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Eppaligy
17-05-2015, 08:29
Dear Dev Team,

Firstly - thanks for an amazing game. I'm thoroughly enjoying playing it. You can feel the love that's been poured into this thing. I was not part of the WMD dev process at all, but followed development closely. Have been pumped for the game and am really getting a kick out of it. Thanks for all your hard work bringing out this product. Love it!

Secondly - as a long-term power user of racing games (iRacing veteran for many years; played about 8 seasons of Codemasters F1 games; played every Gran Turismo and Forza... my racing gaming stretches back to Pit Stop II on the C64! etc) I thought it would be useful to offer some genuinely constructive feedback. I hope you take the time to read this post (as I'm going to put some proper effort into writing it), and I hope both you as the Dev team, and other users find it a useful place to continue what I'm sure is going to be a very long patching process. Again, I am loving the game - but there are many things that, if I were the Dev team, I'd want to hear about!


QUICK BACKGROUND:

I would consider that I'm playing this game under 'optimal' conditions. I have three 27" monitors running in Surround, plugged into an Alienware Area 51 running dual GTX970s, I am using a logitech G25 force feedback setup (heavily tweaked). Audio is coming via Optical into a 5.1 surround setup. ... yes, I take my gaming pretty seriously :-) I mention this only because I hope it will inform how you read the feedback (that is, I think my rig is probably not sitting at the heart of any of the below issues!!

I always race with opponent skill turned up to 100, all assists set to 'off', tyre, fuel and weather set to real-time, races at 100% length and all car damage and penalties/flags set to 'full', and all graphics turned up as high as they can possibly go.. So - the most 'authentic' experience I can possibly get.

...um, yes, I repeat - I take my gaming pretty seriously.


1) SOME NOTICED BUGS:

To start with the easy stuff - some bugs. Some of these may have been mentioned elsewhere, but here's my quick list:

- Career mode, Shifter Karts, Glencairn --> during the auto-drive when starting from the outside track (odd number qualifying), you get auto-driven into a wall and can't do anything about it until the lights turn green. (it's okay, I raced my way back to first ;-)

- Career mode, Superkarts, season 1 race 1 (oulton park) --> AI drivers (though not me) seem to hit an invisible object every time they come around the first corner just after start-finish line, near pit exit. SUPER weird. They hit it, their Kart gets flipped up in the air, then they just kinda drive on (with the front of their car wrecked). At first, I thought I was smashing their lap times; then I realised they were actually hitting something every lap. Oops.

- On a number of occasions in Shifter Karts, I would complete first lap of the race and the laps wouldn't register. I'd be stuck on lap 1 and drop from 1st to last. I couldn't see a reason it was happening, and if it WAS because of a penalty, I certainly didn't receive any notices. I had to restart the race and the problem would fix itself. It probably happened about 1 in 8 or 9 times. Haven't seen the problem replicate in other race disciplines, yet.

- HUD customisation: this screen effectively doesn't work (killer - because the idea is AMAZING!). If I click on, say, my split times (located by default at the top right of center screen) with the intent of moving it somewhere else, it just moves itself to near the rear view mirror, and can't be moved elsewhere. See below for some thoughts on this feature in general, however the bug belongs in this list.


2) SOME FEATURES THAT I THINK ARE ESSENTIAL THAT ARE MISSING:

- Saving multiple setups: Given how much car setup is an integral part of the game (and I LOVE the focus you guys have put on this), it's a bit of an oversight to not allow multiple car setups to be saved. I understand that you can have different setups for a car across different tracks, however really you definitely need to be able to save multiple setups at a single track. Case in point: I just finished qualy at Donnington in Formula Rookie (clearly I'm working my way up, here!), and it was raining lightly. I wanted to tweak my settings for the wet track to glue the car a little more to the ground and increase stability, but then for the dry race wanted to switch back set-up. It was maddeningly difficult. FOr a good point of reference, check out how iRacing do their setups. You can 'Save As', load a factory default (which would be great), and save your own. If you're wanting your players to get really deep into the setup (which is loads of fun), this option is pretty much essential. It's one of the things that risks me putting the game down and not pick it up again, to be honest!! I know this might be hard for console users, but that shouldn't stop you doing it on PC.

- Importing setups: one of the things that's going to be essential to PCars long-term appeal is the community. The online elements are a key part of the value proposition and building up that community around the game is something you've certainly pushed in the marketing collateral from the beginning. Therefore, it makes the world of sense to create an option to share car setups. Again (sorry for the comparison - but I hope it helps!), this is a feature iRacing has included for years. If you go through those forums, you'll see loads specifically dedicated to setups. When I trawl the PCars fora, I see loads of people asking for shared setups, but because it's not easy to do (you have to write it out by hand, bit-by-bit) no one really does it. Once you integrate the Save As option from the previous post, it's pretty easy to just create a folder system where people can dive in via their HDD, grab the file, chuck it on the PCars forums and then build a community up around tweaking each others work. Makes sense; hope you do it! (probably the only way I'll ever get a genuinely great setup - mine are okay but not awesome).

- Being able to put more of the telemetry on screen at one time: the idea of a customising the HUD is absolutely brilliant. You guys have knocked it out of the park with this and I hope other games sit up and take notice. LOVE it. However, the frustrating limitation at the moment is I'm bound by which elements I can include in my HUD. PErhaps this is me not understanding the functionality, but I don't seem to be able to, for instance, include digital tyre temps on my HUD. Or the CM measurement of bump (which is another great little feature). I have to actually toggle the entire HUD to make that happen. If you're going to let us customise the HUD, maybe make it a bit easier to 'pull' relevant bits of info from different HUD layouts into one. For example, the HUD I wanted myself was basically rear-view mirror, splits/laptimes, gear and speed readout, pictures of tyres, digital tyre temps and bump distances. But I can't do that (those last two bits of info can't be pulled onto the other one.

- Competitor info as a HUD widget: If you check out the last few F1 games, Codemasters have really nailed the way they display competitor information. You can basically have a widget on the HUD that shows you the lap times of cars around you. During practice and qualy, it shows you a list of five times, with yours in the middle, and the two immediately faster cars above you, and two immediately slower cars below you. It shows the times in absolute MM:SS:THT, then when you cross each split divider and lap end it shows you the gap. DUring the race, it shows you the same information but relative the the cars in the two positions in front of you, and two positions behind you. It's basically an essential little widget that shows you your race pace. iRacing has integrated this feature in their 'black box', the little window at the bottom right where you can toggle in real-time through relative track positions of the cars around you (how far ahead/behind of you they are), or lap times. But in PCars, if I want to see my position relative to those around me (in practice and qualy) I actually need to PAUSE the game. That's about the worst possible way to integrate that, because we all know that in racing games you can't lose your rhythm by pausing all the time. During the race, at least I can see the gap to the person immediately in front and behind (which is really nicely integrated in the HUD widget that shows lap time and gap in-front/behind), BUT you really need to be able to see more than that for it to be useful information in race management.

- Car damage in HUD: I bump into things and hit things, but can't see what (if anything) is damaged. See Formula 1 (from about 2010 - 2015) to see an easy way to integrate this into the HUD. Really need some situational awareness about status of the car, please!! (although, also see my final point at the bottom for the limitations of the current damage model).

- Info in the pit-box: when in the pit box, I can't see any information from my last lap. In an ideal world, I need to be able to see my last hot-temps on my tyres (inside, middle, outside) so I can understand whether the suspension, damper, pressure settings (etc) are right. It also shows the current weather, but not the predicted weather - check out the iPad game "Motorsport Manager" to see a nice little integration of predicated weather patterns. This can be really important information when setting up the car, especially for a longer race.

- FOV - 180o. I am baffled as to why there is not a 180 FOV setting. In fact, the FOV settings in PCars seem really, really, strange. There are not 'opinions' about FOV - there is an actual answer to 'what is the right FOV'. It's a function of screen width, angle of the two side screens, viewing distance from central monitor and bezel width. CHeck out http://isimstation.net/content/iracing-monitor-placement-and-fov-setup-holy-grail for more details. I invested quite a bit of money in my setup in order to get as real as possible perspective for my Sim racing, which means really you need FOV to sit at about 180o (because the edge of your side monitors should be basically in line with the edge of your head) and everything on the screen needs to be roughly in proportion with the size and location it would be in the real world, relative to your noggin! Would be great if a future patch could bring PCars in line with this standard!


3) SOME SERIOUS REALISM ISSUES:

I just want to preface this list with a statement that most people would probably make, but I think is true in this case: I'm a pretty good at these games. TO put that in perspective, I play no-assists, 100% opponent strength, and can routinely take pole and win races. Not every time, by any stretch, but enough that I'm regularly winning. I'm NOT saying this to toot my own horn (I'm sure I'd get my butt handed to me if I raced online against some good racers! I certainly do on iRacing!!), I say this because I'm hoping that your response to the below feedback is not 'well, just race better'. I genuinely don't think that's an answer. So - the feedback:

- AI Situational Awareness is DREADFUL: I read many reviews of the game and approached it with great expectations, because many reviews (IGN, Kotaku, GameSpot etc) praised the AI. I can't lavish the same praise, unfortunately. In particular, my feedback is VERY specific - "the AI need to work harder to avoid accidents". Any good iRacer who takes their tough-but-fair, edge-of-your-seat, wheel-to-wheel racing seriously will tell you that sometimes you actually have to work to avoid an accident. But the AI simply do not. It makes racing in a pack virtually impossible, and - perversely- the better you are, the worse it is. Let me give you a very detailed example just to show you what I mean:

- Career, Formula Rookie, Catalunya: took pole by 1.5 seconds. One the first race by about 7 seconds having led from the start. So I am clearly faster under race conditions by about a second per lap. I didn't have a single off-track problem during the first race. THen, in the second race, because I forgot your second-fastest time is your start-position in Race 2 (and so I had simply skipped the rest of qualfy after my hot lap!) I started from 5th. Fine, I'm the quickest car on the track by about a second a lap, so no problem. BUT - by the time we get around to corner ... (I can't remember the turn numbers at Catalunya; the slow left-hander that's after the DRS Zone in real-life F1, with the big, red, paint on the outside of the corner) ... by the time we get around to that corner - I decide to take a run up the inside of 3rd place to slip by him under braking. This is a standard move that happens in real-life at this corner all the time (in fact, if you're REALLY a fan of your racing, you'll remember Ricciardo skinning Kimi Raikonnen here last year). I had a great run at him from the previous corner so I was about half-way along his car when we hit the 50 meter board for braking. I delay my braking by a billionth of a second or so to outbreak him, and pull clearly in front of him, but run a touch deep and fast into the corner. At this stage, any driver with situation awareness who found themselves passed would yield the corner and avoid an accident. They'd clearly been passed! Instead, he just turns into me and WHACK, I get slammed by an AI driver and spun off the track. I'm in 16th place out of 16 and my race is over. Boooooooring.

- So, the feedback (to reiterate): "the AI drivers need to work harder to avoid accidents". THis is partially about realism, and partially about playability. If you can't race in packs, the game is just really boring, because you're either way out in front effectively setting hot-laps, or you're in the middle of a pack of racers worried about where the next stupid contact is going to come from to ruin your race.

- This extends, in particular, to the way AI drivers approach corners when behind you. When I'm trailing another driver (AI in PCars, or human in iRacing), you get to learn their braking points, and you are careful not to ruin both your days by slamming into them from behind as you brake from 200KM/H for a first gear hairpin at the end of a straight! You brake a little early, or you at least position your car so you can avoid them if there is an issue. I can happily say that I have been able to NOT slam into the back of AI cars - and I'm careful about it, because I learned my racing habits of games like F1 and iRacing where contact has PROPER implications. But the PCars AI drivers have none of this behaviour. If their braking point is later than yours, when they're behind you, they just slam into the back of you.

- An example for this: In the same example of Catalunya above, I am the quickest car through Sector 1 by about 5/10ths of a second. But my braking point for corner one (just post the 100m board) seems to be earlier than the AIs brake. I don't get why their point is so different (I'm clearly faster my way through the corner and sector!), but hey, if they want to be slow by braking too late in corner 1, fine. But as we come into turn 1, if they are at all close behind me, after I brake, then just slam into my gearbox as we hit the point where I'm about to turn, and the end of my braking. (well, NEARLY the end of my braking - I trail brake into T1 there, but you get the picture).

- So, for the feedback one last time (to reiterate): "the AI drivers need to work harder to avoid accidents". Sick of having bad AI ruin my races, and of all the things on this list, this is probably the thing that limits the life span of this otherwise great game the most!

- losing time: in F1 games, there is an excellent realism feature in time-limited sessions (like practice and qualy); when you 'retire to pit box' or 'go back to pits', the game advances time to simulate the time it would have taken you to drive back to the Pits. Ths is a pretty important feature, otherwise every time you mess up in qualy you just hit 'return to pit box', and you're magically beamed back, like time never passed! It's really jarring and takes away from the immersion.

- the final point of feedback on realism is car damage: while cosmetically damage looks great in PCars, it really makes the game feel like an arcade racer, not a Sim. When I first played the game I jumped straight into an Audi R8 on Laguna Seca, just coz it's my fave track and one of my fave cars and I wanted to play around to get my screen setup properly (see FOV points above!). As I was getting used to the handling model (which I think in general in PCars is abolutely OUSTANDINGLY amazing) I wound up in the wall quite a bit. I actually went and checked settings, under the impression that I must have had damage turned off! I was slammed into walls and not much was happening! So I got into a Formula A and drove it into a wall as fast as I could at Watkins Glen ... um, sure, the wheels game off, but that was it. Really, guys? Have you seen how those cars disintegrate under heavy contract. If you hit walls in other games with good damage simulation (especially iRacing, here), your are cooked. I could bump and scrape and hit and knock into opponents in PCars and be fine. And, most frustratingly, bad AI opponents can hit each other and still keep going just fine. This is even in disciplines like karting and Formula Rookie where the cars are pretty sensitive IRL. Really, the damage needs to be amped up, really significantly. You should be punished for hitting walls, punished for hitting cars, and in general expected to not bump into things! (see points above about HUD integration of damage).


4) A FEW LITTLE THINGS:

- audio in pit-box: super weird, guys!! WHen I'm sat in my pit box and multiple cars are driving past on their way out, it sounds absolutely ridiculous! Like the game can only generate about two engine's worth of noise or something. I'm not an audio guy so I don't have a very good language for this (maybe someone can post below and describe this better), but I promise that if you just load up a session and sit in the pit box and wait for cars to drive past you, you'll know what I mean

- auto-drive in pits: it's a really shame that auto-drive takes over when you enter and exit the pits. Again, it just takes me out of the realistic moment of feeling like I'm in control of the car. iRacing includes (for cars where it's really on them) a 'pit limiter' button to toggle the pit limiter and keep you below the speed limit, but in general it's up to you to get yourself in and out of the pits. I'd really like to see players put back in control of pit stops like that. Because, after all, it's meant to simulate the driving experiece!!

- career mode depth: ABOUT BLOODY TIME someone did what you guys did: 'treated drivers like athletes'. It's not about levelling up, it's about leaping in wherever you want and forging a racing career. Love it. BUT, there are a few things missing from career mode that make it too shallow to hold interest for long periods. If you play FIFA or (the greatest sports simulation of all time) Football Manager, you can go back and look at all the players stats from all seasons. AI teams and players in those games are not just names above a car, they are 'real' people with different skills and qualities. I would love to see the year-on-year history of the teams and drivers I'm racing against, and for those people and drivers to be 'permanent' in the game (even if procedurally generated when I first start a career, in terms of names and skills etc). ...When I go from Superkart to Formula ROokie - I am asking myself "who are the great drivers in this comp? Who won this last year? How did my team do? How are we expected to do this year?". In sports sims, it's not always about winning. When I took over Monaco in FIFA (gawd, I'm a nerd), my objective was NOT to win - it was to qualify for Europe. So when I join up with Torque Riders - what's my objective? And how will success be measured? And who are our (and my) rivals? And when I sign back up for a second season, how are those objectives changing? It was really deflating after I built this amazing competition up over a season with an AI driver called James Rustles in Superkarts that, when I re-signed for next season, he was just gone!! 'Bringing the world to life' in career modes in sporting games is NOT about a fake twitter stream (sorry!), it's about feeling like your actions matter, the other AI teams and people are real, and the 'world' remembers what happens year-on-year. I think all the mechanics are in there, but the execution needs some serious tweaking in order to really give it longevity. In partcular, it needs the teams and AI players to be 'real' entities with different skills and abilities, and to be able to look back at the competitions for drivers and constructors year on year in each discipline and see who's good, who's rubbish, and where I'm aiming to be! That would be a career mode in a driving game that really changed the game.



So - wow - what an epic. I hope this post is taken in the spirit it's meant. I love Project Cars - I was super excited about it coming out, pre-ordered it, have been playing solidly since it came out. I think you've done an amazing job on so many levels - but the above feedback is designed to help take the game to an even higher level. Given how many of the core mechanics are brilliant (the handling, the setups, the concept behind career mode etc) I think this game could become part of a franchise that redefines racing games, but I don't think that potential will be realised unless the above types of things are taken seriously.

Thanks so much for taking the time to read all this, and I hope it's been useful.

I'm off to Donnington, now, to win me a seat in the next Formula.

SmokinLion
17-05-2015, 14:09
"- losing time: in F1 games, there is an excellent realism feature in time-limited sessions (like practice and qualy); when you 'retire to pit box' or 'go back to pits', the game advances time to simulate the time it would have taken you to drive back to the Pits. Ths is a pretty important feature, otherwise every time you mess up in qualy you just hit 'return to pit box', and you're magically beamed back, like time never passed! It's really jarring and takes away from the immersion. "

this is also so ridiculous from a game calls itself simulatior. I just had a practice session where I blew up the engine, I pressed back to pit then drive and I was again on the track without losing any second from the remaining session time. They fixed my car faster then an eye blink. Time simulation was already in Colin McRae Rally on Playstation 15 years ago!!!

PostBox981
06-06-2015, 19:56
Hi Eppaligy,

well done, that was quite a bit of work to write this post. I also take simracing quite serious, even if not as serious as you. In my case, itīs a matter of time. Well, I donīt race at a 100% AI as Iīm not fast enough, but quite as you I am simrace-addicted since Grand Prix by Geoff Crammond. And quite like you I like to have it all as realistic and accurate as possible.

I agree with you in all the above Points, as far as I am concerned. I too love this game and if I had the time I would Play it 24/7. Great work, SMS!

As the community has had a word on the development of this game, I was very astonished to find that you canīt save multiple Setups. Did These guys never mention it, never try it out? Saving multiple Setups even is no Problem in GT Legends which was published 10 years ago. And as far as I remember, it was possible in Grand Prix II as well, correct me if Iīm wrong. Even worse: You Change a value in order to try whether this has the effect you hope and you have to save this BEFORE going on the track and finding out whether it works. So you always have to Keep in mind what that value was before, just in case you have to Change it back.

The second disappointment to me was the automatic steering in the pit box. As pCars wants to be the best and most realistic Simulation ever, I was sure it would be a 100% up to me to break early enough at the pit entry, push the Speed limiter and find my own pit. This was even better in F1 2010/2012, though not perfect there. And I must admit, as you drive many different cars of different Teams in pCars, my pit would have to be highlighted somehow (which would not look realistic), otherwise I wouldnīt find my way... BUT: I still hope it will be implemented one day, as this is an important part of the Illusion.

So, thank you for this very detailed post and I Keep fingers crossed the devīs will read this carefully.

Cheers
Frank

Ian Bell
06-06-2015, 20:14
Hi Eppaligy,

well done, that was quite a bit of work to write this post. I also take simracing quite serious, even if not as serious as you. In my case, itīs a matter of time. Well, I donīt race at a 100% AI as Iīm not fast enough, but quite as you I am simrace-addicted since Grand Prix by Geoff Crammond. And quite like you I like to have it all as realistic and accurate as possible.

I agree with you in all the above Points, as far as I am concerned. I too love this game and if I had the time I would Play it 24/7. Great work, SMS!

As the community has had a word on the development of this game, I was very astonished to find that you canīt save multiple Setups. Did These guys never mention it, never try it out? Saving multiple Setups even is no Problem in GT Legends which was published 10 years ago. And as far as I remember, it was possible in Grand Prix II as well, correct me if Iīm wrong. Even worse: You Change a value in order to try whether this has the effect you hope and you have to save this BEFORE going on the track and finding out whether it works. So you always have to Keep in mind what that value was before, just in case you have to Change it back.

The second disappointment to me was the automatic steering in the pit box. As pCars wants to be the best and most realistic Simulation ever, I was sure it would be a 100% up to me to break early enough at the pit entry, push the Speed limiter and find my own pit. This was even better in F1 2010/2012, though not perfect there. And I must admit, as you drive many different cars of different Teams in pCars, my pit would have to be highlighted somehow (which would not look realistic), otherwise I wouldnīt find my way... BUT: I still hope it will be implemented one day, as this is an important part of the Illusion.

So, thank you for this very detailed post and I Keep fingers crossed the devīs will read this carefully.

Cheers
Frank

It won't happen Frank. Any game that can allow contact with a human gets a higher PEGI rating.

Our options. Make them 'ghost humans and allow you to driver through them', that would look terrible.
'Make them acrobats who summersault out of the way...'

Think it through in detail. This isn't a realism call. We don't want to restrict our audience with a 12 plus or worse rating.

Ian Bell
06-06-2015, 20:15
It won't happen Frank. Any game that can allow contact with a human gets a higher PEGI rating.

Our options. Make them 'ghost humans and allow you to driver through them', that would look terrible.
'Make them acrobats who summersault out of the way...'

Think it through in detail. This isn't a realism call. We don't want to restrict our audience with a 12 plus or worse rating.

On setups, yes we'll add the feature for multiple saves. Just because it's not here does not mean it wasn't 'asked for'. One trillion things were 'asked for'. We had a game to ship.

We made GT Legends BTW.

Reality.

bmanic
06-06-2015, 20:32
Our options. Make them 'ghost humans and allow you to driver through them', that would look terrible.


No it wouldn't. It's been done before and is PERFECTLY acceptable. In fact, it's the only smart way of doing it (iRacing does it for instance). And it is one hundred million times better than the current auto-pitstop which RIPS you violently out of the immersion.

.. I need more beer.

jgaganas
06-06-2015, 20:38
No it wouldn't. It's been done before and is PERFECTLY acceptable. In fact, it's the only smart way of doing it (iRacing does it for instance). And it is one hundred million times better than the current auto-pitstop which RIPS you violently out of the immersion.

.. I need more beer.

What about green blooded dinosaurs?

Jokes aside, "go through" (ghosts) seems pretty acceptable.

NemethR
06-06-2015, 21:01
Any game that can allow contact with a human gets a higher PEGI rating.

Who cares about PEGI anyway?!

Roger Prynne
06-06-2015, 21:38
We do.....

Johnny_91
06-06-2015, 22:00
It won't happen Frank. Any game that can allow contact with a human gets a higher PEGI rating.

Our options. Make them 'ghost humans and allow you to driver through them', that would look terrible.
'Make them acrobats who summersault out of the way...'

Think it through in detail. This isn't a realism call. We don't want to restrict our audience with a 12 plus or worse rating.

It would be way better, than it is now. In GTR2 it was the same as you discribed, Ian. There where "Ghosthumans", where allow you to drive trough them and for me personally it wasn`t bothering me. Look it from the standpoint of realism: You want to simulate to drive trough the pits and then you also have to be carefull as in reallife. I know there are some "crashkids" out there who first wanna try to hit the "humans" in the pits, if this feature is coming, but the solution for this are the "Ghosthumans". And i think it doesn`t seems to be difficult to include this in the game. It would be much much to conduce to realism, even if the pitcrew is a "ghostcrew".

This is the only feature, that momentarily holds me back, to simulate my "own" championship, with pre-season testing, trackdays and the season itself.

Please, please, get this feature in, in the future.

mister dog
06-06-2015, 23:25
Who cares about PEGI anyway?!

Good question. Are infants and toddlers seen as potential customers?

Roger Prynne
06-06-2015, 23:26
No but they could be watching and even playing.

mister dog
07-06-2015, 00:04
No but they could be watching and even playing.

Would explain why so many are complaining about the online destruction derby's :D

Next Pegi rating is 7, how would that change the outlook of PCARS? If that means freak accidents in the pit lane and modest scenes of nudity on the grid i'm all for it.

Roger Prynne
07-06-2015, 00:12
Would explain why so many are complaining about the online destruction derby's :D

Next Pegi rating is 7, how would that change the outlook of PCARS? If that means freak accidents in the pit lane and modest scenes of nudity on the grid i'm all for it.

Yeah well we all know that is caused by mainly kids.

And have you got a virtual sex fantasy as you are always going on about it?

mister dog
07-06-2015, 00:21
Yeah well we all know that is caused by mainly kids.

And have you got a virtual sex fantasy as you are always going on about it?
You have good observational skills! I was indeed referring to the added bonus of grid girls there.
I just don't see why there should be limitations on what can be implemented based on a Pegi 3 rating, as most people that buy the game wouldn't give it any thought to begin with, and you won't see toddlers going to game stores to purchase games themselves neither.

Ryzza5
07-06-2015, 02:32
I'd also much rather be in control during pit stops and ghost through pit crew members. When leaving the pits at the beginning of practice or qualy the cars often ghost through each other already in any case.
In concert with this I'd like to have a way to set pit strategy options after leaving the lobby and before starting the race. During loading would be ideal if possible, otherwise similar to Race 07. Host could set an option to disable it for quick races. In the lobby I'm just not in that frame of mind yet to make those decisions, plus there's always the chance of the host changing cars/tracks.

Jesse Fahrenkrog
07-06-2015, 03:07
PEGI????

http://i.imgur.com/JfOOHR9.jpg

Lars Rosenquist
07-06-2015, 07:16
Next Pegi rating is 7, how would that change the outlook of PCARS? If that means freak accidents in the pit lane and modest scenes of nudity on the grid i'm all for it.Let's go all the way to PEGI 18: Realistic ragdoll physics, blood, dismemberment and of course lots of swearing for the pit crew and race engineer.

This could add a few new trophies too: (Bronze) Get a DQ for killing a pit engineer. (Silver) Make a pit engineer do a 720 degree flip by running over him. (Gold) Get kicked from the team for killing the entire pit crew in one swoop. The last one will also mean permadeath on your career profile because you will be sent to the nuthouse and/or jail.

(only joking of course :P ;) :D)

Jack-NL
07-06-2015, 08:47
On setups, yes we'll add the feature for multiple saves. Just because it's not here does not mean it wasn't 'asked for'. One trillion things were 'asked for'. We had a game to ship.

We made GT Legends BTW.

Reality.

Here the answer to all stupid remarks if we the testers didn't find and mention a bug or a missing option !!
lots of reported bugs and asked options are fixed or added on the way to release and yeah I know this is also a must have but .....

mister dog
07-06-2015, 10:29
Let's go all the way to PEGI 18: Realistic ragdoll physics, blood, dismemberment and of course lots of swearing for the pit crew and race engineer.

This could add a few new trophies too: (Bronze) Get a DQ for killing a pit engineer. (Silver) Make a pit engineer do a 720 degree flip by running over him. (Gold) Get kicked from the team for killing the entire pit crew in one swoop. The last one will also mean permadeath on your career profile because you will be sent to the nuthouse and/or jail.

(only joking of course :P ;) :D)

Visionary! This is what might truly distinguish PCARS from it's competition, i bet Dan Greenawalt would never think of that. Ian; take note please :D

DragonSyr
07-06-2015, 12:08
Let's go all the way to PEGI 18: Realistic ragdoll physics, blood, dismemberment and of course lots of swearing for the pit crew and race engineer.

This could add a few new trophies too: (Bronze) Get a DQ for killing a pit engineer. (Silver) Make a pit engineer do a 720 degree flip by running over him. (Gold) Get kicked from the team for killing the entire pit crew in one swoop. The last one will also mean permadeath on your career profile because you will be sent to the nuthouse and/or jail.

(only joking of course :P ;) :D)

beyond joking,

pit crew accidents is in formula 1 2011 and 12-13-14 (codemasters ....pegi 3 )

and the cars crash in the pits and manual pits from entering , drivethrough if you miss your spot , to exit . No one has complained for this ...(you need to drive realistic.....) why you pass those futures as problem i can not understand..
this is a simulator and not arcade...

and all problems can be solved with 2 modes (REALISTIC with full futures and ARCADE for infants) SO SIMPLE.

edit: derkanzler (below) says that i talk about for pitcrew in 2012

PostBox981
07-06-2015, 12:13
Ian,

thank you for your reply. Honestly, I never looked at it from the PEGI side... Strange enough I believe to remember a Scene from F1 2012 when I entered the pits, the car automatically went to its pit and as I forgot to break (Engineer: "Start breaking now!") the car went over its mark, the jackman was pushed back a Yard or two and the pit stop took a Little longer. PEGI? Or did I simply have a nice dream???
I also believe to have seen a YouTube Video BEFORE the pCars release, in which I saw the whole pit Crew changing tyres - not only the jackman alone, waiting for the noise of the wheel gun to stop.

I am aware you guys produced GT Legends as well, so the more I was wondering why multi setups is not implemented. I have no clue about programming but thought things like that is where you start from. Anyway, good to know this will come in the future.

Of course I expected EVERYTHING to be better than in F1 2012 (not even a proper Simulation, I know) - innocent me!!! Now I find that just some Details werenīt made too bad in the Codemasters game. Anyway, Overall pCars IS much better, no question. I will go on having fun with it and Keep myself pacient, looking Forward on more things to come. Up to now, the permanent patches let me hope it will all become true one day. F1 2012 had exactly one patch as far as I remember, after that Codemasters concentrated on the follow up title... no comment.

Cheers
Frank

Ian Bell
07-06-2015, 12:17
Ian,

thank you for your reply. Honestly, I never looked at it from the PEGI side... Strange enough I believe to remember a Scene from F1 2012 when I entered the pits, the car automatically went to its pit and as I forgot to break (Engineer: "Start breaking now!") the car went over its mark, the jackman was pushed back a Yard or two and the pit stop took a Little longer. PEGI? Or did I simply have a nice dream???
I also believe to have seen a YouTube Video BEFORE the pCars release, in which I saw the whole pit Crew changing tyres - not only the jackman alone, waiting for the noise of the wheel gun to stop.

I am aware you guys produced GT Legends as well, so the more I was wondering why multi setups is not implemented. I have no clue about programming but thought things like that is where you start from. Anyway, good to know this will come in the future.

Of course I expected EVERYTHING to be better than in F1 2012 (not even a proper Simulation, I know) - innocent me!!! Now I find that just some Details werenīt made too bad in the Codemasters game. Anyway, Overall pCars IS much better, no question. I will go on having fun with it and Keep myself pacient, looking Forward on more things to come. Up to now, the permanent patches let me hope it will all become true one day. F1 2012 had exactly one patch as far as I remember, after that Codemasters concentrated on the follow up title... no comment.

Cheers
Frank

The whole animated pitcrew are on the way Frank. If I'm frank (see what I did there!), they're a nightmare to animate for all cars.

I honestly don't know why we don't have multiple setups. There were limitations on file size storage for consoles but the files are tiny. I've put it on my list.

Codemasters are simulating a set of animations where the wheels are always in the same place, same size. Where the fuel nozzle is always in the same place and same size. Think about the work involved when every car is different, is jacked up differently etc etc.

Gomoto
07-06-2015, 12:27
Great Post and great Game!
My top priorities:
Setup saving and importing
Manual pit lane control
Save customized control settings when switching controllers

PostBox981
07-06-2015, 12:36
Ian,

told ya Iīm gonna be Patient now. I Understand the difference between developing an F1-game or a racing Simulator that works from Karts to LMP1. Thanks for confirming a coming up pit Crew. I am really looking Forward on upcoming patches.

Frank

Ian Bell
07-06-2015, 12:38
I hate to ask but can someone bullet point OP's main points? He's taken the time to write so much and I feel a bit guilty to not have the time to read it all in order to respond.

Sessionerror
07-06-2015, 12:43
I honestly don't know why we don't have multiple setups. There were limitations on file size storage for consoles but the files are tiny. I've put it on my list.


When you check that, maybe there's even a possibility to save the FFB settings separate from the tuning setup? So one could change the car specific FFB in the garage and save if for all the tracks without overwriting the track specific setup ;)

stux
07-06-2015, 13:51
When you check that, maybe there's even a possibility to save the FFB settings separate from the tuning setup? So one could change the car specific FFB in the garage and save if for all the tracks without overwriting the track specific setup ;)

A nightmare trying to work out if you have your current FFB on this car for that track in this random lobby race at the moment.

Ian Bell
07-06-2015, 13:56
Another very important point I missed guys.

Manufacturers will not give you a license if their cars can be seen to be 'injuring' people in any way.

mcarver2000
07-06-2015, 14:04
As a trade-off at least let us export a setup and re-import it. This shouldn't require a major re-write of the code for managing multiple setups in the game. We could at least export multiple setups and import the ones we want (e.g., wet, endurance, sprint, qualifying, etc.)


...
I honestly don't know why we don't have multiple setups. There were limitations on file size storage for consoles but the files are tiny. I've put it on my list.
...

DragonSyr
07-06-2015, 15:41
Another very important point I missed guys.

Manufacturers will not give you a license if their cars can be seen to be 'injuring' people in any way.

we speak about push and shift from their positions (pitcrew only and just for loosing time for your error) :)

edit: we dont need broken bones and blood :) :)
if someone need this can buy carmageddon

Johnny_91
07-06-2015, 15:44
Another very important point I missed guys.

Manufacturers will not give you a license if their cars can be seen to be 'injuring' people in any way.

That problem would be solved with "ghostcrews" in the pits, where you can drive trough.

jgaganas
07-06-2015, 15:48
That problem would be solved with "ghostcrews" in the pits, where you can drive trough.

:ghost:

ermo
07-06-2015, 15:49
Dear Dev Team,

Firstly - thanks for an amazing game. I'm thoroughly enjoying playing it. You can feel the love that's been poured into this thing. I was not part of the WMD dev process at all, but followed development closely. Have been pumped for the game and am really getting a kick out of it. Thanks for all your hard work bringing out this product. Love it!

(...)


Hi Eppaligy -- great first post. :)

If I may, can I just suggest a few visual changes to make it easier to read your post? It's pretty, er, dense to look at right now. And presentation does help you get your point across (or so I keep telling myself).

Here's an example of what I mean:



1) SOME NOTICED BUGS:
To start with the easy stuff - some bugs. Some of these may have been mentioned elsewhere, but here's my quick list:
- Career mode, Shifter Karts, Glencairn --> during the auto-drive when starting from the outside track (odd number qualifying), you get auto-driven into a wall and can't do anything about it until the lights turn green. (it's okay, I raced my way back to first ;-)
- Career mode, Superkarts, season 1 race 1 (oulton park) --> AI drivers (though not me) seem to hit an invisible object every time they come around the first corner just after start-finish line, near pit exit. SUPER weird. They hit it, their Kart gets flipped up in the air, then they just kinda drive on (with the front of their car wrecked). At first, I thought I was smashing their lap times; then I realised they were actually hitting something every lap. Oops.
- On a number of occasions in Shifter Karts, I would complete first lap of the race and the laps wouldn't register. I'd be stuck on lap 1 and drop from 1st to last. I couldn't see a reason it was happening, and if it WAS because of a penalty, I certainly didn't receive any notices. I had to restart the race and the problem would fix itself. It probably happened about 1 in 8 or 9 times. Haven't seen the problem replicate in other race disciplines, yet.
- HUD customisation: this screen effectively doesn't work (killer - because the idea is AMAZING!). If I click on, say, my split times (located by default at the top right of center screen) with the intent of moving it somewhere else, it just moves itself to near the rear view mirror, and can't be moved elsewhere. See below for some thoughts on this feature in general, however the bug belongs in this list.


versus, say:



1. Some bugs I noticed:

To start with the easy stuff - some bugs. Some of these may have been mentioned elsewhere, but here's my quick list:

Career mode, Shifter Karts, Glencairn -- auto-driven into a wall?
During the auto-drive when starting from the outside track (odd number qualifying), you get auto-driven into a wall and can't do anything about it until the lights turn green. (it's okay, I raced my way back to first ;-)

Career mode, Superkarts, season 1 race 1 (oulton park) -- AI appear to hit an invisible object in the first corner?
AI drivers (though not me) seem to hit an invisible object every time they come around the first corner just after start-finish line, near pit exit. SUPER weird. They hit it, their Kart gets flipped up in the air, then they just kinda drive on (with the front of their car wrecked). At first, I thought I was smashing their lap times; then I realised they were actually hitting something every lap. Oops.

Shifter Karts -- laps occasionally not registering af the end of first lap?
On a number of occasions in Shifter Karts, I would complete first lap of the race and the laps wouldn't register. I'd be stuck on lap 1 and drop from 1st to last. I couldn't see a reason it was happening, and if it WAS because of a penalty, I certainly didn't receive any notices. I had to restart the race and the problem would fix itself. It probably happened about 1 in 8 or 9 times. Haven't seen the problem replicate in other race disciplines, yet.

HUD customisation -- this screen effectively doesn't work?
This one is a real killer - because the idea is AMAZING!. If I click on, say, my split times (located by default at the top right of center screen) with the intent of moving it somewhere else, it just moves itself to near the rear view mirror, and can't be moved elsewhere. See below for some thoughts on this feature in general, however the bug belongs in this list.


Happy to have you on board mate! :yes:

Blvd69
07-06-2015, 17:52
Fix the bugs....fix the pits.....fix the A.I. with AMD Graphic Cards!
Blvd69 has spoken...now fix the game!
Please don't let this game turn into another N.F.S.W. filled with Bugs and Admins who didn't care about the good of the community.
Take care and thats my honest Opinion on this topic.
Website is....
http://blvd69crew.weebly.com

http://blvd69crew.weebly.com/uploads/3/1/9/4/31949407/2932776_orig.png

Ian Bell
07-06-2015, 17:56
Fix the bugs....fix the pits.....fix the A.I. with AMD Graphic Cards!
Blvd69 has spoken...now fix the game!
Please don't let this game turn into another N.F.S.W. filled with Bugs and Admins who didn't care about the good of the community.
Take care and thats my honest Opinion on this topic.
Website is....
http://blvd69crew.weebly.com

http://blvd69crew.weebly.com/uploads/3/1/9/4/31949407/2932776_orig.png

Blvd, shrink or remove that graphic. It's excessively big. I find myself missing your text.

Sankyo
07-06-2015, 18:13
No it wouldn't. It's been done before and is PERFECTLY acceptable. In fact, it's the only smart way of doing it (iRacing does it for instance). And it is one hundred million times better than the current auto-pitstop which RIPS you violently out of the immersion.

.. I need more beer.
Howzabout manual pitting where you're only allowed to drive in an invisible 'funnel', i.e. you drive manually but if you get too far off the line it will bump into an invisible barrier. That means that you can't drive into other teams' pit crews nor into your own, because they are outside the allowed area. Not sure if this is the right section for this though, I'll look whether there's a auto-pit/manual pit thread floating around...

bmanic
07-06-2015, 19:52
I prefer the ghost approach. Anything other becomes "pushover" and drags you out of the immersion. If you enter pits with a damaged car and you are fighting for seconds, it SHOULD be difficult to line up the car correctly and maintain proper pit speed. I think all mistakes and crashes should be allowed within pits. Just make it impossible to drive over any animated characters. Make them wireframe ghosts or something so that it is immediately clear that no virtual harm is done.

@Ian: good point about the license restrictions and harming virtual characters! As I recall that's the main reason Rockstar has to use fictional licenses.

DragonSyr
07-06-2015, 20:28
the codemaster's f1 20xx manual pit system is perfect .at least the driver takes the feeling of the pits ,and is a critical procedure in the race with time penalty for fault actions with autoprocedures . it is not freedom but is very very good.

DragonSyr
07-06-2015, 20:35
And after that (pits) comes the matter with crash physics.... needs lot of work

Terrell Olvera
08-06-2015, 01:52
Endurance racing is incredibly more exciting that I expected it to be. The Gran Turismo endurance races were boring and pointless (except for trophy hunting). Then I did Le Mans in pcars (GT3) and got 2nd place due to a botched pit strategy (your first real pit stop probably shouldn't be done in the heat of battle). The experience was incredible, I was totally "in the zone" and focused on the race. The next time around I won in a GT4 car, with proper pit strategy and a setup honed through a few practice laps. It really gives you an appreciation for what drivers go through in that race.

I'll be honest, this is the first game that made me want to delve deeper into vehicle dynamics. So much so that I bought the Carroll Smith book "Tune to Win."

My feedback will be limited to my two Le Mans experiences:

1. Currently the logic for blue flag warnings do not seem to take closing speed into account. By the time you see the blue flag warning the prototypes are already on top of you (I think the current system works fine for GT3/4 cars).

2. The AI has trouble passing if you don't go out of your way to make room for them (learned my lesson after the first Le Mans race). I know the AI has already been improved internally and the 1.4 and 1.5 patches will reflect that, so I will have to revisit this at that time. The "corner ownage" feature which was previously discussed sounds like a major win.

Even in its current state, I have had better races with the AI than people in random public rooms. One reason I feel that AI is important is that people online don't necessarily want to race the same things that you do, just look at the servers, it's always the same car/track combos.

3. Saving the game mid-race would be incredible.

4. The rearview mirror (virtual) is too dark, this only compounds the blue flag issue because you really can't see the faster cars approaching without hitting the "look behind" button.

5. Different color headlights would help to differentiate between GT and LMP cars. As it is, everything looks the same, which again compounds the blue flag issue. If you have another GT4 car 5 seconds behind and you look back and see another set of headlights, you don't know which kind of car it is, so you could potentially find yourself entering the fast right-hander into Indianapolis only to have an LMP1 car slam into you at an incredible speed (possibly fixed with the AI changes, but it would still be nice to have some differentiation).

6. There has already been enough feedback on setup changes we would like to see (multiple setups, importing setups, etc.), but I think it would be nice to allow for some setup changes during the pitstops, aside from just tires and fuel...unless that is already a thing, in which case I will make sure to use it on my next Le Mans. At a minimum aero adjustments would be nice and would allow for adjustments to be made to compensate for weather changes (night & rain).

7. I lowered the tire pressure as far as it would go and could still not manage to keep the tires warm in the Aston Martin GT4. I am still a rookie tuner and have much to learn, so maybe that is more ignorance on my part than something to be changed in the game (offering even lower tire pressures).

8. The pit-engineer seemed to be asleep during both of my Le Mans races. I don't remember him saying anything, and if he did, it was not done as frequently as I would have liked. The best solution would be the ability to adjust the frequency of engineer communication (like the Dirt games do with co-driver communication).

9. Motec screen available on the HUD. Maybe it already is in other views, but I use the helmet cam and don't *think* it's a choice, but I could be wrong. It is hard to see oil and water temperature in-car when helmet blur is enabled and I like the effect. I know I could also use one of the dash apps but it would be nice to have on the HUD.

10. Oil temperature, water temperature and fuel level would be awesome to have on the telemetry screen. I always find myself switching views to see how much fuel I have left. Average fuel consumption of the previous lap would be helpful as well.

That sums up everything I can think of at the moment with regard to endurance racing. Both experiences were absolutely epic and I look forward to enjoying more of them. The team really did an outstanding job, many of my friends have purchased the game (all platforms) and are constantly telling me how much they enjoy it. The community events make it easy to compare times against each other, regardless of platform.

*******************************************************************************

However, since I'm on a roll I would like to see tire pressure and suspension motion added to the API so we can do more post-race analysis with pcars profiler (it would really help with suspension setup). If I'm not mistaken, adding suspension information to the API would allow SimVibe owners to enjoy individual wheel effects. I can't confirm this as I only have a single Buttkicker, but if true, as soon as it's added I'll upgrade to a 4 transducer setup.

Umer Ahmad
08-06-2015, 02:53
^excellent feedback, I'm sure Ian's team will consider these seriously. Great write-up

GenBrien
08-06-2015, 03:00
I agree on all the points above. If I may add to your #5, having AIs flashing lights to you as they lap you would be awsome (maybe having that effect tied to the blue flag trigger)

Eric Rowland
08-06-2015, 03:55
An excellent thread...thanks to many of you.

Roger Prynne
08-06-2015, 10:09
Well put Terrell.... we need more guys like you.

PostBox981
08-06-2015, 18:26
Unbelievable! This game is already stunning, but reading in this Forum Shows you so many great ideas of how to improve it. Itīs only the small things sometimes that could bring that much improvement to it! Iīm afraid, the devs could work on improvements for the next 5 years or so without ever getting finished. :-)

So just one single Thing Iīd like to ask for: Donīt ever make the Codemasters mistake - if you ever start to develop a pCars II, make sure that the playerīs Profile and his Setups can be imported from pCars I. Thatīs what I hated the Codemasters F1-Series for, they call it career, but every year you have to start from a blank page.

kevinbuchholz
08-06-2015, 19:29
Excellent thread! I too came from iRacing and was decent no alien by any means, but just outside the top 1000 when I was serious about it. I picked up Project Cars because I wanted to be able to pick up and race against AI at my leisure as opposed to making the scheduled SOF race on iRacing every week. I really do enjoy the handling and physics when it is right. One small point of contention that I have is contact with the AI. In iRacing, I had many close battles with people where we maybe bumped a bit and rubbed fenders lap after lap and had intense (friendly) fights for position. I'm not talking about door slamming and ramming, but just close respectful racing... when this happens with an AI car, they almost become magnetic.

For example, hard braking into a slow corner, maybe I'm behind an AI car and just tap the rear bumper, not ram the car, just a mild tap under heavy braking, it seems that we are suddenly on ice and we stop braking and just carry on straight ahead regardless of steering or braking input. The same happens with side contact, just a slight tap to the side or a rub and both cars suddenly become stuck together and move in an odd trajectory off track as if there is suddenly no traction anywhere. To be clear, I'm not talking about severe contact, but it seems that even just a rub becomes an off-track excursion for both cars.

RomKnight
13-06-2015, 21:20
I just start re-reading this...

Did I get it right when I've read that what won't happen is manual control to pits?

My suggestion, take the animations out if the problem is having them (ghost of not). Who cares? Especially if until now manual control of the car was said to be done "later"

I hope i've misread something. Manual control is MUCH MORE important to everyone.

Vitor Costa
13-06-2015, 23:50
I just start re-reading this...

Did I get it right when I've read that what won't happen is manual control to pits?

My suggestion, take the animations out if the problem is having them (ghost of not). Who cares? Especially if until now manual control of the car was said to be done "later"

I hope i've misread something. Manual control is MUCH MORE important to everyone.

Indeed. It`s one of the points that f**** pCars from many people and it would be nice to get it fixed soon, as the save setups matter. One other thing: we need a decent and proper dedicated server to the leagues. I understand many console relationed things in the way but we need a proper dedicated server for pc please.

RomKnight
14-06-2015, 11:09
Regarding DS there's a thread for that where you can read it is being taken care of. Also multiple setups are coming.

Roger Prynne
14-06-2015, 12:10
Project Cars Dedicated Server Howto (The Howto is WIP)

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22370-Dedicated-Server-HowTo-(Work-in-Progress)

PostBox981
14-06-2015, 12:30
Talking about constructive criticism, thereīs just another small issue annoying me: If in career mode starting a practice or quali session, time counts right as you get there. While the AI goes out to the track, I sit in my car and do some general settings like ffb, differential gear and fuel amount. Not fair. Half an hour of practice isnīt much time to go, and every real team knows how to set these parameters BEFORE the session starts. Once you go on to the race, it is different, race start lineup does not start before you want it to. Thatīs the way I wish it to be for ALL sessions.

Just another small bit - but I guess devīs could change this in a minute.

NemethR
14-06-2015, 16:12
Talking about constructive criticism, thereīs just another small issue annoying me: If in career mode starting a practice or quali session, time counts right as you get there. While the AI goes out to the track, I sit in my car and do some general settings like ffb, differential gear and fuel amount. Not fair. Half an hour of practice isnīt much time to go, and every real team knows how to set these parameters BEFORE the session starts. Once you go on to the race, it is different, race start lineup does not start before you want it to. Thatīs the way I wish it to be for ALL sessions.

Just another small bit - but I guess devīs could change this in a minute.

In my opimion 30 minues of practice + qualifying must be enough for each and every track in the game, maybe exept the Nordschleife.
Even if you spend 5 minutes tweaking the setup. Not to mention, thqat with stock setup + AI at 100% its still easy to beat them.

I usually skip Practice, and go to straight qualifying.

Nuno Vitoria
14-06-2015, 19:45
As I said before, use ghosts, or else skip the pit animation, but please give human control in the pits! The animation is pure cosmetics, the human control in pits can make you win or loose a race, so a much more important feature.

PostBox981
15-06-2015, 18:59
In my opimion 30 minues of practice + qualifying must be enough for each and every track in the game, maybe exept the Nordschleife.
Even if you spend 5 minutes tweaking the setup. Not to mention, thqat with stock setup + AI at 100% its still easy to beat them.

I usually skip Practice, and go to straight qualifying.

Okay, I admit that youīre a hero and I am a loser. I donīt even always win on AI 80%...

Iīm not talking about the Renault Clio Cup. Once you get to the higher car classes there are so many things that can/must be adjusted, that it takes me plenty of time to find a working setup. At the least for me it is like that, maybe not for everybody. And each time you come out of the pits you start with cold tyres again so it takes you one or two laps before you can really work out the differences to the setup before. On a track which I donīt know I need at least an hour of time to drive constant lap times and have a somewhat working Setup. And thereīs nothing I can do about it.

But all I was pointing out in my post was a matter of fairness between player and AI.

Schnizz58
15-06-2015, 20:06
8. The pit-engineer seemed to be asleep during both of my Le Mans races. I don't remember him saying anything, and if he did, it was not done as frequently as I would have liked. The best solution would be the ability to adjust the frequency of engineer communication (like the Dirt games do with co-driver communication).

9. Motec screen available on the HUD. Maybe it already is in other views, but I use the helmet cam and don't *think* it's a choice, but I could be wrong. It is hard to see oil and water temperature in-car when helmet blur is enabled and I like the effect. I know I could also use one of the dash apps but it would be nice to have on the HUD.

10. Oil temperature, water temperature and fuel level would be awesome to have on the telemetry screen. I always find myself switching views to see how much fuel I have left. Average fuel consumption of the previous lap would be helpful as well.


Oil & water temps would be a great thing for the engineer to tell you about. In my opinion it's not that the engineer doesn't talk enough or that he talks too much. It's that he doesn't say anything useful. It would be much more helpful to me if he could tell me things like: how the car is doing mechanically, fuel consumption, tire wear, approaching weather and when to pit (yes, I realize that he already does the latter but he doesn't do it very well).

MULTIVITZ
19-06-2015, 11:58
The practice session is for a shake down and general warmup of you, if you feel its a tuning session then you maybe unprepared for that track. Previous testing helps, but some players have good skill and manage with what they've got.
When we get a more flexible tune storage system, I will start wet weather tuning. For now I keep myself occupied with tuning and a tiny bit of racing.
My race manager is on leave, divorce or something?

Ronnie Peterson
24-07-2015, 22:42
One trillion things may well have been asked for but creating and saving multiple setups for each car/track should have been number one! Seriously what is the point of all the car setup options without this facility. Until this is resolved the game is simply arcade at best!

TMoney
24-07-2015, 23:09
Manual pits seems to be one of the most requested features (along with multiple setups). Ian I know you feel it will look terrible to have ghosted people in the pits, but we (the racers!) strongly disagree. It would work great and you would only see a ghost if you're trying to create one :). If you're not lined up with the pit crew, fine. When you stop the car auto aligns to the box.

If there's any doubt that it's a bad idea, why don't we create a poll and see what everyone really wants? I'm pretty sure only the guys playing in full arcade mode would want auto pit (if that). To be clear I'm not saying remove it entirely but like in development please give us the option. Or remove it entirely and cut back on unnecessary dev work!

I'm sure you're fully aware the current auto pit system extremely buggy. New DLC cars come out, more problems hitting walls at tracks I've never had an issue with. I bet there wouldn't be any more complaints if we could disable auto pit, because pretty much no one would be using it anymore!

mute71
25-07-2015, 07:44
I agree with manual pitstop. Don't understand the importance of animated pitcrew when i can't drive myself.
Also if the point is that we should not hit the pitcrew and we need to ghost them? Then i wonder why the automatic pitstop do drive through the lollipop man.
Now it seems we have the worst of the worst. Both automatic pitstop and a ghosting lollipop man. (Which i cant stop driving through with my Mustang. Oh Horror... :) )

And it does detract immensly when then automatic pitstop makes me hug the pitwall all the way to my pitbox in my mustang at Hockenheim. If i want to scratch my left side then please let me choose to do that.

Love pCars, however i miss manual pistop. Implement iRacings solution. Its so much more refreshing.

(I just chime in to this thread about pistops. Nothing else.)

Eddie.PND
22-10-2015, 18:59
Hi everybody.

Finally I have found the correct topic about this matter.

A lot of people, particularly coming from GTR2 or rFactor or others advanced sims, are very very annoying. Any setup file manager is totally missing, also it is impossible to manage them using O.S.
To manage setup files is too much important, more in case of different weather conditions, grip or simply to have a dedicated setup for qualifying.

In our community this matter is coming up strongly. Adding others Pcars bugs or limits - first the pit lane auto-driving - some user has begun to consider others sims in the next future.

redruMKO
22-10-2015, 21:15
I never had anything to do with pCars development, but I have developed racing games before.

'Pitting', in general, took maybe 3O% of our development time. More in QA / bug zapping.
Honestly. It is such a massive can of worms. I hope more developers leave it out entirely.

Same thing for the chap saying we had 'correct time repairwork' in Colin McRae, 15 years ago. -That was like changing a character name in a book compared to translating the whole book into another language.

And most of the AI complaints in this thread.... It is amazing! I have never raced alongside AIcars like I can in pCars. So yes, some of the complaints are true, but you have no idea how hard it was to get to this point, and how fragile that balance might be. I'm almost certain that if you made the AI any less aggressive, they would suddenly never overtake you... like in Gran Tourismo.

Eddie.PND
03-11-2015, 12:04
Hi everybody.

Finally I have found the correct topic about this matter.

A lot of people, particularly coming from GTR2 or rFactor or others advanced sims, are very very annoying. Any setup file manager is totally missing, also it is impossible to manage them using O.S.
To manage setup files is too much important, more in case of different weather conditions, grip or simply to have a dedicated setup for qualifying.

In our community this matter is coming up strongly. Adding others Pcars bugs or limits - first the pit lane auto-driving - some user has begun to consider others sims in the next future.


:confused:

cluck
03-11-2015, 12:12
@Eddie.PND - Your points have been made by other users since release so that's probably why nobody has replied, there's nothing new in what you have brought up. That's not a criticism, just an observation :).

Mahjik
03-11-2015, 14:46
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?25889-In-depth-constructive-feedback&p=971550&viewfull=1#post971550

cluck
03-11-2015, 15:12
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?25889-In-depth-constructive-feedback&p=971550&viewfull=1#post971550Ooh, I'd missed that. Cheers Mahjik :).

Eddie.PND
03-11-2015, 15:25
@Eddie.PND - Your points have been made by other users since release so that's probably why nobody has replied, there's nothing new in what you have brought up. That's not a criticism, just an observation :).

I know I was not first user asking about these points. Otherwise they asked many weeks ago but the questions are still without answers. Main problem are still in first day state, more or less.

Our community are working hard to improve Project Cars to build a serious league, and I'm here simply to ask about in the name of community. Most of us are veterans and our benchmark is the good old GTR2. So you can understand how high is our target.

cluck
03-11-2015, 15:31
I know I was not first user asking about these points. Otherwise they asked many weeks ago but the questions are still without answers. Main problem are still in first day state, more or less.

Our community are working hard to improve Project Cars to build a serious league, and I'm here simply to ask about in the name of community. Most of us veterans and our benchmark is the good old GTR2. So you can understand how high is our target.See mahjik's reply :). I wasn't aware of it, I'd missed it (it's easy to miss stuff on here if you're not reading every page every day :)), otherwise I would have pointed you in that direction instead :).

Eddie.PND
03-11-2015, 17:09
See mahjik's reply :). I wasn't aware of it, I'd missed it (it's easy to miss stuff on here if you're not reading every page every day :)), otherwise I would have pointed you in that direction instead :).

No problem guys. My English is very basic, sometimes it is not so easy to avoid misunderstandings.

It is only important that devs are working on it.

cluck
03-11-2015, 17:12
No problem guys. My English is very basic, sometimes it is not so easy to avoid misunderstandings.

It is only important that devs are working on it.Your English is far better than my German ;).

Eddie.PND
27-01-2016, 14:27
After 3 months the questions are still without any answer.

hkraft300
27-01-2016, 15:25
After 3 months the questions are still without any answer.

Regarding what?
The setup system?
I'm pretty confident there won't be any changes to this title.

But there is the setup database online.

artao
27-01-2016, 15:39
Regarding what?
The setup system?
I'm pretty confident there won't be any changes to this title.

But there is the setup database online.

But what about back on page 1 of this thread ...


On setups, yes we'll add the feature for multiple saves

I really don't understand why this hasn't already been implemented. What could possibly be the difficulties there? Too hard to implement? Have to re-write the engine? It would cause too many other bugs?
LOL

Krus Control
27-01-2016, 15:43
It is surprising to me that we don't have the ability to save multiple setups. It really is the most basic thing and it's kind of silly having to settle for one setup.

cluck
27-01-2016, 15:52
But what about back on page 1 of this thread ...



I really don't understand why this hasn't already been implemented. What could possibly be the difficulties there? Too hard to implement? Have to re-write the engine? It would cause too many other bugs?
LOLBack in June, Ian probably fully expected it to be possible to add, but that was just a month post-release. As with other things along the way, plans have had to change and with no further specific news on the subject I wouldn't be surprised if it is not coming. It has already been stated that we are unlikely to see any major new features in the game now.

That is not to say the feature shouldn't be there, it is clear that it is important for a lot of people. Personally, as somebody at the more 'casual' end of the sim-spectrum, I can't say I have noticed its absence.

hkraft300
27-01-2016, 16:11
But what about back on page 1 of this thread ...


There's a lot there. What in particular? Most of what I've read on this thread has been answered/explained since.


I really don't understand why this hasn't already been implemented. What could possibly be the difficulties there? Too hard to implement? Have to re-write the engine? It would cause too many other bugs?
LOL

I don't understand either. But then again, I'm not a developer/coder and I'm not involved with SMS. So I have no idea how the current system is implemented and what's required for a significant change of it.
So you know, I tend not to tell others how to do their job when I have no knowledge of it.
If it hasn't been done already, I'm not holding my breath for it.

Plage
27-01-2016, 16:27
My guess it's very well possible but needs too many recources as not only the code would have to be reworked but also the UI and so on which maybe isn't considered worth the effort as it doesn't brings in any extra money and therefore they may save it up for implementation in PC2. As the current system isn't broken and works I'd rather see them concentrating to weed out real bugs.

DreamsKnight
27-01-2016, 19:09
no no please. i love the game, i written it elsewhere. i hate people who point their attection with anger to secondary things (pitcrew in an automatic pitlane is the funniest one for me)

BUT about setups they are totally indefensible.

disclaimer: the part below is written with ironic intent and not with anger, while maintaining steady my opinion. I write because I would not be misunderstood for my poor english.

i imagine the first meeting:

-what we want do?
-A SIM RACING GAME!
-what we want inside?
-A LOT OF CARS
-and?
-A LOT OF TRACKS
-and?
only one: MULTIPLE SETUPS SAVES
-... naaaaaaaa we don't care about multiple setups. who cares in asim racing cames? they are unnecessary.

i could be stupid, but IMHO in 2015 they had to be in the core of development, not considered as secondary. the lack of this feature IMHO is a big mistake of the design at a preliminary stage. and hey, we have xml files for FFB!!!


my experience, as a CASUAL gamer in the first times:

"ok DK, are at least 15 years you want to try a simulator. this Pcars seems the right choice. if you don't get tired quickly because of the difficulty, it could also be the right time you buy a steering wheel. oh great, menu is flat design, very modern. oh, how many cars! and you don't have to do a stupid career to race the one you want.. oh look, amazing graphics! ok, let's take a look in the scary parts, the setups: how many things, it will be hard. i'm sure i can save them and import/export. it is a sim, sim comunity are great and methodical, i'll found a lot of setups to import. ok. where is the save button? and export one? the button? HEY, WHERE ARE THE BUTTON???? oh f**k, i'm stupid, let me doing some search in the forum"


and honestly i can't understand the contribution of suggestions of WMD members. i don't think that no one said this each day.



in each case, i can survive and i spend ours each day in Pcars. :)

artao
28-01-2016, 06:13
There's a lot there. What in particular? Most of what I've read on this thread has been answered/explained since.

well, I explicitly quoted Ian there. I wasn't referring to the entirely of page 1, just that single post.


I don't understand either. But then again, I'm not a developer/coder and I'm not involved with SMS. So I have no idea how the current system is implemented and what's required for a significant change of it.
So you know, I tend not to tell others how to do their job when I have no knowledge of it.
If it hasn't been done already, I'm not holding my breath for it.


My guess it's very well possible but needs too many recources as not only the code would have to be reworked but also the UI and so on which maybe isn't considered worth the effort as it doesn't brings in any extra money and therefore they may save it up for implementation in PC2. As the current system isn't broken and works I'd rather see them concentrating to weed out real bugs.

Oh good lord <facepalm>
It's adding a load button, and allowing more than one save file. It already saves setups, so the game already knows how to do that. It already loads that save, so the game already knows how to do that too. It can already revert a user setup to default, so there's ALREADY two saves there, thus the game knows how to store and load from multiple setups.
UI wise, they just need a menu of the available saved setups.
The saved setup files appear to be in .bff files (in <YourSteamLibrary>\steamapps\common\pCars\Pakfiles\Vehicles ) ... Perhaps simply saving multiple .bff files and allowing the user to choose which one. Perhaps saving the setup files separate from the .bff file, as an .xml file instead. The game already knows how to read .xml files per car (see Jack Spade's FFB files, which are all .xml, and per-car)
I'm sure if we wanted to deal with the hassle, we could manually swap .bff files in and out. Also, it's already known by modders how to unpack .bff files.
I may not be a professional programmer, but if this is "too complicated" then perhaps their coders need to go back to programming school <end snark> it had to be said. these guys ARE professionals, after all. Saving and loading things is basic programming 101.
I'm sorry, but "we simply can't do it for pCARS because we'd have to re-write too much code" is a pretty lame excuse for not implementing multiple saves.
The reasons to implement multiple setups are numerous. If casual gamers don't want to deal with multiple setups, then I'd think it pretty ulikely that they're going to be doing much setup tweaking to begin with. It is, after all, a pretty technical aspect of racing.
Can't do it for consoles? That's fine, and perhaps a limitation of that platform. But it's no reason to not implement it on the PC end.

EDIT: perhaps the setups are saved in the users .sav file ......... regardless, the above all still applies, since the game knows of two setups and can load them. .. altho I suppose that if you revert to default, you can't reload what you previously had.

BigDad
28-01-2016, 07:17
There's a lot there. What in particular? Most of what I've read on this thread has been answered/explained since.



I don't understand either. But then again, I'm not a developer/coder and I'm not involved with SMS. So I have no idea how the current system is implemented and what's required for a significant change of it.
So you know, I tend not to tell others how to do their job when I have no knowledge of it.
If it hasn't been done already, I'm not holding my breath for it.
Hey kraft . You still using the DS4 as your excuse ,lol .
How's the wheel hunt coming along ?
Talking about feedback , using a wheel will help on that front .
Just being constructive, lol.

cluck
28-01-2016, 11:17
well, I explicitly quoted Ian there. I wasn't referring to the entirely of page 1, just that single post.





Oh good lord <facepalm>
It's adding a load button, and allowing more than one save file. It already saves setups, so the game already knows how to do that. It already loads that save, so the game already knows how to do that too. It can already revert a user setup to default, so there's ALREADY two saves there, thus the game knows how to store and load from multiple setups.
UI wise, they just need a menu of the available saved setups.
The saved setup files appear to be in .bff files (in <YourSteamLibrary>\steamapps\common\pCars\Pakfiles\Vehicles ) ... Perhaps simply saving multiple .bff files and allowing the user to choose which one. Perhaps saving the setup files separate from the .bff file, as an .xml file instead. The game already knows how to read .xml files per car (see Jack Spade's FFB files, which are all .xml, and per-car)
I'm sure if we wanted to deal with the hassle, we could manually swap .bff files in and out. Also, it's already known by modders how to unpack .bff files.
I may not be a professional programmer, but if this is "too complicated" then perhaps their coders need to go back to programming school <end snark> it had to be said. these guys ARE professionals, after all. Saving and loading things is basic programming 101.
I'm sorry, but "we simply can't do it for pCARS because we'd have to re-write too much code" is a pretty lame excuse for not implementing multiple saves.
The reasons to implement multiple setups are numerous. If casual gamers don't want to deal with multiple setups, then I'd think it pretty ulikely that they're going to be doing much setup tweaking to begin with. It is, after all, a pretty technical aspect of racing.
Can't do it for consoles? That's fine, and perhaps a limitation of that platform. But it's no reason to not implement it on the PC end.

EDIT: perhaps the setups are saved in the users .sav file ......... regardless, the above all still applies, since the game knows of two setups and can load them. .. altho I suppose that if you revert to default, you can't reload what you previously had.Since we don't know how the setup info is saved - and yes, it is all saved in the user profile file - it might well not be as simple as "adding a button". The structure of that file might be as such that it would require significant rewriting for various aspects of the game to account for the new data structure, since lots of parts of the game access different parts of the default.sav file. Of course, it might not, I don't know, but it would be churlish to suggest that it is a trivial matter to implement the feature.

Then there is the testing, to ensure that it both works as intended and doesn't mess any other part of the game up. That it hasn't already been implemented means it is looking very unlikely that it will be, given previous statements about no new features being added to the game now.

As I stated, although I can play the game perfectly satisfactorily without multiple setups does not detract from the fact that people are asking for it and that yes, it would be nice if it was implemented.

NemethR
28-01-2016, 11:42
I think, that for the 3-4-5 years this game has been developed, missing such core features is just plain bad game design.

Raf Nix
28-01-2016, 12:19
You guys seem pretty ecperienced in terms of pcars structure. The very default setup of vehicles is a kind of dynamic setup as e.g. the fuel amount is adjusted according to session length. As soon as one change setup one never get back to that dynamic set. It's a one size fits all kind of setup now with either 60 or 90 ltrs fuel regardless session structure when reverted to standard setup.
Is there a way to get back to that virgin setups?

cluck
28-01-2016, 14:10
You guys seem pretty ecperienced in terms of pcars structure. The very default setup of vehicles is a kind of dynamic setup as e.g. the fuel amount is adjusted according to session length. As soon as one change setup one never get back to that dynamic set. It's a one size fits all kind of setup now with either 60 or 90 ltrs fuel regardless session structure when reverted to standard setup.
Is there a way to get back to that virgin setups?The only way to restore the default setups across the board, in one step, is to delete your profile (default.sav) file from the Steam subfolder

(Steam install location)\Steam\userdata\xxxxxxx\234630\local\project cars\profiles

(xxxxxxx is a 7-digit number that changes from PC to PC)

EDIT : Be aware that you will have to reconfigure your controller, key mappings and will lose any career progress when you delete this file, so only do it if you are happy to start your career again :).