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PeteUplink
12-05-2015, 18:01
I like the career mode in Project Cars. It's far, far better than the usual career modes in things like Gran Tourismo and Forza where you get to race silly little 5 lap races over and over and over again so you can unlock new cars and earn credits. But I feel that it needs to be a bit deeper and give you more feeling that you're driving for a team with a team mate. Also I think all race series should have the option to do full race weekends at every venue, with practise, qualifying, warm-up and 100% race all selectable if you want to do them. For example the Karts races tell you that there are extra points for qualifying, but you don't get to qualify, and it would be nice if you could get to practise the tracks for a few minutes without having to quit out of career and setup a free run.

Le Fix
12-05-2015, 19:17
I agree to this. Yes, there's e-mails. Yes, there are tweets. But... There no feeling of being in a team. I don't even know about the livery? Is it the correct one I'm using? It's about racing and the game does that well. But the career could be deeper. WMD could might even add rivals?

Francorchamps
12-05-2015, 19:28
I agree. For example: I don't know who my team mate is, there is totally no focus on my team mate except for the one time the race engineer says he's in second place. Also the other drivers are totally anonymous. If there were every race other drivers I would not even notice. I'm doing the whole Formula series in career and you would expect that when you arrive in Formula A you know all the drivers by name. Also the team is very anonymous.

Elmo
12-05-2015, 19:30
Moved to Feature Suggestions

wilf
12-05-2015, 20:02
I agree. For example: I don't know who my team mate is, there is totally no focus on my team mate except for the one time the race engineer says he's in second place. Also the other drivers are totally anonymous. If there were every race other drivers I would not even notice. I'm doing the whole Formula series in career and you would expect that when you arrive in Formula A you know all the drivers by name. Also the team is very anonymous.

One thing which might help a little here is a suggestion I'd put in the "ultimate suggestions thread", where it will probably get lost in the avalanche of suggestions and ignored:

"Editable AI driver attributes and names.

I'm assuming all of the AI drivers are unique, with individual attributes which determine their driving styles, personalities, abilities, strengths and weaknesses? I'd love if we could get access to their attributes to at least view them but preferrably edit them, and be able to edit the driver names. That way we could create real-world drivers with attributes which reflect their abilities so we've a better feel for the personalities we are racing against."

I think if we could see a bit more info about (and preferably edit the names and attributes of) the AI drivers, then at least you'd be able to recognise your competitors on track and know their driving styles. I'd like to make up a field with real world BTCC driver names with suitable attributes so I could then recognise when Jason Plato was nipping at my tail, or Colin Turkington or Gordon Shedden was closing me down and so feel more involved and excited. At the moment, the AI are effectively just a bunch of anonymous, unmemorable clones.

Patrik Marek
12-05-2015, 20:08
AI driver names are named by the WMD memebers supporting and helping with the development of the game, I'm not a huge fan of people being able to edit names for that very reason

not sure how their attributes work, if they are per driver or just somewhat random

NinjaWookiee
12-05-2015, 20:15
In the Kart series the Sprint Race functions as qualifying and as far as I know you get extra points for that.

But more to the point I'd welcome a more immersive career as well! The emails and tweets are simply patched together out of random bits and pieces, some of which don't even make sense in some cases and I have seen much repetition already. At first I thought: "Torque Riders, he? Long history, family cooperation, wondering what makes their offering different from the newcomer team?" But nope, it's just an emtpy shell of a name. Admittedly, that level of roleplay might be a bit much for a racing sim but it would be nice to give the choices we make some meaning. Also having a distinct team livery and team mate and seeing some of the other drivers progress the career ladder alongside you would add a whole lot to the concept of "THE ULTIMATE DRIVER JOURNEY...".

Francorchamps
12-05-2015, 20:39
I would not go as far as editing the names of the drivers. I would give the drivers a face. At the beginning of every championship you would get an overview of the drivers like the one you get at every formula 1 race. I would not do it for every race but only at the beginning of the championship. In the news section put articles were other drivers challenge you.

For the team I would design the menu styled to your teams color and logo because if you would ask me for which team I'm driving I could not answer you. Really, I don't know what team I'm driving for ;)

fallfromgrace
12-05-2015, 20:51
I just created a thread - http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?24287-Career-Mode-AI-driver-speed - which touches on the subject of AI driver skill in career mode. I get the feeling that specific AI driver performance, on a round to round basis, is pretty much random. In the championships I've participated in I really haven't seen anyone performing high end results all the way through the series. Instead it's top result one weekend following a weak showing the next. In the end the championships tend to be blowouts even though every race are really close. If the drivers are named after people involved in the game develompent, it makes sense that performance is randomized.

Personally I'd like to be able to edit driver names and respective performance. The most important feature for me though would be more personalized behavior/skill between the respective drivers.

Patrik Marek
12-05-2015, 20:55
If the drivers are named after people involved in the game develompent, it makes sense that performance is randomized.

well there were talks at WMD that "your" AI driver should have performance based on your laptimes in various cars, but I don't know if this was ever implemented.

wilf
12-05-2015, 22:44
AI driver names are named by the WMD memebers supporting and helping with the development of the game, I'm not a huge fan of people being able to edit names for that very reason

I had guessed that the names were based on those involved but perhaps the WMD members will realise that the consumer who pays their for the game doesn't necessarily care about who was involved in helping with the development. If you give the consumer the choice to edit names and attributes, those who do care will leave the names as they are. Those consumers who feel their enjoyment of the game would be benefit from being able to edit the AI drivers names and attributes to create a more immersive experience should not be prevented from doing so. As things stand, each race just feels likes its an isolated event against a bunch of anonymous randoms that virtually none of us have ever heard of. As such, it's difficult to feel any immersion in a "career" and I'm finding that there's little point in playing that mode.

I think that recognising individuals and personalities in any sport is vitally important....that's one of the key things that people latch on to when getting interested, when deciding who to support, who you want to lose and is what engenders passion and excitement. If it's just a bunch of names you've never heard of before, it's like trying to get passionate about a football match between 2 Sunday league teams from some random town.

Michael Zomaya
13-05-2015, 04:36
Career mode honestly needs more depth for the user to invest more time into their career in order to achieving something other than a trophy. What that is, I don't exactly know. Maybe new sponsors with new liveries for you to place onto your car? Invitations from more competitive teams within your Tier? I.e. From Sauber to Mercedes F1.

I just feel like there was soo much promise from PCars Career mode. I want to make more decisions during my career rather than the simple 'would you like to race for us?' offer.

Like I said before, I assumed their would be more depth and realism to the whole career mode, where I started with an entry level team within a Championship that had relatively little or no sponsorship. With better results, sponsors start to jump on-board and then maybe I could invest in a better pit crew, improving my pit-stops. Maybe I could use the sponsor money to invest in a better manufacturer of tyres, giving me that slight edge over the lesser teams?

There is soo much more that goes on within the racing world other than racing and the career mode should encapsulate that to a degree.

Yes I concede that they've followed the path of a 'real' career, but besides having a cumulative set of race weekends, there is no differentiation b/w a race career and a race weekend.

I want to see more depth in a career mode. I want to see the team I'm racing for improve as I secure them wins or placings higher up the grid, whether it's new sponsors, or even maybe new engineers that give you advice on tuning? Again, I'm not talking solution mode, but a career needs to have more going for it than winning a championship.

For instance, Clio Cup, my team-mate consistently was finishing bottom 5 whilst I was placing top 5. Besides some random tweets and emails saying well done, nothing else came of it - Surely there's more that could of been done than a few emails and tweets.

Career mode does little to make me feel part of a team, I know nothing about my team, my team mate, the championship I'm racing in or even the expectation of my team.

Invincible
13-05-2015, 06:37
well there were talks at WMD that "your" AI driver should have performance based on your laptimes in various cars, but I don't know if this was ever implemented.

I think this is implemented. My AI driver always wins pole in qualifying and easily keeps the pack behind him in a race. The thing is, that in qualifying for example, he isn't faster by 0,5 sec, but by 3 to 4 seconds - just like me.

PeteUplink
13-05-2015, 07:34
Career mode honestly needs more depth for the user to invest more time into their career in order to achieving something other than a trophy. What that is, I don't exactly know. Maybe new sponsors with new liveries for you to place onto your car? Invitations from more competitive teams within your Tier? I.e. From Sauber to Mercedes F1.

I just feel like there was soo much promise from PCars Career mode. I want to make more decisions during my career rather than the simple 'would you like to race for us?' offer.

Like I said before, I assumed their would be more depth and realism to the whole career mode, where I started with an entry level team within a Championship that had relatively little or no sponsorship. With better results, sponsors start to jump on-board and then maybe I could invest in a better pit crew, improving my pit-stops. Maybe I could use the sponsor money to invest in a better manufacturer of tyres, giving me that slight edge over the lesser teams?

There is soo much more that goes on within the racing world other than racing and the career mode should encapsulate that to a degree.

Yes I concede that they've followed the path of a 'real' career, but besides having a cumulative set of race weekends, there is no differentiation b/w a race career and a race weekend.

I want to see more depth in a career mode. I want to see the team I'm racing for improve as I secure them wins or placings higher up the grid, whether it's new sponsors, or even maybe new engineers that give you advice on tuning? Again, I'm not talking solution mode, but a career needs to have more going for it than winning a championship.

For instance, Clio Cup, my team-mate consistently was finishing bottom 5 whilst I was placing top 5. Besides some random tweets and emails saying well done, nothing else came of it - Surely there's more that could of been done than a few emails and tweets.

Career mode does little to make me feel part of a team, I know nothing about my team, my team mate, the championship I'm racing in or even the expectation of my team.

This is exactly what I was talking about. The racing is great, and I enjoy the simulation for what it is. I just wish there was a bit more going on in terms of the career.

For example, you start your career by signing for a team. But the team has exactly the same chance of winning the championship as every other team in the series. I think it would be more realistic, and more challenging, if the teams had different performance ratings based upon their budget, and if you get good results it enables the team to improve your car. Your good results could also mean that you get a contract offer from a team higher up the grid that has a chance of winning the championship, if you wish to remain in the race series and not move on to something higher.

Also a short intro video, or something, that introduces your team, who they are, what the car looks like, who you team mate is, would be a nice addition. At least then you'd have some idea of who you're racing for aside from some fairly anonymous emails from some bloke you've never met.

NinjaWookiee
13-05-2015, 08:01
For example, you start your career by signing for a team. But the team has exactly the same chance of winning the championship as every other team in the series. I think it would be more realistic, and more challenging, if the teams had different performance ratings based upon their budget, and if you get good results it enables the team to improve your car. Your good results could also mean that you get a contract offer from a team higher up the grid that has a chance of winning the championship, if you wish to remain in the race series and not move on to something higher.

Nope, I personally don't want that kind of Need-For-Speed-Progression in my racing sim, i want to know I'm on equal footing with everyone else and my input made the difference, not my money. I dont want to lose because of a bad race engineer or subpar exhaust pipe (even if that's not true, that would be on your mind, wouldn't it). Plus I think that is a different kind of game altogether and would probably take too much development time at this point.

For me, just give the drivers and teams more personality!

PeteUplink
13-05-2015, 08:16
Nope, I personally don't want that kind of Need-For-Speed-Progression in my racing sim, i want to know I'm on equal footing with everyone else and my input made the difference, not my money. I dont want to lose because of a bad race engineer or subpar exhaust pipe (even if that's not true, that would be on your mind, wouldn't it). Plus I think that is a different kind of game altogether and would probably take too much development time at this point.

For me, just give the drivers and teams more personality!

Well how about an option to make all cars equal like they had in Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix games, that you could turn off and on as you wish? Wouldn't be hard to implement.

And besides, I'm not saying that we should turn this into Codemasters F1 series where you have to do R&D to unlock parts. I just think that if you sign a contract to drive for Mercedes Super Team A (or whatever) that has a multi-million pound setup and state of the art facilities, you should have a faster car than if you were driving for Fred Scroggins Spare Parts Racing who operate out of a small industrial estate on a shoe string budget. But, and here's the crucial bit, if you do well in Fred's team, the car steadily improves race by race over the season and you get to compete with the big boys. A reward for your hard work.

Michael Zomaya
13-05-2015, 08:18
Nope, I personally don't want that kind of Need-For-Speed-Progression in my racing sim, i want to know I'm on equal footing with everyone else and my input made the difference, not my money. I dont want to lose because of a bad race engineer or subpar exhaust pipe (even if that's not true, that would be on your mind, wouldn't it). Plus I think that is a different kind of game altogether and would probably take too much development time at this point.

For me, just give the drivers and teams more personality!

Then don't play career, play Race Weekend...

Like I said before, they haven't differentiated the difference b/w Race Career and Race Weekend.

MULTIVITZ
21-05-2015, 21:11
Its based on realism, the cars are real replicas of real team efforts in development of the cars. So a performance increase would scare most, and maybe break it. There is a performance reduction thing in the race setup I think if you want more equal racing. I have played racing games with career modes that are quite fun, with your team mate threatening you n stuff, they take a team time to produce and tonnes of story boards. You could have celebs doing voice overs lol most of them would do it for a bit of VIP treatment and to have their name in the credits. Its all about time, not money. JMO.

Mr Akina
21-05-2015, 22:09
I would settle for a race number, a helmet and to be in the same pit garage as my teammate at the start of the race.

Patrik Marek
22-05-2015, 08:21
the reason (one of) why they can't have different performance between various teams is licensing, car manufacturers want their cars to have equal chance of winning,

sure,this could (and I think should) be implemented for fantasy cars/series, because it will give career mode more sense, you will start in lower team and try to fight your way into the best teams and chance for title

Lazytown
22-05-2015, 11:27
the easiest solution is to give each racer control over their own career by making it customizable. Each racer should be able to decide the championships they want at each tier.

For example, why can't I race a 25 round GT4 championship at tracks all over the world? Why not a focus cup instead of clio? And so on, the options are massive when it becomes customizable.

By giving each racer career championship control then well can all do what interests us instead of relying on a prepackaged offering that probably won't satisfy anyone.

Desopit
24-05-2015, 07:05
Hello,

I really like this game, but i need to admit that I'm a little bit disappointed about the career mode.
I'm not a real game fan. But more a motorsport fan. the only games I ever enjoyed and bought are racing games. (good that I'm reading myself before posting, my phone want to say racist games instead of racing games :) )

The last racing ge that I really enjoyed was TOCA/DTM (i prefer touring and GT racing to formula racing, this is why I'm not counting the F1 games. (Even if i wake up to see the F1 races, but then again, i stay awake to see the endurance races)

I like TOCA/DTM, because of the career mode, which gave you objectives. You had a rivality with one or multiple drivers. I'm not talking about the videos giving the feeling of really being in the team, but having emails saying it's him you really need to beat during the series. Your teammate and/or someone else, it doesn't matter. And having kind of a reputation in career mode as well (which can help us creating good relationship or bad relationships with other drivers, by interacting with emails and tweets.)

Adding preseason testing might also be good for testing small improvements, and deciding if yes or not we will use the during the season. Not for all championships, but formula A definitely need something like this, or improvements during the season, like in F1). Most series have grouped preseason testing, Le mans has a testday, which is mandatory to be do, otherwise the driver is not allowed to the race itself. 24 H of Spa has also a testday, but this one is not mandatory. And this might also be a chance where we might get involved with our rival(s) for the season.

And for endurance races having the possibility to share the car with one or 2 other drivers. These other drivers could be decided by our affinity, and the teams affinity). This would also add some thing to the career mode. As we will be teammates on the same car, and fighting against each other the next season. But this might lead to a respectful fight, or a Senna/Prost style of fight. (I'm not talking about the race itself, but the pre and post race information and stuff, having tweets, news articles and mails and stuff, and allowing us to reply to them with standard messages of course).

I know this might be difficult to add in the game, at least all of it. But I don't think i will be the only one liking all these features. (I'm only playing on consoles, so I don't know how PC games are, and if PC racing games continue with the same spirit as the TOCA / DTM games)

What can be added easily in career mode is adding 2 endurance races. (24h of Spa (Only GT3 cars), and the 24h of Zolder (LMP3, GT3, GT4 and modern Touring cars (even clios). I didn't saw them, but they should have been accessible before the 24h of le mans (which came much to quickly, it should not be available in the second season, we might have it the earliest when we already proved something in GT3, and also, limiting us to GT3 or even maybe LMP2, but giving us directly acces to LMP1 should not be an option))I'm from Belgium, so this is why I'm asking it...

Thank you for reading this book, and i hope some ideas will be noted by the game developers. I'm not a computer expert, so I don't know if this is difficult to create or not. But i hope that (of course, if a lot of other people also agree to have this kind of career) it will be analysed.

Kind regards, it's finally the end of the message :)

Pierre-Yves (PS4; PSN ID; desopit)

fallfromgrace
24-05-2015, 08:01
Career mode could be improved by a lot. Just please don't make this in to Toca Race Driver. The career mode was an awful replication of a horrible american racing movie. Sure, there was a rival, but he was more interested in stealing your girlfriend than impressing on track.

What should improve the game, and keep the "sim" aspect to it, would be the implementation on personalized AI drivers. I've written about it here - Career Mode AI driver speed (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?24287-Career-Mode-AI-driver-speed). Especially in the single make series, I would enjoy having some drivers performing better than others. Some teams, even. It's not fun when everybody ends up on the same points and you win the series by finishing fifth in every race. Different drivers on the podium every weekend. That is my main issue.

Desopit
24-05-2015, 08:51
When i say i rival, it's more or less what you are saying. (I don't remember the fact that he tried to steal a girlfriend or something like that, but, it was a long time ago). But i agree, it must stay on racing only.

What i wanted to say with having a rival is someone to have a race in the race.
It's more like in F1 now, youv have the top teams. But we all agree that Lotus has no chance to beat Mercedes. They are fighting against sauber and toro rosso. So, our rival (it's maybe a bad name for it, but it's the only one i could find) should be in those teams.
Or when you're fighting for the title, having an other contender that is giving you a hard time to win the championship (or lose it).

The thing is, that more interaction should be great. I'm not asking videos or something like that. But allowing us to have kind of a media on it. Having interviews, about the team, about our teammate, and about the car, championship etc. seeing the same with other drivers and stuff.

Also having team orders and stuff.

It must be more immersive, because now we are just racing, i don't care about the team and the teammate. I'm doing the clio races, I don't even know which team I'm racing for.

Pierre-Yves (PS4; PSN ID; desopit)

nomen nescio
28-05-2015, 16:35
After finishing the Clio Cup, I'm not interested in the Career mode. I have never been interested in Career modes in any game but I played it because it was necessary to unlock stuff. Luckily for me, we don't have to unlock cars and tracks in pCars. SMS, thank you for that.

Hotlapping and playing online with people that I know whom won't mess up a race on purpose, is all I want.

Lazytown
29-05-2015, 09:14
What should improve the game, and keep the "sim" aspect to it, would be the implementation on personalized AI drivers. I've written about it here - Career Mode AI driver speed (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?24287-Career-Mode-AI-driver-speed). Especially in the single make series, I would enjoy having some drivers performing better than others. Some teams, even. It's not fun when everybody ends up on the same points and you win the series by finishing fifth in every race. Different drivers on the podium every weekend. That is my main issue.

I agree with this 100% - there are major issues with driver and TEAM performance consistency. We have all won championships without a single win which is obviously daft.

However I think that the ability to customize the tier championship structure is the MOST pressing issue for CAREER and is the single feature that would add the most depth, longevity and RE-PLAYABILITY to the game.

If driver and team inconsistency is fixed but I am still driving the same tier championships with no choice over tracks and cars, rounds, rules etc... then probably I am already bored with CAREER and possibly rest of the game too. Some racers want BTCC, some want a proper WEC, others have cried out for vintage and legacy championships, some people want M1 or focus instead of clio, I want a mammoth 20 round GT3 championship, the list is obviously unending because it is people's own personal preferences for the championships they want to run as part of their career. The ultimate career mode next step is to allow people race the championships they want. That gives limitless depth (or depth limited only by tracks and cars available if I cut the hyperbole down).

After customizable career tier championships the next biggest issue definitely is driver and team consistency. Those two things together equals damn amazing career mode.

dustyjo
29-05-2015, 09:48
I have a lot of ideas for a potential career mode for pCARS 2 when it happens. Imagine a vastly expanded version of the career mode in Nascar Thunder 2004. Imagine starting as some random schmuck who bought an old go-kart from someone, and becoming a self-built racing legend. Building your team from the ground up, and being able to hire AI drivers or online friends to race along side you in career. "Upgrades" aren't bought, they're researched by your engineers, and always end up slightly different. Your team could span multiple series or disciplines, a la Team Penske or Red Bull. You could even enter your team into online series.
The Owner-Driver career would always start from the bottom, but if you start a standard Driver career, you would have the option to save up some money and start your own team whenever you had enough. Obviously the later series should cost more money to start a team in.

That's my dream anyway. I don't know if it's actually feasible.

mkstatto
29-05-2015, 12:03
I'd say its about as involving as the career mode is in Fifa, its mearly a construct to go racing(play a football match). Their needs to be more imersement. I suggested in other threads on this theme, that the devs need to look at the first Race Driver game as becon of what good racing career modes are like.

doyley101
29-05-2015, 17:01
I'd say its about as involving as the career mode is in Fifa, its mearly a construct to go racing(play a football match). Their needs to be more imersement. I suggested in other threads on this theme, that the devs need to look at the first Race Driver game as becon of what good racing career modes are like.

Have you played a recent FIFA?! Their career modes are incredibly immersive; you go through interviews, performance reviews, preseason, transfers, your players improve, peak, and then drop off in quality, young players then come through from the academy to replace them. You can even start of managing in league 2 and get job offers to work your way up to the premier league. Its vastly superior to PCARS IMO.

thinking about it, you could apply every single one of those things mentioned to the PCARS career mode and it would improve it. I know SMS isn't as big as EA, but these are the features and systems that can really make something feel "alive", rather than just a series of pre defined races for an empty shell of a team.