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Jiltjes
22-05-2015, 07:09
I am worried about the decisions made on this forum by moderators and admins.

Earlier there was a thread about who's blaming who on the whole Logitech discussion, where even Ian Bell himself answered.
That thread is gone! http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?26303-Hmmm-Logitech-G27-Blame-Slightly-Mad-Studios

Then there was a thread about almost the same, about Logitech support on the PS4, gone aswell.... http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22102-Logitech-steering-wheel-support

An earlier thread about the new Logitech G29 was posted and deleted too! (sorry no link, subscribed, but it is gone).
A new Logitech G29 thread is up and running for now, but for how long?
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?27036-Logitech-G29

What happened to freedom of speech and an open forum?

Is it because one of my tweets is spot on?
https://twitter.com/Jiltjes/status/595858923028099073

If you want people to believe in your product and buy all your DLC and stuff, you have to be transparent, open, honest and believable.

So stop throwing threads away and face the reality and criticism!!

FoxMulder
22-05-2015, 07:13
SMS confirmed Illuminati.

Zenzic
22-05-2015, 07:39
I wasn't involved in any of the discussions. Were the posts in those threads constructive?

In any case, mods are meant to moderate, not censor. I agree with closing threads that have turned into a pub fight, and I agree with deleting posts that clearly contain offensive language or discuss illegal matter. Closing or deleting on-topic threads because they are uneasy for some involved would be an abuse of power and a nullification of the forum.

Jiltjes
22-05-2015, 07:43
I wasn't involved in any of the discussions. Were the posts in those threads constructive?

In any case, mods are meant to moderate, not censor. I agree with closing threads that have turned into a pub fight, and I agree with deleting posts that clearly contain offensive language or discuss illegal matter. Closing or deleting on-topic threads because they are uneasy for some involved would be an abuse of power and a nullification of the forum.

In my opnion, I read and participated in them, all these threads were constructive and on topic! Even so on topic that Ian Bell reacted on one. In doing so, he probably hurt the Non Dosclosure Agreement in what turns to be a true "wheelgate" with Logitech.

trancend
22-05-2015, 08:01
Make no mistake and switch up the channels, Im running rich when I fly of the handle, what could be, its a mirage, im scheeming on their scheem ITS SABOTOGE!!!

trancend
22-05-2015, 08:04
Google mighta snatched a cached page with its in its everpresent web crawling mechanisms.

Ill have my dig, through the archives...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6P1T3_dGTtwJ:forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php%3F26303-Hmmm-Logitech-G27-Blame-Slightly-Mad-Studios+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=ms-android-sprint-us

Jiltjes
22-05-2015, 08:06
Google mighta snatched a cached page with its in its everpresent web crawling mechanisms.

Ill have my dig, through the archives...

Genius!!

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6P1T3_dGTtwJ:forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php%3F26303-Hmmm-Logitech-G27-Blame-Slightly-Mad-Studios+&cd=1&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl

It shows the post was edited bij Umer Ahmad, moderator!

trancend
22-05-2015, 08:19
I just got done playing Wipeout HD Fury, by Psynosis, and the hoover crafts steer like absolute dreams, all of them. Its like floating on a cloud of catillac goodness.... Ahh whell, what can we do.

Back to GT6 and DC where Im loved.

KK78
22-05-2015, 09:19
I just got done playing Wipeout HD Fury, by Psynosis, and the hoover crafts steer like absolute dreams, all of them. Its like floating on a cloud of catillac goodness.... Ahh whell, what can we do.

Back to GT6 and DC where Im loved.

Whats your gamertag mate, I play a LOT of DC!

rbl
22-05-2015, 09:28
Genius!!

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6P1T3_dGTtwJ:forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php%3F26303-Hmmm-Logitech-G27-Blame-Slightly-Mad-Studios+&cd=1&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl

It shows the post was edited bij Umer Ahmad, moderator!
That is probably for editing the thread title (those "[YES]" or "[SOLVED]" or in this case it was "[NO]" followed by "[Hmmm]") - it is done by editing the first post.

Franco Ferrari
22-05-2015, 09:37
I'm trying to remember... since I didn't followed the discussion.
IIRC, Ian Bell stated in one of his responses that SMS cannot say anything, neither officially nor unofficially, because there is a nondisclosure agreement between them and Logitech.
So, they probably cut the discussion down to avoid legal repercussions.

But mine are pure speculations, since as I said I didn't followed the discussion closely.

I'd suggest the OP author to contact the moderators directly in private and clarify the situation directly and personally.
This is hundreds of times better than open yet another flame-bait thread, speculating about conspiracies and whatnot.

Jiltjes
22-05-2015, 09:40
I'm trying to remember... since I didn't followed the discussion.
IIRC, Ian Bell stated in one of his responses that SMS cannot say anything, neither officially nor unofficially, because there is a nondisclosure agreement between them and Logitech.
So, they probably cut the discussion down to avoid legal repercussions.

But mine are pure speculations, since as I said I didn't followed the discussion closely.

I'd suggest the OP author to contact the moderators directly in private and clarify the situation directly and personally.
This is hundreds of times better than open yet another flame-bait thread, speculating about conspiracies and whatnot.

I am kind of curious what is going to happen to this thread, that is why I posted this!

FoxMulder
22-05-2015, 09:53
The internet police is coming for you, son. �� Bad boys, bad boys, whatchu gonna do ... ��

Jiltjes
22-05-2015, 10:01
The internet police is coming for you, son. �� Bad boys, bad boys, whatchu gonna do ... ��

Trust no one.... :rolleyes:

Sampo
22-05-2015, 10:14
From virtualr.net in the logitech wheel article: "Photo removed on Logitech’s request". So most likely logitech is demanding removal of items concerning said wheel. Nothing to do with SMS or moderating on this forum.

Sankyo
22-05-2015, 10:15
What happened to freedom of speech and an open forum?
'Freedom om speech' is not the same as 'post anything you want in a manner that does not respect any forum, social and/or decency rules'.

This is a public forum set up and owned by SMS to allow people to talk about and share about the game and support people having questions about or issues with the game. Everybody just posting the same complaints/rants/whinging over and over again without taking the time to inform themselves of what has already been said and discussed will render the forum useless fast, only for the subjective benefit of some people feeling they (should) have the right to post anything they want. Stuff that is not useful to anyone in any way will get removed to keep this forum working as intended.



If you want people to believe in your product and buy all your DLC and stuff, you have to be transparent, open, honest and believable.

So stop throwing threads away and face the reality and criticism!!
SMS has done more than 'face the reality and criticism', they actually engaged the community about it and acted upon it by setting out to fix issues and keeping the community informed. That's more openness and transparency than you've ever seen before by any publisher/developer. But somehow people are not seeing this, and they are not seeing how their unconstructive bickering and whinging is actually working against the desired openness and transparency by the devs.

SMS and the WMD community are here to help and more than willing to, but people have to understand that even though they're a customer, your own attitude influences everything about the reaction and openness you'll get back from them.

Franco Ferrari
22-05-2015, 10:19
I am kind of curious what is going to happen to this thread, that is why I posted this!



As I said... this, to me, looks nothing but flame-baiting.
The best place to discuss this is in private IMO.

FoxMulder
22-05-2015, 10:20
NO, I paid 60 doll hairs. I wish to speak with the lead of this company right now.

Jiltjes
22-05-2015, 10:37
From virtualr.net in the logitech wheel article: "Photo removed on Logitech’s request". So most likely logitech is demanding removal of items concerning said wheel. Nothing to do with SMS or moderating on this forum.

The G29 thread was not the only thing taken away as thread! So only half an answer

Jiltjes
22-05-2015, 10:44
'Freedom om speech' is not the same as 'post anything you want in a manner that does not respect any forum, social and/or decency rules'.

This is a public forum set up and owned by SMS to allow people to talk about and share about the game and support people having questions about or issues with the game. Everybody just posting the same complaints/rants/whinging over and over again without taking the time to inform themselves of what has already been said and discussed will render the forum useless fast, only for the subjective benefit of some people feeling they (should) have the right to post anything they want. Stuff that is not useful to anyone in any way will get removed to keep this forum working as intended.



SMS has done more than 'face the reality and criticism', they actually engaged the community about it and acted upon it by setting out to fix issues and keeping the community informed. That's more openness and transparency than you've ever seen before by any publisher/developer. But somehow people are not seeing this, and they are not seeing how their unconstructive bickering and whinging is actually working against the desired openness and transparency by the devs.

SMS and the WMD community are here to help and more than willing to, but people have to understand that even though they're a customer, your own attitude influences everything about the reaction and openness you'll get back from them.

True Remco, but I am not complaining about the game, I love the game.

I understand that the forum had to be kept neat and tidy, but there are other ways to do that, without deleting posts.

The heat and discussion is on NDA's, secrecy around Logitech and giving hints in the meanwhile. That means it is going to be discussed, no matter what.
Deleting that posts is what I am talking about.

Sankyo
22-05-2015, 11:07
True Remco, but I am not complaining about the game, I love the game.

I understand that the forum had to be kept neat and tidy, but there are other ways to do that, without deleting posts.

The heat and discussion is on NDA's, secrecy around Logitech and giving hints in the meanwhile. That means it is going to be discussed, no matter what.
Deleting that posts is what I am talking about.
If it's about discussing stuff that has been leaked, you should not underestimate how damaging it can be to allow discussing such things. This is a high-profile forum because owned by SMS, if they allow stuff to be shown/discussed that could be damaging to a company in the same field, for example, they may get into trouble with that company. Not saying that that happened here, but SMS cannot take chances in general with letting anything and everything be discussed, even if the source of the rumours/leak is outside their forum.

Again, 'freedom of speech' does not apply because this is SMS's place and SMS's rules apply.

KK78
22-05-2015, 11:12
NO, I paid 60 doll hairs. I wish to speak with the lead of this company right now.

His secretary says no.

Jiltjes
22-05-2015, 11:27
Again, 'freedom of speech' does not apply because this is SMS's place and SMS's rules apply.

And this is what worries me.

Bealdor
22-05-2015, 11:32
And this is what worries me.

This is how every forum works because the forum owners are legally responsible for every post that is made on their forum. For example: If someone (no matter who) makes a racistic post here, SMS can be prosecuted if they don't remove/moderate it. Those rules are there to protect everyone (members and owners).

No need to worry really.

Jiltjes
22-05-2015, 11:35
This is how every forum works because the forum owners are legally responsible for every post that is made on their forum. For example: If someone (no matter who) makes a racistic post here, SMS can be prosecuted if they don't remove/moderate it. Those rules are there to protect everyone (members and owners).

No need to worry really.

In the forum rules, deleting and editing, is nothing about mods or admins deleting posts, only editing http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/faq.php?faq=vb3_reading_posting#faq_vb3_editing_deleting

Then, for the matter of prosecution, that is BS. No company is getting sued on an open forum for what their readers and posters put on there, and not deleting it.

MysterG
22-05-2015, 11:36
I think it is fairly obvious that if we were really just silencing or censoring people then there are many other posts that would have been removed.


In the forum rules, deleting and editing, is nothing about mods or admins deleting posts, only editing http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/faq.php?faq=vb3_reading_posting#faq_vb3_editing_deleting


That FAQ is a generic Vbulletin FAQ page, the same as used on nearly all Vbulletin powered websites.

Sankyo
22-05-2015, 11:38
And this is what worries me.
Again, not being allowed to say anything you want, the way you want it and without consideration for others is not the same as censorship. With freedom comes responsibility, in this case for example responsibility to keep these forums useful to all the other people here.

Sankyo
22-05-2015, 11:39
Then, for the matter of prosecution, that is BS. No company is getting sued on an open forum for what their readers and posters put on there, and not deleting it.
You're very mistaken about that, I can guarantee you that.

Franco Ferrari
22-05-2015, 11:41
I think it is fairly obvious that if we were really just silencing or censoring people then there are many other posts that would have been removed.

This is actually a very good point IMO.

Jiltjes
22-05-2015, 11:41
Thanks for your replies.
Good and neat discussion!

I think I made my point.

Bealdor
22-05-2015, 11:45
...Then, for the matter of prosecution, that is BS. No company is getting sued on an open forum for what their readers and posters put on there, and not deleting it.

They're not directly responsible for what is posted, but they are obliged to moderate those posts and prevent those things to get posted again in future.

dwalldorf
29-05-2015, 08:32
As I said... this, to me, looks nothing but flame-baiting.
The best place to discuss this is in private IMO.

I don't think so. This is an open and official forum for something people payed money for. If threads that are uncomfortable to you get deleted without any comment or explanation, this is of interest for everybody. If you delete one thread, it's save to assume that anything you guys don't want to see or hear will just get deleted. Discussing this publicly is the only way to get rid of such assumptions.

IrideGravity
01-06-2015, 01:40
Funny story. I found this transparency thread about five pages deep while searching for the OFFICIAL bug reports list that should be stickied to page one for reference and to avoid repeat questions. I see a lot of the same questions over and over, but somehow that really important thread is buried under all this junk. I'm gonna keep searching and see if I can't bump it back to page 1.

Yeah. Found it on a search. It's actually stickied to the technical support section of the forum.