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View Full Version : How to counter car spinning in slow turns, e.g. Radical SR8-RX



Heimkineast
14-05-2015, 14:23
Hi all,

I have started a career (LMP2) and drive one of my favourite race cars the SR8-RX. It turns out that in Project Cars the car has a high tendency to spin out in slow turns. Pretty much without warning I have to add - not once I managed to counter the spin. I use the "Fy+Sop" FFB tweak file for my Thrustmaster TX 458 wheel by the way. I am currently driving at Imola GP and I don't manage to get a single clear race. Assists are set to real (or off) and I applied maximum downforce.

I am also finding the tire temperature simulation not realistic. They go from green to blue even while pushing the car hard with max downforce and and assists off.

Anyone else having experiences the same problems or having tips for the car setup to counter these?

JB5
14-05-2015, 18:54
Which part of the corner? Entry, apex or exit? Also depending how slow the corner is your downforce is doing very little, its the mechanical grip you need for slower corners but this is generalising.

tux1234
14-05-2015, 19:05
Did you touch a curb? In some cars if you hit the curb at a slow speed it can spin the car.

Heimkineast
14-05-2015, 21:08
@ JB5
I know that downforce doesn't help in slow corners. But what to do to improve grip in slow corners - any suggestions? Oh and I think it occurs in the apex.

@ tux
I wish I had because this was obviously a driving mistake. But I always try to drive a wide curve and don't apply any throttle. Turning all assists on helps a bit but even then it occurs.

Everybody interested in checking this out try the Sr8-Rx at Imola GP course.

Umer Ahmad
14-05-2015, 21:18
If you are spinning before apex, increase (move right) DECEL diff lock

If you are spinning after apex, decrease (move left) ACCEL diff lock

Heimkineast
15-05-2015, 00:04
Before and after apex means what exacty in terms of driving?

Roger Prynne
15-05-2015, 00:12
The point a car should touch on the inside of a turn when following a proper line

202557

Umer Ahmad
15-05-2015, 01:31
Before apex means off-throttle and usually braking

After apex means on-throttle while exiting

Heimkineast
15-05-2015, 02:47
Then it's clearly before apex. The spins out so moment I turn it, without warning and no chance to countersteer.

Bailey
15-05-2015, 03:39
Then it's clearly before apex. The spins out so moment I turn it, without warning and no chance to countersteer.

Sound like a brake bias issue. I'll go and test it out now.
~Bailey

JeyD02
15-05-2015, 03:53
Noo I think if it's mostly on slow corner it must be the anti roll bar. If the breaking stability is okay and as you are approaching to the turn if you spinning out from rear then try decreasing the anti roll bar or sway from the rear, make it a little softer. This is assuming you are properly applying throttle control upon exiting the turn.

Okay, actually if it's as soon as you let of break and begin turning, then check your break bias and also your decel lock from diferencial. Try increasing a bit. The anti roll bars are mostly in hairpin or slow corner and one you getting into apex.

Umer Ahmad
15-05-2015, 03:53
Yeah move forward brake bias a little and also reduce brake pressure a lot

Bailey
15-05-2015, 03:54
Then it's clearly before apex. The spins out so moment I turn it, without warning and no chance to countersteer.

I just took it for a spin. I opened up with a lap on 1:41, just for reference.
I felt that the "problem" was lift oversteer. There are a couple ways to "fix" this. The quickest way would be to reduce the number of things you are doing at once while turning, or getting ready to turn, as this car feels like there is a bit more suspension travel than the Caterham 300. The order of things that kept me on track were,
Brake
Turn
release brake
keep turning
accelerate

The order of things that got me in trouble was
Brake
release brake & turn
spin
That's my experience. There are setup changes you cam make to the car too.
~Bailey
EDIT: Yea, these tires get cold fast with the default set.

bigmarky
15-05-2015, 04:08
what is a good ride height setup for say laguna seca?

JeyD02
15-05-2015, 04:12
what is a good ride height setup for say laguna seca?

It depends on cars, weight, stiffer or softer but the lower possible the better taking in consideration all bump stop, anti roll bar weigh bias is setup. Make sure you get a good balanced setup throughout your chasis then the crease the ride height as much as possible. Don't let bottom it out.

bigmarky
15-05-2015, 04:34
i need less understeer i'm losing too much corner speed

JeyD02
15-05-2015, 04:54
i need less understeer i'm losing too much corner speed

like a said decrease ride high as i have said with all other elements into account. then you can soften the front suspension a lil more and most of the time you want to have softer front than rear. this way you can generate a good aerodynamic and less understeer. also you can increase the wing for front if you still getting under steer. there are many things you can do for understeering.

willfred_TandZproduction
15-05-2015, 08:26
Then it's clearly before apex. The spins out so moment I turn it, without warning and no chance to countersteer.

have look at your brake bias. the standard setup runs a rear bias if i remember correctly so put more braking to the front.
i would recommend you start at 60 front 40 rear then decrease the front bias till it starts to rotate on you. at that point increase slightly to stop the rotation. what you want is as much rear bias as possible as
1) It helps with tyre wear
2) It keeps the car balance more even as weight transfer is reduced.

It might also be worth considering stiffening slightly, the front damper slow bump settings and front spring rates to try to reduce the rate of weight transfer on to the front axle. But give brake bias a go first.


i need less understeer i'm losing too much corner speed
where does your understeer occur? corner entry, apex or exit?

Heimkineast
15-05-2015, 12:59
Thanks for all the advice!

So as far as I understand I need to experient with:

1. anti roll bar -> softer to keep rear tires on track?
2. rear breaking bias -> as much as possible to help keep tires warm?
3. differential decel lock -> increase to help stability?

Breaking pressure should not be the problem as I already stepped of the break and roll through the curve, right?


I just took it for a spin. I opened up with a lap on 1:41, just for reference.
I felt that the "problem" was lift oversteer. There are a couple ways to "fix" this. The quickest way would be to reduce the number of things you are doing at once while turning, or getting ready to turn, as this car feels like there is a bit more suspension travel than the Caterham 300. The order of things that kept me on track were,
Brake
Turn
release brake
keep turning
accelerate

The order of things that got me in trouble was
Brake
release brake & turn
spin
That's my experience. There are setup changes you cam make to the car too.
~Bailey
EDIT: Yea, these tires get cold fast with the default set.

Did you race at Imola GP? "lift oversteer" might actually be the problem here since I mainly have experiences this in turns with a slight elevation, e.g. Imola Gp, Laguna Seca. Also I did exaxtly what you did: brake - release brake - turn - spin.

JeyD02
15-05-2015, 14:26
Thanks for all the advice!

So as far as I understand I need to experient with:

1. anti roll bar -> softer to keep rear tires on track?
2. rear breaking bias -> as much as possible to help keep tires warm?
3. differential decel lock -> increase to help stability?



Kinda . Here :

1. Front anti roll bar; softer = gives more traction and grip more weight is being transferred / stiffer = more accurate and precise steering, limits the weight being transferred to front.
1b. Rear anti roll bar: softer = gives more weight to front therefore, understeering / stiffer limits the weight being transfer to front so less understeering but possible oversteer.

The ARB is mostly taking effects on slow corners 1-2 gears. You want to o fine a good balanced of what you like start with rear ARB first.

2. helps with weight distribution avoiding both front and rear of car to loose traction or grip. Normally in corner when breaking the weight goes to front and considering the engine placement you want to have a balanced weight distribution where both front and rear ends of the car stick to the track without lifting too much traction makings spin or lock up.

3. Decel lock ; more = gives you a more stable breaking more when are on corner and in lift off throttle turns it'll understeer (you can feel that twitchy movement from the side of the car to the other, that's the lock Decel locks moving.)
; less = gives you smoother turns and less understeer(twitchy maybe gone) but at the same times too might upset the car making it unstable at break and ad soon as you lift the throttle it'll oversteer or spin.

So again find your balanced. Have the least Decel you can have without harming hard breaking.

tux1234
15-05-2015, 21:08
Also be sure not try and change down too many gears at once, this will lock the rear axle and it will be like pulling the handbrake. Also changing from 3rd to 2nd when turning into a corner will spin the car.

JeyD02
15-05-2015, 22:57
Also be sure not try and change down too many gears at once, this will lock the rear axle and it will be like pulling the handbrake. Also changing from 3rd to 2nd when turning into a corner will spin the car.

Not only if you meet the Rev match criteria.

MULTIVITZ
16-05-2015, 14:16
Hi all,

I have started a career (LMP2) and drive one of my favourite race cars the SR8-RX. It turns out that in Project Cars the car has a high tendency to spin out in slow turns. Pretty much without warning I have to add - not once I managed to counter the spin. I use the "Fy+Sop" FFB tweak file for my Thrustmaster TX 458 wheel by the way. I am currently driving at Imola GP and I don't manage to get a single clear race. Assists are set to real (or off) and I applied maximum downforce.

I am also finding the tire temperature simulation not realistic. They go from green to blue even while pushing the car hard with max downforce and and assists off.

Anyone else having experiences the same problems or having tips for the car setup to counter these?

Theres your problem cold tyres. The car has NO weight so let the tyres down and increase the camber to work some heat into the tyres until they are green. Tune on a more forgiving track to warm the tyres then adjust the dampers to soften or control bounce in cornering transitions. Get the car drivable in an agressive manor then hit the track you had trouble with, watching for heavy bottoming at crucial points of the track. Sounds like the rear tyres are too bouncy, once the hard front tyres flick the car in, the weighty back end squashes the rear tyres then they bounce back and fail to bite as they are cold. A rear wing aint going to help at lower speeds and at medium speeds adds rear load causing an artifical increase springrate effect which can make the car feel strange and unpredictable. Theres many ways around your problem, they all have merit. Good luck.

MULTIVITZ
16-05-2015, 14:34
The chassis is too responsive, lowering the tyre pressures will help. Reducing rear everything or something may help, but if the front end pulls in too sharp to a corner it might be too heavy front road springs or too soft ARB, too higher front slow rebound on a light car. I found increasing the steering ratio helps loads to reduce spin outs. Drive the super karts after some tyre pressure reduction then you'll be glad you took time getting your choosen controller settings optimal. I haven't drove the Rad yet, but they're all the same!

Tommy J
04-12-2016, 22:45
With a steering wheel I find that the car is twitch and tail happy. If you approach a corner too fast and have to steer hard the back will always spin out. I have played with increasing mechanical grip by lowering the tire pressures. Further lowering those at the back. I've only had a quick play and it has made me feel much more confident as I enter a corner... Fronts 1.28 bar Rears 1.24 bar. This is only a quick tweak perhaps not the ideal setting but it seems to help

hkraft300
05-12-2016, 03:16
Drive it like a Porsche.
Lots of rear weight bias.
A bit left-field, but I'd recommend stiffer rear sway bar and springs to keep the weight in check. I also think the default springs are overall far too soft for this car (have you noticed the body roll?).

VonSchwerin
27-12-2016, 17:01
Keep it low and 10mm higher rear, brakebias approx 58 front. You have to be very smooth OFF the brakes with the Radical, try to trailbrake more, and ON the throttle before you let go of the brakes.
As a start try at least 4 on the rear wing. Its like driving on ice if the tyres are not warm, lower the pressure so you get at least 95 celcius in all tyres.
Hope that helps!

tommy3010
22-02-2017, 13:02
Hi all,

I have started a career (LMP2) and drive one of my favourite race cars the SR8-RX. It turns out that in Project Cars the car has a high tendency to spin out in slow turns. Pretty much without warning I have to add - not once I managed to counter the spin. I use the "Fy+Sop" FFB tweak file for my Thrustmaster TX 458 wheel by the way. I am currently driving at Imola GP and I don't manage to get a single clear race. Assists are set to real (or off) and I applied maximum downforce.

I am also finding the tire temperature simulation not realistic. They go from green to blue even while pushing the car hard with max downforce and and assists off.

Anyone else having experiences the same problems or having tips for the car setup to counter these?

i new to pc p cars and i see you say I use the "Fy+Sop" FFB tweak file for my tx how is this done

Roger Prynne
22-02-2017, 14:17
^ Check out this thread..... http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files

Ptyochromis
27-02-2017, 20:16
Sounds like you are locking the rear wheels. Try turning in with 0 throttle and brake and see if it still happens. If it spins when you are trying to trail brake in then its a brake bias/technique issue. Move the bias forward and or lower the pressure.