PDA

View Full Version : [LMP1] R18/Marek/RWD Unbalanced



RDogg
21-05-2015, 22:25
The Audi R18 does not have KERS available. The Marek and RWD do. Considering those were developed by the community (Am I correct?) this seems like a fairly major oversight. I've raced the R18 on Spa, Le Mans Short Circuit, and Abu Dhabi, and the R18 can between a whole 3-6 seconds off the pace of the other two.

The R18 is just so down on power without KERS, I've noticed a lot of people not using the R18. Something needs to be done about this, even if the R18 doesn't have KERS in reality, the LMP1 class is just un-balanced.

TrevorAustin
21-05-2015, 22:51
Confused, if it doesn't have it then it shouldn't get i? Or then its back to the whole tuning argument and adding turbos etc that the dev team seem 100% against.

GenBrien
21-05-2015, 23:01
the only thing that was done by the commuinity is the concept/drawing of the car.

eracerhead
21-05-2015, 23:08
Fact is that the new R18 e-tron is licensed and will eventually be in the game, and will be quite the match for the other LMPs. And we certainly can't bump up the old car with KERS as Audi would not approve that at all.

The older car was one of the very first built, back when the game was more of a proof-of-concept than anything else. It was included as much for posterity as anything else, so it's not exactly surprising that it's not up to the speeds of newer machinery (fictional or no).

RDogg
21-05-2015, 23:09
I believe it's the 2011 version of the R18 that won Le Mans that year. However it's in a class with two cars that generally feel and seem quicker, and also have KERS. I'm not saying the R18 should, for reality purposes. But I would like to know the reason why the other two do. IMO it needs to be removed from the other two to at least draw them closer.

Without the ability to force a selection of certain cars, all you can do is tell people not to take one or the other. The R18 is basically an LMP2 on comparison to those two.

Mahjik
21-05-2015, 23:10
Considering those were developed by the community (Am I correct?) this seems like a fairly major oversight.

As mentioned the 2014 Audi R18 will be coming, but the two community cars were designed to 2014 specs (which means the 2011 Audi R18 will be at a disadvantage on large tracks).

Mahjik
21-05-2015, 23:14
But I would like to know the reason why the other two do. IMO it needs to be removed from the other two to at least draw them closer.

As I just mentioned, it's because the two community cars were design to 2014 specs.

RDogg
21-05-2015, 23:15
Yeah sorry I edited that just before your response.

Appreciate the response.

Azure Flare
21-05-2015, 23:33
I thought they were 2013 spec cars. Neither the P30 or 339H have 7-speeds, but they have equal width front and rear tires.

Mahjik
22-05-2015, 02:32
I thought they were 2013 spec cars. Neither the P30 or 339H have 7-speeds, but they have equal width front and rear tires.

I honestly don't recall exactly, but they aren't 2011 spec and that's for sure. ;)

Alan Dallas
22-05-2015, 03:00
Yes the P30 and 338H were designed as 2014 spec LMP1 cars. The 2014 R18 eTron is coming.
I'm assuming SMS will re-balance the list of allowable models in the 'Same Class' category as other pre-KERS LMP1 cars are also in the works and slated for DLC. Maybe something I should bring up on WMD forums eh?

yusupov
22-05-2015, 03:10
indeed, & much preferred to artificial rebalancing. i actually think of the 2011 TDI as something of a historic car even if its been made a bit boring by the LMPs of today.

Pink_650S
22-05-2015, 04:27
The Audi R18 does not have KERS available. The Marek and RWD do. Considering those were developed by the community (Am I correct?) this seems like a fairly major oversight. I've raced the R18 on Spa, Le Mans Short Circuit, and Abu Dhabi, and the R18 can between a whole 3-6 seconds off the pace of the other two.

The R18 is just so down on power without KERS, I've noticed a lot of people not using the R18. Something needs to be done about this, even if the R18 doesn't have KERS in reality, the LMP1 class is just un-balanced.

The Sauber C9 is in the same class, is that one not bothering you?

Cheesenium
22-05-2015, 07:46
The Sauber C9 is in the same class, is that one not bothering you?

C9 is not in the same class as the R18, RWD and Marek.

C9 is very much a single class car at the moment.

sVig
22-05-2015, 10:23
I'm more wondering about how the KERS works on the Marek and RWD. Is it supposed to be like that? It's nigh on impossible to get the full engine power without the KERS activating. Not a problem on normal tracks because the KERS refills under braking. On Le Mans however it's a pain. You're out of KERS way before you need to brake on the Le Mans straights meaning for most of the time you're only getting 580ish HP and you're out of KERS power long before you get near top speed.

I'd like a better way to just use full engine power and then have the KERS kick in later on. It seems to me that the cut off point on the accelerator between just engine power and engine power with KERS is much too finely balanced meaning it's nigh on impossible to get the most out of just the engine before KERS kicks in. And then runs out horribly soon on Le Mans straights.

Bealdor
22-05-2015, 10:29
I'm more wondering about how the KERS works on the Marek and RWD. Is it supposed to be like that? It's nigh on impossible to get the full engine power without the KERS activating. Not a problem on normal tracks because the KERS refills under braking. On Le Mans however it's a pain. You're out of KERS way before you need to brake on the Le Mans straights meaning for most of the time you're only getting 580ish HP and you're out of KERS power long before you get near top speed.

I'd like a better way to just use full engine power and then have the KERS kick in later on. It seems to me that the cut off point on the accelerator between just engine power and engine power with KERS is much too finely balanced meaning it's nigh on impossible to get the most out of just the engine before KERS kicks in. And then runs out horribly soon on Le Mans straights.

That's how the hybrid system works IRL.

sVig
22-05-2015, 10:33
Is there anything in the accelerator settings you can change to make the activation point of the KERS happen a bit later, give you finer control to getting most out of the engine so speak before the KERS activates?

Bealdor
22-05-2015, 10:37
Is there anything in the accelerator settings you can change to make the activation point of the KERS happen a bit later, give you finer control to getting most out of the engine so speak before the KERS activates?

Don't go over 90% throttle if you don't want the KERS to be activated.

Btw. KERS is most effective when you activate it as early as possible because you're reaching higher speeds earlier.
Believe it or not but you're faster around the track if you hit 320 kph at half of the straight and stay there than accelerating slower but hit 330 kph at the end of the straight.

sVig
22-05-2015, 11:09
90% throttle. OK, cheers. And yeah, I know it's faster to just drive full on rather than accelerate slower and use KERS later but I was just wanting to hit top speed lol. I've struggled to hit 200mph even on Le Mans in the LMP1 cars and that's with downforce whacked right down and gear ratios tweaked.

Bealdor
22-05-2015, 11:12
90% throttle. OK, cheers. And yeah, I know it's faster to just drive full on rather than accelerate slower and use KERS later but I was just wanting to hit top speed lol. I've struggled to hit 200mph even on Le Mans in the LMP1 cars and that's with downforce whacked right down and gear ratios tweaked.

Reduce ride height (and stiffen up your suspension to compensate) to raise your top speed.

TrevorAustin
22-05-2015, 11:12
90% throttle. OK, cheers. And yeah, I know it's faster to just drive full on rather than accelerate slower and use KERS later but I was just wanting to hit top speed lol. I've struggled to hit 200mph even on Le Mans in the LMP1 cars and that's with downforce whacked right down and gear ratios tweaked.

Really! I'm doing that in the LMP1 quite easily with complete standard setup, but still prefer the slower Nissan :) More fun to drive, for me.

Mahjik
22-05-2015, 12:54
C9 is not in the same class as the R18, RWD and Marek.

C9 is very much a single class car at the moment.

What he's saying is that if you pick "Same Class" and use a LMP1, the C9 will be included. The classes right now are very broad.

RDogg
22-05-2015, 13:32
Quick question.

What spec are the LMP2 cars? (Both real and community designed?). Just curious if the R18, given it's a few years older, is similar in performance.

I ask as there is a Le Mans event being held on the 12th June.

Pink_650S
22-05-2015, 16:23
C9 is not in the same class as the R18, RWD and Marek.

C9 is very much a single class car at the moment.

Well, yes. But its in the same class in the game, which is unbalanced too.

agusKBla17
22-05-2015, 16:35
Hi! I have a question, if I'm racing a resistance 3h race in my Carrer Mode and I want to stop and have a break, is there any option which I can choose in order to save the race progress, quit from that race and then come back and continue with that saved progress? Or there is just the AI auto-driving option when I stop in pits which doesn't allows me to save my race progress and then shut down my ps4?
I would really appreciate if someone answer my question,

Thanks and sorry for my bad English, I'm just an Argentinian boy :)

Ryno917
22-05-2015, 18:12
As mentioned, the R18 is 2011 spec, and the Marek and RWD P1 cars are 2013 spec (not 2014). The 2014 R18 is coming.

The community cars were placed at 2013 regs because at the time, it was unknown if the R18 would make it into the game at all, and so 2013 was settled on for the community cars (2014 regs were available in advance, but no laps had been turned and they are substantially different to the 2013 regs, so technical information was scarce. Plus, the 2014 cars were uglier).

As far as the KERS system is concerned, all LMP cars do not use KERS at the top end - KERS is used for better acceleration out of corners. That is how the systems work in real life, and that is how they work in pCARS. KERS is not about top speed (IRL they actually disable above a certain speed regardless of how much charge there is IIRC). You are using all of the engine power whether you are using KERS or not - KERS typically use electric motors for assistance, not the internal combustion engine.

Remember: pCARS aims to simulate reality. It's not about making cars faster, it's not about manipulating things to hit a higher top speed, etc. It's emulating reality. The Marek and RWD are technically fictional, but they are built to the real world regulations. This includes the KERS system, and its deployment.

apexatspeed
22-05-2015, 19:20
Quick question.

What spec are the LMP2 cars? (Both real and community designed?). Just curious if the R18, given it's a few years older, is similar in performance.

I ask as there is a Le Mans event being held on the 12th June.

A 2011 R18 will absolutely destroy a LMP2. It definitely easily out pace the ones in pcars.

Alan Dallas
22-05-2015, 19:20
Huh.. could of swore the performance specs for the community LMP1's were tuned to 2014 specs. Live and learn. Thanks for correction Ryno.

apexatspeed
22-05-2015, 19:22
As mentioned, the R18 is 2011 spec, and the Marek and RWD P1 cars are 2013 spec (not 2014). The 2014 R18 is coming.

The community cars were placed at 2013 regs because at the time, it was unknown if the R18 would make it into the game at all, and so 2013 was settled on for the community cars (2014 regs were available in advance, but no laps had been turned and they are substantially different to the 2013 regs, so technical information was scarce. Plus, the 2014 cars were uglier).

As far as the KERS system is concerned, all LMP cars do not use KERS at the top end - KERS is used for better acceleration out of corners. That is how the systems work in real life, and that is how they work in pCARS. KERS is not about top speed (IRL they actually disable above a certain speed regardless of how much charge there is IIRC). You are using all of the engine power whether you are using KERS or not - KERS typically use electric motors for assistance, not the internal combustion engine.

Remember: pCARS aims to simulate reality. It's not about making cars faster, it's not about manipulating things to hit a higher top speed, etc. It's emulating reality. The Marek and RWD are technically fictional, but they are built to the real world regulations. This includes the KERS system, and its deployment.

I think you are backwards on when the hybrid system is used. LMP1 cars that have their hybrid system on their front wheels are restricted at lower speeds. You have to go above a certain speed for it to kick in. Cars with it on their rear wheels can use it when ever they want.

eracerhead
22-05-2015, 19:24
Is there anything in the accelerator settings you can change to make the activation point of the KERS happen a bit later, give you finer control to getting most out of the engine so speak before the KERS activates?

I'd actually like to adjust the braking/recharge point, as I have to be almost locking the brakes up on the RWD P1 (CSR Elite pedals w/ load-cell) before they begin recharging the ERS system.

Alan Dallas
22-05-2015, 19:27
I think you are backwards on when the hybrid system is used. LMP1 cars that have their hybrid system on their front wheels are restricted at lower speeds. You have to go above a certain speed for it to kick in. Cars with it on their rear wheels can use it when ever they want.
Both the cars being discussed are rear wheel drive.

apexatspeed
22-05-2015, 19:31
Both the cars being discussed are rear wheel drive.

Yes and he said LMP1 cars have their hybrid systems restricted at higher speed. That is not true.

Bealdor
22-05-2015, 19:56
Yes and he said LMP1 cars have their hybrid systems restricted at higher speed. That is not true.

No he didn't. He just said they don't use it at high speeds. Simply because it's inefficient.

Btw. give that Ryno guy some likes. He's the one that created the P30 and P20 RWD prototypes!

apexatspeed
22-05-2015, 21:07
No he didn't. He just said they don't use it at high speeds. Simply because it's inefficient.

Btw. give that Ryno guy some likes. He's the one that created the P30 and P20 RWD prototypes!

They do use it at high speeds. I guess "high speeds" is purely based on what you consider high, but LMP1s are using their hybrid power for a large section of a straight. The cars in the 8MJ class can use their Hybrid power for longer on the straights. Thus they are using their hybrid energy at high speed. Also cars with FWD hybrid systems can't even use their power until after 75 mph. All I am saying is that LMP1 cars do use their hybrid power at high speeds.

fallfromgrace
03-06-2015, 22:26
It would be very interesting to hear more about the technical aspects of the RWD and Marek prototypes. Engine sizes, hybrid systems etc. I kind of hoped there would be something under the "View Info" in "My Garage", but it seems that function isn't implemented.

The garage info states that the P30 has a flat 6 engine, while the RP339H uses a V8. During the 2013 WEC season both Toyota and Audi used V8:s in their prototypes; Toyota a 3.4L and Audi a 3.7L.

The P20 LMP2 uses a flat 4 and the RP219D a straight 4. Except for the "Lotus" team, none of the "real life" LMP2:s from the 2013 or 2014 seasons used anything but 4.5L Nissan V8:s. What are the differences of the RWD, the Marek and the other LMP2s in game?

Please, tell us more about the cars!