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DrJohnMacarthur
21-05-2015, 06:10
I wonder why when the game was release they did not release the best tune for each car? Would it good if we all paid to get this as a DLC? So we get almost the best tune for each car? Like settings better then default settings? Or perhaps Professional settings?

Cause why leave it up to us to learn about the settings when we already got the best of engine parts?

It would be so much easier for those who dont want to fiddle round with it and just get the best professional tune settings for each car and for each track.

Just load the settings and you can concentrate on your career and as you progress you can learn about it. Perhaps have it so in career mode you get to learn what all the settings do! You get taught what to do and what not too. And your settings can automatically upgrade as the game teaches you about it.

And when your online you dont need to worry about changing the settings. You can still can tweak it but the best setting will already be there. Not just basic default settings where if you want professional your on your own.

That way you can really concentrate on career instead of spending so much time reading up what each tune does for the car and for each track.

Again the tuning system is more like gaining XP and money cause you have to put alot of effort into understanding it. So it would be no different if they introduce complex upgrade parts for your car or even earning money or earning exp to unlock things.

What will be the differences? You still need to grind for tuning to get the best settings for that car and for that track. You basically unlocking the setting through knowledge.

So in a way the tuning system has distracted newbie players from really concentrating on being the best driver for Project cars. Cause they really have to grind to get the best setup. And all the interview i read was that the grinding for exp and cash would be remove so players can work on improving their skills on the road.

How can this be now when the tuning is just basic and not professional and best settings like the engines and parts in the car?

I dont think this is unfair to give players professional settings for each car as they already have given us the best engine for each car. So why not best tune setting too so we can concentrate driving instead of tweaking it????

Will it destroy the challenge if that was given to all the players?
Or is tuning there for the purpose of making it very challenging? So players cant just race and be first all the time? Perhaps it could be unlock as you progress? So you get better settings as you do more races and do more careers? And that way you can use those settings while racing online. So if its unfair then perhaps this idea? And if its no unfair then do hope professional settings can be release as a DLC if it requires lots of work.

Anyway if a paid DLC need to be release to get all this then i welcome it if it does require lots of work.

What does everyone think? Professional tune settings will really help players for each car and for each track and for each weather condition! :)

Project car is a really good game and not knocking it down but if they can release these settings as a DLC it would help all of us start racing on day 1! Then we newbie players can concentrate on learning how to drive on the track. There be no earning exp or money or trying to learn the tuning setup manually. All be taken away and you can concentrate just on driving and getting good at it.

I am not saying the tuning system should be taken away its good its there so if any further tweaks the players still have the option. But the main thing is that its not a heavy requirement to know how it all works on day 1. Just like you have the best engines and all the cars on day 1.

You get the best engine and the best tuning setup to drive on the track.

NVI0U5
21-05-2015, 06:31
This game is a simulator theres no magic tune, the factory tunes are good enough to learn how to drive with. In real life on the track the tune or setup is the difference between a teams success or failure in the teams physical control the rest is in the driver's hand.

Give one tune to two drivers it may work for one or it might work for none, everyone drives differently, some use assists some dont.
The variation in a tune to suit assist or unassisted is massive!!
Traction Control for an example you must setup the longitude weight bias to suit, springs, dampening, camber, to allow for squatting etc, then you have to setup the LS Accel lock, and then setup the gear ratio, and final drive so it is driveable without Traction.
There is no magic tune every tune works differently for every driver, its up to the driver to figure what works for them and what doesnt.

TrevorAustin
21-05-2015, 06:51
I must say i agree with this.

I get that it's a sim and not any one setup will fit everybody. But i got the game to race, not learn about tuning, etc. Its a rwcing sim, not management sim. So while a driver does have input in a car setup, the better ones a lot, it's done for them not by them.

I'm certainly looking forward to a way to share setups so the people that do enjoy this aspect share their work.

FA RACING 01
21-05-2015, 07:08
When I previewed this game before release I realised it's gonna be (1) a sim and (2) a tuners game. Thats what it turned out to be and the sole reason I bought it. Iwanted the real racing experience - practice, tune, practice, tune more etc. and that's what PCars gave me. If it allowed me on day one to jump in a car and drive the hell out of it, it would have bored me to death. I'm no tuner, but learning fast from friends and the community. Thats what's making it exciting for me. There are plenty other racing games where you can just race and race.

I really hope PCars keeps the game intact as is. As for the bugs, well, Rome was not built in one day, neither the other racing games currently available.

Mattias
21-05-2015, 07:23
The default tuning is "safe" so everyone can drive the cars.
They could have included tunes for fast cars, but that might be undriveable for the masses.
Not to mention you can't have a single fast tune that fits every track. The default tuning will however work on a lot of tracks.

As it is now, the default tuning is great and very competitive! I use the default tuning and win most of the races, if I didn't I messed up badly with my driving skills.
Even if they had default tunes which were "fast" from the beginning, a better driver would still be leaps faster.

Don't start with tuning, start with getting a better driving line, better throttle and brake control, learn trail braking, smooth inputs, especially steering.
Learn the corners going into straights first, you will gain the most time by getting on the acceleration faster onto the straights.

Other than that, tuning isn't black magic to make the car a super car. Making the car faster in corners might make it slower on straights. Everything has a trade off... Which then again depends on the track, one tune won't fit them all.

I'm not even sure what the point of this post is? Are you losing all the races in career? Or do you just want to get first on the leaderboards?

TrevorAustin
21-05-2015, 07:30
The default tuning is "safe" so everyone can drive the cars.
They could have included tunes for fast cars, but that might be undriveable for the masses.
Not to mention you can't have a single fast tune that fits every track. The default tuning will however work on a lot of tracks.

As it is now, the default tuning is great and very competitive! I use the default tuning and win most of the races, if I didn't I messed up badly with my driving skills.
Even if they had default tunes which were "fast" from the beginning, a better driver would still be leaps faster.

Don't start with tuning, start with getting a better driving line, better throttle and brake control, learn trail braking, smooth inputs, especially steering.
Learn the corners going into straights first, you will gain the most time by getting on the acceleration faster onto the straights.

Other than that, tuning isn't black magic to make the car a super car. Making the car faster in corners might make it slower on straights. Everything has a trade off... Which then again depends on the track, one tune won't fit them all.

I'm not even sure what the point of this post is? Are you losing all the races in career? Or do you just want to get first on the leaderboards?

Maybe just no interest in tuning, as i havent, i get limited time to play, no interest in the career, just want to race great cars riund great tracks. I got back from work yesterday at 9 and wanted to do a 2 hour race in the oreka. Not spend 45 minutes tweaking settings. I detest that aspect of any game. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be there, just has zero interest for me.

So i would like to see a fast setup per car per track. Either community or in house (community better as you can try several and see what suits you)

If tuning was needed to be at all competetive this game would be done for me already. Its just a frustration ans time waste i dont want.

menaceuk
21-05-2015, 07:32
I must say i agree with this.

I get that it's a sim and not any one setup will fit everybody. But i got the game to race, not learn about tuning, etc. Its a rwcing sim, not management sim. So while a driver does have input in a car setup, the better ones a lot, it's done for them not by them.

I'm certainly looking forward to a way to share setups so the people that do enjoy this aspect share their work.It is done for them, usually. However, the car is usually tuned to the driver & track. Each driver likes their car set up a little different. If you like tail breaking for example in the GT cars then a tune that does not suit that would be equally as worthless as what you consider the current tunes to be.

The tuning isn't even that hard. The basic concept of each bit is easy to understand and work with.

What do you guys think the practice rounds are for? They are for familiarising yourself with the track and dialling in the tune/car.

MysterG
21-05-2015, 07:33
I have never altered a setup and have great fun. Win a few lose a few.
Am progressing through my career quite nicely.

TrevorAustin
21-05-2015, 07:34
And why does every question STILL have someone come on to belittle the posters suggestion for not being hardcore sim enough! If that was all the developers wanted they would not be selling to consoles. It clearly isnt from their responses so stop trying to be so elitist and clever. That's annoying me a lot more than the tuning:)

If you don't see the point of it move on, don't try and put other people down

cerbrus2
21-05-2015, 07:41
I have never had a PC sim that gives you the best tune for the cars? And best engine parts? This isn't Gran Turismo.

Also car setup is somewhat of a personal preference. still give it a few months and most of the people who love doing car setups will have something for everyone. GTR, GPL, RFactor, iRacing etc all the great sims need car setups. And most of the time the community will supply you with them. iRacing is a bit different the way some of those guys go on you would think they are F1 engineers hiding a secret setup.

I do agree with the fact that the game could use a Quick setup for those that aren't interested in tuning like your self. A bit like the F1 games have. Speed or downforce. Oversteer or under steer, simple sliding scale setups that make it fast for drivers like the OP who don't have an interest in fine tweeting a setup.

FA RACING 01
21-05-2015, 07:44
And why does every question STILL have someone come on to belittle the posters suggestion for not being hardcore sim enough! If that was all the developers wanted they would not be selling to consoles. It clearly isnt from their responses so stop trying to be so elitist and clever. That's annoying me a lot more than the tuning:)

If you don't see the point of it move on, don't try and put other people down

Dont see any belittling or elitst here, neither putting anyone down. It's putting both sides of the coin on the table in a quite mature manner. Sure the OP will recognise that.

justonce68
21-05-2015, 07:55
The best and easiest way to improve your cars speed is to reduce the fuel load, in career you are over fuelled massively, everyone is capable of changing this and results will be instant. No complicated tuning. you wont get the best out of your car by just doing this, but you wont see the AI driving off into the distance on the straights either.

TrevorAustin
21-05-2015, 07:57
Yes that woukd be good, i prefer understeer to oversteer so could be good. Doesn't mean i want to take it away from those that like it!

And iracing, for example, I've tried that and its amazing in.the rift, but will never hqbe the tracks and.cars.i want. However, in load setups there's several ready to load, high downforce, low downforce, etc. Just a few clicks and you feel ready to try a new track without adjusting 40 or 50 thimgs, one at a time, do a couple of laps,etc. Do you guys realise just how long real testing takes for f1 cars? I habent got the time, inclination or patience for anything like that!

menaceuk
21-05-2015, 08:11
And why does every question STILL have someone come on to belittle the posters suggestion for not being hardcore sim enough! If that was all the developers wanted they would not be selling to consoles. It clearly isnt from their responses so stop trying to be so elitist and clever. That's annoying me a lot more than the tuning:)

If you don't see the point of it move on, don't try and put other people down

Not sure which thread you are reading, but it isn't this one. I see no belittling, trying to put others down, or elitism going on.

If you do not want to tune then don't. The basic set ups provided are good enough. You will simply have to learn how best to race with what you have. Otherwise, you will need to learn the basics of tuning.

FloF000
21-05-2015, 09:16
I wonder why when the game was release they did not release the best tune for each car?

Actually they provided already fairly nice setups for nearly every car. At least for every car I tested in the last period.
As others already mentioned, the perfect setup is very subjective. This might sound like a lame excuse, therefore I try to give examples.
Most setup changes which have a potential to make a car faster do have severe downsides. Now it is the question, if you can handle this downsides.
This is like financial investment. The deals with the highest potentials are the most risky ones. => rich or bankrupt, or in our case fast or crash

I try to give some examples:
The default setups have are quick setups with a slight tendency to understeer. That means, the car does not want to turn as fast as you want. This sounds frustrating, but it is way safer and better than the car turns faster than what you want. (which is oversteer) Oversteer is instable and very hard to deal with.
Now you can make a setup change to reduce the understeer, which necessarily means that you are much closer to the instability limit. This setup might be faster, but can you deal with it?

How can you reduce the understeer:
You have to improve front axle grip, or reduce rear axle grip. Its all about the balance of the car. For example: more front axle downforce from aero; less aero downforce on the rear; softer spring or stabilizer in the front; stiffer spring or stabilizer in the rear; moving brake distribution to the rear.

You can try this things step by step, but you will see how much harder it gets to handle the car. Still it might have a potential for faster lap times. What you will see for sure is, that the physic guy already did a splendid job on the setups and very often you just make it worse.

I am very pick with setups, but lately I don't feel the need to fiddle around in the garage. For now the defaults were good enough to fight for pole in the online races.

What I would really suggest you. Put the right amount of fuel in the car and drive, drive, drive. Learn the layout, find the ideal line, find the braking points, carry as much speed as possible through the curve and accelerate out of the curve as soon as possible. Here are your seconds!

Mattias
21-05-2015, 09:36
Maybe just no interest in tuning, as i havent, i get limited time to play, no interest in the career, just want to race great cars riund great tracks. I got back from work yesterday at 9 and wanted to do a 2 hour race in the oreka. Not spend 45 minutes tweaking settings. I detest that aspect of any game. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be there, just has zero interest for me.

So i would like to see a fast setup per car per track. Either community or in house (community better as you can try several and see what suits you)

If tuning was needed to be at all competetive this game would be done for me already. Its just a frustration ans time waste i dont want.

I have no interest in tuning either really. Which is why I use the default tuning 100% of the time. And I have no problems with it. I win my races in MP and I win them in SP and in Career. Leaderboards I get pretty high up on even with no tuning.
And it's the same for me, work all day, get home, very little time to race. Usually only get to do a single race (Practice, qual, race) which equals to 1-2 hours.

You can be very fast in the default tuning, but if you want to go even faster, of course you can tune it for it, with the risk of more difficult handling.

I won two private events so far with absolutely no tuning. Just clean racing. Even if the game gave you "fast setups" per car per track. Someone in the "default setup" might still be faster than you!

TrevorAustin
21-05-2015, 09:41
Not sure which thread you are reading, but it isn't this one. I see no belittling, trying to put others down, or elitism going on.

If you do not want to tune then don't. The basic set ups provided are good enough. You will simply have to learn how best to race with what you have. Otherwise, you will need to learn the basics of tuning.

I guess you don't even read the patronising in your own post above. I don't need to be told how to drive by somebody with probably 20 years less driving experience than me:) Yes that's me patronising you back! When somebody asks about a subject the standard answer doesn't have to be, just learn how to drive, lol. Or there is nothing wrong it was designed like that. If enough people would prefer a different tuning method then the developers should consider it.

I and the OP are making a post about the tuning aspects of it, which clearly, we both dislike. The same as other people are worrying about what gloves a driver is wearing or whether his helmet colour can be changed. That's what bothers them, I'm entitled to be bothered about whatever I like in the game. Do I care that 4 little virtual men don't come out and change my tyres in pit stops, not at all. Other people do.

TrevorAustin
21-05-2015, 09:42
I have no interest in tuning either really. Which is why I use the default tuning 100% of the time. And I have no problems with it. I win my races in MP and I win them in SP and in Career. Leaderboards I get pretty high up on even with no tuning.
And it's the same for me, work all day, get home, very little time to race. Usually only get to do a single race (Practice, qual, race) which equals to 1-2 hours.

You can be very fast in the default tuning, but if you want to go even faster, of course you can tune it for it, with the risk of more difficult handling.

I won two private events so far with absolutely no tuning. Just clean racing. Even if the game gave you "fast setups" per car per track. Someone in the "default setup" might still be faster than you!

Now that's the sort of answer I was hoping for:) excellent. And hopefully when I get good enough to threaten the tuning of my car there will be community setups like every other racing game I've ever played.

cerbrus2
21-05-2015, 10:01
I guess you don't even read the patronising in your own post above. I don't need to be told how to drive by somebody with probably 20 years less driving experience than me Yes that's me patronising you back! When somebody asks about a subject the standard answer doesn't have to be, just learn how to drive, lol. Or there is nothing wrong it was designed like that. If enough people would prefer a different tuning method then the developers should consider it.

I and the OP are making a post about the tuning aspects of it, which clearly, we both dislike. The same as other people are worrying about what gloves a driver is wearing or whether his helmet colour can be changed. That's what bothers them, I'm entitled to be bothered about whatever I like in the game. Do I care that 4 little virtual men don't come out and change my tyres in pit stops, not at all. Other people do.



I didn't see anybody telling you to learn how to drive. But after people have taken time to post a reply, with an explanation of why their is no such thing as a "ideal setup", apart from the base setup, that is made to be drivable by all by the way. And because any comment that is posted that isn't what you want to hear gets called patronizing by you, I may as well take off the kid gloves. This is a sim, In sim's you make your own setups. In real life Drivers tell their mechanic what setups they want or what to dial in. And yes they don't get a t-bar and start tweaking a bit a wing themselves but you are not doing that either, you are using sliding bars to tell the computer what to adjust. All racing drivers have a basic knowledge of what does what to a cars handling, they have to in order to tell mechanics what they think needs adjusting. If you cannot live with that fact then don't buy a sim. Try one of the hundreds of other racing games out there that don't require a fraction of knowledge about cars in general. Have you tried Outrun? apparently that comes with the ideal setup.

(yes that was Patronizing)

P.s you probably have more than 20 years driving experience over Lewis Hamilton too. Experience does not mean skill. (again that was also patronizing, you see the difference between patronizing and informative answers? {sorry if that comment seemed patronizing} )

TrevorAustin
21-05-2015, 10:50
I didn't see anybody telling you to learn how to drive. But after people have taken time to post a reply, with an explanation of why their is no such thing as a "ideal setup", apart from the base setup, that is made to be drivable by all by the way. And because any comment that is posted that isn't what you want to hear gets called patronizing by you, I may as well take off the kid gloves. This is a sim, In sim's you make your own setups. In real life Drivers tell their mechanic what setups they want or what to dial in. And yes they don't get a t-bar and start tweaking a bit a wing themselves but you are not doing that either, you are using sliding bars to tell the computer what to adjust. All racing drivers have a basic knowledge of what does what to a cars handling, they have to in order to tell mechanics what they think needs adjusting. If you cannot live with that fact then don't buy a sim. Try one of the hundreds of other racing games out there that don't require a fraction of knowledge about cars in general. Have you tried Outrun? apparently that comes with the ideal setup.

(yes that was Patronizing)

P.s you probably have more than 20 years driving experience over Lewis Hamilton too. Experience does not mean skill. (again that was also patronizing, you see the difference between patronizing and informative answers? {sorry if that comment seemed patronizing} )

Aren't you clever, no I just don't like children attempting to talk down to me, but then I don't have to listen do I:) the tone of a large number of the established members is matched by the ones trying to join the uber cool in crowd. And rarely matched by the mods and devs, who all seem pretty reasonable. See ya.

Mrbrown33
21-05-2015, 11:00
Mario cart has great basic setups, maybe some of you would be better playing that? Sorry couldn't help myself ��

thevilleky
21-05-2015, 11:29
I have never had a PC sim that gives you the best tune for the cars? And best engine parts? This isn't Gran Turismo.

Also car setup is somewhat of a personal preference. still give it a few months and most of the people who love doing car setups will have something for everyone. GTR, GPL, RFactor, iRacing etc all the great sims need car setups. And most of the time the community will supply you with them. iRacing is a bit different the way some of those guys go on you would think they are F1 engineers hiding a secret setup.

I do agree with the fact that the game could use a Quick setup for those that aren't interested in tuning like your self. A bit like the F1 games have. Speed or downforce. Oversteer or under steer, simple sliding scale setups that make it fast for drivers like the OP who don't have an interest in fine tweeting a setup.

I like this idea. The tunes wouldn't be "perfect" but you could get a base tune that either oversteered a bit or understeered a bit, etc. For me though the game is about the tuning, and practice, then tune, then practice, etc. I read a post about the clio at donnington and I was happy running 1:21's on the track. Then I saw somebody tuned the car and was running consistent 1:18's. I'm like, wait a minute, I'm a fairly quick driver, why can't I run a 1:18.

So I got to tinkering, read up on tuning again, messed with the fast and slow rebound, the diff's, and the sway bars. Ran a 1:18.3 the other day. Almost 3 seconds faster just because of the tuning. The satisfaction was knowing I did the tune, and then running the hell out of it. Was on pace several times to run a 1:17, but just couldn't pull it off. I think with a few more tweaks, and a great lap I can run a 1:17.5 or lower. I love seeing a time, thinking you could never reach it, and then just getting closer and closer, and finely realizing you are running consistent laps 2, 3, or 4 seconds faster then you ever thought you could.

hkraft300
21-05-2015, 11:40
Why the complaints against having the option of tuning? If you don't want to spend 4 hours hot lapping to learn a car/track and tune for it, then don't! It's something some of us love to geek out on, and others loathe.

The base tunes for every car are good enough and from what I've seen the FA and Prototypes all have different tunes for almost every track.

If you like the way a car feels - leave it. If you see space for improvement, see:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?26349-Tuning-Chart

Tuning hasn't made me much faster - practice has. Tuning has just altered the car to my preference slightly so I enjoy driving it more and be a little more consistent.

cerbrus2
21-05-2015, 12:18
Aren't you clever, no I just don't like children attempting to talk down to me, but then I don't have to listen do I:) the tone of a large number of the established members is matched by the ones trying to join the uber cool in crowd. And rarely matched by the mods and devs, who all seem pretty reasonable. See ya.

Uber cool crowd on a virtual racing sim forum? where do I sign up? mods?

menaceuk
21-05-2015, 15:15
I guess you don't even read the patronising in your own post above. I don't need to be told how to drive by somebody with probably 20 years less driving experience than me:) Yes that's me patronising you back! When somebody asks about a subject the standard answer doesn't have to be, just learn how to drive, lol. Or there is nothing wrong it was designed like that. If enough people would prefer a different tuning method then the developers should consider it.

I and the OP are making a post about the tuning aspects of it, which clearly, we both dislike. The same as other people are worrying about what gloves a driver is wearing or whether his helmet colour can be changed. That's what bothers them, I'm entitled to be bothered about whatever I like in the game. Do I care that 4 little virtual men don't come out and change my tyres in pit stops, not at all. Other people do.

There is nothing patronizing in what I said. I didn't tell you to do anything. I simply stated what your options are.

You are complaining about an issue that would always exist with base tunes designed to be drive-able by the majority. You are free to dislike it, nobody is telling you that you must love it. People are simply trying to explain why it is the way it is.

HBR-Roadhog
21-05-2015, 17:42
I find the default tunes quite drivable, especially if you enable TC/ABS and ASM. Most are also drivable without assists.
At this point I have not dived into the tuning aspect much. Basically be running and winning with mostly default setups. Only things I have been changing are tires [I don't trust the auto setting because there is no way of knowing which tire you actually have], brake pressure and steering ratio on a few of the cars.

The tuning aspect is one of the selling points for me while I can drive pretty much any tune I like my cars a certain way and I rather enjoy tweaking them to get more out of them where I can. If there were no tuning in the game I definitely would not have bought it.

I remember when I bought Horizon thinking that I wasn't sure if I would like it or not but was floored when I saw that you could not alter the tuning at all in it. Not even a simple sway bar adjustment. I traded the game in right away I did not even look at Horizon 2.

Even GT allows you to tune and requires you to tweak tunes to get the car the way you want it in order to be competitive same for Forza and any other racing game worth playing.

As others have said there is no magic tune for everyone. Different people like different things and some will be faster with a car tuned one way where others will be faster tuned another way. Some will be faster overall in a slower tune just because it is easier to keep on the track than a tune that is faster but loose and on the edge all the time.

menaceuk
21-05-2015, 17:49
I find the default tunes quite drivable, especially if you enable TC/ABS and ASM. Most are also drivable without assists.
At this point I have not dived into the tuning aspect much. Basically be running and winning with mostly default setups. Only things I have been changing are tires [I don't trust the auto setting because there is no way of knowing which tire you actually have], brake pressure and steering ratio on a few of the cars.

The tuning aspect is one of the selling points for me while I can drive pretty much any tune I like my cars a certain way and I rather enjoy tweaking them to get more out of them where I can. If there were no tuning in the game I definitely would not have bought it.

I remember when I bought Horizon thinking that I wasn't sure if I would like it or not but was floored when I saw that you could not alter the tuning at all in it. Not even a simple sway bar adjustment. I traded the game in right away I did not even look at Horizon 2.

Even GT allows you to tune and requires you to tweak tunes to get the car the way you want it in order to be competitive same for Forza and any other racing game worth playing.

As others have said there is no magic tune for everyone. Different people like different things and some will be faster with a car tuned one way where others will be faster tuned another way. Some will be faster overall in a slower tune just because it is easier to keep on the track than a tune that is faster but loose and on the edge all the time.

FYI, Horizon 2 has all the tuning of a Forza game. Suspension, alignment, brakes, diff, aero, etc. It also has all the Upgrade stuff.

WARDOGZ.UK
21-05-2015, 18:30
The basic settings are fine for those that don't want the 'bother' to experiment and tune, but don't expect to win online or get up with the fastest times if you cannot be bothered to put the effort in, why should you? If you put the effort in you will gain the rewards, IF you just want to casually pick up and play , you can do that too @ stock settings, but don't expect to get an automatic 'i'm as fast as bob whose spent all week tweaking' result, you won't and you shouldn't :p

CTR69
21-05-2015, 20:45
Setups aren't gonna turn you into an alien driver. Lots (years) of practice, hotlaps, consistency, online play and studying racecraft will.

Like with anything in life, nothing will be magically provided for free. I'd love to play a guitar like Ewan Dobson and you can give me the best tuned one, it wouldn't make any difference. I don't know anything about playing it.

Umer Ahmad
21-05-2015, 21:12
There is no Best/Fastest setup. Depends too much on driver/track/conditions.

We're going to have to rely on ourselves here guys & girls. Ask questions, give advice, practice, rinse and repeat.

I would say the basics are Braking (Bias, ducts, pressure) and aero (Low/High downforce). Then move on to the other areas.

Neil Bateman
21-05-2015, 21:14
I used to race nr2003 in leagues a few years ago, each car had an easy, medium and hard set up for each track, non of those set ups were any good for me at all, even set ups given to me or that i downloaded were ok but i was never fast enough with unless i made changes.

The point is even if you had three fixed set up optios for each car and each track does not mean they would suit your driving style anymore than the current default, because the person creating them is basing those set ups on how the cars feel for the way he drives them which might be totaly different to how you drive.

You can only start with the default and like i did describe on the forum what is causing you the most problems, understeer, oversteer etc...... and ask for suggestions on the best settings to change, you would be surprised how few changes can make a big difference to how the car drives and how much your lap times will improve.

ceeece
22-05-2015, 04:31
I agree. We are the racers not the engineers! The game says an engineer will help troubleshoot problems, but that's a feature that seems to be laid by the way side. I wish there was an option for both the tinkerers and those of us that just want to race.

Umer Ahmad
22-05-2015, 04:40
hehe, some WMD members even wanted the player to manage the "team finances" so if you crashed you had to pay for it etc. and hire crew people.

Guess people are not ready for that either.

Rift Racer
22-05-2015, 05:04
I don't understand why 'those of you who just want to race' aren't just racing? But instead are on the forum complaining about lack of simple tuning options / different default tune options.... :confused:

ceeece
22-05-2015, 05:17
The default tunes suck. Every car needs some amount of tweaking to make the racing enjoyable.

TSells31
22-05-2015, 05:27
Most great racing sims (iRacing, rFactor, NR2003, etc) have required decent setup knowledge to be the best. If you want to be the best sim racer, you have to learn all the details that come with real racing, since, ya know, they are designed to simulate real racing as closely as possible. The default setups are plenty fast for a learner who doesn't want to tune their car or doesn't yet know how, you just can't play on as high of a difficulty setting. Who cares about that anyway? Since there are no scores or anything. You'll only be at a disadvantage online. This has been the case as well with every great racing sim. If you want to beat other human players, you'll just have to learn enough about tuning to be fast enough. That's sim racing.

As has been stated, it would be nice if there was an f1 game style quick setup menu, where you can just adjust general qualities with sliders. That would help for the people who don't feel like learning to tune, they just wouldn't be quite as quick online still.

Umer Ahmad
22-05-2015, 05:34
Shift 1 (and maybe Shift2?) had "Quick Setup" menus but honestly they seemed easy at first but then you were never sure what exactly was being changed. And then when you went down to the detailed menu you did not see the changes the Quick Menu applied so it all become untrustworthy.

My main suggestion for new guys is:

1. Take only the required fuel for your race (GT cars use a little less than 3L/lap most GP tracks)
2. Adjust your brakes FOR YOUR STYLE (so Pressure, Bias and Ducts)
3. Adjust your wings (high/low downforce) for the track and conditions
4. Pick the right tyres for your race (soft slicks for anything less than 20 laps, rain tires obviously for rain)

The more advanced stuff you can focus on later.

FloF000
22-05-2015, 07:16
The default tunes suck. Every car needs some amount of tweaking to make the racing enjoyable.

I couldn't disagree more!

hkraft300
22-05-2015, 08:22
For those of you who don't want to tune the cars and don't like the base tune - that's why we have this garage section on this forum (which I think is fantastic for those sharing setup tips and tunes - It's your personal race engineer: Community BEN!)

Fight-Test
22-05-2015, 12:22
alot of Cole Trickles in here. If your a racer and don't know about tuning and how to tell to at least tell your engineer what the car is doing than your not a real racer. If you can tell your slow in corner exit because of oversteer then you know that X is what you tune. So many guides and books about this. Very easy if you know how to read the car. Dont worry about the actual tuning numbers and all that. Just feel the car and decide what you need to be better then look at your guide and make adjustments. then drive more laps. then more adjustments. keep repeating. Even in racing karts I spend two days of tuning and running laps for just a 20 lap race. This is what racing is.

dyr_gl
22-05-2015, 12:45
I couldn't disagree more!

Hear me: default settings are A TOTAL JOKE.

Overall aero levels, cooling, and some basic suspension settings relevant to the track should be already within reasonable ranges. You shouldn´t find your GT3 car that you want to drive at Monza has 9 wings, stiff suspensions that hate curbs and cooling options that make the car mega draggy.

Then there are blatant mistakes on defaults that are not even track specific. The gearing of the Formula A has a mega dangerous too short 2nd gear that is very prone to make you spin when downshfting. And I better not mention the default FFB settings...

tux1234
22-05-2015, 12:47
Hear me: default settings are A TOTAL JOKE.

Overall aero levels, cooling, and some basic suspension settings relevant to the track should be already within reasonable ranges. You shouldn´t find your GT3 car that you want to drive at Monza has 9 wings, stiff suspensions that hate curbs and cooling options that make the car mega draggy.

Then there are blatant mistakes on defaults that are not even track specific. The gearing of the Formula A has a mega dangerous too short 2nd gear that is very prone to make you spin when downshfting. And I better not mention the default FFB settings...

So dont use the 2nd gear? You rarely need to.

Bealdor
22-05-2015, 12:50
Hear me: default settings are A TOTAL JOKE.

Overall aero levels, cooling, and some basic suspension settings relevant to the track should be already within reasonable ranges. You shouldn´t find your GT3 car that you want to drive at Monza has 9 wings, stiff suspensions that hate curbs and cooling options that make the car mega draggy.

Then there are blatant mistakes on defaults that are not even track specific. The gearing of the Formula A has a mega dangerous too short 2nd gear that is very prone to make you spin when downshfting. And I better not mention the default FFB settings...

The default setups were created to be safe for gamepad driving. Are they the fastest available? No. Are they crap? Definitely not.
I can easily take the McLaren GT3 or Audi R8 LMS and do some fun racing with AI@90% on default setup.

MULTIVITZ
27-05-2015, 20:54
I'm a very competent chassis tuner and a trained diagnostic engine tuner by trade. I heard the tunes were made to be drivable and reflect the cars characteristics. Tyres need scrubbing in from cold to realise their best grip. And on cold rubber it's not good, but when a tune comes together it tends to drive better from cold(just watch for collapsing side walls!). I made a plea for tyre blankets but no one cares, it seems the tuning has to be a slow process of learning the whole chassis's needs and adjustment character by trial and knowledge. I have met very few people who tune and really know what they're actually doing or what is happening(with or without telemetry). I publish my tunes to help people get started. Remember its our game, get involved through the suggestion thread. Things will improve, I don't know what they have up there sleeves. But its early days.

MULTIVITZ
27-05-2015, 21:01
Daunting and impossible for some, daunting and hard for others, easy for a few. Time consuming for all, but giving the ultimate thrill in the end.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 01:36
If you like tuning get yourself in the suggestion thread and ask for a quicker method. For every adjustment you want try out, you need to press and scroll about 16 buttons!!! And no I am not joking. No one will disagree with me on this because I am right. Now imagine you had to do a few dozen alterations/adjustments to find an ideal sweet spot on a differential. If you like playing the mindless facebook games and wear out your devices fine, get button pressing. Remember The winter Olympics on the Atari? Its got nothing on this game!
They are refusing to do an option for preheated scub tyres in free play. MADNESS you got it.
My guess is that they wanted to hook in buyers from the consol market to make up sales, misdirected marketing ploy at this time of writting as the tuning telemetry app isn't available for them, and would make the task of tuning more complete and faster than just having the standard tiny hud the game comes with.
Utterly tiring in a needless long winded menu system. Its a simulator, I could alter the tracking on one of my own cars quicker that this bloody game, and that really is no exaggeration!
99% of the people can't tune, some want to learn and have a go. The game itself and the community as a whole are stopping it happening. Thats my impression. A business model that needs reiteration, but firmly holds fast to its tracks as monetarily balanced fortitude tells the conceptualist everything is fine, the dough's rolling in. Turn 10 all over again. If enough ain't happy, we'll do something. If they are used to it (difficulty in tuning) leave it as is, only a few aren't happy. Can't see the wood for the trees. I can see lots of potential, but you can't see the potential of lots. Unless its racing, or cash?
As it stands you are looking at 8 hours per car to get it gripping well, another 4 for a track. I could spend another 20 hours making it a fine tune.
Ask yourself, do you know exactly what you are doing in that space of time, could you spend that amout of time, do you want to spend that amount of time away from your friends pressing buttons and concentrating about a complex subject?
We all stand for freedom, this game layout incrotches that and spoils its experience in many ways.
I'm exercising my freedom of speech. I hope my words are taken better than my time and my money and issues resolved that in the current standing are just wrong. I dont mind waiting months.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 02:20
You better tell someone who cares, if you can find anyone!

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 07:43
Please don't think, I, personally, have popped, or come to the end of my tether. Please don't judge others by your own standards.
The post needs to be read over again at speed with heart. A skill some like to poke fun at, because the tv bludgeons them into it.
They'll be saying, ' the best driving game, that took forever to sort out your cars ', then the new one came out, but by that time we were playing Gran turismo/Forza! Still it had good realism!
Go and suggest it, you're out of order, thats not the way, I can't understand, ad hominem, some of it i don't get, gives everyone a chance, makes it realistic, stop your whining, why should you worry, fine as is, don't talk to him the problem will go away.
Classic burying your head in the sand behaviour. 'Lets protect the tyre program' taken too far.
In the words of Tyler Durden, 'JUST LET GO!'.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 08:23
It would be alright if we had a 'race engineer', another marketing ploy, sorry I should say lie?
My alarm bells were ringing because in every replay I saw on youtube the cars weren't right, the roll centres were too high, the damping was wrong, the real life cars were being driven slow. One of two professionals said they match thier times, I don't doubt it.
The game developers haven't got a chassis tuning expert to build a virtual race engineer have they, if so there wouldn't just be 'go get the pole'.There would be more. Instead they are reaching out to the gaming community, what do you want? Oh you've got a race engineer. I don't think he's man enough.
Did you see the end of the Clio Cup real life comparison, the guy in the real life Clio gets a move on and the Project cars tuned Clio can't keep up. With a setup I made in a few hours you would do more than keep up!
I don't want to be anyones race engineer, the game as far as I can see doesn't have an engineer and the game won't let you engineer for a multitude of reasons.
I don't want anyones shame so please any staff don't think about apologising to me, and in this matter to anyone else.
The race engineer the games got couldn't engineer a sandwich!

JDFSSS
28-05-2015, 09:16
The default tunes could be better, but I don't think it's much trouble to change the aero/gearing/brakes/cooling/fuel to reasonable levels. It takes about 1 minute, and doesn't require in depth set up knowledge at all. After you do that, most of the default setups are pretty good. If someone is still way faster than you after you do that, it's probably because they are simply better at that car/track combination (or they are corner cutting lol) and not because of a magic setup.

If you are expecting someone to provide you with the "best" setup for each car/track, you are in for a big disappointment. There is no best set up and a set up that is fast for one driver might be terrible for someone else. You are going to have to learn how to tune and put in the effort yourself if you want your perfect setup. If you can't be bothered to put in a bit of effort to learn how things work, then you don't deserve to be as fast as someone who is willing to put in the effort. If you can't accept that then racing sims are not for you.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 09:37
You're right and my point is your gonna have to tune. Its not fun tuning at any level when it takes a very long time. You just talking about tweaking its not the same as tuning mate. I talk to motor vehicle engineering degree graduates and most are not aware of chassis tuning in reality. Reread all the posts. Game improvement for the gamers, thats you, will be artificially SLOW. End of.

danowat
28-05-2015, 09:41
The tuning is no more difficult or time consuming than any other racing sim.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 09:44
Artaficially slow = game intrest time get lengthened at your button pressing expense. Bet Sony love 'im.lol imo

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 09:47
The tuning is easier.Theres just more to look out for.Your buggered 'cause the level of knowledge is so rare that even the game developers can't give you a proper race engineer.

Neil Hopwood
28-05-2015, 09:50
The tuning is easier.Theres just more to look out for.Your buggered 'cause the level of knowledge is so rare that even the game developers can't give you a proper race engineer.

Such rare info that a five second Google search brings up a dozen or so setup guides.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 10:02
I don't feel warning everyone about something thats genuinely important to all players is spamming. But otherwise we'll be a mass of button pressing drones just relishing in mindless race action and not improving our enjoyment and game skills fast enough. Your seeing it already, simple setup reajustment requests turning into a headless chicken thread. No offence given. Its a complex subject granted, a slow uptake of tuning skills is expected, not required, either way its going to be ridiculously slow. Slow to get tunes, slow to make tunes, slow to analyse tunes, slow on track improvements, slow learning in all departments. And no it won't allow the stragglers to catch up, people are pissed off with the slow time it took to setup there controllers, the stragglers maybe your friends, how are you going to help them?

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 10:06
Such rare info that a five second Google search brings up a dozen or so setup guides.

Hardly complete and half of them are written by boys.
How can a tuning guide speed up your tuning when every adjustment takes ages and ages, then you wonder what if I adjusted the other way. I dont wonder I do when it comes to tuning and it will take toooooo long. Reread the thread, you're not the lazy type are you?

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 10:20
Tuning guides can guide you the only way to learn is by doing. The trouble I'm warning everyone about today is the slow doing. The communities slow realisation that this is how to learn, by doing. Most are clueless to how massive the subect is, 3 years on a degree couse and you might get to grips with chassis tuning, 3 years on a full time course just for the basics! Why does anyone not realise thats why theres no replies to this thread from a professional chassis tuner, none. This thread was started in the same manner by a resposable professional, go check his profile?

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 10:31
The tuning is no more difficult or time consuming than any other racing sim.

Ok...... we haven't got a symetrical tuning adjustment option (its needed for base tuning), you have to slide the sliders to see all settings top to bottom, 20 odd button presses needed if you use time trial thats got warm tyres (did they remove the blankets alright), driving a few laps to simulate cold starts (which is fine imo) then make adjustments (NO OTHER WAYS), no race engineer ( I'm not talking about the personal race manager that talks to you now and then), getting the wrong advise from unlearned tuners on here and going on a goose chase......what a silly statement, go reread this thread. Whos next....anyone.

donpost
28-05-2015, 10:37
To be fair, I'm not sure anyone is entirely sure what the smeg you are going on about...:confused:

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 10:40
The tuning is no more difficult or time consuming than any other racing sim.

Ok...... we haven't got a symetrical tuning adjustment option (its needed for base tuning), you have to slide the sliders to see all settings top to bottom, 20 odd button presses needed if you use time trial thats got warm tyres (did they remove the blankets alright), driving a few laps to simulate cold starts (which is fine imo) then make adjustments (NO OTHER WAYS), no race engineer ( I'm not talking about the personal race manager that talks to you now and then), getring the wrong advise from unlearned tuner on here......what a silly statement, go reread this thread. Whos next....anyone.

Bealdor
28-05-2015, 10:47
...Whos next....anyone.

Yes, me. Please stay away from calling other people's opinions "silly" just because they don't agree with you. Thanks.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 10:49
To be fair, I'm not sure anyone is entirely sure what the smeg you are going on about...:confused:

Get in the Lotus 98T and start to tune it so you can nail it through all gears on full boost without the traction control on, it is possible, come back to me when you're finished. It ain't a trick, I'll make it easier for you. Do it on Lemanns. See you some time in the distant future, they may take you on at one of the F1 academies.

danowat
28-05-2015, 10:52
Get in the Lotus 98T and start to tune it so you can nail it through all gears on full boost without the traction control on, it is possible, come back to me when you're finished. It ain't a trick, I'll make it easier for you. Do it on Lemanns. See you some time in the distant future, they may take you on at one of the F1 academies.

:confused:, bonkers

The 98T has 1300bhp, there is no way you can "tune" it to give you full traction at full throttle in every gear, that's nothing to do with tuning, that's physics.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:01
Yes, me. Please stay away from calling other people's opinions "silly" just because they don't agree with you. Thanks.

Its about wrong and right, chassis tuning is complicated it doesn't require incomplete guides. Folks need to read books, even the university levers can't tune properly. The guides are silly in my eyes, sorry. They help and hinder in so many ways. The help from the two race proffesionals was spot on and they did try and give context to the advise. They were generalising what they do to encourage intrest in the sport. Theres not a best way, but understanding a better way is upto you. Each author has their own angle on car handling, but they all sing from the same song sheet. Its complicated, and the stuff I mentioned will ultimately cause rifts in ways the community can't see. You're one of us, go reread the thread.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:05
:confused:, bonkers

The 98T has 1300bhp, there is no way you can "tune" it to give you full traction at full throttle in every gear, that's nothing to do with tuning, that's physics.

Close to 1200bhp not 1300, how do I know that...mmmmmm...let me see?

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:07
Controlled weight transfere and slip angles allow wheel spin in a controlled manner.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:08
Controlled weight transfere and slip angles allow wheel spin in a controlled manner.

Now thats physics you may not be aware of young man.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:11
Some wedge involved to, that is more important with this type of vehicle.....next.

Roger Prynne
28-05-2015, 11:13
Now your talking to yourself???

Neil Hopwood
28-05-2015, 11:14
Now your talking to yourself???


0retty sure he's been talking to himself for a while now?

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:16
You know something we don't fan boy?? Im confused haven't you bothered reading?

Invincible
28-05-2015, 11:18
May it be 100 hp more or less. danowat is still right - this is bonkers.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:19
Form an orderly que. But a bit of ad homin was already on the list in my other longer post. Too much to read eh? I got taught if you ain't got nothing good to say, don't say anything. Its called manners and respect. Latin re(again) spect ( to look).

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:22
Next.....looks like no one has anything good to say? Its good to keep positive:)

choupolo
28-05-2015, 11:22
I agree with Multivitz in many ways and in some ways I don't.

I like pCARS. I can compete with AI and online with a stock setup (at least in the few cars I've driven so far), even with a controller on PS4. I've won a few races online as well.

I'm finding time trials and SMS-R events are hard to get into the top 10 (around top 50 my best so far at the end of the last SMS-R at Silverstone). This is good. I like a challenge.

Aside from corner cutting confusing the issue - many times above mine were on a wheel and via a tuned setup. Also good, that's how it should be. Time invested in tuning should be rewarded, and I shouldn't expect to compete with top 10 times without at least delving into tuning to some extent.

Where I agree with Multivitz is the accessibility of the tuning system. For someone like me who has very limited knowledge and experience of tuning, limited time to invest, but who is very much interested in getting my hands dirty with it - the process of tuning is harder than it could be. It could be much better, more streamlined, more helpful, quicker to implement changes, share knowledge, see results etc. That's either going to take time, listening to that section of the community or you're just going to have to wait for pCARS 2 or 3.

I do feel as though pCARS is the first racing game, where I've felt that tuning and tuning well was mandatory part of the game to progress online, rather than just an option. So it becomes a tuning game rather than a racing game. Maybe this isn't so good, I dunno. (Need to add some stock tune events?)

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:28
I remeber when fms5 was saying you could tune from the track pause menu. Everyone said thats marvelous, I've toned my language down but you get the picture. Some things are nessecary, some things are unnessecary. The community here is having trouble. I'm part of the community.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:34
Its a fantastic game, just a bit slow on the uptake of gamer demands, some of the needs out way the demands. Its really not about numbers or costs or realism. They are in essence a smoke screen, they always will be. The mature members of society reconise them for what they are.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:44
Driving a car in the game should have predicable handling, thats a realism. Tuning it well is complicated and difficult for some, thats a realism. It takes time to learn, thats a realism. You learn this type of thing through doing. Do the game designers want you to spend 5 maybe 10 years doing, to learn? Realism, the look of dred on the professional drivers face when asked to give examples of vehicle adjustment! Imo

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:45
Next....please.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 11:58
If anyone wants to find this thread easiser just search atari

Everyone needs to do their bit thats how a community works, I know you feel you don't want, but you need to do your bit. 1 pm and 1 spam report and one credit thats all this community has give to this matter. I didn't expect much, so now the 1500 odd views are silent in there actions. Thats exactly what I'm talking about. You ain't sowing anything! Expect a duff game experience, in reality. Because thats all ya gonna reap. In my opinion.

It won't land in your laps. It really won't. The mods have done thier bit today, now you've got to do yours.
There's no them or us, just us.

JeyD02
28-05-2015, 12:04
Tunning can be fun, and it can be less complicated. One just need to understand what factors affect the condition of the car, road, heat and other aspects of tunning. When you understand the fundamental for each part then by practice you begin to dial on what parts are being affected as well. Sometimes little adjustment are required then you keep improving other parts but if you tweak many things that once the car becomes unstable.

Practice practice and fun doing it, you'll build your pattern for tunning. You need knowledge for driving, how you drive it, what the drivers demanding, knowledge of track and it's characteristics and you begin to head the right path for tunning.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 12:22
Tunning can be fun, and it can be less complicated. One just need to understand what factors affect the condition of the car, road, heat and other aspects of tunning. When you understand the fundamental for each part then by practice you begin to dial on what parts are being affected as well. Sometimes little adjustment are required then you keep other parts but if you tweak many things that once the car becomes unstable.

Practice practice and fun doing it, you'll build your pattern for tunning. You need knowledge for driving, how you drive it, what the drivers demanding, knowledge of track and it's characteristics and you begin to head the right path for tunning.

Ok thats fine you're entitled to your opinions, so you don't mind pressing nearly 30 button to make a setup adjustment with no in game advise!?

Seeing as everyone has so much time....Did anyone see the full length of that bbc interview with Dr Harrit, bit of an eye opener, a sign of the times?

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 12:26
Lovely guy. Next one......

Invincible
28-05-2015, 12:40
You do have a point on the accessibility for the tuning. And I also would like to have access to the tuning screens from the pause menu.

But I still think that you are pushing this too far. Your opinion has been heard. But repeating it in nearly every post and referring to this thread nearly everywhere you post isn't exactly helping to take you seriously.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 12:46
That was earlier this morning. (Guess he's just started his shift, good man) It shouldn't have to be done. Thanks for your concern. I hope you will be doing something about it and not just putting a reply here and leaving the matter to others (they are a bit slow?). Thanks again. I will be helpful as usual, time permitting.

Invincible
28-05-2015, 13:13
I can't do anything about it. I am not a dev, nor am I in any way part of SMS.

I am pretty sure they have seen this thread and as I already said: To keep on pestering the devs and other forum users about it won't help you.
Just keep calm and hope for the best. You made your point and now it is up to SMS if they make it happen of not. But you have to bring to your mind that you can't force it and neither can I.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 13:14
Whats too far? Complaining about me posting these concerns in other threads, why? I see thread after thread of users asking for help. They are seldom satified! It doesn't have to be like this we get told, we get told that by you guys all the time. Too far indeed.
Thanks for the great example.:)

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 13:17
No its not up to SMS! We keep getting told about 'ultimate suggestion thread' and how important it is. Read it, very very little about this recent thread is in there, let alone voted on. imo

Next please..........

Bealdor
28-05-2015, 13:26
No its not up to SMS! We keep getting told about 'ultimate suggestion thread' and how important it is. Read it, very very little about this recent thread is in there, let alone voted on. imo

Next please..........

The suggestion thread is there for a reason. It's there so that the devs can quickly find all the good suggestions that could be implemented in the game.

So, if you have a good suggestion (and I indeed think that your "better access to tuning" suggestion is a good one) then post it in the mentioned Thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?21985-Project-Cars-Ultimate-Suggestion-Thread) once and I can assure it will be acknowledged by the devs.

Thread closed as we're running in circles here right now.