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View Full Version : Clarification regarding track cutting rules in the SMS-R championship



David Semperger
27-05-2015, 18:13
As I'm sure most people are aware by now, at this moment the track limits in pCARS are somewhat lenient at places. Since racing is all about going around the track in the fastest way allowed by the rules many people (including me) took advantage of this in the SMS-R championship. Thing is though, this is clearly not right, the devs know it's not right, nobody is happy. Not long ago, before the end of round 3/4, we were notified that things would change:

https://twitter.com/projectcarsgame/status/602922643344359424

SMS-R competitors cutting corners & exploiting wall-riding will not be tolerated and their ghosts will be analysed before point allocation

However, looking at the current championship leaderboard it's clear that people who utilized track cuts and other tricks got their points: http://www.projectcarsgame.com/esports.html

At the same time we got an update about the devs' official stance: http://www.projectcarsgame.com/home/sms-r-driver-network-championship-update


Corner cutting. Despite over three years of testing both internally and via our WMD community, there are still some instances where some gamers have found ways to cut corners without the Track Cutting system activating. We are currently working on further improvements here and hope to roll these out very soon. Whenever possible, ghosts are reviewed to spot the most egregious instances of these and times are ignored accordingly. It's our aim to continue working with the community to keep on top of this.

Wall-riding. Similarly, there are some gamers that have found unique ways to utilise armco to gain precious seconds. Once again, we are looking at ways to identify and neutralise these opportunities. Going forward, any times achieved using tactics that would have incurred a penalty or flag in real-life will be ignored.

To me this is really confusing. First we are being told that times that were achieved with cuts and other tricks will be ignored, but they clearly weren't. Now after the points were tallied up we once again are told that "going forward, any times achieved using tactics that would have incurred a penalty or flag in real-life will be ignored".

My questions are the following:

1) Why did offenders from the latest rounds get a free pass? Was it because the warning on twitter came after the latest rounds already started? This would make sense to me, because before that we didn't know how will the devs handle this and when someone beat our times by cutting it seemed like a good idea to do the same if we wanted to keep up with the frontrunners.

2) How should we race in the future? Will stricter rules really be enforced for the following rounds? This is really important to know, because if this will be the case of course people should refrain from cutting, even if someone overtakes them on the leaderboards by doing so, since they'll lose their time. As far as I can tell this hasn't happened so far, despite the twitter warning, so I really don't know how I should I treat the track limits going forward. I don't want to lose positions and points to cutters, knowing that I could have kept up with them. Track limits has to be well-defined, otherwise we can't race.

DUST2DEATH
27-05-2015, 20:54
because its a joke and SMS is afraid to wipe the boards and restart the competitions fairly thinking it will harm the game more than the actual wipe. (my opinion/theory)

I know myself, and many others I know now after that little "Response" about the situation have just stopped caring. The wipe of the boards was the only solution we wanted and cared about. If thats not happening and the times arent gone (dont care whether you were #1 or #1000) if you cut, you shouldnt be on the boards. period. simple.

As such time until a wipe happens, the boards are useless and have zero integrity.

Worm
27-05-2015, 21:00
I can't say anything about this mess and decision making that hasn't already been said about Rosie O'Donnell

wearymick
27-05-2015, 23:06
According to the thread discussing track limits they had fixes ready at release but didn't put them into the day 1 release or the recent patch. Afraid they really dug themselves a hole with ths one and then greased the walls with a promotional competition. I believe the expression people are looking for is 'train wreck'.

David Semperger
28-05-2015, 09:12
because its a joke and SMS is afraid to wipe the boards and restart the competitions fairly thinking it will harm the game more than the actual wipe. (my opinion/theory)

Let's not jump to conclusions, shall we?


According to the thread discussing track limits they had fixes ready at release but didn't put them into the day 1 release or the recent patch. Afraid they really dug themselves a hole with ths one and then greased the walls with a promotional competition. I believe the expression people are looking for is 'train wreck'.

I don't think it is. It's not like other sims didn't struggle with this to various degrees, especially this close to release. Hell, R3E recently had to restart an event for the same reasons and they had about the time to get things right as SMS did. Games (and more generally any software) will have bugs. If you think one doesn't have them then you just haven't found them yet. In a competition where the goal is going around the track as fast as possible it's only natural that people will find all the cuts the sim allows. It's what racing teams in the real world do too, find the loopholes in the rules.

This is exactly why we need clarifications from the devs, because we are getting mixed signals in my opinion. Will we get penalized for cutting in the future, even if the patch with the track limit fixed won't arrive for the next rounds? We haven't been so far, despite the warnings, which is really confusing and makes the track limits ambiguous. In a competition it's hard to ignore a cut when I know that I'll lose time and points if I don't use it and the drivers who do may not get penalized for it.

NemethR
28-05-2015, 09:31
Simple way to do it:
For Time Trial, and Community events at least:

Wipe the current leaderboards.

Every driver can do 10 (that is 10) laps at max.
No setup adjustements allowed.
The time is invalidated at the moment, the cars wheel (any) crosses the white line (or curbs).
If you do that in the last 3 corners, your next lap is invalidated too.

End of the story, no cutting anymore.

David Semperger
28-05-2015, 09:56
I don't know the details, but I'd bet that if it would be truly that simple it would be done already, in pCARS and in every other sim as well. Yet, we have issues with track limits to this day, so I think it's very likely that it's not as easy to solve as we'd like to think.

NemethR
28-05-2015, 10:09
I don't know the details, but I'd bet that if it would be truly that simple it would be done already, in pCARS and in every other sim as well. Yet, we have issues with track limits to this day, so I think it's very likely that it's not as easy to solve as we'd like to think.

As you can put a barrier onto the track, or even the tarmac itself, so can you put an invisible clippable wall.
If you touch that wall, your time will be invalidated.

That simple it is. :)

Just because it is not done, it does not mean its hard to do.
It takes time yes, but it is not hard to do.

I actually tried modifying some track back with Race07/GTR2, and I can say, its not hard at all, once you know how to do it. Its just time comsuming.

Joni Varis
28-05-2015, 21:34
So still not any official words about this. Sad it has become this far, there is no point even to try future competitions anymore when there doesnt seem to be any valid rules.

ibby
28-05-2015, 21:42
The problem is probably that the no cutting rule isn't enforceable for the events up to now.
Only now ghost uploads are implemented for the Xbox Events for example:


Ghosts:
* Enabled saving of community event ghosts. These ghosts are automatically stored online, and you can then download ghosts of other players’ laps for these events.

So how would they be able to even look at the cuts until the patch.

David Semperger
28-05-2015, 21:49
Only now ghost uploads are implemented for the Xbox Events for example

That's actually a really good point, I forgot that the 1.3 patch didn't make it to the consoles before this event. When will it be released for the PS4? I haven't followed the news about this.

DUST2DEATH
28-05-2015, 21:54
Let's not jump to conclusions, shall we?




There is no other conclusion to go to.

If they had any intention of wiping the boards, then:


Whenever possible, ghosts are reviewed to spot the most egregious instances of these and times are ignored accordingly. It's our aim to continue working with the community to keep on top of this.

Implies no wipe is coming and they have no intent to wipe. If there was a wipe planned there would be nothing to review. Unless they put in free cam again, the community cant really help unless they are fast enough drivers to follow.


Wall-riding. Similarly, there are some gamers that have found unique ways to utilise armco to gain precious seconds. Once again, we are looking at ways to identify and neutralise these opportunities. Going forward, any times achieved using tactics that would have incurred a penalty or flag in real-life will be ignored.

This one is nothing but fluff. Wall riding and bouncing was reported multiple times years before release. As long as you dont hit head on it doesnt invalidate. Just ping pong your way down bathurst, who cares.

DUST2DEATH
28-05-2015, 21:56
The problem is probably that the no cutting rule isn't enforceable for the events up to now.
Only now ghost uploads are implemented for the Xbox Events for example:



So how would they be able to even look at the cuts until the patch.

Community events ghosts still post to the time trial boards.

ibby
28-05-2015, 23:28
Community events ghosts still post to the time trial boards.

Sure, on PC.
Patch notes state it didn't work like for us on Xbox.
Or do you own the Xbox version and could select Ghosts from Events in the TT section?

DUST2DEATH
28-05-2015, 23:35
Sorry Ibby,

I misread your post.

Either way, they can still see the cuts on pc, same track cut code applies. Easy enough to assume the same cuts would be happening. Very, very frustrating.

RTA nOsKiLlS
08-07-2015, 11:20
They should definitely wipe every time trial leaderboard. I makes no sense to watch every ghost.

Please just wipe them all, then split them into separate car leaderboards. The Escort cannot compete with a Merc DTM, and a BMW 1 series cannot compete against an Gumpert Apollo. GT3 cars cant compete with GT1 cars.

FalkeGT
08-07-2015, 12:28
Hey,

I'm really having a hard time understanding people like the thread opener. I assume you want to play this game beeing a racing sim and beeing respected or gain some kind of honour for beeing better than others, the usual stuff what competing and racing is about. But you're cutting corners, you're using glitches and bugs to get on top and then pretend to be a good racer? You'll never gain a bit a respect that way. At least from my side.

I'm having a even harder time understanding the developer of this game, pretending to sell a racing sim and then running a public championship putting people on the top who play straight against any racing rules.

Just my opinion, but I think the championship and leaderboards are useless with such things going on and people like a David Semperger (and lots of others) playing the game as they do.


Edit / PS.: By postreading my posting, I just thought it's definately in need of even more disrespect for corner cutters, bug-exploiters, 1st corner crashers. They are all [peeeeep] and should all be thrown in the [peeeeeep] ... okok I try to calm down again :)

Jakob
12-07-2015, 12:35
Racing online, I've seen some guys cutting corners and I would do the same to keep up with them, but it wasn't anything to severe. When I would do TT or the SMS driver network challenges, I would select the leaders ghost, think it was either Dubia or Hockenhiem, but some of these guys are going way off track to get a good wide turn into the corners. I Would love to see the leaderboards get wiped and start fresh with the new track limitations. I do feel like the limitations are a bit tight on some tracks. I'd be coming out of some corners with a lot of momentum, ending up on the rumble strip with two wheels in the grass or dirt and get the 5 second penalty, I don't get how that is cutting the track. You see that all the time in real life racing.