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vanpeers
12-05-2015, 13:06
Hi,


So my question is; will there be Logitech steering wheel support in the (nearby) future? And when or why not?

I really hope someone of the developers finally answers this question, because they called there-self a 'community made game' and the (hardcore) PS4 community want this or at least a little explanation why not.


Reply in this topic if you also want this added!

Dasidnii
12-05-2015, 13:13
It's not up to SMS, its up to PlayStation and Logitech. I guess Logitech needs a specific security chip inside of the wheel for it to work to be compatible, and since they don't fully support their wheels anymore, it probably won't happen.

vanpeers
12-05-2015, 13:18
It's not up to SMS, its up to PlayStation and Logitech. I guess Logitech needs a specific security chip inside of the wheel for it to work to be compatible, and since they don't fully support their wheels any-more, it probably won't happen.

Yes i believe that SMS is not responsible for this, but they always avoid these questions (interviews, twitter,...) and never say WHY not.

The security chip is not the reason, there are Fanatecs that are supported that also don't have this chip...

pimmbj
12-05-2015, 15:34
Hi,

I agree, there is nothing we can do as little consumers, but a game developer should be able tot direct our concern towards Sony/logitech..

If licensing costs are the issue we could use crowd-funding :-)

thegt500
12-05-2015, 16:49
Hi, the way I see it is Logitech stopped manufacturing peripherals for the console market in December 2013 and withdrew from console support. Now Sony, who actually pay a licence fee to a company called Immersion (who own the rights to the FFB technology used for PC and console) will obviously want to recoup their money by charging the wheel manufacturer for compatibility (same goes for Microsoft with the Xbone). Thrustmaster and Fanatec still make and support wheels etc, so they will make money by selling new peripherals. Logitech however, are out of the market and won't make a penny out of any investment they'd have to pay Sony / Microsoft to allow them to be used.
Even if an individual developer writes specific drivers for Logitech wheels to be used, they'd still have to pay for the licence to whichever console manufacturer, which won't be cheap. The talk about a 'security chip' was just a load of tripe to try and placate owners of older, non compliant wheels.
Take the Thrustmaster T500 wheel for instance. This wheel was officially licenced for the PS3, long before the PS4 came along so doesn't have any security chip. The reason it works on PS4 is because Thrustmaster have struck a deal (paid a licence fee) with Sony so it can be used. Fanatec have obviously done the same for their wheels as they can still sell new wheels.
Unless Logitech decides to re enter the console market, I can't see support for their wheels happening !

PhaedrusSocrates
12-05-2015, 18:09
I don't work for logitech, don't worry ;) BUT I must tell you that another company is responsible for all of these problems.

Company called Immersion owns patent rights for specific ForceFeedback technology that Logitech used in all of their wheels...
So, there is a contract witch pays Immersion company for their patent dating back at the beginning of PS2 era... it states that it covers the PS2 and PS3 not any other future Sony consoles (meaning that they must be payed AGAIN to allow their patent to be used on PS4).

BUT THAT PATENT IS DUE TO EXPIRE IN 6 MONTHS :)

Every game developer since PS2 era already has drivers for Logitech wheels ready, they just need freedom to implement them without being sued by IMMERSION. Once that patent is out, it will not be Logitech's job to make yours/ours wheels work, but simply if developers of whatever games update their games with those Logitecs drivers...

One more thing - reason why Logitech AND Sony are avoiding giving us direct answer is because of that contract. If they were to start saying "Immersion are gready bastar...ds and you should just wait for 6 more months" - then Immersion could sue them for SH-i-t load of money ;)

Let me repeat most important part:

BUT THAT PATENT IS DUE TO EXPIRE IN 6 MONTHS :)

bigwillydier
12-05-2015, 19:45
Whatever happens.. I hope it happens soon.. preferably BEFORE I buy a new wheel.. which is precisely why it would simply be nice to know whether Logitech support is coming or not..

Sebstinator
12-05-2015, 21:53
So I will get a G27 at Xmas? Good news... :D

PhaedrusSocrates
12-05-2015, 23:58
Whatever happens.. I hope it happens soon.. preferably BEFORE I buy a new wheel.. which is precisely why it would simply be nice to know whether Logitech support is coming or not..

Please, read again, every developer since PS2 era allready have original Logitech drivers, so does SMS ;) That is complete and total ''suport'' that any developer is ever going to need to make use of Logitech wheels. Its just the case of them having to keep their mouths shut to avoid being sued by Immersion for sick amount of money... Until that patent expires, soon, after 20 long years.

Well, I am greatfull to Immersion for enjoying that technology of theirs - both in past and in Future ;)

GTR
13-05-2015, 00:42
Please, read again, every developer since PS2 era allready have original Logitech drivers, so does SMS ;) That is complete and total ''suport'' that any developer is ever going to need to make use of Logitech wheels. You can't use PS2 drivers on PS4.

David50100
13-05-2015, 02:21
So the way I understand it is the whole "chip" thing is bull ... T500 proves that. It's a matter of paying a license and Logitech is pulling out so why pay. It's Logitech's fault and they should support their products.

THE-Smike
13-05-2015, 11:14
The thing is that SONY included a security chip which handles inputs differently that the G25 and G27 do not support out of the box because they are too old. However, it would be possible for Logutech with some sort of driver which translates the signals correctly (just like the scpserver software for the DS4 on the PC to handle xinput wrapper) BUT Sony would need to send out an API to Logitech so that they could start coding the drivers but Thrustmaster has the PS License atm so i think that we wont see Logitech wheel support on the PS4 for ever because of the Thrustmaster marketing aspect & Logitech not carrying about wheels anymore since Thrustmaster & Fanatec are growing so fast

Liquid7394
13-05-2015, 11:49
Logitech don't care about console peripherals anymore. If they wanted their wheels to work then they would.

Umer Ahmad
13-05-2015, 11:53
My G27 works great on PC for project cars.

I dont think this a technology issue, it is a business issue between Sony and Logitech. They day that is resolved you will see Logitech wheels added to the officially supported vendor list for project cars

PhaedrusSocrates
13-05-2015, 12:57
You can't use PS2 drivers on PS4.

Yes, you are absolutely right! And this is where we are getting to the core of the metter. Yes, you can't just copy/paste codes for wheel support across different platforms - you CAN do that with textures, audio and plenty of other recources BUT NOT with coding for wheel support.

I'm sure you have seen complaints in the "Fanatec support" part of this forum? There you can see TRUE PROBLEM - Fanatec models GT2/GT3/911 work incredibly well, great, on PC, and yet on PS4 they are just controller emulators without any calibration options any many other things. because SMS couldn't just copy/paste coding from PC platform of THOSE SAME WHEELS into the consoles.
They have to write entire codes that communicate with drivers from zero and they just didn't have time or money or people or know-how to do it on time (THEY WILL EVENTUALLY, I believe in them :) )

The point is (to put it simply) that drivers are just a "language" that enables precise and complex communication between three parties - PLATFORM / GAME / WHEEL - communication must be so complex and precise because providing QUALITY Force Feedback support demands it.

So, it is not down to Logitech or Fanatec support here - that support is ALREADY provided, it is about SMS employees to code for communication between platform/wheel/game, from ground up for every single platform.

Everybody already has all the support from Logitech, but their wheels are not allowed to be used on PS4 platform because of Immersion company. They own patent rights to force feedback technology that Logi implemented in all of their wheels - but that patent is due to expire in 6 months!

Immersion demands stupid amounts of money, so Sony and Logi just wont pay up - they will rather wait out these 6 more months. But they must keep their mouths shut about it, otherwise Immersion would still sue them for the same stupid amount of money, that's also part of all such contracts anywhere ;)

PhaedrusSocrates
13-05-2015, 13:05
@David50100, The-Smike. Liquid, Umer... - No it's immersions "fault", and they are just trying to make some money on their patent... Honestly, you posted without even reading other posts in this same thread.

sysmik--
13-05-2015, 16:51
What's the name oh the patent ?

Umer Ahmad
13-05-2015, 17:06
No it's immersions "fault", and they are just trying to make some money on their patent...
yes, it is a Business problem at the core. Not a technology problem.

If the companies (all the companies involved) signed the papers it could be solved without a single line of additional code I bet.

PhaedrusSocrates
13-05-2015, 17:13
Feel free to browse neogaf forum for even more detail. One of the poster even recovered exact contract between Immersion -Sony - Logitech, dating from PS2 era. It specified that it covers PS2 AND future PS3 console (witch makes it clear it doesn't cover any further). Don't remember his name but another poster talking directly with him was ''Amar''.

I don't know the name of the patent, i'm just kinda bit more informed gamer. Make of it what you will. But from every single aspect of this matter, it makes sense. You blame anyone you wanna blame, man, and i'll just post what I know about it. I have a Fanatec with G27 pedals and i'm waiting for my G27 wheel to rejoin that party in some 6 months.

And, yeah, ultimately time will tell :)

KingKwentyne
14-05-2015, 00:09
So we can expect to never get these wheels to work then. That is an honest shame. I attempted to play the game with a controller and it is impossible to do so on sim settings...

PhaedrusSocrates
14-05-2015, 00:55
Wow, you just can't read properly, right? :) It's amazing!

Sebstinator
14-05-2015, 09:25
@PhaedrusSocrates

Still don't know if I can trust you... ;)

I mean why should they let this patent expire?

PhaedrusSocrates
14-05-2015, 10:18
Because 20 long years is a MAXIMUM for such patents :) Yeah, like it or not, our G25/27 have THAT old technology in them - but that's fine, it works great ;)

Fre.Mo
14-05-2015, 11:38
Does anybody tryed a converter for logitech wheel and ps4? What about force feedback?

Archiekins
14-05-2015, 12:59
Anyone using Driving Force steering wheel?

madmax2069
14-05-2015, 13:43
I know of two converters, neither are worth buying for racing games.
The titan one (lacks FFB, has massive deadzones)
http://www.consoletuner.com/products/titan-one/

And the m4 (lacks full FFB, has massive deadzones)
http://www.match4newconsole.com/

This is the only good video I could find of either converter in a racing game (as the video will show ots not good)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Opfg6vqIR8

jdmnsprd
14-05-2015, 15:34
Because 20 long years is a MAXIMUM for such patents :) Yeah, like it or not, our G25/27 have THAT old technology in them - but that's fine, it works great ;)

And they still handle better then the thrusmaster not to mention the Logitech G25/27 have real leather and not some hard rubber like in the Thrustmasters

memoric77
22-05-2015, 19:22
Just found ;)
https://www.gtplanet.net/logitech-g29-driving-force-wheel-rumored-for-production/