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Arkymedes
20-05-2015, 08:16
Hello everybody,

Simple question from a racing enthusiast (a nice way to say noob):

I'm still struggling with manual shifts since in real life I actually never drive manual cars, so for Project Cars I decided to go full auto and try to mimic my own driving style.

The problem is that I get behind and I'm no match for the manual shifters out there. Is there a way to be competitive in this game driving automatic?

Also, in technical terms, why an automatic car performs worse than manual? And how to perform better?

Thanks in advance,
Arky

MrStef85
20-05-2015, 08:22
Just practice a lot with manual shifting. In some turns it's better to have more revs or a different gear.

MrStef85
20-05-2015, 08:24
Are you playing with keyboard or wheel?

Arkymedes
20-05-2015, 08:28
Thrustmaster F430 (paddle shifts)

Thank you for your answer!

poet
20-05-2015, 08:32
No you cannot be as fast as a manual gears user, for reasons (long technical dribbly stuff).

You can mitigate it to some extent by at least manually downshifting while still using autogears as that is usually where the biggest loss comes.

Example:
You're driving along in 4th gear, you come to a sharp turn and brake, autogears knocks you down to 3rd and you continue braking, and it lowers your revs even further down the power band still in 3rd gear, it should really drop you down to 2nd but doesn't because you've eased your braking.
So you leave the corner still in 3rd gear, but WAY down the revs in 3rd, and it takes you a good few seconds to get back to the more torque-y part of 3rd gear, at which point you've dropped behind.
The solution, is when you notice corners where this happens, downshift manually, so that you exit the corner in 2nd gear, with mid revs and more available power - thus leaving the corner faster and dropping back less.

MrStef85
20-05-2015, 08:46
Thrustmaster F430 (paddle shifts)

Thank you for your answer!

Your welcome!

Invincible
20-05-2015, 08:47
Or other scenario, especially for Formula A: You have a very slow corner, so autogear knocks you down to 1st, but manually you would use 2nd to maintain traction on the rear wheels whilst accelerating from the apex - in 1st you might probably spin out while you would have been perfectly fine in 2nd.

madmax2069
20-05-2015, 08:50
The only real difference between auto shift and manual shift in this game is with a manual shift car you get to choose what gear you're in (which can be more optimal slowing down for a turn, hanging in a turn, accelerating out of a turn, or going up a hill), and a automatic you dont (although you can force a gear change up or down by pressing one of the two assigned buttons used to shift manually). Being that in the game the cars are really manual shift cars, but the game shifts for you when set in automatic.

Some cars use a semi-automatic (use flappy paddles on the steering wheel) and when they shift it happens just about instantly, and some use a fully manual transmission (clutch and stick) which there will be a delay when shifting, there aren't really any true automatic cars in the game (from what I have seen).

Its best just to learn how to shift Manually (you can set to auto clutch for you, so all you have to do is press a button to shift up, and a button to shift down amd not worry about using a clutch).

Beatminister
20-05-2015, 09:06
A automatic gearbox is just not reacting as flexible to various driving situations as a person can. Its programmed to shift gears at certain engine revolutions, regardless of the circumstances, like inclines, the demand of the next corner, and lots more. You as a driver can judge much better (with a bit experience) what gear is best in the current situation. On top of that, you can use the gears to slow down the car smoother than just breaking before coming to a turn in manual mode, the automatic changes down gears much too late for that.

TrevorAustin
20-05-2015, 09:20
Most of what you guys are saying simply isn't true of a high end auyo gearbox. Which is what a lot of the supercars have. Personal choice yes, but performance, no
It's true of a lot of average road car boxes, but not most of the cars in this game.

Arkymedes
20-05-2015, 09:28
Most of what you guys are saying simply isn't true of a high end auyo gearbox. Which is what a lot of the supercars have. Personal choice yes, but performance, no
It's true of a lot of average road car boxes, but not most of the cars in this game.

Interesting point. So does that mean that the automatic gearboxes in this game are being poorly represented? Because clearly there is a performance impact.

Lars Rosenquist
20-05-2015, 09:45
Do you know 100% sure that the difference in gearbox is why you're lagging behind and not other reasons? (e.g. driving skill, tuning setup, etc. etc.). Because if you want to be competitive online you need to tick all those boxes, only one of them will not suffice. So if you're prepared to work on your driving skill, tune your car properly, etc. you should (IMO) also use manual/sequential.

If you're not prepared to do all that (which is perfectly fine, especially tuning is a lot of work) you should accept the current level you're at.

Arkymedes
20-05-2015, 09:52
Do you know 100% sure that the difference in gearbox is why you're lagging behind and not other reasons? (e.g. driving skill, tuning setup, etc. etc.). Because if you want to be competitive online you need to tick all those boxes, only one of them will not suffice. So if you're prepared to work on your driving skill, tune your car properly, etc. you should (IMO) also use manual/sequential.

If you're not prepared to do all that (which is perfectly fine, especially tuning is a lot of work) you should accept the current level you're at.

I absolutely agree with you and I didn't want to imply that the auto gearbox was the reason for my lack of skills or whatever. I just wanted to start a discussion about IF someone using an auto gearbox CAN BE as competitive as someone who does not and if not, why :)

But answering your question, no, I don't have the skills nor the time available to tune everything to perfection. I mostly play online because I love the community and I love racing games as a hobby. And I'm perfectly fine with my "level".

Again, since I drive automatic, I wanted to know from the community if this gives as big a performance impact as I think it does, so I can tick off this box and focus on other aspects of my driving :)

Thanks!

Lars Rosenquist
20-05-2015, 10:00
Thing is, because your online performance depends on more than just gearbox, you might be competitive against manual shifters under circumstances. Just as there are pad users that will kick my ass despite me using a wheel, just because they have better driving skill than myself. And no, I'm not going to spend hours and hours per day to improve my skill. ;)

So in theory you are not competitive, but in practice it's not so straightforward, sometimes you will be and sometimes you won't.

KK78
20-05-2015, 10:03
It's not a simple yes or no question. Firstly it is dependent on the car, some supercars and indeed performance cars can change gear quicker/select the most appropriate gear faster than a human can so that is the first factor to consider. Secondly you need to factor in the time it will take for you not just to get good with manual gears but to get very very good because that is what you'll be competing against- I would bet that if you were to start with manual gears from today you'll still be slower than the fastest auto box players for quite some time. Thirdly gains for a super proficient manual box player will only be milliseconds above that of a skilled auto box player over the course of the very fastest laps so it is very useful if you want to be the cream of the crop but to get there there are also other factors to consider such as reactions, set-up, tuning (as Lars said) and overall skill.

In short, manual gears are faster in the hands of a master but you would need to consider all other factors too because simply switching to manual may well put you backwards for a while. In PCars and many other racers I use auto because I found manual gears a distraction, just a personal thing, but I felt focusing more on other factors braking points, brake duration vs lifting, corner entry, carrying speed, corner exiting be more useful, in Driveclub for example I top many leader boards vs players using manual gears.

A tip for Project Cars is that the downshift button (LB) is very useful on mid-high level cars for auto box users as it can limit the time wasted through corners if your car is a little slow to change down, so as you enter a corner the gears shift down but you find on accelerating that there is a 'lull' in the uptake (because for example the car is still in 3rd but really needs to be in 2nd gear) downshifting here will get your momentum back up. It can take practice with the timing but it can save you time per lap.

PeteUplink
20-05-2015, 10:05
I only use auto gears when driving with the controller and not with the wheel. My lap times are considerably slower with the auto gears, so I usually only race against the AI when using the controller. That being said, I have raced online with the controller and faired quite wel. But usually there's been a reason for it, like the guys in front taking each other out in a pile up.

wraithsrike
20-05-2015, 10:30
Depends how good the players are your up against, I can play either way, some people like to think there good in manual mode but still get whipped by auto drivers.

A friend of mine is very good at this game and can whip me whether he'd use manual or auto it just all depends on the player, but rule of thumb is if your good with a manual then yes thats the way to go.

SIR_Driftalot
20-05-2015, 11:23
Thrustmaster F430 (paddle shifts)

Thank you for your answer!

That's a decent wheel and it should be pretty easy for you to pick up playing manual.

When I first got my wheel after playing racing games with a controller using an automatic gear box, I also found the learning curve quite steep, but you need to persevere..!

I just found a track I liked, and was quite quick on and then I car I enjoyed driving (not too quick to begin with) and just put in a lot of laps.

To begin with I was way slower using the wheel and manual gearbox, but after a few hours (yes hours), I was matching my controller times, then within a day or two I was surpassing them!

Trust us, you need to give this a red hot go, eventually it will become second nature and you won't even be thinking about it as you'll be to busy eking that last bit out the car.

Cheers.

Edroh De Nornal
20-05-2015, 12:19
Is there a way to be competitive in this game driving automatic?


nope



Also, in technical terms, why an automatic car performs worse than manual? And how to perform better?

the same opinion of the people who posted it here, in manual you can judge when to shift, in automatic you can't


Thanks in advance,
Arky

My advice, if you want to upgrade your skills, don't look at the RPM gauge, hear the engine and shift

DoodlesSWE
20-05-2015, 12:23
Hello everybody,

Simple question from a racing enthusiast (a nice way to say noob):

I'm still struggling with manual shifts since in real life I actually never drive manual cars, so for Project Cars I decided to go full auto and try to mimic my own driving style.

The problem is that I get behind and I'm no match for the manual shifters out there. Is there a way to be competitive in this game driving automatic?

Also, in technical terms, why an automatic car performs worse than manual? And how to perform better?

Thanks in advance,
Arky

Just practice, practice and practice. You'll get there. Then when you learned manual, it's time for heel and toe as a real race driver :)

BimodalRocket
20-05-2015, 12:57
i prefer to shift manually but using auto I jumped to spot 9 from 15 on brands hatch Indy with the formula 2.
I find that when accelerating, if your shifts are slightly off the cars balance gets thrown off a bit which can result in loss of control. Also, timing your down shifts is critical in manual. A bit too early into 2nd or first and your wheels will lock momentarily and you will spin.

TrevorAustin
20-05-2015, 18:59
Interesting point. So does that mean that the automatic gearboxes in this game are being poorly represented? Because clearly there is a performance impact.

If theres a big lap time difference for one of the supercars in this game i would say yes. Most of them don't even come with a clutch nowadays. Pretty sure that includes f1, but might be wrong

madmax2069
20-05-2015, 19:08
Interesting point. So does that mean that the automatic gearboxes in this game are being poorly represented? Because clearly there is a performance impact.

Yes, as there isnt a true automatic gearbox in the game, they're either semi-auto (cars that shift with flappy paddles on the steering wheel), and a full manual (with stick amd clutch).

When set to automatic shift it still uses the manual gear box, or the semi-automatic gearbox. the game simply changes the gears and works the clutch (if the car has a full manual gear box), and simply changes the gears for you (if its a semi-automatic).

Theres no automatic gearbox in the game, so you'll wont really see the true automatic transmission downsides in racing in this game.

LADY GEMMA JANE
20-05-2015, 19:31
I play on auto, full assists , im not competitive, I play for fun

Joao
21-05-2015, 00:10
I have tried auto in pCars. It does not change my times much. I just can't use the motor to break with auto so I change my stile a bit.

Arkymedes
23-05-2015, 07:28
Thanks for all the answers guys!

Arkymedes
23-05-2015, 07:32
I play on auto, full assists , im not competitive, I play for fun

Although I sympathize with your statement, it's irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. The thread was aimed to get opinions from the people that play it with a more competitive side in mind and to get a technical opinion about manual vs automatic transmissions.

Thanks though :)

RDogg
23-05-2015, 10:19
Project Cars is the first ever game I started using manual gears on (Using G27). I like to consider myself as a decent racer, but had never really done a lot of sim racing on PC, as I used to play consoles all the time up until 2-3 years ago.

Using manual I find myself having a lot more confidence to go quicker because I have full control of the car. Yesterday I was playing on Spa in the RUF GT3's. I was 2nd place due to a small incident as it had been raining, but managed to catch the 1st place guy who was about 5 seconds ahead within 3 laps. This was mainly because he was a lot slower through Eau Rouge, were as I was taken it in 6th and just letting off slightly, he was downshifting in the corner to 5th, meaning I'd gain a lot of time on him on the straight that follows.

Because he was using automatic (I asked him after the race) the following chicane he was using 2nd while I was shifting up to 3rd on the exit well before he was.

TL;DR - Your race craft and outright speed will improve using manual gears.

mcscott
23-05-2015, 16:34
If you want to start driving manual in the game, the best tip I could give (for a beginner anyway) is to pay attention to the rev counter. If you're playing with the HUD on, you will see an indicator which tells you what gear you're in. when accelerating, you will notice that this eventually goes red, at which point you should change up a gear. when braking, you need to change down through the gears to keep the revs from dropping too low because this will mess up your acceleration if you're in a high gear at low revs. The other thing you need to do is listen to the car. After a while it becomes intuitive and you can work out when to shift and what gear you should be in.

If you play from cockpit cam, you will notice a lighting system on the steering wheel or dashboard that will also indicate when to shift.

It's kinda hard to explain without getting overly technical, but the best way to improve it to try it out and stick with it. I sucked at manual shifting when I first started with it as well, but once you get used to it, it can be really quite rewarding.

Hope this helps a bit :)

zuotoski
23-05-2015, 23:36
I play on auto, full assists , im not competitive, I play for fun

Thank you!!! I thought that I was the only one that have this kind of preference/mind. What a relief! :) This is the point: what is fun for someone and what is fun for someone else? But this is a long conversation... this is not the right time/place.

Cheers.

HBR-Roadhog
24-05-2015, 00:25
I would say yes you can be competitive using an auto trans. In most cases you could be more competitive using a manual but only if you drive the manual properly, early or late shifting can cost you a lot and if you haven't got practice using manual gears you will find yourself in the wrong gear at times and as a result will be less competitive than if you were using auto trans. When you are comfortable with a manual and know when and where to shift then if can make you a bit quicker. This also depends somewhat on the car and track. On some ovals tracks it makes little to no difference as you rarely change gears. On road courses where there are a lot of gear changes and especially those that may occur while in a sweeping corner manual is always better but again only if you shift them properly.

So yes you can be competitive using auto and yes you should learn to use a manual.