screen API (which is a core feature of the PS4 system, btw. Every game and developer has access to it) to be accessed by random community people. That could theoretically allow an attack vector for someone to hack the system.

So I too think that the Companion App is completely possible, but it is in the hands of SMS to make an official one. I would love to have the Race Monitor up on Second Screen while in a race and be able to switch between that and the Telemetry Screen to see when my brakes and tires are on the way out.

Please, SMS, make us a companion app!

madmax2069
22-07-2015, 21:47
Just voicing my support for an official pCARS Companion App. War Thunder's 3rd party Companion App may work because of the cross-platform nature of the game (isn't it essentially a web-browser game with a fancy UI?). Yes, we know that many games have companion apps; Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag has one too, but I think it is totally in the hands of the game developer to make a companion app. I don't see why Sony would allow the Second Screen API (which is a core feature of the PS4 system, btw. Every game and developer has access to it) to be accessed by random community people. That could theoretically allow an attack vector for someone to hack the system.

So I too think that the Companion App is completely possible, but it is in the hands of SMS to make an official one. I would love to have the Race Monitor up on Second Screen while in a race and be able to switch between that and the Telemetry Screen to see when my brakes and tires are on the way out.

Please, SMS, make us a companion app!

War Thunder was never a web browser based game.

flatspunout
23-07-2015, 19:43
Voicing my support for this feature as well. I feel that supporting apps on mobile devices is going to be the norm very shortly and developers who aren't working on implementing this are going to miss the boat. It's time we get more from our "next gen" consoles than just pretty graphics. All IMO

Pappa_Stig
24-07-2015, 05:28
I'm also very interested in this feature. I've got the ps4 second screen app on my Galaxy tablet, as the tablet just doesn't get used, and I had kind of expected this gen of racing games to take advantage of the second screen functionality of the ps4 for live telemetry, virtual dash etc.

jason
24-07-2015, 05:37
It just makes cense to have this type of thing in a car game and no one is taking advantage of it :(

IronMask75
25-07-2015, 02:10
It kind of reminds me of the Logitech Game Panel debacle for the G15 Gaming Keyboard. Logitech said "Hey look at this cool new feature our keyboards have!" and then left it totally in the hands of game developers and the community to make the apps for it. Of course game developers are pretty lazy when it comes to making custom stuff for 3rd party devices, so most of the apps were rubbish and the only decent community plugin was SirReal's Panel, which went to a paid model after some time, making the free version less useful.

The only thing that would have made Game Panel successful was if Logitech supported their own damn product and created the apps in-house instead of relying on everyone else to do their hard work for them. Getting the same vibe from Project Cars apps.

TrueNOS2
25-07-2015, 03:20
Well, I'm glad to see that this is gaining a little momentum. Let's try to keep this at the top until we get some results. If you have a friend in these forums maybe give them a nudge to chime in so we can get the reply count up and keep this going. There has to be a solution to make this happen especially when other developers are doing it for other games. I paid my hard earned money to have a full functioning simulation on the PS4 that would be equal in function across all platforms. C'mon Slightly Mad Studios you can do it.

TheReaper GT
25-07-2015, 03:31
I want that function as much as any of you, but I don't know a single game that have access to shared memory to release data over network. The few that have secondary apps function work on the account level and do not trade the amount of data necessary to real time telemetry. They just update tables or preload graphics.

madmax2069
25-07-2015, 04:58
I want that function as much as any of you, but I don't know a single game that have access to shared memory to release data over network. The few that have secondary apps function work on the account level and do not trade the amount of data necessary to real time telemetry. They just update tables or preload graphics.

It wouldn't need for that if the function was built into the game. The only reason why they have to do it like this right now is because it takes a second program running on the computer to latch onto the games memory, of it was apart of the game itself it would have to be done this way.

War thunder does this. And works on PS4 with a 3rd party app for android. All you have to do is input your systems internal IP and the app will connect to the game and relay a bunch of onfo to the app. They dont use the PS4s second screen API, the same android app that works on PC also works on PS4, im not talking about the official war thunder assistant, im talking about a 3rd party app called war thunder tactical map.

TheReaper GT
25-07-2015, 05:05
It wouldn't need for that if the function was built into the game. The only reason why they have to do it like this right now is because it takes a second program running on the computer to latch onto the games memory.

War thunder does this. And works on PS4 with a 3rd party app for android. All you have to do is input your systems internal IP and the app will connect to the game and relay a bunch of onfo to the app. They dont use the PS4s second screen API, the same android app that works on PC also works on PS4, im not talking about the official war thunder assistant, im talking about a 3rd party app called war thunder tactical map.

What's that war thunder app? The ones I found don't have access to live information, just a console relay feedback.

madmax2069
25-07-2015, 05:07
What's that war thunder app? The ones I found don't have access to live information, just a console relay feedback.

Its called war thunder tactical map.

TheReaper GT
25-07-2015, 05:08
Its called war thunder tactical map.

Gonna have a look at it, sounds interesting. Time to fire up the ps4 :D

Edit: that one?https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.junkcode.warthundertacticalmap

madmax2069
25-07-2015, 05:11
Gonna have a look at it, sounds interesting. Time to fire up the ps4 :D

You can set it up to alert you to a enemy if they get within a custom set distance from you. It shows who you have targeted, your flight path and so on.

TheReaper GT
25-07-2015, 05:12
You can set it up to alert you to a enemy if they get within a custom set distance from you. It shows who you have targeted, your flight path and so on.

It's that one?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.junkcode.warthundertacticalmap

madmax2069
25-07-2015, 05:13
It's that one?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.junkcode.warthundertacticalmap

Yes sir

TheReaper GT
25-07-2015, 05:17
Yes sir

I'm reading the war thunder cdk and the app's documentation. Seems very good but not quite what project cars need. Gonna read it again, trying to understand some gaps.

madmax2069
25-07-2015, 05:21
I'm reading the war thunder cdk and the app's documentation. Seems very good but not quite what project cars need. Gonna read it again, trying to understand some gaps.

It all depends on what the devs want to have available, I mean they could make it to send out throttle, engine rpm, engine temp, fuel mixture and so on if they wanted.

Its still live data.

cjorgens79
25-07-2015, 06:00
I want that function as much as any of you, but I don't know a single game that have access to shared memory to release data over network. The few that have secondary apps function work on the account level and do not trade the amount of data necessary to real time telemetry. They just update tables or preload graphics.

Yeah shared memory wouldn't be the way to go with consoles. Ideally (IMO) Project Cars would output a UDP stream of the telemetry data in something like json (or have a UDP server that apps could connect to). The update rate needs to be fairly high for telemetry apps, my pCars Dash app works this way (my transmitter converts the shared memory api into a UDP json stream for the mobile apps to work from). As UDP is a standard networking protocol if they were to output (or host a udp server) i dont see any reason why it wouldn't work on the consoles as they are effectively just PC's (unless they have restrictive firewalls, i'm not that familiar with the consoles OS myself).

TheReaper GT
25-07-2015, 06:03
Yeah shared memory wouldn't be the way to go with consoles. Ideally (IMO) Project Cars would output a UDP stream of the telemetry data in something like json (or have a UDP server that apps could connect to). The update rate needs to be fairly high for telemetry apps, my pCars Dash app works this way (my transmitter converts the shared memory api into a UDP json stream for the mobile apps to work from). As UDP is a standard networking protocol if they were to output (or host a udp server) i dont see any reason why it wouldn't work on the consoles as they are effectively just PC's (unless they have restrictive firewalls, i'm not that familiar with the consoles OS myself).

With a udp output your app would work out of the box or you would have to detect the console and than bypass the conversion step?

TrueNOS2
25-07-2015, 14:06
UDP server/client should work. How do we actually get someone from SMS to listen? Is there somebody that we could perhaps appeal to via Private Message or email direct? I don't think anyone from SMS is reading these forum posts as I have yet to see them respond to this thread.

TheReaper GT
25-07-2015, 15:30
UDP server/client should work. How do we actually get someone from SMS to listen? Is there somebody that we could perhaps appeal to via Private Message or email direct? I don't think anyone from SMS is reading these forum posts as I have yet to see them respond to this thread.

They already have their response, for them, it's not possible. I don't think they need to lie to you. We don't know about console limitations. We don't know the extent of data released by other games and the delay that they have. Even half a second could be missed by the user of war thunder but unacceptable for reaching telemetry.

cjorgens79
26-07-2015, 03:06
With a udp output your app would work out of the box or you would have to detect the console and than bypass the conversion step?

If they happened to make their udp server output in the exact same format as my transmitter then it would work out of the box, however thats highly unlikely. I would expect that i would need to make changes to my app to make it compatible with any solution they come up with.

cjorgens79
26-07-2015, 03:10
They already have their response, for them, it's not possible. I don't think they need to lie to you. We don't know about console limitations. We don't know the extent of data released by other games and the delay that they have. Even half a second could be missed by the user of war thunder but unacceptable for reaching telemetry.

Maybe i missed something from another thread but I don't think they said definitively that its not possible, i think they said that 3rd party developers like myself are unlikely to know for sure if its possible or not because we don't have access to the SDKs for the consoles. In regards to SMS reading these threads, someone must be as we had Ian Bell who is one of the top guys at SMS making a statement in this thread earlier.

Bluedice
26-07-2015, 03:15
They already have their response, for them, it's not possible. I don't think they need to lie to you. We don't know about console limitations. We don't know the extent of data released by other games and the delay that they have. Even half a second could be missed by the user of war thunder but unacceptable for reaching telemetry.

It is possible, just not for them I guess. The latency woul probably run around 250ms which for something that would be merely for monitoring and not actually registering anything I think it would pretty acceptable. But anyways I doubt they will do anything on that front.

cjorgens79
26-07-2015, 09:57
It is possible, just not for them I guess. The latency woul probably run around 250ms which for something that would be merely for monitoring and not actually registering anything I think it would pretty acceptable. But anyways I doubt they will do anything on that front.

How did you come to this figure of 250ms?

TrueNOS2
30-07-2015, 00:14
We slipped to page 3. SMS, do you have any news for us?

wickedlaw
04-08-2015, 12:10
Hello,

I'm going to ask just to make sure: Is there any possibility to get the telemetry from during a race/warmup/.. in order to analyse it on Mac/PC?

From what I've seen, there is no support at the moment.

Which leads me to my second question: Are there any plans to support this? Or is the data uploaded somewhere on pCars servers so to be able to retrieve it? I would gladly code that :)

Thanks!

Liquid7394
04-08-2015, 12:15
Nope. I don't believe there are any plans to support this either, you'll have to play on a PC if you want these features.

BulletEyeDK
04-08-2015, 12:34
Would be really awesome to get at feature like this for the console users, it can't be that hard to implement that feature.

Biggest hurdle is probably dealing with MS and SONY about how to....

Bluedice
04-08-2015, 12:35
Nope. I don't believe there are any plans to support this either, you'll have to play on a PC if you want these features.

Which is a real shame since -- for what I know -- we don't even have a telemetry analyzer in the game like GT6 has. So if they plan to keep marketing PCars as a full on simulator on consoles they must start to consider some of these things.

Bluedice
04-08-2015, 12:44
Would be really awesome to get at feature like this for the console users, it can't be that hard to implement that feature.

Biggest hurdle is probably dealing with MS and SONY about how to....


I don't think they have to ask Sony or Microsoft, they have their API and its either there or not. I'm pretty sure it is already part of the PS4 API because it was part of the PS3 API. GT6 had tools that read files from external drives and GT7 will most likely have the same features, so I guess it's already there.

inthebagbud
04-08-2015, 13:00
The only thing that you can do is review the telemetry screen / video of your drive using one of these

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?34592-Saving-amp-viewing-replays

rocafella1978
04-08-2015, 13:17
NOT POSSIBLE on PS4...on consoles not seeing it being possible, since either closed systems, and maybe too expensive? not sure. (Microsoft and Sony are closed systems and don't offer this.)

this is the original thread: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?24031-Not-Possible-Second-Screen-amp-Apps-on-PS4/page6

I think moderators can merge these together.

Fanatest
04-08-2015, 14:57
This situation reminds me of the wheel compatibility situation...

Some game developers said "it's SONY'S fault" regarding the lack of wheel compatibility, so users grabbed their pitchforks, and went hunting... only to find out that they were duped!

Sony stated that their ecosystem is an open system, and developers are allowed to add comparability for almost anything they want into their game.


This situation just reeks of that again to me.

Fanatest
04-08-2015, 15:02
NOT POSSIBLE on PS4...on consoles not seeing it being possible, since either closed systems, and maybe too expensive? not sure. (Microsoft and Sony are closed systems and don't offer this.)

this is the original thread: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?24031-Not-Possible-Second-Screen-amp-Apps-on-PS4/page6

I think moderators can merge these together.

I think it is possible, however SMSs current setup/implementation doesn't allow for it. Not Sonys. It's possible on other games to feed data back, I think the app developer said the way SMS have it setup would require access to shared memory (which won't happen on console) but that doesn't mean SMS can't change the way the data is fetched. It's possible, but it's down to SMS IIRC.

Umer Ahmad
04-08-2015, 15:32
Yes someone mentioned game data can be sent "back through the internet/cloud" which is quite....stupid to me. The data is already on my local console, why should i have to re-route back to SONY/MSFT? Not very realtime then is it?

Who knows, maybe SMS will change it like this or some third solution. But we do know they do not intend to have much new "tech" changes in pcars1.

Umer Ahmad
04-08-2015, 15:34
Moved to existing thread

TrueNOS2
04-08-2015, 18:16
Glad to see we're getting some more discussion on this! I wish SMS would respond. The experience should be the same for console as it is for PC. I paid the same amount for the game on console as the PC version users paid and have less functionality. Stop SELLING add-ons (like a track I've never heard of) and please put some r&d behind getting this functionality done.

TheReaper GT
04-08-2015, 18:19
Glad to see we're getting some more discussion on this! I wish SMS would respond. The experience should be the same for console as it is for PC. I paid the same amount for the game on console as the PC version users paid and have less functionality. Stop SELLING add-ons (like a track I've never heard of) and please put some r&d behind getting this functionality done.

SMS api works over shared memory and that's not possible on consoles. I'm sorry but you're been a little childish... The last post alone made me unsubscribe for this thread.

tgrey
04-08-2015, 18:33
People keep throwing around that buzz word, but it's totally irrelevant. "Shared memory" is only a requirement on pc because there's a secondary app (the transmitter) that collects the data from that shared memory, and in turn sends it out to another device. The game could (should) be sending that data out itself, but isn't.

TrueNOS2
04-08-2015, 18:35
Personal comments are best kept to oneself. These forums are the only outlet for getting the attention of the developers made available to us to request making positive changes to their programs. The view on this "addition" is shared by quite a few persons (over 2000 views). Let's just stick to the forum rules and keep up the debate for getting SOME sort of interface that allows one to view telemetry data on a second screen.

wickedlaw
04-08-2015, 18:40
Let me make myself understood: i will code it for fun :) they just need to be willing to publish the data on a server :)

TrueNOS2
04-08-2015, 18:43
:eagerness:Now, if only SMS would pop in on this thread. And excuse my prior post, there are now over 3000 views on this topic!

madmax2069
04-08-2015, 19:11
People keep throwing around that buzz word, but it's totally irrelevant. "Shared memory" is only a requirement on pc because there's a secondary app (the transmitter) that collects the data from that shared memory, and in turn sounds it out to another device. The game could (should) be sending that data out itself, but isn't.

Indeed, that is what many people dont understand.

wickedlaw
04-08-2015, 19:31
@Umer Ahmad

Actually it's not that stupid. Sony/MS are providing a type of service, which is to serve the games for the consoles. For security reasons, it's quite cumbersome to provide access to pCars game data to another application. An honestly, i don't want to view the telemetry on my PS4. I want to view it on my PC/mac. Storing game data is possible thru Sony and MS, but providing an API so that the data is read from another platform is a big no no for them :)

So, pCars could upload the telemetry on their servers, with a push of a button in the menu, or automatically upon session end. This way, you can access that data from anywhere. Obviously, this comes at a cost: keeping dedicated servers up and alive. But then again, we have AWS, Digitalocean, etc these days :) So it would be a matter of implementing and the costs should not be that high, as it's only dumb storage, no processing on the server side.

PS: I'm a server developer, non-affiliated with pCars :)

Fanatest
04-08-2015, 19:52
It's hilarious that people blindly believe things told to them, by people they don't know, about something they know nothing about... and then get angry at those who do, and who try to help :)

I hope you can provide a proof of concept wickedlaw.
It would teach many of the drama queens and squatters some well needed manners ;)

Subscribed*

TrueNOS2
05-08-2015, 16:16
Here, here...luv it! As I had stated earlier "Nothing is not possible" :encouragement:

Pirategenius
05-08-2015, 16:28
It should be easy to provide support for the vita as a second screen, as it's already used by other titles.
Which SMS would comment on this aspect

wickedlaw
05-08-2015, 17:15
Still, you could look at it this way: what's the percentage of PS4 players that have bought the game and have their PS4 connected to the internets? :) If it's toolow, it's quite possible that it just isn't feasible market wise, which i get.

Fanatest
05-08-2015, 17:24
Still, you could look at it this way: what's the percentage of PS4 players that have bought the game and have their PS4 connected to the internets? :) If it's toolow, it's quite possible that it just isn't feasible market wise, which i get.

The PS4 is the biggest selling platform for PCars (over half a million copy's sold on that platform alone) of which I'd say the majority are online as the console almost depends on it (updates, spotify, DLC, multiplayer)

According to Steam there are currently only somewhere between 600/800 active PC players (with a max of around 1000) at any given time per month.

Xbox currently doesn't register its numbers effectively, but isn't in the most active.

PS4 appears to have the biggest active online community (and users connected).

On XBOX our next preview update should be Win10 (in the coming weeks/months) which will advise users of how many active players are playing any given game at any given time, so that should help balance those figures out.

Remember spotify said they had the biggest influx of new activations when the app released on PS4 (over 1.5 million in 24 hours alone) so that's a pretty significant amount of users connected to the interwebs ;)

That number alone, is more than the entire PCars online community for PC and XBO combined ;)

According to this 9/10 PS4 is the U.S. are online:
http://www.gamesradar.com/910-people-have-their-ps4s-online-other-110-get-program/

And gamespot say (95%)
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2014-95-of-ps4s-connected-to-the-internet-youtube-app-coming-this-year/1100-6420285/

If the developers create an app that allows these features, and charge just a $1 or $2 ... I'm pretty sure it would make make someone a millionaire overnight! :D

Even if SMS do it themselves, that's an addition million $ or so for a change (addition) to the code that can't possibly cost that amount to change/add as the game only cost about 3 million to make.

The income from that app alone (on both platforms) will not only cover the cost, but will have a relatively large ROI based in the demand for it as this is one of the most viewed threads on this forum ;)

tgrey
05-08-2015, 18:18
The PS4 is the biggest selling platform for PCars (over half a million copy's sold on that platform alone) of which I'd say the majority are online as the console almost depends on it (updates, spotify, DLC, multiplayer)
...


I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm. ;)

tgrey
05-08-2015, 18:21
@Umer Ahmad

Actually it's not that stupid. Sony/MS are providing a type of service, which is to serve the games for the consoles. For security reasons, it's quite cumbersome to provide access to pCars game data to another application. An honestly, i don't want to view the telemetry on my PS4. I want to view it on my PC/mac. Storing game data is possible thru Sony and MS, but providing an API so that the data is read from another platform is a big no no for them :)

So, pCars could upload the telemetry on their servers, with a push of a button in the menu, or automatically upon session end. This way, you can access that data from anywhere. Obviously, this comes at a cost: keeping dedicated servers up and alive. But then again, we have AWS, Digitalocean, etc these days :) So it would be a matter of implementing and the costs should not be that high, as it's only dumb storage, no processing on the server side.

PS: I'm a server developer, non-affiliated with pCars :)

Somehow I missed this response earlier.

There is no reason for this data to go through or be stored by MS/Sony/SMS etc. I mean, supposedly they can't even keep time trial leaderboards for all cars due to storage constraints from MS/Sony... so I have a hard time believing they'd be able to store the telemetry data for even one lap per player.

The console should be sending the telemetry data out to your local network... you set a setting in the game of the IP address of your "second screen" device, and the game just sends that raw data out straight to the local device. No storage in the cloud, etc etc. It's *REALLY* simple this way.

wickedlaw
05-08-2015, 18:31
I was referring to pCars having their own dedicated servers, not using MS/Sony services

tgrey
05-08-2015, 18:34
I was referring to pCars having their own dedicated servers, not using MS/Sony services

It doesn't matter, there's no need or reason for the telemetry data to run through or be stored on a server no matter who owns and runs it. It's a ton of data to deal with, and sending it through a server will increase latency to the point that the telemetry data would be absolutely useless in anything except a historical context.

If they just send the data to a local networks, app writers can deal with it however they want.

Fanatest
05-08-2015, 19:33
I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm. ;)

On this occasion it wasn't ;)

PCars sold more copy's on PS4 than any other platform, it's 100% true.
The game sold over a million copies, over 500,000 of those were on PS4 alone.

That's more than PC/XBO combined :)

tgrey
05-08-2015, 19:41
On this occasion it wasn't ;)

PCars sold more copy's on PS4 than any other platform, it's 100% true.
The game sold over a million copies, over 500,000 of those were on PS4 alone.

That's more than PC/XBO combined :)

I know your reply wasn't, I meant the statement you were replying *to* :P

Fanatest
05-08-2015, 20:29
I know your reply wasn't, I meant the statement you were replying *to* :P

As a member of the British Empire, I'll be disappointed in myself if I missed it, but even after reading it again it still doesn't seem to have that gorgeous sarcastic undertone that we love to over emphasise in our delivery (to me at least) lol :D

I'll blame the delivery ;)

wickedlaw
06-08-2015, 06:59
i don't see any need to send out data real time. The data can be uploaded at the end of the session. As for the size of the data. Not sure it's that large actually, as we're talking strictly about numbers, which can compressed and stored compressed on the server. Basically, the processing would be done in the client that accesses the data.

tgrey
06-08-2015, 07:33
i don't see any need to send out data real time. The data can be uploaded at the end of the session. As for the size of the data. Not sure it's that large actually, as we're talking strictly about numbers, which can compressed and stored compressed on the server. Basically, the processing would be done in the client that accesses the data.

Ok... think of it this way:

You're doing a 24 hour race... how much telemetry data is that going to create? You can't store that on the console in RAM waiting to be sent out... that's *FAR* too much data. You can't (shouldn't) write that data to the HD constantly... that will create potential for latency on the system due to potential blocking HD io. Really, the best option is to send it out immediately.

If you want it stored, there's no reason you can't send it to a device and store it there... but asking the ps4 to do that while running the game is probably not a good idea, and sending it to Sony/MS/SMS is a much worse idea.

If the game send data out to the local network, you get to decide what to do with it. You could have an android/ipad app that acts as a HUD, or you could have a laptop that records everything to HD for later analysis. This option makes the data available easily to everyone, and lets them decide what to do with it.

edit: 24 hours is a hyperbole, but the concept stands. recording data for any reasonably long session will not fit in ram, especially given the game is already using most of that.

wickedlaw
06-08-2015, 07:42
you could send out data in the pits :)

Or cache data in memory and write it on the HDD after it reaches a certain size or at a certain interval. There are ways for sure. It's a basic problem that databases need to solve, but without the locking issues that db systems need to take into consideration.

tgrey
06-08-2015, 07:50
It is possible to do it that way, yes... but if most of the RAM is used by the game you don't want to risk filling it up entirely with cached telemetry data. *IF* you happen to run out of RAM and the game needs even just one single bit more... you're swapping large amounts of data to the HD and performance tanks.

A database is useful for storing, recalling, and analyzing this data... sure, but is secondary to the main goal of just making it available. Once the game sends it out, we can do anything we want with it.

edit: As far as sending out with the pits, that's creative thinking... but I still think you're underestimating how much data a few laps worth of telemetry data actually is. It's pretty freaking huge.

Fanatest
06-08-2015, 08:36
It is possible to do it that way, yes... but if most of the RAM is used by the game you don't want to risk filling it up entirely with cached telemetry data. *IF* you happen to run out of RAM and the game needs even just one single bit more... you're swapping large amounts of data to the HD and performance tanks.

A database is useful for storing, recalling, and analyzing this data... sure, but is secondary to the main goal of just making it available. Once the game sends it out, we can do anything we want with it.

edit: As far as sending out with the pits, that's creative thinking... but I still think you're underestimating how much data a few laps worth of telemetry data actually is. It's pretty freaking huge.

If done creativly then it should take up much data at all?

If written directly to text, then:

1 character = 1byte (in notepad)

So 1000 characters = ~1k

So unless the amount of data output is offensively large, it could be stored as text, very easily in cache, or ram.

Even 100 million (100,000,000) characters of data, would only equal ~100,000k which is ~95/98mb.

So if stored solely as text, it should be relatively easy to store and not take up much space at all.

The GUI would then transform that data to graphs etc by reading the data directly from the text file.

With plenty ram and HDD space available, that gives you essentially billions of characters available, with essentially no overhead / cost in storage.

Iamlegion
06-08-2015, 09:33
It doesn't matter, there's no need or reason for the telemetry data to run through or be stored on a server no matter who owns and runs it. It's a ton of data to deal with, and sending it through a server will increase latency to the point that the telemetry data would be absolutely useless in anything except a historical context.

If they just send the data to a local networks, app writers can deal with it however they want.

I can see how Sony wouldn't want this as it may lead to circumventing the Vita and ultimately, a decline in sales.

tgrey
06-08-2015, 14:47
If done creativly then it should take up much data at all?

If written directly to text, then:

1 character = 1byte (in notepad)

So 1000 characters = ~1k

So unless the amount of data output is offensively large, it could be stored as text, very easily in cache, or ram.

Even 100 million (100,000,000) characters of data, would only equal ~100,000k which is ~95/98mb.

So if stored solely as text, it should be relatively easy to store and not take up much space at all.

The GUI would then transform that data to graphs etc by reading the data directly from the text file.

With plenty ram and HDD space available, that gives you essentially billions of characters available, with essentially no overhead / cost in storage.

OK, you're starting to do the math... but now think of this... what is a reasonable refresh rate for telemetry data, once a second? Definitely not... 10 times a second? Nope. 100 times a second... now you're in the ballpark, but still probably not there. How many different variables are you wanting to look at? Each tire temp, tire pressure, brake temp, accelerator pressure, brake pressure, steering input, vectors of travel, let's not forget data about the suspension too... amount of compression at each corner. any damage incurred to the vehicle... blah blah blah blah blah.

there's a *TON* of data to record, and assuming 100 hz refresh rate... well, it gets very large very quickly. Now multiply that by the amount of text data you think that will be. It's really a very significant amount of data.


I can see how Sony wouldn't want this as it may lead to circumventing the Vita and ultimately, a decline in sales.

I highly doubt this is even part of the decision making process... vita sales are already abysmally low, I don't think this will be cutting into their sales by any observable amount.

Fanatest
06-08-2015, 16:43
OK, you're starting to do the math... but now think of this... what is a reasonable refresh rate for telemetry data, once a second? Definitely not... 10 times a second? Nope. 100 times a second... now you're in the ballpark, but still probably not there. How many different variables are you wanting to look at? Each tire temp, tire pressure, brake temp, accelerator pressure, brake pressure, steering input, vectors of travel, let's not forget data about the suspension too... amount of compression at each corner. any damage incurred to the vehicle... blah blah blah blah blah.

there's a *TON* of data to record, and assuming 100 hz refresh rate... well, it gets very large very quickly. Now multiply that by the amount of text data you think that will be. It's really a very significant amount of data.



I highly doubt this is even part of the decision making process... vita sales are already abysmally low, I don't think this will be cutting into their sales by any observable amount.

Sure, It's a significant amount of data, but it's just logging data already created and displayed by the game (on screen). It could be logged to a dump file effectively and read by a separate app.

For example...
If a hundred million characters of text (100,000,000) only costs 98mb (based on MS characteristics) and let's say we use around 40,000 characters per 10 pages of text (given standard single spacing) ...

Therefore you could create a text file that contains ~100,000 PAGES of data, containing over 400,000,000 (4 hundred million "nearly half a billion" characters) at a cost of only ~380/400mb (based on standard MS text reporting for MS notepad)

If 4 hundred million characters of data.
100,000 pages of text (per race)
at a cost of only ~400mb (without compression) isn't enough... Well... Then... 'am ootta here :D

Iamlegion
06-08-2015, 21:01
I highly doubt this is even part of the decision making process... vita sales are already abysmally low, I don't think this will be cutting into their sales by any observable amount.

You may be right, but low sales are better than no sales in economics

Psebcool
06-08-2015, 23:00
MGSV will have a companion app for smartphone and tablets => http://www.metalgearinformer.com/?p=21103

So, it's definitively possible.

At least that developers reserve this feature for PC2.

tgrey
07-08-2015, 00:22
Sure, It's a significant amount of data, but it's just logging data already created and displayed by the game (on screen). It could be logged to a dump file effectively and read by a separate app.

For example...
If a hundred million characters of text (100,000,000) only costs 98mb (based on MS characteristics) and let's say we use around 40,000 characters per 10 pages of text (given standard single spacing) ...

Therefore you could create a text file that contains ~100,000 PAGES of data, containing over 400,000,000 (4 hundred million "nearly half a billion" characters) at a cost of only ~380/400mb (based on standard MS text reporting for MS notepad)

If 4 hundred million characters of data.
100,000 pages of text (per race)
at a cost of only ~400mb (without compression) isn't enough... Well... Then... 'am ootta here :D

The less that writes to the HD while I'm racing the better... but that said, it probably could be done. Not the best idea, but it could work.

However, the entire point of this thread is to get second screen functionality... which your suggestion would not help with. On the other hand, my suggestion would make yours possible ;)

Bluedice
07-08-2015, 00:40
Sure, It's a significant amount of data, but it's just logging data already created and displayed by the game (on screen). It could be logged to a dump file effectively and read by a separate app.

For example...
If a hundred million characters of text (100,000,000) only costs 98mb (based on MS characteristics) and let's say we use around 40,000 characters per 10 pages of text (given standard single spacing) ...

Therefore you could create a text file that contains ~100,000 PAGES of data, containing over 400,000,000 (4 hundred million "nearly half a billion" characters) at a cost of only ~380/400mb (based on standard MS text reporting for MS notepad)

If 4 hundred million characters of data.
100,000 pages of text (per race)
at a cost of only ~400mb (without compression) isn't enough... Well... Then... 'am ootta here :D

Have you ever tried opening a ~400mb text file?

If you try you will understand.

tgrey
07-08-2015, 00:51
Have you ever tried opening a ~400mb text file?

If you try you will understand.

I would assume if there were a text file, you wouldn't "open it"... you'd probably import it into a spreadsheet, database, or some other tool. Making heads or tails out of raw text would be nearly impossible.

Bluedice
07-08-2015, 01:21
I would assume if there were a text file, you wouldn't "open it"... you'd probably import it into a spreadsheet, database, or some other tool. Making heads or tails out of raw text would be nearly impossible.

Which is pretty much the same as opening it, any operation on a text (ASCII) file of that size is slow as hell and pretty memory intensive and inefficient. That problem aside, parsing it and making head or tails of the raw text would actually be pretty easy as long you know how the text is structured.

But forget it, something like that for something of this nature wouldn't even be a option worth considering.

Fanatest
07-08-2015, 10:07
Have you ever tried opening a ~400mb text file?

If you try you will understand.

Our modelling servers generate petabytes of raw data, after its completed a cycle (which can run for weeks and in some cases months) that data must then be read directly (by the team running the model) which is done with ease, by using bespoke software, designed specifically for these scenarios.

For example, 400mb of data can be opened/read/interpreted to the user in a legible format in less than a fraction of a second (and is sneezed out of the modelling server in milliseconds)

I was using the measurements above so "everyone" would/could understand.
However, it would not / would never be implemented in such a crude fashion (such as trying to open a 400mb file in notepad etc) that example was used to give everyone an easily identifiable / recognisable reference point (for file size vs characters) and was not / never was provided as an actual viable suggestion :D

The point of this discussion was to clear up that it "couldn't be done"... Because "it can"
While the above mentioned option is clearly a terrible one, the point now at least remains accurate and factual, and not full of hyperbole.

Second Screen is needed on the consoles.
There are ways to achieve it within the confinements of the eco system.
It's clearly possible on both consoles (no matter how crude the implementation)

For Reference:
I am a Microsoft Certified IT / Technology Specialist


Which is pretty much the same as opening it, any operation on a text (ASCII) file of that size is slow as hell and pretty memory intensive and inefficient. That problem aside, parsing it and making head or tails of the raw text would actually be pretty easy as long you know how the text is structured.

But forget it, something like that for something of this nature wouldn't even be a option worth considering.

Ohh dear...
It's not, and it wasn't a suggestion?
It was a yard stick to correct the amount of made up info being posted. I was correcting a factual error posted by others.



The less that writes to the HD while I'm racing the better... but that said, it probably could be done. Not the best idea, but it could work.

However, the entire point of this thread is to get second screen functionality... which your suggestion would not help with. On the other hand, my suggestion would make yours possible ;)

It wasn't a suggestion, I was correcting your previous inaccurate statement ;)

TrueNOS2
07-08-2015, 15:54
Perhaps someone could PM Ian Bell to get further comments on this subject. I've attempted but it seems my PM's to him are not going through. I would really like to see some activity on this.

tgrey
07-08-2015, 16:28
Perhaps someone could PM Ian Bell to get further comments on this subject. I've attempted but it seems my PM's to him are not going through. I would really like to see some activity on this.

Seems they've been busy with patch 3. ;)

Also it sounds like as they get more bugs fixed, they'll be focusing more on new features... so maybe there's still some hope.

Bluedice
07-08-2015, 21:59
Our modelling servers generate petabytes of raw data, after its completed a cycle (which can run for weeks and in some cases months) that data must then be read directly (by the team running the model) which is done with ease, by using bespoke software, designed specifically for these scenarios.

For example, 400mb of data can be opened/read/interpreted to the user in a legible format in less than a fraction of a second (and is sneezed out of the modelling server in milliseconds)

All nice and dandy but are those servers PS4 with resources already allocated to something else?

I guess not, comparing workstations/servers designed for a specific propose in mind with a gaming console with limited RAM, disk I/O and GPU is like comparing bananas to oranges. But anyways, I get your point.


I was using the measurements above so "everyone" would/could understand.
However, it would not / would never be implemented in such a crude fashion (such as trying to open a 400mb file in notepad etc) that example was used to give everyone an easily identifiable / recognisable reference point (for file size vs characters) and was not / never was provided as an actual viable suggestion :D

I see, but the thing is that Sony already has all of the side app API in place for what I know. Several games already use it and they are most likely based on com services that relay info directly trough a "pipe", so there is no need to reinvent the wheel there.


The point of this discussion was to clear up that it "couldn't be done"... Because "it can"
While the above mentioned option is clearly a terrible one, the point now at least remains accurate and factual, and not full of hyperbole.

You're right. It not only can be done, it has been done already. Monopoly, Madden 15, Battlefield 4, Garden Warfare, Warframe, Wolfenstein, Little Big Planet, Playroom, Dead Nation, Assassins Creed 4, Destiny, etc all have second screen support to some degree. Some use custom apps with the communication being done via Internet with their own servers and others use the PlayStation App second screen ability which is independent of a Internet connection.

So the "[Not Possible]" in thread title is pretty much a lie.


Second Screen is needed on the consoles.
There are ways to achieve it within the confinements of the eco system.
It's clearly possible on both consoles (no matter how crude the implementation)

You bet it is needed! I couldn't agree more, but SMS seems to be dismissive of this.


For Reference:
I am a Microsoft Certified IT / Technology Specialist

No need for credentials, I get your points and I don't disagree with you. I was just pointing that your example wasn't a real solution or path to be pursued. Specially since what is needed to accomplish that was already made available by Sony.

For reference:
I'm a VFX Supervisor and Pipeline TD for feature films with 16 years of experience, so to some extent I'm pretty familiar with the techno jazz.

Now let's just hope that between PCars 1 patches, the RedBull game and PCars 2, SMS finds the time and resources to make PCars 1 be all that it can be on the consoles.

TrueNOS2
08-08-2015, 23:10
Time and resources indeed! I bet there would be more than "three" of us willing to pay a small fee for the app as well. Heck I paid over $5.00 for a few Audi models and a track I've never heard of! I'm sure that SMS could more than recoup the expense for development.

Bluedice
09-08-2015, 03:35
I would gladly pay 20 bucks or more if it was an app with support for future installments of the game.

Gravit8
10-08-2015, 21:25
Yeah. It should say (not interested) or (we can't) (SMS can't)
Because it's totally been established it's possible and has been done on all the titles previously mentioned.

Nobody likes to be lied to SMS. This is 12 pages of people reminding you of that. Stuff like this makes you guys seem isolated from reality. Pointless forum if honesty isn't maintained. Seems a little thing to create animosity over?
Just say your not interested or willing to do it, but don't do a fancy dance around the truth. Nor post blatant misrepresentations on the thread title.
It's only (not possible) at the moment for your developers to wrap your head around the concept & techniques others have pulled off and emulate it.

jason
10-08-2015, 21:55
I would pay for this option. :(

tgrey
10-08-2015, 22:00
Yeah. It should say (not interested) or (we can't) (SMS can't)
Because it's totally been established it's possible and has been done on all the titles previously mentioned.

Nobody likes to be lied to SMS. This is 12 pages of people reminding you of that. Stuff like this makes you guys seem isolated from reality. Pointless forum if honesty isn't maintained. Seems a little thing to create animosity over?
Just say your not interested or willing to do it, but don't do a fancy dance around the truth. Nor post blatant misrepresentations on the thread title.
It's only (not possible) at the moment for your developers to wrap your head around the concept & techniques others have pulled off and emulate it.

IIRC earlier in the thread it was mentioned that the title was misleading, and SMS did not officially make that as a statement.

TrueNOS2
11-08-2015, 02:07
We need some SMS input here.

Iamlegion
11-08-2015, 06:56
I would pay for this option. :(

I'd give my left nut for this.

tgrey
11-08-2015, 14:07
I'd give my left nut for this.

I'm in too. Bounty is up to two nuts and $20, who wants to collect? ;)

Fight-Test
11-08-2015, 15:56
post 27

tgrey
11-08-2015, 16:29
post 27

link for the lazy (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?24031-Not-Possible-Second-Screen-amp-Apps-on-PS4&p=1055616&viewfull=1#post1055616)

wickedlaw
11-08-2015, 19:59
It seems to me that this is getting a bit out of hand.

1. I never was under the impression that the game offers 2nd screen support for consoles by default, nor that there is a web interface for viewing stats
2. I'm sure it is possible, as it's described in my/others posts
3. As a company, even in gaming, market reality decides and we, as devs or gamers, need to accept it :)
4. It's their view that they(sms) are trying to implement in this game. If we don't like it, we can move on to a proj that implements our wishes. But i highly doubt you will find the perfect one:)

So patience and read before you buy.

TrueNOS2
11-08-2015, 22:24
It seems to me that this is getting a bit out of hand.

1. I never was under the impression that the game offers 2nd screen support for consoles by default, nor that there is a web interface for viewing stats
2. I'm sure it is possible, as it's described in my/others posts
3. As a company, even in gaming, market reality decides and we, as devs or gamers, need to accept it :)
4. It's their view that they(sms) are trying to implement in this game. If we don't like it, we can move on to a proj that implements our wishes. But i highly doubt you will find the perfect one:)

So patience and read before you buy.

Oh boy, now "Suede steering wheel cover?" is on top of us! Anyway, I did read before I bought http://www.pocketplayground.net/pcars-dash.html and there was a glimmer of hope for this to come about right off of the Project Cars website. I am in no way trying to offend anyone but to me I don't think this is getting out of hand. I would like to think that the "glass is half full" and we just need to give a little nudge to get some form of this type of application implemented. So, please let's keep up the debate and requests coming.

TrueNOS2
11-08-2015, 22:34
BTW we are 21st on the most viewed list under PS4 - Technical Help & Support :encouragement:

Gravit8
12-08-2015, 02:44
I developed the pCars Dash companion app for Project Cars so i can comment on this. I have already received many queries about this, but while its not currently possible to use the companion apps on consoles due to the api method that was used, there is no reason (that I'm aware of) as to why this couldn't be changed in the future. I have submitted a feature request regarding this (as have a few others) as well as suggestions as to how this could be achieved so hopefully (fingers crossed) in the future SMS will be able to allocate some resources to this so that console players can enjoy the benefits of companion apps with Project Cars as the PC players do. Cheers

Just for clarity and to contrast whatever %#*^ was was contained in post #27.

Surely sounds like the guy SMS pay to develop companion apps for PC at least he believes he could potentially add them on PS4 if someone asks him too.
(Not impossible)

Gravit8
12-08-2015, 02:50
IIRC earlier in the thread it was mentioned that the title was misleading, and SMS did not officially make that as a statement.

Umm actually it says in the thread, which I will highlight next under this. "That SMS tag these threads to be easily answered".

Gravit8
12-08-2015, 02:52
Apology accepted.
We are well aware of the issues that the consoles have however WMD is working very hard in getting these resolved to offer you a better experience.

We tag threads with [Nope], or [Not available] to give an instant answer to readers to save them having to trawl through threads for the answer.

Pete

So we know who tags the threads with misleading titles.

cjorgens79
12-08-2015, 11:45
Just for clarity and to contrast whatever %#*^ was was contained in post #27.

Surely sounds like the guy SMS pay to develop companion apps for PC at least he believes he could potentially add them on PS4 if someone asks him too.
(Not impossible)

Let me be very clear about this, SMS did NOT pay me to make companion apps. Myself (and as far as i am aware) all the other 3rd party's who developed companion apps did so on their own, at their own cost. The "pCars Dash" app for me is a hobby project, I created it initially to help me with setting testing car setups in game (as i was part of the community who were involved since 2011) as there was certain information i wanted which the game didn't tell me, like which wheels were locking up during brake lockups and i kept building on it from there. This hobby project happens to have paid off for me by making me some additional income through iOS/Android app sales, but I have never been paid by SMS for the development of my app, nor was I ever asked in anyway to develop the app in the first place. SMS made the api available to all so the community could build these sorts of apps themselves if they wanted to, just like most of the other racing titles do.

I personally believe that there would most likely be a way to build an api that could be used on the consoles (udp telemetry server or udp telemetry transmitter in the game itself), however I am in the same boat as everyone else in that I can only wait to see if SMS will do this or not. I don't have any special or closer contact with SMS than any of you do, I'm just another voice on this forum.

Please also remember that SMS don't make any money out of these 3rd party companion app sales, so i doubt that a console api is a very high priority for them. That might change if they eventually develop or commission their own official app.

Bluedice
12-08-2015, 12:00
Let's just hope something happens on that front. I would love to be able to pCars Dash on the PS4.

By the way congrats on your work, it looks fantastic!

Gravit8
12-08-2015, 20:32
Please also remember that SMS don't make any money out of these 3rd party companion app sales, so i doubt that a console api is a very high priority for them. That might change if they eventually develop or commission their own official app.

Thanks for clearing it up


When it comes to making money on these apps? Sure. Charge for them via DLC? If you must.
But I do recognize that they make a 50% premium on console users! at half the development cost. So be careful asking consolers to spend more. We are already subsidizing the PC development as well. For an inferior port that we get?
Maybe SMS should kick us down a few nuggets for tolerating this? Or help kill the attitude of consolers and the margins that go with porting software for us.

jason
12-08-2015, 21:22
Let me be very clear about this, SMS did NOT pay me to make companion apps. Myself (and as far as i am aware) all the other 3rd party's who developed companion apps did so on their own, at their own cost. The "pCars Dash" app for me is a hobby project, I created it initially to help me with setting testing car setups in game (as i was part of the community who were involved since 2011) as there was certain information i wanted which the game didn't tell me, like which wheels were locking up during brake lockups and i kept building on it from there. This hobby project happens to have paid off for me by making me some additional income through iOS/Android app sales, but I have never been paid by SMS for the development of my app, nor was I ever asked in anyway to develop the app in the first place. SMS made the api available to all so the community could build these sorts of apps themselves if they wanted to, just like most of the other racing titles do.

I personally believe that there would most likely be a way to build an api that could be used on the consoles (udp telemetry server or udp telemetry transmitter in the game itself), however I am in the same boat as everyone else in that I can only wait to see if SMS will do this or not. I don't have any special or closer contact with SMS than any of you do, I'm just another voice on this forum.

Please also remember that SMS don't make any money out of these 3rd party companion app sales, so i doubt that a console api is a very high priority for them. That might change if they eventually develop or commission their own official app.

Its a pretty hot topic , it would be nice for someone from SMS to contact you and engage in making this happen. Just because they are not making money from it shouldn't be a big deal , I wouldn't think they making a lot from the shirt and hat sales either :)

IronMask75
13-08-2015, 08:25
It seems to me that this is getting a bit out of hand.

1. I never was under the impression that the game offers 2nd screen support for consoles by default, nor that there is a web interface for viewing stats

Just wanted to point something out here: the games don't offer 2nd screen support for the consoles... The console (PS4 at least) offers second screen support for games by default. It's a function of the PlayStation 4 operating system that second screen support is available, by default, from the get go, to any developer who wishes to use it.

It's why you can have a live interactive map where you can set way points and accept missions when you play Assassin's Creed: Black Flag. It's why you can have a live interactive map where you can set objectives when you play Battlefield 4. It's why you can transfer gear between your characters and vault instantly in Destiny. Again, the Second Screen API is in the operating system. It's up to the individual developer to utilise it.

Now that's out of the way, the real question is whether the PS4 Second Screen API has a low enough latency for something like live timing and telemetry data. It most certainly would be useful enough to change car settings on the fly. The other question is whether SMS are willing to make an official second screen app to do, well, anything, because I'm almost positive that if you aren't a game developer with a game on the platform, Sony aren't going to grant you access to the Second Screen API.

The guys talking about trying to get one of the PC made apps modified to work on the PS4 will almost certainly have to get access to the game outside of the Second Screen API, but this is a separate debate altogether. Is it even possible for SMS to allow it? Will Sony allow it, as it could be a potential back door to the operating system, and we know how much Sony are scared of hackers. All of it is speculation at this point, until someone from an official channel investigates, and then reports it to us.

tgrey
13-08-2015, 08:40
Just wanted to point something out here: the games don't offer 2nd screen support for the consoles... The console (PS4 at least) offers second screen support for games by default. It's a function of the PlayStation 4 operating system that second screen support is available, by default, from the get go, to any developer who wishes to use it.

It's why you can have a live interactive map where you can set way points and accept missions when you play Assassin's Creed: Black Flag. It's why you can have a live interactive map where you can set objectives when you play Battlefield 4. It's why you can transfer gear between your characters and vault instantly in Destiny. Again, the Second Screen API is in the operating system. It's up to the individual developer to utilise it.

Now that's out of the way, the real question is whether the PS4 Second Screen API has a low enough latency for something like live timing and telemetry data. It most certainly would be useful enough to change car settings on the fly. The other question is whether SMS are willing to make an official second screen app to do, well, anything, because I'm almost positive that if you aren't a game developer with a game on the platform, Sony aren't going to grant you access to the Second Screen API.

The guys talking about trying to get one of the PC made apps modified to work on the PS4 will almost certainly have to get access to the game outside of the Second Screen API, but this is a separate debate altogether. Is it even possible for SMS to allow it? Will Sony allow it, as it could be a potential back door to the operating system, and we know how much Sony are scared of hackers. All of it is speculation at this point, until someone from an official channel investigates, and then reports it to us.

You're not wrong... but I think you missed a point that we've been discussing in this thread. If the second screen functionality of the PS4 does not have low enough latency (which it's very possible it wouldn't for telemetry data), there are other methods that can be used, some of which might actually be *easier* to implement. Such as the suggestion to blast out the data via UDP, which is a connectionless protocol used frequently for video games and streaming. If you turn on the setting, it sends out raw data over udp... then app writers on any platform can write the apps that receive the data.

That's essentially how the PC monitoring apps work, the only difference being that the game doesn't send out the data itself, which is why they rely on "shared memory". A third-party app on the PC accesses the shared memory from the game, and sends that data out via UDP to whatever device/app is set up to receive it.

TrueNOS2
13-08-2015, 18:00
SMS?

RyoHazukiITA
18-08-2015, 23:02
Maybe someone has info about it....
Since for the first time we have button boxes for console, maybe PjC will also bring this option to us console gamers.

Mr.Smoke
18-08-2015, 23:12
Highly unlikely, but would be fantastic if it happened.

jason
18-08-2015, 23:23
A lot of people have shown interest but no news or a mention of it happening :( would be great !

tgrey
19-08-2015, 02:42
There's another *HUGE* thread about this... http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?24031-Not-Possible-Second-Screen-amp-Apps-on-PS4

It's currently marked "NOT POSSIBLE", however a few people in the thread have pointed out that it's absolutely possible, just not with the current "implementation". On PC a secondary app accesses the game's shared memory to read the data, and then sends it out to the network.

For this to be possible, SMS would have to build the functionality directly into the game to send that data straight to the network.

There hasn't been much of a reply from SMS about this possibility tho, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

Bealdor
19-08-2015, 06:40
Threads merged.

tgrey
19-08-2015, 06:44
Threads merged.

It would probably be better if you didn't merge them, since this thread is incorrectly marked "NOT POSSIBLE"... merging the new thread with this one just keeps it hidden in an old thread that SMS has already dismissed and seems to want to ignore until it goes away.

edit: Just saw you changed the title too... I take that back! ;)

TrueNOS2
19-08-2015, 14:40
I've been focused on the 3.0 patch as of recent, and I'm quite certain that SMS is too, but I would still like to see this happen. I don't think that the [Unlikely] prefix to the thread title is appropriate either. As previously stated it is not impossible to bring this type of application to the game. Are the Moderators in touch with the Developers on a daily/weekly basis? If so, then they should quote the heads of Slightly Mad Studios position on this and give some insight as to the viability of such.

TrueNOS2
19-08-2015, 14:51
Threads merged.

I'd like to request that this be "Sticky" here and in "PS4-Technical Help & Support". I've been on this since the first week of release at which time I had sent an email to SMS and was told to address this in the forums. If SMS has absolutely no intentions of looking into this then tell us and be done, strike the thread.

...and please note the following statistics: Replies: 141
Views: 5,203

It is by no means an "orphan" subject/thread.

Gravit8
19-08-2015, 18:41
Thanks for updating the thread. (Unlikely)
"Honestly" stoked on that. The update of title. Not its content.
The "work around" for telemetry review in PCars is unacceptable and I would not at all except it in PCars two. Is a glaring omission from this game that "(should)" be "Fixed".
Tuning to play shouldn't require work arounds that are a serious grind.

WizardOfOz
19-08-2015, 19:11
I fully understand where SMS are coming from ,the work load to add this feature into a console would be high and the CPU usage could cause the game to drop FPS

While i would love the feature (and i would pay a DLC price to get it) , i would also like the option to turn the system off in game

But , Sony have already thought this need with the use of a PS Vita
https://support.us.playstation.com/articles/en_US/KC_Article/PS4-Remote-Play-and-Second-Screen

Also the option to have the info in the HUD would work for me

tgrey
19-08-2015, 19:20
I fully understand where SMS are coming from ,the work load to add this feature into a console would be high and the CPU usage could cause the game to drop FPS

While i would love the feature (and i would pay a DLC price to get it) , i would also like the option to turn the system off in game

But , Sony have already thought this need with the use of a PS Vita
https://support.us.playstation.com/articles/en_US/KC_Article/PS4-Remote-Play-and-Second-Screen

Also the option to have the info in the HUD would work for me

You may have missed it earlier in the megathread, but there's been doubt cast as to whether or not the second screen API would be fast enough to accomplish this. That's why there were recommendations to send it out raw in UDP packets, which is very low overhead, and very high speed.

And yes, of course this feature should be able to be turned off... If someone isn't using it, it would make no sense to blast a ton of data out to the network.

Most of the data is already available in the hud, switch to the telemetry view. Part of the problem tho, there's no real way to view/comprehend this data *WHILE* driving. Aside from having second screens, if the data were sent out to the network, it could be captured and analyzed after the fact.

Gravit8
19-08-2015, 20:04
You may have missed it earlier in the megathread, but there's been doubt cast as to whether or not the second screen API would be fast enough to accomplish this. That's why there were recommendations to send it out raw in UDP packets, which is very low overhead, and very high speed.

And yes, of course this feature should be able to be turned off... If someone isn't using it, it would make no sense to blast a ton of data out to the network.

Most of the data is already available in the hud, switch to the telemetry view. Part of the problem tho, there's no real way to view/comprehend this data *WHILE* driving. Aside from having second screens, if the data were sent out to the network, it could be captured and analyzed after the fact.

If telemetry was available in replay. This point is moot. Don't need second screens that bad. I'll put in laps, then review on replay. I don't concentrate well on laps while trying to read data at same time.

tgrey
19-08-2015, 20:15
If telemetry was available in replay. This point is moot. Don't need second screens that bad. I'll put in laps, then review on replay. I don't concentrate well on laps while trying to read data at same time.

I disagree, being able to crunch/analyze the numbers is very different than just being able to watch them real time (edit: even in replay). But that's to the point of picking nits...

RyoHazukiITA
19-08-2015, 22:04
If telemetry was available in replay. This point is moot. Don't need second screens that bad. I'll put in laps, then review on replay. I don't concentrate well on laps while trying to read data at same time.

If anything can be done for a second screen app, beige able to review telemetry during replays will be sweet!

Bluedice
21-08-2015, 02:32
I fully understand where SMS are coming from ,the work load to add this feature into a console would be high and the CPU usage could cause the game to drop FPS

While i would love the feature (and i would pay a DLC price to get it) , i would also like the option to turn the system off in game

But , Sony have already thought this need with the use of a PS Vita
https://support.us.playstation.com/articles/en_US/KC_Article/PS4-Remote-Play-and-Second-Screen

Also the option to have the info in the HUD would work for me

The only problem here is SMS lack of resources and interest in doing it. I really doubt there would be any significant impact on the console CPU/GPU or memory since this entire dataset is already being processed and used. So it would be merely a matter of piping that trough some protocol to a port where a client app is listening to, something that is far from being memory/processing intensive.

jason
21-08-2015, 03:17
Sticky please

TrueNOS2
22-08-2015, 15:03
Yes "Sticky" please.

Tim Mann
22-08-2015, 18:51
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

RyoHazukiITA
22-08-2015, 19:04
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

Will be sweet man! And you'll be a hero to us console players :D

Sir. Ketchup the 3rd
22-08-2015, 21:29
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

That would be much appreciated.

jerry555
22-08-2015, 22:19
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

Your sixth post in 4 years, and what a post.
Yes please.
Thank you very much..

jason
22-08-2015, 22:58
Yes please you have my support , would pay day one for this .

Mr.Smoke
22-08-2015, 23:07
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

Not only would i extensively use a companion telemetry app, id be willing to pay a few bucks for it if necessary.

Please make this happen!! You have my interest & support.

rocafella1978
22-08-2015, 23:14
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

absolutely great and agree! glad to contribute if necessary!!! thank you!!!

arthurino
22-08-2015, 23:15
Count me in as a supporter!

Titzon Toast
23-08-2015, 00:35
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

Out of that helicopter and get to work on this at once please!
Thank you.

tgrey
23-08-2015, 01:45
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

This is EXTREMELY exciting to hear.

I know beggars can't be choosers, but I'd like to make a request before you get too far along in the development of this... is it possible to match the data output format that the PC sender app uses, which (I believe) would mean 100% compatibility with all of the PC/Android/iOS apps right off line?

Hotty
23-08-2015, 05:15
Please, make it possible, it would be great, thank you for your work:welcoming::rolleyes::beguiled:

ElectricBlues85
23-08-2015, 06:06
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

I've not been one to actively request this idea since we've been told it's not possible / unlikely. If you're saying it's doable, yes please!

RyoHazukiITA
23-08-2015, 07:05
Not only would i extensively use a companion telemetry app, id be willing to pay a few bucks for it if necessary.

Please make this happen!! You have my interest & support.

Totally agree here. 100%

Bluedice
23-08-2015, 08:05
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

That would be beyond awesome!

The only downside is that my button box will end up getting even more complex and expensive to make than what it already is :)

Bring it!!!

wyldanimal
23-08-2015, 08:37
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

Yes, Please do...
Then all I need to know is how to Access the Feed on that port.
time to research that companion App API

madmax2069
23-08-2015, 08:46
Yes, Please do...
Then all I need to know is how to Access the Feed on that port.
time to research that companion App API

Multiple ways to connect the app to the system, either the app auto scans for the system that's running the game and shows a list (usually lists by network host name, or the PS4s name if you set one) if you have multiple systems hooked to the network, or manually enter the systems IP, or ad-hock connect to the system running the game (that is if you're not already using the systems wifi to connect to the internet). Or even by a USB connection.

jimmyb_84
23-08-2015, 08:55
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

Do it please!!!

feel free to add my strategy guide/calculator too ;)

Tim Mann
23-08-2015, 10:00
Okay, who ever the app writers our, you will need to use the XDK (or the iOS version which you can get from the usual places). I haven't researched the app side, but basically it connects to the console via normal network stuff. I get a connect request and an IP address. I can then stuff data to a port on that address.

It's raining today.

jimmyb_84
23-08-2015, 10:40
Okay, who ever the app writers our, you will need to use the XDK (or the iOS version which you can get from the usual places). I haven't researched the app side, but basically it connects to the console via normal network stuff. I get a connect request and an IP address. I can then stuff data to a port on that address.

It's raining today.

No idea what any of that means but sounds promising

Bealdor
23-08-2015, 10:42
It's raining today.

Yeah, the forecast says it'll be raining "likes" for you Tim. :cool:

jerry555
23-08-2015, 11:47
@cjorgens79 Can you give us some info from the link. Thankyou.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?24031-Unlikely-Second-Screen-amp-Apps-on-PS4&p=1094407&viewfull=1#post1094407

SkyyJuice
23-08-2015, 12:27
What !!! of course there will be interest Timmy, bring it on. You guys have gotta remember that PS4 gamers will want all things possible that PC gamers have and have access to. If it's remotely possible on the PlayStation 4, lets 'ave it. :-)

And BTW, since Project Morpheus is rumored to be at the finish line, just wondering how you guys are getting on, with it developing for it. Are you guys making any headway, "Make it work yh, Make it solid".

jason
23-08-2015, 12:44
Look like we are a go :)

Tim Mann
23-08-2015, 14:03
Hmm, now the bad news. The actual 'companion api lib', which is the one you need to link to, to set up comms between the device and console is covered by the usual NDA rules. This means you have to be a registered Sony developer to have access and use it. Which rules out that approach for 3rd party developers. However there may be another way, I will need to talk to Sony first though.

cjorgens79
23-08-2015, 14:22
Hmm, now the bad news. The actual 'companion api lib', which is the one you need to link to, to set up comms between the device and console is covered by the usual NDA rules. This means you have to be a registered Sony developer to have access and use it. Which rules out that approach for 3rd party developers. However there may be another way, I will need to talk to Sony first though.

Hi Tim, is there any reason that you cant just send the api data out over UDP (in json format for example) either to a specific IP address or a multicast (broadcast) address? Is there something on the consoles that prevents that? That would obviously mean both XB1 and PS4 could use companion apps. I'm not entirely sure if I will even be able to use the PS4 XDK due to the fact pCars Dash is written using a cross platform compiler. If the UDP route is possible, i already have win32 c code to translate the shared memory into a compact json structure that keeps the packet size below the standard ethernet MTU (to avoid issues with fragmentation on older intermediate/wifi hardware).

Tim Mann
23-08-2015, 14:26
Hi Tim, is there any reason that you cant just send the api data out over UDP (in json format for example) either to a specific IP address or a multicast (broadcast) address? Is there something on the consoles that prevents that? That would obviously mean both XB1 and PS4 could use companion apps. I'm not entirely sure if I will even be able to use the PS4 XDK due to the fact pCars Dash is written using a cross platform compiler. If the UDP route is possible, i already have win32 c code to translate the shared memory into a compact json structure that keeps the packet size below the standard ethernet MTU (to avoid issues with fragmentation on older intermediate/wifi hardware).

That's what I'm looking at. You would send a magic packet via UDP to the console and then it would start sending UDP to that IP address. There's no restriction on doing that code wise, there may be restrictions on doing that TRC wise though, that's what I need to check.

RyoHazukiITA
23-08-2015, 15:51
Hmm, now the bad news. The actual 'companion api lib', which is the one you need to link to, to set up comms between the device and console is covered by the usual NDA rules. This means you have to be a registered Sony developer to have access and use it. Which rules out that approach for 3rd party developers. However there may be another way, I will need to talk to Sony first though.


That's what I'm looking at. You would send a magic packet via UDP to the console and then it would start sending UDP to that IP address. There's no restriction on doing that code wise, there may be restrictions on doing that TRC wise though, that's what I need to check.

That makes me wonder how Ubisoft (for example) did with both AC: Black Flag and AC: Unity. Then have a companion-app GPS-like which might do (not sure thought) a similar work as we need in PjC...
Anyway this things goes all the effort you're showing will be so much appreciated ^^

Tim Mann
23-08-2015, 16:39
Hi Tim, is there any reason that you cant just send the api data out over UDP (in json format for example) either to a specific IP address or a multicast (broadcast) address? Is there something on the consoles that prevents that? That would obviously mean both XB1 and PS4 could use companion apps. I'm not entirely sure if I will even be able to use the PS4 XDK due to the fact pCars Dash is written using a cross platform compiler. If the UDP route is possible, i already have win32 c code to translate the shared memory into a compact json structure that keeps the packet size below the standard ethernet MTU (to avoid issues with fragmentation on older intermediate/wifi hardware).

Okay, I've sent an enquiry to 1st party regarding it's validity, so will await their reply. In the meantime I've coded it up so if you send "CONNECT" null-terminated string to port 5600 it will start replying to the address/port you sent from with the default 7316 byte shared memory buffer. I haven't bothered filling in the telemetry data yet, but things like game state and version number are all valid. Update rate is 200ms, will need to be tested fully for performance and network flooding.

JohnSchoonsBeard
23-08-2015, 18:23
Sounds very promising. We just hope Sony pull their finger out. Thanks.

Cholton82
23-08-2015, 18:23
+1 for this idea , fantastic news if this comes about ! I'm definitely jumping on the hype train !!!

sirsilver1968
23-08-2015, 18:27
I would happily support any future app, my vita is gathering dust atm :)

Fil140
23-08-2015, 18:59
Yes please, I think there's enough of us that would be willing to pay good money for this.

PureMalt77
23-08-2015, 19:05
Sorry for my ignorant question, but although it is nice to have live telemetry data, couldn't the game simply save this data locally into a save file? Than that save file could be uploaded somewhere (dropbox, box, google drive etc.), or perhaps simply copied via USB to a stick and analyzed by an external app.

Say, before living the pits u could mark a save telemetry data and that it. Run the laps and analyze it later, which BTW is what many engineers do anyway! A post analysis would be already very helpful for us, console players, to help on car setup/tuning...

Fanatest
23-08-2015, 19:44
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

He doesn't post very often... But when he does, It's a doozie!

10 posts in and he has resolved the PS4 reflection issue, and is now taking on one of the PS4s most wanted features!

I imagine him saying "Stoke me a klipper, I'll be back for Christmas" every night as he leaves work :D

Whadda guy!

SkechBG
23-08-2015, 20:14
Great news about the posibility of App for ps4...

Gravit8
23-08-2015, 20:26
Sounds very promising. We just hope Sony pull their finger out. Thanks.

Why would it be Sony's fault?. Do you think they hid this info from the handful of developers doing it in other games? Let's not start this again.

Gravit8
23-08-2015, 20:28
Sorry for my ignorant question, but although it is nice to have live telemetry data, couldn't the game simply save this data locally into a save file? Than that save file could be uploaded somewhere (dropbox, box, google drive etc.), or perhaps simply copied via USB to a stick and analyzed by an external app.

Say, before living the pits u could mark a save telemetry data and that it. Run the laps and analyze it later, which BTW is what many engineers do anyway! A post analysis would be already very helpful for us, console players, to help on car setup/tuning...

Agree with this. If they never get it to external apps live in real time. Having it in replay is the bare minimum expected. As it were now. The work around and extra work needed to view telemetry make it of no use to me.

the-D-
24-08-2015, 02:36
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

I would absolutely love a telemetry app for my iPad and or iPhone, could it also do a motel style so no need for any on screen data, just cockpit?, that would effing rock

jason
24-08-2015, 02:39
I would absolutely love a telemetry app for my iPad and or iPhone, could it also do a motel style so no need for any on screen data, just cockpit?, that would effing rock

Yes it would +1 :)

cjorgens79
24-08-2015, 10:03
Okay, I've sent an enquiry to 1st party regarding it's validity, so will await their reply. In the meantime I've coded it up so if you send "CONNECT" null-terminated string to port 5600 it will start replying to the address/port you sent from with the default 7316 byte shared memory buffer. I haven't bothered filling in the telemetry data yet, but things like game state and version number are all valid. Update rate is 200ms, will need to be tested fully for performance and network flooding.

Thanks for the update Tim.

In terms of update rate, 200ms is quite slow and very noticable on apps making use of the telemetry in a "live" way. The default i use for my transmitter is 50ms, which seems to be a good balance between a smooth update rate visually on the device and minimal network/cpu overheads. I have pushed it much faster than that without problems, but 50 seems a good balance. If you have a copy of my app, give it a try at 50ms and 200ms and see the difference. My transmitter app has a slider for adjusting transmit rate. If you don't have the app PM me and i can send you a promo code to use on iOS to see what i mean.

Outputting the full shared memory struct as a byte array will have a few draw backs which is why i suggested converting the output to json. A 7316 byte packet will need to be fragmented a number of times for transmission, and this will result in some support issues as some older intermediary hardware (routers, ap's etc) seems to have problems with this and will just drop the udp packets. Ive had to deal with a small percentage of pCars Dash users with intermediary hardware which have these problems. Ive just finished converting to an optimised packet under the 1500 byte mtu which has resolved their issues completely, other had issues due to jumbo frames/packets being enabled on their PC's but not on their routers/ap's causing the same packet dropping (probably not a problem in consoles though). Having said that, i do have 2 packet types to achieve this size, one output every 50ms and the other once per lap / change of state with static data such as car/track name, player names etc, basically stuff that doesn't change during the session. The 50ms updates have just about everything useful from the api that needs updating in real time.

The other issue i see with just outputting the entire struct is that if it ever changes it will instantly break all companion apps unless any additions are only made to the end of the structure. A json steam would not have this issue, compatibility would remain with existing apps when changes are made to the shared memory struct.

In terms of formatting as json, you wont need a fancy json library or a lot of extra code, json format is simple enough that you can effectively format the entire packet into valid json with a single sprintf call.

Tim Mann
24-08-2015, 10:33
I'm still waiting to hear back. But would you be happy to share your format? If you've already got the code to convert from memory buffer to json then I can just output in json format, but to be fair to all 3rd parties the format would need to be open. The data rate isn't fixed, I just set it at that to test.

cjorgens79
24-08-2015, 11:46
I'm still waiting to hear back. But would you be happy to share your format? If you've already got the code to convert from memory buffer to json then I can just output in json format, but to be fair to all 3rd parties the format would need to be open. The data rate isn't fixed, I just set it at that to test.

yep no worries, i'm about to head out so will PM the details for review/discussion later.

TrueNOS2
24-08-2015, 15:32
Excellent work guys!!! I was quite confident that this would become a reality. I've been pushing for this since week one of release. I am really looking forward to seeing what you come up with! Thank you for your interest and knowledge and persistence to coming up with a solution. This will make the game that much better. :loyal:

Liquid7394
24-08-2015, 18:14
There are 3rd party games that use the second screen function on the PlayStation App. PvZ Garden Warfare uses it for commander mode. Hopefully Sony let you use it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/2qs16f/is_there_a_list_of_games_that_utilize_the/

inthebagbud
24-08-2015, 18:18
yep no worries, i'm about to head out so will PM the details for review/discussion later.

Jumping in and being cheeky but any chance cjorgens that you could mention xbox as well in the discussion

Apologies PS4 guys for jumping in on your thread ............. exits quickly back across the divide

Redslayer
24-08-2015, 18:54
There is a 'companion app' api on PS4. I've just had a look at the 'shared memory' api. I can probably knock something up which will dump the same layout out to a port if there's interest.

You have my ear citizen.

Fil140
24-08-2015, 22:19
Oh there's interest my friend, there's interest.
There is interest right??

Texmex675
25-08-2015, 06:26
Yes! Would be awesome to use my 9inch tablet for telemetry etc.!

PureMalt77
25-08-2015, 06:58
Sorry for my ignorant question, but although it is nice to have live telemetry data, couldn't the game simply save this data locally into a save file? Than that save file could be uploaded somewhere (dropbox, box, google drive etc.), or perhaps simply copied via USB to a stick and analyzed by an external app.

Say, before living the pits u could mark a save telemetry data and that it. Run the laps and analyze it later, which BTW is what many engineers do anyway! A post analysis would be already very helpful for us, console players, to help on car setup/tuning...

Just bumping my own post. What's wrong in saving telemetry data for offline analysis? Could be a generic game feature, and hopefully, multi-platform...
PS: I have nothing against live telemetry! On the contrary. But I'm thinking about alternatives in case we hear "bad news" if something can't be done...

tgrey
25-08-2015, 07:06
Just bumping my own post. What's wrong in saving telemetry data for offline analysis? Could be a generic game feature, and hopefully, multi-platform...
PS: I have nothing against live telemetry! On the contrary. But I'm thinking about alternatives in case we hear "bad news" if something can't be done...

Nothing is wrong with it, but that's not what we're interested in discussing in this thread, plus it's already been brought up multiple times here. Having data available real time is totally different than viewing it after the fact. Both are great abilities to have, for their own separate reasons.

Ideally if we can get live telemetry working for second screens, an external app can store that data too... one solution to both problems. Check out these apps, all appear to store your data for analysis after the race:
http://www.tomshane.cz/profiler/
http://pcarstelemetry.wordpress.com/
http://www.vrhive.co.uk/

Fre.Mo
25-08-2015, 09:15
Just bumping my own post. What's wrong in saving telemetry data for offline analysis? Could be a generic game feature, and hopefully, multi-platform...
PS: I have nothing against live telemetry! On the contrary. But I'm thinking about alternatives in case we hear "bad news" if something can't be done...

Yes, it could at least be used to compare, a posteriori, trajectories, gear ratio used during cornering, etc, for the different laps.

chig88
25-08-2015, 10:30
Yeah, the forecast says it'll be raining "likes" for you Tim. :cool:

216132

gruzzlebeard
25-08-2015, 12:38
This would be great :encouragement:

cjorgens79
25-08-2015, 13:56
Jumping in and being cheeky but any chance cjorgens that you could mention xbox as well in the discussion

Apologies PS4 guys for jumping in on your thread ............. exits quickly back across the divide

i get the impresion that this api would be available on both, tim is waiting to hear back from the big boys (sony/ms) with relation to an query he had about what we want to do

MikeyTT
25-08-2015, 14:43
Nothing is wrong with it, but that's not what we're interested in discussing in this thread, plus it's already been brought up multiple times here. Having data available real time is totally different than viewing it after the fact. Both are great abilities to have, for their own separate reasons.

Ideally if we can get live telemetry working for second screens, an external app can store that data too... one solution to both problems. Check out these apps, all appear to store your data for analysis after the race:
http://www.tomshane.cz/profiler/
http://pcarstelemetry.wordpress.com/
http://www.vrhive.co.uk/

I was told about the possible PS4 support for an API from one in your PS4 fold. I'm the author of vrHive and as soon as SMS release the PS4 details I'll retrofit that into my app.

Just to clarify on the live side of things for vrHive. I have both the live and store for later viewing sides covered. When you connect to the API you can display live dashes, and all of the data captured is farmed away so you can review at a later date. Here is the 1st page of the guide with a couple of screenshots:

216150

Fre.Mo
25-08-2015, 20:21
I was told about the possible PS4 support for an API from one in your PS4 fold. I'm the author of vrHive and as soon as SMS release the PS4 details I'll retrofit that into my app.

Just to clarify on the live side of things for vrHive. I have both the live and store for later viewing sides covered. When you connect to the API you can display live dashes, and all of the data captured is farmed away so you can review at a later date. Here is the 1st page of the guide with a couple of screenshots:

216150

This looks great, I hope you could finalise the ps4 compatible version...

Tim Mann
25-08-2015, 20:38
No update at the moment chaps, still waiting to hear back from 1st parties (requests have gone to both, the code would be very similar and I would do both platforms). It's actually quite an unusual request for them, as we are basically asking for the ability for non-approved developers to be able to access data directly from a console game. So we have to specify everything in quite some detail.

Note: This is completely different from us providing (or a licensed developer providing) a 'companion app', where of course we have access to all second screen and companion app api's. I'm trying to give you (as in 3rd party non-licensed developers) the ability to access telemetry data directly from the console, so you can write your own (or indeed adapt some of the very fine apps that have already been developed for PC).

The data format would be open to all, same as the PC version.

theitalian06
25-08-2015, 20:48
Thank You Tim for listening to us. I hope and pray that Microsoft and Sony understand what you as a developer are asking for and agree to letting this happen. This is a great step forward in the console racing business and its great to see you guys are leading the way. I can't wait for any updates and will be watching this thread closely. Thanks once again.

jason
25-08-2015, 20:52
There is obviously a great deal of work and time to give this the possibility of happening ..............which ever way it goes thank you Tim for making it a possibility +100 to you.

Umer Ahmad
25-08-2015, 21:36
Tim: Thanks for commenting here. I'll warm up the karaoke machine & the bar is ready for you!

diesel97
25-08-2015, 21:49
No update at the moment chaps, still waiting to hear back from 1st parties (requests have gone to both, the code would be very similar and I would do both platforms). It's actually quite an unusual request for them, as we are basically asking for the ability for non-approved developers to be able to access data directly from a console game. So we have to specify everything in quite some detail.

Note: This is completely different from us providing (or a licensed developer providing) a 'companion app', where of course we have access to all second screen and companion app api's. I'm trying to give you (as in 3rd party non-licensed developers) the ability to access telemetry data directly from the console, so you can write your own (or indeed adapt some of the very fine apps that have already been developed for PC).

The data format would be open to all, same as the PC version.

thanks for the update / no update that 2 minute reply goes a long way in the community,and putting the xbox users at ease

jerry555
25-08-2015, 21:57
Top Mann Tim......:encouragement:

Gravit8
26-08-2015, 01:05
No update at the moment chaps, still waiting to hear back from 1st parties (requests have gone to both, the code would be very similar and I would do both platforms). It's actually quite an unusual request for them, as we are basically asking for the ability for non-approved developers to be able to access data directly from a console game. So we have to specify everything in quite some detail.



The data format would be open to all, same as the PC version.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There in lies the rub huh. Sounds like a problem? Sony won't like that. Proper trolling right there.
Why not just tell us only licensed developers who play by Sony's rules get access to their API.
And your not licensed and playing ball?
Or am I reading the situation wrong.
Would Sony allow an open data format at all? Have they in the past?
Is that not the purpose of a licensed developer? One who hides the API/data format so it can't be hacked or give away inside info?

madmax2069
26-08-2015, 01:23
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There in lies the rub huh. Sounds like a problem? Sony won't like that. Proper trolling right there.
Why not just tell us only licensed developers who play by Sony's rules get access to their API.
And your not licensed and playing ball?
Or am I reading the situation wrong.
Would Sony allow an open data format at all? Have they in the past?
Is that not the purpose of a licensed developer? One who hides the API/data format so it can't be hacked or give away inside info?

Obviously not too much of a issue.

Gaijin has a API in War thunder which does this exact thing with 3rd party app developers, and sony allows them to do it, what would be different with this situation ?

Gravit8
26-08-2015, 01:39
Obviously not too much of a issue.

Gaijin has a API in War thunder which does this exact thing with 3rd party app developers, and sony allows them to do it, what would be different with this situation ?

Whether or not you need a license? If war thunder ps team is licensed. That's different, or at least I am concerned that might be what were about to find out.
The difference between a licensed and unlicensed developer.?
War thunder is a sony IP or exclusive whatever. It's specific to this platform and war thunder seems like a likely licensed developer that received access to API because of it.

I'm asking if Sony has ever granted access to an unlicensed developer? That's clearly what SMS is to them if I'm reading right.
The license serves a purpose of some kind. I hope it's not meant to stop access to the API. But it might be.

Liquid7394
26-08-2015, 05:41
War Thunder is a console exclusive, it's available on PC.

madmax2069
26-08-2015, 06:05
Whether or not you need a license? If war thunder ps team is licensed. That's different, or at least I am concerned that might be what were about to find out.
The difference between a licensed and unlicensed developer.?
War thunder is a sony IP or exclusive whatever. It's specific to this platform and war thunder seems like a likely licensed developer that received access to API because of it.

I'm asking if Sony has ever granted access to an unlicensed developer? That's clearly what SMS is to them if I'm reading right.
The license serves a purpose of some kind. I hope it's not meant to stop access to the API. But it might be.

Yes Gaijin is licensed (but Gaijin self published the game, basically independent developers), but the third party that makes the App (called WT tactical Map on google play store, developed by JunkCode) is not, it was initially only designed to work on PC, then Gaijin added the capability on the PS4 long after the PS4 version launched (which so happened to allow it work with the App). That 3rd party app was made a while before the PS4 version of War Thunder launched.

That is no different then what SMS is trying to do here

Bealdor
26-08-2015, 07:20
Whether or not you need a license? If war thunder ps team is licensed. That's different, or at least I am concerned that might be what were about to find out.
The difference between a licensed and unlicensed developer.?
War thunder is a sony IP or exclusive whatever. It's specific to this platform and war thunder seems like a likely licensed developer that received access to API because of it.

I'm asking if Sony has ever granted access to an unlicensed developer? That's clearly what SMS is to them if I'm reading right.
The license serves a purpose of some kind. I hope it's not meant to stop access to the API. But it might be.

It's not about SMS. They are a licenced developer of course. The guys that are making those apps are not.

Bluedice
26-08-2015, 11:45
It's not about SMS. They are a licenced developer of course. The guys that are making those apps are not.

Theoretically it shouldn't be a problem though since those apps won't be actually making any direct use of Sony's PS4 API, they will all be basically listening to a port that is broadcasting a formatted text output. The only problem for Sony would be to check for security exploits implications this may end up bringing depending on how it's implemented. Something that shouldn't be a problem in my opinion since it would be a one way communication from the system out.

Let's see how this one rolls. My fingers are crossed here for a positive outcome.

Tim Mann
26-08-2015, 19:11
Nothing new to add today, except emails are still going back and forward (put it this way, no one has turned round and said a definite 'no' yet). I'll keep you informed when I know one way or the other.

tgrey
26-08-2015, 19:20
I wonder... could this ability (if added) potentially be used for more advanced purposes, such as running a buttkicker off data instead of audio, or even possibly powering a motion rig with position/g-force telemetry data? That'd be a seriously huge plus for the PS4 gamers.

Gravit8
26-08-2015, 21:07
Yes Gaijin is licensed (but Gaijin self published the game, basically independent developers), but the third party that makes the App (called WT tactical Map on google play store, developed by JunkCode) is not, it was initially only designed to work on PC, then Gaijin added the capability on the PS4 long after the PS4 version launched (which so happened to allow it work with the App). That 3rd party app was made a while before the PS4 version of War Thunder launched.

That is no different then what SMS is trying to do here

Thanks for info. Hope it happens.

Crisis Nine
27-08-2015, 07:52
Nothing new to add today, except emails are still going back and forward (put it this way, no one has turned round and said a definite 'no' yet). I'll keep you informed when I know one way or the other.

Thanks Tim, every day I check the SMS Posts and I always seem to see you giving an update on this. It's good to see somebody being so proactive and giving regular updates. Not that others don't, but I felt you needed to be singeld out in particular.

Fil140
28-08-2015, 16:55
I second that!

Synner40
29-08-2015, 13:01
Nothing new to add today, except emails are still going back and forward (put it this way, no one has turned round and said a definite 'no' yet). I'll keep you informed when I know one way or the other.

even if we get stuck with a single "companion" app. I'll be happy. please please let this happen. even if third party delvopers have to sign a waver or something please let it happen.

2stains
29-08-2015, 13:43
Nothing new to add today, except emails are still going back and forward (put it this way, no one has turned round and said a definite 'no' yet). I'll keep you informed when I know one way or the other.thanx for the updates

azidahaka
29-08-2015, 16:17
I might get a ps Vita for it if it is the only way to get the companion app! O_o

Fanatest
29-08-2015, 21:36
I might get a ps Vita for it if it is the only way to get the companion app! O_o

If that was the ONLY way to get it to work... I'd buy 2! :D

dark shadow
29-08-2015, 23:47
I would like it if they use the second screen on the playstation app to display your speedo or lap times to utilise all of the functions on the ps4

RyoHazukiITA
31-08-2015, 11:58
Any news?

2stains
01-09-2015, 07:28
Is this thing going to happen . It guy from SMS said he should be able to whip something up. How long does it take to whip something up i wonder?

stevemontuno
01-09-2015, 08:42
Is this thing going to happen . It guy from SMS said he should be able to whip something up. How long does it take to whip something up i wonder?

i don't think it actually like making an angel delight,,,,,its a figure of speach ,,lol

jason
01-09-2015, 08:47
i don't think it actually like making an angel delight,,,,,its a figure of speach ,,lol

Lol well said .

2stains
01-09-2015, 09:41
i don't think it actually like making an angel delight,,,,,its a figure of speach ,,lol

I realize that! I'm just asking and trying to keep this topic at the top of the forum .

jason
01-09-2015, 22:13
I realize that! I'm just asking and trying to keep this topic at the top of the forum .

:) :)

cjorgens79
02-09-2015, 00:04
as far as i know discussions are still on going with microsoft and sony with regards to being allowed to do this, Tim will let us know whats going on as soon as he has an update worth sharing... patience you must have my young padawans.

also keep in mind that if everything is approved, it will still take a while before a new game patch can be built, tested, approved by ms/sony and ultimately released for the consoles AND the companion app developers will also need to add support to their apps to make them work with the console api.

Tim Mann
05-09-2015, 20:27
As it's been a while.....all I can say at the moment is that the concept has been 'approved' by one 1st party (not so much approved, but they raised no objections and there was nothing in the TRC's provided we didn't use a restricted list of port numbers). The other 1st party, emails are still going back and forth.

We have another chap here who's already done some UDP server code which outputs the shared memory struct, so I'm sure between us we can come up with a satisfactory format. I'm unable to give you a time frame at the moment as this is something I need to do in my own time (as the day job is all rendering related), but I'll try and squeeze it into one of the forth coming patches.

Tim

Fre.Mo
05-09-2015, 20:43
Really, what a great news! Thanks for your efforts.

jerry555
05-09-2015, 21:13
Sounds good....

Mr.Smoke
05-09-2015, 22:37
Good stuff!!

jimmyb_84
05-09-2015, 22:53
Great news!!!

can someone change thread title to [work in progress] or something similar;)

Umer Ahmad
05-09-2015, 22:58
Guys, guys. Timm did not mention that "other 1st party" = Nintendo ;)

Title updated.

mjemec11
05-09-2015, 23:11
It's happening, lads!

tgrey
06-09-2015, 00:25
It's awesome to see this progressing! I had another idea... I don't think the second screens already do this, but not having a PC I wouldn't know for sure:

It would be great if when pressing the "Cycle Motec" button, a flag is sent to the second screen device telling it to change screens too. This would allow a button to remotely change the "external motec" similar to how the cockpit one cycles.

This would be a benefit because it would allow a driver wearing gloves to change the screen, and it would allow an external screen mounted out of reach but still have it able to be cycled.

cjorgens79
06-09-2015, 02:08
It's awesome to see this progressing! I had another idea... I don't think the second screens already do this, but not having a PC I wouldn't know for sure:

It would be great if when pressing the "Cycle Motec" button, a flag is sent to the second screen device telling it to change screens too. This would allow a button to remotely change the "external motec" similar to how the cockpit one cycles.

This would be a benefit because it would allow a driver wearing gloves to change the screen, and it would allow an external screen mounted out of reach but still have it able to be cycled.

My pCars Dash app for the PC version of Project Cars does this, you can allocate controller buttons to function assignments in the app like "next page", "previous page", or a fixed page. I would not be able to do this for any console version though as i dont have access to the key hooks. With the PC version i run a seperate transmitter app which hooks the controller inputs, monitors them and outputs the required messages to perform functions from button presses. With the consoles we cant run our own apps on them, so I have no way to read the controller details.

tgrey
06-09-2015, 02:23
My pCars Dash app for the PC version of Project Cars does this, you can allocate controller buttons to function assignments in the app like "next page", "previous page", or a fixed page. I would not be able to do this for any console version though as i dont have access to the key hooks. With the PC version i run a seperate transmitter app which hooks the controller inputs, monitors them and outputs the required messages to perform functions from button presses. With the consoles we cant run our own apps on them, so I have no way to read the controller details.

My thought was to have the game (or secondary app) that's already going to be sending the data with a bit in the structure dedicated to the motec key. Nearly all packets would have that bit off, but each time the key is pressed you'd see the bit flipped on in the telemetry data being transmitted. If the second screen apps knew to look for it, and were configured to allow it, it'd cause the screen to change.

I realize it would rely on SMS building in this functionality, not just the second screen app developers. Just thought it was a cool idea I'd throw out there, who knows if we'll ever see it.

madmax2069
06-09-2015, 03:38
My pCars Dash app for the PC version of Project Cars does this, you can allocate controller buttons to function assignments in the app like "next page", "previous page", or a fixed page. I would not be able to do this for any console version though as i dont have access to the key hooks. With the PC version i run a seperate transmitter app which hooks the controller inputs, monitors them and outputs the required messages to perform functions from button presses. With the consoles we cant run our own apps on them, so I have no way to read the controller details.

I do know that the Offical PSN app has something like this, you can move around in the menu system on the PS4 over the network from the offical PSN app. But is it locked to only the offical app, or can licensed devs take advantage of this funtion ?

217433

tgrey
06-09-2015, 07:50
I do know that the Offical PSN app has something like this, you can move around in the menu system on the PS4 over the network from the offical PSN app. But is it locked to only the offical app, or can licensed devs take advantage of this funtion ?


I'm talking about moving keypresses the other direction. Your example has keypresses on the second screen affecting what happens on the ps4, I'm suggesting having keypresses on the ps4 affecting what happens on the second screen.

Fre.Mo
06-09-2015, 07:53
Shall I order a ipad mount already? :rolleyes: