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Ripgroove
26-05-2015, 12:24
OK so there's a load of info on the forums about what each individual tuning setting does but there is obviously multiple ways to tune a car to achieve the desired setup so what steps do you take when tuning a car? ie: what car trait do you look for first and what setting do you find best to tune that trait out, why do you choose a certain method over another, do you always tune a certain aspect first then move on to another certain aspect etc etc?

Also while on the subject I have a couple of questions:

1. How do you guys tune camber if the game only shows a single tyre temp per tyre? Surely to set camber up properly requires inner, middle & outer temps?
2. Just started to tune a car (Formula Rookie) and found that there only seems to be 3 different final drive settings (3.44 / 3.09 / 2.76) even though the slider seems to move freely they are the only numbers I can get?
3. Am I missing something or is there no way of accessing the tuning menu from the pause menu? Having to quit out of the session every time I want to make an adjustment is getting very boring. At the very least we should be able to tune from the pits, no?

Thomas Sikora
26-05-2015, 12:26
Try this one:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?26349-Tuning-Chart

Umer Ahmad
26-05-2015, 12:27
1. The HUD overlay shows the O-M-I tyre temps
2. Yes, the gearing is in steps though the slider is continuous. Some of the gear choices are per race/factory specs (SLS GT3)

Ripgroove
26-05-2015, 12:34
Try this one:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?26349-Tuning-Chart

Thats not really what the question was, that s a flowchart, not really a workflow. A workflow would be the route you follow and the steps you take when tuning a car from start to finish. That chart above is more of a method flowchart on how to dial in or out over/undersreer.

Ripgroove
26-05-2015, 12:35
1. The HUD overlay shows the O-M-I tyre temps
2. Yes, the gearing is in steps though the slider is continuous. Some of the gear choices are per race/factory specs (SLS GT3)

OK cool thanks.

Mattias
26-05-2015, 13:22
Right now I just start with final drive testing on the longest straight on the track.
Next I go for brake ducts, checking if I can close it more and still keep brakes at optimal temps.
After that I just go random. I don't really have a workflow yet and would also like to see how others do it.

The two sticky threads are great.
The Project CARS tuning guide videos will come out with videos for tuning cars on different tracks eventually. (

afroguy
26-05-2015, 13:49
My work flow: Diagnose issue/ís once tires are WARM. 3-4 laps min on the same track. Then I retest for 3-4 laps after each major change.

I always start by going into free practice and going 3-4 sighting laps with the base tune to get a feel for whatís happening (understeer/ oversteer / cold tires/ too much rear brake bias etcÖ)
I start with looking at what the tires are doing and dropping the amount of fuel to 10/15% (I like my cars light and fast, who needs 50liters for a 5 lap race???).

95% of the time the tires and donít warm up fast enough or the peak temp is too cold for my liking so after 3-4 laps I box, drop them 10% and re test again. I usually repeat this process until they are starting to overheat then raise them up 10%. Only takes 2-3 loops to get it nailed. I also adjust the brake bias if needed while setting temps. I also always use the stickiest compound on road cars. e.g BAC mono is the super soft compound not summer tire. BMW 1er is Track Tire not the two summer ones. Racecars usually only have wet or dry tires so itís not an issue.

Then I move to the diff.

Again I cure almost all my handling issues with the diff not suspension geometry. Although sometimes it cannot be helped (uneven tire temps -too much camber/ bottoming out Ė raise ride height/bump stops etc)
-Turn in under steer Ė lower decel lock and maybe tweak brake bias if decel is already low
-Overseer/loose rear end (giggity) under braking Ė Raise decel lock and maybe tweak brake bias if decel is already high (50% or more on decal lock is high)
-Oversteer on exit/under throttle Ė increase accel lock (60-70% max as under steer is inevitable after 70%)
-Understeer on exit/under throttle Ė decrease accel lock (25-35% min as risk spinning inside wheel as diff is to loose)

If the following hasnít solved the issues (escort 1600 & vantage GT3 to name two) I move on to the bump and rebound. Slow bump first.

Itís at this point Iím usually swearing and start referring to something like the linked flow diagram BUT I only make one change at a time from now on to highlight if it has made any difference. If you change three things at once you donít know what affected what and your baseline is ruined. In all it usually takes 5-10 mins to dial in a decent working tune for most cars. 10-30mins for unruly cars. And 30-60 mins for cars that forgot how to car. Merc 300sel & Ford Focus ST.

This is my method. Itís the method I use IRL and it has served me well so far but everyone is different.

Happy tuning :)

NVI0U5
26-05-2015, 13:53
I tune cars for handling so I pay most of attention to the suspension, i dial in the camber from 0 to -whatever and around the desired track without downforce until the car slides then readjust more camber, until it is at the point it is travelling at a respectable speed keeping an eye whether its under or oversteering, then I work the swaybar to adjust either or, I take it out until it breaks again checking what conditions it is when over/understeering then work on damping settings, stiff soft increase over under until its right. Then lastly I look at Downforce, next is gearing I work with the gear ratio first then I decide as to whether I need to change the individual gearing, for example my lmp1 tune Ill be releasing soon has a close gear ratio but individual gearing is long for the top end, my tunes are all rounder base tunes, by the time Im finished to change tracks its generally a matter of changing the downforce.

DreamWeaver
26-05-2015, 14:24
Just out of curiosity, when real raceteams arrive at some track (F1 or GT3 etc.), I suppose they don't start on every track with the same default setup? I guess their race engineer or their software has already prepared the car with some adjustments for each specific track. And then they just finetune settings by doing testlaps with the pilot. Am I right?

They are not going through the process that NVIOU5 above described everytime they go to a new track?

Wouldn't it be possible to get a track/car specific default setup engineered by some software for pcars too?
What track information would be needed? I would assume that most (if not all) the information is already available.

Ripgroove
26-05-2015, 15:02
Good info so far lads. So are you guys constantly quitting the session in order to make every single tweak?

PTG Claret
26-05-2015, 15:16
Returning to pit box.

GRD 4 3L
26-05-2015, 16:26
Springs > ARB > Bump > Rebound > Differential > Camber/Caster > Toe > Pressure > Gears > Repeat

hkraft300
26-05-2015, 20:47
What afroguy said +1

I balance aero and gears/top speed for a track to start with. Some tracks I like more down force. Usually more.
Then the top speed is hurt so I adjust the gear ratios accordingly (individual gears too, to keep the engine more in the power band and avoid bogging down coming out of slow corners).
Then reduce it bottoming out with ride height/ spring stiffness adjustments. I prefer soft suspension.
Which is contradictory to my affliction to live the low life.
So I'll start pushing the car a little more. Prefer minimal brake bias to the front but not so little that the car spins on corner entry too much too often. Have a bit of a play with diff settings while I'm at it.
While I'm doing all that, keep a keen eye on tire temps if they are uneven I'll have a play with camber and pressures - though I reckon I should take a hint from the other guys on this thread.

So a few of those things I'm methodical. The rest I'm just going by the feel of the car. Try get the front gripping a little better without sacrificing rear grip too much. Sway bar and damping adjustments come next. bit of camber here, bit of toe in there...

Listen to the car :)

PS free practice is the best for tuning. if you don't like something, pause the game, jump back to the pits, make the changes, roll out again

Spirit X
26-05-2015, 23:47
I've had the most success with this:

-dial out all diff and TC.
-pretty much tune the pages in order. Occasionally going back and forth for tyre pressures, springs, sways and shocks etc...as you try out different combinations.
-at least 3 warm laps after each change
-when you can't squeeze any more out of it or improve anything else, start tuning diff and TC.

That last step is really satisfying too. Thinking you've peaked at 1:30s and then finding that once you've finished tweaking the diff you're running 3 seconds quicker. Real nice.

OperatorWay
27-05-2015, 02:57
I haven't yet driven every car in the game, but most of the ones I've tried so far have luckily seemed fairly easy to drive fast with their default tuning setups.

When I make changes, I usually try to address any understeer or oversteer issues by starting with the small changes to the less-dramatic stuff, like: tire pressures, brake balance, traction control slip %, steering ratio, caster, camber, toe, sway bars, and differential. Then I try to gauge the track's straights for top speed and adjust downforce & final drive accordingly. Usually that's enough to get the car feeling pretty good to me. But if all of those fail to get the car in a more suitable state, then I roll up my sleeves & start messing with the suspension/springs, dampers, and individual gears.

I probably don't put quite as much stock as others might in things like telemetry & "real life" mechanical details. What matters most to me is simply getting the car to a state where I can comfortably & consistently drive relatively competitive lap times in it. After all, I don't have to pay real money to replace parts after the virtual race is over. :)

I've also found that tweaking the control configuration in the game options/settings has as much (or more) of an impact on how the cars feel as tuning does. Getting the game's controls properly dialed in to better fit your preferences & driving style is a key factor in both performance & enjoyment.

I admittedly still have much to learn & experiment with in the Project CARS tuning system, and I look forward to continuing the journey. Plus, I still need to do some more work adjusting the nut behind the wheel before I mess with the bolts under the bonnet too much. :)

MULTIVITZ
27-05-2015, 12:46
Tuning is a black art. The post I liked is close to automated tuning tasks in correct order. This is the correct way.

You have to consider what you have. Then adjust accordingly and assess the compromises as they apear, or arise from previous experience.

For example. Look at the weight balance, type of track, how quick the tyres warm up, how stable the temps are when thrashed, are the tyres noisy, am I losing aero when the car leans over, does the car need to lean over more for extra grip, will bottoming out really bother this car, will stiffening the antiroll bar stop me crashing because i went too far with the rebound, can the tyre temps be managed better by brake balance or would the brakes start to over heat?

Its a vast subject that is great fun for some, a chor for others. Understanding each adjustable thing is a start, realising their interplay is rewarding, and alot of the time beyond some peoples need to know.
I like to leave a bit of spice in a setup so you can call on it to relieve any boredom, think of it as the opposite to an Audi lol think more like Alfa!

You have to consider what you have. If you don't know, then ask someone or do some testing and observe, remember, recall, learn, help the car calm down or liven up!

NVI0U5
27-05-2015, 12:50
Everythings unusual with the lmp1 cars, I got a top 10 time on monza short with 0 camber and 0 downforce think it may be broken

MULTIVITZ
27-05-2015, 12:55
Everythings unusual with the lmp1 cars, I got a top 10 time on monza short with 0 camber and 0 downforce think it may be broken

Maybe, maybe not. They do like a low camber!

jimmyb_84
27-05-2015, 14:59
My work flow: Diagnose issue/ís once tires are WARM. 3-4 laps min on the same track. Then I retest for 3-4 laps after each major change.

I always start by going into free practice and going 3-4 sighting laps with the base tune to get a feel for whatís happening (understeer/ oversteer / cold tires/ too much rear brake bias etcÖ)
I start with looking at what the tires are doing and dropping the amount of fuel to 10/15% (I like my cars light and fast, who needs 50liters for a 5 lap race???).

95% of the time the tires and donít warm up fast enough or the peak temp is too cold for my liking so after 3-4 laps I box, drop them 10% and re test again. I usually repeat this process until they are starting to overheat then raise them up 10%. Only takes 2-3 loops to get it nailed. I also adjust the brake bias if needed while setting temps. I also always use the stickiest compound on road cars. e.g BAC mono is the super soft compound not summer tire. BMW 1er is Track Tire not the two summer ones. Racecars usually only have wet or dry tires so itís not an issue.

Then I move to the diff.

Again I cure almost all my handling issues with the diff not suspension geometry. Although sometimes it cannot be helped (uneven tire temps -too much camber/ bottoming out Ė raise ride height/bump stops etc)
-Turn in under steer Ė lower decel lock and maybe tweak brake bias if decel is already low
-Overseer/loose rear end (giggity) under braking Ė Raise decel lock and maybe tweak brake bias if decel is already high (50% or more on decal lock is high)
-Oversteer on exit/under throttle Ė increase accel lock (60-70% max as under steer is inevitable after 70%)
-Understeer on exit/under throttle Ė decrease accel lock (25-35% min as risk spinning inside wheel as diff is to loose)

If the following hasnít solved the issues (escort 1600 & vantage GT3 to name two) I move on to the bump and rebound. Slow bump first.

Itís at this point Iím usually swearing and start referring to something like the linked flow diagram BUT I only make one change at a time from now on to highlight if it has made any difference. If you change three things at once you donít know what affected what and your baseline is ruined. In all it usually takes 5-10 mins to dial in a decent working tune for most cars. 10-30mins for unruly cars. And 30-60 mins for cars that forgot how to car. Merc 300sel & Ford Focus ST.

This is my method. Itís the method I use IRL and it has served me well so far but everyone is different.

Happy tuning :)

That's great info!

Do you always tune to the softest tyre compound available? What tyre would you use for base setup if you were preparing for a race that was over 1hr long? I have GT3 In mind when asking.

Cheers

Jake Fangio
27-05-2015, 17:18
Go out and lap the track until every lap time is within half a second of each other and your at your max speed for that track.That's the first most important thing you do,otherwise you dont know if your driving has got better or your setup has made you faster.Then just pick some of what the guys have said above and crack on.

Outlier
27-05-2015, 18:02
Go out and lap the track until every lap time is within half a second of each other and your at your max speed for that track.That's the first most important thing you do,otherwise you dont know if your driving has got better or your setup has made you faster.Then just pick some of what the guys have said above and crack on.

That is a fair point. Although if the car balance is way off and you are spinning out on entry, that does need to get fixed before you can start throwing down laps.

hkraft300
28-05-2015, 01:06
That's great info!

Do you always tune to the softest tyre compound available? What tyre would you use for base setup if you were preparing for a race that was over 1hr long? I have GT3 In mind when asking.

Cheers

Whenever possible I'd recommend tuning with the hardest compound or lowest grip compound. That will highlight deficiencies where a high grip tire will compensate and hide deficiency. That said, you may not use the full potential of the soft compound. its all a balancing act.

MULTIVITZ
28-05-2015, 08:47
Work being the operative word at the mo!
Re: tuning grind

hkraft300
28-05-2015, 09:21
Tuning any car is a grind. Some love the grind, some don't. Sometimes we get lucky and find a sweet spot within minutes, sometimes it eludes us (Audi R18 *cough* multivitz get onto it already *cough*)

Jake Fangio
28-05-2015, 12:47
Yes fair comment also.The cars are well balanced and have plenty of grip in pcars though.And this is with all aids off even the real ones for the GT3's.I am lucky enough to have most of the sims on pc(rfactor,rfactor2,Assetto corsa,GSCE race 07 gtr evolution gtr2,rre and gt legends),and can honestly say that not one car was undrivable with it's base settings and i'm no alien driver either.Some were very difficult granted,but not undrivable.

SinCitySimRacing
28-05-2015, 13:23
Not much for tunning and am only scratching the surface on learning but I try to get my global FFB settings in order with the stock set 1st to reduce time in and out of the menus. Than as others have said I run the stock set to see what its doing than I mainly adjust tire and brake pressues along with brake balance. I have also found sliding the weight bias helps get the car to turn a little better. With my limited tunning knowledge I have found less is more.

MULTIVITZ
29-05-2015, 00:04
The default settings are way off to think you could even get a sweet spot in a short time. But just dialling the tyres and checking the ARB's can do wonders. Sometimes the diffs are turned off completely so turning is light. You really feel it tug the steering if you wack it up. I usually turn up the front rebound some to see how much hold down they give. A stiffer arb will level the car out quicker and dig the tyres in nicely to the camber. Don't mess with the default toe its set for the chassis. But if you feel the need.
And yes the money grind is a thread.

afroguy
29-05-2015, 10:24
Then I would put on the harder compound to begin with and setup to suit. THIS is why we really need the facility to save more than one setup per car per track. I have to screenshot my quali, sprint race and endurance setups for each car and track. Real pain but I digress.

I would also make sure I have at least 50% fuel load as well as if you set up the car to feel good with no fuel on board then the handling characteristics will feel sluggish with a full tank. Vis-ŗ-vis the car could feel twitchy and overly exaggerated with a low fuel load if you setup the car with a max fuel load.

IMO using 50% load helps minimise error in the setup. I also map the front & rear ARB bias buttons to my wheel or additional button box/keypad and dial in/out tweaks as the race runs its course and the car lightens.

Ripgroove
29-05-2015, 10:27
Can camber adjustments be mapped to keyboard keys?

afroguy
29-05-2015, 10:46
Go out and lap the track until every lap time is within half a second of each other

Starting with this will always result in slow inaccurate laps. Yes your times will be consistent but they will be consistently slow. IMO you need a good base setup before you begin finding consistency otherwise you are wasting your time. To quote my Millbrook instructor "Garbage in=garbage out. Poor/no setup=overdriving the car=inconsistency=slow lap times."

It doesn't matter if i'm driving on a sim or at track day/test day/raceday, IRL I always begin by spending 15-20 minutes driving the car straight out of the box with no tweaks at all slowly building my speed trying to find the limit and then whats happens once I exide the limit. Then and only then do I begin tweaking the setup as you have a good understanding of how the car behaves and can push the limit backwards. As Outlier said


That is a fair point. Although if the car balance is way off and you are spinning out on entry, that does need to get fixed before you can start throwing down laps.

afroguy
29-05-2015, 10:47
Can camber adjustments be mapped to keyboard keys?

Not that i know of. Why would you want to change that on the fly anyway?

MikeyTT
29-05-2015, 14:52
Load of really great tips here.

For me learning the track so you're consistent is the #1 thing to do first (as previously mentioned).

The other thing nobody has mentioned here yet is to look at your driving style. Some cars just like to be driven differently, or will yield a faster lap if you just change your lines. Take the Sauber C9 for instance. By changing lines and choosing different places for when you stomp the loud pedal can get you a much faster lap than just changing some of the tuning options ever would. Apex late and get on the power as soon as you can, as that thing is damn fast. Where in the Caterham, it's all about keeping the average speed up, as that's a proper slow car in comparison. Both cars need a different driving style and approach to a lap.

I would recommend you look at the leaderboard times for a car/track combo and if you can be in the top 10-20 default setup times, only then start to look at tuning. For single fast laps that is. If you're doing long races then still do the first bit, but then do trial runs of 10-20 laps and see if your times are consistently quick. If they start to drop off then tune for the long runs and not the fast laps.

Ch1ps N Queso
29-05-2015, 19:37
Here is a nice workflow pdf for GTR2. I can't say whether or not all of it works for Project CARS, but it's a fantastic tool for a beginner tuner (maybe some vets too) to learn from.


http://xploresimracing.com/Series/XSR_SetupGuide.pdf

MULTIVITZ
02-06-2015, 15:29
Looking at what Wilfred said, you may want to start with the default settings, in this game at least.
The clue is in the game title! The penny drops? A feeling made in the nerve matrix as logic prevails?
Now I'm beginning to sound like Stuey lol.