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View Full Version : Online: Winning vs. Racing



Jesse Fahrenkrog
22-05-2015, 23:51
I see a lot of people complaining about the racing in the public servers so I thought I'd share my $.02 on the situation:

Okay here's the situation. You're in a public server with 15 other people and you qualified third. You get a great start, brake hard for turn 1, and some jackwagon comes from way back and takes out you and three other cars and you know he's just sitting behind his screen laughing about it. Time to eject and move on right?

I say no. Yes, it's frustrating to take what you're doing somewhat seriously, and put effort in to become decent all for some bozo to try and take that self serving pleasure away from you. But did you get into that public server to win or to race?

I've been doing this for a while now so I understand, but some of the greatest racing battles I've ever had were for 10th place or so. Maybe some other guy had a run in with the same wrecker and he's mired back there with you. You both battle each other cleanly, oftentimes while working your way back up through the field, and chase one another right to the line. That's what I enjoy. Just racing. Don't get me wrong, I love to win too, but I'd way rather swap spots with someone cleanly for 10 laps than blow the field away and run by myself. Personally, I think this is a mentality shared by some of the best racers I've ever run with. No one really becomes a great racer, or for that matter even a clean racer without actually racing. Online racing is not the same as trying to unlock some achievement in Game "X" where you reset because you hit the wall and now you'll be stuck with the bronze award when you really want the gold one. It's about racing. Sliding in under someone that drifts out before the straight leading to the chicane at Watkins Glen or backing out before the super hard left hander at Barcelona, even though you've got the preferred line because you know there's no way you'll both get through that turn side by side. Of course it doesn't always reciprocate, but often it does. People notice wreckers, and people notice racers too. I like to race racers.

Now of course a ratings system ( which I understand is coming), and league racing will help in this regard, but I think populated public servers are a great thing too. Especially when some total noob buys the game and decides he's(or she of course) raced the ai enough to try racing some real people. Leagues can be intimidating to someone brand new to online racing and sometimes a little guidance from a veteran can make a huge difference in whether or not someone sticks with a game or not. I've been that guy. I'm sure a lot of us have.

So the next time you reach for that escape key after a lap 1 incident, just stick it out for a few laps. You never know what you might be missing.

Pink_650S
22-05-2015, 23:58
http://quotes.lifehack.org/media/quotes/quote-Ayrton-Senna-being-second-is-to-be-the-first-125073.png

JDFSSS
23-05-2015, 00:01
The public servers in this game are a joke right now, and not competitive at all. Glad to hear a ratings system may be coming. That could help the online mode a lot if it's done right.

Jesse Fahrenkrog
23-05-2015, 00:04
They're a joke why? I've had some fun races. Won a few, lost a few, but had fun in most of them.

RDogg
23-05-2015, 00:12
I'd rather race from the back, than win from the front.

Pink_650S
23-05-2015, 00:20
There's only one thing that goes over winning, and thats fairness.
If l cant win in a fair manner, l'd rather be 2nd, for sure.

HBR-Roadhog
23-05-2015, 01:10
I enjoy racing more than winning as well. So far the races I have enjoyed the most on PCars are races I did not win but came close.
I almost never quit a race once I am in I am in no matter if I finish first or last I want to finish.

Of course I also like winning but not nearly so much if there is not some challenge in doing so. One of my more memorable races to date was on GT5 online racing DTMs at Nurburgring. The guy I was battling with was pretty aggressive and had no problem with bumping his way to the front. Early lap two of two I was in the lead with him in my draft and I saw him move to the inside for a very risky pass in a sweeping corner. I am thinking that this may very well take us both out so I backed off the throttle moved over a little and let him past. I then proceeded to ride inches from his rear bumper for the next few miles never making contact but at times less than 1 inch apart. Eventually the pressure got to him and he got some grass, I managed to get by clean on the inside while he regained his car then he is back in my draft and closing the gap [we were driving identical cars btw]

So we get to the long straight near the end and he uses the draft to slingshot past me as we crest over the hill. I tuck in behind and suck up close again thinking there is almost no chance of a clean win here. I backed off a little with just the final 3 turns left and then got into the throttle to try and take a run at him in the final corner. He tried to close the door on the inside and the rear of his car got loose loosing just enough speed and control that I was able to come up on the outside with two tires in the grass, He veers to the left to try and cut me off hitting me pretty hard but I saw it coming and steered right as he hit me managing to maintain control and cross the finish line side by side.

It was a great race that really got my blood pumping but the best part was that at the end we both thought we had won and it wasn't until we watched the replay that we saw my bumper cross the finish line in front of him by maybe a foot.

Now that was fun.

JDFSSS
23-05-2015, 01:13
They're a joke why? I've had some fun races. Won a few, lost a few, but had fun in most of them.

Glad you are having fun, but that doesn't make the races good or competitive. It's like there's no point in even doing public races. As far as I can tell, there's little to no incentive to not crash, to finish well and to complete the race. The only thing I can see is some stats on my driver network page, and I don't think this affects anything.

Jesse Fahrenkrog
23-05-2015, 01:23
How about the self satisfaction of #1 Finishing something you started. #2 Doing the best you could given the circumstances.

What kind of incentive are you after? This is a game. There is no prize money, no contracts, no sponsor to please. Unless you're Greger Huttu, or Ray Alfalla there's very, very little recognition beyond a very small group of people you race with. Just self satisfaction and the respect of your peers.

I guess our agendas are quite different.

Jesse Fahrenkrog
23-05-2015, 01:26
Exactly! That rush is hard to beat! I don't know how many times I've wiped sweat from more forehead after a race just due to the energy, adrenaline, and focus exerted. That's what it's all about for me.

JDFSSS
23-05-2015, 01:37
How about the self satisfaction of #1 Finishing something you started. #2 Doing the best you could given the circumstances.

What kind of incentive are you after? This is a game. There is no prize money, no contracts, no sponsor to please. Unless you're Greger Huttu, or Ray Alfalla there's very, very little recognition beyond a very small group of people you race with. Just self satisfaction and the respect of your peers.

I guess our agendas are quite different.

All I want is clean, competitive races. Right now online public lobbies are neither clean nor competitive, and public lobbies are not worth playing for any sim racer. In my experience (which is pretty limited) the average online race is about 5 laps, with most drivers being involved in 1 or more incidents and only a handful of people actually finishing the race. You can have better races with the AI. If there were driver ratings based on results and safety ratings this could help if they implement it correctly.

Pink_650S
23-05-2015, 02:05
How about the self satisfaction of #1 Finishing something you started. #2 Doing the best you could given the circumstances.

What kind of incentive are you after? This is a game. There is no prize money, no contracts, no sponsor to please. Unless you're Greger Huttu, or Ray Alfalla there's very, very little recognition beyond a very small group of people you race with. Just self satisfaction and the respect of your peers.

I guess our agendas are quite different.

How about ambition?
2nd, whats bad about winning, when you have the potential to do so?
If you're okay with 10th place, thats okay, but l'm not.
Maybe its a virtual competition, yes, yet its still a competition, and l want to win everytime l can.

Jesse Fahrenkrog
23-05-2015, 02:06
I've been in several leagues over the years in many sims, and rFactor mods, and iRacing as well. In 10+ years I've been run in ONE race which had zero incidents. Ironically it was at Talladega. It was 120 laps, full 43 car field in ARCA sim racing and through pitstops and everything there was not one wreck. It was the Mecca of my sim racing experience and really still is. That said, I've run hundreds of races besides that and there were wrecks in every single one of them. I caused a few myself.

My point is that if you're expecting everyone to never touch each other, or to not wreck from contact, you'll spend a lot of time frustrated. Whether in a league, public server, or any other form of human vs human racing, someone will make a mistake. You likely won't wreck every race, but you will wreck/be wrecked. Guaranteed.

I'm not sure what your racing background is, nor will I assume. I've only ever raced online in games that fall into the "sim" category. No Gran Turismo or NFS or anything like that so I don't have the ability to compare the experiences. But if someone is used to arcade style physics which seem to be very forgiving, especially after contact, then racing something like pCars could be frustrating. And then there's the wreckers, but for now what do you do? I just race. Straighten the car out and go like hell again and get the satisfaction of making up as many spots as I can.

I like racing the ai too. But it becomes so predictable. In fact, even though I've been a WMD member since 2011, I never raced online until it was released to the public.

Anyway, hopefully I see ya in a race sometime. I promise I'll run ya clean!

Haiden
23-05-2015, 02:10
Not all cars can take a hit and remain driveable.

CustomInternals
23-05-2015, 02:12
I can see both sides of this. I can see how frustrating it is to get in a lobby with one or more people having the road rash mentality because it's personally happened to me. I also can see the fact that who cares. I mean seriously. If you are in it to only win or want close, clean, longer races then create your own private lobby and invite people. If you don't have people to invite then post on under the clean racers threads and find some.

I haven't play a ton of MP yet but I have probably 15 or so friends on my list just from the clean racers thread so if I feel the need, I can get in some MP with them. Personally I am the type that would rather have a close clean battle for the entire race than win by hotlapping 3 corners in front of everyone the entire race. Trust me I've experience all the different types of races one can have on other games and PCars as well.

I had a race where I got hit by people multiple times in the same race. Blatant disregard to racing etiquette. The funny thing is I stuck with it and by racing clean and just sticking behind the main individual for long enough, they ended up going off track for an easy pass. Once I got around them there was no catching me. I've figured out that most wreckers aren't skilled drivers. Give them their space to make their own mistakes and cash in on it. Sometimes they can keep it together the entire race but most of the time they will take themselves out. I didn't win but I ended up getting a higher position than the wreckers so that was a good to me.

I also had a race where I was fighting the car since I had never driven it before and the added AI which I find to be quite annoying sometimes. I spun out 3 times and about 1/3 the way through the race I was in second to last place. Needless to say I stuck it out and ended up getting 2nd out of 12 and only 1 corner behind the leader at the finish.

I got use to the car for the most part so on the next race, even though I had never raced the specific track in PCars yet and it was heavy fog conditions, I kept it clean and consistent which got me the #1 at the finish with about a 1/4 track lead. Needless to say after getting around the pack and settling down, it was just a matter of not taking myself out and ended up "hotlapping" the rest of the race.

I've seen it all and I will agree that wreckers take a lot of the fun out of it. Although I will also say this is not 100% the case in PCars from what I've encountered. I would say 1/3 of the races have had aggressive drivers in them but as high as that sounds, that's also saying 2/3 were clean races. If I'm in the mood for some close, clean racing, I'll take my chances.

The AI on 100 is OK but with human error comes the chance that even though you might have made a mistake, your opponents ahead of you could do the same in regards to MP. The race ain't over until the checkered flag drops.

Jesse Fahrenkrog
23-05-2015, 02:16
"If you're okay with 10th place"

Please don't imply that I'm not competitive. I'm just not going to eject because I didn't get through lap 1 without crashing. I still enjoy racing with people for the best finish I can get.



http://i.imgur.com/zttQIo1.jpg

Jesse Fahrenkrog
23-05-2015, 02:17
You can't pit? I've never been damaged so bad I couldn't continue.

Jesse Fahrenkrog
23-05-2015, 02:21
The race ain't over until the checkered flag drops.

Exactly

Morgan Henstridge
23-05-2015, 02:38
I much prefer a good, fair battle for second last, than running around by myself at the front.

If i were a paid professional driver, then yeah, I would rather be winning. But this is my hobby and I prefer a good battle with good clean racecraft any day of the week. If this good battle was for P1 & P2, thats great, but even if it is for P15 & P16, thats just as good.