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mister dog
28-05-2015, 22:21
Here's a thought, as you guys worked with EA before, wouldn't it be a good idea to use the funds PCARS brings in to acquire a Porsche license?

It would probably be expensive and tricky to negotiate because EA holds on to it so dearly, but it could be seen as a return investment as no other racing games have Porsches in their lineups. EA is focusing on the arcade market anyway with NFS so they shouldn't feel threatened by their former partners.

Imagine the possibilities, especially with the classics as their lineup dates back to the 50's with plenty of exciting road and racecars to chose from.

eracerhead
28-05-2015, 22:38
If it were that simple, SMS would seriously have done so long ago. Money, exclusivity and politics get in the way...

Synergy
28-05-2015, 22:38
EA and Porsche themselves refuse to talk about the matter. I'm pretty sure the producer of PCars even said he was completely over it.

That said there is still hope, as some exceptions have been made, even while Porsche's license was exclusive to EA. Forza 4 saw a DLC with various Porsches like the RS Spyder (which i would like in Pcars.). Real Racing 3 even has the brand new 919 prototype (which i would really want in Pcars). Porsche knows that video games are a good way to create new fans and please petrolheads, that it's good advertisement. And maybe, just maybe in the future, they might reconsider Pcars.

madmax2069
28-05-2015, 22:44
We dont really need Porsche as we have RUF in the game, which if you ask me is just as good if not better.

What we really need is Ferrari.

wraithsrike
28-05-2015, 22:46
Personally I'd sooner have some nice 70's 80's & 90's racers.

KK78
28-05-2015, 22:52
In my opinion, as long as EA have that license no body else has a chance, it's more often the case with video game licenses that the publisher will hold onto them JUST to keep others from having them. Of course it depends how long the license is signed up for but I'm perfectly happy with the RUF's anyway. Lambos or Ferrari's would be most welcome though ;)

Roger Prynne
28-05-2015, 22:59
RUF is not a Porsche....

Ruf vehicles are derived from unmarked Porsche chassis, specifically known as a Body in white. Through these fundamental platforms, RUF design and engineer its own original vehicles. Considering the cars are built from these bare chassis, and thereby assembled using Ruf-made parts and materials, (e.g. CTR2, RT12), instead of badge engineering, the company is officially recognized as a manufacturer by the German government. As such, all RUF models have certified Ruf VIN and serial numbers, and are recognized as production models, as opposed to modified Porsches.

apexatspeed
28-05-2015, 23:07
RUF is not a Porsche....

Ruf vehicles are derived from unmarked Porsche chassis, specifically known as a Body in white. Through these fundamental platforms, RUF design and engineer its own original vehicles. Considering the cars are built from these bare chassis, and thereby assembled using Ruf-made parts and materials, (e.g. CTR2, RT12), instead of badge engineering, the company is officially recognized as a manufacturer by the German government. As such, all RUF models have certified Ruf VIN and serial numbers, and are recognized as production models, as opposed to modified Porsches.

I love when people say that. A Ruf is a modified Porsche just like how a Hennessy Venom is a modified Lotus. They can get it their own Vins and call it what ever they want, but it is a modified Porsche.

Manticore
28-05-2015, 23:09
Real Racing 3 even has the brand new 919 prototype
Real Racing is EA's game, no wonder it has Porsches.

Synergy
28-05-2015, 23:24
Real Racing is EA's game, no wonder it has Porsches.

Aw crap, really? The first is the only one I tried and I was sure it wasn't EA.. Or EA bought 'em after.

They get their god damn greasy hands everywhere.

spinkick
28-05-2015, 23:30
We dont really need Porsche as we have RUF in the game, which if you ask me is just as good if not better.

What we really need is Ferrari.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

iracing even said that they dont use them because the licensing is outrageous

Neil Hopwood
28-05-2015, 23:40
I love when people say that. A Ruf is a modified Porsche just like how a Hennessy Venom is a modified Lotus. They can get it their own Vins and call it what ever they want, but it is a modified Porsche.



Except the Hennessy Venom is registered as a Lotus. The Ruf is registered as a Ruf, not a Porsche.

cossie29
28-05-2015, 23:41
would like to see some classic porsche's in the game for sure,and a martini liveried 918!

apexatspeed
28-05-2015, 23:45
Except the Hennessy Venom is registered as a Lotus. The Ruf is registered as a Ruf, not a Porsche.

Trust me I know, but both cars are modified Lotuses? and Porsches. Nothing more.

Bulltwinkle
28-05-2015, 23:48
I do agree that Ferrari just needs to be in this game, I would like to see Porsche in...Lamborghini too. Does Porsche think EA is the only place they need to be? I may have to crank Forza 4 up in the meantime. :rolleyes:

Kruleworld
29-05-2015, 00:13
We dont really need Porsche as we have RUF in the game, .

Yeah, if i wanted to buy a Porsche, i'd get a RUF.

cerbrus2
29-05-2015, 00:44
The only reason I would want Porsche and Ferrari in the game for is to give the gt40 something to race against. And as for RUF, it's a shame they didn't include the Yellow bird.

transfix
29-05-2015, 00:50
Don't even tease that idea ! I would faint a the thought of that becoming a reality.

miagi
29-05-2015, 01:14
I love when people say that. A Ruf is a modified Porsche just like how a Hennessy Venom is a modified Lotus. They can get it their own Vins and call it what ever they want, but it is a modified Porsche.
You are heavily underestimating RUFs work on the models!


The only reason I would want Porsche and Ferrari in the game for is to give the gt40 something to race against. And as for RUF, it's a shame they didn't include the Yellow bird.

I don't think Porsche had anything to race with the GT40 Mark IV at that time. The Porsche 908 Coupe was too slow and the Porsche 917K 4.9L Flat-12 was crushing everything to bits and pieces.

The Yellow Bird will come!

cudirage13
29-05-2015, 02:21
I need that 919 though more than anything

MarleyMoo
29-05-2015, 03:51
Aw crap, really? The first is the only one I tried and I was sure it wasn't EA.. Or EA bought 'em after.

They get their god damn greasy hands everywhere.

Yup they bought them. At least I proudly never paid a cent for Real Racing :)

Cheesenium
29-05-2015, 04:03
Yup they bought them. At least I proudly never paid a cent for Real Racing :)

What a waste of license to put Porsches in RR3 as you cant even have a proper race in the game.

As much as I want Porsche, it is impossible as far as I know. I am pretty comfortable with Ruf though.

At this point of time, I would love to see Ferrari over Porsche in pCARS.

AngelBrow
29-05-2015, 05:12
Didnt GTR2 have porsches, ferraris, lambos?

Damn... how much money did Simbin throw out? No wonder GTR3 isnt getting anywhere. Lol.

Only reason getting Porsche would be cool, is to get the Porsche LMP1. But the RUFs in the game are real cool.
Better to get the Nissan GT3, Bentley GT3, Ferrari and Lambo GT3

Alan Dallas
29-05-2015, 06:24
Didnt GTR2 have porsches, ferraris, lambos?

Damn... how much money did Simbin throw out? No wonder GTR3 isnt getting anywhere. Lol.

Only reason getting Porsche would be cool, is to get the Porsche LMP1. But the RUFs in the game are real cool.
Better to get the Nissan GT3, Bentley GT3, Ferrari and Lambo GT3
We have the Bentley already. Announced over a year ago. Just not released yet. http://www.wmdportal.com/projectnews/project-cars-welcomes-bentley/

AngelBrow
29-05-2015, 06:40
We have the Bentley already. Announced over a year ago. Just not released yet. http://www.wmdportal.com/projectnews/project-cars-welcomes-bentley/

Omg! That is amazing (old) news! Didnt know that! Absolutly brillant! Just made my day!

dominiczeth
29-05-2015, 06:41
And i'm sure the Bentley will be in the first DLC. :D

And yes Porsche and Ferrari would be nice. Especially the older cars. But at least with porsche it will never happen i think... EA is a real Bitch!

mister dog
29-05-2015, 07:09
If T10 managed it for FM4 (although they have MS backing them financially), you can't say it's impossible if you negotiate it right, and probably hand over a big fat envelope in the process. Depending on how well PCARS does, maybe SMS has a shot especially seeing EA was a partner before which could open some doors. I know it sounds far fetched but still i can dream no? :)

A Porsche license would make PCARS lineup stand out, whilst Lambo's and Ferrari's you have in practically every other racing game already (including the yellow bird). If it really would be impossible i do hope SMS focuses on adding cars that aren't over represented everywhere else. For PC users most of us own Assetto Corsa, and having the same cars in both games takes away a lot of the initial excitement of driving them virtually ("oh look another La Ferrari"). Special cars that you can't drive in most other racing games is what we need IMO, i'm bored of seeing the same ones pop up all over the place.

gp20
29-05-2015, 07:12
First i would like to have more faithful vehicules.
Cars don't turn and lack grip.

Westbeef
29-05-2015, 07:14
I care little for porsche, I want Ferrarri and Volkswagen CC and the Honda touring cars :D

John Hargreaves
29-05-2015, 07:21
For me the Rufs in game are among the best to drive, so I‘m more than happy with what we have plus what might still be coming. I‘d far rather the roster expanded to cover things that are more obviously missing such as the American and Japanese stuff, just to balance things out a bit.
Porsche just seem to exclude themselves from the party, so leave ‘em be if that‘s the way they want it. We‘re all having too much fun behind the green door to care too much.

David Wright
29-05-2015, 07:32
Didnt GTR2 have porsches, ferraris, lambos?

Damn... how much money did Simbin throw out? No wonder GTR3 isnt getting anywhere. Lol.



I think the Ferraris and Porsches in GTR/GTR2 and GTL were licensed through the racing series license (FIA GT and FIA Historic), in the same way as if you obtain the F1 license you get Ferrari. My guess is Simbin didn't throw much money to get these licenses as the racing series were relatively low profile compared to F1 or NASCAR. Indeed I think this was where Simbin were really clever - license a relatively low profile racing series and get Porsches, Ferraris and Lambos included.

The problem was Ferrari and Porsche pulled out of the FIA GT license which is why (the first) GTR3 was canned and we ended up with GTR Evo.

Luke Townsend
29-05-2015, 07:36
What's the obsession with Porsche? RUFs look like them, sound like them, drive like them. All that's missing is a badge, isn't it? The holy grail is Ferrari, surely??? 458 yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :)

N0body Of The Goat
29-05-2015, 07:40
And as for RUF, it's a shame they didn't include the Yellow bird.

Patience, young grasshopper. Good things come to those who wait. ;)

NemethR
29-05-2015, 07:47
What's the obsession with Porsche? RUFs look like them, sound like them, drive like them. All that's missing is a badge, isn't it? The holy grail is Ferrari, surely??? 458 yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :)

Whats the obsession with Ferrari, you can drive a lot of red cars in the game... :P

mister dog
29-05-2015, 07:49
Patience, young grasshopper. Good things come to those who wait. ;)
Not exactly, owned it in AC, FH2, FM4 and the GT series already. http://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/coffee.gif

N0body Of The Goat
29-05-2015, 08:02
Not exactly, owned it in AC, FH2, FM4 and the GT series already. http://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/coffee.gif

And what has that got to do with the price of fish?

Or what cars are in pCARS now and which ones are lined up already to add to pCARS later?:sour:

jgaganas
29-05-2015, 08:15
For me the Rufs in game are among the best to drive, so I‘m more than happy with what we have plus what might still be coming. I‘d far rather the roster expanded to cover things that are more obviously missing such as the American and Japanese stuff, just to balance things out a bit.
Porsche just seem to exclude themselves from the party, so leave ‘em be if that‘s the way they want it. We‘re all having too much fun behind the green door to care too much.

THIS, RUF's are quite fine they way they are... Porsche is doing themselves "not a favor" (their problem).

Machinist90
29-05-2015, 08:19
forget about Porsche...EA is coming with a new NFS and one of the main cars of the trailer is a porsche,that license ain't going anywhere but EA

madmax2069
29-05-2015, 08:35
Whats the obsession with Ferrari, you can drive a lot of red cars in the game... :P
Red yes, but a F-40 or a 250 GTO they are not.

Luke Townsend
29-05-2015, 08:51
Whats the obsession with Ferrari, you can drive a lot of red cars in the game... :P

Haha! That's one point of view! :) Not obsessed personally with Ferrari but having them would add more than adding Porsche GT-type cars when we already have RUFs. Now, if we had a Lotus Evora in the game I would be very happy, even if it was red! :D

Forzatographer
29-05-2015, 08:54
forget about Porsche...EA is coming with a new NFS and one of the main cars of the trailer is a porsche,that license ain't going anywhere but EA

I wouldn't be so sure about it, if Magnus Walker's 277 will actually end up being in FM6 as reported.

Machinist90
29-05-2015, 09:00
I wouldn't be so sure about it, if Magnus Walker's 277 will actually end up being in FM6 as reported.

forza must have some garden to grow money

Forzatographer
29-05-2015, 09:10
forza must have some garden to grow money

Things may have changed. Maybe Porsche itself grew tired of EA's exclusive deal.

AngelBrow
29-05-2015, 09:12
The Bentley Speed 8 LMP1 will be in the first dlc.

If you go to community events and flick to later events ( end of june or beginning of july cant remember) the car that will be used in the event is displayed under your name in top right corner ( on ps4 atleast) there is an event with speed 8 and Racing icones DLC needed.

I know its a porsche thread. But im excited. :)

mister dog
29-05-2015, 09:20
Things may have changed. Maybe Porsche itself grew tired of EA's exclusive deal.
I actually mailed Porsche a while ago asking about it, and urging them to represent their cars in other games as a good way to have extra publicity. All I got was the following 'standard reply' but hopefully i got into their heads a bit:


We enjoy listening to our Porsche fans and we appreciate you taking the time to share your comments about Porsche in video games.

As you may know, in February of this year, Porsche proudly announced the introduction of the Porsche Cayman GT4. The Porsche Cayman GT4 debuted in Real Racing 3 as the first real model vehicle to be introduced in a video game. Additional information regarding future video game contracts for Porsche is not currently available.

transfix
29-05-2015, 11:39
For me the Rufs in game are among the best to drive, so Im more than happy with what we have plus what might still be coming. Id far rather the roster expanded to cover things that are more obviously missing such as the American and Japanese stuff, just to balance things out a bit.
Porsche just seem to exclude themselves from the party, so leave em be if thats the way they want it. Were all having too much fun behind the green door to care too much.

They have done a great job with the Ruf in this game.

ZeroFreak
29-05-2015, 11:48
I really want ferrari in the game i can't wait until a ferrari dlc comes if it comes...

GAT_Montana
29-05-2015, 12:33
I fully understand the obsession for Ferrari...just go out and ask 1000 People to tell you 3 brands of sportcars. What du you expect 999 of them will answer?

Porsche
Ferrari
Lamborghini

Do you think just one of them will answer:

McLaren
Pagani
RUF

And for sure not:

Nissan
Honda
Opel (Vauxhall)
BMW
Mercedes
Audi

Thats a fact. And therefor everyone recomends those cars in a racing game. Not surprsing.

@edit: and no one will cry: look there is a RUF if a Yellow Bird is passing by. I bet they will cry: PORSCHEEEEEEE! :D

John Hargreaves
29-05-2015, 12:43
Sure they are the most popular, but if you're not careful, all games would have the same cars. The less well known ones, say the Ginettas, old bmws, capris etc for me make pCars seem fresher because they are done so well in this game, not just a token gesture to make up the numbers.

GAT_Montana
29-05-2015, 12:44
Sure they are the most popular, but if you're not careful, all games would have the same cars. The less well known ones, say the Ginettas, old bmws, capris etc for me make pCars seem fresher because they are done so well in this game, not just a token gesture to make up the numbers.

Could not more agree on that! That makes pCars realy strong imho

k.merse
29-05-2015, 13:12
Porsche in general doesn't sell its license to anyone except EA.

mister dog
29-05-2015, 13:24
Porsche in general doesn't sell its license to anyone except EA.

From what i understand they made the mistake to sign an exclusivity deal with EA back in the 90's already. And there doesn't seem to be an end date on that contract :upset:

Mr.Smoke
29-05-2015, 14:32
RUF is better then Porsche in every aspect. Why chase after inferior vehicles?

Id love to see the Corvette GT3 & Ferarri 458 dropped into pCARS. Id really like the 787b & Mazda's LMP2 car added as well.

mister dog
29-05-2015, 14:36
RUF is better then Porsche in every aspect. Why chase after inferior vehicles?


http://www.dodge-dart.org/forum/attachments/dodge-dart-general-discussion/33775d1400607452-2-4-beating-1-4-2-0-mpg-flamesuit2.jpg

cerbrus2
29-05-2015, 14:52
RUF is better then Porsche in every aspect. Why chase after inferior vehicles?

Um not quite. Remember that RUF has to buy its chassis from Porsche, they don't engineer and make their own. They buy a high poerformance chassis to start with. And then all they do is stick their own suspention, tuned engine on it and roll it out the door in basic terms.

UKpitbull
29-05-2015, 19:09
Im not that fussed about Porsche but Ive said it for the last couple of years(on many a forum)WE NEED LAMBO'S.Ferrari would be cool aswell.

jsykes
29-05-2015, 20:02
I sincerely disagree with people that equate Ruf with Porsche. They are NOT Porsches and they are very different. The CTR3 is not a Cayman, its based on it, but uses their own body and a turbo engine not available in the Cayman. The RGT-8 is not a 911, it uses an 8 cylinder engine, which no rear engined Porsche does and uses a modified body.

So neither of those cars are really anything like their Porsche counterparts. I'd like a real Cayman and a real 911. Additionally, the model line doesnt nearly cover what is Porsche. What about the 944, an awesome track car. What about the fun of driving the little 914-6 or the classic 550? Where is a classic 90s 930 turbo or the great 911GT3, which no Ruf will handle like.

There is so much more to Porsche that Ruf cant even begin to touch on. In FM4, they were my favorite cars to drive and had faaaaar more usage than any other marque in the game. I miss them.

I dont know if a license is possible or not and it will not change how I feel about the game. However, Ruf is, in no way, any kind of a replacement for Porsche and if, in some way, PCars was able to secure that license, it would truly make this the greatest racing game out there and I would be a very happy boy.

Sonny Crockett
29-05-2015, 20:39
Looks like we are in for another crowd funding then. Lambo's aint cheap.

Mancunain
29-05-2015, 20:47
someone send this post to porsche :) they need to know that they need to take this matter into their own hands.. its their name not EA's :) contract or not.. it needs to be expired by mutual consent as ea do not represent the cars well enough, and their games give no credit to the excellent engineering that goes into Porsche :) Pcars surely will.

But ye, RUF's are certainly good enough.. and although missing a few models/body types of the other company.. they are without doubt very good.

Ferrari's.. meh :) owned many in GT5, but tbh..i cant recall using many of them often.. think my F40 was set up good for nurburgring, the rest just looked good but sat in garage :)
although there is the Ferrari cup cars.. dunno what type of gt class they are.. i have seen them on tracks with other cars too.. but the race had a few classes in...
Ye, the race prepped Ferrari's would be nice addition.. no need to bother with many road cars but the new hybrid i suppose, plus a classic or 2 and the 458 possibly, as it is a great car.

Lambo's.. any race prepped ones maybe.. and possibly the later raod cars.. aventador just cos of its blue flames :) and the new one is nice.. the older ones.. meh.. maybe if u can squeeze the,m into correct classes..


This game is more about racing.. apart from the odd model, most cars above are pretty much supercars for the road.. and if u make more road cars then u have to do the whole spectrum of them.. as in a small collection of what we'd start out in..
80's onwards maybe ? Thank the heavens you put a Sierra in the game xD back in the early 90's they were awesome
but ye, cars like those, rarer road cars that stood out a little in their own era or beyond.. and whole spectrum means prob 1.6 upwards ? (except mini's and things xD) and just like you tell your missus, its not size that matters.. its what it does

I dont mind road cars, in fact i enjoy some of them at times.. i wont mind a small collection of each class, but not 1000 like turismo xD

Ian Bell
29-05-2015, 20:49
someone send this post to porsche :) they need to know that they need to take this matter into their own hands.. its their name not EA's :) contract or not.. it needs to be expired by mutual consent as ea do not represent the cars well enough, and their games give no credit to the excellent engineering that goes into Porsche :) Pcars surely will.

But ye, RUF's are certainly good enough.. and although missing a few models/body types of the other company.. they are without doubt very good.

Ferrari's.. meh :) owned many in GT5, but tbh..i cant recall using many of them often.. think my F40 was set up good for nurburgring, the rest just looked good but sat in garage :)
although there is the Ferrari cup cars.. dunno what type of gt class they are.. i have seen them on tracks with other cars too.. but the race had a few classes in...
Ye, the race prepped Ferrari's would be nice addition.. no need to bother with many road cars but the new hybrid i suppose, plus a classic or 2 and the 458 possibly, as it is a great car.

Lambo's.. any race prepped ones maybe.. and possibly the later raod cars.. aventador just cos of its blue flames :) and the new one is nice.. the older ones.. meh.. maybe if u can squeeze the,m into correct classes..


This game is more about racing.. apart from the odd model, most cars above are pretty much supercars for the road.. and if u make more road cars then u have to do the whole spectrum of them.. as in a small collection of what we'd start out in..
80's onwards maybe ? Thank the heavens you put a Sierra in the game xD back in the early 90's they were awesome
but ye, cars like those, rarer road cars that stood out a little in their own era or beyond.. and whole spectrum means prob 1.6 upwards ? (except mini's and things xD) and just like you tell your missus, its not size that matters.. its what it does

I dont mind road cars, in fact i enjoy some of them at times.. i wont mind a small collection of each class, but not 1000 like turismo xD

While I agree with the sentiments here please don't chase Porsche directly. We don't want to annoy them with the EA contract 'maybe' due to expire.

Mancunain
29-05-2015, 21:14
While I agree with the sentiments here please don't chase Porsche directly. We don't want to annoy them with the EA contract 'maybe' due to expire.

yeah, if i did feel the need to, and could summon the energy to speak to them, then i'd mention no names except ea.. im sure they are aware of the issue with so many previous games knocking on the door.. so its their problem, not ours or yours ;)

Apologies for setting off the alarm bells xD

Ian Bell
29-05-2015, 21:15
yeah, if i did feel the need to, and could summon the energy to speak to them, then i'd mention no names except ea.. im sure they are aware of the issue with so many previous games knocking on the door.. so its their problem, not ours or yours ;)

Apologies for setting off the alarm bells xD

No worries.

mister dog
29-05-2015, 21:30
While I agree with the sentiments here please don't chase Porsche directly. We don't want to annoy them with the EA contract 'maybe' due to expire.

So there is an enddate! http://forum.contatoradar.com.br/public/style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif

RetroNooB
29-05-2015, 22:05
Ive gotta say tho, in reference to the "holy grail" of motorsport, this crown firmly belongs to Ayrton Senna's Mclaren MP4/4!

But im ok with RUF until EA's gunpoint hold over porsche content is over, the way EA hold the gaming industry to ransom is disgusting imho

ermo
29-05-2015, 22:29
While I agree with the sentiments here please don't chase Porsche directly. We don't want to annoy them with the EA contract 'maybe' due to expire.

In the purely hypothetical event that Porsche's contract with EA was 'maybe' about to expire, I can think of at least a couple of Porsches that I would like to see in-game. The Cayman GT4 is an obvious first choice, as it could potentially go head to head with the M3 GT4.

The 918 (up against the P1) and the 919 (up against the R18 @ LeMans) are two other obvious choices. The 911 GT3 RS road-legal version along with its GT3 and Cup siblings are so obvious that they almost don't need to be mentioned.

But if there's one notPorsche that I'd really like to see in-game it's the Singer 911 with the 3.8L Cosworth-tuned engine. Throw in a 914-6 for Doug Arnao to play with for old times' sake and we'd be golden.

Again, all hypothetical of course!

Mr.Smoke
29-05-2015, 22:47
Um not quite. Remember that RUF has to buy its chassis from Porsche, they don't engineer and make their own. They buy a high poerformance chassis to start with. And then all they do is stick their own suspention, tuned engine on it and roll it out the door in basic terms.

They have a close relationship with Porsche, and due to Jr's fascination with them its the platform he opted for building on. They dont just slap their own parts on a Porsche chassis & ship it. They improve upon it in many ways before its branded as a RUF.

Im not knocking Porsche as they do make (mostly) great vehicles, but if i had money to buy either, i certainly wouldnt be visiting my local Porsche dealership.

mantukas334
29-05-2015, 23:41
most unnecessary thread ever

mister dog
30-05-2015, 00:02
most unnecessary thread ever
Care to elaborate at least?

Ryzza5
30-05-2015, 10:02
We should offer to make a game that only has Porsches in it in return for an exclusive license for the next 15 years (which we can sublicense for $$$$$) ;)

chaseydog
30-05-2015, 11:19
If T10 managed it for FM4 (although they have MS backing them financially), you can't say it's impossible if you negotiate it right, and probably hand over a big fat envelope in the process. Depending on how well PCARS does, maybe SMS has a shot especially seeing EA was a partner before which could open some doors. I know it sounds far fetched but still i can dream no? :)

A Porsche license would make PCARS lineup stand out, whilst Lambo's and Ferrari's you have in practically every other racing game already (including the yellow bird). If it really would be impossible i do hope SMS focuses on adding cars that aren't over represented everywhere else. For PC users most of us own Assetto Corsa, and having the same cars in both games takes away a lot of the initial excitement of driving them virtually ("oh look another La Ferrari"). Special cars that you can't drive in most other racing games is what we need IMO, i'm bored of seeing the same ones pop up all over the place.

I'd like to see Porsche's in the game, but not if it means partnering with EA. I'm usually not that cynical but EA seems like the fast road to throwing control of your franchise down the toilet.
If the devs can pull it off without ea I'd love to see the 918 and 919 as well as a 911 GT3

mantukas334
30-05-2015, 11:21
basically a person wants to drive a car named porsche instead of ruf. i mean really? that is your concern?
when licenses involved, i imagine sms doesnt flash money left and right, and porsche license would be the last thing i would get when it only affects the name of the car

mister dog
30-05-2015, 11:25
basically a person wants to drive a car named porsche instead of ruf. i mean really? that is your concern?
when licenses involved, i imagine sms doesnt flash money left and right, and porsche license would be the last thing i would get when it only affects the name of the car

Please read the thread first before you post these conclusions; it's obvious a Ruf isn't the same as a Porsche and that is just talking about the road cars, you also ignore Porsche's racing pedigree with iconic racecars dating back to the 50's which Ruf has nothing to do with neither.

mantukas334
31-05-2015, 00:06
Please read the thread first before you post these conclusions; it's obvious a Ruf isn't the same as a Porsche and that is just talking about the road cars, you also ignore Porsche's racing pedigree with iconic racecars dating back to the 50's which Ruf has nothing to do with neither.

so there is no iconic porsche racecars, so what, there is no iconic ferrari cars, no iconic lambos. do you expect to have every car in history? next guy tells me where is historic audi quatro, where is amazing peugeot 106? lancia stratos and so on and on. but to talk exceptionally about porsches, when we have a substitute looking excactly like it, is crazy

mister dog
31-05-2015, 00:14
so there is no iconic porsche racecars, so what, there is no iconic ferrari cars, no iconic lambos. do you expect to have every car in history? next guy tells me where is historic audi quatro, where is amazing peugeot 106? lancia stratos and so on and on. but to talk exceptionally about porsches, when we have a substitute looking excactly like it, is crazy
You don't get it do you :)

Bongomaster
31-05-2015, 02:06
Ask anyone with a basic knowledge of cars to list three cool car brands and they'll be: Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, probably in that order.
None of which are in Project CARS :(

GAT_Montana
31-05-2015, 17:01
Ask anyone with a basic knowledge of cars to list three cool car brands and they'll be: Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, probably in that order.
None of which are in Project CARS :(

Just go 3 pages back and look for my post ;)

Arkymedes
31-05-2015, 20:03
Yup they bought them. At least I proudly never paid a cent for Real Racing :)

Real Racing 3 is very good though!

Dreco
02-06-2015, 17:10
If this is true the EA-Porsche deal has expired.


Forza Horizon 2 Porsche Expansion Coming at E3

Available exclusively for Forza Horizon 2 for Xbox One, this expansion adds 500 Gamerscore points, new events, and some of the German manufacturer's most legendary cars including the 2014 Porsche 918 Spyder supercar.

http://www.icxm.net/x/Forza-Horizon-2-Porsche-Expansion-Coming.html

Ian Bell
02-06-2015, 17:12
If this is true the EA-Porsche deal has expired.

MS and EA do deals occasionally.

GAT_Montana
02-06-2015, 17:15
Forza 4 had Porsche as well...and everyone knows that MS and EA have a close cooperation since decades...so...what do you think...

cornishbrooksy
02-06-2015, 17:15
Yup, there was a Porsche expansion for Forza 4 if i remember correctly.

Edit: Dam ninjas are about today.

madmax2069
02-06-2015, 17:31
Forza 4 had Porsche as well...and everyone knows that MS and EA have a close cooperation since decades...so...what do you think...
Forza 3 also had Porsche in it

mister dog
02-06-2015, 17:33
I wonder how much it would cost to get a sub license like T10 is getting again now.

TheReaper GT
02-06-2015, 17:43
I Agree that RUF and Porsche are not the same, one is based in the other but carrying a whole lot of exclusive technology. Both being amazing manufacturers. I love RUF, they grew on me since the first Gran Turismo. To be honest, I only want porsches in the game for the same reason I want the Continental GT3, 650S GT3, Viper ACR GT3, GT-R GT3, 458 Italia GT3, Ford GT GT3, XKR GT3, F-Type GT3,Gallardo GT3 Super Trofeo, Huracan GT3, because those are the cars I love and the only porsche that I wanna see in the game is the GT3R, simple like that.

GAT_Montana
02-06-2015, 18:13
I wonder how much it would cost to get a sub license like T10 is getting again now.

You cant compare because Turn10 has sold his soul to MS. With all the positives and negatives....

mire2
02-06-2015, 18:14
Why you want the porsche GT3R? He looks incredible same like the RUF in-game....its boring to have absoulute same looking cars with just another name....then pls better looking porsches, porsche is great but when there are RUF's which look same it make not really a difference

jgaganas
02-06-2015, 18:25
Actually I'm pretty happy for RUF that they are getting some proper attention (and free advertisement), because of Porsche made this terrible "exclusive license" decision.

And if they're going to extend this ***** (EA) deal, they should ***** *****

madmax2069
02-06-2015, 18:27
I Agree that RUF and Porsche are not the same, one is based in the other but carrying a whole lot of exclusive technology. Both being amazing manufacturers. I love RUF, they grew on me since the first Gran Turismo. To be honest, I only want porsches in the game for the same reason I want the Continental GT3, 650S GT3, Viper ACR GT3, GT-R GT3, 458 Italia GT3, Ford GT GT3, XKR GT3, F-Type GT3,Gallardo GT3 Super Trofeo, Huracan GT3, because those are the cars I love and the only porsche that I wanna see in the game is the GT3R, simple like that.

The only way RUF and Porsche are not the same is that RUF is just higher performing then the Porsche counterpart.

RUF is just a tuning house that just so happens to be seen by the government as a stand alone car company.

In reality they are really no different then AMG is to Mercedes, and Steeda is to ford. They take a normal Porsche and tune it for more performance.

mister dog
02-06-2015, 18:31
Why you want the porsche GT3R? He looks incredible same like the RUF in-game....its boring to have absoulute same looking cars with just another name....then pls better looking porsches, porsche is great but when there are RUF's which look same it make not really a difference

You mean like this:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5065/5586409044_15f409e2f3_b.jpg

Or this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/2006FOS_1970Porsche917KGulf.jpg

Or this:

http://cdn.images.autosport.com/specials/60years/photos/large/porsche98.jpg

The possibilities are endless :)

JessicaWalter
02-06-2015, 18:33
how bout some alpina bimmers?

GAT_Montana
02-06-2015, 18:34
The only valid objective indicator for the independence of a manufacturer is if a RUF is passing by and people thinking, oh, look, its a RUF....but....this wont happen...they will call it a Porsche I bet...

Bluntified
02-06-2015, 18:35
The only way RUF and Porsche are not the same is that RUF is just higher performing then the Porsche counterpart.

RUF is just a tuning house that just so happens to be seen by the government as a stand alone car company.

In reality they are really no different then AMG is to Mercedes, and Steeda is to ford. They take a normal Porsche and tune it for more performance.

The same way a NASCAR Chevy is nothing more than an Impala?

GAT_Montana
02-06-2015, 18:36
how bout some alpina bimmers?

You mean in a Porsche/RUF thread? I assume the demand is restricted :)

mister dog
02-06-2015, 18:38
The only valid objective indicator for the independence of a manufacturer is if a RUF is passing by and people thinking, oh, look, its a RUF....but....this wont happen...they will call it a Porsche I bet...

Oh look! It's a Benz:

http://cdn.acidcow.com/content/img/new02/477/02.jpg

Looks legit.

madmax2069
02-06-2015, 18:38
The same way a NASCAR Chevy is nothing more than an Impala?

NASCAR is a racing series not a tuning house.

GAT_Montana
02-06-2015, 18:38
The same way a NASCAR Chevy is nothing more than an Impala?

Just take my example....but...has a NASCAR a street licence? And how many parts are similar? Not sure if your example is valid?

GAT_Montana
02-06-2015, 18:39
Oh look! It's a Benz:

http://cdn.acidcow.com/content/img/new02/477/02.jpg

Looks legit.


Not sure if this car is based on an Mercdes? Is it? For me it looks different?

mister dog
02-06-2015, 18:43
Not sure if this car is based on an Mercdes? Is it? For me it looks different?
It's a BYD F8, and you guessed it like practically all things nowadays it was made in China :)

madmax2069
02-06-2015, 18:48
Not sure if this car is based on an Mercdes? Is it? For me it looks different?

BYD S8 is just a chinese knock off clone basically.

GAT_Montana
02-06-2015, 18:49
It's a BYD F8, and you guessed it like practically all things nowadays it was made in China :)

Well...but wie dont talk about cheap copys of well known European brands. The main question is: how you differentiate between a passing RUF and a Porsche if there are no logos on the cars? Talking about the majority what is not thinking day and night about RUF vs Porsche :)

But OK, I am 100% sure you know allready what I was meaning, you just defend your position. What s absolutely ok!

TheReaper GT
02-06-2015, 21:57
Why you want the porsche GT3R? He looks incredible same like the RUF in-game....its boring to have absoulute same looking cars with just another name....then pls better looking porsches, porsche is great but when there are RUF's which look same it make not really a difference

Because the GT3R is the the porsche that race the ALMS and Le Mans, and because it's a flat 6, the Ruf is V8. Similar look, whole different machines.

e23belen
02-06-2015, 22:38
Because the GT3R is the the porsche that race the ALMS and Le Mans, and because it's a flat 6, the Ruf is V8. Similar look, whole different machines.

It's not the GT3R that races at Le Mans and in ALMS/TUSCC, it's the GT3 RSR. The GT3R is a GT3 spec car that races in multiple national series which allow GT3 spec cars. However, it does not race at Le Mans seeing as how it's not built to LMGTE specifications.

TheReaper GT
03-06-2015, 04:41
It's not the GT3R that races at Le Mans and in ALMS/TUSCC, it's the GT3 RSR. The GT3R is a GT3 spec car that races in multiple national series which allow GT3 spec cars. However, it does not race at Le Mans seeing as how it's not built to LMGTE specifications.

You're right, I aways mix the two up, it's a known issue. Hahaha but you get my point, don't you?

Ryzza5
03-06-2015, 06:12
What annoys me is that for this special pack of 'rare' DLC cars, you could spend roughly the same amount of money for just one vehicle in iRacing. Not that I have any reason to want to play it.

UKpitbull
04-06-2015, 20:37
We NEED LAMBO's..

JessicaWalter
04-06-2015, 20:41
We NEED LAMBO's..

we kinda sorta have one...bimmer m1

Dreco
08-06-2015, 16:11
Confirmed.


The full car list for the Porsche Expansion Pack for Forza Horizon 2 on Xbox One:

2003 Porsche Carrera GT
1989 Porsche 944 Turbo
1987 Porsche 959
1982 Porsche 911 Turbo 3.3
1970 Porsche 914/6
2015 Porsche Cayman GTS
2012 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 (997)
2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S
2014 Porsche 918 Spyder
2015 Porsche Macan Turbo

eracerhead
08-06-2015, 17:07
My mind just can't wrap itself around the licensing headaches involved in having RUF and Porsche in the same game...

XxxMrAssassinxxX
08-06-2015, 17:30
I love the idea of the RUF GT3, but it spoils the realism a little for me as it has a V8 engine, GT3 Porsche's have Flat 6's, please update the game so that the GT3 RUF has a flat 6 and add a GTE spec RUF with a flat 6 engine :-)

Flat 6's rule

jsykes
08-06-2015, 19:28
The only way RUF and Porsche are not the same is that RUF is just higher performing then the Porsche counterpart.

RUF is just a tuning house that just so happens to be seen by the government as a stand alone car company.

In reality they are really no different then AMG is to Mercedes, and Steeda is to ford. They take a normal Porsche and tune it for more performance.

This is simply not true at all. The reason they are considered a manufacturer is because they do significant changes to the vehicle to the point it is no longer considered a Porsche. Its not what AMG does to Mercedes or M does to BMW or Quattro GMBH does to Audi, they actually change the car.

They use a Porsche shell, but that is as far as it goes. They actually install roll cages within the shell and interior hiding it within the a, b and c pillars, they usually alter and use their own fenders and bodywork. They alter the shell enough that it requires its own crash testing and certification. They create their own engines and manufacture the majority of the parts, they dont just bolt a bunch of go fast shit onto the stock engine and chassis.

Its as close to a from scratch build as you can get which is why it was recognized as a manufacturer and not a tuning company.

That said, the fact that T10 has secured a license for Porsche in FM6, I highly doubt we'll see it here cause I'm sure that EA isnt shopping the license around to just anyone that wants it.

TrackDayKC
12-06-2015, 15:34
With the news that Porsche is back in Forza. Is there any hope?

Forza 6 is looking good right now. 450+ cars at launch.

I just hope they have taken some cues from you guys at Project Cars and let us do some real racing.

Im kind of looking at using Project Cars to handle the "Real Racing" half of my car sim experience and Forza will handle the "what can a daily driver do on the track" portion. There is room in the ecosphere for both sims.

TheReaper GT
12-06-2015, 15:38
Not likely to happen, EA is the handler of Porsche brand in the digital world and they charge an absurd amount of money to release the rights no matter how good or desirable the inteded use of said brand. If you see Porsche in a non EA game, make no mistake, the license alone costs more than my kidney.

Raven403
12-06-2015, 15:39
Not likely to happen, EA is the handler of Porsche brand in the digital world and they charge an absurd amount of money to release the rights no matter how good or desirable the inteded use of said brand. If you see Porsche in a non EA game, make no mistake, the license alone costs more than my kidney.

Yours and Mine put together

g33k hack3rs
12-06-2015, 15:51
Porsche pack was just released for Horizon but Turn10 has deep pockets...

JeyD02
12-06-2015, 15:52
Greedy.

Raven403
12-06-2015, 15:53
EA? Greedy? Noooooooooo

Bealdor
12-06-2015, 15:54
Porsche threads merged.

townnet
12-06-2015, 17:06
Porsche are EA exclusive, i wonder still has any car brand exclusive to game company?

Andrew Clark
12-06-2015, 19:37
The way I see it? It is Porsche's loss not only in this game but other games as well and RUF reaping the rewards of it. The hard thing is to see such a great car company tied at the hip to such a shoddy game publisher. Is what I think bothers us enthusiasts the most. Oh well!

Sepp666
17-06-2015, 10:05
Maybe there comes a very small light at the end of tunnel. Look at that:
https://www.gtplanet.net/porsches-exclusive-contract-with-ea-reportedly-set-to-expire-in-2016/?utm_content=buffer38662&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

So, not all hope is gone to see a 917 @ pCARS... Ian, the blades are sharpened?

BatteredSav
17-06-2015, 10:12
Tell ya what mate... Ruf would be rollin in it since all the game developers go to them seeking a replacement for Porsche, and i think they've done well not to give anyone an exclusive license.

mister dog
17-06-2015, 13:50
Maybe there comes a very small light at the end of tunnel. Look at that:
https://www.gtplanet.net/porsches-exclusive-contract-with-ea-reportedly-set-to-expire-in-2016/?utm_content=buffer38662&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

So, not all hope is gone to see a 917 @ pCARS... Ian, the blades are sharpened?

That would be great, the holy grail of licenses saved from the claws of the EA evildoers. Lets dance like it's 1945! http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/dance-smileys/dancing-smiley04.gif

jgaganas
17-06-2015, 13:54
Well, it was "probably" a 15 years contract. NFS Porsche came out 2000 (no rocket science till now).

Big question is, will they "extend" or not!? :P

mister dog
17-06-2015, 13:56
Well, it was 15 years contract. NFS Porsche came out 2000 (no rocket science till now).

Big question is, will they "extend" or not!? :P

No one knew it was a 15 year contract as far as i can tell.

jgaganas
17-06-2015, 14:01
No one knew it was a 15 year contract as far as i can tell.

Read about it some time ago, but i'm sorry i can't remember the source...

Knightfall
17-06-2015, 14:40
Forgive my ignorance, but is the Ferrari license as prickly to secure as the Porsche?

Perhaps more importantly, is there anything we as the community can do to help SMS acquire these?

EHM
17-06-2015, 14:47
Microsoft bought the exclusive rights to Ferrari on Xbox (And PC?) platforms in the early-mid 2000s, either for Project Gotham Racing, Forza Motorsport or both. They had the ability to sublicense other parties, and it was implied by someone quite well known in this community (Maybe that someone is on these forums right now) that Microsoft wasn't too generous with the leasing, I don't know if this was directed at cost, content or what.

That license expired sometime around 2013, as said by Dan Beardawalt himself (Forza Motorsport Director)

From what I've heard Ferrari are very expensive, but it's a completely different situation to Porsche. Ferrari I believe also have full rights over their F1 cars (So that they could be included without an F1 license).

I wouldn't count on this news of the Porsche licence as being completely reliable, Forza Motorsport 6 will receive a Porsche DLC in 2016 sometime (The exact date isn't stated) BUT it's likely to recover cost of the license through DLC sales, and include accurate liveries (Rotham's Cigarettes for example on the 962c I believe cannot be included inside the base game as it's considered illegal advertising in that context, it has to be included via DLC).

AfterAll14
17-06-2015, 14:52
Maybe there comes a very small light at the end of tunnel. Look at that:
https://www.gtplanet.net/porsches-exclusive-contract-with-ea-reportedly-set-to-expire-in-2016/?utm_content=buffer38662&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

So, not all hope is gone to see a 917 @ pCARS... Ian, the blades are sharpened?

Well, I was a huge fan of NFS PU, and I like Porsche. But its only Porsche itself who can handle the problem. If they will give exclusive license to EA again - Porsche is not my favourite manufacturer anymore.

jgaganas
17-06-2015, 15:13
Well, I was a huge fan of NFS PU, and I like Porsche. But its only Porsche itself who can handle the problem. If they will give exclusive license to EA again - Porsche is not my favourite manufacturer anymore.

Exactly, other manufacturers have beautiful daughters too... it's all Porsches loss if they continue "exclusivity".

On the other hand, a 911 is still hot (see Le Mans) ;)

Dents27
17-06-2015, 15:31
Exactly, other manufacturers have beautiful daughters too... it's all Porsches loss if they continue "exclusivity".

On the other hand, a 911 is still hot (see Le Mans) ;)

Not just hot though, smoking hot!

madmax2069
17-06-2015, 15:50
Forgive my ignorance, but is the Ferrari license as prickly to secure as the Porsche?

Perhaps more importantly, is there anything we as the community can do to help SMS acquire these?

Not really because I see many games with Ferrari in it, and even Ferrari only games. Ferrari is definitely easier to get a license for then Porsche.

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 15:53
After their 15 years on the wilderness I expect they'll come back and hand out licenses for free.

For atonement.

EHM
17-06-2015, 15:59
I guess the Irony in the above statement (Whether intentional or not) is that even if the EA deal does expire, who knows how much it will be to actually get a license, something has to fill that EA money void.

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 16:00
I guess the Irony in the above statement (Whether intentional or not) is that even if the EA deal does expire, who knows how much it will be to actually get a license, something has to fill that EA money void.

We'll stick with RUF if it's anything less than 'reasonable'.

SpaceGhost1911
17-06-2015, 16:52
We'll stick with RUF if it's anything less than 'reasonable'.

And MAYBE (just maybe) pick up a license from FABCAR so I can have a 935? Pretty please. :D

PS FABCAR is only a two hour drive from my house... I will go negotiate if need be. LOL


**EDIT** I just found out that RUF did make a 935 Slantnose. That will work for Gr.5!! Just saying. LOL

David Wright
17-06-2015, 16:54
We'll stick with RUF if it's anything less than 'reasonable'.

But RUF don't do a 919 or a 917.

Edit or a 914 - you need a 914 for Doug!

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 17:00
But RUF don't do a 919 or a 917.

Edit or a 914 - you need a 914 for Doug!

Fair point.

Sepp666
17-06-2015, 17:18
The Mercedes-Benz CLK GTR and the McLaren F1 GTR Longtail need the Porsche 911 GT1 as opponent:
http://www11.pic-upload.de/17.06.15/twnuqouuzvr6.jpg (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-27393472/1211.jpg.html)

And the 917 would also fit very nicely.

Dents27
17-06-2015, 17:23
The Mercedes-Benz CLK GTR and the McLaren F1 GTR Longtail need the Porsche 911 GT1 as opponent:
http://www11.pic-upload.de/17.06.15/twnuqouuzvr6.jpg (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-27393472/1211.jpg.html)

And the 917 would also fit very nicely.

The Panoz Esperante is also needed. Man I loved that car in the Gran Turismo series!

EHM
17-06-2015, 17:24
That picture really makes me hope Panoz show up some time.

EDIT: You beat me to it.

hdh
17-06-2015, 18:41
Here's to hoping someone at Porsche is paying attention to how the world of automotive games has changed over the last couple of years. New franchises are popping up left and ringt, each one a new opportunity to showcase your product. And with pCARS on consoles, and Assetto Corsa set for console release next year there is now proper racing sims available on all the biggest platforms.

Considering how Porsche prides itself on their racing heritage and overall commitment to racing this would be the right moment to walk away from EA and let the brand be showcased in other games more relevant to their own philosophy.

A man can dream. :p

dodge33cymru
17-06-2015, 21:27
Oh, if this deal with EA is over, there will be a team at Porsche paying attention and forests will be decimated as they come up with policy after policy regarding the usage, price, availability and placement of their IP, down to the last Michelin sticker.

madmax2069
17-06-2015, 21:42
I'd love to see the 550 in the game on top of quite a few other Porsche models

Racefreak
17-06-2015, 22:23
After their 15 years on the wilderness I expect they'll come back and hand out licenses for free.

For atonement.

It's funny I had that same thought

PJ Dunham
18-06-2015, 12:39
Honestly as nice as it would be to have the Porsche LMP1 and GT cars in PC id rather Ferrari road and race , Jag road race and classic ( silk cut baby) , Mazda 787b lil bit of rotor action , Nissan road race and classic , Toyota, there are so many brands and amazing race cars through time. SMS if they could, could deliver us a new race car a week for 10 years and still wouldn't scratch the surface of all the great cars and Marks past and present.

Its just sad that LMP1 is set at the Top level sport in Career Mode and only Audi is the only real car.
I adore the WEC series especially with Aussies and Kiwis killin it and in Game doing the 24hr of Lemans feels a lil empty with only a few of the real cars on the grid and rest made up to give a race. But I do understand how licencing works and the title is Project Cars not WEC the game and I get that SMS isn't a juggernaught like Turn 10 , Polyphony with the cash backing ( YET )

jgaganas
23-06-2015, 15:47
From the pCARS2 thread (This information is supplied without liability... see Elmos avatar ;))


Porsche confirmed.

Finally we are able to drive the mighty Cayenne!

sVig
23-06-2015, 16:05
Forza Horizon 2 has Porsche now and it's highly likely Forza 6 will.

TheReaper GT
23-06-2015, 16:09
Forza Horizon 2 has Porsche now and it's highly likely Forza 6 will.

Forza 4 had porsches too, T10 and MS drop a truck load of money on EA's lap to make it happen. Don't get fooled by cars on Forza, they can pay for anything they want.

jamespask
30-06-2015, 18:06
And there I was hoping for the 918 spyder

jamespask
30-06-2015, 18:07
Well enjoy this picture of this sexy beast anyway :)

210078

jbjs40
09-03-2016, 21:56
Porsche models needed but I would rather they pack it with others. Lets say 1997 Le Mans pack GT1 cars. Now that I would pay money for! BTCC cars a whole pack not just the BMW TC but the whole herd of them: Civics, Citroens, Cruz, and Lada as well as BMW. Lets think about 1998 BTCC as well cant we? Packs of cars in same classes not individual cars. I am getting sick of these. Also custom championships as well. This is a no brainer. This is perhaps the most irritating thing about Pcars!