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bloodfx
29-05-2015, 10:55
Why did they decide to make cars untunable with part upgrades in Project Cars?

In my honest opinion this game would decimate all if only they added a tuning parts category, but as it is for me Gran Turismo is far better.

Don't get me wrong this game is amazing ,handle is awesome, graphics are awesome, runs well, but the lack of tuning makes it very boring.

Also are there any future plans for tuning parts?

MikeyTT
29-05-2015, 11:07
Most of the cars are full on race cars, so that model doesn't work with those cars. The community decision (feedback/discussion) was not to go down that route.

pCars was never going to be that kind of game. You're also then back to the whole "items locked until you perform X/Y/Z" which was another point that the community didn't want to have as part of the game.

As for plans in the future, I doubt that very much. I've not read a single thread on the old forums that would indicate it's even being considered.

mkstatto
29-05-2015, 11:43
Why did they decide to make cars untunable with part upgrades in Project Cars?

In my honest opinion this game would decimate all if only they added a tuning parts category, but as it is for me Gran Turismo is far better.

Don't get me wrong this game is amazing ,handle is awesome, graphics are awesome, runs well, but the lack of tuning makes it very boring.

Also are there any future plans for tuning parts?

From the other end of the racing spectrum I find pressing 'A' to add various turbo's and flyweels boring. This is a racing game, not pimp my virtual ride.

JDFSSS
29-05-2015, 11:50
Why did they decide to make cars untunable with part upgrades in Project Cars?

In my honest opinion this game would decimate all if only they added a tuning parts category, but as it is for me Gran Turismo is far better.

Don't get me wrong this game is amazing ,handle is awesome, graphics are awesome, runs well, but the lack of tuning makes it very boring.

Also are there any future plans for tuning parts?

I don't understand how the type of tuning in gran turismo is exciting. All you do is add a part to go faster. It requires little technical knowledge or thinking. The type of tuning in this game, setting up the car correctly, is much more challenging and rewarding than just buying a part to go faster.

Thomas Sikora
29-05-2015, 11:52
Also are there any future plans for tuning parts?

NO!

hkraft300
29-05-2015, 12:39
Why did they decide to make cars untunable with part upgrades in Project Cars?

In my honest opinion this game would decimate all if only they added a tuning parts category, but as it is for me Gran Turismo is far better.

Don't get me wrong this game is amazing ,handle is awesome, graphics are awesome, runs well, but the lack of tuning makes it very boring.

Also are there any future plans for tuning parts?

Go play FM/GT
You can't just slap NOS and a "big/bigger/biggest turbo" on your car to be faster around a racetrack. Most cars in this game don't have such parts even available on the market. You can't put a bigger turbo on a GT3 car - they are homologated and regulated by the FIA.

I feel the "tuning" side to this game is so much more extensive than GT (and mostly FM) even with the lack of "parts" especially driving the Formula and prototypes with their detailed list of parameter adjustments, tuning each car for specific tracks etc

MikeyTT
29-05-2015, 13:30
but the lack of tuning makes it very boring.

I've read this type of comment a few times when it comes to "tuning", and I have to admit I just don't get it. What's great about clicking a button to give you a new, bigger, lighter part? You go faster, but then everyone else can do the same and go faster as well, so you don't get an advantage. Most of the race cars have been "upgraded" already within the class rules governing the championships they enter, so SMS have just saved you the hassle of clicking the "upgrade turbo, lighten car" buttons.

Is the challenge not in winning races and being fastest at a certain track? Is that not the ultimate goal in a racing game?

Why not spend the time to play around with the garage set-up and understand what impact it has to a cars handling and speed around a track. Would reducing the rear ARB make my car go quicker? What about a change to the bump or toe values? If you find a slow car boring, then jump into a faster car, after all they're not locked out. Try the Sauber C9. That's a real handful to make go really quick.

Without meaning to preach, but try learning the track really well, and the way the car behaves on that track. I've spent 90% of my time so far in-game at Oulton Park International and Fosters in the Caterham and Escort. I've not played around with the set-ups at all yet, I've just learnt how to go fast at that track. With a default set-up in the Caterham I'm still P1 (Leaderboard - Caterham - Oulton Fosters (http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=2273942801&vehicle=3408754612)). If I can do that on a default set-up then so can anyone else. With a custom set-up I'm sure I could be relegated well down the order.

I guess ultimately you need to decide where you get your kicks from, but I would highly recommend sticking to one car/track combo and really learn it well. Ask for advise on how to improve. If you're PC based then use one of the telemetry tools to log the data and analyse it afterwards. Most of the guys I know that enjoyed the FM upgrade process have really enjoyed the change to approach in racing in pCars. I hope you find a way to really get the best out of pCars too.

loslogo
29-05-2015, 13:56
It would be a different game. (forza)

Love it for what it is

DECATUR PLAYA
29-05-2015, 14:03
So happy SMS went the route they did. Brains and work over gameplay time. I hated that system that's why I didn't like those games. Thank you SMS.

3800racingfool
29-05-2015, 14:27
I've read this type of comment a few times when it comes to "tuning", and I have to admit I just don't get it. What's great about clicking a button to give you a new, bigger, lighter part?

Point and click "tuning" (it's not really tuning is it? more like "upgrading") is popular because it yields the instant gratification of having made a change to the car making it better/faster. It uses simple numbers (higher stage turbo = more hp = faster car) that are easily digested by the masses. Additionally it appeals to the "gearheads" who've always wanted a 650+ hp Subaru WRX STI with a stage 4 turbo and killer exhaust but could never possibly own a stock version let alone something that souped up. (Or maybe they do and are just so full of themselves they need to have the exact same car in a game.)

PCars tuning setup, which is actual tuning, is a lot more daunting at first because there are many settings using strange variables that people don't understand. There's no magic "add horsepower" button and that tends to scare a lot of people.

Personally I've really enjoyed PCars tuning options as it gives an opportunity to learn something I knew/know nothing about. And since it's modeled off of real life I can use much of the knowledge I gain in real world applications. (Should I ever need to)

MikeyTT
29-05-2015, 14:33
Real tuning is a fine art of trial, much error and lots of lappage.

Maybe it's just me on the "tuning/upgrading" thing, but I've only ever seen it as just another artificial step you must take to be up with the fast peeps.

Actually maybe it's an idea for pCars2, but they should create a workshop, where you car port your own cylinder heads, weld your own exhaust systems and dyno the results. The ability to create your own cam profile would take months of trial and error alone ;)

Niveous21
29-05-2015, 14:40
I find it to be a great relief that I don't have to waste hours working on a build, before I can even begin tuning, let alone racing.

Last night I started Formula C in career mode. I sat down to tune it before starting the season, and had the thing nailed down and all settings perfect in less than an hour. On Forza it would take me 3 times that long to optimize a build/tune.

bloodfx
30-05-2015, 18:36
http://www.bhpmsport.com/enginetuning.php

Well if you look at this website you will see tuning parts are a natural part of racing and Project Cars is just the beautiful icing on the cake with the base removed.

Why not cater for both worlds or even 3 worlds and add drifting aswell, along with a bigger audience and bigger sales?

wraithsrike
30-05-2015, 18:40
Simply question for you.

Can you drive any of these cars flat out around any given track? If you're answer is no then you don't need to make them go faster ;-)

This is a sim racing game following rules layed down by FIA ect, all race cars must meet a certain criteria bud

Roger Prynne
30-05-2015, 18:41
This is a Racing SIM not an arcade game where you slap on bigger turbos and such like, the sim abides by racing rules from the real world.

bloodfx
30-05-2015, 19:16
Simply question for you.

Can you drive any of these cars flat out around any given track? If you're answer is no then you don't need to make them go faster ;-)

This is a sim racing game following rules layed down by FIA ect, all race cars must meet a certain criteria bud

Have you ever seen a road car prepared for the track?

BioForce
30-05-2015, 19:35
This is a Racing SIM not an arcade game where you slap on bigger turbos and such like, the sim abides by racing rules from the real world.

With a Pad! ;)

danpinho
30-05-2015, 19:38
I've been playing GT since it's first title and I can say that Pcars is awesome when it comes to tuning aspects. It's a well done concept.

wraithsrike
30-05-2015, 19:42
Have you ever seen a road car prepared for the track?

Thats not what this game is about buddy, you drive for a team, they give you the car you do not build your own.

wraithsrike
30-05-2015, 19:44
With a Pad! ;)

It's down to you what you play it with, many use a wheel set up ;-)

bloodfx
30-05-2015, 19:48
Thats not what this game is about buddy, you drive for a team, they give you the car you do not build your own.

Thats the problem for me, the only part this game doesn't simulate is making your own car.

Go watch video's of cars being made into FIA approved cars and watch all the tuning parts they use.

Ridgey
30-05-2015, 20:54
I want to pretend to be a driver for a pro team not a mechanic.

wraithsrike
30-05-2015, 20:57
Thats the problem for me, the only part this game doesn't simulate is making your own car.

Go watch video's of cars being made into FIA approved cars and watch all the tuning parts they use.

Then this is simply the wrong game for you, this game isn't about the journey of a mechanic it's about the journey of a race driver.

Umer Ahmad
30-05-2015, 21:15
The risk here, and we've seen it before in MANY games, is that you upgrade your car and the rest of the class becomes non-competitive. And project cars we (SMS+WMD) focused a lot in keeping things competitive within the classes.

SMS actually had upgrading logic in Shift1 and anyone who has played that knows the fully upgraded "Works" Lambo LP640 destroys any other car in that game.

So it's not that it cannot be done, but rather given the complexity involved and the desire to maintain interclass equity we left it out. Even in real life racing series (FIA, Tudor...) there Balance of Performance mechanisms to keep things even. One cannot simply "upgrade" the SLS GT3 and race against other cars, that would never be allowed.

hkraft300
02-06-2015, 00:14
Thats the problem for me, the only part this game doesn't simulate is making your own car.

Go watch video's of cars being made into FIA approved cars and watch all the tuning parts they use.

So you're telling me... Audi/Porsche/Lambo buys bolt on parts to convert the R8/911/Huracan road cars into GT3 spec?

And you think a "tuning" upgrade system like in Forza Motorsport "simulates" upgrading the performance of a vehicle?

AND you reckon FIA LMP/GT/Formula rules allow one to slap on a bigger turbo to an LMP/GT/Formula car to compete?

205783

lacslyer
02-06-2015, 00:26
I don't understand how the type of tuning in gran turismo is exciting. All you do is add a part to go faster. It requires little technical knowledge or thinking. The type of tuning in this game, setting up the car correctly, is much more challenging and rewarding than just buying a part to go faster.

This is far from the truth though. While yes, simply adding a part that makes you go faster requires little technical knowledge, it does make you more familiar with how that part is related to the overall mechanics of the car and can be quite informative to new players. Which, in my opinion, can make people better drivers by informing them - and is quite honestly how I, and I'm sure numerous people, learned the general mechanics of a car. FYI, GT adds just as detailed tuning as this game does and is as rewarding.

hkraft300
02-06-2015, 00:43
This is far from the truth though. While yes, simply adding a part that makes you go faster requires little technical knowledge, it does make you more familiar with how that part is related to the overall mechanics of the car and can be quite informative to new players. Which, in my opinion, can make people better drivers by informing them - and is quite honestly how I, and I'm sure numerous people, learned the general mechanics of a car. FYI, GT adds just as detailed tuning as this game does and is as rewarding.

Really?

Click-to-add horsepower teaches nothing about the dynamics of a vehicle, especially if you know nothing of the base vehicle in the first place. What does "high rpm turbo" (that terminology is wrong in itself) or Stage 3 suspension teach you about the mechanics of a car? They're meaningless. They also don't accurately reflect "tuning" effects, thereby actually propagating misinformation.

Tuning in pCars requires a little bit more learning and understanding and personal R&D/track time to develop your own skills as well as a setup for the car to suit your style/purpose (Time trials or endurance racing).
That's IF you want to delve into the tuning aspect of the game. OR have a click through the garage section in this forum/go with defaults.

lacslyer
02-06-2015, 00:50
Really?

Click-to-add horsepower teaches nothing about the dynamics of a vehicle, especially if you know nothing of the base vehicle in the first place. What does "high rpm turbo" (that terminology is wrong in itself) or Stage 3 suspension teach you about the mechanics of a car? They're meaningless. They also don't accurately reflect "tuning" effects, thereby actually propagating misinformation.

Tuning in pCars requires a little bit more learning and understanding and personal R&D/track time to develop your own skills as well as a setup for the car to suit your style/purpose (Time trials or endurance racing).
That's IF you want to delve into the tuning aspect of the game. OR have a click through the garage section in this forum/go with defaults.

"Click to add horsepower" doesn't if you just click and ignore the details given of the part your upgrading, which is something every GT has always had and is a big part of understanding what you're upgrading. Sure, not every single piece is as informative, but the majority of it is at least informative enough for a basic understanding of the mechanics of a car. I'm not saying it'll make you a mechanic overnight, but it can very well inform people of the mechanical parts of the car and what they're responsible for which very few sims provide information on.

Tuning in GT requires just as much learning and understanding, as it's as detailed in its tuning options as pCARS and has been for a very, very long time.

JDFSSS
02-06-2015, 02:10
Tuning in GT requires just as much learning and understanding, as it's as detailed in its tuning options as pCARS and has been for a very, very long time.

Pretty sure this isn't true unless they changed it for GT6 (I stopped playing at GT5). If I remember correctly, there wasn't even an option to adjust tire pressure in GT5, which is the most basic change you would make to a car. The tuning in GT doesn't even compare to the tuning in pCARS in my experience. pCARS simulates so much more aspects of what the car is doing and there is a lot more to consider than compared to making a tune for GT. You couldn't even see something as basic as your tire temps in GT. I don't think you could make asymetrical setups. Managing break temps/wear wasn't a thing. Managing engine wear wasn't a thing. There are other things too. It's really not close imo. I am enjoying the tuning in pCARS much more.

lacslyer
02-06-2015, 02:21
Pretty sure this isn't true unless they changed it for GT6 (I stopped playing at GT5). If I remember correctly, there wasn't even an option to adjust tire pressure in GT5, which is the most basic change you would make to a car. The tuning in GT doesn't even compare to the tuning in pCARS in my experience. pCARS simulates so much more aspects of what the car is doing and there is a lot more to consider than compared to making a tune for GT. You couldn't even see something as basic as your tire temps in GT. I don't think you could make asymetrical setups. Managing break temps/wear wasn't a thing. Managing engine wear wasn't a thing. There are other things too. It's really not close imo. I am enjoying the tuning in pCARS much more.

You're right in that pCARS does simulate more physic aspects than any of the GT games, and I personally think that has more to do with the limitations of the systems that GT has been on more than anything (a key example of why pCARS dumped last gen consoles). However, I wasn't discussing what it simulates, but the tuning options. Which, regardless of missing tire pressure as you mention, is comparable to pCARS regarding tuning options. While it may not have all the precise features of current sims, my point was more that it wasn't quite as simplistic as people in this thread have suggested in it being a click and go type of tuning, and can be as complicated as other sims. While it may lack specific features, it still provides precise tuning that any other sim provides currently. So the whole notion that tuning in pCARS is more complex and requires more learning and understanding of the mechanics of vehicles compared to GT is false. It requires literally the same knowledge.

Tuning and car physics are completely different things and in this instance I'm purely talking about tuning options. Something that GT has firmly excelled in for years.

hkraft300
02-06-2015, 02:54
You're right in that pCARS does simulate more physic aspects than any of the GT games, and I personally think that has more to do with the limitations of the systems that GT has been on more than anything (a key example of why pCARS dumped last gen consoles). However, I wasn't discussing what it simulates, but the tuning options. Which, regardless of missing tire pressure as you mention, is comparable to pCARS regarding tuning options. While it may not have all the precise features of current sims, my point was more that it wasn't quite as simplistic as people in this thread have suggested in it being a click and go type of tuning, and can be as complicated as other sims. While it may lack specific features, it still provides precise tuning that any other sim provides currently. So the whole notion that tuning in pCARS is more complex and requires more learning and understanding of the mechanics of vehicles compared to GT is false. It requires literally the same knowledge.

Tuning and car physics are completely different things and in this instance I'm purely talking about tuning options. Something that GT has firmly excelled in for years.

wOW...

you're talking about Polyphony Digital's Gran Turismo 5+6 correct? Have you even looked at the "tuning" options available in pCars? I'm not talking about some road cars where you only have tire pressures to mess with. Have you looked at GT3/LMP1-2/Formula cars?

So you're telling me that tuning in pCars is NOT more complex than tuning GT - where camber/toe/gearbox/damping (which is just a slider from ~1-10) has almost NO effect on the car's performance...?

wtf...

Charles Gillen
02-06-2015, 02:55
in Forza as far back as the original game. you could upgrade your car to run rivals or TT's. People figured out how to circumvent the system and build cars that were higher in hp or had better grip than the standard cars. These were called "leaderboard" cars. Certain cars were just naturally faster than others without the enhancements.

There was a trick that one could use where you could put heavier wheels on a car and cause the PI to go down. Allowing for more HP. Or run drag slicks that would last for two very fast, grippy laps. Then there was also putting on a part then removing it and leaving the added HP gain, a turbo if I remember right. All this did was create a race to find who could "cheat" the system better than the others. Therefore the competition went from a driving event to a "who can beat the system" event.

By not upgrading the cars, it has somewhat leveled the playing field so that anyone can compete. Now they need to figure out how to keep people on the actuall race track. Get rid of the ability to cut the track. No upgrade of cars of cutting, wallriding and you will have a true competition of driver skill.

PCARs has made a big step in the right direction.

Charles

lacslyer
02-06-2015, 03:00
wOW...

you're talking about Polyphony Digital's Gran Turismo 5+6 correct? Have you even looked at the "tuning" options available in pCars? I'm not talking about some road cars where you only have tire pressures to mess with. Have you looked at GT3/LMP1-2/Formula cars?

So you're telling me that tuning in pCars is NOT more complex than tuning GT - where camber/toe/gearbox/damping (which is just a slider from ~1-10) has almost NO effect on the car's performance...?

wtf...

I'm not sure I understand what makes you think that the GT tuning options have no effect on the car's performance, as they obviously do or people wouldn't provide tuning setups for cars. As well, just because they don't offer as intricate tuning as this game or others might (which isn't exactly true by your example, where they're far more detailed than a simple 1-10 slider) doesn't mean they're as simplistic as you suggest. To the point I'd question that if you've even played GT 5 or 6. Nor is the required knowledge to tune in pCARS any different than GT, or any other sim for that matter - which was my primary point.

hkraft300
02-06-2015, 03:09
I'm not sure I understand what makes you think that the GT tuning options have no effect on the car's performance, as they obviously do or people wouldn't provide tuning setups for cars. As well, just because they don't offer as intricate tuning as this game or others might (which isn't exactly true by your example, where they're far more detailed than a simple 1-10 slider) doesn't mean they're as simplistic as you suggest. To the point I'd question that if you've even played GT 5 or 6. Nor is the required knowledge to tune in pCARS any different than GT, or any other sim for that matter.

205786

Oh of course they make a difference.

fuck all of a difference to be honest.

I've spent hundreds of hours hot lapping and tuning the Ferrari F1 cars in GT5. I've also spent hundreds of hours testing and tuning LMP/Group C/GT cars in GT6.

real-life tuning methodology can't be applied in the GT games because the effect of each tuning move is wrong (misinformation) and vastly different tunes yielded little to no difference. So yes, they are simplistic - just made to look a little fancy. The end result ie effect on the vehicle, is still just simplistic.

Yes, you can delve into the tuning aspects of both games with the same level of knowledge. You will however, come out with vastly different knowledge after a few test sessions.

lacslyer
02-06-2015, 03:20
205786

Oh of course they make a difference.

fuck all of a difference to be honest.

I've spent hundreds of hours hot lapping and tuning the Ferrari F1 cars in GT5. I've also spent hundreds of hours testing and tuning LMP/Group C/GT cars in GT6.

real-life tuning methodology can't be applied in the GT games because the effect of each tuning move is wrong (misinformation) and vastly different tunes yielded little to no difference. So yes, they are simplistic - just made to look a little fancy. The end result ie effect on the vehicle, is still just simplistic.

Yes, you can delve into the tuning aspects of both games with the same level of knowledge. You will however, come out with vastly different knowledge after a few test sessions.

And that I do agree with, that GT6 had serious issues in its tuning options that limited tunes that initially came out shortly after release because of how minimal some were in effecting the car. However, while some tunes offered little to no difference, many tunes do offer advantages. So it's not quite as useless as you suggest that it is, nor simplistic.

As to my primary point that I referred to before, nothing in pCARS is so advanced that it warrants new knowledge in order to take advantage of tuning compared to other sims. It offers similar tuning to GT and other sims, and while it may be more intricate in some areas compared to GT, the knowledge required to understand those changes is no different. So someone experienced in tuning GT would have no problem tuning in pCARS, nor any other sim for that matter. More detail in what you can adjust in tuning doesn't necessarily equate to more complex, just more intricate.

DayGlow
02-06-2015, 03:33
What racing series allows you to bolt on parts to increase performance? I'm pretty sure most if not all race cars in pCars are from single car series or homogenized series. You don't 'tune' cars to increase hp in these series because uts already defined.

hkraft300
02-06-2015, 03:44
So someone experienced in tuning GT would have no problem tuning in pCARS, nor any other sim for that matter..

Yes, it did offer advantages. But not much ie SFA. Because it had minimal effect, I think I can deduce its tuning is simplistic because 99% of the time it was:
- minimum ride height,
- maximum springs/dampers/sways and (EDIT: don't even bother with "dampers" in GT lol)
- 0.0 camber and toe.

If that's not simplistic, I don't know what is.

Agreed, pCars doesn't need any new knowledge compared to other sims. GT5/6 are NOT in the same category of sim.
Yes, they would have problems tuning in pCars because the THE EFFECT OF TUNING IS ALMOST COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in pCars vs GT.
because what GT taught you as a tuner is almost entirely wrong.
how many different ways do I have to say it?

hkraft300
02-06-2015, 03:51
What racing series allows you to bolt on parts to increase performance? I'm pretty sure most if not all race cars in pCars are from single car series or homogenized series. You don't 'tune' cars to increase hp in these series because uts already defined.

Series like Time Attack, certain aspects of rallycross (increasingly more regulated) and Formula drift/ D1 GP I believe allow plenty of bolt ons :p

None of which are a focus of pCars.

Ernie
02-06-2015, 07:37
Tuning the car setup is the only "tuning" for racing cars. Nothing more needed. Real racing is all about equal performance. It's also called "Balance of performance" (BoP).

PCARS is fully aiming for an authentic racing experience. It's not about "grinding some money to buy a stronger engine to rule them all in the next race". This is not NFS Underground.

TrevorAustin
02-06-2015, 08:46
Could we add soccer matches into this as when I play Fifa the games are really good at simulating the experience and I feel that is lacking in Project Cars.

Andy Apex
02-06-2015, 09:05
And imagine all the time wasted arguing about what it should and shouldn't be.
That could be put to better use somewhere else.

jimmyb_84
02-06-2015, 09:48
I did my best small bit of tuning last night mid-race, I made a brake balance adjustment as my rear was "a little loose" gained a seconds and gave me a great sense of achievement!

Strapping a big turbo on and a carbon hood is no rewarding

Equation
02-06-2015, 18:24
This system is better. I want just drive and made some setups.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnxiRt4qeM4