PDA

View Full Version : TRACK LIMITS/LBS/TIMETRIAL/CORNER CUTTING/CHEATING...



EMW Simmo
19-05-2015, 18:18
:culpability:This game is an absolute mess....Either sort out the track limits/corner cutting and reset the entire time trials/Lbs or just remove them and the community events because its a shambles, people are just driving where they want on 90% of the tracks...
Watch any ghost from any track, brake for the first corner n there off flatout across anything/anywhere they can.
Why have a racing game, supposed sim when its got the track limits of Forza Horizon...
Basically the game is unplayable until something is fixed or patched lol..
And your giving out prizes/running competitions with blatent cheating lollollollollol....joke.
I would make this a major priority or the game will be dead...

RobMUFC1987
19-05-2015, 18:22
Yep had a race at Monza online earlier. Everyone was cutting the chicanes and Ascari without penalty. Someone even jumped the start, was turn 1 before we set off, didn't pit, no penalty

EMW Simmo
19-05-2015, 18:22
And this goes for multiplayer aswell...Same result.

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 18:34
On multiplayer, make sure you join games where the flag/penalties are enabled.

vettelish
19-05-2015, 18:44
Every racing game has this. Almost have to learn where you can and can not go...Road america for example the rumble strips are friendly .... Nurburg ring they are the anti Christ
some tracks you can go way off and it wont count others not so much

We feel you, however no way around it. learn. get better. enjoy

vettelish
19-05-2015, 18:44
side note ..

EMW still around ?

PTG Claret
19-05-2015, 19:18
Agreed. Track limits on this game are bonkers.

I had one go on time trial at shangai. The ghost car completely straight lined the 3rd and 4th corner.

I'll not bother with this mode if that's how its played.

EMW Simmo
19-05-2015, 19:58
On multiplayer, make sure you join games where the flag/penalties are enabled.

Nothing to do with flags or penalties, on or off you can drive where u want on nearly everytrack, its just not been done right...

EMW Simmo
19-05-2015, 20:00
Every racing game has this. Almost have to learn where you can and can not go...Road america for example the rumble strips are friendly .... Nurburg ring they are the anti Christ
some tracks you can go way off and it wont count others not so much

We feel you, however no way around it. learn. get better. enjoy

I know how to drive n what lines are what, im talking about blatent corner cutting, running 50 metres off line etc, its a joke...

Worm
19-05-2015, 20:17
On multiplayer, make sure you join games where the flag/penalties are enabled.

Flag/penalties don't matter when this doesn't give you a penalty and it happens the entire way around Monza.

http://i.gyazo.com/701e55fc9018aff40b4dd2ab77bee4f5.jpg


Every racing game has this. Almost have to learn where you can and can not go...Road america for example the rumble strips are friendly .... Nurburg ring they are the anti Christ
some tracks you can go way off and it wont count others not so much

We feel you, however no way around it. learn. get better. enjoy

Most of the rumble strips at Road America are meant to be driven on.

http://nagleweb.com/images/uploads/s-RoadAmerica-1492.jpg


There are however a mixture of rumble strips at Nordschleife that can and can't be driven on. Watch a real life tutorial on how to drive the track.

Examples
http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7076/7303606472_176e7f4a5e.jpg
http://www.corvetteblogger.com/images/content/2013/091613_5.jpg


Your argument of get better and learn doesn't hold much weight here when the games penalty system and definition of track limits mirror that of GTA's in a lot of places. Kind of hard to get to that "enjoy" part.

AngelBrow
19-05-2015, 20:26
Chicane 2 on Monza you can cheat on.
I had a 4 lap race today with only Ruf gt3. Wanted a nice "Porsche supercup" afternoon on the game online.
The guy that was second who ended up winning on the last lap, every lap he went full speed thru the second chicane. I guess he only got a 5 sec penalty. He gained like 3 sec on it. I had full damage on, how the hell can you power on over 200km/h over those sausages lying on the outside of the track without breaking your suspension and wheels? Why after 3 track cuts arnt you getting a 5 sec stop and go or getting disq.?

Flags and penalties are on!!

Worm
19-05-2015, 20:28
Chicane 2 on Monza you can cheat on.
I had a 4 lap race today with only Ruf gt3. Wanted a nice "Porsche supercup" afternoon on the game online.
The guy that was second who ended up winning on the last lap, every lap he went full speed thru the second chicane. I guess he only got a 5 sec penalty. He gained like 3 sec on it. I had full damage on, how the hell can you power on over 200km/h over those sausages lying on the outside of the track without breaking your suspension and wheels? Why after 3 track cuts arnt you getting a 5 sec stop and go or getting disq.?

Flags and penalties are on!!

You don't get a penalty for the second chicane, you can just hop the curb and hope you don't spin out without anything happening. Doesn't even give you an invalid lap, just go over the green stuff.

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 20:57
Nothing to do with flags or penalties, on or off you can drive where u want on nearly everytrack, its just not been done right...

That is an exaggeration. There are places where you can cut but there are plenty of places which will penalize you. Most of the places you can cut are designed to be run-off areas (i.e. missing a turn). Hopefully there will be a way in the future to detect when vehicles hit these areas and penalize them if they don't come to a stop before re-joining the circuit (i.e. missing a braking point or being forced off).

EDIT: The point about enabling flags/penalties was about the person who jumped the start and never pitted for a penalty.

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 21:00
Most of the rumble strips at Road America are meant to be driven on.


Ask anyone who has really driven Road America; while you can drive on their sawtooth curbs, you really don't want to...

Worm
19-05-2015, 21:14
That is an exaggeration. There are places where you can cut but there are plenty of places which will penalize you. Most of the places you can cut are designed to be run-off areas (i.e. missing a turn). Hopefully there will be a way in the future to detect when vehicles hit these areas and penalize them if they don't come to a stop before re-joining the circuit (i.e. missing a braking point or being forced off).

EDIT: The point about enabling flags/penalties was about the person who jumped the start and never pitted for a penalty.

The problem here is that we paid full price for a retail version of a game released "now". We aren't WMD members that tested the game and ran it through the gauntlet. That time has passed so the "in the future" shouldn't be here, this isn't an alpha or beta version of the game any more. I don't know if some of you guys just missed a bunch of stuff and come here to save face, or if you just were ignored by developers, or if there simply wasn't enough time. What I do know is that Simmo and many others on the forum have well founded complaints/issues on various topics and are met with WMD members trying to marginalize them. :confused:

Hell, I actually like the game and think it has a ton of potential. It's a step in the right direction from what a lot of us are used to (going away from Sim to whatever you want to call current console car games). ;););)



Ask anyone who has really driven Road America; while you can drive on their sawtooth curbs, you really don't want to...

Still, in reference to the gentleman's post that I quoted the ones on Nordschleife that are shin high you can't drive on at all. :cool:

fostrike
19-05-2015, 21:15
just finish an online session at Barcelona Gp, people straight cutting the last chicane gain 2/3 second per lap...
Cutting a corner with 4 tires should be ALWAYS punisched, ALWAYS!

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 21:19
What I do know is that Simmo and many others on the forum have well founded complaints/issues on various topics and are met with WMD members trying to marginalize them. :confused:

I view it the other way, where I see gross exaggerations being thrown around. No one is trying to "marginalize" anything. No one said cuts aren't possible. However saying you can cut "everywhere" is an exaggeration.

The trick is trying to find a way to detect a cut rather than someone being forced off or missing a braking point. Difficult balance, but they could go the way of say iRacing and everything is a cut regardless. I'd like to think there are more options than something like this, but only time will tell.

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 21:20
That is an exaggeration. There are places where you can cut but there are plenty of places which will penalize you. Most of the places you can cut are designed to be run-off areas (i.e. missing a turn). Hopefully there will be a way in the future to detect when vehicles hit these areas and penalize them if they don't come to a stop before re-joining the circuit (i.e. missing a braking point or being forced off).

EDIT: The point about enabling flags/penalties was about the person who jumped the start and never pitted for a penalty.

those sections can remain run off areas for racing, but in regards to the leaderboards, the run off areas should still invalidate the lap. You arent trying to post times to the board while racing so invalidated lap times during a race shouldnt even matter.
Invalidate the lap on those sections, but dont flag the penalty so it can remain a run off but cant be used to post times to the LB

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 21:22
Difficult balance, but they could go the way of say iRacing and everything is a cut regardless. I'd like to think there are more options than something like this, but only time will tell.

Time will most certainly tell when the boards in a months time will have more of this at the top of the boards because that is what it takes to get up there. Unfortunately you either have "clean" boards which are done the iracing way, or you do it 50/50 and deal with the cut times on the board. I prefer the iracing way, everythings a cut.

Worm
19-05-2015, 21:25
Wait until we figure out how to grass brake, wall ride, wall bump, and corner cut every track. It should be a cut and nothing more. Would you like me to run a "clean" lap of Monza and show you that we aren't exaggerating?

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 21:25
Time will most certainly tell when the boards in a months time will have more of this at the top of the boards because that is what it takes to get up there. Unfortunately you either have "clean" boards which are done the iracing way, or you do it 50/50 and deal with the cut times on the board. I prefer the iracing way, everythings a cut.



Personally, I don't care about Leaderboards. I'll never run TT so those mean little to me. I care more about what happens during races and being able to penalize anyone using a cut directly for a benefit.

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 21:28
Personally, I don't care about Leaderboards. I'll never run TT so those mean little to me. I care more about what happens during races and being able to penalize anyone using a cut directly for a benefit.

And thats why you dont understand. The leaderboards integrity is integral to the competition in this game.

All those SMS community events are completely invalidated right now unless they make it cut everything and clean the boards. Absolutely no point in even running them.

Worm
19-05-2015, 21:31
Personally, I don't care about Leaderboards. I'll never run TT so those mean little to me. I care more about what happens during races and being able to penalize anyone using a cut directly for a benefit.

If you don't care and just backed off what you said then why are you here trying to marginalize someone's issues by saying they exaggerate things?

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 21:32
And thats why you dont understand. The leaderboards integrity is integral to the competition in this game.

All those SMS community events are completely invalidated right now unless they make it cut everything and clean the boards. Absolutely no point in even running them.

It's a part of the competition, it's not the only part of competition.

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 21:33
If you don't care and just backed off what you said then why are you here trying to marginalize someone's issues by saying they exaggerate things?

Because the same issue(s) impact racing as well as time trials. They are all related.

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 21:33
It's a part of the competition, it's not the only part of competition.

no, as far as leaderboards are concerned, its the only competition.

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 21:40
no, as far as leaderboards are concerned, its the only competition.

This thread has concepts which are not only about leaderboards. I think people are only reading the posts they want to... Again, one of the original post my comment was discussing was about someone jumping the start and not serving a drive-through penalty which is in this thread. This thread is NOT solely about the Leaderboards. Cut rules apply to more than just that single discipline.

PTG Claret
19-05-2015, 21:40
This is no exaggeration. This is apparently not a dirty lap, and incurs no penalty. The car should be the other side of the whit line. This is pretty game braking to those a: unable to play in controlled lobbies with a group of friends and b: those wanting to do TT properly. https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5448/17873667721_85e172ce48_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/terdGR)820 (https://flic.kr/p/terdGR) by cringing claret (https://www.flickr.com/photos/cringing_claret/), on Flickr

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 21:42
This is no exaggeration. This is apparently not a dirty lap, and incurs no penalty.

Which track and corner number is that? The WMD members can check to see if it's already been reported.

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 21:45
This thread has concepts which are not only about leaderboards. I think people are only reading the posts they want to... Again, one of the original post my comment was discussing was about someone jumping the start and not serving a drive-through penalty which is in this thread. This thread is NOT solely about the Leaderboards. Cut rules apply to more than just that single discipline.

clearly you didnt follow your own advice, to which I said, during racing, the cuts invalidate the lap, but still flag the penalty.

Outside of that, this thread is entirely about how it effects the integrity of the leaderboards.

As for suggesting checking if its reported. I myself reported things numerous times into the track cutting thread over the years, as Im sure that one was too.

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 21:52
clearly you didnt follow your own advice, to which I said, during racing, the cuts invalidate the lap, but still flag the penalty.

I have no idea what you are talking about... Either you don't natively speak English and there is a translation issue, or you skipped subjects on me.


As for suggesting checking if its reported. I myself reported things numerous times into the track cutting thread over the years, as Im sure that one was too.

I'm sure it is as well. However, our responsibility as WMD members should be assuring that they are reported. That's how "WE" can assist.

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 21:55
I have no idea what you are talking about... Either you don't natively speak English and there is a translation issue, or you skipped subjects on me.



I speak english just fine, your comprehension is the issue.

This thread is about the time trial leaderboards integrity compromised by track cuts that arent invalidating the lap.

You said, the cuts apply to more than just time trials and are a key component to racing.

If you invalidate the lap, on the cut it cant post to the boards.
If you allow the cut to still apply the penalty, then your issue with the racing side of this argument is moot.

If you are racing, you arent posting to the leaderboards, so what is the issue with it invalidating your lap during the race? Answer, there is none.

Motorhead Racer
19-05-2015, 22:01
It gets worse!!! If you try and pit in the likes of Spa, you will geta corner cut penalty... for using the pits... which has a speed limit...

And tonight I was racing go to rev my car like always on the grid and I get a penalty for false start, so I pit, take the penalty, and exit pits and recieve a 651 second penalty which restricts my speed to just 30mph!! sort this crap out!!!

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 22:05
If you invalidate the lap, on the cut it cant post to the boards.
If you allow the cut to still apply the penalty, then your issue with the racing side of this argument is moot.

If you are racing, you arent not posting to the leaderboards, so what is the issue with it invalidating your lap during the race? Answer, there is none.

The word invalidating is the problem here. That word really shouldn't be used in the sense of a racing session. Never is a lap not counted in racing today. If there is an issue with a lap, a team receives a penalty (whether stop & go, stop & hold, or time penalty at the end of the race). This is what I was referring to about detecting if a driver missed a turn but didn't stop before re-joining the track. If you watch the Daytona 24, you'll see if they miss the chicane, they have to come to a complete stop before re-joining or they receive a penalty. This is the type of system I'm referring to for races.

Now, for qualifying the same rules would apply as time trial since it's the same principle.

The only time lap times mean anything in a race, is if there are some sort of bonus championship points for "fast lap of the race" type scenario in which the same "invalidation" would happen. But to be clear, "invalidation" for races is only about "lap times" not "lap counting".

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 22:07
we dont care about what happens in real life in regards to the leaderboards. We care that track cut times arent being invalidated. Seems thats hard for you to grasp.

EMW Simmo
19-05-2015, 22:07
There are too many tracks to list with major issues...
Hockenheim all
Catalunya all
lemans/bugatti
Silverstone all
Monza
Sonoma all
Azure
Spa
Dubai
it just goes on n on...
It needs to be invalidated/dirty for everything.

You can cut on bugatti the entire first section....5 secs
You can bounce off walls cut the grass.
More than 3 wheels over the white line should automatically dirty your lap.

If people have pics/evidence of this on different tracks please show so we can get this fixed asap.....Afterall the game has the potential to be great...

apexatspeed
19-05-2015, 22:47
There are too many tracks to list with major issues...
Hockenheim all
Catalunya all
lemans/bugatti
Silverstone all
Monza
Sonoma all
Azure
Spa
Dubai
it just goes on n on...
It needs to be invalidated/dirty for everything.

You can cut on bugatti the entire first section....5 secs
You can bounce off walls cut the grass.
More than 3 wheels over the white line should automatically dirty your lap.

If people have pics/evidence of this on different tracks please show so we can get this fixed asap.....Afterall the game has the potential to be great...

On the La Sarthe Bugatti track you can take massive cuts out of the track without getting penalized. It seems as along as you don't touch the grass in the third sector you can just cut through those turns. This stuff definitely needs to be looked at.

Worm
19-05-2015, 22:58
The word invalidating is the problem here. That word really shouldn't be used in the sense of a racing session. Never is a lap not counted in racing today. If there is an issue with a lap, a team receives a penalty (whether stop & go, stop & hold, or time penalty at the end of the race). This is what I was referring to about detecting if a driver missed a turn but didn't stop before re-joining the track. If you watch the Daytona 24, you'll see if they miss the chicane, they have to come to a complete stop before re-joining or they receive a penalty. This is the type of system I'm referring to for races.

Now, for qualifying the same rules would apply as time trial since it's the same principle.

The only time lap times mean anything in a race, is if there are some sort of bonus championship points for "fast lap of the race" type scenario in which the same "invalidation" would happen. But to be clear, "invalidation" for races is only about "lap times" not "lap counting".

Semantics......you know exactly what everyone means and what this thread is about. Please stop trying to muddle up the conversation being thick.

Is it a problem? Yes
Should it be looked at? Yes
Should it be fixed? Yes


@DUST2DEATH, what other language do you guys speak down there in Australia?

DUST2DEATH
19-05-2015, 23:05
^topsy-turvy - Where every word is backwards and upside down and means the opposite of what we said.

Worm
19-05-2015, 23:07
^topsy-turvy - Where every word is backwards and upside down and means the opposite of what we said.

I hear the toilets even flush the opposite direction.....weird bunch you guys are.

wearymick
19-05-2015, 23:09
It needs to be fixed. Of the handful of tracks I have run so far, the TTs on Catalunya GP/National and Monza GP are completely borked.

Whatever SMS get wrong or right with penalties, they need to get the chicanes sorted. A cuttable chicane is almost always a massive time advantage.

For people who enjoy and focus on TT mode, having these exploits available basically excludes entire tracks from competition.

Would a multi-player racer stand for something like that?

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 23:10
Semantics......you know exactly what everyone means and what this thread is about. Please stop trying to muddle up the conversation being thick.

It's not semantics. It's specifics... In software development, the devil is in the details...

http://www.businessballs.com/images/treeswing/tree_swing_70s.jpeg

Worm
19-05-2015, 23:13
Well, you're wrong and if you had actually driven a track and attempted to inform yourself of an issue before forming an opinion on it then maybe you would understand.......isn't that how one wanting specifics would go about doing it?

Mahjik
19-05-2015, 23:22
Well, you're wrong and if you had actually driven a track and attempted to inform yourself of an issue before forming an opinion on it then maybe you would understand.......isn't that how one wanting specifics would go about doing it?

mmmKay... I've never driven a track, and never played pCAR ever... Thanks.

xLeper_Messiah
20-05-2015, 00:32
There are too many tracks to list with major issues...
Hockenheim all
Catalunya all
lemans/bugatti
Silverstone all
Monza
Sonoma all
Azure
Spa
Dubai
it just goes on n on...
It needs to be invalidated/dirty for everything.

You can cut on bugatti the entire first section....5 secs
You can bounce off walls cut the grass.
More than 3 wheels over the white line should automatically dirty your lap.

If people have pics/evidence of this on different tracks please show so we can get this fixed asap.....Afterall the game has the potential to be great...

You can add California Highway (all layouts) to that list, not really cuts per se more the fact that you can smack the guardrail pretty hard in some areas and not invalidate the lap.

I'm still proud of my #2 on the ps4 board on the full variant in the Zonda Roadster, but I will admit that at least twice on that lap I overcooked it and bounced my rear fender off the guardrail pretty good. Pretty sure it actually cost me time though since I was so stunned it didn't dirty my lap I lost my concentration for a bit lol!

Also good to see a lot of familiar names from FMnet in this thread, long time no see!

AshenShugar
20-05-2015, 03:14
It does need fixing, it's the how do we do it, that is the problem.

For time trial it should be 100% strict that's a relatively easy fix.

Now the MP or SP racing this is where the problem comes in, if you have 100% strict rules.

eg. Monza, your making a pass on the inside on the front straight you draft and move to the inside coming into the braking area. You turn into the T1 and he turns into you. You go barreling into a no cut zone and get penalized, he somehow manages to not cut, no penalty. That right there, will really get people aggravated and quite rightly. Which is why in real racing there isn't any auto penalty it has to be reviewed by a human.

Honestly there is no perfect solution the game can provide, the best thing you can do is find other good drivers in MP and build groups.

PTG Claret
20-05-2015, 06:08
Which track and corner number is that? The WMD members can check to see if it's already been reported.

Thar picture is shanghai int. It is turn 4. After that turn, you are able to run several car widths off the track against the wall, enabling massively better corner exit. Then, before entry to the last turn, you may run 10-15 car widths wide on entry, to anble you to take the corner however you like. On exit, you can then also run wide as you like. This is absolutely pathetic.

Not really sure what all the testers have been doing for years, but surely seeing if the track limits are set correctly in a racing game, where the idea is to circulate the track in the quickest legal way, would have at least had 20 mins spent on it.

wearymick
20-05-2015, 06:55
OK, well I guess that's one more off the TT list .... :(

madmax2069
20-05-2015, 07:44
When it comes to the community events and time trials it should be 100% strict.

All of the corner cutting in the time trials and community event has ruined it so far.

smoothherb
20-05-2015, 08:01
Its ridiculous how online is handled. The Penalty in GT where better than they are in PC. And trying to defend it doesn't make it better. There are Games that do a better Job.
But I donīt want to complain without a solution: Do Driving licences. D,C,B,A and S. Only when you pass them you can join certain races. So Pros can host there races and make shure only good drivers can join.
Or.
Make official Lobbys with Amateur Races up to Pro Races with different rules. So most Crashkids would go to Amateur Races.

mattrickl06
20-05-2015, 08:04
Agree with most of the TT posts in here, I mainly bought the game for a full and comprehensive TT leaderboard system with multiple ghosts etc as this is the way i can improve my driving.

Sadly 80% of all ghosts i have used thus far have seemed to be driving outside of the track on multiple occasions each lap which makes me want to do the same, however i resist because this is not driving, this is simply exploiting a game which is something that i have little desire for.

The even sadder thing is that if this is not sorted soon then people will lose interest and the drivers with good "clean" laptimes will be very p*ssed off when the leaderboards are inevitably wiped and may not return. (I am not playing it again until things are sorted)

If this is sorted soon along with a LB wipe then the situation may be retrievable for many people.

Any contact with objects / barriers etc or any driving with at least one wheel not within the track limits should invalidate the lap, I cant see how this is so difficult to establish? Run-off areas are outside the track limits and should therefore invalidate the lap.

Whilst the penalty in AC isnt perfect for MP, ie slowing the car to 30mph for 5 seconds, it does stop people cutting the track during races.

fostrike
20-05-2015, 08:34
eg. Monza, your making a pass on the inside on the front straight you draft and move to the inside coming into the braking area. You turn into the T1 and he turns into you. You go barreling into a no cut zone and get penalized, he somehow manages to not cut, no penalty. That right there, will really get people aggravated and quite rightly. Which is why in real racing there isn't any auto penalty it has to be reviewed by a human.

Honestly there is no perfect solution the game can provide, the best thing you can do is find other good drivers in MP and build groups.

The solution is very simple actually, you forgive the first corner cut and then punish all the others 3 wheels corner cut.

Pablo2008jedi
20-05-2015, 09:04
Agree with most of the TT posts in here, I mainly bought the game for a full and comprehensive TT leaderboard system with multiple ghosts etc as this is the way i can improve my driving.

Sadly 80% of all ghosts i have used thus far have seemed to be driving outside of the track on multiple occasions each lap which makes me want to do the same, however i resist because this is not driving, this is simply exploiting a game which is something that i have little desire for.

The even sadder thing is that if this is not sorted soon then people will lose interest and the drivers with good "clean" laptimes will be very p*ssed off when the leaderboards are inevitably wiped and may not return. (I am not playing it again until things are sorted)


Already lost interest in leaderboards and it's not only due to the cheats, but on PS4 timings rarely get populated.

DUST2DEATH
20-05-2015, 09:14
Already lost interest in leaderboards and it's not only due to the cheats, but on PS4 timings rarely get populated.

Give it more time.

NemethR
20-05-2015, 09:55
I had one go on time trial at shanghai...

What game are you playing?!

PTG Claret
20-05-2015, 10:56
I meant dubai :culpability:

Daynja
20-05-2015, 10:59
It does need fixing, it's the how do we do it, that is the problem.

For time trial it should be 100% strict that's a relatively easy fix.

Now the MP or SP racing this is where the problem comes in, if you have 100% strict rules.

eg. Monza, your making a pass on the inside on the front straight you draft and move to the inside coming into the braking area. You turn into the T1 and he turns into you. You go barreling into a no cut zone and get penalized, he somehow manages to not cut, no penalty. That right there, will really get people aggravated and quite rightly. Which is why in real racing there isn't any auto penalty it has to be reviewed by a human.

Honestly there is no perfect solution the game can provide, the best thing you can do is find other good drivers in MP and build groups.

And remove real rewards from the community events as these are the reasons people will cheat more to win. Or add very strict rule sets to the TT/community modes.I think the latter is better TBH

NemethR
20-05-2015, 11:46
Here is my solution:

Practice: Corner cut warning, no penalty, as it does not count towards anything.

Time Trial, Community Events, Qualifying:
If you go 4 wheels off the track (over the white line), or 2 wheels off the track over the curbs.

Penalty:
1st time: Corner cut warning + Lap time invalidated
2nd time: Corner cut warning + Lap time invalidated
3rd time: Final warning + Lap time invalidated
4th time: Disqualified from the session or the event.

*Also no setup change allowed in Community events (except: Steering lock change)

In Offline and Online Races:
Add a collision detection system.
If there is a collision between 2 cars, then in the next 2 seconds the car does not suffer any penalty for leaving the track, as long as in the sector in which the car left the track he does not drive a faster laptime then in then last and next round.
Example:
* Collision is in the first shicane in Monza.
* Collision effect is triggered, car leaves the track, thus he does not get a penalty.
* Check first sector time.
* If Sector 1 time is more then sector time in previous lap, no penalty is issued.
* If sector 1 time is less then in previous lap, wait, and check next lap too.
* If sector 1 time is more then in the "next" lap no penalty.
* Else a penalty is issued.

Penalty (for each corner seperately or per 10 laps):
1st time: Corner cut warning + Lap time invalidated + 1 sec slowdown
2nd time: Corner cut warning + Lap time invalidated + 2 sec slowdown
3rd time: Corner cut warning + Lap time invalidated + 3 sec slowdown
4th time: Lap time invalidated + Drive through
5th time: Lap time invalidated + Stop and Go
6th time: Lap time invalidated + Stop and go for 10 sec
7th time: Disqualified from the session or the event.
*note: for cutting 2 corners at once (Like Monza 1st chicane) the slowdown could be: 3 sec - 5 sec - 7 sec.

Well this is at least my suggestion.

NVI0U5
20-05-2015, 12:29
Model the game 2 wheels off fine, 3 or more invalidated for TT

Daynja
20-05-2015, 12:51
Model the game 2 wheels off fine, 3 or more invalidated for TT

Thats still outside track limits. During timing (qualifying) this causes an invalidated lap. Only under race conditions will it be ignored/accepted and that also will depend on if its happening only to a few racers rather than the entire field doing it.

I dont see human decision making AI being programmed for games anytime soo, so the method most developers take is to blanket punish, however the severity can be different. iRacing does that best with a point system and eventual DQ if the points reach 17.

The results are far better drivers, overall.

As for TT there must be a zero tolerance for going over the white line or Armco barrier/concrete wall riding, there must be. Or we will always see corners being cut to gain advantages for these types of events.

Worm
20-05-2015, 12:57
It should be two wheels off is okay but three is a penalty. Regardless it is pointless to hot lap at all or run time trials which for a lot of us makes the game pointless altogether and a waste of our money. I would love to race online but then I would have to go region jumping to find lobbies that are populated.....another bad design.

Spiderx
20-05-2015, 13:34
I dont understand WMD members defending such thing, no matter if you can cut in 1,2 or 2000 places...the simple fact that this might exist puts many people off, i am suposed to learn better how to attack the TURNS, not how to find the gazzilion HOLES on the tracks... i prefer ONE single perfect track anti assholes then 100 tracks completely crapped off ..... And to those that say they dont care about leaderboards, you dont but others do... i dont care either for AI and single player but i respect the ones who like it...

KK78
20-05-2015, 13:48
It's annoying to see some of the ghosts in time trials getting away with cutting the corners and yet I get an invalidated lap for touching a blade of grass :frown-new:

creepyd
20-05-2015, 14:26
A good start (short term fix) would be to add a 'report ghost for cheating' button.
Something like 5-10 people report a ghost (needs to be a few to prevent misuse), then that ghost and the time are automatically deleted.
Although maybe not, there's nothing stopping you clicking on all the top times :(

I have a good time on California and played it for many hours - there are definitely a few barriers you can hit without invalidating your time, but they are barriers it doesn't matter - so in fact you do lose time.
All those I've hit from going too fast round a corner (gaining an advantage) have invalidated my time so far.

From the sounds of things, it's really put me off playing TT's, which is what I enjoy most.
I hope this can be fixed asap.

DonPablo
20-05-2015, 14:43
im sure this problem is on the to do list but with low priority.
Thats one of the easiest things u can update in game. A DQ area in tracks.

Mahjik
20-05-2015, 14:48
I meant dubai :culpability:

Yes, I figured it was Dubai originally. It's had a lot of reports of cuts but I'll verify the one you pointed out has been reported.

Doug914
20-05-2015, 15:55
You don't get a penalty for the second chicane, you can just hop the curb and hope you don't spin out without anything happening. Doesn't even give you an invalid lap, just go over the green stuff.

I've tried this here locally with our latest in-house build and Code. RUF RGT8 GT3 Monza. I get a cut track through the second chicane everytime. We did some work on the cut track code and sensitivity around release, but It missed the D1P. You'll get it in a future patch. Not sure which one.

Rift Racer
20-05-2015, 18:14
Which track and corner number is that? The WMD members can check to see if it's already been reported.

That's the point, it shouldn't matter which track or corner, there is a white line which defines track limits, and it's been crossed by all 4 wheels (and the full car body), invalid lap time. Period.

You can allow people to go off in a race there at certain run off places etc. but it has to warn them, penalise them for repeats, and most importantly, invalidate their impossible lap time (whether in time trial or a race).

Worm
20-05-2015, 20:53
I've tried this here locally with our latest in-house build and Code. RUF RGT8 GT3 Monza. I get a cut track through the second chicane everytime. We did some work on the cut track code and sensitivity around release, but It missed the D1P. You'll get it in a future patch. Not sure which one.

Thank you and thanks for the reply and notification that it is being addressed.

Would it help if spots were noted and pictures supplied of the areas that are bad?

Mahjik
20-05-2015, 20:56
Thank you and thanks for the reply and notification that it is being addressed.

Would it help if spots were noted and pictures supplied of the areas that are bad?

Yes. This is how the WMD group have been reporting cut issues (photos along with track name and corner name/number).

ammonthenephite
21-05-2015, 05:49
I know the game was just released, but I was hoping this would all be sorted by release time. Between the cutting, and the fact that they don't even bother to separate out the leaderboard times of those who run real/no assists from those who turn on all assists, I've given up on the whole time trial section of the game. I just hotlap in practice sessions and keep track of my own personal records. Hopefully they get it sorted soon.

Doug914
21-05-2015, 09:46
Thank you and thanks for the reply and notification that it is being addressed.

Would it help if spots were noted and pictures supplied of the areas that are bad?

The change I'm talking about is game wide and will affect the detection at every track, so hopefully the bulk of the bad ones will just go away. So its fine to report what you want now, but after the patch that includes this (again I don't know which one), is when it would be more important.

Worm
21-05-2015, 12:31
The change I'm talking about is game wide and will affect the detection at every track, so hopefully the bulk of the bad ones will just go away. So its fine to report what you want now, but after the patch that includes this (again I don't know which one), is when it would be more important.

Thanks, hopefully it is in a patch coming soon. I have Witcher 3 to tide me over until then.

NVI0U5
21-05-2015, 12:38
Im only going to keep a few #1 spots on the LBs mostly on the tracks u cant go right off the track cos I dont want to waste my time for a LB reset like on Forza

wearymick
21-05-2015, 13:09
The change I'm talking about is game wide and will affect the detection at every track, so hopefully the bulk of the bad ones will just go away. So its fine to report what you want now, but after the patch that includes this (again I don't know which one), is when it would be more important.

So does this mean there will be 1. a leaderboard reset game wide, 2. a wipe just on the affected tracks, or 3. no wipe at all. If 2 then it would be good to have a list of the tracks that will be reset so that they can be avoided until the patch arrives.

NVI0U5
21-05-2015, 13:12
So does this mean there will be 1. a leaderboard reset game wide, 2. a wipe just on the affected tracks, or 3. no wipe at all. If 2 then it would be good to have a list of the tracks that will be reset so that they can be avoided until the patch arrives.

Forza did a whole leaderboard wipe, it was because classic V8s had awd retrofitted which made them amazingly fast I dont know what SMS will do

mattrickl06
21-05-2015, 13:51
i think a full wipe while the game is relatively new isnt a massive tarnish for SMS.

So long as they get it right after the wipe.

DUST2DEATH
21-05-2015, 20:51
So does this mean there will be 1. a leaderboard reset game wide, 2. a wipe just on the affected tracks, or 3. no wipe at all. If 2 then it would be good to have a list of the tracks that will be reset so that they can be avoided until the patch arrives.

IMO its quite widespread and the number of tracks arent just a few. I think a full board wipe will come, as it will to difficult to discern the cheaters that are 'slow' further down the boards. They may not be at the top, but that still ruins competition for those down the boards.

ToOSk3tChY
21-05-2015, 22:42
Everywhere off track limits invalidates laptime, whatever mode.

Cut corners 2 times and every 2nd time after that during a race without gaining position - penalty(if it truly is an accident everytime then you should get penalized for being such a bad driver anyway, will help you get quicker)

Cut corners and gain position within 20 seconds and do not drop a position within 30 seconds - penalty

Could you program that or something along those lines? Forza 5 Online crumbled as MP was full of cheaters. This is no different. There's a big lesson there.

Were the delays for this game down to this very debate being had over, and over, and over again... ;P

OperatorWay
22-05-2015, 00:29
http://www.fia.com/regulations


"2015 F1 Sporting Regulations - Published on 26.02.15...

...20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track..."


http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules


"Club Codes & Regulations...

...25.6 Off-course Excursions

The competitor is required to follow the marked course during competition and shall not gain an advantage by an off-course excursion. An off-course excursion is defined as leaving the marked course with all four wheels..."

Worm
22-05-2015, 01:06
The change I'm talking about is game wide and will affect the detection at every track, so hopefully the bulk of the bad ones will just go away. So its fine to report what you want now, but after the patch that includes this (again I don't know which one), is when it would be more important.

Really, really appreciative of you coming in and explaining things and what is going on from the developer side and that it is mentioned. Also that you didn't allow me to waste my time doing something that is potentially fixed anyhow.

Just my opinion but I think a LB wipe would be in order if things are fixed. Otherwise what is the point of having leaderboards that you can't run.......again, thank you.

ToOSk3tChY
22-05-2015, 09:28
+1 to the LB wipe

DonPablo
22-05-2015, 11:40
i care about leaderboard. Thats the reason why I play pcars. I want to improve my track skills in game.
Like in cs or sc2, there is also a leaderboard with rank which shows u current skill. Without that, both games would be crap.

creepyd
22-05-2015, 12:35
+1 to the LB wipe once fixed.
I have some good time son California, but anyone with good times did them once and can do them again if they are genuinely good at the track.

dyr_gl
22-05-2015, 12:55
Guys, donīt forget to fix pitlane exit penalties. If I use the correct pit exit in Monaco I get a corner cutting penalty :eek:

Rift Racer
22-05-2015, 20:32
Guys, donīt forget to fix pitlane exit penalties. If I use the correct pit exit in Monaco I get a corner cutting penalty :eek:

Ironic really, when all 3 chicanes @ Monaco can be cut without receiving one.

TassyDevil
24-05-2015, 06:06
+1 to the LB wipe

Yes agreed.
While PCars is new there should not be to many complaints.

Just get the fixes right though. :D

BillCody
24-05-2015, 11:06
Why not base the Time Trials the same way you do for qualifying for a race? It invalidates the lap every time you leave the race track,so only the ones who stay on the track get their laps recorded.

DonPablo
26-05-2015, 10:49
they should make better DQ areas for quali and race and then lb reset

DiNet
19-06-2015, 15:05
Duno if Monza is added here on the "list", but it's pathetic for game that calls itself a "sim" to even have this kind of stuff in final version!!!
Just load up monza mclaren gt3 ghosts from online "ladder", people are not cutting corners, but rather driving right through them!
Very poor game state.
Should have listened to reviews from real sim racers to just ignore this one :(

schneterz
19-06-2015, 19:09
I get the point of people saying it is not realistic on many corners, but on the other side, everybody will try
to go on the best line, no matter where track limits are.
As long as at least 2 tyres are on track its considered fine, even in real life.

And imagine the track limits are too narrow:
Somebody pushes you off track in a race, it happens, and you get imidiatly penalized.
i dont want to hear the complains about that. And i am sure they will come.

so think of it this way: even it is a sim, it is not the real thing.
so if you know you can cut some corners in time trial, just do it.
its makes no difference what line is allowed and wich is not.
the better driver will still be the faster driver.

N0body Of The Goat
19-06-2015, 19:18
I feel guilty (especially online) when I'm happy I can take Spa's Eau Rouge at a certain speed and stay within the track defining white lines with at least two wheels, but then as tyre grip levels drop, I understeer heavily towards the top of the hill at go inside the complex exit with 3 or more wheels.

I would dearly love to be given a penalty (drive through; stop 'n' go; post race 5/10/15secs addition to finishing time) for doing this during the race, or have my laptime invalidated in practice/qual/warmup.

V12 GForce1
21-06-2015, 12:10
I am hoping a full time trial leaderboard wipe is on the cards.
It is frustrating to know you must cut corners to fight for the top times.
I have done so on catalunya national as to beat the #1 time, I have also used the run off on Silverstone national to get my time.
I would be happy for these times to be deleted and forgotten if we were all given the chance to start fresh with clean times.
I have noticed a lot of the same names on all tracks that can be manipulated..
If or when a fix happens, I believe the leaderboarda will become populated like they should be, more people will put effort into their times and setups and it will be more challenging for all.

Baron_Greenback
21-06-2015, 12:28
This is one of my few gripes with the game. If I look at a kerb on Nordschleife my time is invalidated, yet on other tracks people cut massive sections.
Sonoma/Mono CC; The top spot is ten seconds faster than those who didn't skip a good chunk of the track. I beat the #1 ghost up until the point he cuts a corner half way through.

Phrenesis2k
27-06-2015, 05:45
The dubai international sr8 event is ruined because of faulty track limits. The guy that has set the nr1 time goes off the track for almost every corner. It's no fun joining these events when you know you got to use these errors in the game to set the best time.

Hopefully it will get fixed soon and all the times get reset .

rHodgey
04-07-2015, 10:57
The worst track for cutting in my opinion is Le Circuit Bugatti, at the first chicane you can completely skip it going flat out, you don't even have to be close to the curbs and this gains 3 seconds, then later in the lap (not sure what turn number) you can completely miss another corner gaining yet another second, it's honestly a joke at best.

Sloskimo
04-07-2015, 12:26
Oh boy, watching quali in Silverstone now, it's not going to help this discussion die :) Not that it should, there are most definitely issues there. But we'll see how it fares in the next patch( es), considering Doug already mentioned something like 1.5 meters less or something like it.