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mx5fornow
13-05-2015, 15:31
Am i the only one having a hard time feeling when the wheels lock up under heavy breaking? Is there a setting i am missing to get feedback into the wheel so i dont have to just listen for the sound?

leftturney
13-05-2015, 15:42
I've got my feedback mostly sorted but this is the one thing I am still missing.. Cannot feel anything on the brakes. I've went as far to pull up the telemetry, get a car up to around 150 on Road America and just slam on the brakes. Telemetry just shows a straight line when the tires are locked. You can feel a quick nudge when they unlock and you can see that in telemetry.. But, I would have to think that because telemetry is just showing a straight line probably means that at this point we are not overlooking any settings, it probably just is not there.

mx5fornow
13-05-2015, 16:30
I've got my feedback mostly sorted but this is the one thing I am still missing.. Cannot feel anything on the brakes. I've went as far to pull up the telemetry, get a car up to around 150 on Road America and just slam on the brakes. Telemetry just shows a straight line when the tires are locked. You can feel a quick nudge when they unlock and you can see that in telemetry.. But, I would have to think that because telemetry is just showing a straight line probably means that at this point we are not overlooking any settings, it probably just is not there.

Ugh thats what i was afraid of

Raven403
13-05-2015, 17:21
There are many many issues with FFB on the TX on Xbox1 right now. There are alot of threads on it. So no you are not the only one by a long shot.

Rockefelluh
13-05-2015, 17:57
You are not alone. I mash on the brakes but don't notice anything.

Benja190782
13-05-2015, 18:22
You are not alone. I mash on the brakes but don't notice anything.

Me too! I'm feeling some kerbs tho. The small white ones on Imola feels great, but not the wide red/white ones!

The brakes don't activate any FFB at all tho.

Mad Al
13-05-2015, 18:37
Project CARS doesn't have canned effects, so if the kerb is just painted, you will feel nothing, it is highly serrated you will definitely feel it (point to note AC is the same if you remove it's canned effects.. why they added those I have no idea!)

If you lock the fronts under braking you should either feel a pull to one side (if you only lock one side) or the steering should go light... which oddly enough is what happens in a real car (except with ABS where you will get that awful shuddering!)

And yes probably a little more aural feedback on tyres wouldn't go amiss on lock ups

HEF51
13-05-2015, 18:45
Project CARS doesn't have canned effects, so if the kerb is just painted, you will feel nothing, it is highly serrated you will definitely feel it (point to note AC is the same if you remove it's canned effects.. why they added those I have no idea!)

If you lock the fronts under braking you should either feel a pull to one side (if you only lock one side) or the steering should go light... which oddly enough is what happens in a real car (except with ABS where you will get that awful shuddering!)

And yes probably a little more aural feedback on tyres wouldn't go amiss on lock ups

Yes maybe on PC but on X1 the FFB and rumble of the wheel is no where near where it should be. The PC and X1 versions are not 1:1.

Benja190782
13-05-2015, 19:06
Project CARS doesn't have canned effects, so if the kerb is just painted, you will feel nothing, it is highly serrated you will definitely feel it (point to note AC is the same if you remove it's canned effects.. why they added those I have no idea!)

If you lock the fronts under braking you should either feel a pull to one side (if you only lock one side) or the steering should go light... which oddly enough is what happens in a real car (except with ABS where you will get that awful shuddering!)

And yes probably a little more aural feedback on tyres wouldn't go amiss on lock ups

Makes sence! I can honestly say I feel the pull to one side under heavy braking.

mx5fornow
13-05-2015, 19:55
Yes maybe on PC but on X1 the FFB and rumble of the wheel is no where near where it should be. The PC and X1 versions are not 1:1.

Agreed i have not felt the pull or lightness on xbox one

Mad Al
13-05-2015, 20:17
Yes maybe on PC but on X1 the FFB and rumble of the wheel is no where near where it should be. The PC and X1 versions are not 1:1.

Irrespective of any issues that appear with the TX wheel on the One, it doesn't change the fact that some people will have certain expectations of FFB based on games that contain a lot of canned effects... those canned effects are not in Project CARS, so expectations of what you feel under braking and from kerbs needs to be based on that information, not on experiences from other games.

Other than reiterating what you have probably already read, all I can suggest if you are not getting enough feedback, is to try adding a little feedback deadzone removal range in the controller FFB calibration (I've seen no specific info from anyone running the TX on a PC to say that it's needed... go up in 0.02 increments, if you get oscillations on the straights, reduce again) that will remove any dead area in the feedback at low levels (which improves things like kerb feedback and road bumps). then make sure you have FFB at 100% in the controller settings and add Tyre force (in the controller FFB calibration) till you are close to clipping in the FFB meter in the telemetry screen.
If you are still not getting enough weight in the feedback when close to or at clipping then there is definitely something amiss as that should be sending as much signal as the wheel will allow (in fact you could just try 200 tyre force and make sure the FFB is clipping to see just how strong or week it feels)

Benja190782
13-05-2015, 20:24
^^
I got the TX wheel - but what is FFB clipping??

Edit: does any PC users feel the red/white kerbs at Imola?? Are they flat or are we suppose to feel them?

HEF51
13-05-2015, 20:35
Irrespective of any issues that appear with the TX wheel on the One, it doesn't change the fact that some people will have certain expectations of FFB based on games that contain a lot of canned effects... those canned effects are not in Project CARS, so expectations of what you feel under braking and from kerbs needs to be based on that information, not on experiences from other games.

Other than reiterating what you have probably already read, all I can suggest if you are not getting enough feedback, is to try adding a little feedback deadzone removal range in the controller FFB calibration (I've seen no specific info from anyone running the TX on a PC to say that it's needed... go up in 0.02 increments, if you get oscillations on the straights, reduce again) that will remove any dead area in the feedback at low levels (which improves things like kerb feedback and road bumps). then make sure you have FFB at 100% in the controller settings and add Tyre force (in the controller FFB calibration) till you are close to clipping in the FFB meter in the telemetry screen.
If you are still not getting enough weight in the feedback when close to or at clipping then there is definitely something amiss as that should be sending as much signal as the wheel will allow (in fact you could just try 200 tyre force and make sure the FFB is clipping to see just how strong or week it feels)

I understand the first part. But it really doesn't hold much water if I can barely feel ANY of those effects.

Second part is what really gets me. Yes there are endless amounts of tweaking your FFB in this game, I get that. But if I can plug my TX into a PC and calibrate it like normal and get an awesome experience without changing any default settings. And then go the X1 do that same thing and it just feels dead, there is no life in the wheel. There is something wrong!

I shouldnt have to change any settings to get what I should be feeling in the game on X1 compared to PC.

Mad Al
13-05-2015, 20:51
^^
I got the TX wheel - but what is FFB clipping??

Edit: does any PC users feel the red/white kerbs at Imola?? Are they flat or are we suppose to feel them?

FFB clipping is where you have put out the largest signal possible already so attempting to send more just ends up sending the same, so the signal has a flat line

Pull up the telemetry screen (cycle the HUD to get to it) and there is a box on the top left with a yellow line - the yellow line (which lives in the top half of the box) shows the amount of FFB signal, if it hits the top and flat lines (or the bottom, which is actually the middle of the box), the FFB has clipped
(that's an assumption that the line is yellow, it might be grey and if it is, it will be in the lower half of the box!)

Mad Al
13-05-2015, 20:58
I understand the first part. But it really doesn't hold much water if I can barely feel ANY of those effects.

Second part is what really gets me. Yes there are endless amounts of tweaking your FFB in this game, I get that. But if I can plug my TX into a PC and calibrate it like normal and get an awesome experience without changing any default settings. And then go the X1 do that same thing and it just feels dead, there is no life in the wheel. There is something wrong!

I shouldnt have to change any settings to get what I should be feeling in the game on X1 compared to PC.

I agree entirely, the issue is, where is the issue!.. have you used the wheel on the One on other games? are all TX users having the same problem (a quick scan of the other threads would appear to say no, but then FFB is also somewhat subjective and what one person thinks is great another may find less than perfect)
The fact is, the fundamentals of the FFB should be exactly same on all platforms... if the signal shows fully clipped on the FFB meter in the telemetry and it still feel limp in the wheel itself that might at least point to the area where the problem is (i.e. not a issue in the internal FFB code, but something in the MS API that takes in a value to pass to the driver and wheel..)

HEF51
13-05-2015, 21:07
are all TX users having the same problem (a quick scan of the other threads would appear to say no,

Only the two biggest threads currently on the first page...

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22444-Hardly-any-FFB-with-Thrustmaster-TX-Read-This-!

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?24131-Thrustmaster-TX-Default-FFB-is-Non-Existent-Compared-to-PC-PS4

And to answer your question. Yes using my wheel on the PC with iRacing and R3E the amount of FFB is amazing. I assume so on pCARS as well from word of mouth. Yes I can get the FFB to clip only after putting Tire Force and Master Scale through the roof( and all that does is just add more noise and power, no real effects). So yes the power is there but something is just not translating from PC to X1.

FederalHercules
13-05-2015, 21:15
are all TX users having the same problem (a quick scan of the other threads would appear to say no, but then FFB is also somewhat subjective and what one person thinks is great another may find less than perfect)


Speaking of subjective, my "quick scan" of these threads shows the exact opposite.

From my perspective, the disappointment (and I should emphasize, its been a HUGE disappointment) is that so far my time with the game has been adjusting all these FFB settings trying to get it so that I can feel what the car is doing. Thus I haven't been able to actually play the game. Explore the cars, tracks, start a career, hop online with friends from my racing league and get some fun wheel to wheel racing action. I have wasted at least 12 hours just trying to configure the game.

As always, I continue to look forward to confirmation or feedback from SMS.

Hawker Fury
13-05-2015, 21:47
This is ridiculous. Virtually everyone in these threads has said to some degree yes we have an amount of force feedback, but it only comes after greatly increasing the stock settings after calibration. There are many things I get feedback from in the game through my wheel but, and this is the important bit, there is zero information delivered about the grip level of the tyres. You can be locked up completely on Tarmac or grass or both and nothing. The wheel as you've just said should go light or pull in one direction upon braking. You can be on full lock going straight through a corner at 90mph and still no change in the feedback level. This categorically doesn't provide the correct feedback and it need seriously looking at!!!
How can there only be one mod on this forum with a xb1 and a TX wheel, or is that not true. SMS must have had a set up to access tor testing surely?? You'd only need 10 mins with the game to know its not right......

Mad Al
13-05-2015, 22:06
Only the two biggest threads currently on the first page...

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22444-Hardly-any-FFB-with-Thrustmaster-TX-Read-This-!

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?24131-Thrustmaster-TX-Default-FFB-is-Non-Existent-Compared-to-PC-PS4

And to answer your question. Yes using my wheel on the PC with iRacing and R3E the amount of FFB is amazing. I assume so on pCARS as well from word of mouth. Yes I can get the FFB to clip only after putting Tire Force and Master Scale through the roof( and all that does is just add more noise and power, no real effects). So yes the power is there but something is just not translating from PC to X1.

So the FFB meter is showing nothing much happening with the default settings ?

Hawker Fury
13-05-2015, 22:34
So the FFB meter is showing nothing much happening with the default settings ?

it rises up, or down dependant on which way you turn. Then levels off as the steering input stays at the same lock. If you lock the front brakes, no change. If you audibly have no grip and are visually travelling straight on in the corner there is no change. Surely it should dip back down?
The only thing which slightly effects the line are any bumps encountered along your trajectory, be that curbs or road surface bumps. They put a slight and short wave in the line
Hope this helps

Ps that was tested with all settings returned to "out of the box" and with setting I have found at lest give some weight to the wheel

MrDrummonkey
13-05-2015, 23:23
I agree entirely, the issue is, where is the issue!.. have you used the wheel on the One on other games? are all TX users having the same problem (a quick scan of the other threads would appear to say no, but then FFB is also somewhat subjective and what one person thinks is great another may find less than perfect)
The fact is, the fundamentals of the FFB should be exactly same on all platforms... if the signal shows fully clipped on the FFB meter in the telemetry and it still feel limp in the wheel itself that might at least point to the area where the problem is (i.e. not a issue in the internal FFB code, but something in the MS API that takes in a value to pass to the driver and wheel..)

Do you not have the ability to test PC vs X1 games? It's obvious on these forums that the behavior is COMPLETELY different. Just test a new, default PC version, then the xbox version. See for yourself.

mx5fornow
13-05-2015, 23:24
it rises up, or down dependant on which way you turn. Then levels off as the steering input stays at the same lock. If you lock the front brakes, no change. If you audibly have no grip and are visually travelling straight on in the corner there is no change. Surely it should dip back down?
The only thing which slightly effects the line are any bumps encountered along your trajectory, be that curbs or road surface bumps. They put a slight and short wave in the line
Hope this helps

Ps that was tested with all settings returned to "out of the box" and with setting I have found at lest give some weight to the wheel

i agree this is not a problem with the lack of a canned effect. The wheel seems to be missing something on xbox 1

Ch1ps N Queso
13-05-2015, 23:27
Irrespective of any issues that appear with the TX wheel on the One, it doesn't change the fact that some people will have certain expectations of FFB based on games that contain a lot of canned effects... those canned effects are not in Project CARS, so expectations of what you feel under braking and from kerbs needs to be based on that information, not on experiences from other games.

Other than reiterating what you have probably already read, all I can suggest if you are not getting enough feedback, is to try adding a little feedback deadzone removal range in the controller FFB calibration (I've seen no specific info from anyone running the TX on a PC to say that it's needed... go up in 0.02 increments, if you get oscillations on the straights, reduce again) that will remove any dead area in the feedback at low levels (which improves things like kerb feedback and road bumps). then make sure you have FFB at 100% in the controller settings and add Tyre force (in the controller FFB calibration) till you are close to clipping in the FFB meter in the telemetry screen.
If you are still not getting enough weight in the feedback when close to or at clipping then there is definitely something amiss as that should be sending as much signal as the wheel will allow (in fact you could just try 200 tyre force and make sure the FFB is clipping to see just how strong or week it feels)

Hey!!! Good day sir.

I think the setting "Deadzone Removal Range" is going to help out us X1 users that are experiencing little to no FFB without heavily adjusting the settings. I ended up moving mine to .50 (yes, had to move it that much to make a difference) and it's helping quite a bit. Still not 1:1 with my PC feel but it's a huge help without adjusting 20 other settings.

The only other setting I'm changing at the moment is Master Scale of each car (somewhere above 70). I'll also look into moving Tire Scale up a little.

Thanks again. I'll go post my findings in the other FFB threads to help the guys out.

Scrufy
14-05-2015, 02:00
same here... PC version my TX is great. XB1 works fine with "other" games. on Pcars it has next to no feel.

i spent most of last week tweaking video settings for 4k on the PC. im not dealing with another marathon session of settings changes for XB1. ill just hope a patch comes out but until then, i'll concentrate on the PC and my nephew can play the XB1 version with his controller... oh wait.., lol

why is it so difficult to just have a soft medium firm for all FFB then if someone wants to tweak it, have an advanced tab with the options there now.
nobody understands 3/4 of the stuff in those settings anyway.
if the audience SMS wants is strictly people that want to tweak to that level then this game wont have near the following it could. Has to be user friendly to an extent.