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View Full Version : No matter what I do, the 1M drives like absolute ass until warm, drives well warm



ssoloK
24-05-2015, 23:41
I've been tuning the BMW 1M coupe since I got the game on release day, partly because I love the car, partly to learn tuning, and partly out of blind obsession. Seems no matter what I do, I can't tune the car so that it doesn't drive like a hot pile for the first lap of a race, arguably the most important lap. I'm not tuning it BY how it drives cold, I'm tuning it to how it drives warm, and I'm actually getting it pretty close to perfect in that regard, but the fact remains, it's almost undriveable right out of the gate, and this leads to many uncontrollable crashes. Uhh... there's nothing else I can say about it, I'm pretty frustrated by this, and I'm about speechless at this point. Can anyone help me?

Tires: Track slick

Pressure:
Front = 2.48
Rear = 2.68

Brake Pressure/Bias = 82% / F58%

Caster = +7.9

Camber:
Front = -2.5
Rear = -2

Front Toe = -.1
Rear Toe = +.1

Front Springs = 42N/mm
Rear Springs = 124N/mm

Front Sway = 45N/mm
Rear Sway = 10N/mm

Dampers/Diff/Gearing should be stock settings, I haven't really gotten to understand those settings yet so I've left them alone. All previously noted tunings are just what I'm using right now, all have been in constant state of flux and may be different by the time you even read this, and it's tuned for Road America. Also, for some reason, my Bump Stop settings sometimes change to 0mm all wheels by itself, why I don't know, but it happens. With the above settings, the car actually drives pretty much like a BMW should once the engine warms up, although one wrong move still lands you in the dirt or against the wall. There's got to be something I'm missing.

TMoney
25-05-2015, 00:00
So what's happening when you lose it? Are you understeering and pushing off track or losing the tail? I would start by lowering the tire pressures a bit especially the rear.

ssoloK
25-05-2015, 00:29
So what's happening when you lose it? Are you understeering and pushing off track or losing the tail? I would start by lowering the tire pressures a bit especially the rear.

Just about anything, I can't pinpoint it as being one problem area, it's like everything all at once. Can't steer too hard cause the tires can't take it, can't brake approaching a turn because the brakes will lock, mix of under/over in the middle of a turn, and if it goes an inch too far it's uncatchable and will spin/crash instantly losing the race. It doesn't drive like cold tires, it drives like brand new tires that haven't set yet and are still covered in machine oil, it drives like brakes that haven't set yet and are covered in machine oil, it drives like suspension that hasn't even broken in yet, let alone just being cold. It's like there's cold, then there's how the 1M in this game drives when it's cold, cold.

Out of curiosity, why would you lower tire pressures, especially the rear? I've long been a member of a BMW owners forum (I actually own the 1M irl) and many owners who actually track their car use a setup very similar to the one that I posted above, and actually use tire pressures exceeding what I've stated. Many go in excess of 40+ psi on track days, and they are experienced BMW/track guys. It is normal for a BMW to have higher psi for the rear tires because the 1M has suspension direct to chassis for the front, but suspension to rubber bushings in the rear, so the higher pressure evens it out a bit. The problem that I'm having in game is not too much under or too much over, it's the fact that when either of those occur on a cold lap, it's instant death, no return. Lifting off the throttle doesn't make the tires recatch and no amount of countersteer helps on a cold lap, and to me it feels like there is something wrong when you can't control it using proven methods.

Sorry, I'm partially just venting. Don't take it personal.

TMoney
25-05-2015, 02:39
Over 40 psi on a track day?! That sounds very high. Maybe for drifting.

Lowering the pressure allows more of the tire to contact the road which should increase grip. Try it out and see how it works, you got nothing to lose. :)

MULTIVITZ
25-05-2015, 07:50
I think I know your problems. The dampers are part or the chassis response and need tuning from default. The default cars have been set by the guys who were asked to fiddle with the setups to get the cars handling similar to the original car, but in a stable manner. For example, most default cars tyre temps will not go, or stay in the tyre temp window that car needs to be competitive! For peace of mind, I can tell you that it is possible to tune the cars to there ideal handling settings when warm and most will drive quite well when cold. Just watch your throttle and take it easy. I'm new to slick realism, I find if the car feels better when cold after an adjustment it's worth getting warm a seeing where you need to go next with it. Hope this helps.

ssoloK
25-05-2015, 14:45
I think I know your problems. The dampers are part or the chassis response and need tuning from default. The default cars have been set by the guys who were asked to fiddle with the setups to get the cars handling similar to the original car, but in a stable manner. For example, most default cars tyre temps will not go, or stay in the tyre temp window that car needs to be competitive! For peace of mind, I can tell you that it is possible to tune the cars to there ideal handling settings when warm and most will drive quite well when cold. Just watch your throttle and take it easy. I'm new to slick realism, I find if the car feels better when cold after an adjustment it's worth getting warm a seeing where you need to go next with it. Hope this helps.

Any recommendations for settings that I should start with?

ssoloK
25-05-2015, 19:20
Over 40 psi on a track day?! That sounds very high. Maybe for drifting.

Lowering the pressure allows more of the tire to contact the road which should increase grip. Try it out and see how it works, you got nothing to lose. :)

Yeah I don't really know. I have seen quite a few articles published in recent times that says that the old technique of dropping pressure to increase contact patch doesn't really work for modern tires, especially of the performance variety. According to the articles, the tread on new tires are designed specifically to get the maximum traction and performance, and all you get when dropping pressure is sidewall wear, center tread inflection, and increased sidewall flex in turns and hard accel/decel. The only place I really see people recommend to lower tire pressure is on this or similar game forums, whereas car enthusiast forums generally tend to say that increased tire pressures will offer better performance to a certain point. That's why I'm a bit confused about it. I actually have tried using lower tire pressures in game, ran about F2.20 and R1.92 and other variations in that general range before, and even though I only tried it for a short time, I felt like the performance was more inconsistent. I'll try it again though.

What's the keybind to bring up the HUD screen where you see the tire temps and everything? It used to be a button on my shifter, but I don't have it hooked up anymore. Can't tell what action it is in the keybind list.

TMoney
25-05-2015, 19:38
It's called "Cycle HUD" I believe.

thevilleky
26-05-2015, 16:05
I can't seem to get understeer out of it, without scorching the back tires. I've run a 2:26 at Brno, but the AI keeps running like 2:23. I smoke the rear tire and go into a power drift every corner.

ssoloK
26-05-2015, 16:51
I can't seem to get understeer out of it, without scorching the back tires. I've run a 2:26 at Brno, but the AI keeps running like 2:23. I smoke the rear tire and go into a power drift every corner.

That's partly just how a BMW drives, but try softening the rear sway, I have it all the way down and I like it there. You can actually feel free to try the entire setup I've posted for the 1M because once warm it's pretty sweet, just sucks on lap 1 is all. Once I get a grasp on dampers and diff settings, I think it'll be fully awesome, and way better than the stock settings.

thevilleky
27-05-2015, 00:43
Pretty solid tune. Ran a 2:26 at Brno doing the time trials. Wish leaderboards was searchable by car as i'm not sure if that's a good time. Ran a 2:24 in a race at brno but that might have been some drafting help. Car seems to push a little, then as you brake front tires bite and you get some snap oversteer at lower speed corners. I found if you keep your foot part on the brake and give it a little gas it helps, but that's really hard to do consistently through the corners.

ssoloK
27-05-2015, 03:12
Pretty solid tune. Ran a 2:26 at Brno doing the time trials. Wish leaderboards was searchable by car as i'm not sure if that's a good time. Ran a 2:24 in a race at brno but that might have been some drafting help. Car seems to push a little, then as you brake front tires bite and you get some snap oversteer at lower speed corners. I found if you keep your foot part on the brake and give it a little gas it helps, but that's really hard to do consistently through the corners.

Good feedback. For the snap oversteer on that track, I might try making the rear toe-in a bit more positive. Maybe try a setting of +.3 and see if it improves. And leaderboards by car would be a great feature. I would definitely like to see that in game.


As a side note to the devs: I'd suggest making the Toe settings a bit more accurate with more decimal places. Many drivers tend to run with toe settings between .1 and .4 and have many slight variations in between. The game only allows for steps of .1 within that range, which seems to be a very important range for competitive racing. .348 may be the absolute sweet spot for a particular build, but since the game's tuning only jumps from .3 to .4, you'll never quite reach that sweet spot.

thevilleky
27-05-2015, 15:34
I'll try that. I'm starting to think maybe it just as a car has characteristics I don't like for my driving style. I haven't tried any of the other street cars like the focus yet though so I don't know. The BMW almost seems to feel like a "typical" porsche rwd rear engine. When the front bites and the back end trys to rotate around super fast to go around in a slow bend, like 52mph - 75mph, if you straighten the wheels a little and gas it instead of letting of the gas the rear end actually comes back inline. I expected it would step out further, but if you feather the gas just right it powers through the corner and eliminates the snap oversteer at low speeds. I'm not a drifter, but this car is easy as hell to hang the back end out and drift a corner. Could never really do that in any of the forza games. Maybe a better physics model? Maybe I'm overdriving the corner and braking to hard. I don't know. Could be lack of down force on the car in general

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 08:48
Give this a go. Re: tuning grind

neovdr
31-05-2015, 09:33
@ssoLok I am seeing better results from your tune if I put 15% Acceleration lock and 40% Deceleration lock in diff settings. Check it out, maybe it works for you as well!

ssoloK
31-05-2015, 12:02
@ssoLok I am seeing better results from your tune if I put 15% Acceleration lock and 40% Deceleration lock in diff settings. Check it out, maybe it works for you as well!

Thank you! I'll try that tonight when I get home!

ssoloK
01-06-2015, 01:54
@ssoLok I am seeing better results from your tune if I put 15% Acceleration lock and 40% Deceleration lock in diff settings. Check it out, maybe it works for you as well!

Holy crap what a difference that made. It really changed the way the whole car feels in a big way. Although I guess I'm not surprised, I recently found out how much of a difference the differential makes on the real car after complaining on the 1 series forum about the car handling nervously. In game I think these modified settings may have led to a bit too much understeer for my liking. I find myself maxing out the steering pretty frequently, may have to tweak it a bit to see what happens. At least I have a solid starting place for some tweaking. Thanks again for the suggestion. Any input on dampers while you are at it :p

neovdr
01-06-2015, 08:01
Holy crap what a difference that made. It really changed the way the whole car feels in a big way. Although I guess I'm not surprised, I recently found out how much of a difference the differential makes on the real car after complaining on the 1 series forum about the car handling nervously. In game I think these modified settings may have led to a bit too much understeer for my liking. I find myself maxing out the steering pretty frequently, may have to tweak it a bit to see what happens. At least I have a solid starting place for some tweaking. Thanks again for the suggestion. Any input on dampers while you are at it :p

The dampers are rather tricky as they are very track dependent. As a rule try stiffening/softening them up in stepped increments at a time and check the handling on a track by track basis.