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ciderman9000000
28-05-2015, 12:30
Does anyone know of SMS have any plans to randomise weather in career mode? The realistic weather is fantastic but the predictability herein from one season to the next really takes the joy away from the single player game. I don't want to know exactly when it's going to rain and exactly when it will stop, and in scripting the game in this fashion they've hampered what ought to be one of pCars' greatest assets. I don't see the sense in it at all.

ajd440ex
28-05-2015, 13:10
I would like to know also because the script right now seems to be rain every race weekend at least one time. Then rain at every invitational race but not the 125cc Karts. I just want to race and not have to worry about when the rain is going to hit. It rains all the time in my career.

aleph99
28-05-2015, 13:16
The most realistic way to do that would be to offer a "Randomize" option with a slider to set the probability of rain.

Kitt
28-05-2015, 13:19
Yeah I can feel this getting a bit tiresome as you progress though the career

BMASTER
28-05-2015, 13:35
It kinda sounds like it's randomized for each user, but always the same then. Because I only had 3 invitational races with rain so far from a whole season. Only had one race with the caterham, one with the focus rs and one with the bmw m1.

But it's true, this should be randomized, imo even if I restart the weekend, it should be randomized weather.

flymar
28-05-2015, 13:43
It's not that easy.
pCARS tracks are all over the world and their location belongs to one of the 5 (AFAIR) climate zones. To do the randomizing properly we need to gather statistic data of all this climate ranges (sunny, rainy, all cloudy days, % of rain possibility).
Of course we could go with arbitrary 30% clear, 20% cloudy, 20% for rain etc., but then people will cry about not realistic rain in Dubai.

I'm not saying it's impossible and I would be very happy to see that feature but... not as easy as it looks.

Ryno917
28-05-2015, 13:48
I had to exit out of a race due to a PC issue. The first time the race was in the pouring rain. When I fired up the game again and entered the race, it was no longer a wet race. So it's not 100% set that every time you run an event it'll be the same it would seem.

That being said, I have definitely had a higher percentage of wet races than in any series I've ever seen. That's not a complaint, though - I love the wet races.

JDFSSS
28-05-2015, 13:56
I don't have a problem with how the weather works. It seems fairly realistic to me. The only bad thing I've noticed is it seems like when it stops raining, the track dries too quickly. I've seen tracks go from 100% wet in a thunderstorm to nearly completely dry in only a couple minutes.

ciderman9000000
28-05-2015, 13:58
It's not that easy.
pCARS tracks are all over the world and their location belongs to one of the 5 (AFAIR) climate zones. To do the randomizing properly we need to gather statistic data of all this climate ranges (sunny, rainy, all cloudy days, % of rain possibility).
Of course we could go with arbitrary 30% clear, 20% cloudy, 20% for rain etc., but then people will cry about not realistic rain in Dubai.

I'm not saying it's impossible and I would be very happy to see that feature but... not as easy as it looks.

I disagree.

Yeah obviously one would have to look into the weather in terms of probability of rain for each location, but that wouldn't be difficult at all as such information is freely available I imagine. Even so, it wouldn't have to be an absolute true-to-life simulation of real world precipitation models to be better than the absurdly repetitive scripted model currently implemented in the game. Best guess estimates would serve just fine.

It just strikes me as being odd that two of the biggest selling points of the game (weather/realistic career progression) just don't interplay well with one another due to the simple fact that if you have to undertake any given season more than once then last season's weather will be precisely looped. Not only does it entirely spoil the excitement and tension of decision making with regards to the prospect of rain when you know on exactly which lap the rain will stop/start, but also it really hampers the game's potential for feeling 'alive' rather than just a pre-programmed virtual experience presented to the player by the game's developers.

It's exactly the not knowing which makes real motorsport so exciting when the weather comes in, so why go to all the effort of developing a superb weather engine as we find in pCars only to deny the players the potential for excitement therein by ensuring that weather events are entirely scripted and carried over precisely from one season to the next?

k.merse
28-05-2015, 16:51
It also annoys me, especially because in some cases it seems like the weather changes to add some drama to the race, like a heavy rain out of nowhere for the last three laps... I had this in my last career race. 5 laps to go, sky clear, only a few clouds. 4 to go, and uh-oh, some mist is crawling onto the track. 3 to go and rainstorm on the whole track. And it wasn't even the Nordscleife, it was in Silverstone.

myheadhurts
28-05-2015, 17:09
It's not that easy.
pCARS tracks are all over the world and their location belongs to one of the 5 (AFAIR) climate zones. To do the randomizing properly we need to gather statistic data of all this climate ranges (sunny, rainy, all cloudy days, % of rain possibility).
Of course we could go with arbitrary 30% clear, 20% cloudy, 20% for rain etc., but then people will cry about not realistic rain in Dubai.

I'm not saying it's impossible and I would be very happy to see that feature but... not as easy as it looks.

You could pretty easily have 3 or 4 groupings and apply relatively arbitrary percentages. e.g. desert tracks (usually sunny, not many clouds), tropical (when it rains it pours), and temperate (often cloudy/light rain, only occasionally very sunny or tropical rain). I don't think it needs to be done to the precision you suggest - any reasonable guess would be better than having it always rain on a particular track.

ciderman9000000
05-06-2015, 10:25
I don't feel this has been answered properly.

Since beginning this thread the dullness of the experience of weather in solo career has got to the point that I'm considering just giving up with it. I'm currently into my 6th straight season of the GT3 series and, as anyone who has played that particular series will know, the second event Watkins Glen is a rainy one year-in-year-out.

I by now know on exactly which lap on each stage of the event the rain will start, I know exactly how long it will last and exactly how strong it will be each time. It's absolutely ridiculous that anyone should have such exact knowledge of the weather, but that's the way the game is, and genuinely it's really sapping all enjoyment from the career mode right now. Nevermind that the AI drive like superhumans in the wet, that's a bug and will be fixed soon, I get that; but as far as I can gather this deathly boring scripted weather system is entirely intentional, and this complete lack of variation is something I just cannot get my head around.

Please somebody tell me that there's even a little hope of this being reconsidered in future. I think I'll go mad if I have to see the rain begin spitting down on turn 6 of Lap 5 of the GT3 Watkins Glen practice session many more times than I have done already. I want to be excited by the prospect of rain, not fatigued by the hackneyed tedium of its excruciatingly predictable nature.

Mr Akina
05-06-2015, 10:39
On the upside, at least you know when there's a chance of rain... It's not like you get any help from the pit lane! "Pit now!" then a lap later it's a torrential downpour - that's just as frustrating for those who don't know the weather patterns yet. I just start with rain tyres at Zolder these days. The weather is great visually, but the implementation isn't the best. I too hope it's looked at again, like the career mode in general.

The game knows the date you are racing... So why can't it pick the weather from the historical data for that date from a random year?

DozUK
05-06-2015, 10:50
On the upside, at least you know when there's a chance of rain... It's not like you get any help from the pit lane! "Pit now!" then a lap later it's a torrential downpour - that's just as frustrating for those who don't know the weather patterns yet. I just start with rain tyres at Zolder these days. The weather is great visually, but the implementation isn't the best. I too hope it's looked at again, like the career mode in general.

The game knows the date you are racing... So why can't it pick the weather from the historical data for that date from a random year?

Fully agree, the pit guy should not be yelling 'Box now' at you on lap 2 if it's pretty apparent that there is a good chance of rain in the next few laps. I'd sack him on the spot!

I had read that the pit crew would update you with weather forecasts and potential changes, I've not heard anything like this but the complete opposite as described above

MAILERS
05-06-2015, 11:16
It also annoys me, especially because in some cases it seems like the weather changes to add some drama to the race, like a heavy rain out of nowhere for the last three laps... I had this in my last career race. 5 laps to go, sky clear, only a few clouds. 4 to go, and uh-oh, some mist is crawling onto the track. 3 to go and rainstorm on the whole track. And it wasn't even the Nordscleife, it was in Silverstone.

That's the typical unpredictable British weather for ya mate!

Bealdor
05-06-2015, 11:24
Fully agree, the pit guy should not be yelling 'Box now' at you on lap 2 if it's pretty apparent that there is a good chance of rain in the next few laps. I'd sack him on the spot!

I had read that the pit crew would update you with weather forecasts and potential changes, I've not heard anything like this but the complete opposite as described above

They do. I've heard the Stig multiple times telling me "Rain is expected in 30 minutes" for example.

Mr Akina
05-06-2015, 11:27
They do. I've heard the Stig multiple times telling me "Rain is expected in 30 minutes" for example.
Either this is because we are doing shorter races and they don't have "5 minutes" recorded or something.. or it's an Xbox One issue as I've never heard weather mentioned, ever. My races are typically 15-20 minutes and it'll rain on lap 5-6 most places.

ciderman9000000
05-06-2015, 11:36
I'm on Xbox also and race 100% duration.

I've not once had the pit engineer warn me of any weather changes.

ciderman9000000
05-06-2015, 11:49
That's the typical unpredictable British weather for ya mate!

That's the problem though; the weather isn't unpredictable at all — it should be, but it isn't. The complete opposite is true, the weather is entirely predictable. It makes no sense to go to all the trouble of creating such a well presented weather system in-game only to completely nullify any excitement such a system can bring by having scripted weather conditions cycle exactly from one season to the next.

As things stand, unless you change disciplines every season then you're always going to be repeating the exact same races in the exact same conditions over and over. Instead of giving the impression of a budding race-driver working his way up the ranks towards being a champion —as ought to be the case— instead, repeating any series feels like you're stuck on groundhog day, cheating your way to the top via ridiculously easy and precise pit decisions.

I want to race a career without knowing exactly when the rain will come in (if at all) and exactly how long it will last. Without that level of doubt forcing difficult decisions regarding if and when to pit then the whole concept of the weather system is rendered entirely unrealistic and uninteresting. I just don't get it.

EFCMatthew
05-06-2015, 12:11
I agree, it would be nice to see different variations of weather coming into the career mode, it's the same progression every season, like Sakito in the WEC it starts off dry then rains and drys again, it never changes.

TerminatorGR
05-06-2015, 13:29
For a game that places such a big importance on playing the same series again and again (multiple time champion achievement, etc) having preset weather is absolutely ridiculous. It kills the career mode.

ciderman9000000
06-06-2015, 08:30
That's why it's so annoying for me really.

I bought the game on the promise of this sandbox career mode in which you can race anything you choose and progress as quickly or gradually as you like. I like to progress slowly and take my time in any given series, 100% AI causing me to frequently lose races before I've mastered the tracks and the car I'm driving. As an F1 fan my favourite races are those with the chance of rain and the excruciating decisions regarding at what point to pit if the weather does indeed come in; I want that to be replicated in my pCars career, and it really could be if only it were not for this ridiculous system of scripted weather spoiling everything.

This post by Bealdor yesterday in my other weather thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29820-How-is-the-weather-slot-system-implemented-exactly/page2) gives the impression that the career races use the same weather slot system as does the solo event and multiplayer creation modes:


In career mode the weather transitions are linked to the race length. That's why the track dries up very quick in short races.
Essentially every race that is shorter than 2 hours and uses more than one weather slot has some kind of accelerated weather transitioning. (At least that's how I understand the system)

If so then it doesn't seem it would be rocket surgery to adapt the implementation to include some degree of randomisation to the career races. As flymar mentioned earlier, some track locale and season specific guiding would be required for the sake of realism, but I feel that this is such a crucial omission from the game that some effort therein would go a very long way towards making career mode really burst into life.

I'd even be happy to collect the necessary data required for all the tracks in the game for all seasons and suggest reasonable probability patterns myself if that's what it takes. Anything to get away from this dreadful scripted weather.

sVig
06-06-2015, 08:39
I dislike the fact that in the classic gt40 invitational at SONOMA it starts off clear then always starts to rain on lap 4. AT SONOMA :confused:

Always happens like that for me.

wivly
06-06-2015, 12:09
It wouldn't really be that hard to calculate the chance of rain per month for each track. After about 5 minutes of google search I've found out that it rained on 13 of 31 days at the Nürburgring in January 2015. Therefore the chance of rain in January would currently be 41.9%.

Cornflex
06-06-2015, 12:20
It doesn't bother me if it rains during a race in Dubai. It's a place on earth and therefore it could happen. So please make weather conditions random in career mode.

Pez42
07-06-2015, 20:56
Just throwing my 2 cents onto the pile - the scripted weather kills the replayability of the career mode. The whole point of a dynamic weather system in a racing game is to replicate the decisions to be made in a real race with uncertain weather - when to change tyres etc. And the resulting mixing up of the field.
As it is it not only spoils the career mode but for me makes the whole weather system pointless.
Just give us an additional checkbox for the career events to activate random weather. Coming up with half decent rain probabilities for the tracks should not be a colossal effort.

pa_pinkelman
07-06-2015, 21:12
This, and the ai-issues that still aren't patched, is killing career mode for me at the moment. This is a big let down for me.

ciderman9000000
07-06-2015, 22:20
The problem is, whilst the AI issues are a recognised flaw in the game with considerable improvements planned therein, it seems conversely that this enjoyment-sapping scripted weather system is implemented by design.

Is there anyone who could explain this decision and perhaps give some indication that the dev team would be willing to take action to make improvements in future?

pa_pinkelman
08-06-2015, 16:39
The problem is, whilst the AI issues are a recognised flaw in the game with considerable improvements planned therein, it seems conversely that this enjoyment-sapping scripted weather system is implemented by design.

Is there anyone who could explain this decision and perhaps give some indication that the dev team would be willing to take action to make improvements in future?

Yes, that's what I would like to know also, please? WHY?

ciderman9000000
08-06-2015, 17:48
Bealdor just replied in another thread that some invitational events do indeed have randomised weather:


If you do not want rain when you see rain at the start of the race exit it, then restart it and chances are good you will not have rain. This has worked for me a few times when I did not want to race in rain with cars that are hard to handle.


The op is talking about careermode. Weather is scripted in this mode. So a restart wont help


I have done this in career mode only no where else, and a restart did change the weather.


Some invitational events have random weather AFAIK.

If this is the case then why cannot a similar system be implemented for Championship season events?

Bealdor
08-06-2015, 18:19
Bealdor just replied in another thread that some invitational events do indeed have randomised weather:

If this is the case then why cannot a similar system be implemented for Championship season events?

Design decision. The weather conditions are based on real life climate conditions. That means it will rain more in the UK than at Dubai for example.
Randomising the weather doesn't work/look believable when for example doing short races. Imagine a two lap race with random weather going from Clear -> Storm. It would look ridiculous and you had no time to react to it.

That's why controlled weather transitions were chosen to give everyone a believable racing experience, at the cost of variety. That's a typical design decision that have to be made many times during development.
If they it done the other way around the other half of players would complain about the unconvincing weather transitions and unrealistic conditions at a specific track.

ciderman9000000
08-06-2015, 19:23
That's why controlled weather transitions were chosen to give everyone a believable racing experience, at the cost of variety.

But it isn't providing a believable racing experience for anyone having to repeat any given championship. Quite the opposite, it's far from believable to be stuck repeating groundhog day weather over and over again, as rather than moving from one season to the next in a believable manner the player is instead deposited twelve months back in time with omnipotent knowledge of exactly when it will rain and exactly when it will stop raining in all upcoming events. Your career doesn't ever move forward at all, it simply skips backwards twelve months at each year's end for you to try again this time with a more accurate cheat-sheet.

IMO all potential for enjoyment of the weather system in career mode is in this way removed entirely. A believable racing experience on a wet weather weekend involves great tension with not knowing exactly if and when the rain will come. Yet we get none of that in pCars since by design the weather is boring and exactly predictable. To say that there's a lack of variation is putting it mildly; in fact there's a mind-numbingly high degree of outright, exact and hopelessly unrealistic repetition.

Why not just come up with a better means of controlling the functionality of the random weather slots so that storms don't break out on perfectly calm days every two minutes? Or at the very least have more than one scripted weather pattern for each track of a championship series? Mix it up a bit, do something, because as design decisions go, this one really hasn't worked one bit as far as I can tell.

With some slight changes there exists the potential for some extremely exciting, realistic and meaningful single-player experiences with this weather system, but as things stand it just isn't there at all. The game has been unnecessarily muzzled and I refuse to accept that there isn't a better solution than this for tackling the potential for the extreme situation you describe above that might arise on a two lap race.

Bealdor
08-06-2015, 19:31
Why not just come up with a better means of controlling the functionality of the random weather slots so that storms don't break out on perfectly calm days every two minutes? Or at the very least have more than one scripted weather pattern for each track of a championship series? Mix it up a bit, do something, because as design decisions go, this one really hasn't worked one bit as far as I can tell.


Funnily enough, that's exactly what I was proposing during development. Believe me when I say that unfortunately this is a big code change you're asking for here.
There are indeed improvements planned for the career weather system but I'm honestly not sure if this will make it into PCARS 1.

Edit: Believe it or not but I'm not a big fan of the scripted weather either but I can understand the limitations the devs have to cope with here.

ciderman9000000
08-06-2015, 19:55
That's fair enough. I do believe you as I fail to see how anyone can be a fan of the scripted weather tbh.

I have no coding experience and truly do not know how big an undertaking it would be to make improvements to the system. I'm simply trying to highlight here an aspect of the game whereby the intended vision is failing to materialise. If it's too big a job to sort out then I can understand that. It's a shame nevertheless.

You said though that some invitational events are indeed more flexible in terms of weather conditions. Is that true? If so then what's so different about the coding therein and why isn't it transferable to championship races?

Bealdor
08-06-2015, 20:07
You said though that some invitational events are indeed more flexible in terms of weather conditions. Is that true? If so then what's so different about the coding therein and why isn't it transferable to championship races?

I think (just a wild guess) that those events with random weather only use one weather slot, which means there can't be unconvincing weather transitions.

ciderman9000000
08-06-2015, 20:56
On a short race then, like in the 2-lap example you used above, why not just similarly restrict to one weather slot? Surely nobody would expect realistic weather transitions on a 2-lap race anyway!

oscarolim
08-06-2015, 21:54
After doing the LMP1 championship four times, it's definitely random.

ciderman9000000
09-06-2015, 02:24
LMP1 championship: 2nd stage, Spa
1st race: Clear
2nd race: Stormy, Haze, Stormy

Every YouTube video of the above races show the exact same weather. Definitely not random.

ciderman9000000
16-06-2015, 09:22
I've not heard one person say that they like the implementation of weather in career mode. Abject dislike of the scripted weather system is unanimous as far as I can tell. Is it really worth crippling the realism of the game in this manner just so the handful of people who play 2 lap races (thus demonstrating a clear lack of enthusiasm for realism) don't find the game to be occasionally somewhat unrealistic?

flymar
16-06-2015, 09:29
I've not heard one person say that they like the implementation of weather in career mode.
I've not heard one person saying they like Internet, but I'm sure they do.:)

I like the implementation of weather in career mode. But I agree some climate based randomness would be great.

ciderman9000000
16-06-2015, 09:34
What do you like about it? The groundhog-day weather, I mean. Are you just saying that to be contrary?

flymar
16-06-2015, 09:39
I like the weather transitions beceuse I've never saw this made like that in any racing game. I like the running clouds, I like setting sun and (maybe the most) I like foggy weather.

ciderman9000000
16-06-2015, 09:53
So it isn't the groundhog-day weather in particular that you like, but rather the graphical representation of the weather in general? I agree wholeheartedly with that, I think the weather looks great even on console, but my assertion that you replied to was that nobody likes the fact that the weather repeats exactly from one short season to the next.

As surely as we all love nice weather effects, as simulation racing fans it's safe to say that we're the vast majority of us much more concerned with the racing implications of the weather and how that effects gameplay. In this sense the weather in the pCars career mode is an outright failure. Through exact repetition of conditions the game entirely fails to realistically simulate the impact of changing weather on motorsport.

Every damn time I take my McLaren GT3 around Watkins Glen I know in exactly which minute of qualifying the rain will start and exactly when the storm will come and go during the main race. There's nothing dynamic or even remotely interesting about that. I've seen the exact same storm occur six times now and I'm destined to see it a further six times (or as long as I'm able to retain the will to live); the entire concept is just ridiculous.

Cornflex
16-06-2015, 13:58
So it isn't the groundhog-day weather in particular that you like, but rather the graphical representation of the weather in general? I agree wholeheartedly with that, I think the weather looks great even on console, but my assertion that you replied to was that nobody likes the fact that the weather repeats exactly from one short season to the next.

As surely as we all love nice weather effects, as simulation racing fans it's safe to say that we're the vast majority of us much more concerned with the racing implications of the weather and how that effects gameplay. In this sense the weather in the pCars career mode is an outright failure. Through exact repetition of conditions the game entirely fails to realistically simulate the impact of changing weather on motorsport.

Every damn time I take my McLaren GT3 around Watkins Glen I know in exactly which minute of qualifying the rain will start and exactly when the storm will come and go during the main race. There's nothing dynamic or even remotely interesting about that. I've seen the exact same storm occur six times now and I'm destined to see it a further six times (or as long as I'm able to retain the will to live); the entire concept is just ridiculous.

Completely agree with what you say.
They create such a beautiful weather engine and cripple it by removing the surprise of random dynamic changes.
Same for the damage model. It is absolutely brilliant and nearly every part can fly off or get crushed. But you won't see it because the sensitivity of the damage model is set far too high. *sigh*

ciderman9000000
18-06-2015, 15:52
I just made this post in the Coming Soon: Solo Mode thread in response to requests for features for a championship creation mode, but I think it's equally valid (if not more so) for solo career also. What do you lads think?


For me it's important that a Championship Creation mode allows for the assigning of intelligently designed random weather.

I don't mean that we be able to simply select any given amount of weather slots and set them to random for any given track of the championship (though that needs to be an option also), but rather an overall 'random' setting can be toggled for the entire championship which would then behind the scenes (ie. without divulging this info to the player) assign a random amount of slots to each track of the championship and fill them with a random, but geographically realistic, pattern of weather.

For example, upon creating a random weather situation for a championship including three events, Silverstone, Dubai and Watkins Glen, you might get the following result:*

Silverstone [3 slots]: overcast/light rain/overcast
Dubai [1 slot]: clear
Watkins Glen [4 slots]: clear/overcast/overcast/clear

But then upon creating the same championship a second time the results would differ, for example:

Silverstone [4 slots]: light rain/light rain/heavy rain/overcast
Dubai [3 slots]: clear/clear/light rain
Watkins Glen [2 slots]: clear/storm

IMO only by allowing such an option will we ever be able to accurately simulate the tension of weather changes in real motorsport.

*remember, these values will be hidden from the player

Cornflex
18-06-2015, 17:15
Or you always have four slots which will be filled randomly (not shown to the player of course).
This can result in four different weather situations or less if the randomizer picks two times "e.g hazy" in a row.

The result is the same as your suggestion but I don't know which one is easier to put in the game.

ciderman9000000
18-06-2015, 17:55
No, you've missed the point.

Nobody wants to have weather changing randomly across four slots in every race they take part in as it would not be realistic at all. The system has to be able to introduce a degree of randomness to the weather, but by using a degree of intelligent design also. There would have to be certain rules to follow.

For example, in a three slot race, there has to be a far greater chance of the weather in slot 1 repeating itself in slot 2 than not (because more often than not, weather doesn't change much over the course of a race), and if indeed the weather does change then there has to be a good chance of slot 2 weather being related to slot 1 in some way; it has to be believable that such a change would occur; i.e. Light Rain to Heavy Rain rather than Clear to Stormy, and these particular probabilities would have to be geographically specific, i.e. very slim chance of a storm in Dubai. It wouldn't be particularly difficult to program something so.

The result would be a very much realistic, but still randomly defined system of weather which would differ from race to race and not be entirely scripted.

Cornflex
18-06-2015, 18:16
No, you've missed the point.

Nobody wants to have weather changing randomly across four slots in every race they take part in as it would not be realistic at all. The system has to be able to introduce a degree of randomness to the weather, but by using a degree of intelligent design also. There would have to be certain rules to follow.

For example, in a three slot race, there has to be a far greater chance of the weather in slot 1 repeating itself in slot 2 (because more often than not, weather doesn't change much over the course of a race), and if not then there has to be a good chance of slot 2 weather being related to slot 1 in some way; it has to be believable that such a change would occur; i.e. Light Rain to Heavy Rain rather than Clear to Stormy, and these particular probabilities would have to be geographically specific, i.e. very slim chance of a storm in Dubai. It wouldn't be particularly difficult to program something so.

The result would be a very much realistic, but still randomly defined system of weather which would differ from race to race and not be entirely scripted.

Okay, got it now.

dodge33cymru
18-06-2015, 18:51
To be honest, I'd rather have random single-slot weather than scripted weather that repeats itself. If the point of including weather is to give variety and unpredictability, this would be arguably more so. As it is, I agree with the guys saying this will be a big repeatability preventer and spoil immersion somewhat.

ciderman9000000
18-06-2015, 19:09
Let me give you an example of the kind of system I propose.

Silverstone, say, in early summer.
Four weather slots

—————

probability of Slot 1 to be:

Group 1
Clear — 0.20
Light Cloud — 0.20
Medium Cloud — 0.10
Heavy Cloud — 0.05

Group 2
Overcast — 0.10
Light Rain — 0.05
Rain — 0.05
Storm — 0.025
Thunderstorm — 0.025

Group 3
Fog — 0.025
Heavy Fog — 0.025
Fog With Rain — 0.025
Heavy Fog With Rain — 0.025
Hazy – 0.10

probability of Slot 2 to be:*

same as previous slot— 0.60
change to:
same group 0.30
different group — 0.10

*repeat for Slots 3 and 4

—————

Does that make sense? The probabilities are off the top of my head and would need some tweaking and, but IMO that would give a passable simulation of changeable weather conditions with a random element, whilst also negating the probability of unrealistically frequent severe weather or unrealistically drastic changes.

Schnizz58
18-06-2015, 20:13
Probably would also want to build in rules that prevent things like going from clear blue to a thunderstorm in the course of a lap. Although I've lived in places that almost do that! Also things like fog are more common in the winter, thunderstorms are more common in the summer, etc.

ciderman9000000
18-06-2015, 20:13
I just used the probability values above to run three random 4 Slot weather patterns and produced the following results. Apologies if the notation is somewhat indecipherable.

Slot 1 [rolled 26]
>20 <40
Light Cloud

Slot 2 [rolled 21]
<60 no change
Light Cloud

Slot 3 [rolled 74]
>60 <90
change same group [rolled 2]
<25
Clear

Slot 4 [rolled 100]
>90
change different group [rolled 13]
>10 <20
Light Rain

Outcome:
Light Cloud/Light Cloud/Clear/Light Rain

—————

Slot 1 [rolled 71]
>70 <75
Rain

Slot 2 [rolled 82]
>60 <90
change same group [rolled 73]
>60 <80
Storm

Slot 3 [rolled 74]
>60 <90
change same group [rolled 100]
>80
Thunderstorm

Slot 4 [rolled 83]
>60 <90
change same group [rolled 63]
>60 <80
Storm

Outcome:
Rain/Storm/Thunderstorm/Storm

—————

Slot 1 [rolled 58]
>55 <65
Overcast

Slot 2 [rolled 24]
<60 no change
Overcast

Slot 3 [rolled 96]
>90
change different group [rolled 32]
>22 <33
Medium Cloud

Slot 4 [rolled 97]
>90
change different group [rolled 64]
>60 <70
Fog

Outcome:
Overcast/Overcast/Medium Cloud/Fog

ciderman9000000
18-06-2015, 20:18
Probably would also want to build in rules that prevent things like going from clear blue to a thunderstorm in the course of a lap. Although I've lived in places that almost do that! Also things like fog are more common in the winter, thunderstorms are more common in the summer, etc.

Agreed, each track (or geographical grouping) would necessarily have differing probability values for each season.

Schnizz58
18-06-2015, 20:23
Agreed, each track (or geographical grouping) would necessarily have differing probability values for each season.
What I was suggesting is that for example in Group 1, if your current weather is light cloud and the next slot will also be in Group 1, then the only options are clear and medium cloud.

Also I love your application of D&D technology to a racing sim. :D

ciderman9000000
18-06-2015, 21:21
What I was suggesting is that for example in Group 1, if your current weather is light cloud and the next slot will also be in Group 1, then the only options are clear and medium cloud.

Also I love your application of D&D technology to a racing sim. :D

Or Heavy Cloud, yes.

So moving from Light Cloud in slot 1, the odds are it will stay the same (60% chance), if it changes (40% chance) then it'll most likely (75% chance) change to weather from the same group. If not then it'll change (25% chance) to a random weather from one of the other two groups.

So the chances of Clear changing immediately to Thunderstorm would be:

0.4*0.25*0.1 = 0.01

So you'd have to race 100 slots of Clear weather before you'd have a 1.0 probability of witnessing such a dramatic change. In real time that's 100 hours racing in Clear weather before you'd come across a storm that way.

Schnizz58
18-06-2015, 21:25
Or Heavy Cloud, yes.

No, what I'm saying is that you can't go from light to heavy, only from light to medium or light to clear. That way you don't go from a thunderstorm to clear blue sky. You limit the amount that the weather can change from one slot to the next.

xXDoc187Xx
18-06-2015, 22:07
Brands hatch and Silverstone always get rain but its worse on Brands Hatch heavy fog and downpour , seriously wtf?

ciderman9000000
18-06-2015, 22:30
No, what I'm saying is that you can't go from light to heavy, only from light to medium or light to clear. That way you don't go from a thunderstorm to clear blue sky. You limit the amount that the weather can change from one slot to the next.

Okay I'm with you.

No reason why light cloud cannot rapidly become heavy cloud in real life though IMO. But yeah perhaps a rule simply blocking Clear to Thunderstorm would be preferable to the 0.1% chance of the basic probability scale.

Another change I'd make would be to put Heavy Cloud in both Groups 1&2 in the probability scale above, this would make Heavy Cloud much more easily turn to wet weather as it wouldn't require a change of group to do so.

doyley101
03-08-2015, 17:58
I am just interested in this design decision. SMS go through all the trouble of creating a random, dynamic weather system and then don't use it for the main mode in the game.
For all its problems, F1 2015 has an excellent dynamic weather system, and it really adds to the gameplay.

Ps: why doesn't the engineer say anything about the weather? I've seen it in preview builds but I've heard nothing at all in my game after many, many hours of play.

Mahjik
03-08-2015, 19:16
I am just interested in this design decision. SMS go through all the trouble of creating a random, dynamic weather system and then don't use it for the main mode in the game.
For all its problems, F1 2015 has an excellent dynamic weather system, and it really adds to the gameplay.


http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?28295-Scripted-weather-in-solo-career&p=975130&viewfull=1#post975130

moving-target
03-08-2015, 19:39
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?28295-Scripted-weather-in-solo-career&p=975130&viewfull=1#post975130

Makes me sad every time I read it...

hope they will fix this "design mistake" :mad:

Joca63
03-08-2015, 21:00
I would like to know also because the script right now seems to be rain every race weekend at least one time. Then rain at every invitational race but not the 125cc Karts. I just want to race and not have to worry about when the rain is going to hit. It rains all the time in my career.

It rains and the track goes wet almost immediately...and then sometimes it only lasts for 2 laps and then it is dry again within the same lap?!?!?! Have you ever seen a track drying in just half of a lap? This is nonsense...I am almost quitting playing career...almost forgot...I was in a race, first place, started to rain in 5 laps and when I went to pit it was occupied by the other team mate??? Bad design...

Skrillex
03-08-2015, 21:34
It rains and the track goes wet almost immediately...and then sometimes it only lasts for 2 laps and then it is dry again within the same lap?!?!?! Have you ever seen a track drying in just half of a lap? This is nonsense...I am almost quitting playing career...almost forgot...I was in a race, first place, started to rain in 5 laps and when I went to pit it was occupied by the other team mate??? Bad design...

That happened to me last night I was so iritated. I have the best idea of all. While I understand rain happens how about just giving us a simple little button giving us a weather "option"? Yes the rain looks cool but I am so tired of half of my season races in career mode being in the rain. I'm now starting to talk to my TV screen. "Of course its raining again"

Nats
04-08-2015, 12:18
That happened to me last night I was so iritated. I have the best idea of all. While I understand rain happens how about just giving us a simple little button giving us a weather "option"? Yes the rain looks cool but I am so tired of half of my season races in career mode being in the rain. I'm now starting to talk to my TV screen. "Of course its raining again"

I fully agree, the whole track drying, wetting and the career weather progression needs to be changed, its not realistic at all. I dont know why this design decision was made but its not a good decision. I think its the worst thing about an otherwise very good game. I am not saying its extremely important, but it is important - the weather affects many races, it has to work well in a game like this. The track should stay wet for much longer, it should take quite a few laps to dry out and weather should progress realistically within bounds set by the race track environment. I dont agree that it is difficult to get that to happen at all. The weather is there it just needs tinkering with. That's not a massive job. If they cant find the time to do these things they should enable the game to be modded.

There no way I am even considering buying pCars 2 if they cant get their first game working properly, considering this has only been out for a few months. Once this game is 'working well' I will consider buying a future edition. How they stand by this edition though is everything.

Mahjik
04-08-2015, 13:25
I fully agree, the whole track drying, wetting and the career weather progression needs to be changed, its not realistic at all. I dont know why this design decision was made but its not a good decision.

It has to do with the weather slots. The weather slots are 1 hour. This means if you want to have a dry slot and a rain slot both within a 30 minute race, you have to accelerate time to make that happen (for shorter races, you need to accelerate more to fit both in). So to have the changing weather during short career races, the time is accelerated which makes the track drying very quick. If you were to run a 2-3 hour race, no time acceleration and changing weather, you will see the track drying properly.

Joca63
04-08-2015, 19:05
It has to do with the weather slots. The weather slots are 1 hour. This means if you want to have a dry slot and a rain slot both within a 30 minute race, you have to accelerate time to make that happen (for shorter races, you need to accelerate more to fit both in). So to have the changing weather during short career races, the time is accelerated which makes the track drying very quick. If you were to run a 2-3 hour race, no time acceleration and changing weather, you will see the track drying properly.

OK, but I believe some kind of adjustment is in need. For example, no weather changes in shorter than an hour races (I am sorry, but imho, a 2-3 to 24 hour race without a mid-save option is just not doable...).

Nats
04-08-2015, 20:06
OK, but I believe some kind of adjustment is in need. For example, no weather changes in shorter than an hour races (I am sorry, but imho, a 2-3 to 24 hour race without a mid-save option is just not doable...).

Oh god dont bring up mid race saves as well! I would love to see that introduced in the game so I can play proper Le Mans races. God that would be wonderful!

wowbaggerBR
05-08-2015, 03:59
I disagree.

Yeah obviously one would have to look into the weather in terms of probability of rain for each location, but that wouldn't be difficult at all as such information is freely available I imagine. Even so, it wouldn't have to be an absolute true-to-life simulation of real world precipitation models to be better than the absurdly repetitive scripted model currently implemented in the game. Best guess estimates would serve just fine.

It just strikes me as being odd that two of the biggest selling points of the game (weather/realistic career progression) just don't interplay well with one another due to the simple fact that if you have to undertake any given season more than once then last season's weather will be precisely looped. Not only does it entirely spoil the excitement and tension of decision making with regards to the prospect of rain when you know on exactly which lap the rain will stop/start, but also it really hampers the game's potential for feeling 'alive' rather than just a pre-programmed virtual experience presented to the player by the game's developers.

It's exactly the not knowing which makes real motorsport so exciting when the weather comes in, so why go to all the effort of developing a superb weather engine as we find in pCars only to deny the players the potential for excitement therein by ensuring that weather events are entirely scripted and carried over precisely from one season to the next?

http://i.imgur.com/JSBTl.gif

pigsy
05-08-2015, 07:14
It has to do with the weather slots. The weather slots are 1 hour. This means if you want to have a dry slot and a rain slot both within a 30 minute race, you have to accelerate time to make that happen (for shorter races, you need to accelerate more to fit both in). So to have the changing weather during short career races, the time is accelerated which makes the track drying very quick. If you were to run a 2-3 hour race, no time acceleration and changing weather, you will see the track drying properly.

Most invitational races are under 10 laps. To have the weather change in that time scale is unrealistic. Just stick with 1 weather slot per session for those. Career races that last for over half an hour maybe have 2 weather slots with some acceleration. Currently it just looks like the developers are showing the prowess of their weather system by trying to add to much variation. Sometimes less is better than more.

Nats
06-08-2015, 13:19
Most invitational races are under 10 laps. To have the weather change in that time scale is unrealistic. Just stick with 1 weather slot per session for those. Career races that last for over half an hour maybe have 2 weather slots with some acceleration. Currently it just looks like the developers are showing the prowess of their weather system by trying to add to much variation. Sometimes less is better than more.

Yeah I think that would make more sense.

Or even just being able to choose a 'random weather type' for each present weather slot type and let you configure each choice with a range would be a good way to do it. Then you could choose yourself how many potential changes you would like to see.

pigsy
14-08-2015, 00:44
It's a shame that the career races are weather scripted. If you can remember a previous race you've been in you can take advantage of pitting when you know it will rain and then dry. But probably the best one to exploit is during qualifying when the session starts out with light rain. Just sit in the pits and let the AI run around in the rain. Using pit monitor just wait for it to start to dry out jump into pit setup just to ensure you're on slicks then run you're best lap in the dry before it starts raining again. The AI will almost always get caught out on the wrong tire and you can bolt up the qualifying board.
Wish these career races used random or real weather. Would make it more unpredictable and enjoyable.

Plato99
14-08-2015, 06:02
Scripted and predictable.
"Medium Cloud" or "Heavy Cloud" means "starts dry, guaranteed to rain within 10 laps".
Start with wets, tyres overheat, AI not concerned with any of this, you lose.
Start with slicks, you race ahead, then it rains, you lose grip, pit, change tyres, AI is already half a lap ahead.
Repeat until next season.

Adam.Freeman
14-02-2016, 19:47
any update on this?

Silraed
14-02-2016, 20:21
any update on this?

It won't change, not at this point.

RacingManiac
15-02-2016, 13:48
So I am not sure how scripted this is. But I recently ran a 320 TC race weekend at Imola in the career mode and I started the practice session in the dry, overcast, then it got foggier and eventually started raining. I had to quit as I had leave for something. Came back, restart the same session. Then this time it is now raining from the beginning. Got foggier, then dried out by the end. That was a bit different than other occurrence of the scripted weather than what I've seen before.

crowtrobot
15-02-2016, 13:56
I've started looking into the career files for just this purpose. I've managed to decode enough to be able to change the track, time of day, and weather per session (meaning for example, Practice 1 of the Formula C USA Championship starting later in the day or going from Storm to Fog instead of Med. Cloud to Clear as is scripted), but not decoded enough yet to make this a simple process for people, nor have I scoped what all such an app would be capable of.

First order would be just to randomize the conditions, but long-term it could mean allowing the user to customize the events in a series on their own, or even adding new series (though this is significantly more work).

Invincible
15-02-2016, 13:56
So I am not sure how scripted this is. But I recently ran a 320 TC race weekend at Imola in the career mode and I started the practice session in the dry, overcast, then it got foggier and eventually started raining. I had to quit as I had leave for something. Came back, restart the same session. Then this time it is now raining from the beginning. Got foggier, then dried out by the end. That was a bit different than other occurrence of the scripted weather than what I've seen before.

As I experienced, only the main career event are scripted. The invitationals are rather random. Had a similar thing occuring. First time dry for 15 min, then light rain. Had a major screw up a bit later and restarted the race. This time it didn't rain until 30 mins in and then a thunderstorm broke loose.

KkDrummer
15-02-2016, 15:27
I've started looking into the career files for just this purpose. I've managed to decode enough to be able to change the track, time of day, and weather per session (meaning for example, Practice 1 of the Formula C USA Championship starting later in the day or going from Storm to Fog instead of Med. Cloud to Clear as is scripted), but not decoded enough yet to make this a simple process for people, nor have I scoped what all such an app would be capable of.

First order would be just to randomize the conditions, but long-term it could mean allowing the user to customize the events in a series on their own, or even adding new series (though this is significantly more work).

man...you pull this one off and I will buy a PC just to play PCars!!! your other mods look awesome btw.

goon
15-02-2016, 16:10
First order would be just to randomize the conditions, but long-term it could mean allowing the user to customize the events in a series on their own, or even adding new series (though this is significantly more work).

This would be a massive enhancement!

Telstar
15-02-2016, 16:23
This would be a massive enhancement!

Indeed. It would open up the door for custom championships.

Haiden
15-02-2016, 17:24
First order would be just to randomize the conditions, but long-term it could mean allowing the user to customize the events in a series on their own, or even adding new series (though this is significantly more work).

Random times and weather was mention to Ian during one of the Q&As. He said it was worth looking into, but never heard anything more. It would make a huge difference in terms of replay ability.

azidahaka
16-02-2016, 13:51
Same words we heard about custom Championships...