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View Full Version : Is there going to be a fix for invalid laptime?



cossie29
30-05-2015, 15:18
I am sick to death of if you spin or go off close to finish line in Quali, you're laptime and next is invalid! so frustrating i can deal with the laptime of present lap but why next lap! so Effing annoying will this be fixed?

jsydave
30-05-2015, 15:26
There's nothing to fix. If you take, say, the final corner at Snetterton flying over the corner then you've got a fast start to your next lap just by not following the track. It's a good rule.

cossie29
30-05-2015, 15:34
It is not a good rule surelly the computer can know whether an advantage was gained or not?
so i spin to a standstill on last corner get car back on track probably lost 20 secs, why should my next lap be invalidated?

jsydave
30-05-2015, 15:35
It is not a good rule surelly the computer can know whether an advantage was gained or not?
so i spin to a standstill on last corner get car back on track probably lost 20 secs, why should my next lap be invalidated?Don't know if it helps but if you go back down the track a little bit before returning to the black stuff you might not lose the next lap. Found that once or twice last night.

Roger Prynne
30-05-2015, 15:36
Because the computer does not know if it was a mistake or on purpose.

cossie29
30-05-2015, 15:40
well that's obvious, but surely it could gauge if an advantage was had? just another thing wrong with this game!

jsydave
30-05-2015, 15:44
well that's obvious, but surely it could gauge if an advantage was had? just another thing wrong with this game!Not really because it would have to decide what the maximum possible speed coming out of a corner would be which is pretty much impossible.

As I said above try going back before the final corner before rejoining the track. It worked once or twice at Snetterton 200

SpaceMachine
30-05-2015, 16:28
well that's obvious, but surely it could gauge if an advantage was had? just another thing wrong with this game!

With respect, if you keep binning it on the final turn, then it's your driving that's wrong, not the game.

Elmo
30-05-2015, 16:35
This is a deliberate design decision. You could gain an advantage by going off track at the last part of the prior lap.

Marcd23
30-05-2015, 17:33
There is nothing wrong with this at all.

could_do_better
30-05-2015, 17:35
well that's obvious, but surely it could gauge if an advantage was had? just another thing wrong with this game!

Your Sig says it all...

madmax2069
30-05-2015, 17:52
Fall off the track regardless and the lap time will be voided as its now a dirty lap.

And if you go off track close to the finish line it will void the time for the lap you're on and the next lap (because you can gain an advantage that can effect the next lap).

apexatspeed
30-05-2015, 18:32
This is a deliberate design decision. You could gain an advantage by going off track at the last part of the prior lap.

While I agree with everything about gaining speed out of the last corner by going off. I'll just quote you, but this applies to others. There are some tracks where it is too much. Corners that don't have an relation to how much speed you carry down the home stretch will invalidate your next lap. Specifically one track is Nurburgring GP. Clipping too much grass on the final chicane or taking the escape route invalidates your next lap. None of that will effect your exit speed from the final corner.

It might be something SMS should take a look at.

jsydave
30-05-2015, 18:42
That's not untrue but a strict application is fine. Keep it on the black bit is a simple enough instruction. Why go to the probably considerable effort of deciding where to apply the rule and where not - and players won't agree with those decisions either. Keep it simple

Platy
30-05-2015, 19:55
While I agree with everything about gaining speed out of the last corner by going off. I'll just quote you, but this applies to others. There are some tracks where it is too much. Corners that don't have an relation to how much speed you carry down the home stretch will invalidate your next lap. Specifically one track is Nurburgring GP. Clipping too much grass on the final chicane or taking the escape route invalidates your next lap. None of that will effect your exit speed from the final corner.

It might be something SMS should take a look at.

Happens at Silverstone too. Run wide at Stowe and your next lap is invalidated, despite there being 3 more corners before you start your next lap. Seems a bit harsh.

Bouyo
30-05-2015, 22:20
That's not untrue but a strict application is fine. Keep it on the black bit is a simple enough instruction. Why go to the probably considerable effort of deciding where to apply the rule and where not - and players won't agree with those decisions either. Keep it simple

It's just f'ing annoying and pedantic having this 'broad brush' approach. It's simple, but it's the easy way out too. Sometimes one makes little mistakes, but IF they are to no advantage (which is usually the case with running wide on an exit) then why be penalized for them? Sometimes I just want my f'ing lap time RECORDED regardless of whether I caught a couple' blades of grass at the start of the Nurburgring. Even if there were times recorded with an asterisk beside for 'off-track' that would be better.

I think it would be quite easy to designate certain corners at 'no-cut' advantage corners. It's practically the same as having specific DRS zones. Then people could roll around in the mud with impunity along the track, have a bad lap time recorded but be careful not to cut those 'no-cut' corners. I'm thinking turn 1 at Monza ...

Revvin
30-05-2015, 22:32
No fix required, PCars is already generous compared to some games with regards to using the kerbs and beyond.

cossie29
30-05-2015, 22:56
Your Sig says it all...
Oh really, and what your sig says to me is "pedantic geek"!

cossie29
30-05-2015, 23:02
With respect, if you keep binning it on the final turn, then it's your driving that's wrong, not the game.

With respect, So you never bin it no? a few over agressive corners with the Rs500 with no aids, after having an almost perfect lap, to have next lap invalidated is a pita!!

IrideGravity
30-05-2015, 23:07
#18
IrideGravity
Superkart Pilot

Join Date
May 2015
Posts
124
Platform
PC
I think it should be easier to set a lap time. You guys could do away with 80-90% of lap invalidation points and likely not have any cheaters take advantage. What's the point of making it so difficult when leaderboards are broken anyway? Never even bothered to look at them since my times don't register anyway. Invalidating the next lap while your in the first half at every SINGLE track is just stupid. No one is cheating on the second lap by cutting somewhere the first half of the previous lap. The leader boards are broken anyway, no reason to piss off people just trying to post some lap times.


#19
IrideGravity
Superkart Pilot

Join Date
May 2015
Posts
124
Platform
PC
Originally Posted by Roger Prynne
Because the computer does not know if it was a mistake or on purpose.

The computer could be taught whether or not it mattered, if someone wanted to teach it. But a blanket approach is much easier, even if it sucks for the player and is not at all sporting or real. The easy & quick way was opted for many times in the development cycle in this game it appears. At least when it came to porting it anyway.

Btw. This choice makes it far easier to cheat online and intentionally invalidate qualifiying times. You can shove someone off or hit them, whatever you want, pretty easy, and you have just stolen 2-4 minutes of their quali. Leave a second member if your party to do it the next time and boom, the fastest guy in the room is now guaranteed to start in back because just one or two of you were able to follow his progress and invalidate his laps for him. Yes I am seeing people cheating in the lobbies like this. Way too easy to do.

MiZtErNiCe
30-05-2015, 23:14
well the problem i find is it does it by sector, take nordschleife for example if you touch the grass on the long straight its invalidates the lap you are on and the next lap even though there is still about 30seconds to go until you get to the finish line. makes no sense. sure if i cut the last corner then invalidate the next lap but not 30 seconds before i get to the start/finish line. and another thing why invalidate it for 2 wheels going on the grass in nordshleife yet at spa you can take eau rouge and blanchemont with all 4 wheels wrong side of kerbs with no warning or invalidation. some consistency would be nice.

IrideGravity
31-05-2015, 00:33
Yup^^^ I have not seen a penalty at erouge yet. Yet you can cheat it big time. Every lap for a huge advantage leading onto longest straight at spa? I generally hug the inside line, but I think you can run off at corner exit too? There is a huge advantage to be gained by that, but everyone is dealing with the same thing. No reason not to lighten up in some other areas if your letting this go.

Dam351
31-05-2015, 00:42
Btw. This choice makes it far easier to cheat online and intentionally invalidate qualifiying times. You can shove someone off or hit them, whatever you want, pretty easy, and you have just stolen 2-4 minutes of their quali. Leave a second member if your party to do it the next time and boom, the fastest guy in the room is now guaranteed to start in back because just one or two of you were able to follow his progress and invalidate his laps for him. Yes I am seeing people cheating in the lobbies like this. Way too easy to do.[/QUOTE]

This is the annoying thing. Seems to happen so regularly now they've worked it out.
Why should someone gain advantage by using your bumper as their brakes. They knock you over a chicane or corner and you'll receive a penalty of no throttle. That sux bad enough but then watching as the car that pumped you across a corner takes off to gain several seconds of advantage.
Please fix this problem before other mundane request like the colour of the sun or other non racing problems

danpinho
31-05-2015, 03:11
As mentioned before, there is no problem with it. Instead, the game is forgiven in too many tracks and situations. Two wheels on track is pretty simple to understand.

In other hand, if you facing problems while racing online, why dont stop to get in random/erratic races and start looking for a league or other organized race event. There are a LOT of those events out there and usually with fair and decent players.

rocafella1978
31-05-2015, 14:55
just my 5cents to this, can't it be adapted more like in real life too? (meaning: if all 4x wheels are off the track to invalidate the lap...) i was just testing around on Monza, and came off with 2x wheels on right side (variante del rettifilo (T1 & T2)), surely this does not make sense to me, certainly did not gain, actually lost about 1.5secs (red ++), still invalidates complete lap??? just for 2x wheels off?
example: An “officially timed lap” is defined as: A lap with a minimum of two (2) wheels on the racing surface at all times recorded by governing body (FIA, IMSA and etc.) this applies to game maybe/ programmable/ adoptable in game?

just a thought to add to the system...maybe...if possible and accepted by all the pro drivers here and hamilton's/ vettel's/ rosberg's out here.

Roger Prynne
31-05-2015, 15:14
This is all being worked on by the way.

jsydave
31-05-2015, 15:19
In other hand, if you facing problems while racing online, why dont stop to get in random/erratic races and start looking for a league or other organized race event. There are a LOT of those events out there and usually with fair and decent players.But what about if my only online game time comes at, say, 12:30am. I should be able to find a half decent and fair game whenever. Well in an ideal world anyway.

Bobbydakid
31-05-2015, 15:44
But what about if my only online game time comes at, say, 12:30am. I should be able to find a half decent and fair game whenever. Well in an ideal world anyway.

I've never played a racing game where public lobby's have clean racing. You have to join a league for that.

jsydave
31-05-2015, 15:53
I've never played a racing game where public lobby's have clean racing. You have to join a league for that.So I have no hope you're saying? I haven't yet tried to play online but should I even bother if that's when I'm free?

KK78
31-05-2015, 16:00
The bottom line for me is there definitely needs to be a system to prevent people cheating. However the system in PCars as it stands is too basic, indiscriminate and simply applies a penalty whether you intentionally left the track to gain time, slid slightly off a run-off kerb, overshoot a corner slightly, are pushed off by an Ai or human opponent or forced off to avoid a collision.

How anyone can simply say this is right is beyond me, saying it is fine and doesn't need addressing ignores genuine concerns from players and often takes away from the experience because in real life racing the rules are very different and in my opinion it is one of the few areas I lose respect for the game. I was racing at Le Sarthe earlier today and 6 turns from the end of the lap I clip the grass and the current and next laps are invalidated which meant restarting qualifying- this is neither realistic nor encouraging for the player to improve and fight out faster lap times, for me it loses a bit of the immersion if you need to tip toe around in some cars/conditions just to register a decent lap time.

So while a system is needed (corner cutting penalties would suffice but those don't work properly either) to curb cheats it could do with been a little more complex and clever than it's current guise.

Far from game breaking though, more a frustration.

KK78
31-05-2015, 16:04
So I have no hope you're saying? I haven't yet tried to play online but should I even bother if that's when I'm free?

This.

As an example in Driveclub, if you ram an opponent you get a slow down penalty, if you use barriers/track side objects to get around faster you get a slow down penalty, if you sit in the middle of the track or on corners opponents will ghost through you and if you cut the track you will get a slow down penalty which are often severe enough to lose a lot of time. So it is possible to administer appropriate penalties and Drveclub is much better online for it, largely because the idiots have little incentive to keep been idiots.

jsydave
31-05-2015, 16:08
Actually this (entirely valid) discussion has nothing to do with invalidating lap times which I stand by being a good thing. It may not be realistic exactly but we also don't have individual stewards watching all of our races which we would in RL

MiZtErNiCe
31-05-2015, 23:14
how can you say its good to invalidate a "next lap" when you are 30 seconds away from the start finish line. of course invalidating cheat laps is a good thing but this makes no sense. especially as i said before there are certain corners on tracks where you can go all 4 wheels outside the track and not be penalised. consistency is the key as is fairness.

IrideGravity
31-05-2015, 23:40
But what about if my only online game time comes at, say, 12:30am. I should be able to find a half decent and fair game whenever. Well in an ideal world anyway.

Not to mention the biggest league. Matsuo racing or whatever advertises as uk/euro and is likely only a good fit for people in the UK.
I saw 9 posts on the WRC western racing community league forum for psn id's. Not a lot of optimism that that many racers will produce much of anything competitive, but I hope so.

IrideGravity
01-06-2015, 01:06
I've never played a racing game where public lobby's have clean racing. You have to join a league for that.

You have never played Iracing then.
And if you had played gran turismo. You would applaud their effort at penalties. It has problems that can be abused, but at least it's not a free for all.
You can essentially ban wreckers through implementation of rules they won't like. Can also go private with your lobby.

loslogo
01-06-2015, 04:16
Learn to drive. There's your fix.

KK78
01-06-2015, 19:39
Learn to drive. There's your fix.

Hope you don't work in customer service :rolleyes:

GT_Racing
01-06-2015, 19:52
While the last corner doesn't need to be fixed there are plenty of tracks where you can go off 3 or 4 corners before the start straight and it still invalidate your next lap even though your next lap will have no advantage. It is really annoying when you are dodging a slower car in qualfying and run wide a little bit having 0 effect on your next lap.

TSells31
02-06-2015, 01:01
Hope you don't work in customer service :rolleyes:

Dumbing down your simulator because people want to be world champion drivers on day one is not good customer service, at least not for those who purchased your product looking for a simulator.

However, I do agree that this could use some work in a few places. Yes, at some tracks your next lap can be invalidated too early in the previous lap. If they could just make it 100% of the time on the last important corner, that would be plenty accurate for me tbh. The very final corner isn't always the deciding factor on straightaway speed at all courses (smaller chicanes in cars with a lot of downforce for example). It'd be easy enough to just make sure you stay on at the very end of the lap, and easy enough to make consistent 100% of the time, without "teaching" the cpu, which would likely take a lot of tweaking to make everyone even slightly content. It is annoying though when you're still 3 or so corners away from the line, and you just push it a little too far, basically requiring you to restart qualifying, or start from the back.

One change I would really, really like to see (especially in practice), is to make it so that even if your lap is invalidated, it is still timed. It's really annoying when you just want to run a quick hot lap to see if your adjustment shaved off a few tenths in a certain sector, only to invalidate your lap on the opposite side of the track and lose the timer. This is especially annoying in career mode when I'm trying to make quick setups in 15 minute practice sessions, and I want to drop some time in sector 3, only to screw it all up in sector 1. Keep the time so I can reference it but invalidate it scoring wise.