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Francorchamps
20-05-2015, 20:19
When you simulate a session like quali, in the hud you won't see the tyre temperature. Why is that? Today I simulated a quali right out of the pits and I noticed the AI that simulates my session is either very good or didn't had cold tyres coming out of the pits. The speed when he was coming out of the pits would make me slip or spin on cold tyres.

Also sometimes he is going for the fastest lap and instead of making the lap count he just drives in to the pits, next lap again until quali is over and no lap time was set. What is going on here?

Mahjik
20-05-2015, 20:37
The AI uses a more simple physics model of the player model (i.e. it's not a completely different model, just a slimmed down version of the player model). It's just not possible to run high numbers of AI cars using the full calculations it takes for the player car.

wraithsrike
20-05-2015, 20:43
When you simulate a session like quali, in the hud you won't see the tyre temperature. Why is that? Today I simulated a quali right out of the pits and I noticed the AI that simulates my session is either very good or didn't had cold tyres coming out of the pits. The speed when he was coming out of the pits would make me slip or spin on cold tyres.

Also sometimes he is going for the fastest lap and instead of making the lap count he just drives in to the pits, next lap again until quali is over and no lap time was set. What is going on here?

Yes race's aren't quite fair yet, AI do not suffer from either cold or Wet tyre', it's something that seriously needs addressing.

wraithsrike
20-05-2015, 20:45
The AI uses a more simple physics model of the player model (i.e. it's not a completely different model, just a slimmed down version of the player model). It's just not possible to run high numbers of AI cars using the full calculations it takes for the player car.

What your saying may well be true but it's certainly not acceptable.

JDFSSS
20-05-2015, 20:48
The AI uses a more simple physics model of the player model (i.e. it's not a completely different model, just a slimmed down version of the player model). It's just not possible to run high numbers of AI cars using the full calculations it takes for the player car.

However, it is possible to make an AI that responds in a believable way to cold tires. The way the AI handles changing grip conditions is really bad in this game.

Srt8 300c
20-05-2015, 20:50
I agree.
Ian bell has replied to a previous thread ( Cant find it )
He said its a valid point and has "put his team on it"
Fingers crossed we will see a update in the near future with a update to display temps....
As a rule of thumb:
blue=cold
Yellow=upto race temp
Red=very hot
You could always adjust your button mapping and change your configuration to enable you to bring telementry up whenever you desire.....
Thats hopefully a short term solution.
As for the ai..... they are bonkers atm.......

Mahjik
20-05-2015, 21:00
However, it is possible to make an AI that responds in a believable way to cold tires. The way the AI handles changing grip conditions is really bad in this game.

Yes. There was an early attempt at making the AI slower at the start to simulate cold tire behavior. It was tested and working but it was mainly tested with the GT3/4 cars (during development, there was focus on a single group of cars to validate the technology direction before making large scale changes on all vehicles). It seems the Clio Cup is the one which has a majority of the issues reported so it's possible the balance wasn't set properly on this car as it was with some of the others. The AI lead Doug has posted that he's looking into it so there will be a solution.

nomen nescio
20-05-2015, 21:57
pCars is a good simulation game but the AI is rubbish. I tried a quick weekend and the way the AI drives is just ridiculous. They are all over the place, constantly crashing into me etc... .

JDFSSS
20-05-2015, 22:19
pCars is a good simulation game but the AI is rubbish. I tried a quick weekend and the way the AI drives is just ridiculous. They are all over the place, constantly crashing into me etc... .

I wouldn't say the AI is that bad. I like that the AI in this game will challenge you. I am able to drive with the AI without getting crashed into all the time. The way they behave is predictable, so I've been able to adjust my driving to have a good experience racing with the AI. I don't know of any racing games with great AI, and the AI in this game is not bad compared to other games I've played (mainly gran turismo and codemasters f1 series).

Psychomatrix
20-05-2015, 22:41
Now in the race a mercedes sel rams my escort simply out the way. My car stands suddenly against driving direction. Formula gulf the same things. The ai drives as nobody was there. Even if you in front of corner. Some races were more than frustrating. Maybe some people should look a twitch pc cars streams. There you can see really the issues.

Francorchamps
21-05-2015, 17:38
pCars is a good simulation game but the AI is rubbish. I tried a quick weekend and the way the AI drives is just ridiculous. They are all over the place, constantly crashing into me etc... .

I think the AI is great. The more I play it the less I come in contact with them. There are two things I hate about them and that is that they pass you on the grass and that I don't know if they get penalties when they cut corners.

lacslyer
21-05-2015, 19:06
I wouldn't say the AI is that bad. I like that the AI in this game will challenge you. I am able to drive with the AI without getting crashed into all the time. The way they behave is predictable, so I've been able to adjust my driving to have a good experience racing with the AI. I don't know of any racing games with great AI, and the AI in this game is not bad compared to other games I've played (mainly gran turismo and codemasters f1 series).

I'd say it's predictable, in that you should avoid them at all costs when possible because you can rely on them nudging you at the very least. Just because it's possible to avoid the AI issues in the game (which it is by avoiding them on the track as much as you can) doesn't mean the AI is acceptable. We shouldn't have to learn how to drive against the AI in fear of the consequences of it.

As well, just because this AI may be better than other games doesn't mean it's acceptable. I'd agree completely that the AI in GT and F1 is terrible, but that doesn't give this game a pass on it. Especially when a game like rFactor can do it so much better.

JDFSSS
21-05-2015, 22:58
I'd say it's predictable, in that you should avoid them at all costs when possible because you can rely on them nudging you at the very least. Just because it's possible to avoid the AI issues in the game (which it is by avoiding them on the track as much as you can) doesn't mean the AI is acceptable. We shouldn't have to learn how to drive against the AI in fear of the consequences of it.

As well, just because this AI may be better than other games doesn't mean it's acceptable. I'd agree completely that the AI in GT and F1 is terrible, but that doesn't give this game a pass on it. Especially when a game like rFactor can do it so much better.

I don't think you have to avoid the AI at all times. I am able to execute passes on the AI without wrecking. However, if you are going through a turn that's not really suitable for side-by-side racing then you definitely have to avoid the AI at all costs because they will knock you off the track 100% of the time and will never concede the position even if it's a situation where they should. I do agree with you that the AI can be a lot better, and I would love to see it improved.

Mr Akina
21-05-2015, 23:08
Sometimes they are great; sometimes they are not so...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH1nPU-nGBU

JDFSSS
21-05-2015, 23:12
Sometimes they are great; sometimes they are not so...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH1nPU-nGBU

lol ouch. The AI is crazy in this game.

bill Sutton
22-05-2015, 01:19
Totally agree about the AI ...just doing a practice at Donningtion for Formula C British Championship and its fog and I have trouble keeping the car pointed in the right direction yet the AI cars fly past me . Yet in sunny conditions ( come on, the sun must shine sometimes in England ) I am over 5 seconds quicker. Even tired wet tyres but still spin and am a long way behind.

So maybe I have to tamper with setups to get more grip but then my good setup is gone ... cant save the bloody thing. I can see why this may be difficult in xbox and ps4 but in PC its a must.....you should be able at least to save for the track you are on and wet and dry but I guess this should be in a different thread.


And I had a good laugh after staying in the pits and adjusting setup I have a car coming from behind and get a blue flag and am told I should let him by ....do they give blue flags to ai because when you lap them they will just as likely wipe you out

nomen nescio
22-05-2015, 17:36
I wouldn't say the AI is that bad. I like that the AI in this game will challenge you. I am able to drive with the AI without getting crashed into all the time. The way they behave is predictable, so I've been able to adjust my driving to have a good experience racing with the AI. I don't know of any racing games with great AI, and the AI in this game is not bad compared to other games I've played (mainly gran turismo and codemasters f1 series).The AI can't stay on track. Of the 20 AI cars, at least 8 or 9 always go off track. I can't seem to drive an entire lap without being ran off by the AI in tight turns. People used to make fun of the GT4 AI but this is much worse. The AI are computer driven morons.
There is no fun in adjusting your driving to have a good exprerience. I drive as I drive and not the way the AI drives.
SMS should address this AI problem.

Niveous21
22-05-2015, 18:15
I'd say it's predictable, in that you should avoid them at all costs when possible because you can rely on them nudging you at the very least. Just because it's possible to avoid the AI issues in the game (which it is by avoiding them on the track as much as you can) doesn't mean the AI is acceptable. We shouldn't have to learn how to drive against the AI in fear of the consequences of it.

Spot on. Well said. This is exactly what people mean when they say they are getting used to the AI...they have subconsciously learned to acquiesce to the AI in all circumstances, for fear of getting tanked off the road if they actually try anything.

danpinho
22-05-2015, 20:31
The AI uses a more simple physics model of the player model (i.e. it's not a completely different model, just a slimmed down version of the player model). It's just not possible to run high numbers of AI cars using the full calculations it takes for the player car.
My logic tells me that if the "processor" was calculating my drive style it can continue calculating the AI driver. You're not adding a new driver to the equation, you're just trading one. Well, thats my logic after all and I can be wrong.

Mahjik
22-05-2015, 21:01
My logic tells me that if the "processor" was calculating my drive style it can continue calculating the AI driver. You're not adding a new driver to the equation, you're just trading one. Well, thats my logic after all and I can be wrong.

Unfortunately, your logic is off. The simulation engine is running calcs for each tire individually. With that, there are several layers of tread, and as well as the tire being segmented into sections (longitudinally and laterally) to be able to simulate tread verses carcass. Even without AI processing, the amount of section detail was dialed down as the more segments to keep track of during the simulation, more calculations are running (i.e. the calcs/interpretation are running for each divided segment). If a single user car can bring a CPU down to it's knees with only 4 tires being simulated to this level of detail, how can you expect to multiply that by 20 or 40? That's just too much for current hardware so the AI needs to use a slimmed down version of the model.

lacslyer
22-05-2015, 21:23
Spot on. Well said. This is exactly what people mean when they say they are getting used to the AI...they have subconsciously learned to acquiesce to the AI in all circumstances, for fear of getting tanked off the road if they actually try anything.

Agreed. People simply have gotten used to driving against the AI and assume that because they aren't having issues with that they're fine. This couldn't be further from the truth though. We shouldn't have to learn to drive against this games' AI for it to be acceptable.

nomen nescio
23-05-2015, 20:52
I started the Clio Cup today and I have to admit that the AI during qualifying drives a lot better (more realistically) than during a quick weekend race thing with the very Old Mercedes on the Zolder track.

I'm switching between Assetto Corse and pCars and I love both games a lot. But I think, I'm not sure though, that AC's AI is better than pCars's. Have to play some more to find out. pCars seems to have a lot of things from the original SHIFT game. Maybe I need to install it again.

I only need to get two more monitors, a professional steering wheel (Accuforce, Open sim wheel or the Pro SW basic or advanced), motion chair with "heave, yaw and maybe pitch and rol", pedals with clutch and the TH8A add-on shifter. :D :D :D
The T300RS is good but the rim itself is too small (personal preference) and there seems to be some latency (or how do you call it in English?).

John Hargreaves
23-05-2015, 21:39
A good tip with the AI is to not battle them so aggressively going into a corner, but hang back a bit to get better exit speed and cut back on them coming out of the turn into the following straight.