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mister dog
17-05-2015, 00:54
Exposure rate is set at default and conditions are clear @ 2AM (which should be pitch black). On a lot of circuits the night sky is too bright for those circumstances, whilst on others it is correct. On the faulty ones it seems like dawn is about to break (more like 5AM):

Too bright

The ring:

http://i58.tinypic.com/awz31j.jpg

Le Mans:

http://i58.tinypic.com/2w4ick9.jpg

Some circuits are correct, for example Laguna Seca has a night sky at 2AM that looks believable:

http://i57.tinypic.com/292ky6q.jpg

Apologies for the average image quality, taken with a smartphone, but i hope you get the point. All pictures were taken with the same car; the BMW Z4.

Skullblits69
17-05-2015, 02:04
Do you pc guys have a bright ness setting?
Have youtryed it with cloud cover?

Qxs
17-05-2015, 06:56
The date, time, and physical location (latitude) will affect the night sky.
For example, compare midnight at Nordschleife with a mid June date (summer) and mid January date (winter).
It's pretty :cool:
That being said, there is a compensation setting in the graphics controls which can make everything a bit darker (or lighter).
Tip: just put sunglasses on if it's not dark enough! (seriously, I do this)

EDIT: turns out the settings for an online session are broken... whoops...

Matthijs035
17-05-2015, 09:02
The date, time, and physical location (latitude) will affect the night sky.
For example, compare midnight at Nordschleife with a mid June date (summer) and mid January date (winter).


Thats right, but for example on Le Mans, its not right, see my topic about le mans, with 2 video's comparing in game with reality :

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?24996-Nighttime-to-bright-compared-to-reality

mister dog
17-05-2015, 10:24
The date, time, and physical location (latitude) will affect the night sky.
Yes but the night sky will remain dark regardless. 2AM doesn't look like dawn on no circuit on earth, and in no given season.



That being said, there is a compensation setting in the graphics controls which can make everything a bit darker (or lighter).
I'm not going to make the whole game too dark through the exposure rate, just so night looks like night. This should be corrected especially since people will try to do 24hr races on Le Mans and 'the Shleiffe', and those two circuits are affected.



Tip: just put sunglasses on if it's not dark enough! (seriously, I do this)
http://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/25461-13b-nb-miata-joker-not-sure-if-serious-jpg?dateline=1317068660

Bloyski
17-05-2015, 11:06
The date, time, and physical location (latitude) will affect the night sky.
For example, compare midnight at Nordschleife with a mid June date (summer) and mid January date (winter).
It's pretty :cool:
That being said, there is a compensation setting in the graphics controls which can make everything a bit darker (or lighter).
Tip: just put sunglasses on if it's not dark enough! (seriously, I do this)

It doesn't matter what issue you find with this game, all the response you get is that it's not the games fault and it must be something your doing. Why wear shades when it's supposed to be a sim yet can't make it dark at night?
I was so hyped for this game with all the praise it was getting and how it was going to be the best racing game for console but it has done nothing but disappoint. Got my refund from Microsoft and will buy this game in 6 months when it's cheaper
and has been updated to work properly.

F1Aussie
17-05-2015, 11:50
its not related to a full moon is it? Nights are a light brighter when there is a full moon, no idea if this is modelled in PC though?

flymar
17-05-2015, 11:52
The ring:

I just took the shot. 17.05.2015. 2:00. It's not THAT bright(?)
203097

mister dog
17-05-2015, 11:55
its not related to a full moon is it? Nights are a light brighter when there is a full moon, no idea if this is modelled in PC though?
For that kind of brightness one would have had a full moon the size of Jupiter :) There was no noticeable moon in the sky when i took these pics.


I just took the shot. 17.05.2015. 2:00. It's not THAT bright(?)
203097
It is. You are not supposed to see far away landscapes and tree outlines at 2AM, it should be pitch black.

andrewz
17-05-2015, 12:25
Even if you were right, I'm affraid that - based on my previous similar reports - something like that is out of distinguishing abilities of SMS. There are tons of much more serious problems, so... maybe in pCARS2 I guess. :grumpy:

Matthijs035
17-05-2015, 12:35
@ Le mans Circuit, just after the Dunlop Tire Bridge :

15 june 2014 - Clear weather

01:00 hour

http://i61.tinypic.com/1z1bnno.jpg

02:00 hour

http://i62.tinypic.com/250v03d.jpg

03:00 hour

http://i60.tinypic.com/212zddx.jpg

04:00 hour

http://i62.tinypic.com/65cra0.jpg

05:00 hour

http://i61.tinypic.com/be96kz.jpg

06:00 hour

http://i60.tinypic.com/wlegjl.jpg

Compare it with this video, taken at le mans 15 june 2014, onboard Audi #1 - 03:45 - 11:25 hour :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JV0qSWRYrs

mister dog
17-05-2015, 12:37
Even if you were right, I'm affraid that - based on my previous similar reports - something like that is out of distinguishing abilities of SMS. There are tons of much more serious problems, so... maybe in pCARS2 I guess. :grumpy:
I understand there are more urgent issues at the moment with all the bugs and features that need to be added, but i would appreciate if they would correct this after all that is sorted out. I'm quite a graphics whore and these things break my immersion. It' not like they have to remodel from the ground up as for example Laguna Seca (and probably some other circuits), already have a correct night sky. So it's just a matter of copy pasting that sky over to the erroneous ones and all will be fine.

flymar
17-05-2015, 12:42
It's not that simple. With one change you can mess lots of other things. I don't say it's impossible, but I agree it's not priority in the moment. With the bugs squashed we can get back to the night sky.

MaXKiLLz
17-05-2015, 13:47
If we want properly dark skies at Le Mans, we can always play it on the Sega Dreamcast.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PteVFYtukAQ

cloakdeath
17-05-2015, 15:15
Wow, I'm really surprised there are complaints about being able to see a starry sky AND the track. I thought it was obviously artistic license and quite fun. It was one of the things I thought was really cool after I saw it for the first time. Of course we know that the human eye can't really see the starry sky and car headlights at the same time..

blowfishrulez
17-05-2015, 15:24
I posted this issue yesterday at WMD. I have the suspicion the selected time is not correctly handed over to the session. It also jumps back to the default setting upon return to the conditions menu.

Matthijs035
17-05-2015, 16:47
Wow, I'm really surprised there are complaints about being able to see a starry sky AND the track. I thought it was obviously artistic license and quite fun. It was one of the things I thought was really cool after I saw it for the first time. Of course we know that the human eye can't really see the starry sky and car headlights at the same time..

It's not the beautifull light/darkness transition or the stars/moon, but the moment it happens. If in real life, half June @ Le Mans, the sunrise takes place arround 06.00 hour, so till 05:15 hour it is pitch black..... in Pcars, it is not realistic to see the first sun light arround 02:00 hour in the middle of the night.. see my screenshots above....

I my example/comparison, the sunrise takes to long, en what you see in the image of 02:00 hour, in real life thats what you see arround 05:15 (see the video above)

MaXKiLLz
17-05-2015, 16:59
Bottom line is, the day-night-day transition at Le Mans is screwed up. Plain and simple.

madmax2069
18-05-2015, 03:23
Exposure rate is set at default and conditions are clear @ 2AM (which should be pitch black). On a lot of circuits the night sky is too bright for those circumstances, whilst on others it is correct. On the faulty ones it seems like dawn is about to break (more like 5AM):

Too bright

The ring:

http://i58.tinypic.com/awz31j.jpg

Le Mans:

http://i58.tinypic.com/2w4ick9.jpg

Some circuits are correct, for example Laguna Seca has a night sky at 2AM that looks believable:

http://i57.tinypic.com/292ky6q.jpg

Apologies for the average image quality, taken with a smartphone, but i hope you get the point. All pictures were taken with the same car; the BMW Z4.

Just wait till you get a car behind you, then it'll look like you have the sun in the cockpit, even in a car that doesnt have a back window (like the audi R18 TDI as a example)

RobMUFC1987
18-05-2015, 03:29
Night sky isn't a problem for me, its the fact that other cars light up the track more than me. If I don't have a car behind or in front of me, can't see where I'm going

madmax2069
18-05-2015, 03:30
Night sky isn't a problem for me, its the fact that other cars light up the track more than me. If I don't have a car behind or in front of me, can't see where I'm going

Did you turn on your headlights ?

RobMUFC1987
18-05-2015, 03:31
Of course. I always flash them to make sure they're working

Flihp
18-05-2015, 05:09
Monaco ( Azure circuit ) is another shocking one. there is some sort of glitch in the conditon menu, at times i can set real time, current date 11pm for bathurst as an example. i arrive on track with bright sunny conditions. go back to condition menu and it was something like 5 May 2015 14:00 and on selected date. has anyone tried real time weather and can confirm that it actually works?. i remember back in my flightsim days that it was reasonably accurate using real time weather and Jeppesen weather. Closest track available to me is Bathurst but i'm some 2000k's away :)

thanks
Phil

xLeper_Messiah
18-05-2015, 08:35
If we want properly dark skies at Le Mans, we can always play it on the Sega Dreamcast.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PteVFYtukAQ

Oh man, what a nostalgia rush! I played sooo many hours of that game, it really was amazing for its time. The physics were a bit meh, but it had an impressive tracklist, dynamic time of day and weather, real race lengths, pit strategy, mid-race saves...pretty sure that game combined with the horrible ergonomics of the Dreamcast controller is why I have carpal tunnel now!

MaXKiLLz
18-05-2015, 14:43
Oh man, what a nostalgia rush! I played sooo many hours of that game, it really was amazing for its time. The physics were a bit meh, but it had an impressive tracklist, dynamic time of day and weather, real race lengths, pit strategy, mid-race saves...pretty sure that game combined with the horrible ergonomics of the Dreamcast controller is why I have carpal tunnel now!

I bought the Dreamcast at the end of it's life cycle. Found one on clearance at Best Buy for $50! I bought three games, also on clearance, for $5 a piece. Daytona USA, Ferrari F355 and Le Mans. I might have to bring it all down from the attic and hook it up for some classic gaming.

LeMansIndy500
21-05-2015, 21:48
Same thing here with the Silverstone National Circuit. This was 3am in June. Far too early for a sunrise, even in the summer.

203940

BMASTER
21-05-2015, 22:13
It's not that simple. With one change you can mess lots of other things. I don't say it's impossible, but I agree it's not priority in the moment. With the bugs squashed we can get back to the night sky.

That's just wrong. It might not be as simple as just copy pasting, since this wouldn't be accurate either. But you can't screw anything just by editing the time the transition starts. If this would really be the case as you claim, SMS would have done a bad job with this.

But let me ask you, what could they mess up with just changing the transition time, according to your knowledge?

OFFTOPIC:
A lot of people complain that this game is pretty buggy and glitches all over the place. I can understand, since the game is supposed to be finished, that a lot of people are angry or disappointed.
I however don't look at pcars as a finished game, because it's not. I waited for two long years to play this game, I was a little late to buy a membership. Now I can finally play the game and it's fun^^
I like it and really look at it, as if it is still in this system before release. The money I spent on the game doesn't bother me at all, since I would have paid the same price back then, when we still could enter the program.

So, I think, a lot of people playing the game that are angry/disappointed should watch at it like I do. Maybe this viewpoint helps some people ;)

flymar
21-05-2015, 22:27
But let me ask you, what could they mess up with just changing the transition time, according to your knowledge?

It's not simple transition time. There is whole system in place. Sun, moon positions, angle of the sun above horizon linked to exposure and colour changes, all dynamic weather with it's different fog/bloom conditions. Pretty complicated puzzle to make it look believable in all conditions. Night lighting was made and revisited many times during the development. That said there could be just a typo on track GPS location. I'm sure it'll be sorted.

Beardybrave
21-05-2015, 22:33
Having walked home at 3am many a time in my youth, I can tell you the sky will easily brighten up at 3am in the middle of June.

Beardybrave
21-05-2015, 22:42
So, to add here's a sunrise chart for Silverstone, for June this year. Notice there's not just a sunrise, there's first light . First light hits significantly earlier than actual sunrise, especially in summer. Specifically, just before 3am. =)

http://www.explorebritain.info/locality-northamptonshire-silverstone-sp6644/suntimes/20156

BMASTER
21-05-2015, 22:46
It's not simple transition time. There is whole system in place. Sun, moon positions, angle of the sun above horizon linked to exposure and colour changes, all dynamic weather with it's different fog/bloom conditions. Pretty complicated puzzle to make it look believable in all conditions. Night lighting was made and revisited many times during the development. That said there could be just a typo on track GPS location. I'm sure it'll be sorted.

Well if it's done like in the Crysis Editors, yes, than there is much more to it. But this isn't really dynamic if we're honest.

Anyway, we can just assume and don't really know how this whole process works and what SMS really has to change to get the thing right. Also, I think as you already have said, there are more important things to do.
Still it is a bummer this isn't correct and this wasn't noticed before.


Having walked home at 3am many a time in my youth, I can tell you the sky will easily brighten up at 3am in the middle of June.

Depends where you live

Beardybrave
21-05-2015, 22:50
Precisely. See my additional post, re: first light.

TrevorAustin
21-05-2015, 23:02
I don't live that far from Silverstone and you cam certainly see dawn breaking driving back from birmingham at 3am in June, I'll take a picture saturday morning:)

Beardybrave
21-05-2015, 23:17
Yup, the human eye doesn't need much light to start convincing the brain it's relatively bright. And it has phenomenal dynamic range. Certainly above and beyond that of an onboard camera and even if that weren't the case, we still don't know what the onboard camera's exposure was set for. Watching the footage, the exposure is certainly not equivalent to something you would actually see yourself during the day.

mister dog
22-05-2015, 07:06
Having walked home at 3am many a time in my youth, I can tell you the sky will easily brighten up at 3am in the middle of June.


I don't live that far from Silverstone and you cam certainly see dawn breaking driving back from birmingham at 3am in June, I'll take a picture saturday morning:)

Well first light might already start breaking, but look at that screenshot the sun is already up! It will still be dark even if first light breaks at 3AM in the middle of summer. The hours are just plain wrong in PCARS, the screenshot posted above of Silverstone would be more like 5-6AM, so 2 to 3 hours too early more or less would be my estimate.

BMASTER
22-05-2015, 07:09
Just checked the transitions on Le Mans with a date in december this year. There it looks pretty accurate, maybe it's even a bit to long dark, idk.

mister dog
22-05-2015, 07:11
Just checked the transitions on Le Mans with a date in december this year. There it looks pretty accurate, maybe it's even a bit to long dark, idk.

For December you would guess it would be light around 9AM, is that correct?

BMASTER
22-05-2015, 07:35
First light starts between 7-8AM, so this might be pretty accurate.

Beardybrave
22-05-2015, 09:02
If we're talking about the same screenshot, I must be bound because I'm not seeing the sun. I'm seeing a sky brighter at the horizon than above it, indicating the source of light is below it. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong one though.

mister dog
22-05-2015, 09:36
If we're talking about the same screenshot, I must be bound because I'm not seeing the sun. I'm seeing a sky brighter at the horizon than above it, indicating the source of light is below it. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong one though.
Doesn't take away from the fact that the skies shouldn't be as bright at 3AM.
Yes, the sun is not visible let's just say it is too high behind the horizon then for the time...

GonzoFK
22-05-2015, 10:15
It doesn't matter what issue you find with this game, all the response you get is that it's not the games fault and it must be something your doing. Why wear shades when it's supposed to be a sim yet can't make it dark at night?
I was so hyped for this game with all the praise it was getting and how it was going to be the best racing game for console but it has done nothing but disappoint. Got my refund from Microsoft and will buy this game in 6 months when it's cheaper
and has been updated to work properly.


The bit in bold pretty much sums up how I feel when trying to report issues and get them resolved.

Lars Rosenquist
22-05-2015, 11:37
It is. You are not supposed to see far away landscapes and tree outlines at 2AM, it should be pitch black.That depends a bit really. When you're out in the country with no artificial light and just starlight, it's not pitch black, you can see quite clearly as your eyes adjust to the darkness.

That said, when you're in a race car and have a flashy display in front of you (and maybe headlights too), your eyes will definitely not adjust to the darkness and you should hardly be able to make out anything. (This is why in the real world, people with telescopes and a display/laptop use a red filter on the display/laptop screen to prevent their readjusting eyes each time they look on the screen. Adjusting takes about 10-15 minutes).

I also noticed your picture has higher exposure as compared to flymars (check the display), so I think in game they look identical.

mister dog
22-05-2015, 12:11
That depends a bit really. When you're out in the country with no artificial light and just starlight, it's not pitch black, you can see quite clearly as your eyes adjust to the darkness.

That said, when you're in a race car and have a flashy display in front of you (and maybe headlights too), your eyes will definitely not adjust to the darkness and you should hardly be able to make out anything. (This is why in the real world, people with telescopes and a display/laptop use a red filter on the display/laptop screen to prevent their readjusting eyes each time they look on the screen. Adjusting takes about 10-15 minutes).

I also noticed your picture has higher exposure as compared to flymars (check the display), so I think in game they look identical.

Aha if it isn't NLxAROSA :)
Now i know how you look like haha, yes your eyes adjust in the open fields and you will see a bit better. Fact of the matter is it stays quite dark and like you say, especially from the cockpit of a car at 2AM. So we all agree the surroundings look too bright and the sun comes up (behind the horizon) too quickly in summer circumstances then?

Calvin
22-05-2015, 12:28
No matter the personal opinion on here. It is too bright in the sky at 2 - 3am. Its simply wrong and needs to be fixed, end of story.

BMASTER
22-05-2015, 15:06
No matter the personal opinion on here. It is too bright in the sky at 2 - 3am. Its simply wrong and needs to be fixed, end of story.
Funny, that's a personal opinion too.

But yeah, I agree with that. It's too bright even if the transition time is correct.

TrevorAustin
22-05-2015, 15:36
Well first light might already start breaking, but look at that screenshot the sun is already up! It will still be dark even if first light breaks at 3AM in the middle of summer. The hours are just plain wrong in PCARS, the screenshot posted above of Silverstone would be more like 5-6AM, so 2 to 3 hours too early more or less would be my estimate.

I think you need a few late nights out partying, then you'll see a lot of shocking dawns. And so many hours earlier than you expect.

Haiden
22-05-2015, 15:49
It's not simple transition time. There is whole system in place. Sun, moon positions, angle of the sun above horizon linked to exposure and colour changes, all dynamic weather with it's different fog/bloom conditions. Pretty complicated puzzle to make it look believable in all conditions. Night lighting was made and revisited many times during the development. That said there could be just a typo on track GPS location. I'm sure it'll be sorted.

Don't bother explaining, Flymar. It's obvious the gamer with probably no programming experience, and who has never seen one line of SMS's code, knows best. Just change it. Trust him. It'll be fine.

And, honestly... I could care less about the time being off. Sure it'd be nice for it to be 100% accurate. But hey, that could be said about a lot of things we all deal with everyday in life. And, considering most of the other titles don't even have dynamic weather and time of day, I'm just grateful to have the transitions in the game.

mister dog
22-05-2015, 16:15
I think you need a few late nights out partying, then you'll see a lot of shocking dawns. And so many hours earlier than you expect.
Trust me at 3AM it was still dark even though i mostly stepped out of the disco at 7AM :D



And, honestly... I could care less about the time being off. Sure it'd be nice for it to be 100% accurate. But hey, that could be said about a lot of things we all deal with everyday in life. And, considering most of the other titles don't even have dynamic weather and time of day, I'm just grateful to have the transitions in the game.
Easily satisfied huh? Luckily devs don't follow those standards otherwise everything would be half assed if you don't mind me saying...

NemethR
22-05-2015, 16:32
Yes but the night sky will remain dark regardless. 2AM doesn't look like dawn on no circuit on earth, and in no given season.

You are actually wrong about that one :)

I would like to show you the Arctic Circle Raceway, in Norway, where you can do 24h races completely in daylight :)

http://trackreviewers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Arctic-Circle-Raceway.jpg

mister dog
22-05-2015, 18:06
You are actually wrong about that one :)

I would like to show you the Arctic Circle Raceway, in Norway, where you can do 24h races completely in daylight :)

Bugger :smile-new:
Nice layout, i see it wasn't designed by Tilke.

Haiden
22-05-2015, 18:12
Easily satisfied huh? Luckily devs don't follow those standards otherwise everything would be half assed if you don't mind me saying...

Not caring about the lighting transitions in a game with a million other things that could actually have an impact on the primary experience, which is racing, doesn't mean I'm easily satisfied. Narrowly focused maybe, but not easily satisfied. The reason I'm not bothered by something that isn't hindering my actual racing experience is because I have more important things to stress out about in life. You know...if you don't me saying.

mister dog
22-05-2015, 18:35
Not caring about the lighting transitions in a game with a million other things that could actually have an impact on the primary experience, which is racing, doesn't mean I'm easily satisfied. Narrowly focused maybe, but not easily satisfied. The reason I'm not bothered by something that isn't hindering my actual racing experience is because I have more important things to stress out about in life. You know...if you don't me saying.
Ah so because there are more important things to stress about in life, we shouldn't care for attention to detail anymore as long as the basics are provided for. I guess you like your coffee bland and you play on an old 4:3 telly?

Haiden
22-05-2015, 19:00
Ah so because there are more important things to stress about in life, we shouldn't care for attention to detail anymore as long as the basics are provided for. I guess you like your coffee bland and you play on an old 4:3 telly?

Ha! In your rush to sarcasm, you forgot one thing... I didn't say anything about a WE. I'm only speaking about, and for, myself. You can stress out about whatever you want. Who knows, maybe they'll drop everything and fix the transition time for you.

mister dog
22-05-2015, 19:05
Ha! In your rush to sarcasm, you forgot one thing... I didn't say anything about a WE. I'm only speaking about, and for, myself. You can stress out about whatever you want. Who knows, maybe they'll drop everything and fix the transition time for you.
How selfish. But yeah, i hope WE will have correct day/night transitions soon http://www.slipangle.it/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/ecco.gif

Beardybrave
23-05-2015, 00:14
Doesn't take away from the fact that the skies shouldn't be as bright at 3AM.
Yes, the sun is not visible let's just say it is too high behind the horizon then for the time...

I'd be willing to concede that it may seem too bright, but I'd rather put that down to an interpretation of how the eye works, not anything to do with the actual sun positioning etc. As has been said, this is a mechanical process built in to the code, and one that has been understood for millennia I might add.

The developer's decision to interpret that as an "exposure" (I'm a photographer, so I have a good understanding of how measurable light levels work differently between the eye/brain and a mechanical device. In short they vary drastically. )

From my position, it pretty accurately replicates my own experience of driving at 2am on the road to the isles, in Scotland. I disagree that dashboards and your own headlights make that much difference, that's what I was getting at re dynamic range earlier. The difference is made by streetlights and oncoming traffic, imo. If you don't have those then first light is really not pitch black. Not at all. I did that journey, and others, many times. 2am to 3am in June was common, and it was spectacular, visible, usable light. I'm not sure where you're based, but at this latitude, at this time of year, that's what it's like, away from built up areas.

All that said, I'd never be so dogmatic as to say it's the end of the story. I'm just trying to point out that it's really not cut and dried.

Edit post: really interesting http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-07/27/big-brains-up-north

So it could even be that my brain's/eye's light gathering abilities are different to yours, let's say, even on top of that. I'd say that's outrageously hard to simulate on a screen.

mister dog
23-05-2015, 00:33
Ok, just went on my balcony and albeit that i live in the south of Spain, this is how 2:30AM looks like:

http://i62.tinypic.com/wv7ri9.jpg

For sure England won't be THAT different at that time?

BMASTER
23-05-2015, 01:16
Ok, just went on my balcony and albeit that i live in the south of Spain, this is how 2:30AM looks like:

http://i62.tinypic.com/wv7ri9.jpg

For sure England won't be THAT different at that time?

All those lights on the street let the sky seem darker, dont get fooled.

mister dog
23-05-2015, 01:22
All those lights on the street let the sky seem darker, dont get fooled.
Ah yes so go to an open field outside the city and all of a sudden it would look like this:

http://i62.tinypic.com/34s45f9.jpg

Jesus, how hard can it be to convince you people that night skies don't turn into dawn... All secondary circumstances aside, night looks like night and it will not look like the above screenshot unless you are near the North Pole.

Haiden
23-05-2015, 02:20
How selfish. But yeah, i hope WE will have correct day/night transitions soon http://www.slipangle.it/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/ecco.gif

I'm not selfish. I just don't like to whine about small things. It's a very minor glitch that doesn't effect actual gameplay. If they fix it, they fix it. If they don't, I'll keep right on playing. If you were actually racing a 24 hour race in real time, then I'd consider it a bigger problem. But you're simulating it with compressed time lapse, so what does it matter if the sun comes up 5 or 10 minutes early during your simulated 60 minute night? Sorry, I just don't see the big deal.

Flihp
23-05-2015, 02:47
Ok, the night light issue at some tracks was bugging me too, so i ran a couple of experiments. here is what i have found.

Le mans for example at 2AM is dark as i would assume it should be, between September and April/ early May, 2am from mid may to August is like dawn. give it a shot yourself , it worked for me and i also had a quick look at Monaco and the same applied.
the difference between the months is night and day! pun intended :)_


Phil.

lol re read the first page of thread and it was mentioned there. lol, dont mind me :)

Arkymedes
23-05-2015, 06:48
the difference between the months is night and day!


204094

justonce68
23-05-2015, 07:53
The trees don't have leaves in Autumn/fall either but who really gives a s<#t.

GonzoFK
23-05-2015, 08:05
The trees don't have leaves in Autumn/fall either but who really gives a s<#t.

Just because you don't care doesn't mean others don't care either.

justonce68
23-05-2015, 09:16
Just because you don't care doesn't mean others don't care either.

Oh I care dude, I care about the XB1 guys with controller issues, I care about FFB settings not working correctly for some players, I care about triple screen support for PC guys, SMS care too, but how dark the night sky is, is I suspect a very low priority, as would high tide be on the Azure coast.

mister dog
23-05-2015, 09:27
So just because there are more urgent issues, we shouldn't mention other bugs we encounter during gameplay anymore... Better close down the forum then and just keep 1 or 2 threads open that are really important http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-rolleyes008.gif

legendm0de
23-05-2015, 09:45
Oh I care dude, I care about the XB1 guys with controller issues, I care about FFB settings not working correctly for some players, I care about triple screen support for PC guys, SMS care too, but how dark the night sky is, is I suspect a very low priority, as would high tide be on the Azure coast.

Don't come here writing that night sky is not important when they created a whole trailer glorifying night racing at Nords. I had the game since release in N.America and just tried night racing only to be brought to this thread an hour later disappointed. I'm sure the devs scaled back the effects of nighttime lighting to appease more gamers. Whatever the excuse, they should correct this immediately.

justonce68
23-05-2015, 09:45
I'm sorry my opinion differed with yours, the term bug and glitch seems to be used very loosely, how do you know this isn't how they designed it to be.
Not wishing to steal any of your night sky thunder on your important thread I will bow out and look at some more pressing threads.

Lars Rosenquist
23-05-2015, 10:08
So just because there are more urgent issues, we shouldn't mention other bugs we encounter during gameplay anymore... Better close down the forum then and just keep 1 or 2 threads open that are really important http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-rolleyes008.gif

Definitely not, people should report everything they find, bug, glitch, or whatever.

sVig
23-05-2015, 10:09
Quick, somebody call Patrick Moore.

Flihp
23-05-2015, 11:53
Don't come here writing that night sky is not important when they created a whole trailer glorifying night racing at Nords. I had the game since release in N.America and just tried night racing only to be brought to this thread an hour later disappointed. I'm sure the devs scaled back the effects of nighttime lighting to appease more gamers. Whatever the excuse, they should correct this immediately.

as mentioned on first page, the seasons/months make a difference to the night sky. whilst pretty sure the light months are displaying incorrect night sky, you can still play in pitch dark until the problem is looked at.

Nords 2AM June
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2YLgsa8f7w

Nords 2AM January.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgDICTBZCR0&feature=youtu.be


phil

BMASTER
23-05-2015, 13:01
Yeah, but not if you want to do the 24h Le Mans race of the career.

GenBrien
23-05-2015, 13:07
Yeah, but not if you want to do the 24h Le Mans race of the career.


maybe guys it's your TV the problem. I'm doing the career 24h Lemans right now and it's frigging pitch black out there..... Even with lights ON I can't see very far ahead of me

mister dog
23-05-2015, 13:11
maybe guys it's your TV the problem. I'm doing the career 24h Lemans right now and it's frigging pitch black out there..... Even with lights ON I can't see very far ahead of me
Wait until it turns 3AM and dawn starts to break already. By 4AM you should have the impression it's already morning when in reality it should still be night. This is the issue at hand on the Le Mans track and other tracks too, around midnight up until 2AM everything is fine, it's just that morning sets in way too quickly.

GonzoFK
23-05-2015, 20:21
maybe guys it's your TV the problem. I'm doing the career 24h Lemans right now and it's frigging pitch black out there..... Even with lights ON I can't see very far ahead of me

This sums up your reply.


It doesn't matter what issue you find with this game, all the response you get is that it's not the games fault and it must be something your doing.

Beardybrave
23-05-2015, 22:16
Ok, just went on my balcony and albeit that i live in the south of Spain, this is how 2:30AM looks like:

http://i62.tinypic.com/wv7ri9.jpg

For sure England won't be THAT different at that time?

/ignoring the fact that any photograph involves a choice, either human or programmatic, about how much light to let in.


Actually it'll make a significant difference. Even right now the difference between sunrise in the south of Spain (7:06 in Marbella) and Silverstone ( 4:58) is over two hours. By mid June that difference increases a bit too. Nautical twilight begins at around 2:30 though, which is defined as having usable light for working to, the entire rest of the night at that time of the year is defined as astronomical twilight. What this means is, that if you're somewhere dark, like , say Silverstone (or where I live, much further north), at this time of year, pitch black isn't really a thing. It might seem so in a built up area, but not out in the sticks, where race tracks generally are.

This photography article covers it all imo, and the images used to illustrate the various twilight events look close enough to project cars to me..
http://www.digital-photo-secrets.com/tip/2832/the-differences-between-civil-nautical-and-astronomical-twilight/
That said, and as I've said before, perception of light is very difficult to quantify unless you've done it at that latitude in those conditions yourself.

I know people seem set on pointing out bugs, and that's a very valuable thing to do, but in cases like this it's really not that simple. I'd argue that what's happening here is that the way cameras work is being conflated* with the way the eye works. So the expectation is based on what's been seen on tv coverage. That doesn't match what the developers have been told by the drivers, or what they've experienced themselves in researching it, because reality doesn't match that.

Reality not matching perception, is a common issue with any simulator, but especially with an issue like this.


* The other conflation common round here is one of perceiving a difference of opinion as a personal attack. It's really not. Frustrated as people might be.

mister dog
23-05-2015, 22:22
OK let's settle this once and for all. Someone that lives in England wait until it's 3AM and do what i did; take a picture (please don't cheat and wait till 5AM).

And don't start now with 'but a photo won't be representative of the human eye', it's the best we can do ;)

GonzoFK
23-05-2015, 22:25
OK let's settle this once and for all. Someone that lives in England wait until it's 3AM and do what i did; take a picture (please don't cheat and wait till 5AM).

And don't start now with 'but a photo won't be representative of the human eye', it's the best we can do ;)

I live in Scotland and will try to get a photo for you.

Robbo-92
23-05-2015, 22:33
Just take my word for it, in the UK it's still dark at 3am.

Even on June 21st the sun won't rise until about 4:43 in the UK, it won't be light at 3am in any shape or form.

mister dog
23-05-2015, 22:37
I live in Scotland and will try to get a photo for you.

I'm starting to like the atmosphere of this thread, sim racers waiting till the early hours and taking a pic of the night skies just to prove a point.


Just take my word for it, in the UK it's still dark at 3am.

Even on June 21st the sun won't rise until about 4:43 in the UK, it won't be light at 3am in any shape or form.
That's what i'm thinking. I'm Belgian and when I used to live there it wouldn't get light until around 5AM in the summer.

Beardybrave
23-05-2015, 22:38
I'm sorry man, but that's the point. Cameras always involve a compromise and choice. I know this because cameras are my profession and have been for nearly twenty years, as part of that profession I often have to go to non-built up areas in and around the twilight hours to make nice photographs of things. I'm not sure what else I can say.

Go and Google it, read the link I just posted (I can't believe you actually read all of it in the time between me posting and you replying =) ). I know it must be hard to get your head round if you're from that much closer to the equator, but it's a verifiable fact that as you move further north, the days get dramatically longer in the summer. It's also easily demonstrated that cameras don't match the human eye.

mister dog
23-05-2015, 22:42
I'm sorry man, but that's the point. Cameras always involve a compromise and choice. I know this because cameras are my profession and have been for nearly twenty years, as part of that profession I often have to go to non-built up areas in and around the twilight hours to make nice photographs of things. I'm not sure what else I can say.

Go and Google it, read the link I just posted (I can't believe you actually read all of it in the time between me posting and you replying =) ). I know it must be hard to get your head round if you're from that much closer to the equator, but it's a verifiable fact that as you move further north, the days get dramatically longer in the summer. It's also easily demonstrated that cameras don't match the human eye.
I won't question you know your profession, and twilight circumstances might make the skies a bit lighter at around 3AM in the north of England on the 21st of june, in an open field, with a decent human eye :)

But it sure as hell won't look like this:

http://i57.tinypic.com/14lo4zk.jpg

Robbo-92
23-05-2015, 22:44
I'm sorry man, but that's the point. Cameras always involve a compromise and choice. I know this because cameras are my profession and have been for nearly twenty years, as part of that profession I often have to go to non-built up areas in and around the twilight hours to make nice photographs of things. I'm not sure what else I can say.

Go and Google it, read the link I just posted (I can't believe you actually read all of it in the time between me posting and you replying =) ). I know it must be hard to get your head round if you're from that much closer to the equator, but it's a verifiable fact that as you move further north, the days get dramatically longer in the summer. It's also easily demonstrated that cameras don't match the human eye.

So in the UK civil twilight starts at 3am? 1 hour and 43 minutes before the sun rises? I'm not disputing the fact that you can easily see clearly before the sun has risen but I don't believe for a minute that happens 1 hour and 43 minutes before the sun rises (and that's if that image from Silverstone is from June 21st, the longest day of the year).

Beardybrave
23-05-2015, 22:58
Nautical twilight begins then at around 3:16. I'm telling you though where I'm based Nautical twilight is workable light. Especially if you've been in it for a while. But I have to be honest, I give in. Short of going out on a Saturday night in Fife (not advisable) somewhere dark and quiet with easy parking (really not advisable on a Saturday night), and making a photograph that exactly represents what I see (highly subjective, no matter what), there's nothing much left to say.

My main point is that it's not as simple as it seems. Short of having driven a 24 hr race ourselves (I'd love to have someone with that experience chip in ), the only facts are in the sunset tables. The rest is down to perception, which differs from person to person. Which means the devs have to compromise between perception, reality and gameplay. That's not easy.

Anyway, thanks all for being civil.

Edit: sorry, Nautical twilight actually begins at 2:30 ish on that date.

yusupov
23-05-2015, 23:01
giving up would be a very good idea.

Beardybrave
23-05-2015, 23:03
Obviously that last part needn't apply to you if you're going to be an asshat about it.

radney
23-05-2015, 23:42
I hope this is not a silly question but where and how do you know what time it is in Project Cars? I don't see the time nowhere in the HUD when I raced Le Mans. I was curious to know when my 24 hours were up. Thanks.

Alan Dallas
23-05-2015, 23:43
I hope this is not a silly question but where and how do you know what time it is in Project Cars? I don't see the time nowhere in the HUD when I raced Le Mans. I was curious to know when my 24 hours were up. Thanks.
Timer in the lower left corner wit the Lap counter.

radney
23-05-2015, 23:49
Timer in the lower left corner wit the Lap counter.

Yes....I see a timer running as I run the race but the actual time I don't see. I started the event at 2:00 PM or 14:00. I don't see that type of clock.

BMASTER
24-05-2015, 01:30
Because there is none. But if you know when you started, you can do the math.

radney
24-05-2015, 01:54
Because there is none. But if you know when you started, you can do the math.

I'm not interested in doing math. If you're not helpful, then your suggestion is not needed. It was cool just saying it doesn't exist. If I'm racing the game with time progression at 5x, there's no way of keeping up with the time. I barely can keep my car on the track, let alone trying to figure out math......REALLY????

BMASTER
24-05-2015, 02:25
I'm not interested in doing math. If you're not helpful, then your suggestion is not needed. It was cool just saying it doesn't exist. If I'm racing the game with time progression at 5x, there's no way of keeping up with the time. I barely can keep my car on the track, let alone trying to figure out math......REALLY????

Haha, didn't mean to offend you with that. I just pointed out the obvious solution to that. Didn't think about the people that don't like math :p

Neifesis
24-05-2015, 03:14
It doesn't matter what issue you find with this game, all the response you get is that it's not the games fault and it must be something your doing. Why wear shades when it's supposed to be a sim yet can't make it dark at night?
I was so hyped for this game with all the praise it was getting and how it was going to be the best racing game for console but it has done nothing but disappoint. Got my refund from Microsoft and will buy this game in 6 months when it's cheaper
and has been updated to work properly.

I don't blame you... I cringe every time I see it. And yes, you get all the cars but only 62 plus 2 karts. Boring because... No progression, no auction, no paint and decal customization, you can't even rotate the cars when deciding which one you wanna drive, single player career mode is the worst of any racing game.
Guys, the list goes on. Buyers beware.

It's gonna take more than a few patches to fix this one.

BMASTER
24-05-2015, 03:45
/ignoring the fact that any photograph involves a choice, either human or programmatic, about how much light to let in.


Actually it'll make a significant difference. Even right now the difference between sunrise in the south of Spain (7:06 in Marbella) and Silverstone ( 4:58) is over two hours. By mid June that difference increases a bit too. Nautical twilight begins at around 2:30 though, which is defined as having usable light for working to, the entire rest of the night at that time of the year is defined as astronomical twilight. What this means is, that if you're somewhere dark, like , say Silverstone (or where I live, much further north), at this time of year, pitch black isn't really a thing. It might seem so in a built up area, but not out in the sticks, where race tracks generally are.

This photography article covers it all imo, and the images used to illustrate the various twilight events look close enough to project cars to me..
http://www.digital-photo-secrets.com/tip/2832/the-differences-between-civil-nautical-and-astronomical-twilight/
That said, and as I've said before, perception of light is very difficult to quantify unless you've done it at that latitude in those conditions yourself.

I know people seem set on pointing out bugs, and that's a very valuable thing to do, but in cases like this it's really not that simple. I'd argue that what's happening here is that the way cameras work is being conflated* with the way the eye works. So the expectation is based on what's been seen on tv coverage. That doesn't match what the developers have been told by the drivers, or what they've experienced themselves in researching it, because reality doesn't match that.

Reality not matching perception, is a common issue with any simulator, but especially with an issue like this.


* The other conflation common round here is one of perceiving a difference of opinion as a personal attack. It's really not. Frustrated as people might be.

I really do believe you that it might look like this in Silverstone at 3AM. But I'm not so sure about Le Mans since this track isn't so far north like Silverstone. I live in Switzerland and about 5 degree of latitude next to Le Mans, maybe 6 degree and about 1 or 2 degree of longitude under Le Mans (Hope I didn't get those two confused). I found a site (http://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/about-sun-calculator.html)where you can search for the Locations and all times for Astronomical, Nautical and Civil twilight.
It's 3:09AM as I'm writing this. Astronomical twilight just started and of course, it looks still pretty darn dark outside. But that's probably because it's cloudy. In Silverstone astronomical twilight is after sunset till, well, the website says "rest of night", so let's settle for nautical twilight which is at 3:10AM. Here in Wohlen Switzerland nautical twilight is at 4:14AM and I'm writing these lines at this time. (Yeah, I really waited over an hour just for that xD). Unfortunately, it's still cloudy so, it got just a tad brighter. Now it's 5:03 I can see the horizon in Wohlen and civil twilight just started. It's still really cloudy so it looks more like nautical twilight gets discribed.

If I have a look at the timetables of Silverstone nautical twilight starts at 3:10AM. This is Silverstone at 2AM (wanted to do 3AM, my fault)
204212

And this at 5AM
204213

As you can see, it's a bit brighter. Sunrise in Silverstone should be at 4:58AM so the second screenshot is correct. But the first one is too bright even an hour before nautical twilight. I don't really know, since it's cloudy here, how those twilights are supposed to look like. Pictures on google can't be used for reference, since they are made with cameras and they look all way to different from each other. And now I see, that the sky is completely covered, no wonder I can't see much even at civil twilight. Now it's 5:41AM and sunrise started, it looks more like civil twilight gets discribed.

I think the transition between nautical and civil twilight might look like this. It's at 0.30AM
204216

But now it's really time for bed. Maybe next time I try to observe the twilights the sky is clear.

yusupov
24-05-2015, 03:47
cant believe there is a "debate" about this. show of hands, other than the one guy -- does that look like 2AM to you? nobody? thx.

kilotango
24-05-2015, 06:39
But it sure as hell won't look like this:

http://i57.tinypic.com/14lo4zk.jpg

Mister dog, thanks for bringing up this topic, infact it was just last night that i was thinking the same thing about silverstone.

for those of you who watched the Britcar 24 hour episode on Top Gear a while back, you'll remember how dark the track was from the cockpit point of view as well as how the presenters complained about not being able to see far enough with standard headlights. i tried to emulate the same conditions in pCARS, but just could not get that realistic kind of darkness no matter what i tried (date, time, etc)

Flihp
24-05-2015, 07:06
Hi Kilotango,
how dark are you getting?, just tried silverstone both at 4AM and 5AM Jan 15, and its quite dark for me, you can see 5 AM is a tad lighter, ( see the time on the dash console so you know there is no BS about the time i am selecting.)

204218

204219

Phil

BMASTER
24-05-2015, 08:02
Which date is it ingame?

Flihp
24-05-2015, 08:28
Which date is it ingame?

if that Q was for me January 15 2015

phil

BMASTER
24-05-2015, 08:42
if that Q was for me January 15 2015

phil

Yeah, I meant your pictures. As I mentioned several sites before. In december and generally winter season it looks believable. But not in the summer season in the game. My screenshots are from today ingame date.

Flihp
24-05-2015, 08:56
yes Bmaster, my message and screenies was for KiloTango, where he mentioned he couldnt get it to be dark no matter which date and time and tried.

cheers.
Phil

kilotango
24-05-2015, 10:31
Hi Kilotango,
how dark are you getting?, just tried silverstone both at 4AM and 5AM Jan 15, and its quite dark for me, you can see 5 AM is a tad lighter, ( see the time on the dash console so you know there is no BS about the time i am selecting.)

204218

204219

Phil

Hi Flihp

Ok, i have tried Jan 15th.. and at 4am i am seeing the same darkness as your screenshot! now thats more like it :)
thanks for pointing me in the right direction! ;)

mister dog
24-05-2015, 10:44
Setting the events to winter or early spring is a good workaround but during career you won't be able to do that, so i hope they fix this in the next months + add a mid race save feature and i can start endurance racing there :)

Beardybrave
24-05-2015, 14:38
cant believe there is a "debate" about this. show of hands, other than the one guy -- does that look like 2AM to you? nobody? thx.

You know, every body here, in this thread has demonstrated how to have a debate without being a dick. Apart from "one guy". You don't have to read the thread, just move on if you're not interested ffs.

BMASTER
25-05-2015, 10:29
Hope someone who lives near of one of those tracks with good equipment can take some shots of the twilights.

@Beardybrave
I'm not sure if you said you would take pictures or not. But for good results it needs to be clear weather.
Here in Switzerland it's quite cloudy this week.

Beardybrave
26-05-2015, 08:13
@bmaster I'm tempted to, but all the moons* have to align first (ii.e. Weather, what I'm doing the next day, etc).


*ha! Imagine if we had multiple moons to simulate. How pissed off would people get about debating it then. ;) I'm sure I saw something about accurate night sky simulation too. Is that still a thing? Ie constellations etc. Just curious, rather than bothered.

mister dog
30-05-2015, 23:30
I also find the stars a bit too big. It looks like they are all pole stars. Since we are striving for perfection here i'd like to request that their diameter is reduced a little so they look more realistic :)

cerbrus2
30-05-2015, 23:42
From experience of going to both 24 hour event's at the Nurbergring and Le Mans. In Nurberg if you venture out in the forest and away from the Nurbergring GP track, there is less Light pollution so the sky seems much much darker compared to Le mans, where there is more light pollution due to everything that is going on at the time of the race. That being said, i don't really notice it in game, because if your driving around looking at the sky your doing it wrong :P. And i think their may be more pressing issues at hand other than the shade of the night sky to worry about for the Devs.

mister dog
31-05-2015, 00:10
From experience of going to both 24 hour event's at the Nurbergring and Le Mans. In Nurberg if you venture out in the forest and away from the Nurbergring GP track, there is less Light pollution so the sky seems much much darker compared to Le mans, where there is more light pollution due to everything that is going on at the time of the race. That being said, i don't really notice it in game, because if your driving around looking at the sky your doing it wrong :P. And i think their may be more pressing issues at hand other than the shade of the night sky to worry about for the Devs.
Main bug (also the reason why this thread was started), is that during summer conditions the sun comes up way too early (already getting light at 3AM). I guess you just looked at the title and jumped to conclusions there :)

And yes, the size of the stars isn't a major game breaker, and won't be nr.1 on SMS's priority list any time soon as there are more pressing issues at hand right now. But that doesn't mean these graphical errors can't be corrected at a later stage and if no one would bother to mention it, it will never be corrected.

Small details form a grand picture http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/images/smilies/wise.gif

yusupov
31-05-2015, 00:24
oh, wow. this thread. :bi_polo:

2AM, ladies & gentlemen:

205448

very close to reality :rolleyes:

(and thats not my screenshot, thats direct from a guy trying to make the point that its accurate...and no he's not a troll; i know the species well. <3 the internet)

cerbrus2
31-05-2015, 00:27
Main bug (also the reason why this thread was started), is that during summer conditions the sun comes up way too early (already getting light at 3AM). I guess you just looked at the title and jumped to conclusions there :)

And yes, the size of the stars isn't a major game breaker, and won't be nr.1 on SMS's priority list any time soon as there are more pressing issues at hand right now. But that doesn't mean these graphical errors can't be corrected at a later stage and if no one would bother to mention it, it will never be corrected.

Small details form a grand picture http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/images/smilies/wise.gif

I would explain Astro twilight for you, that starts around 3 am in the summer and makes the sky start to lighten but I'm all out of crayons. Having said that mine looks much darker than some of the pictures shown in this thread. But that could well be my monitors settings, so wont matter if the games are set to default or not.

Andy Apex
31-05-2015, 00:52
I would explain Astro twilight for you, that starts around 3 am in the summer and makes the sky start to lighten but I'm all out of crayons. Having said that mine looks much darker than some of the pictures shown in this thread. But that could well be my monitors settings, so wont matter if the games are set to default or not.

It's too bad it can't be done with a simple setting like the settings in f.lux does for monitor settings
205459

Just sayin'

mister dog
31-05-2015, 01:13
I would explain Astro twilight for you, that starts around 3 am in the summer and makes the sky start to lighten but I'm all out of crayons. Having said that mine looks much darker than some of the pictures shown in this thread. But that could well be my monitors settings, so wont matter if the games are set to default or not.
Astro twilight won't make 3AM look like morning.

Photonmonkey
01-06-2015, 17:22
You might want to check out 'timeanddate.com' you can specify a country city and it gives you the times etc for twilight nautical twilight and so on, interesting for instance in my home town of Worcester UK it never actually gets totally dark at this time of year, I can attest to this as woke up at about 3:30am and found the sky scarily bright! Not saying that the times light etc are perfect in PC but I don't think they are that far out.

mister dog
01-06-2015, 17:33
You might want to check out 'timeanddate.com' you can specify a country city and it gives you the times etc for twilight nautical twilight and so on, interesting for instance in my home town of Worcester UK it never actually gets totally dark at this time of year, I can attest to this as woke up at about 3:30am and found the sky scarily bright! Not saying that the times light etc are perfect in PC but I don't think they are that far out.

So this is how it looked when you looked at the window?:

http://i60.tinypic.com/16igz5w.jpg

And that's Silverstone 2AM.

Please read through the thread first as this point has been raised before. If you would have seen how much daylight there actually is in PCARS whilst it should still be night, you wouldn't have made it yet again ;)

davideliasirwin
01-06-2015, 17:36
I was expecting to open this thread and see Neil degrasse Tyson giving some feedback. He has been known to do so in the past: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/arts-post/post/titanic-night-sky-adjusted-after-neil-degrasse-tyson-criticized-james-cameron/2012/04/03/gIQAZyZItS_blog.html.

BMASTER
01-06-2015, 18:01
You might want to check out 'timeanddate.com' you can specify a country city and it gives you the times etc for twilight nautical twilight and so on, interesting for instance in my home town of Worcester UK it never actually gets totally dark at this time of year, I can attest to this as woke up at about 3:30am and found the sky scarily bright! Not saying that the times light etc are perfect in PC but I don't think they are that far out.

I alreasy had a look at this site a little more than a week ago. Also I posted some screenshots, one of them you see in mister dogs post.

I live in switzerland and it's not that bright until short before sunrise.

But I'm still waiting for some pictures from Beardybrave. Hope he can take them soon.

Photonmonkey
01-06-2015, 18:04
I did read the whole thread, the link was for anyone that actually wanted to check this out for themselves and I have tested Silverstone myself at 2am, in Winter in the game on my set up it is black with a star field which I can live with and in the summer months for instance June it is a dark sky with a lighter horizon but nowhere near as bright as your screenshot that looks like the sun has already risen. I could attempt screen shots but as other people have mentioned it also depends on your monitor etc so not much point and as I stated, I didn't say it was perfect just for 'me' it is not a massive issue. I can appreciate that depending on the atmosphere a night sky in summer is no where near as dark as winter time which the game seems to simulate quite accurately.

mister dog
01-06-2015, 18:10
@BMASTER screenshot was 2AM right?

Photonmonkey
01-06-2015, 18:12
Apologies I must have missed that post, was quite suprised myself when I checked it out, my only point is that my screens are not that light at those times at Silverstone at any time of year. We need someone at Silverstone on a clear night at 2am in the middle of Summer to put this one to bed either way, not saying it's correct not saying it's wrong but I would love to see it!

Robbo-92
01-06-2015, 18:17
I think that is the only way this issue will be settled. Anyone live near Silverstone/in Northamptonshire?

mister dog
01-06-2015, 18:20
If it's that bright at 2AM i'll shave of my hair and grow a beard.

And to avoid trolls posting pics from early morning, next time i have the chance (probably this weekend), i'll check out some English webcams during the night, and post screens here.

I can't believe there's still people doubting if 2-3AM would actually look that bright http://slangit.com/images/shortcuts/wordpress/shocked.png

Ryno917
01-06-2015, 18:45
@bmaster I'm tempted to, but all the moons* have to align first (ii.e. Weather, what I'm doing the next day, etc).


*ha! Imagine if we had multiple moons to simulate. How pissed off would people get about debating it then. ;) I'm sure I saw something about accurate night sky simulation too. Is that still a thing? Ie constellations etc. Just curious, rather than bothered.

Imagine if Earth actually had rings instead of a moon? Everyone would be in a huff about how the rings' shadow doesn't fall across the plains properly :P



That all being said, if the posted screenshot really is 2AM at Silverstone, then it's definitely too bright. At half 3, maybe, but not 2am. I haven't tried it myself, but it could also be the software settings for the hardware used on that machine that are brightening things up - it's not uncommon for different computers to get vastly different results. That could be what's happening, too. So many different variables.

If it is simply an issue in pCARS, I'd like to see it fixed, too. But I don't really care, either way, if I'm honest. As mentioned, there are other much larger issues.

_Kicks_
01-06-2015, 20:53
Quick, somebody call Patrick Moore.

Hope you've got a Ouija Board ;)

Flihp
02-06-2015, 02:20
If it's that bright at 2AM i'll shave of my hair and grow a beard


Let's just pretend it is that bright...... I want to see before and after pics, :)

mister dog
09-06-2015, 21:44
Just for the sake of reporting this issue completely, as so far we have talked about dawn coming a couple of hours too soon and it not being dark enough. Night sets in too late also. During summer it should be dark around 10ish but this is Le mans past 23:00 on June 9th:

http://i59.tinypic.com/2ptvsc2.jpg

So night sets in more than an hour late also.

Flihp
10-06-2015, 01:54
you should do a slow drive past the crowd and see if they are wearing sunglasses at night, i bet they are!.. i also think that they have put a ban on "flash" photography, i havent spotted a single flash going off :). it's not a problem but something that may add a bit more realism down the track, :)


phil

F1Aussie
10-06-2015, 08:37
Had a long race at snetterton the other evening, started practice at 3pm, it started getter dark at around 8pm but was not pitch black until midnight, then started getting light again at 1am, had to laugh. Checked some english weather website and i think it said last light at snetterton at this time of year is around 9.40pm and first light is 3.30 - 3.45am
Had a go at bathurst last night was dark before 6pm and still pitch black when the race finished after midnight. Checked my local weather website and sure enough at this time of year it is dark at 5.30pm there.

I have also noticed that at times it starts to get dark on some tracks and then brightens up a little bit before going dark again.

It seems it is a little bit hit and miss at the moment.

mister dog
10-06-2015, 21:00
I'm enjoying the WEC livestream at the moment, and this is a screen of 23:00 at the Mulsanne straight:

http://i58.tinypic.com/123mn1z.png

Of course it's from an onboard so the quality isn't the best, but as you can see it's pitch dark out there :)

Jabbar993
10-06-2015, 21:06
Hope this will be addressed, I love racing in the night (provided the car has headlights :-))

legendm0de
04-07-2015, 05:19
Has this been resolved, I've been enjoying real time Imola since 3pm gametime free practice, in the summer on this current date. No real world weather, (PS4) but conditions via weather underground, I chose Hazy progressing to Clear. This is what I see now, I'm taking the screenshot so I don't know how different yet it'll appear from my tv settings to the game cap.

Looks pretty good, my headlights auto turned on about 1 hour ago at least, and at the time the sun was clearly going below the horizon. Could no longer see any sun aside from it's light still existing. Around 1 hour or more later and the weather is at the screenshot you see above. Again, I started this free practice around 3pm gametime and if I had to guess, I've been letting it progress around 6 hours now which would make it past 9 oclock in the game. 12pm my time currently. Therefore, I do expect if to get much darker if indeed I stay on the game long enough. I didn't intend to monitor this, but I just gave it a try.

The lighting in this weather progression, seem to be very good and much better than what I was expecting. I have about two questions, does anyone else still experience those night sky issues, the same way anymore in the summertime or any dst days? Second question, was there a fix on this issue included in the last patch? I just read the 2.0 notes for the first time and no mention of this was made. I don't recall this ever being addressed in the earlier patch either.

Really would like to know what's the status on this issue, it's one of the only things that has kept me from playing more often. I think I will leave my system running through the night about 4 more hours to take another screen of the sky past midnight here. Again, I would project these current screens at around 9:30pm in game.

210597210598

Flihp
04-07-2015, 06:11
Must say I haven't tried, but I shall have a look tonight. Will be interesting. Thx for the info/update...

legendm0de
04-07-2015, 06:39
Yep, 1 hour later and it's a very recognizable night sky at around a projected 10:30 , 11:00pm. I will update this post with the next screenshots, I'll take in a couple hours representing past midnight. This again, is Imola Italy Current date, so July 3 into 4th 2015.

edit: The following screens are 2am pictures
210664210665210663

I will test Dubai next, one circuit I was massively dissapointed in because that's where I discovered this was even a problem and night racing is quite important there due to the heat of day. Hope that this is not just some illusion. Even though, it's all fixable by going into another season, this needs to be appropriate lighting for any time of year because I would assume in career, you will have no choice over what date to take part in events.

BMASTER
04-07-2015, 07:32
Would be nice if someone could confirm this for Silverstone, Le Mans and Nords.

mister dog
04-07-2015, 08:12
@BMASTER, the issue with summer night skies doesn't affect all circuits. If i'm not mistaken tracks like Imola and Laguna Seca don't have this problem but other tracks like Silverstone, Le Mans and the Ring do suffer from it.

Best way to check it is to do a free practice session in June at either 22pm or 3am on those circuits. At 22pm it still looks like it's 21pm (not dark), and at 3am it already looks like it's 5am (daylight setting in).

Animera
04-07-2015, 09:06
If you do the Le Mans 24hr invitational race it goes pitch black at night.

legendm0de
04-07-2015, 14:54
I'm not convinced this is an issue anymore after the proper experience with it last night at Imola, afterward I went to Dubai's circuit on current date and time which was 4am and it was a very lit circuit but the skies were perfectly dark. Dubai's a special scenario because it's a metropolitan area but at 4am, the combination of city and circuit lights, and the proper 4am sky looked wonderful. Dubai's circuit is where I noticed this issue to start with, and it soured my impression on the game. Seeing it correct now, I'll definitely try more tracks over time but I'm almost fully sure there is no longer an issue on any circuits.

mister dog
04-07-2015, 17:16
I'm not convinced this is an issue anymore after the proper experience with it last night at Imola, afterward I went to Dubai's circuit on current date and time which was 4am and it was a very lit circuit but the skies were perfectly dark. Dubai's a special scenario because it's a metropolitan area but at 4am, the combination of city and circuit lights, and the proper 4am sky looked wonderful. Dubai's circuit is where I noticed this issue to start with, and it soured my impression on the game. Seeing it correct now, I'll definitely try more tracks over time but I'm almost fully sure there is no longer an issue on any circuits.

I'll check it out myself this evening and report back, wasn't in the patch notes so it would surprise me.

Panopticism
04-07-2015, 19:05
I'm late to this party, but I would like to add that the 'first light' phenomenon can be more or less dramatic depending on the humidity and other factors. As fog, haze, low cloud ceiling, etc. catch the first bit of light, the whole sky can be lit up on one night when it would be much, much darker if it were clear. The 24h of Nürburgring was red flagged due to fog one year that I can remember, and it had been easier to see the track around first light, but as the fog intensified and the sun wasn't able to clear it up, it became very dangerous.

The other one is light pollution, which can have a similar influence on fog/haze and brightness.

And finally, it will never get properly pitch black if we're anywhere near a full moon. Some nights, the moon is bright enough that you can drive around some tracks without headlights.

Maybe the game doesn't get the night sky perfectly accurate, but I would hope that there is some variety based on weather, light pollution, moon cycle, etc.

mister dog
04-07-2015, 19:55
I'm late to this party
You are :)

These things have all been mentioned before but feel free to read through the 7 pages and check out the screens. It's probably just a minor error in how late night is triggered and how early sunlight sets in. Some circuits are good and unaffected, other circuits have this issue during summertime.

Some circuits also have what i mentioned in the OP that the sky doesn't really look black, and with those one could use the arguments you mentioned above. Yet those kind of conditions where you can still see the surroundings as far as the horizon aren't what i have experienced in real life even when it's full moon (that night looks more like a dark day then actual night).

Flaw3dGenius
04-07-2015, 20:14
Dan Dan the 450 cars Forza man seems to be constantly going on in interviews how his game has pitch black skies compared to other games...Is dark skies more taxing then lesser dark skies?

TheReaper GT
04-07-2015, 21:48
Dan Dan the 450 cars Forza man seems to be constantly going on in interviews how his game has pitch black skies compared to other games...Is dark skies more taxing then lesser dark skies?

I don't think so. This ain't Flight Simulator for crying out loud :D
Another approach to the topic. I look to the track :D

mister dog
05-07-2015, 00:13
I'm not convinced this is an issue anymore after the proper experience with it last night at Imola, afterward I went to Dubai's circuit on current date and time which was 4am and it was a very lit circuit but the skies were perfectly dark. Dubai's a special scenario because it's a metropolitan area but at 4am, the combination of city and circuit lights, and the proper 4am sky looked wonderful. Dubai's circuit is where I noticed this issue to start with, and it soured my impression on the game. Seeing it correct now, I'll definitely try more tracks over time but I'm almost fully sure there is no longer an issue on any circuits.

Ok went back to Le Mans which i knew was one of the affected tracks, date selected was the 14th of June:

23:00 hrs, looks more like it's somewhere in between 21 and 22PM for that time of the year:

http://i60.tinypic.com/nxp002.jpg

03:00 AM, looks more like somewhere between 05:00 and 06:00 AM for that time of the year:

http://i62.tinypic.com/2j0d212.jpg

Conclusion, issue was not fixed with 2.0.

legendm0de
05-07-2015, 01:19
Yep, it remains disappointing. Not sure why dubai's circuit is improved into the night past sunset, but I assume now it's still a widespread enough issue for DST calendar racing.

Qxs
26-07-2015, 17:19
So, it seems the bigger problem is that the settings applied for an Online session are not the same as a Practice session.
I just spent an hour setting up a nice night time Lemans 24h scenario in Practice only to discover the Online UI settings for Date/Time are broken.
This probably affects many tracks but I didn't check...
I would expect the setting selected for Practice to be identical to Online, but they currently are not (2.5).

Edit: So, it may only be the UI that is not displaying the correct icons. When starting the online race the time of day seemed to be the same...

mister dog
26-07-2015, 20:11
So, it seems the bigger problem is that the settings applied for an Online session are not the same as a Practice session.
I just spent an hour setting up a nice night time Lemans 24h scenario in Practice only to discover the Online UI settings for Date/Time are broken.
This probably affects many tracks but I didn't check...
I would expect the setting selected for Practice to be identical to Online, but they currently are not (2.5).

Edit: So, it may only be the UI that is not displaying the correct icons. When starting the online race the time of day seemed to be the same...
I'm sorry but i don't really understand what you mean? Is the online bug you talk about the same one as the one occurring in offline, like demonstrated in this thread? If not what is the difference exactly?

tgrey
26-07-2015, 21:50
I'm going to jump in and ask a semi-related question on this thread... is there a way (specifically on consoles) to check the current time when you're racing?

Roger Prynne
26-07-2015, 22:11
^^^ No there's not I'm afraid, but has been asked for many times..... not sure whether it will make it in or not.
I personally would like to see implemented myself.

tgrey
26-07-2015, 22:19
^^^ No there's not I'm afraid, but has been asked for many times..... not sure whether it will make it in or not.
I personally would like to see implemented myself.

+1, I also think that could be useful, particularly in endurance races or races with a sped up time cycle. Since I race in hood-cam I don't get to see the awesome motec display, I figured maybe it was tucked away somewhere in there.

Speaking of, that reminds me... I wanted to request that external cams show the same motec display (with cycle motec button functioning) as internal cams get. I'll go do that now ;)

Roger Prynne
26-07-2015, 22:28
+1, I also think that could be useful, particularly in endurance races or races with a sped up time cycle. Since I race in hood-cam I don't get to see the awesome motec display, I figured maybe it was tucked away somewhere in there.

Speaking of, that reminds me... I wanted to request that external cams show the same motec display (with cycle motec button functioning) as internal cams get. I'll go do that now ;)

Yep that one's been asked for many times as well :D

tgrey
26-07-2015, 22:30
Yep that one's been asked for many times as well :D

Strange, I searched in the requests area for "motec" first and didn't see anything that looked relevant... I'll admit I didn't look for that long tho. Maybe it was buried with a bunch of other requests in something generic sounding like "HUD improvements"?

Roger Prynne
26-07-2015, 22:35
Strange, I searched in the requests area for "motec" first and didn't see anything that looked relevant... I'll admit I didn't look for that long tho. Maybe it was buried with a bunch of other requests in something generic sounding like "HUD improvements"?

I'll have a look myself later..... the more the requests for the same thing though, will not do any harm.

Just had a thought how to get around the time of day problem.

So you know what time you are starting your race right..... so just set you watch or a clock to the same time.
The only thing is you would have to be using 'Real Time' and not 'Accelerated' time.

Just a thought that came to mind :indecisiveness:

mister dog
26-07-2015, 22:40
The BMW M1 coupe (2012), does have a handy clock in the dash, so that's one of the few cars you can read of the time of day with :)

Roger Prynne
26-07-2015, 22:43
Does it actually display the correct time? as I've never checked that myself.

mister dog
26-07-2015, 22:44
Is it actually the right time? as I've never checked that myself.
Yes it is, even with accelerated time it will follow what you selected.

Roger Prynne
26-07-2015, 22:46
Yes it is, even with accelerated time it will follow what you selected.

Well I'll be ******, I never new that, nice find.

janini
01-10-2015, 18:16
Ok let me conclude this matter.

Everything is as it should be, and verry good indeed.
Let me put it this way. If there was a racetrack in Iceland, which probably is and you run 02.Am in June, you will still be able to see the sun.

depending on where you are on earth, and at what time of the year, the night sky is different .. !!

Greeting Jan Nielsen

janini
01-10-2015, 18:28
Exposure rate is set at default and conditions are clear @ 2AM (which should be pitch black). On a lot of circuits the night sky is too bright for those circumstances, whilst on others it is correct. On the faulty ones it seems like dawn is about to break (more like 5AM):

Too bright

The ring:

http://i58.tinypic.com/awz31j.jpg

Le Mans:

http://i58.tinypic.com/2w4ick9.jpg

Some circuits are correct, for example Laguna Seca has a night sky at 2AM that looks believable:

http://i57.tinypic.com/292ky6q.jpg

Apologies for the average image quality, taken with a smartphone, but i hope you get the point. All pictures were taken with the same car; the BMW Z4.




Ok let me conclude this matter.

Everything is as it should be, and verry good indeed.
Let me put it this way. If there was a racetrack in Iceland, which probably is and you run 02.Am in June, you will still be able to see the sun.

depending on where you are on earth, and at what time of the year, the night sky is different .. !!

Greeting Jan Nielsen

Del Zotto x82x
01-10-2015, 18:36
I didn't read thru every post, and sorry if someone has said this but you have to change the setting to manual and not automatic in order to get the right time set or correct darkness

mister dog
01-10-2015, 19:00
Ok let me conclude this matter.

Everything is as it should be, and verry good indeed.
Let me put it this way. If there was a racetrack in Iceland, which probably is and you run 02.Am in June, you will still be able to see the sun.

depending on where you are on earth, and at what time of the year, the night sky is different .. !!

Greeting Jan Nielsen

Not again..., you probably didn't read through this thread but this point has been raised about 7 times already and has been refuted... Seeing dawnish light at the horizon does not happen in western Europe in the middle of the night, and nights are supposed to be dark, you will not be able to enjoy all the scenery as far as your eye can see as it happens in PCARS. Even under full moon conditions it will be a bit brighter, but not as much as in PCARS


I didn't read thru every post, and sorry if someone has said this but you have to change the setting to manual and not automatic in order to get the right time set or correct darkness
Don't think anyone mentioned this yet. I'll check it out see if that makes a difference, thanks for the tip.

Raven403
01-10-2015, 19:02
I didn't read thru every post, and sorry if someone has said this but you have to change the setting to manual and not automatic in order to get the right time set or correct darkness

^^ This mister dog

I had kept setting the Time of day and everything but it was still on "Current Date" and would override my input, it had to be on "Custom" for the ToD to work.

mister dog
01-10-2015, 20:01
^^ This mister dog

I had kept setting the Time of day and everything but it was still on "Current Date" and would override my input, it had to be on "Custom" for the ToD to work.
Thanks Raven, if it turns out it was just a bug/ wrong setting which made 2AM look like 5AM, i'll be a happy camper.

tclancey
01-10-2015, 21:17
Has anyone asked the moon people which angle their sphere was at during these times of day? There are days when the moon shines thought my bloody bedroom windows bright enough to alert all my neighbours to my night time rituals!!

TopAirspace
02-10-2015, 07:51
I think the night sky is pretty good, Time of year definitely has a difference

mister dog
04-10-2015, 01:40
Well i checked again on what was mentioned with having to select custom for it to work.
I'm afraid that's not the case, below screen is Silverstone, custom settings, 5th of July at 2AM:

http://i59.tinypic.com/wrj02u.jpg

So selecting custom or not doesn't matter, night sky = not correct.

madmax2069
04-10-2015, 01:53
Well i checked again on what was mentioned with having to select custom for it to work.
I'm afraid that's not the case, below screen is Silverstone, custom settings, 5th of July at 2AM:

http://i59.tinypic.com/wrj02u.jpg

So selecting custom or not doesn't matter, night sky = not correct.

Wow yeah thats definitely not right.

LogRoad
04-10-2015, 21:43
According to timeanddate.com and wikipedia.org, at Silverstone, UK on 5 July, nautical twilight begins at 0248, or 48 minutes after mr dog's screenshot. "In general nautical twilight ends when navigation via the horizon at sea is no longer possible" (wikipedia.org) - which I take to mean when it's too dark to see the horizon through a sextant's telescope, other factors co-operating. Nautical twilight would begin when the horizon is clearly visible, but these terms are not absolute or universal. I live at 55 deg, 40 sec North latitude, just 4 1/2 deg [correction, 3 1/2 deg] further north than Silverstone, and I would say that the screenshot seems a little bright for the time and date, but plausible and not unbelievable. But it's been a long time since I was last awake at 0200. The truest test would be for someone to take a picture of the horizon on the time and date at Silverstone. Or jump the gun a little and take the picture at 0200 on 4 June, when that morning's twilight will begin at the same time again.

http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/silverstone?month=7&year=2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight#Astronomical_twilight

yusupov
04-10-2015, 22:38
im confused by what youre saying. if nautical twilight begins approx an hour after that screenshot, does that mean it will be darker at 3am??

you live in alaska, which is famous for having 'daylong' (dont know the specifics) periods of darkness in winter & especially light in summer. ive never heard of that being the case in the UK, much less england & even less likely the midlands. i dont think we need a photograph to prove anything, anyone living in england would know if its sunlit at 2AM. because in most places, thats crazy.

LogRoad
04-10-2015, 23:26
Alaska is a big state and covers about 18 deg latitude or more. I live in the southernmost part and don't see 24 hours of sunlight in the spring - about the same latitude and amount of sunlight as Berwick, in the very north of Northumberland.

In the screenshot the sun is still below the horizon and the question is how far below the horizon? The answer to that determines the position's precision. The next question after that is, does the game accurately represent the daylight at that astronomical moment. England itself is big enough to have large differences in hours of daylight. The difference in daylight between where I live in Alaska and Silverstone is equivalent to the difference between Berwick and Silverstone. I'm just saying that based on my experiences at different latitudes the daylight presented by the game for the place, date and time seems a little bright to me, but not dramatically so. It may be spectacularly off, but so far I'm not persuaded.

P.S. Nautical twilight is an astronomical term with somewhat varying definitions, but basically begins in the morning before sunrise and ends in the evening some time after sunset. The rest is the part of the night that is black except for the light of the stars, planets and moon. How long there is some noticeable sunlight while the sun is down, and when it begins or ends, is what the term measures. Although the sun is not up 24 hours a day ever where I live, we do have enough sunlight after sunset and before sunrise that it is said that we have twilight all night long between sunset and sunrse around the summer solstice.

yusupov
04-10-2015, 23:36
my GUESS is the sun is in the correct place, but either a decision or accident was made & it illuminates far too much. i believe there were shots of de la sarthe at 2 or 3 AM this year & it was similar. lemans is very close to the solstice & im fairly sure its pitch black at those hours. but thats 2 "if i recall correctly's"...

which of course could at least be proven or disproven very simply by any of us if we cared enough to do so (i might try later tonight, although i hope i dont have to download a torrent of the entire race)

LogRoad
05-10-2015, 00:09
Le Mans itself is at 48 deg, which is 4 deg south of the latitude of Silverstone. Nautical twilight there, same date, starts at 0429 - about 1 hour and 41 minutes later than at Silverstone.

copes24
05-10-2015, 05:25
I have lived in England all my life and I've never seen sunlight at 2am.

Raven403
05-10-2015, 10:50
Well i checked again on what was mentioned with having to select custom for it to work.
I'm afraid that's not the case, below screen is Silverstone, custom settings, 5th of July at 2AM:

http://i59.tinypic.com/wrj02u.jpg

So selecting custom or not doesn't matter, night sky = not correct.

Damn, sorry mister dog. I haven't noticed this on Xbox, I'll have to give it a test