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Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 11:02
I'm a Wii U owner.
Today I found out that probably a Wii U VERSION of Project Cars will never come to reality. I'm pretty pissed off.
Unfortunately English is not my main language, so I cannot expose with passion how much I feel betrayed.
I remember when this VERSION (Wii U) was supposed to be the main one, due to the results of a public survey.

Do you remember? I do, and Wii U owners do too.

Most of Us GAVE YOU FINANCIAL SUPPORT EXPECTING A WII U RELEASE.

YOU STOLE OUR MONEY.

I'm going to register in every big videogames related forum of The World to find as many Wii U owners as possible and All together we will ensure that Slighty Mad Studios and Bandai Namco PAY FOR THIS.

We put Money in this. YOU ARE OBLIGED TO DEVELOP A STRONG AND WELL CRAFTED WII U VERSION.

And not Only I will spread The word, but even IF a Wii U VERSION eventually comes out, I'M NOT GOING TO BUY IT.

And that's because YOU DON'T DESERVE a single euro Or dollar out of Nintendo fans.

I hope YOU release The Wii U version but that nobody will buy it.

That's it.

SHAME ON YOU.

dustyjo
25-05-2015, 11:12
I remember when this VERSION (Wii U) was supposed to be the main one, due to the results of a public survey.

No it wasn't. It never was.

Sgnaw
25-05-2015, 11:18
No it wasn't. It never was.

I don't remember if they said something about a main version, but Wii U was the first choice in their opinion poll.

http://www.projectcarsgame.com/home/which-platform-are-you-getting-project-cars-on

Mark Bevan
25-05-2015, 11:19
It doesn't sound like a decision has been made either way. As you say you won't buy it anyway, even if it does come out, I fail to see what WMD can do for you at this point :confused:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/05/project_cars_studio_boss_admits_to_problems_with_wii_u_version_hoping_for_nintendo_hardware_announcement_at_e3

Mark Quigley
25-05-2015, 11:23
I would imagine you would be even angrier if it were released as a slide show on the wii u.
I think the best outcome has been achieved so far.

Boyd12
25-05-2015, 11:25
I don't remember if they said something about a main version, but Wii U was the first choice in their opinion poll.

http://www.projectcarsgame.com/home/which-platform-are-you-getting-project-cars-on

that must be a joke anyone can vote

Sgnaw
25-05-2015, 11:25
It doesn't sound like a decision has been made either way. As you say you won't buy it anyway, even if it does come out, I fail to see what WMD can do for you at this point :confused:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/05/project_cars_studio_boss_admits_to_problems_with_wii_u_version_hoping_for_nintendo_hardware_announcement_at_e3

And what about this one? It was just a few months ago.

http://nintendoeverything.com/slightly-mad-studios-explains-project-cars-wii-u-delay-2/

And why speculating about a new Nintendo HW? They know that it won't come out now, so why tell lies?

Sgnaw
25-05-2015, 11:27
that must be a joke anyone can vote

Anyone can vote in any public opinion poll, it's called the internet.

dustyjo
25-05-2015, 11:27
I don't remember if they said something about a main version, but Wii U was the first choice in their opinion poll.

http://www.projectcarsgame.com/home/which-platform-are-you-getting-project-cars-on

Which is a public poll and has no bearing at all whatsoever on development. The "main version" has always been PC.

Mark Bevan
25-05-2015, 11:29
And what about this one? It was just a few months ago.

http://nintendoeverything.com/slightly-mad-studios-explains-project-cars-wii-u-delay-2/

And why speculating about a new Nintendo HW? They know that it won't come out now, so why tell lies?

'This one' just says that a delay is required.

Accusing SMS of lying on this forum isn't a good idea.

mister dog
25-05-2015, 11:30
They do have Mario kart no? :)

Sgnaw
25-05-2015, 11:30
Which is a public poll and has no bearing at all whatsoever on development. The "main version" has always been PC.

I know, in fact I never talked about a "main version" because I haven't any knowledge about it. Just sayin that in this OFFICIAL public poll in their website, Wii U was the most voted platform.

Boyd12
25-05-2015, 11:31
Anyone can vote in any public opinion poll, it's called the internet.

That's why I'm saying it a joke any Tom dick or harry can vote for a laugh. Really who say's to them self I'm going to get a racing Sim for the Wii

eracerhead
25-05-2015, 11:37
It has never been officially cancelled, so any 'news' you heard about that being the case is just supposition. The game was developed from the beginning on PC, and as the coding architecture of PS4 and XB1 are so similar, it was easily ported to those consoles without drastic rewrite.

WiiU is quite different, and would have required more time to develop even if circumstances were perfect. So the decision was announced on WMD that work on WiiU would be suspended until the game was launched, when a suitable amount of dev time and funding could be directed towards it. The alternative would've been many more months of delays for everyone until that version was ready.

edit: Initial sentence overshadowed by statement from Ian: link (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?27584-Project-Cars-Sales-figures&p=940316&viewfull=1#post940316)

Sgnaw
25-05-2015, 11:40
'This one' just says that a delay is required.

Accusing SMS of lying on this forum isn't a good idea.

Iwata said that NX is out of the table at E3 --> SMS decided to wait E3 for a possible new HW

In September they said that the game was going very good and that it was just a normal postponing --> today the situation is terrible

Ok, I just want answers. I don't know how to call them if not lies, or excuses if you prefer.

Sgnaw
25-05-2015, 11:48
Yeah, I answered to that statement from Ian with some other questions. I hope to have an answer somehow.

David McKenna
25-05-2015, 11:49
Boohoo.. Doubtless that PS3 and Xbox 360 users would have paid into this too, I don't see them crying? . Given that the WII-U is last gen you will not be getting the same game as the current gen. Anyway, who said it was cancelled??

eracerhead
25-05-2015, 11:50
Ok, I just want answers. I don't know how to call them if not lies, or excuses if you prefer.

Unfortunately, the only answer seems to be that WiiU simply doesn't have the horsepower to run this game, contrary to the dev's initial hopes.

Considering the innovations that I've seen the game make in over three years, it's not surprising that up-to-date hardware is required. Keep in mind that the WiiU version was announced back when PS3 was still current, and even that version was dropped for performance reasons.

Sgnaw
25-05-2015, 11:55
Unfortunately, the only answer seems to be that WiiU simply doesn't have the horsepower to run this game, contrary to the dev's initial hopes.

Considering the innovations that I've seen the game make in over three years, it's not surprising that up-to-date hardware is required. Keep in mind that the WiiU version was announced back when PS3 was still current, and even that version was dropped for performance reasons.

I totally get it, no problem.

But, but, in September they said

So when we say the Wii U version is delayed in 2015 because we need a little more time, that's all it is. We just want to make sure it's of the same standard of all the other games. To do that, we just need a little more time. I've seen the Wii U version, I've seen it quite regularly. It's got dynamic time of day, weather - it looks phenomenal. And the actual console itself is quite good.

And today the situation is

We could reach a fairly solid 30FPS [on Wii U] but it might take a hell of a lot of work. On the other hand, about halfway through us finishing, Nintendo might announce a new console (I have zero knowledge on this BTW but I've heard 'rumours'). Our work might just be the best thing that ever hit that new console in the driving sim genre.

So we're playing a waiting game at the moment and yes, economics do come in to it.

I'm just asking what happened. It's not 3 years, it's 8 months.

PattonFiend
25-05-2015, 12:54
'This one' just says that a delay is required.

Accusing SMS of lying on this forum isn't a good idea.

Umm, excuse me, they did lie and have been for YEARS now.

This was a year ago, around the one of the many delays: "Tudor said he sees the game regularly and he's impressed with where it's at. "It's got dynamic time of day, weather--it looks phenomenal," he said. "And the actual console itself is quite good.""

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/project-cars-wii-u-delay-theres-no-conspiracy-dev-/1100-6422143/

Same article: ""It's not our job to disappoint those guys," he added. "So when we say the Wii U version is delayed in 2015 because we need a little more time, that's all it is. We just want to make sure it's of the same standard of all the other games. To do that, we just need a little more time.""

Now, on our third delay for a game announced and PROMISED YEARS AGO AND BACKED MONETARILY WITH PROMISES THROUGH KICKSTARTER, we are now being told it is NOT CURRENTLY being developed even, "...I suppose if they don't announce something at E3 or soon after we will have a go at it." So at this point, they are LITERALLY DOING NOTHING!!!

So they are now saying that they are not even working on it, and have no plans to work on it unless Nintendo announces the NX as an actual home console, which it has already been stated NOT TO BE ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS by Nintendo themselves.

"So we're playing a waiting game at the moment and yes, economics do come in to it."

Then they want to say it comes down to economics, well, another lie. It was BACKED AND PAID FOR THROUGH KICKSTARTER. They have certain obligations they have to meet to their backers and for a game which HAS ALREADY BEEN PAID FOR. THEY DESTROYED their required amount of funding BY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS for building and programing all three versions of the current generation home consoles and now they want more money to finish the game? Whoooo... My anger is off the chart right now... This is what happens to me when others throw logic out the window.

It seems to me that they have spent more time doing press releases and hyping up their game and lying to Nintendo fans in hopes of getting their funding then they have on any sort of efficient development. I will go back to the famous Andy Tudor lie (should have known by his last name that he is a degenerate, worthless, liar. England is synonymous with Tudors and LIES.) "It's got dynamic time of day, weather--it looks phenomenal," he said. "And the actual console itself is quite good.""

The thing that makes me the most upset and sick to my stomach is all of you who got your versions of the game defending the lies and mistreatment that Nintendo fans have to face on a daily basis all because we refuse to support companies who lie about their games and hardware.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 12:56
Most of you don't get the point.

People GAVE them money for a Wii U version.

That's enough. No matter WHAT, now THEY HAVE TO RELEASE IT.

Or someone At SMS is going to need a lawyer.

Sankyo
25-05-2015, 13:01
Shouting and threats are not going to do any good. Either you discuss the current situation and uncertainties in a normal fashion, or the thread gets closed.

BTW I doubt whether there is any legal ground you can stand on.

PattonFiend
25-05-2015, 13:02
Most of you don't get the point.

People GAVE them money for a Wii U version.

That's enough. No matter WHAT, now THEY HAVE TO RELEASE IT.

Or someone At SMS is going to need a lawyer.

For sure, Namco and SMS will go down for the millions in extra funding they received through Kickstarter yet are now not going to hold up their end of the bargain. It is now a lot easier to bring class-action lawsuits against failed Kickstarters and those developers who lie to get funding.

PattonFiend
25-05-2015, 13:03
Shouting and threats are not going to do any good. Either you discuss the current situation and uncertainties in a normal fashion, or the thread gets closed.

BTW I doubt whether there is any legal ground you can stand on.

So you actually think SMS and NAMCO are just allowed to take all of the extra millions in funding above what they requested and then just cancel half of the promised supported consoles? In the US there is, bud, there are ways of us taking both developer and publisher to court. Look what happened to Manny Pacqiou and he didn't even promise anything to anyone. Look how many billions Sony has lost due to class-action lawsuits in the US because of their lies and intentional misinformation. Sounds to me like you are bringing nothing relevant to the conversation, at least we are producing sources and facts.

Mad Al
25-05-2015, 13:09
Most of Us GAVE YOU FINANCIAL SUPPORT EXPECTING A WII U RELEASE.

YOU STOLE OUR MONEY.



and you put in how much personally ??

My guess is somewhere around zero..


Now, on our third delay for a game announced and PROMISED YEARS AGO AND BACKED MONETARILY WITH PROMISES THROUGH KICKSTARTER, we are now being told it is NOT CURRENTLY being developed even, "...I suppose if they don't announce something at E3 or soon after we will have a go at it." So at this point, they are LITERALLY DOING NOTHING!!!

....
Then they want to say it comes down to economics, well, another lie. It was BACKED AND PAID FOR THROUGH KICKSTARTER. They have certain obligations they have to meet to their backers and for a game which HAS ALREADY BEEN PAID FOR. THEY DESTROYED their required amount of funding BY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS for building and programing all three versions of the current generation home consoles and now they want more money to finish the game? Whoooo... My anger is off the chart right now... This is what happens to me when others throw logic out the window.

...



Would you like to actually find that on Kickstarter... I' seem to recall my money went into SMSs own WMD system.

and FFS .. if you actually knew anything about the backing..

There were never millions raised by the Wii U community (when funding opened, there was NO Wii U, period)
There has always been a refund available... so no one has ever had any money Stolen from them, nor have they already paid for a Wii U game as, as was explained to all backers, the Option was that everyone got either, a fully paid PC game, or a discount depending on how much they had put in up front (and frankly, for 10 euros, 3.5 years of access to the game is bloody cheap!) or they could get a full refund (which several who wanted a console version in fact did).


Tell you what, you find me 500 WiiU owners who backed the project... and get them to all sign up here.

Invincible
25-05-2015, 13:11
I really wondered why they even bothered doing the game for Wii U in the first place. I owned one and sold it because most games looked like ps3 at best.
The hardware in a Wii U just isn't up to the task. As Ian stated in another thread, at the moment they have 23 fps. And as far as I experienced the work of SMS until now, they aren't the ones to blame. I would really support them if they would decide to ditch the Wii U version.

Until Nintendo doesn't put something up that will be AT LEAST as fast and capable as a Ps4, I don't even think about supporting Nintendo in any way.

PattonFiend
25-05-2015, 13:12
I never said millions were raised by the Wii U community. Quit lying like your saviors. I said millions were raised above their original requested funding. You "defenders" aren't even capable of arguing correctly, Jesus...

They promised, they lied. They will have a lawsuit brought against them eventually by someone. Sorry you are having a more difficult time accepting this fact than Nintendo fans are of being screwed over again.

It really does show your character (or lack of, rather) defending liars when there are at least 2-3 dozen articles supporting our claims and the things that the developers said and promised. Quotes and promises are hard to deny. Just a half a year ago we were told there was nothing wrong with development and we would get it this year. You think after three years, they would have been able to figure that out sooner.

They may be ale to edit their Kickstarter, but they cannot edit the dozens of articles posted and easily discovered through Google.

I am done here. SMS and NAMCO know they are liars. They know have have now destroyed that bridge that was being built with Nintendo loyalists. Just waiting on Harada's exclusive Wii U game (also by Namco) to be cancelled now.

Good riddance, tools.

Invincible
25-05-2015, 13:16
The "millions" weren't raised for Wii U! As the funding started, they didn't even think about a release for the Wii U!

Sorry but you're the one incapable of arguing correctly.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 13:17
There are many agencies for Costumer protection around the World.

One of The Most important statement of The EU is to ensure and guarantee The commercial rights of customers.

There IS a way to take this to court.

I can see so many ways that I'm almost shocked for such a Move by SMS and Namco.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 13:18
I'm a Wii U owner.
Today I found out that probably a Wii U VERSION of Project Cars will never come to reality. I'm pretty pissed off.
Unfortunately English is not my main language, so I cannot expose with passion how much I feel betrayed.
I remember when this VERSION (Wii U) was supposed to be the main one, due to the results of a public survey.

Do you remember? I do, and Wii U owners do too.

Most of Us GAVE YOU FINANCIAL SUPPORT EXPECTING A WII U RELEASE.

YOU STOLE OUR MONEY.

I'm going to register in every big videogames related forum of The World to find as many Wii U owners as possible and All together we will ensure that Slighty Mad Studios and Bandai Namco PAY FOR THIS.

We put Money in this. YOU ARE OBLIGED TO DEVELOP A STRONG AND WELL CRAFTED WII U VERSION.

And not Only I will spread The word, but even IF a Wii U VERSION eventually comes out, I'M NOT GOING TO BUY IT.

And that's because YOU DON'T DESERVE a single euro Or dollar out of Nintendo fans.

I hope YOU release The Wii U version but that nobody will buy it.

That's it.

SHAME ON YOU.

Calm down, a decision hasn't been made.

But thanks for the sentiments.

Sankyo
25-05-2015, 13:19
I never said millions were raised by the Wii U community. Quit lying like your saviors. I said millions were raised above their original requested funding. You "defenders" aren't even capable of arguing correctly, Jesus...
No need for swearing, and you're wrong about the 'millions were raised above their original requested funding'. The funding goal was 3,750,000 from the very start, and when that was achieved it was closed. No idea what extra millions you're talking about.


They promised, they lied.
They started the project with intentions, which were changed when the project went along. But a final decision hasn't yet been made, see above.


They will have a lawsuit brought against them eventually by someone. Sorry you are having a more difficult time accepting this fact that Nintendo fans are of being screwed over again.
Is it 'getting screwed over' when the system turns out not being capable of running the game?


It really does show your character (or lack of, rather) defending liars when there are at least 2-3 dozen articles supporting our claims and the things that the developers said and promised.
I'd advise again to stick to discussing the facts and not get into personal attacks.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 13:22
We started the project as a Free to Play PC racing game. That's where more than 95% of the funding was raised. It later (by the choice of the backers) changed to a standard console release on last gen.

This then changed (by decision of the backers) to a standard console release on next gen systems.

We don't want to put out anything sub-par to Nintendo fans.

We're already profitable and all backers will be getting more than they put in. I think you'd struggle to sue on the basis of making a profit on your investment while SMS consider pressing ahead with WiiU or going to the next Nintendo machine.

Now stop wailing please.

Invincible
25-05-2015, 13:22
You might take this to court but you will utterly fail. You didn't buy anything. You didn't fund the game. So you want to sue a company just because they didn't do what you wanted them to do? What is even technically nearly impossible to do in a quality comparable to other consoles due to technical restrictions?
That is ridiculous.

mister dog
25-05-2015, 13:23
So you actually think SMS and NAMCO are just allowed to take all of the extra millions in funding above what they requested and then just cancel half of the promised supported consoles? In the US there is, bud, there are ways of us taking both developer and publisher to court. Look what happened to Manny Pacqiou and he didn't even promise anything to anyone. Look how many billions Sony has lost due to class-action lawsuits in the US because of their lies and intentional misinformation. Sounds to me like you are bringing nothing relevant to the conversation, at least we are producing sources and facts.
That's a bit the problem with America, people seem to make it their hobby to sue each other for peanuts (or maybe they hope they can make a quick buck).

From what i understand money was raised to make the game. Game was made no? http://www.petget.com/prhforum/images/smilies/icon_dunno.gif

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 13:23
and you put in how much personally ??

My guess is somewhere around zero..




Would you like to actually find that on Kickstarter... I' seem to recall my money went into SMSs own WMD system.

and FFS .. if you actually knew anything about the backing..

There were never millions raised by the Wii U community (when funding opened, there was NO Wii U, period)
There has always been a refund available... so no one has ever had any money Stolen from them, nor have they already paid for a Wii U game as, as was explained to all backers, the Option was that everyone got either, a fully paid PC game, or a discount depending on how much they had put in up front (and frankly, for 10 euros, 3.5 years of access to the game is bloody cheap!) or they could get a full refund (which several who wanted a console version in fact did).


Tell you what, you find me 500 WiiU owners who backed the project... and get them to all sign up here.

I hope you DO realize that how MUCH I payed or how many people payed for a Wii U version (how to know it?) is a completely pointless argument.

Like saying "Hey, he Did a handgun robbery, but was alone and stole Just 10$. No Need to treat this as a handgun robbery."

Nobody cares about how MUCH or how many.

Initially The game was supposed to release on PC and Wii U when it gained popularity.
So its logical to assume that Most of The People Who fund The game in the first place were PC and Wii U owners.

'Nuff said.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 13:25
I hope you DO realize that how MUCH I payed or how many people payed for a Wii U version (how to know it?) is a completely pointless argument.

Like saying "Hey, he Did a handgun robbery, but was alone and stole Just 10$. No Need to treat this as a handgun robbery."

Nobody cares about how MUCH or how many.

Initially The game was supposed to release on PC and Wii U when it gained popularity.
So its logical to assume that Most of The People Who fund The game in the first place were PC and Wii U owners.

'Nuff said.

This is all complete mistruths. I've posted above, you're warned for spreading lies here now Wolf.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 13:28
You might take this to court but you will utterly fail. You didn't buy anything. You didn't fund the game. So you want to sue a company just because they didn't do what you wanted them to do? What is even technically nearly impossible to do in a quality comparable to other consoles due to technical restrictions?
That is ridiculous.

ARE YOU serious? Wii U owners didn't fund The game? LOL.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 13:29
This is all complete mistruths. I've posted above, you're warned for spreading lies here now Wolf.

So The truth is that a Wii U version wasn't One of the promised platforms? Woah. I'm impressed.

PattonFiend
25-05-2015, 13:30
"There's no conspiracy here"

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/09/project_cars_wii_u_delay_was_to_ensure_its_as_good_as_other_versions_says_dev

Roger Prynne
25-05-2015, 13:31
Well in the 4 years that I have been with WMD I have never ever heard this argument about the Wii U.
Don't you think that some of the backers of the Wii U would have complained on the official forum?

Francorchamps
25-05-2015, 13:31
ARE YOU serious? Wii U owners didn't fund The game? LOL.

That's not what he said. I understand your english is not good and maybe misunderstood what he is saying. Please calm down! Everything Ian says about funding is correct.

Mark Bevan
25-05-2015, 13:32
My anger is off the chart right now...

Congratulations on controlling it so well.


England is synonymous with Tudors and LIES.)

First SMS are lying, then England is synonymous with LIES.
If I were a mod here, I would instaban me, for how I really want to respond to thish.

WMD wasn't run under Kickstarter.

You might want to either wait until there is a final statement on the WiiU version, or put your case that there should be one, in polite terms, beforehand. What you are doing at the moment is unlikely to further your cause. I'm not responding in this thread any further.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 13:33
"There's no conspiracy here"

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/09/project_cars_wii_u_delay_was_to_ensure_its_as_good_as_other_versions_says_dev

Funding was closed long long before that.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 13:33
We started the project as a Free to Play PC racing game. That's where more than 95% of the funding was raised. It later (by the choice of the backers) changed to a standard console release on last gen.

This then changed (by decision of the backers) to a standard console release on next gen systems.

We don't want to put out anything sub-par to Nintendo fans.

We're already profitable and all backers will be getting more than they put in. I think you'd struggle to sue on the basis of making a profit on your investment while SMS consider pressing ahead with WiiU or going to the next Nintendo machine.

Now stop wailing please.

Mad Al
25-05-2015, 13:33
I hope you DO realize that how MUCH I payed or how many people payed for a Wii U version (how to know it?) is a completely pointless argument.

Like saying "Hey, he Did a handgun robbery, but was alone and stole Just 10$. No Need to treat this as a handgun robbery."

Nobody cares about how MUCH or how many.

Initially The game was supposed to release on PC and Wii U when it gained popularity.
So its logical to assume that Most of The People Who fund The game in the first place were PC and Wii U owners.

'Nuff said.

Because sonny.. you are accusing SMS of stealing your money



YOU STOLE OUR MONEY.



how the F*** they can steal your money when you haven't paid any is beyond me..

if you had actually put any money in, then you would know that you could have had a refund at any point through the whole process...

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 13:41
Taking Project Cars to The next Nintendo console is STILL betraying Wii U owners, because not automatically every Wii U owner is going to buy Nintendo's next home.

By The way Nintendo already told (officialy) that NX won't be in 2015 E3, and that The up coming E3 is all about Wii U and 3DS.

So you DO KNOW that waiting The E3 is useless.

Sounds like an excuse.

Now I'm not trying to be aggressive, but Let me Just say that I used to like and respect SMS, and now I feel disappointed in a way that my English couldn't explain.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 13:44
Because sonny.. you are accusing SMS of stealing your money





how the F*** they can steal your money when you haven't paid any is beyond me..

if you had actually put any money in, then you would know that you could have had a refund at any point through the whole process...

Sonny, you're accusing me to have not funded The game. With all due respect, who are you? Do you know me? Do you know why I'm saying WHAT I'm saying and why am I acting like this? No, so please do not quote me.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 13:45
Wolf, are you calm enough to read any of my posts?

Roger Prynne
25-05-2015, 13:46
Do you know why I'm saying WHAT I'm saying and why am I acting like this?
Haven't got a clue.

Francorchamps
25-05-2015, 13:47
Oh come on Wolf. I used to be a PS3 owner should I feel betrayed it was canceled for PS3? I could have but I wasn't I moved on with my life and bought a PS4. No i'm no funder of the game but funding a game does not mean you are funding it to be on the platform of your choice. I'm not sure about this but in investing it sounds to me that an investor could sue WMD for putting to much budget in a platform that will generate loss instead of profit like the Wii U

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 13:48
We started the project as a Free to Play PC racing game. That's where more than 95% of the funding was raised. It later (by the choice of the backers) changed to a standard console release on last gen.

This then changed (by decision of the backers) to a standard console release on next gen systems.

We don't want to put out anything sub-par to Nintendo fans.

We're already profitable and all backers will be getting more than they put in. I think you'd struggle to sue on the basis of making a profit on your investment while SMS consider pressing ahead with WiiU or going to the next Nintendo machine.

Now stop wailing please.

Do you work for WMD or SMS?
All I can say is that I remember The game hardely Wanted on Wii U (public survey or how do you Call it) and that At a certain Time (with The Kickstarter STILL OPENED) The game was supposed to come to Wii U.

Even IF Just 1% of The funding came from Wii U owners The Fact is that it came under the promise of a Wii U version.

I Think you should consider this and reconsidering how you treat your potential customers.

mister dog
25-05-2015, 13:50
Do you work for WMD or SMS?
Haha :D

Arkymedes
25-05-2015, 13:50
Wolf, the freaking HEAD of the Studio is answering you directly. Calm down and read his posts!

Roger Prynne
25-05-2015, 13:50
Do you work for WMD or SMS?
Really?

Francorchamps
25-05-2015, 13:50
Do you work for WMD or SMS?


He is the big boss!!!! :cool: Read his posts. If one person can say what is going on with the Wii U version it is Ian Bell

Dookie Possum
25-05-2015, 13:50
And I want it on the Super Nintendo! SMS, make it for SNES now or I will...um...be mad.

Lawls

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 13:50
Oh come on Wolf. I used to be a PS3 owner should I feel betrayed it was canceled for PS3? I could have but I wasn't I moved on with my life and bought a PS4. No i'm no funder of the game but funding a game does not mean you are funding it to be on the platform of your choice. I'm not sure about this but in investing it sounds to me that an investor could sue WMD for putting to much budget in a platform that will generate loss instead of profit like the Wii U

Funding doesn't mean a game to be in The platform of my choice. But if somebody told me a game is COMING to Wii U and then I fund it, when The version get cancelled I have The RIGHT to be pissed off.

Roger Prynne
25-05-2015, 13:52
Did you fund it?

Dookie Possum
25-05-2015, 13:53
Did you fund it?

I don't think he did, otherwise it would have said WMD Member under his name...right?

Invincible
25-05-2015, 13:54
Funding doesn't mean a game to be in The platform of my choice. But if somebody told me a game is COMING to Wii U and then I fund it, when The version get cancelled I have The RIGHT to be pissed off.
No you don't. If it can't be made correctly due to technical restrictions, you don't have the right to be pissed at the developer. Be pissed at Nintendo if you want to.

Francorchamps
25-05-2015, 13:54
Funding doesn't mean a game to be in The platform of my choice. But if somebody told me a game is COMING to Wii U and then I fund it, when The version get cancelled I have The RIGHT to be pissed off.

You have the right to be pissed off and I understand your frustration. But like everyone is saying "calm down". You have the direct ear of the person who is in charge. He is even aswering on your posts. Try to be polite because normally he isn't that patient with people who rant on the forum. You have the right to be pissed off but you have the obligation to post in a polite way on this forum.

Roger Prynne
25-05-2015, 13:54
I don't think he did, otherwise it would have said WMD Member under his name...right?

Not necessarily as he could of been banned.... ;)

Anyway I'm outa here.

Max Kelly
25-05-2015, 13:56
I want it for my game gear, now! :hopelessness:
204407

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 13:58
Wolf, are you calm enough to read any of my posts?

Too many People is answering me, many of them Just attacking me. Plus I'm not English, I May have overlooked SOME of your post.

Let me talk to you since you Look The Only One I can talk to.

There were a moment on Kickstarter (with The funding STILL opened) when the game was supposed to be release on Wii U?

IF it is (and I believe it is), that's enough to assume SOME of your fundings came Also because the game was supposed to be on Wii U.

I understand that The Wii U installment ISN'T that great, but Let me tell you that you and this game HAD A CHANCE to do Good numbers on Wii U.

Remember The survey? This game was Wanted on The platform. But delaying it was already a bad Move (like Watchdogs), and now there is a possibility that The game won't even see The light.

We both know that NX won't be' announced At this E3, c'mon.

Just say The TRUE reason behind this.

Mad Al
25-05-2015, 13:59
Sonny, you're accusing me to have not funded The game. With all due respect, who are you? Do you know me? Do you know why I'm saying WHAT I'm saying and why am I acting like this? No, so please do not quote me.

with all due respect, I'm someone who actually put money where my mouth is and has been with the project since Nov 2011..... and no I don't know who you are any more than you know what the real situation is.... yet that didn't stop you coming in all guns blazing, rather than just asking a civil question.

I appreciate that a large proportion of the WiiU user base has the feeling it is being somehow victimised when it comes to third party game releases.. but the butt hurt attitude towards SMS is frankly unwarranted.. and if you had had the inside information, you may realise that not everything is as black and white as it might appear in several (misguided) pieces on the internet



Oh and the Furry Fella... his word is gospel

Dookie Possum
25-05-2015, 14:00
Wolf...do you understand how "INVESTING" works? You put money in to something hoping it'll make money (return on investment). Sometimes it doesn't pan out and you lose your money. It's the nature of the investment landscape. You probably spent $100...people lose tens of thousands, even millions, but like in life, you win some and you lose some.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 14:01
Too many People is answering me, many of them Just attacking me. Plus I'm not English, I May have overlooked SOME of your post.

Let me talk to you since you Look The Only One I can talk to.

There were a moment on Kickstarter (with The funding STILL opened) when the game was supposed to be release on Wii U?

IF it is (and I believe it is), that's enough to assume SOME of your fundings came Also because the game was supposed to be on Wii U.

I understand that The Wii U installment ISN'T that great, but Let me tell you that you and this game HAD A CHANCE to do Good numbers on Wii U.

Remember The survey? This game was Wanted on The platform. But delaying it was already a bad Move (like Watchdogs), and now there is a possibility that The game won't even see The light.

We both know that NX won't be' announced At this E3, c'mon.

Just say The TRUE reason behind this.

HI Wolf.

We were never on Kickstarter. We had our own dev system where plans change over time due to user votes. Users get their money back (plus profit depending on sales) so please, no one is being robbed.

Regardless, we still haven't given up on the WiiU version, we are though looking to see if it makes more sense to move it to new Nintendo hardware, just as we did with Xbox and Playstation, to get the framerates up.

To move above 23 or so FPS we would need to cut the graphics back substantially, remove weather and dynamic time of day and use an earlier tyre model (not Seta). This is a simple hardware reality we can not avoid.

And yes, I remember the survey, that's the only reason we haven't given up yet. Having said that, I don't want a sub par version of pCARS out there.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 14:02
Wolf...do you understand how "INVESTING" works? You put money in to something hoping it'll make money (return on investment). Sometimes it doesn't pan out and you lose your money. It's the nature of the investment landscape. You probably spent $100...people lose tens of thousands, even millions, but like in life, you win some and you lose some.

The thing is, we're profitable already, as are all those who put money into WMD (as soon as we get the royalties in that is)...

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 14:08
HI Wolf.

We were never on Kickstarter. We had our own dev system where plans change over time due to user votes. Users get their money back (plus profit depending on sales) so please, no one is being robbed.

Regardless, we still haven't given up on the WiiU version, we are though looking to see if it makes more sense to move it to new Nintendo hardware, just as we did with Xbox and Playstation, to get the framerates up.

To move above 23 or so FPS we would need to cut the graphics back substantially, remove weather and dynamic time of day and use an earlier tyre model (not Seta). This is a simple hardware reality we can not avoid.

And yes, I remember the survey, that's the only reason we haven't given up yet. Having said that, I don't want a sub par version of pCARS out there.

Thanks for The replay, but I DO remember One of The developers (possibly you?) saying that The Wii U version was phenomenal and had dynamic weather and All that.
It was 3 months ago. Were you (or The guy Who said that) lying At that Time? WHAT has changed so MUCH in 3 months?
Was even ever in development this version?

Not a pic, not a video, in years. I think you have treaten Nintendo's fan as...you know.
Now you're saying that you don't want to release a sub-par version for respect of Wii U fans.

Sounds like a joke to me.

By The way I received an infraction and plus I noticed you changed The name of topic, Just to make laugh of me or Nintendo fans.

That's not "professional" for an official forum.

Congratulations. I'm out of here.

Dookie Possum
25-05-2015, 14:09
The thing is, we're profitable already, as are all those who put money into WMD (as soon as we get the royalties in that is)...

Very true, but in his case, I believe his return on investment he wanted was Project CARS ported to the WII U.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 14:10
Thanks for The replay, but I DO remember One of The developers (possibly you?) saying that The Wii U version was phenomenal and had dynamic weather and All that.
It was 3 months ago. Were you (or The guy Who said that) lying At that Time? WHAT has changed so MUCH in 3 months?
Was even ever in development this version?

Not a pic, not a video, in years. I think you have treaten Nintendo's fan as...you know.
Now you're saying that you don't want to release a sub-par version for respect of Wii U fans.

Sounds like a joke to me.

By The way I received an infraction and plus I noticed you changed The name of topic, Just to make laugh of me or Nintendo fans.

That's not "professional" for an official forum.

Congratulations. I'm out of here.

It is phenomenal for the hardware. But we can't release something below 30FPS. Finding that extra 25% of frames is looking impossible.

It was Andy Tudor BTW not me.

Sorry, you're complaining to us that you received an infraction?? OK. Best of luck then.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 14:11
Very true, but in his case, I believe his return on investment he wanted was Project CARS ported to the WII U.

He didn't invest anything.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 14:11
* I mean not "you", but SOME mod changed The name of The topic. Childish.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 14:12
* I mean not "you", but SOME mod changed The name of The topic. Childish.

Wolf. We don't throw around abuse and name calling here. I'm not sure what forums you frequent but we like to communicate normally with each other.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 14:12
He didn't invest anything.

?!?

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 14:13
?!?

WMD members are coloured gold.

dungeonseeker
25-05-2015, 14:19
Hate to break this to some of you but KS is not a legal contract nor does it impose any obligation on a project to actually deliver anything.

You basically backed them at your own risk and when you gamble you sometimes lose out.

Suck it up, chalk it up to experience and move on.

DragonSyr
25-05-2015, 14:20
* I mean not "you", but SOME mod changed The name of The topic. Childish.

perhaps you violated the rules of the forum????? did you read the rules??

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 14:22
WMD members are coloured gold.

Even if I registered myself on this forum today from a dispositive that's not mine with my old mail?
Btw I don't care if anyone believes or not if i fund the game, that's not the point.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 14:25
I'll Look forward for more news of a Nintendo release, tho I'm pretty sure it won't happen.

After The delay we already knew that was going to be cancelled.

Have you EVER worked on Wii U?

Why didn't you release pics, videos or anything?

dungeonseeker
25-05-2015, 14:26
Even if I registered myself on this forum today from a dispositive that's not mine with my old mail?
Btw I don't care if anyone believes or not if i fund the game, that's not the point.

You seem to be confused between the concept of funding and the concept of donating.

Dorny
25-05-2015, 14:27
Where did all this rubbish about "Wii U fans funded the game" it was PC gamers/racing simmers that funded the game. I find it funny people on here complaining about funding Pcars for the Wii Version but there not from WMD??? So how did they fund or contribute to Pcars? There just picking a fight they have no grounds to stand on. They always argue it was a kickstarter... which again shows there chatting rubbish and never funded the game

From my time on WMD there was only about 15 active people talking about the Wii U version and pushed for the idea, I know this because I was one of them and was chucking in ideas and stood up for that version. If Wii U people were the ones that funded Pcars then wouldnt it of been mostly Wii U people talking about that platform and coming up with tonnes of ideas? No it was PC gamers

And that Poll they keep bringing up about it was the most wanted platform is complete rubbish. That poll was up for abuse as it can easily be manipulated to do multiple votes and I saw on nintendo sites and forums, fans saying get voting on this poll. So its a highly distorted poll.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 14:27
Even if I registered myself on this forum today from a dispositive that's not mine with my old mail?
Btw I don't care if anyone believes or not if i fund the game, that's not the point.

We automatically carried all WMD members over here. Why would you re-register?

Roger Prynne
25-05-2015, 14:35
@ Wolf Loz Have you actually got the game on any platform yourself?

Francorchamps
25-05-2015, 14:36
I'll Look forward for more news of a Nintendo release, tho I'm pretty sure it won't happen.

After The delay we already knew that was going to be cancelled.

Have you EVER worked on Wii U?

Why didn't you release pics, videos or anything?


I'm sure they worked on a Wii U version. I saw a video, there is a topic on this forum containing a video of the Wii U version. I'm not a fan of the Wii U, I'm one of those people who laughs with the Wii U but I was impressed with that video. So when someone of SMS or WMD said it looked fabulous they were right. I didn't expect the Wii U version to look that good.

Please stop accusing SMS of lies, the only thing you can accuse them of is lack of information and even that is discussable as Ian has told more about the Wii U version these days than he wanted to tell

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 14:37
We automatically carried all WMD members over here. Why would you re-register?

Did it in late 2012, maybe 2013, don't remember.
Never been in The forum, tho. People lose account and re-register in forums, sites, mails and newsletters every day.

By The Way you still didn't answer my question.

Why you Did never release a Wii U video or pic? After All this I'm even doubting it was under development.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 14:38
@ Wolf Loz Have you actually got the game on any platform yourself?

Nope, got a really bad PC, a 360 and a Wii U for now.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 14:38
Did it in late 2012, maybe 2013, don't remember.
Never been in The forum, tho. People lose account and re-register in forums, sites, mails and newsletters every day.

By The Way you still didn't answer my question.

Why you Did never release a Wii U video or pic? After All this I'm even doubting it was under development.

Because we made it up all along...

Wolf, please cut the antagonistic attitude. I'm trying to engage you here.

Have you seen any video from a developer in the last 10 years released to the public running at 23FPS?

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 14:39
I'm sure they worked on a Wii U version. I saw a video, there is a topic on this forum containing a video of the Wii U version. I'm not a fan of the Wii U, I'm one of those people who laughs with the Wii U but I was impressed with that video. So when someone of SMS or WMD said it looked fabulous they were right. I didn't expect the Wii U version to look that good.

Please stop accusing SMS of lies, the only thing you can accuse them of is lack of information and even that is discussable as Ian has told more about the Wii U version these days than he wanted to tell

I'm Just asking, not accusing. And that video was a PC with Wii U "settings".
Does prove how it May Look like, but not that it was under development.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 14:41
Because we made it up all along...

Wolf, please cut the antagonistic attitude. I'm trying to engage you here.

Have you seen any video from a developer in the last 10 years released to the public running at 23FPS?

I see even Games out At 23fps! LOL

I'm not Being antagonistic, maybe my poor English doesn't help.

You STILL could have released pics, tho

Francorchamps
25-05-2015, 14:41
I'm Just asking, not accusing. And that video was a PC with Wii U "settings".
Does prove how it May Look like, but not that it was under development.

I'm sorry. I thought it was a Wii U video, my mistake

Sankyo
25-05-2015, 14:45
You STILL could have released pics, tho
Why would they be obliged to do such a thing?

Besides, maybe they could not for, for example, legal or NDA reasons.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 14:50
I'm not saying they're OBLIGED to release pics.

I'm Just saying that after The promises, The Kind words for Wii U and its fans, after The delay and now this... It All seems suspicious to me.

Btw I wanna Thank Ian for The replays and the patience.

I'll Look forward for eventual Nintendo news. Bye.

Sgnaw
25-05-2015, 14:55
Hey Ian, I made two questions some pages ago and I think you missed them. I'd like to hear something from you about all this Wii U turmoil.

Mr. Tudor in September said this things to Eurogamer


So when we say the Wii U version is delayed in 2015 because we need a little more time, that's all it is. We just want to make sure it's of the same standard of all the other games. To do that, we just need a little more time. I've seen the Wii U version, I've seen it quite regularly. It's got dynamic time of day, weather - it looks phenomenal. And the actual console itself is quite good.

But today you wrote that


We could reach a fairly solid 30FPS [on Wii U] but it might take a hell of a lot of work. On the other hand, about halfway through us finishing, Nintendo might announce a new console (I have zero knowledge on this BTW but I've heard 'rumours'). Our work might just be the best thing that ever hit that new console in the driving sim genre.

So we're playing a waiting game at the moment and yes, economics do come in to it.

Can you tell me what happened in these eight months?

Also, why you mentioned to postpone the game on the next Nintendo HW when they clealrly said that NX will not on the table at E3?


Honestly, unless we really cut the looks back I think we're looking to Nintendo's next console.

We don't even know the nature of NX, so I think that your hope has just generated more confusion. A lot of websites reported your words and people (AGAIN) started the WiiU Dooming and blabla. Very bad PR for Nintendo, and they're trying to get back on track after all the Zelda-delaying problem. I think it's a kind of low blow for Wii U owners.

If you have time, I'd like to hear your answer and discuss about it. I'm not a Nintendo stakeholder, I'm just a gamer trying to figure it out the situation.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 14:56
Hey Ian, I made two questions some pages ago and I think you missed them. I'd like to hear something from you about all this Wii U turnmoil.

Mr. Tudor in September said this things to Eurogamer



But today you wrote that



Can you tell me what happened in these eight months?

Also, why you mentioned to postpone the game on the next Nintendo HW when they clealrly said that NX will not on the table at E3?



We don't even know the nature of NX, so I think that your hope has just generated more confusion. A lot of websites reported your words and people (AGAIN) started the WiiU Dooming and blabla. Very bad PR for Nintendo, and they're trying to back on track after all the Zelda-delaying problem. I think it's a kind of low blow for Wii U owners.

If you have time, I'd like to hear your answer and discuss about it. I'm not a Nintendo stakeholder, I'm just a gamer trying to figure it out the situation.

Nothing happened. We can't reach 30FPS with those features is all.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 15:04
The game has consistent drops even on PS4 and One.

23fps (let's say 24-25 optimizing it before The release) could work if "blocked".

Am I right? (I am asking, 'cause I'm not a developer)

Sgnaw
25-05-2015, 15:06
Nothing happened. We can't reach 30FPS with those features is all.

So the interview on Eurogamer was a bit too optimistic? Because there's a big difference from "we need a little more time, that's all it is ... it looks phenomenal. And the actual console itself is quite good" to "We could reach a fairly solid 30FPS [on Wii U] but it might take a hell of a lot of work"
I don't know, but sounds to me that some big problem came out.

And what about NX? Why you mentioned it?

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 15:07
The game has consistent drops even on PS4 and One.

23fps (let's say 24-25 optimizing it before The release) could work if "blocked".

Am I right? (I am asking, 'cause I'm not a developer)

We're not allowed to release a game below 30FPS

wraithsrike
25-05-2015, 15:11
The frame rate is all over the show on the xbox one, I dread to think what it would be like on the Wii

When this game runs smoothly it's fantastic but when it stutters it's a nightmare, even for me it boarders on unplayable when the frame rate issues kick in, twice now I've had no choice but to abandon a race because of this.

Wolf Loz
25-05-2015, 15:12
We're not allowed to release a game below 30FPS

You're not allowed? Why?

Dorny
25-05-2015, 15:15
Console Platform Holder Requirements, stops developers releasing any old rubbish on their platforms.

Revvin
25-05-2015, 15:18
Does this mean the Game & Watch version is delayed now?

Kalidor69
25-05-2015, 15:21
Does this mean the Game & Watch version is delayed now?

Best post of the day :cool:

Sgnaw
25-05-2015, 16:00
So the interview on Eurogamer was a bit too optimistic? Because there's a big difference from "we need a little more time, that's all it is ... it looks phenomenal. And the actual console itself is quite good" to "We could reach a fairly solid 30FPS [on Wii U] but it might take a hell of a lot of work"
I don't know, but sounds to me that some big problem came out.

And what about NX? Why you mentioned it?

Still waiting for answers.

bkfount
25-05-2015, 16:21
it sucks for wiiu only owners that waited for this, but how many people is that really?

Splatoon releasing this friday will actually be the third retail release the wiiu has seen in 2015. The console is dead and the 360/ps3 versions of pcars got canceled with far larger install bases. I assume it'll take work and resources to release a wiiu version of pcars that will sell poorly regardless while they have bugs to fix on versions that did come out.

dustyjo
25-05-2015, 16:54
I swear to god if the Vectrex version isn't absolutely amazing I'm going to break something.

Lorenza
25-05-2015, 17:45
It is phenomenal for the hardware. But we can't release something below 30FPS. Finding that extra 25% of frames is looking impossible.

It was Andy Tudor BTW not me.

Sorry, you're complaining to us that you received an infraction?? OK. Best of luck then.

Hello, this is a racing game in a open world on WiiU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUd_vUjyMWQ

you try to make me believe that you are not able to play a closed circuit on the same machine?
You could ask Polyphony Digital to give you programming lessons, when we see what he could do with the PS3 and Gran turismo 1080 / 60FPS !!

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 17:47
Hello, this is a racing game in a open world on WiiU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUd_vUjyMWQ

you try to make me believe that you are not able to play a closed circuit on the same machine?
You could ask Polyphony Digital to give you programming lessons, when we see what he could do with the PS3 and Gran turismo 1080 / 60FPS !!

Too much silly abuse now Lorenza. Bye.

Dorny
25-05-2015, 17:48
Hello, this is a racing game in a open world on WiiU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUd_vUjyMWQ

you try to make me believe that you are not able to play a closed circuit on the same machine?
You could ask Polyphony Digital to give you programming lessons, when we see what he could do with the PS3 and Gran turisme 1080 / 60FPS !!

Oh I didnt know Need for Speed is using a state of the art tire and car body simulation running at 600hz? You do know these calculations are expensive and take up CPU resources.

Your getting petty now and looking like a troll just arguing for the sake of it. Now stop it.

#Ninja'd

dustyjo
25-05-2015, 17:50
That game was also on Xbox 360 and PS3, and PCARS is not.

GT6 does not have an incredibly complex tire physics system, does not have a detailed time of day and weather system, and does not have 30+ cars on track. I don't see your point at all.

Robbo-92
25-05-2015, 17:54
I had made an attempt at a post earlier but due to lack of stable 3G it never actually posted so I'll try again albeit a shortened version.

Wolf, while I admire your passion to see this on Wii U stop making false allegations about the game, it doesn't help and only serves to create unneeded tension between Wii U owners and the rest of the community. I'm as passionate about seeing Project CARS potentially release on Wii U as well but you don't see me posting unconfirmed information as fact. Post politely and expect polite responses :)

But now to Project CARS on Wii U, I would once more like to thank Ian for being so honest about the Wii U version and what stage the game is at. As I have said before I would be disappointed if the Wii U version failed to materialize but it wouldn't be the end of the world and I could understand why you would take that standpoint due to the weaker/different architecture of the Wii U.

Can I please ask if an official stocked thread could be made regarding the state of the Wii U version? This would be a thread to discuss the Wii U version and would stop threads getting off topic (as seen in the sales thread), this would also help the Wii U community by being able to have a thread where we can voice our opinion to the developers, such as Ian and get answers to questions and the state of the Wii U version.

Lorenza2
25-05-2015, 18:02
Too much silly abuse now Lorenza. Bye.


No problem, but I will remember this next time I see you begging on Kickstarter. I'll keep my money since you are unable to keep your commitments.
Enjoy!

dustyjo
25-05-2015, 18:03
What's with all the people thinking there was a Kickstarter? And that the game was WiiU exclusive?

Mad Al
25-05-2015, 18:05
What's with all the people thinking there was a Kickstarter? And that the game was WiiU exclusive?

Well you know what the internet is like, 2+2=5

dustyjo
25-05-2015, 18:09
Well you know what the internet is like, 2+2=5

I'm serious though, there are /so many people/ that think this game was funded on Kickstarter and advertised as a WiiU exclusive. Just look at this comments section. (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/05/project_cars_studio_boss_admits_to_problems_with_wii_u_version_hoping_for_nintendo_hardware_announcement_at_e3)

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 18:10
No problem, but I will remember this next time I see you begging on Kickstarter. I'll keep my money since you are unable to keep your commitments.
Enjoy!

We've never been on Kickstarter.

This is your forth re-register and you're clearly a 'disruptive' member. Any more and your IP range will be banned.

Kalidor69
25-05-2015, 18:16
it's just a game :(

Rob Prange
25-05-2015, 18:16
I'm serious though, there are /so many people/ that think this game was funded on Kickstarter and advertised as a WiiU exclusive. Just look at this comments section. (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/05/project_cars_studio_boss_admits_to_problems_with_wii_u_version_hoping_for_nintendo_hardware_announcement_at_e3)

This one's a gem:


Need for Speed and Mario Kart 8 shows it is possible to make great looking driving games with smooth frame rate on the Wii U.

:nonchalance:

Lorenza2
25-05-2015, 18:17
We've never been on Kickstarter.

This is your forth re-register and you're clearly a 'disruptive' member. Any more and your IP range will be banned.

Kickstarter or World of Mass Developement it's the same thing, i speek abut crownfunding, and No problem i'm dynamic ip, and i know how to use a proxy, bye !

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 18:18
Kickstarter or World of Mass Developement it's the same thing, i speek abut crownfunding, and No problem i'm dynamic ip, and i know how to use a proxy, bye !

And we know how to inform an ISP.

Bye.

Rob Prange
25-05-2015, 18:18
Kickstarter or World of Mass Developement it's the same thing

No, it's not, not at all. You should really educate yourself because you continue to show that you have no idea what you are talking about.

DragonSyr
25-05-2015, 18:22
Hello, this is a racing game in a open world on WiiU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUd_vUjyMWQ

you try to make me believe that you are not able to play a closed circuit on the same machine?
You could ask Polyphony Digital to give you programming lessons, when we see what he could do with the PS3 and Gran turismo 1080 / 60FPS !!

Fake. There is not a single shred of proof this is on wii u. pc most likely, troll video!!

dustyjo
25-05-2015, 18:25
Fake. There is not a single shred of proof this is on wii u. pc most likely, troll video!!

Wut

The co-driver thing is a WiiU exclusive feature.

Mad Al
25-05-2015, 18:25
I'm serious though, there are /so many people/ that think this game was funded on Kickstarter and advertised as a WiiU exclusive. Just look at this comments section. (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/05/project_cars_studio_boss_admits_to_problems_with_wii_u_version_hoping_for_nintendo_hardware_announcement_at_e3)

No need to look anywhere, I've spent way too many hours explaining the facts of development life to the Nintendites over on IGN, just about every article on Project CARS ends up with a number of them turning up to throw their misinformed opinion about... to say they are some of the worst informed people when it comes to Project CARS would be an understatement.. they grabbed the "poll" result and ran with that meaning they somehow as a group were solely responsible for the complete financial backing of Project CARS. Every time I've asked for them to produce a 100 people who actually backed PC for the WiiU version, I'm still waiting for the list (as Dorny stated earlier, there are a few, but they are not exactly heavily represented in the WMD community.. and those who are there (and actually take any active interest) know well what the real score is).

DragonSyr
25-05-2015, 18:30
Wut

The co-driver thing is a WiiU exclusive feature.

i dont have the game and i dont know for the codriver thing , but this is unbellievable ....

Godnimon
25-05-2015, 18:30
Fake. There is not a single shred of proof this is on wii u. pc most likely, troll video!!

Is not a fake, I have the game on WiiU and it looks exactly like that.

You are quite surprised with the WiiU achieving this graphics donīt you?

And it was a 2013 game, when the WiiU was very young.

Kalidor69
25-05-2015, 18:33
I had made an attempt at a post earlier but due to lack of stable 3G it never actually posted so I'll try again albeit a shortened version.

Wolf, while I admire your passion to see this on Wii U stop making false allegations about the game, it doesn't help and only serves to create unneeded tension between Wii U owners and the rest of the community. I'm as passionate about seeing Project CARS potentially release on Wii U as well but you don't see me posting unconfirmed information as fact. Post politely and expect polite responses :)

But now to Project CARS on Wii U, I would once more like to thank Ian for being so honest about the Wii U version and what stage the game is at. As I have said before I would be disappointed if the Wii U version failed to materialize but it wouldn't be the end of the world and I could understand why you would take that standpoint due to the weaker/different architecture of the Wii U.

Can I please ask if an official stocked thread could be made regarding the state of the Wii U version? This would be a thread to discuss the Wii U version and would stop threads getting off topic (as seen in the sales thread), this would also help the Wii U community by being able to have a thread where we can voice our opinion to the developers, such as Ian and get answers to questions and the state of the Wii U version.

Keep cool, it's just a game, but Wii U users are disappointed by the message of Ian Bell, that's all. Tomorrow, is an another day.

Good post from Robbo 92

DragonSyr
25-05-2015, 18:34
Is not a fake, I have the game on WiiU and it looks exactly like that.

You are quite surprised with the WiiU achieving this graphics donīt you?

And it was a 2013 game, when the WiiU was very young.

sure i m surprised !!

Godnimon
25-05-2015, 18:44
Iīm very dissapointed with this too, I had a lot of faith on SM and now is gone, I donīt want to be offensive, but I do feel ofended to be honest. I donīt care if is going to be released on NX, because that is another console, that is not going to be released until 2017, I have to wait 2 years for a game releasing on a consola that I donīt even know if Iīm going to buy,thatīs... sad, and it makes little sense by the way, the game will flop as every old port did on WiiU.

You have to admit that SM has been overpromising with the WiiU version those last 2 years.

"What weīre going to make sure is that the Wii U version is not the worst one, it wonīt be a crappy version. We want people to get the game and say `Holy s***, that looks amazing!ī"

"The Wii U is more than capable of providing the core Project CARS experience. Sure, some super-high-level graphical effects may not be possible but in comparison it also offers a unique interaction experience via the GamePad controller, with the second screen potentially becoming your track map overview, rear-view mirror, telemetry, or simply mimicking a real race car steering wheel whilst you use the gyroscope to drive."

"Tudor said he sees the game regularly and he's impressed with where it's at. "It's got dynamic time of day, weather--it looks phenomenal," he said. "And the actual console itself is quite good."

All those are real words from SM, and there is more, all that is nothing now. Itīs a lie, it canīt be called other way sorry. WiiU owners are actually very angry with this all around the internet, and they have reasons, some of them may be overreacting, thatīs ok, but they have some good reasons.

Robbo-92
25-05-2015, 18:56
Honestly guys, making rubbish posts such as the ones seen in this thread achieves nothing! Ian has taken time to respond to some of our queries regarding the Wii U version and has been honest about whether the game will actually reach the Wii U consumers or not. For a game developer in this day and age we should be delighted that we can actively engage with the head of the studio as easily as we have been able to over the past few weeks since these forums went public.

Just out of interest Ian, you mentioned the latest tyre model was one of the issues making it unlikely you could achieve 30fps, what differences does this new tyre model have over the older one?

Also Ian, just remember that not all Nintendo fans are like the few 'fans' who have posted in this thread. They're giving us a bad name! :P

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 18:59
The new tyre model uses two full cores of both PS4 and One. The WiiU has two full cores in total.

Nelly D Racer
25-05-2015, 19:05
Is there a chance that maybe a bogus kickstarter campaign might have been setup?

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 19:07
Is there a chance that maybe a bogus kickstarter campaign might have been setup?

No, it's just people making things up.

Nelly D Racer
25-05-2015, 19:09
No, it's just people making things up.

Oh okay thanks Ian

Robbo-92
25-05-2015, 19:09
The new tyre model uses two full cores of both PS4 and One. The WiiU has two full cores in total.

Didn't realise the tyre model was so in depth!


Is there a chance that maybe a bogus kickstarter campaign might have been setup?

Honestly I really have no idea why so many people think the game was funded via Kickstarter, reading some comments made on other sites an uninformed person would think Project CARS had been 100% funded by a combination of PC and Wii U fans.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 19:13
Didn't realise the tyre model was so in depth!



Honestly I really have no idea why so many people think the game was funded via Kickstarter, reading some comments made on other sites an uninformed person would think Project CARS had been 100% funded by a combination of PC and Wii U fans.

There wasn't even a WiiU version considered right before we closed funding. But don't deter them, it's all coverage.

Godnimon
25-05-2015, 19:25
Didn't realise the tyre model was so in depth!



Honestly I really have no idea why so many people think the game was funded via Kickstarter, reading some comments made on other sites an uninformed person would think Project CARS had been 100% funded by a combination of PC and Wii U fans.

While that is true, is also true that the game was supported for the Nintendo comunity since it was revealed for WiiU years ago. And now that people should be a little bit angry.

By the way, you are not being a better fan just for not having any kind of criticism against your idols, even when is pretty obvious that they have overpromised with this, a lot. I mean, is not even an opinion, is a fact. Just read what they have been saying, and read what they say now.

Honestly I think they didnīt care about the WiiU version at all, they were focused on the 3 bigger versions, and now they are working with WiiU again.... just to realize that it would take them too long, and too expensive to do decent port on a console with low sales. they didnīt have a real interest on WiiU, if not, they would have think on the limitations of the console before. WiiU owners are not expecting "state of the art" graphics anyways, because is not a priority for them, just a good sim race with nice graphics. But nop, is not profitable enough, sorry, move on...

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 19:27
While that is true, is also true that the game was supported for the Nintendo comunity since it was revealed for WiiU years ago. And now that people should be a little bit angry.

By the way, you are not being a better fan just for not having any kind of criticism against your idols, even when is pretty obvious that they have overpromised with this, a lot. I mean, is not even an opinion, is a fact. Just read what they have been saying, and read what they say now.

Honestly I think they didnīt care about the WiiU version at all, they were focused on the 3 bigger versions, and now that they are working with WiiU again.... just to realize that it would take them too long, and too expensive to do decent port on a console with low sales. they didnīt have real interest on WiiU, if not, they would have think on the limitations of the console before. WiiU owners are not expecting "state of the art" graphics, because is not a prioritie for them, just a good sim race with nice graphics. But is not profitable enough.

A little bit angry is perfectly understandable. Ignoring the facts posted multiple times and wailing and shouting isn't.

Robbo-92
25-05-2015, 19:38
While that is true, is also true that the game was supported for the Nintendo comunity since it was revealed for WiiU years ago. And now that people should be a little bit angry.

By the way, you are not being a better fan just for not having any kind of criticism against your idols, even when is pretty obvious that they have overpromised with this, a lot. I mean, is not even an opinion, is a fact. Just read what they have been saying, and read what they say now.

Honestly I think they didnīt care about the WiiU version at all, they were focused on the 3 bigger versions, and now they are working with WiiU again.... just to realize that it would take them too long, and too expensive to do decent port on a console with low sales. they didnīt have a real interest on WiiU, if not, they would have think on the limitations of the console before. WiiU owners are not expecting "state of the art" graphics anyways, because is not a priority for them, just a good sim race with nice graphics. But nop, is not profitable enough, sorry, move on...

I think you will find I will be one of the most disappointed people out there if Project CARS doesn't release on Wii U. Ever since SMS announced it was coming to the Wii U I have been following the various builds (albeit through YouTube as I never backed the game via WMD) to see how it is progressing and what kind of experience I could see myself playing on the Wii U. Would I say I was ever angry? When there was media silence from SMS regarding the Wii U version I felt annoyed, even occasionally angry due to the lack of information. However I feel much better about the whole situation now that Ian has taken the time to address the Wii U community regarding the state of the game and said why it is proving troublesome to get running smoothly on the Wii U, I'm still disappointed though!

Sir-Taun
25-05-2015, 19:42
Nothing happened. We can't reach 30FPS with those features is all.

First off, thank you for letting people know what's happening with the Wii U version & providing further feedback on this forum. This is my first post here, but I wanted to share my perspective.

I'm a PC & Wii U owner, and I will be getting your game for PC after I get a wheel. I have pledged for a number of crowd-funded games for both PC & Wii U, & I can tell you that I'd be pretty upset at not getting a game for Wii U if I had backed for that specific platform. I don't think moving the game to Nintendo's next console is a valid option for Wii U owners, as those owners won't necessarily buy that next system, at least not immediately. And the NX won't even come out until late 2016 at the earliest, as Nintendo has stated they won't even discuss the NX again until E3 2016.

So there really isn't a point in waiting for some announcement at this year's E3. If you still need to spend more time optimizing the Xbox One version, as well as AMD specific fixes for the PC, then I understand the postponement of further work on the Wii U version. But you're in denial if you think Nintendo's announcing new hardware this year.

So assuming you will have to spend more time optimizing the Wii U version, I'd love to know how much optimization has been done so far? And don't be afraid to ask for help from Nintendo and/or AMD. Rumors about the PC version say that AMD's problems come from code written by Nvidia. If true, then wouldn't replacing that with custom code for the Wii U's AMD processors help resolve the issue? Also, Nintendo may be able to give you some insight into how to code closer to the metal.

Also, I personally see value letting Nintendo know what you are trying to accomplish on the Wii U, so they can be made consciously aware of the shortcomings of the Wii U. Traditionally they don't add power to their consoles unless they see a need for it. So even if they can't successfully help you get the game to 30 fps, Nintendo would know specifically how they fell short. And the next system would hopefully address those specific shortcomings. For example I personally don't think Nintendo fully understands what realistic physics can add to certain genres of games.

P.S. Any difference running the game off of internal memory / external storage VS reading from disc? If so then a partial install like Xenoblade Chronicles X might help. Or would that only help load times?

Godnimon
25-05-2015, 19:42
A little bit angry is perfectly understandable. Ignoring the facts posted multiple times and wailing and shouting isn't.

But Iīm not ignoring them, and Iīm not saying that Nintendo fans funded the game or something like, but they have been specially kind with this one because this is a genre that is lacking on Nintendo. And now... well, who knows, everything you said sounds like is not coming, honestly, NX is not here this year, forget about it, then when? is going to be cancelled, is writting on the walls,

And answer me, have you been overpromising with the WiiU version all this years? Because that is a fact that Iīm definitley not ignoring.

Ian Bell
25-05-2015, 19:43
But Iīm not ignoring them, and Iīm not saying that Nintendo fans funded the game or something like, but they have been specially kind with this one because this is a genre that is lacking on Nintendo. And now... well, who knows, everything you said sounds like is not coming, honestly, NX is not here this year, forget about it, then when? is going to be cancelled, is writting on the walls,

And answer me, have you been overpromising with the WiiU version all this years? Because that is a fact that Iīm definitley not ignoring.

Yes.

BBaller1337
25-05-2015, 19:51
Hi all, going to try to be brief since there's a lot of text going around but it probably won't work, sorry lol

1) Thanks for working so hard to make the game

2) Thanks for listening to fans throughout the process

3) I personally am a Wii U owner that has been keeping up with this game for a while. I could have bought it for PC, PS4, or Xbox One, but didn't, because I appreciated the efforts I assumed were going into the Wii U version. (I realize being a developer isn't easy.)

4) I didn't invest any money into the project, so I wouldn't be upset if it got cancelled or delayed to another console. (Actually, I'd be totally fine with it getting delayed to another console, it's just that said delay could take years, and I feel like SMS will have moved on by that point.)

5) However, I think it's important to realize that as the gaming industry is right now, there is a bit of a rift and tension is high in general between consumers and developers/publishers. Essentially, there is a lot of lack of trust and feeling of developers "cheating" players (DLC, buggy games, etc.) or not keeping up with promises (promising things not in the final game, announcing ports that seemed to be going well only to cancel them [mostly for Wii U though]). Therefore, I think that it would be rather inconsiderate to not do something to make it up to whoever was financially invested into the game if they did not get what they felt they were promised. For the people like me who were just waiting enthusiastically, we aren't "owed" anything, but we may feel disappointed if we don't get anything in the end anyway, so ultimately it's up to the developers to decide if they want to betray the (often self-wrought) sense of trust/hope of those people. While some might see it maturely and not hold a grudge, others might, but ultimately one might say that those people don't really matter. It's annoying to deal with, but it is what it is.

tl;dr, I just hope that everyone is treated fairly and no one is actually cheated on anything. Right now it's looking bad (things blow up way too fast on the internet, which is the only thing I'm personally frustrated about), but it's not like anything is decided. Granted, people will be watching and I think how the situation is handled will be very important. I do hope SMS realizes this and doesn't just cancel the Wii U version with a brief explanation and nothing else! Not for my sake (if the game comes out for Wii U, I'll buy it, if not, I won't; no drama here), but for others! That's all!


First off, thank you for letting people know what's happening with the Wii U version & providing further feedback on this forum. This is my first post here, but I wanted to share my perspective.

I'm a PC & Wii U owner, and I will be getting your game for PC after I get a wheel. I have pledged for a number of crowd-funded games for both PC & Wii U, & I can tell you that I'd be pretty upset at not getting a game for Wii U if I had backed for that specific platform. I don't think moving the game to Nintendo's next console is a valid option for Wii U owners, as those owners won't necessarily buy that next system, at least not immediately. And the NX won't even come out until late 2016 at the earliest, as Nintendo has stated they won't even discuss the NX again until E3 2016.

So there really isn't a point in waiting for some announcement at this year's E3. If you still need to spend more time optimizing the Xbox One version, as well as AMD specific fixes for the PC, then I understand the postponement of further work on the Wii U version. But you're in denial if you think Nintendo's announcing new hardware this year.

So assuming you will have to spend more time optimizing the Wii U version, I'd love to know how much optimization has been done so far? And don't be afraid to ask for help from Nintendo and/or AMD. Rumors about the PC version say that AMD's problems come from code written by Nvidia. If true, then wouldn't replacing that with custom code for the Wii U's AMD processors help resolve the issue? Also, Nintendo may be able to give you some insight into how to code closer to the metal.

Also, I personally see value letting Nintendo know what you are trying to accomplish on the Wii U, so they can be made consciously aware of the shortcomings of the Wii U. Traditionally they don't add power to their consoles unless they see a need for it. So even if they can't successfully help you get the game to 30 fps, Nintendo would know specifically how they fell short. And the next system would hopefully address those specific shortcomings. For example I personally don't think Nintendo fully understands what realistic physics can add to certain genres of games.

P.S. Any difference running the game off of internal memory / external storage VS reading from disc? If so then a partial install like Xenoblade Chronicles X might help. Or would that only help load times?

EDIT: just saw this, this is an excellent post. I'm amazed at your knowledge and insight. I'd like to second SMS telling Nintendo as much as they reasonably can about their problems because the bigger 3rd party developers have more power/ability to force some kind of change than smaller ones, IMO. Nintendo is being slightly better about helping 3rd-party-developers and meeting their needs, so while it's not up to the standards of other companies, I think having feedback would certainly help move that train along. If not for SMS's own sake (they may decide to never develop for a Nintendo console again, which is just their choice), I think other developers and consumers would appreciate it, so it would be a nice gesture. *shrugs*

Robbo-92
25-05-2015, 20:14
First off, thank you for letting people know what's happening with the Wii U version & providing further feedback on this forum. This is my first post here, but I wanted to share my perspective.

I'm a PC & Wii U owner, and I will be getting your game for PC after I get a wheel. I have pledged for a number of crowd-funded games for both PC & Wii U, & I can tell you that I'd be pretty upset at not getting a game for Wii U if I had backed for that specific platform. I don't think moving the game to Nintendo's next console is a valid option for Wii U owners, as those owners won't necessarily buy that next system, at least not immediately. And the NX won't even come out until late 2016 at the earliest, as Nintendo has stated they won't even discuss the NX again until E3 2016.

So there really isn't a point in waiting for some announcement at this year's E3. If you still need to spend more time optimizing the Xbox One version, as well as AMD specific fixes for the PC, then I understand the postponement of further work on the Wii U version. But you're in denial if you think Nintendo's announcing new hardware this year.

So assuming you will have to spend more time optimizing the Wii U version, I'd love to know how much optimization has been done so far? And don't be afraid to ask for help from Nintendo and/or AMD. Rumors about the PC version say that AMD's problems come from code written by Nvidia. If true, then wouldn't replacing that with custom code for the Wii U's AMD processors help resolve the issue? Also, Nintendo may be able to give you some insight into how to code closer to the metal.

Also, I personally see value letting Nintendo know what you are trying to accomplish on the Wii U, so they can be made consciously aware of the shortcomings of the Wii U. Traditionally they don't add power to their consoles unless they see a need for it. So even if they can't successfully help you get the game to 30 fps, Nintendo would know specifically how they fell short. And the next system would hopefully address those specific shortcomings. For example I personally don't think Nintendo fully understands what realistic physics can add to certain genres of games.

P.S. Any difference running the game off of internal memory / external storage VS reading from disc? If so then a partial install like Xenoblade Chronicles X might help. Or would that only help load times?

This is a good post, only issue may be people who bought a basic Wii U (and not bought an external HDD) regarding the partial install, this is working on Xenoblade due to the game loading information from the disc and the HDD thus speeding up loading times due to the size of the game and loading textures for the environment, I'm not sure if a possible workaround like this would aid actual performance of the game though.

Lars Rosenquist
25-05-2015, 20:24
Rumors about the PC version say that AMD's problems come from code written by Nvidia.These rumors are false. There is no nVidia/Gameworks code in Project CARS.

Juho Turunen
25-05-2015, 20:27
Too bad WiiU doesn't have the power...but consider that as a challenge! Ian, Old-school coders can do miracles with weak hardware so just recruit a bunch of some old-school hardcore coders and in no time the WiiU version will reach 60fps@1080p!!! Ok, i was being little sarcastic there :D

If i'd be head of the gaming studio...I would release Project Cars on SNES, as a joke, just to piss those "nintendo" fans even more. There you have it, all in 16-bit glory and state of the art MODE 7!!!

Sir-Taun
25-05-2015, 20:31
These rumors are false. There is no nVidia/Gameworks code in Project CARS.

As I have an AMD card right now, that's very nice to hear. I wasn't certain because the page that talks about the Madness Engine (http://www.slightlymadstudios.com/tech.html) mentions "Advanced physics system for world physics, characters and objects with NVIDIA PhysX support". It's not always easy to know which games are using it for fluff & which are using it for core systems.

Lars Rosenquist
25-05-2015, 20:38
There is Physx, but it runs on the CPU, not on the GPU, so it's the same on AMD/nVidia. There's a new driver from AMD underway that should alleviate the performance issues on PC. On console, there is no driver (luckily), so no driver overhead there.

Godnimon
25-05-2015, 20:40
Yes.

I appreciate the feedback

I really hope we have good news about the wiiu version in the future, a man can dream...

But meanwhile... congratulations for the success of the game, it really seems deserved.

Roger Prynne
25-05-2015, 20:55
What I don't understand is that there have been no complaints about Wii U on our WMD forum, if there were so many backers for it (which we know there wasn't) wouldn't we have heard something from them by now. I mean they would be members of WMD and have the right to ask questions or complain about it.

pichuscute
25-05-2015, 20:59
I registered with this forums to specifically express how disappointed I am in this studio and this game. Wii U has been a platform advertised with this game for a long time, and it is my (and from what I can, many fans of the game) platform of choice. Whining and complaining that you have since ignored Wii U during development (like using 2 cores for just tires, when you knew well the Wii U had just two) is not a good excuse for not bringing it to the console, honestly. You are the developer. If your game can't run on a console, please don't announce it for that console. The game looks fantastic, and is obviously doing very well. It will be a shame to see a game that deserves so much praise fall so low like this.

That being said, I will buy the game if it does end up being released on Wii U. I hope a compromise can be found, because I would love to be able to support a project like this.

Robbo-92
25-05-2015, 21:00
What I don't understand is that there have been no complaints about Wii U on our WMD forum, if there were so many backers for it (which we know there wasn't) wouldn't we have heard something from them by now. I mean they would be members of WMD and have the right to ask questions or complain about it.

As I have said previously, I actually have no idea where the idea has come from that loads of Wii U owners backed the game via WMD when in reality it will have been a very small proportion of backers (I presume there were some backers keen for the game on Wii U, even if they later pulled out).

Francorchamps
25-05-2015, 21:32
Has anyone ever checked the IP's from that poll because to me it looks like a prank in 4chan style. I remember reading about that poll on a tech news site and it was a big surprise to many that Wii U leaded that poll.

bmanic
25-05-2015, 21:34
Too bad WiiU doesn't have the power...but consider that as a challenge! Ian, Old-school coders can do miracles with weak hardware so just recruit a bunch of some old-school hardcore coders and in no time the WiiU version will reach 60fps@1080p!!! Ok, i was being little sarcastic there :D

If i'd be head of the gaming studio...I would release Project Cars on SNES, as a joke, just to piss those "nintendo" fans even more. There you have it, all in 16-bit glory and state of the art MODE 7!!!

It probably all comes down to ROI (return on investment). Is there ENOUGH Wii-U racing fans who appreciate and will purchase a SIMULATOR (this part is so incredibly difficult for some people to understand.. this is NOT a need for speed game)? If there is then I'm sure SMS can and will solve it all.

We knew the SETA tire model will not make it to the Wii-U (this was known immediately from the start). We also kind of knew the dynamic weather stuff would probably be significantly simplified or removed. Perhaps some kind of compromise where there are pre-baked weather systems for tracks with 3 or 4 variations? Who knows.. it would be a shame to release a sub-par product though. It benefits neither the fans nor SMS.

I still think the best bet is for Nintendo to catch up with the competition. They may even have something cooking in the laboratory. Who knows..

Robbo-92
25-05-2015, 21:49
It probably all comes down to ROI (return on investment). Is there ENOUGH Wii-U racing fans who appreciate and will purchase a SIMULATOR (this part is so incredibly difficult for some people to understand.. this is NOT a need for speed game)? If there is then I'm sure SMS can and will solve it all.

We knew the SETA tire model will not make it to the Wii-U (this was known immediately from the start). We also kind of knew the dynamic weather stuff would probably be significantly simplified or removed. Perhaps some kind of compromise where there are pre-baked weather systems for tracks with 3 or 4 variations? Who knows.. it would be a shame to release a sub-par product though. It benefits neither the fans nor SMS.

I still think the best bet is for Nintendo to catch up with the competition. They may even have something cooking in the laboratory. Who knows..

The latest Need for Speed Most Wanted didn't sell overly well on the Wii U either...

From what Ian has posted it sounded like it is the SETA tyre model that is causing the Wii U version to run below 30fps, he seemed to imply they would have to make downgrades such as using an older tyre model, he said this on page 2 of this thread,


To move above 23 or so FPS we would need to cut the graphics back substantially, remove weather and dynamic time of day and use an earlier tyre model (not Seta). This is a simple hardware reality we can not avoid.

I can't argue that Nintendo hasn't aided SMS in the development of Project CARS by releasing a console not as powerful as the PS4/Xbox One. I'm not a developer by any means but I imagine the biggest issue is the X86 used by PC/PS4/Xbox One compared to the PPC architecture of the Wii U making it much harder to scale to the limitations of the hardware.

dustyjo
25-05-2015, 22:14
As I have said previously, I actually have no idea where the idea has come from that loads of Wii U owners backed the game via WMD when in reality it will have been a very small proportion of backers (I presume there were some backers keen for the game on Wii U, even if they later pulled out).

I'm pretty sure Ian said that funding was completed before a Wii U version was ever even announced.

Robbo-92
25-05-2015, 22:21
I'm pretty sure Ian said that funding was completed before a Wii U version was ever even announced.

Must have missed that bit of information, cheers for the clarification :)

Ponky
25-05-2015, 23:15
Not their fault the Wii U is an underpowered pos, now shut up Nintendrone kiddie OP. You bought a Wii U in full knowledge of it being as power as last gen consoles, if you expect to run a demanding game on a system as powerful as an Xbox 360 then good luck to you.

If you don't want to buy it then don't complain and go away. They said it might not happen because the system is too slow to make it playable and you're crying over that and saying even if it ever does come out because they said that you will never buy it?

Lol. Pathetic.

eracerhead
25-05-2015, 23:33
From what Ian has posted it sounded like it is the SETA tyre model that is causing the Wii U version to run below 30fps, he seemed to imply they would have to make downgrades such as using an older tyre model...


Can't even imagine the level of backtracking that would be necessary to get the present game hooked up to the old tire model. Not to mention the bugfixing, and the fact that WMD couldn't be included in that task. Which would mean a lack of proper feedback on the whole endeavor.

TMoney
26-05-2015, 00:11
I figured this from the moment I heard Wii U announcement. I mean on PC you need a fairly powerful machine to play the game maxed out. Next gen consoles are even having troubles of their own with performance.

I know next to nothing about the Wii U, but I know enough that the same game just isn't possible on that hardware. Sad it was hyped up like this knowing the game they were building was simply just too advanced.

Sgnaw
26-05-2015, 01:53
But Iīm not ignoring them, and Iīm not saying that Nintendo fans funded the game or something like, but they have been specially kind with this one because this is a genre that is lacking on Nintendo. And now... well, who knows, everything you said sounds like is not coming, honestly, NX is not here this year, forget about it, then when? is going to be cancelled, is writting on the walls,

And answer me, have you been overpromising with the WiiU version all this years? Because that is a fact that Iīm definitley not ignoring.


Yes.

Yey, you finally did it. Why not saying that in the first place? Why mentioning NX and getting people more and more confused?

Tell me, how should we feel about it? After all these years, and your statements about Wii U, we should be very upset about it. I'm really not into SIM car games, but hey there's this team that is trying to make something cool on Wii U. I like their efforts, I like their attitude, I will definitely buy the game EVEN if I could get it on powerful machines. I want to encourage this kind of projects on Wii U, because I like the idea. Do you know how many people feel that way?

This part of the post is more general and not just related to Ian's words. I think that we have all the rights to complain about the situation, in a well-mannered way of course. I didn't like some post of Wii U fans but I also didn't like some other posts (from WMD also), made just for making fun of us and the console. What about Project Cars on SNES? Wii U owners are whiners, get away from here e don't complain, pathetic. Wow, that's very funny and mature.
We're here just for asking questions, hoping to have some real and honest answer somehow. That's all, because PC is a very important game for Wii U.

lawrenceiow
26-05-2015, 01:58
This all sounds to me like the Studio (SMS) simply wanted to get their game on each company's current console but then the game evolved beyond what the WiiU is capable of. When you've got a game that's as technically advanced as this game sounds like it is then you've every right to not want to release a sub-standard version as this will undoubtedly affect their reputation with their peers and potential publishers.

To my mind, Ian's biggest problem (with a WiiU version) is that Nintendo have gone and mentioned new hardware. They now have to decide whether to spend money on downgrading the game (from where it currently is) or keep the game at it's high standard and develop for a new Nintendo console. I think SMS would be foolish not to wait (actually, I think Nintendo owe it to a third-party developer to give them the heads up).

Certainly, as a WiiU owner, I was thoroughly impressed with the NFS:MW "arcade" game (graphics as shown in video above) and so ever since I found out that pCARS was going to be available for WiiU I have been eagerly awaiting a non-arcade driving game. I still hope, that SMS can release a WiiU racing-sim, even if it's got a different name so as not to detract from the pCARS "image". I think they deserve to get back some of the money they've spent getting the WiiU version to where it is.

If the game does not come to WiiU then I will not get to enjoy the game. Not the end of the world but a disappointment none-the-less.

A very good point was made above, WiiU owners did not get the console for it's graphical prowess. Most (if not all) simply got it because it was Nintendo's next console. Therefore, we/they, do not expect games to be as good as the PC/XB/PS versions. We all know that Nintendo have been a generation behind since the Wii's release in 2006.

All-in-all, Ian, I hope you can release some version of pCARS for WiiU because, good as it was, for what it was, NFS:MW is not a racing/driving sim and therefore there is nothing at all in this genre for us.

slow-mo-bro
26-05-2015, 02:04
Looks to me you should just stop using Nintendo. For some reason Nintendo fans have a hard life in the video game world. Just get a PS4 or an XBOX ONE. It would make life a hell of a lot easier. Oh, and SMS didn't steal your money, they just used it to make the counsel versions.

Umer Ahmad
26-05-2015, 02:04
It is the responsibility of the 1st-party console makers (Sony/Msft/Nintendo) to support the studios sothey can bring games to their platforms. If there is too much "risk" or challenge then this will be difficult for the studios to accept.

Risk1: We know about the risks of the WiiU hardware.
Risk2: Ian explained it will be significant effort to reach the 30fps mark.
Risk3: This Ninentendo NX thing is a new risk studios must consider (same we had for xb1/ps4 2 years ago)
Risk4: (my little education here) Revenu -- how many that have WiiU will really buy this game?
Risk5: peripherals support? Which wheel/pedals are supported on WiiU? Require extra work?

These are just some risks i can think of in 5 minutes, maybe also Nintendo is difficult to work with? Maybe.

So the Potential Revenue needs to overcome these risks. Ian's team knows better than ANY OF US how good/bad this WiiU idea really is. Of course SMS would like Project CARS on eveyry machine but they have to think about these kinds of questions when they make these business decisions. It is a serious business.

Sgnaw
26-05-2015, 02:22
Just for the records, for those are talking about the risk of Wii U hardware and pretending is all Nintendo/Wii U/userbase fault, I'd like to refresh your memory with some words from SMS. And I'm not taking the really old ones, just in the last two years (Wii U already in commerce).


andy tudor, 03/18/2013
We always prefer to aim for 30fps generally in order to keep gameplay-specific features like having more cars on track or better weather effects etc.

So that’s standard across all consoles, and we’re more likely to utilize the native 720p support of the Wii U for launch especially since our physics and rendering systems demand a lot of processing power in order to deliver a truly next-gen experience.

All you need to know is that when you get the game, it’ll look and feel amazing and you’ll want to show it off to your friends.


andy tudor 03/20/2013
the gamepad just screams new innovations for gameplay and is a perfect match when thinking about using the gyroscope as a handheld wheel like in mario kart wii and showing data on the screen such as a map, telemetry, speedo, or rear view mirror. When you couple that with miiverse functionality and community it’s a no-brainer.


andy tudor, 04/23/2013
regarding the wii u version, how are you going to use the gamepad? Will it have off-tv? Will it use the gyro sensor? Will you be able to use the touch screen to change the camera angles?

at: as soon as the wii u was announced we were like `oh my god, this looks amazing! We need to work on thisī. There are loads of ways to use the gamepad: As the rear-view mirror, or the parameters screen or for storing all hud elements, or using the gyro to control the car...
There are lots of opportunities with the wii u gamepad, and we want to use it as much as we can because itīs so cool! Thereīs also miiverse, which lets people post screen and post their thoughts on a game... The wii u is full of opportunities.



what features of the madness engine will be cut down for the wii u version in comparison to the pc build?

at: well, youīll need to talk to our code team about that (laughs). But i can tell you that weīre making all the versions at the same time, so itīs not like weīre making the pc version and then we port it to consoles afterwards.
But obviously, each console has its strengths and weaknesses, so the code team will have to make compromises and work out what suits each platformīs strengths better. The pc version, on the other hand, is going to be amazing! It will have the best resolution and the best graphics, obviously.
What weīre going to make sure is that the wii u version is not the worst one, it wonīt be a crappy version. We want people to get the game and say `holy s***, that looks amazing!ī


andy tudor, 09/05/2014
we obviously delayed until 2015, and there were some passionate people who got in touch with us about that. There's no conspiracy here - we announced the wii u very early on in our development cycle, and some people think because we've been working on it a lot longer so it should be out now. The xbox one version looks wicked, the pc version looks awesome, so does the ps4 version. It's not our goal to rush the wii u version and have it not look as good as the other ones.

The nintendo fans we've got are crying out for a game like this. They don't really have that experience currently, and there hasn't really been anything like it on wii previously. It's not our job to disappoint those guys. So when we say the wii u version is delayed in 2015 because we need a little more time, that's all it is. We just want to make sure it's of the same standard of all the other games. To do that, we just need a little more time. I've seen the wii u version, i've seen it quite regularly. It's got dynamic time of day, weather - it looks phenomenal. And the actual console itself is quite good.

Now you tell me, after all these years how can you discover TODAY that the machine isn't good/powerful enough? Ian admitted that they were overpromising the Wii U version. Look at the interviews and tell why should I not feel disappointed and betrayed IF the game will be cut off. And please, enough with your console war stuff, is not funny and nobody cares about it.

pichuscute
26-05-2015, 03:44
This all sounds to me like the Studio (SMS) simply wanted to get their game on each company's current console but then the game evolved beyond what the WiiU is capable of. When you've got a game that's as technically advanced as this game sounds like it is then you've every right to not want to release a sub-standard version as this will undoubtedly affect their reputation with their peers and potential publishers.

To my mind, Ian's biggest problem (with a WiiU version) is that Nintendo have gone and mentioned new hardware. They now have to decide whether to spend money on downgrading the game (from where it currently is) or keep the game at it's high standard and develop for a new Nintendo console. I think SMS would be foolish not to wait (actually, I think Nintendo owe it to a third-party developer to give them the heads up).

Certainly, as a WiiU owner, I was thoroughly impressed with the NFS:MW "arcade" game (graphics as shown in video above) and so ever since I found out that pCARS was going to be available for WiiU I have been eagerly awaiting a non-arcade driving game. I still hope, that SMS can release a WiiU racing-sim, even if it's got a different name so as not to detract from the pCARS "image". I think they deserve to get back some of the money they've spent getting the WiiU version to where it is.

If the game does not come to WiiU then I will not get to enjoy the game. Not the end of the world but a disappointment none-the-less.

A very good point was made above, WiiU owners did not get the console for it's graphical prowess. Most (if not all) simply got it because it was Nintendo's next console. Therefore, we/they, do not expect games to be as good as the PC/XB/PS versions. We all know that Nintendo have been a generation behind since the Wii's release in 2006.

All-in-all, Ian, I hope you can release some version of pCARS for WiiU because, good as it was, for what it was, NFS:MW is not a racing/driving sim and therefore there is nothing at all in this genre for us.

Totally agree here. I can deal with a little bit of a cut back version if it's gonna be fun and on Wii U. That's better than nothing, and definitely better than waiting on NX and then buying that (if that's even a console to begin with).

Umer Ahmad
26-05-2015, 04:03
Totally agree here. I can deal with a little bit of a cut back version if it's gonna be fun and on Wii U. That's better than nothing, and definitely better than waiting on NX and then buying that (if that's even a console to begin with).
Then where do "you" WiiU guys want to cut? What should be left out? Ian gave some ideas already. Definitely if you are playing with different physics than none of your times can appear in the leaderboards.

No weather?
Less AI cars?
720p?
Less human opponents in MP? (16 -> 8)
No AA?
Shift 2 physics?

Also, is a game with these cuts something that represents SMS/WMD? It will win them awards?

Is it something "worth it" for them, SMS, as a private business? Tens of thousands of WiiU players will pre-purchase this "reduced" project cars?

Matther
26-05-2015, 05:17
What I don't understand is that there have been no complaints about Wii U on our WMD forum, if there were so many backers for it (which we know there wasn't) wouldn't we have heard something from them by now. I mean they would be members of WMD and have the right to ask questions or complain about it.

I am on WMD everyone ignores my threads...

Alan Dallas
26-05-2015, 05:28
Do you work for WMD or SMS?

ROFL HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Wait, wait wait...
*gasping for breath*
ROFL HAHAHAHAHAH!!! OMG!!

EpicU
26-05-2015, 05:40
Not their fault the Wii U is an underpowered pos, now shut up Nintendrone kiddie OP. You bought a Wii U in full knowledge of it being as power as last gen consoles, if you expect to run a demanding game on a system as powerful as an Xbox 360 then good luck to you.

If you don't want to buy it then don't complain and go away. They said it might not happen because the system is too slow to make it playable and you're crying over that and saying even if it ever does come out because they said that you will never buy it?

Lol. Pathetic.

:eek: Hahaha... LOL. Have you seen Xenoblade Chronicles X for the Wii U? Even the New 3DS can run the original Xenoblade Chronicles! Yeah, ok, I get that you're narrow-minded, but please input your opinions. I am an adult, are you? Let's try to act normally instead of calling each other out. :o

Max Lazy 10
26-05-2015, 06:03
Mr. Bell, I figure that at the end of the day the reason for the Wii U version continued delayed is due to it's hardware and relatively low market share. Which begs the question that if your company is aware of the negligible returns from making the game, then why make it? With it's low market share, now angry demographic, and overall difficulty to develop for, you would be bleeding money. Instead why don't you just cancel it and port the eventual sequel to Project CARS on Nintendo's next system rumored to be releasing in 2017?

Alan Dallas
26-05-2015, 06:11
Mr. Bell, I figure that at the end of the day the reason for the Wii U version continued delayed is due to it's hardware and relatively low market share. Which begs the question that if your company is aware of the negligible returns from making the game, then why make it? With it's low market share, now angry demographic, and overall difficulty to develop for, you would be bleeding money. Instead why don't you just cancel it and port the eventual sequel to Project CARS on Nintendo's next system rumored to be releasing in 2017?
You said it yourself. Rumored. SMS is waiting for confirmation on the NX's release. As soon as they know that, they can make a better informed decision in which direction to go.

Wolf Loz
26-05-2015, 06:54
ROFL HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Wait, wait wait...
*gasping for breath*
ROFL HAHAHAHAHAH!!! OMG!!

I was sincerely asking.
After SOME posts I understood he was "The boss", and I Just Wanted to know IF he was boss of The forum or a developer.

No Need to take joke of me because I don't know Who a developer is. Is not a tragedy.

Neil Hopwood
26-05-2015, 06:56
I was sincerely asking.
After SOME posts I understood he was "The boss", and I Just Wanted to know IF he was boss of The forum or a developer.

No Need to take joke of me because I don't know Who a developer is. Is not a tragedy.

SMS staff will have a blue name like Ian's

Wolf Loz
26-05-2015, 07:03
IF a game release everywhere At The same Time and on Another platform after months or years...it won't sell.

So porting it to "NX" (that could even be the Successor of The 3DS!) is probably a even Worst Move.

And it's not a user base fault. It's fault of The delay.
Most of Wii U owners (or Nintendo fans, in general) owns more platforms.

This is Just like what happened with Watchdogs. Someone Wanted to buy The Wii U version even IF he had a PS4/One, to play it on The Gamepad (off-TV).

But then it got delayed for months, and The price of PS4/One versions dropped.

Of course nobody is gonna wait a full priced version when they can buy it for less on Other platforms.


I Think that developers that delay Games for Only One platform shouldn't complain about sales.

Just saying.

Wolf Loz
26-05-2015, 07:04
SMS staff will have a blue name like Ian's

I corrected myself.

lawrenceiow
26-05-2015, 08:29
Umer Ahmed, it almost doesn't matter what gets left out, we don't have a racing sim.

As I see it SMS can drop WiiU version now (ie spend no more money on it) and their current profit from this project won't change. But, I expect they'd like to make some money back on WiiU development so far. However, this can't happen without spending more money in order to bring it to the minimum 30fps standard.

Then they've got to wrestle with whatever perceived promises have been made with regards to what pC actually is (hence my suggestion of a name change) - if it's not got this that or the other in it can it still be called project cars? Maybe Project Cars Lite would do?

Also, there's the issue Watchdogs suffered with. If the WiiU version is released after the inevitable price drop, people will not want to pay more for the WiiU version than the going rate for the other 3 versions.

Fritsie23
26-05-2015, 09:16
Then where do "you" WiiU guys want to cut? What should be left out? Ian gave some ideas already. Definitely if you are playing with different physics than none of your times can appear in the leaderboards.

No weather?
Less AI cars?
720p?
Less human opponents in MP? (16 -> 8)
No AA?
Shift 2 physics?

Also, is a game with these cuts something that represents SMS/WMD? It will win them awards?

Is it something "worth it" for them, SMS, as a private business? Tens of thousands of WiiU players will pre-purchase this "reduced" project cars?

Thanks for asking! Just added myself as a forum member because i am really dissapointed to hear about the posibillity/fears of skipping the Wii U and I wanted to react on someone who is reaching out to the Nintendo audience for this game. I am a Wii U user and long time Nintendo user from the N64 era. I am really looking forward to play Project CARS on Wii U. Such a racing game on a Nintendo console is just great and never happend before!

To awnser wat could be left out:

No weather? : Myself can do without the wheater changing all the time but i would be sweet that the weather could be changed (Maybe without rain, which is graphical quite heavy right?)
Less AI cars? : Could also do with less AI
720p? : 720p is fine with me
Less human opponents in MP? (16 -> 8) : First thing that could be cut in my view, I really wouldnt mind less opponents in MP
No AA? : Could do less when it really influences the FPS
Shift 2 physics? : Physics would be a pitty but because it is really heavy graphical (Using 2 cores right?) i would be happy to sacrifice .

In conclusion I would be happy to sacrifice if that means it would make it to Wii U. I feel that people will still buy it because there is nothing to compare on Wii U. I still prefer a less detailed game to no game at all. People onwning a Wii U know they won't be getting the grapichal wonders deliverd on PS4 and PC. It doesn't mind that the Wii U will get a graphical downgrade. If I would care for graphics that much I would have bought a PS4.

For me Project CARS would be a first day buy on Wii U.

Neil Hopwood
26-05-2015, 09:18
Thanks for asking! Just added myself as a forum member because i am really dissapointed to hear about the posibillity/fears of skipping the Wii U and I wanted to react on someone who is reaching out to the Nintendo audience for this game. I am a Wii U user and long time Nintendo user from the N64 era. I am really looking forward to play Project CARS on Wii U. Such a racing game on a Nintendo console is just great and never happend before!

To awnser wat could be left out:

No weather? : Myself can do without the wheater changing all the time but i would be sweet that the weather could be changed (Maybe without rain, which is graphical quite heavy right?)
Less AI cars? : Could also do with less AI
720p? : 720p is fine with me
Less human opponents in MP? (16 -> 8) : First thing that could be cut in my view, I really wouldnt mind less opponents in MP
No AA? : Could do less when it really influences the FPS
Shift 2 physics? : Physics would be a pitty but because it is really heavy graphical (Using 2 cores right?) i would be happy to sacrifice .

In conclusion I would be happy to sacrifice if that means it would make it to Wii U. I feel that people will still buy it because there is nothing to compare on Wii U. I still prefer a less detailed game to no game at all. People onwning a Wii U know they won't be getting the grapichal wonders deliverd on PS4 and PC. It doesn't mind that the Wii U will get a graphical downgrade. If I would care for graphics that much I would have bought a PS4.

For me Project CARS would be a first day buy on Wii U.

My concern with making all those changes, especially the physics, is that at what point does it stop being Project CARS and just become a totally different game.

Fritsie23
26-05-2015, 09:34
My concern with making all those changes, especially the physics, is that at what point does it stop being Project CARS and just become a totally different game.

True, i also think it is on the line of 'when does it stop being Project CARS'.

What do you think needs te be cut to make a stable 30fps and still be Project CARS?
If known by you or a dev of the game: Is it just graphical or are the physics askings so much that even with the graphical changes it wouldn't run because of the heavy physics enigne?
What do you think is the line when it does stop being Project CARS?

I think we (Wii U users) could do with less graphics without losing the Project CARS feel and way of playing. I feel that Project CARS is more than just graphics. It is the way how to play the game, without grinding and working making your way to the top, entering every class you dreamed of. Making the fastes lap times in all different classes (maybe when only possible with different wheater), I feel thats what it is all about. That's why i would play a racing game or racing Sim. Could you also state your vision? Maybe it is not alligned with mine but we could make a middle way right to make a game that we can all be happy with?

At the end of the line I would still buy it with different physics engine but for me I would scrifice that lastly because the driving is still what it is all about. So maybe without changing/sacrificing the core gameplay it can still be Project CARS as intended?

EpicU
26-05-2015, 10:27
Ian, can I ask you a personal question?

Why are you being so rude when we ask you a simple and personal question yet you don't even give the straight answer. Your lack of respect is what causing the backlash. If I were you, I'd think without dry humor and start apologizing asap or somebody's gonna start causing more chaos.

I understand if you don't care, we all get that feeling, but do sit down and have a cup of tea for some sensible discussion. And instead of being rude, talk properly in a gentlemanly way that presents the company.

MysterG
26-05-2015, 10:31
I see 'people' being rude and Ian not lying down and just taking it. Why should he?
I've lost count of the number of offers of refunds he's given and has been met with silence or abuse.

He cares very much about genuine customers and complaints.

Ian Bell
26-05-2015, 10:33
Ian, can I ask you a personal question?

Why are you being so rude when we ask you a simple and personal question yet you don't even give the straight answer. Your lack of respect is what causing the backlash. If I were you, I'd think without dry humor and start apologizing asap or somebody's gonna start causing more chaos.

I understand if you don't care, we all get that feeling, but do sit down and have a cup of tea for some sensible discussion. And instead of being rude, talk properly in a gentlemanly way that presents the company.

I'll meet like with like, nothing more or less.

Start apologising or I'll start more chaos? That just sounds like a threat.