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View Full Version : The Game is been ruined by some! People need to be banned!!



HewisLamilton6
31-05-2015, 13:19
Just finished a 10 lap race, in 1st place and leading by 10 seconds!!

Come around to lap back markers, see a white flag, slow car ahead.

Then i get rammed as i try to pass, manage to keep it under control.

Then next car same thing slows down in-front of me and tries to side swipe me.

How can these players not get banned, we need some control of online races before they ruin it for everyone!!

I Play on PS4 and this happens a lot. How can this be controlled!!!

ROTTEN
31-05-2015, 13:25
It can be controlled with a forum search.

eracerhead
31-05-2015, 13:31
Unfortunately the only thing to do at the moment is keep an eye out for wrecker behavior.

In practice sessions, spend some time in the pits and use the Monitor to review everyone's driving style; learn to avoid those who either can't stay on track or who are obviously trying to spoil others' laps. Report anyone obvious in the Lobby so that they can either be kicked or avoided.

After the the race starts, keep an eye on your mirrors. If you are approaching a corner and someone's closing too fast, try and take an alternate line to avoid being caught when they lock-up and slide through the corner.

When lapping others as you describe, make sure your delta vs the other driver is high and give them a wide berth so that they can't react to you.

If all of the above fails, keep track of who took you out and report them in every lobby they join. After a while the drivers in your regular racing time slot will become aware of who is worth racing with and who isn't, and the wreckers won't have anyone left to victimize.

o Mike V o
31-05-2015, 13:34
You really need to find like minded people and race with, games like this always have some shitty people playing them. I don't know about PS4, but on Xbox I bring up their profile and block/report people like that so their is a smaller chance of me seeing them in the future. Vote to kick works ok for the the corner cutters/crashers but there definitely needs to be a better way to do that.

Daynja
31-05-2015, 13:37
Education is what's needed. The transition from simpler games like Grid Autopsport to pcars brings over various types of players good & bad. Codemasters tried to help players understand some of the basics of F1 with the pre season videos, but didnt go far enough to educate with race etiquette. A more diverse penalty system in Pcars is also needed,and some race engineer voice over work to match. There needs to be contact detection similar to Shift or F1 where the game knows you made contact.

In shift it decided that contact wether it was "paint trading" or full on ramming went towards your aggression level , a reward system with absolutely reasonable use in a racing game other than to promote bad driving i must add. None the less it was still a detection of poor driving which could be implemented in better ways for pcars.

F1 by codemasters detects contact and punishes you accordingly as F1(fia) forbids contact in that series. If players continue to collide and be bad player the game removes them with a black flag

pcars can do this too.It could also bolster (train) race etiquette by adding engineer voice prompts to alert the player that they face a time penalty for continual contact (like it does with corner cutting currently) or warn the player that they will be black flagged for collisions. Then if the bad player still decides to be an arse they get flagged.
Newer players that have never been taught properly can learn and adapt

I would really like to see a similar system iRacing used off track & on for keeping drivers in check (it promotes very good skill improvement and separates the ruthless & malicious away from the clean drivers)

HewisLamilton6
31-05-2015, 13:41
I hear you, but in the heat of the battle i am lucky if i can remember the car there driving. Let alone having time to remember abcdefg123456. I am lucky if its a smaller name. I play usually as part of a website vroom.org and racing is 110% clean. But sometimes i am just hoping in lobby to get some track time in. This behaviour from the few will ruin it for the many. Maybe something like the lapped car being turned ghost will stop there behaviour as they have nothing to hit.

F2kSel
31-05-2015, 13:44
When I'm racing I don't have the time to look at driver names, you can try and look at the replay but a race log would be useful also a button to mark an incident on the replay would help then you could quickly review it.

Even if you do get the name there isn't much you can do if your not the host other than not race on that server which limits your options not the wreckers.

Penalty points may help, both would get points but overall it would help the cleaner driver.

Personally I've been quite lucky so far and only had one person want to wreck me in about 30 races. I did quite that race which was my first as it looked like everyone had decided to make it a free for all, mixed classes and idiots don't mix.

wraithsrike
31-05-2015, 13:46
Just finished a 10 lap race, in 1st place and leading by 10 seconds!!

Come around to lap back markers, see a white flag, slow car ahead.

Then i get rammed as i try to pass, manage to keep it under control.

Then next car same thing slows down in-front of me and tries to side swipe me.

How can these players not get banned, we need some control of online races before they ruin it for everyone!!

I Play on PS4 and this happens a lot. How can this be controlled!!!

On the XB1 we can take a note of the user game tag and block them so we never meet them online again, after a while of doing this you tend to get much cleaner races, does the ps4 have this feature?

Perkele
31-05-2015, 15:07
On the XB1 we can take a note of the user game tag and block them so we never meet them online again, after a while of doing this you tend to get much cleaner races, does the ps4 have this feature?

And if you report player they will take look for it and eventually put people with bad reputation to play with same kind of folks. You also get message when they take actions against player you reported.

RetroNooB
31-05-2015, 15:45
Just finished a 10 lap race, in 1st place and leading by 10 seconds!!

Come around to lap back markers, see a white flag, slow car ahead.

Then i get rammed as i try to pass, manage to keep it under control.

Then next car same thing slows down in-front of me and tries to side swipe me.

How can these players not get banned, we need some control of online races before they ruin it for everyone!!

I Play on PS4 and this happens a lot. How can this be controlled!!!

Join a racing league, theres a fair few about tbh, try xciteracingleague.com, or pcarsleague.com to name a couple, some even do proper santioned championships with cash/gamergear prizes :)

HewisLamilton6
31-05-2015, 16:41
On the XB1 we can take a note of the user game tag and block them so we never meet them online again, after a while of doing this you tend to get much cleaner races, does the ps4 have this feature?

I dont know if this feature is on ps4, i am sure it is. How do you go about doing it on e box ill try next time i am playing

feloney_x
31-05-2015, 16:48
should keep in mind not every one is playing with 200 $ or higher steering wheel either some of us are using xbox and ps3/4 controllers i use a ps3 6 axis reg controller and i can tell you spots on some of thees tracks where i hit a small bump or w/e in the road and it will throw my front end left or right most time to the right witch intern causes an over correct effect because you go to control it and wind up whiping back and forth till you ultimatly spin out of control you guys with wheels always set up the game to run full real witch is fine i like it that way but is harder on the controller players for a few reasons one being the ability to to use controlled acc. / and smooth turns are easier on long drawn out curves where short and fast curves tend to be jerky,

i know some do it on purpos but im just saying make sure its not accidental before you go reporting people for bad game play

creepyd
31-05-2015, 18:06
Don't forget people fairly new to online racing.
I do my utmost to race nicely and not hit other players, but as I'm new I'm still learning how people act and behave, accidents will happen.
If you start punishing players like myself too harshly, we have no chance to learn and get 'up to speed'.

Revvin
31-05-2015, 18:11
Unfortunately this is going to happen in open servers. Your best bet for a decent race is to join one a league. No amount of code can stop someone intentionally wrecking someone.

HBR-Roadhog
31-05-2015, 18:14
Banning is far to harsh in most cases. They really should have an easy method for the host of the lobby to kick anyone they see fit. Would also be nice if there was a way that the host could flag the user as to not allow them to re-join that lobby or optionally any future lobbies that host creates. Would be easy for the good hosts to filter out the nonsense over time and get good racers.

HBR-Roadhog
31-05-2015, 18:16
Unfortunately this is going to happen in open servers. Your best bet for a decent race is to join one a league. No amount of code can stop someone intentionally wrecking someone.

The ability to turn off collisions does a pretty good job ;) I raced online on Forza 2 all the time with collisions off and had a great group of racers that would always join up, the wreckers would get mad and leave when they could not use us for brakes or hit us head on.

I know this takes a lot away from racing but it also solves a lot of problems and a lot of us would like to have the option of racing online without collisions enabled.

madmax2069
31-05-2015, 18:17
When I go to pass someone that is wrecking I try to fake them out and it works the majority of the time.

The major of the wreckers are not good at driving and take themselfs out, when you go to fake them out they either spin out or hold it together, if they hold it together then just start putting a lot of pressure on them and they'll almost always spin out.

If they're stationary its easier to fake them out (unless thay park sideways on the track).

spinkick
31-05-2015, 18:18
Have you guys had AI pass right through you in single player? I have.

Revvin
31-05-2015, 18:26
The ability to turn off collisions does a pretty good job ;) I raced online on Forza 2 all the time with collisions off and had a great group of racers that would always join up, the wreckers would get mad and leave when they could not use us for brakes or hit us head on.

I know this takes a lot away from racing but it also solves a lot of problems and a lot of us would like to have the option of racing online without collisions enabled.

Lol yes fair point but I meant without detracting from the racing and for me it's not racing if you can just ghost through a car

choupolo
31-05-2015, 18:31
I've been frustrated by two particular instances - one getting stuck behind a slower guy who's driving erratically, any overtake I try he tries to side-swipe me. I get past but braking for the next corner, he conveniently forgets to brake altogether and takes me out.

The other was with back markers leading the race and getting blocked and side-swiped by someone coming out of the pits.

I like the idea of profiling players habits and grouping similar players together. I enjoy the thought of a lobby of wreckers all getting ready to start their destruction derby swearing at each other over the mics, whilst another group of clean racers get ready to run at high speeds within centimetres of each other. ;)

Hope one day we get a racing game which can achieve this! Here's to waiting..

xxoxxGURUxxoxx
31-05-2015, 18:51
After the Game Liste all drivers ther whas Inside the Race and all Players can give panelty points so later you can See the Community points ! Easy system easy to implement

HewisLamilton6
31-05-2015, 19:09
should keep in mind not every one is playing with 200 $ or higher steering wheel either some of us are using xbox and ps3/4 controllers i use a ps3 6 axis reg controller and i can tell you spots on some of thees tracks where i hit a small bump or w/e in the road and it will throw my front end left or right most time to the right witch intern causes an over correct effect because you go to control it and wind up whiping back and forth till you ultimatly spin out of control you guys with wheels always set up the game to run full real witch is fine i like it that way but is harder on the controller players for a few reasons one being the ability to to use controlled acc. / and smooth turns are easier on long drawn out curves where short and fast curves tend to be jerky,

i know some do it on purpos but im just saying make sure its not accidental before you go reporting people for bad game play


When the car is waiting for you to come around just to ruin your race, you know when it is done on purpose or not!!

HewisLamilton6
31-05-2015, 19:12
When I go to pass someone that is wrecking I try to fake them out and it works the majority of the time.

The major of the wreckers are not good at driving and take themselfs out, when you go to fake them out they either spin out or hold it together, if they hold it together then just start putting a lot of pressure on them and they'll almost always spin out.

If they're stationary its easier to fake them out (unless thay park sideways on the track).

Thats what i usually try do, fake one way then go the other. It usually works, but sometimes they come head on to get you!!

ccvampyre
31-05-2015, 19:16
contact penalties and invisible wrong way driving is a must WMD!!!!!

the game is totally unplayable currently!!!

homerlvsbeer
31-05-2015, 19:24
Just finished a 10 lap race, in 1st place and leading by 10 seconds!!

Come around to lap back markers, see a white flag, slow car ahead.

Then i get rammed as i try to pass, manage to keep it under control.

Then next car same thing slows down in-front of me and tries to side swipe me.

How can these players not get banned, we need some control of online races before they ruin it for everyone!!

I Play on PS4 and this happens a lot. How can this be controlled!!!

this is controlled in iracing, by allowing reports and replays to show what happened, i wish these lads would just go play cod, if you cant race then dont bother, its kids who have no idea what respects means, or understand any kind of good values, totally dont understand there is a racing code and something called sportsmanship. i blame schools and parents spoiling there kids, kids need a good hard slipper now and then, without it there just wild and out of control and very stupid. i understand how annoying it is ive had it happen so many times if they could just respect the game and others who play it, but am afraid thats simply expecting far too much, there should be bans put in place, it really spoils a game so much. reports with replays is the best way. it has to be done right because otherwise you get idiots getting people BANNED NOT FOR BUMPING THEM BUT BECAUSE THEY DIDNT WIN AND HATE LOSING. because they suck. so they decide they will tell lies and abuse the service, like they abuse the game, hopefully one day they will be able to spot in your dna the idiot genes and eradicate them for good, but for now we are really stuck with these retards.:topsy_turvy:

HewisLamilton6
31-05-2015, 20:41
contact penalties and invisible wrong way driving is a must WMD!!!!!

the game is totally unplayable currently!!!


Here Here!! Its rubbing me up the wrong way, i have been waiting a long time to play but is now been ruined by muppets

HewisLamilton6
31-05-2015, 20:43
this is controlled in iracing, by allowing reports and replays to show what happened, i wish these lads would just go play cod, if you cant race then dont bother, its kids who have no idea what respects means, or understand any kind of good values, totally dont understand there is a racing code and something called sportsmanship. i blame schools and parents spoiling there kids, kids need a good hard slipper now and then, without it there just wild and out of control and very stupid. i understand how annoying it is ive had it happen so many times if they could just respect the game and others who play it, but am afraid thats simply expecting far too much, there should be bans put in place, it really spoils a game so much. reports with replays is the best way. it has to be done right because otherwise you get idiots getting people BANNED NOT FOR BUMPING THEM BUT BECAUSE THEY DIDNT WIN AND HATE LOSING. because they suck. so they decide they will tell lies and abuse the service, like they abuse the game, hopefully one day they will be able to spot in your dna the idiot genes and eradicate them for good, but for now we are really stuck with these retards.:topsy_turvy:

I have never played i racing but i heard that there is little or no muppets like we have on P Cars

wraithsrike
31-05-2015, 20:53
Both SP & MP need far greater penalties introduced, I lost it big time in a career race got the hump and just ploughed straight back on track causing a mass pile up I just drove off, now I should of be disqualified but I got nothing, Ive seen AI hold up faster cars on qualifications but it just goes un noticed, wrong way driving online and nothing.

I do strongly agree the flag/penalty system needs seriously looking into.

Daynja
31-05-2015, 21:11
Both SP & MP need far greater penalties introduced, I lost it big time in a career race got the hump and just ploughed straight back on track causing a mass pile up I just drove off, now I should of be disqualified but I got nothing, Ive seen AI hold up faster cars on qualifications but it just goes un noticed, wrong way driving online and nothing.

I do strongly agree the flag/penalty system needs seriously looking into.

And quickly too. Nothing will kill the life span of this game more when penalties dont work and a holes run free on track or the AI ruin your experience.

F2kSel
31-05-2015, 21:19
Have you guys had AI pass right through you in single player? I have.

Yes I've had it a couple of times

wraithsrike
31-05-2015, 21:25
Yes I thought it was being driven by Patrick swayze

madmax2069
31-05-2015, 21:25
Have you guys had AI pass right through you in single player? I have.

Yes, and it also happens with players online when coming out of the pits.

But what does that have to do with this topic ?

Psychomatrix
31-05-2015, 21:30
I think iracing had a good system. You see on iracing even on open races a lot of fair racing. it will take some weeks and the kids gone to the next game. After a short time the most loses interest because the can't handle the game. But even a lot of people who new to online racing make mistakes so you have to live with it. If you want take it serious the only way is to drive with friends or in a league.

MiZtErNiCe
31-05-2015, 23:00
whats the deal with naming and shaming on here with video evidence, im gathering a lot of footage and going to make a lil montage of all the culprits i encounter.

madmax2069
31-05-2015, 23:08
whats the deal with naming and shaming on here with video evidence, im gathering a lot of footage and going to make a lil montage of all the culprits i encounter.

Every offical forums I've been on dont take kindly to naming and shaming.

Ramshackle
01-06-2015, 00:22
I'd love to see a non contact option. I don't care what any of the purists say about it not being realistic. It's also not realistic to slam into the back of a car at 100 mph and carry on like nothing happened. Besides, in my past experience with racing games that feature non contact, that's where you find a lot of the hardcore racers bacause it's just down to raw speed and consistancy. No excuses.

Another good thing about being able to switch to non contact is that it tends to flush the idiots out of a lobby. They're not interested if they can't play destruction derby.

I can't believe how many people online are such bad sports... and what lengths they'll go to to be a bad sport. It's something that needs addressing.

Kulch
01-06-2015, 00:41
is there a way you can code people with over 1minute splits to ghost them out, the same way the AI ghosts out when entering the pitts?

im pretty sure ive played games in the past where people 1 lap down were ghosted out.

LordDRIFT
01-06-2015, 00:42
I don't get the logic of folks that come here to complain about how other people drive online and demanding that something be done about it. Do other games ban folks that are guilty of this? I'm curious to know.

Kulch
01-06-2015, 00:43
pretty sure Project cars was promoting an online reputational feature, yet only we can see our own online stats on xbox anyway. so whats the point?

mscottveach
01-06-2015, 01:19
Some people have alluded to this already but it's important to remember that people who are new to sims don't fully understand what's considered unsportsmanlike behavior. I had never played a non-arcade racer before in my life. And I know nothing about real life racing. For all I knew, contact with other cars was the way you're supposed to play. Even if it wasn't the way it's done in real life, I could imagine that at tournament level play, it's all about who hits who when and how. Turns out it isn't that way but my point is that I had no real way of knowing until I got some experience. What seems painfully obvious to someone with experience can be surprisingly unclear to someone who is new.

JDFSSS
01-06-2015, 01:44
I don't get the logic of folks that come here to complain about how other people drive online and demanding that something be done about it. Do other games ban folks that are guilty of this? I'm curious to know.

Because open lobbies will never be worth playing without some sort of structure to keep the arcade kids/crashers in check. Believe it or not, there are ways to promote clean racing. Watch some videos of iracing races. For the most part, you will see clean racing. Definitely a lot better than what you will see on pCARS.

cerbrus2
01-06-2015, 01:59
Some people have alluded to this already but it's important to remember that people who are new to sims don't fully understand what's considered unsportsmanlike behavior. I had never played a non-arcade racer before in my life. And I know nothing about real life racing. For all I knew, contact with other cars was the way you're supposed to play. Even if it wasn't the way it's done in real life, I could imagine that at tournament level play, it's all about who hits who when and how. Turns out it isn't that way but my point is that I had no real way of knowing until I got some experience. What seems painfully obvious to someone with experience can be surprisingly unclear to someone who is new.

unless they have spent there entire life watching days of Thunder I'm Sure most people know what is to be expected in a race. For instance most people know that you shouldn't use another car as a speed brake/mobile barrier to get them round a corner. so I don't except that at all, it's like a someone passing their driving liscensing and telling the judge that the reason they crashed into the car in front was because they didn't know they shouldn't due to lack of experience.
I except that some newbies might lack a few racing manners for example if I accidentally clip someone I will always throttle off and let them back past as it was my fault, as do most of the people I race with. But point blank ramming etc is not excusable due to lack of experience.

Motorhead Racer
01-06-2015, 05:43
My two cents...

Banning should ONLY be used in extreme cases, sometimes people do not mean to bump you off, its very easy to assume someone didnt brake at all, and instead just miscalculalted your braking point!
Those going the wrong way there is no excuse for, as is same for those parking across the track, or trying to take you out when you lap them.
I think the biggest issue I have found is when someone is faster they do not have the patients to actually fight for the position, they just want pass and will do anything to get pass, I am entitled to defend the position, and I will do all I can whilst keeping it clean to keep you behind me, it is up to you to get pass.
The other issue I find is people having a lack of spatial awareness, and not realising that you are along side going for the overtake, which is why I usually prefer night races, as your lights give it away...

Having collisions off is a BIG game killer for me, what is the point of racing? it just becomes more like a time trial held over several laps, that is not racing and will not help the situation, as then nobody really learns how to overtake and defend...

Another issue, is that people want to go their speed, and not reacting to what is going on around them, just because you do get a good start, doesnt always mean you will find a way to take advantage of that.. That guy in front who just braked on a straight, use your brain, maybe he braked to avoid something, so you need to brake or GO round if safe to do so.

Online is NOT ruined, I have had many good races, and I am a controller user, I can race wheel to wheel very well, and I hope some ofyou will be racing with me, and I get a chance to show you this!
My biggest fear? Everyone goes into private lobbies, and I am left without anyone decent to race with... I believe I am far too casual to be part of any league, and working shift pattern means I am ot available set days of the week or the same time every week or whatever

Ramshackle
01-06-2015, 07:19
My two cents...

Having collisions off is a BIG game killer for me, what is the point of racing? it just becomes more like a time trial held over several laps, that is not racing and will not help the situation, as then nobody really learns how to overtake and defend...



People want it as an option when setting up lobbies. Not as a general rule.

HewisLamilton6
01-06-2015, 10:59
Some people may have got the wrong end of the stick, this post is not about people who are slower than other drivers. This post is about deliberate ramming, side swiping, and waiting for the leader of a race to come around so then can ruin there race. It needs to be stopped some way.

cerbrus2
01-06-2015, 11:03
GT Prologue and GT5 had a great way of dealing with rammers, all be it some times the damage was already done, but it would ghost there car if they hit other cars, or stopped on track and of course drove round is backwards.

Andy Apex
01-06-2015, 11:32
Just finished a 10 lap race, in 1st place and leading by 10 seconds!!

Come around to lap back markers, see a white flag, slow car ahead.

Then i get rammed as i try to pass, manage to keep it under control.

Then next car same thing slows down in-front of me and tries to side swipe me.

How can these players not get banned, we need some control of online races before they ruin it for everyone!!

I Play on PS4 and this happens a lot. How can this be controlled!!!

The game is being ruined by folks such as yourself that come crying to the forums with post like this and Titles such as yours.
For 20 years, open Multiplayer racing has always been ruined by the ones that can't drive and want to take it out on those that can....it's some kind of mental issue.
The only way to enjoy online racing is to find and make friends and start your own private or find a league to join.

Sorry That's just the way it is", somethings will never change" and that's the way it will always be.

I've raced since the very must Multiplayer racing was started by Papyrus with a server called "Hawaii" We're talking Wright Brothers kind of stuff here.

Yes I'm old. But old is wise, and I promise you, you may find a real gem in one out of 20 races in open Multiplayer, but if you really want to race online, start or find a leauge to race in. Trust me on this ! Here a song you can do all your crying to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeKidp-iWo

It's just the facts and I'm just the messenger, please don't shoot me.

HewisLamilton6
01-06-2015, 12:25
The game is being ruined by folks such as yourself that come crying to the forums with post like this and Titles such as yours.
For 20 years, open Multiplayer racing has always been ruined by the ones that can't drive and want to take it out on those that can....it's some kind of mental issue.
The only way to enjoy online racing is to find and make friends and start your own private or find a league to join.

Sorry That's just the way it is", somethings will never change" and that's the way it will always be.

I've raced since the very must Multiplayer racing was started by Papyrus with a server called "Hawaii" We're talking Wright Brothers kind of stuff here.

Yes I'm old. But old is wise, and I promise you, you may find a real gem in one out of 20 races in open Multiplayer, but if you really want to race online, start or find a leauge to race in. Trust me on this ! Here a song you can do all your crying to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeKidp-iWo

It's just the facts and I'm just the messenger, please don't shoot me.

What you on about!!! You have not seen the whole conversation!! I am a member of a league and race regular.

And 20 years of multi player racing (LOL) GT5 had it so the lapped car was ghosted. So how is that not "the way it is"

I am not coming on here crying, just highlighting the fact there are muppets in the world and how can they be dealt with in an effect manor!!

By the sounds of it, your probably a rammer!!

Andy Apex
01-06-2015, 12:49
What you on about!!! You have not seen the whole conversation!! I am a member of a league and race regular.

And 20 years of multi player racing (LOL) GT5 had it so the lapped car was ghosted. So how is that not "the way it is"

I am not coming on here crying, just highlighting the fact there are muppets in the world and how can they be dealt with in an effect manor!!

By the sounds of it, your probably a rammer!!

Name me one product other than iRacing that has tried to control the Bobby Bashers in anyway ?
Papyrus started the ranking of drivers with LPI (Laps per incident)
You go ahead an make it your life goal to control open multiplayer racing. Go luck with that Big Boy !

HewisLamilton6
01-06-2015, 13:02
Name me one product other than iRacing that has tried to control the Bobby Bashers in anyway ?
Papyrus started the ranking of drivers with LPI (Laps per incident)
You go ahead an make it your life goal to control open multiplayer racing. Go luck with that Big Boy !

Who said it was anyones life mission? Projectcarsforum is what we are on, ill spell it for you incase you don't understand "forum" = "a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged"

I rest my case!!!

It is the definition of "forum" it is not reading "life long goal to control multiplayer" LOL

HBR-Roadhog
01-06-2015, 14:03
What you on about!!! You have not seen the whole conversation!! I am a member of a league and race regular.

And 20 years of multi player racing (LOL) GT5 had it so the lapped car was ghosted. So how is that not "the way it is"

I am not coming on here crying, just highlighting the fact there are muppets in the world and how can they be dealt with in an effect manor!!

By the sounds of it, your probably a rammer!!

Really? 20 years? Were you using a LAN because even 15 years ago multiplayer racing online was pretty much a joke with most people having a connection speed of around 24k 5 years before that most people were not even online and those that were would be likely to have only a 2400bps connection.

I personally did a bit of multiplayer over my LAN with a few friends and even tried over the modem at 24k but that was pretty limited due to low bandwidth.

HewisLamilton6
01-06-2015, 14:55
Really? 20 years? Were you using a LAN because even 15 years ago multiplayer racing online was pretty much a joke with most people having a connection speed of around 24k 5 years before that most people were not even online and those that were would be likely to have only a 2400bps connection.

I personally did a bit of multiplayer over my LAN with a few friends and even tried over the modem at 24k but that was pretty limited due to low bandwidth.

:)

maybe the 0 was a mistake on the 20 LOL

LordDRIFT
01-06-2015, 15:10
Here are some online and network multiplayer racing games from the mid 90s

POD: Planet of Death
Micro Machines 2: Turbo Tournament
Moto Racer
Need for Speed III: Hot Pursuit
POD: Planet of Death
Road Rash
Rollcage
Ultim@te Race Pro

HewisLamilton6
01-06-2015, 16:26
Here are some online and network multiplayer racing games from the mid 90s

POD: Planet of Death
Micro Machines 2: Turbo Tournament
Moto Racer
Need for Speed III: Hot Pursuit
POD: Planet of Death
Road Rash
Rollcage
Ultim@te Race Pro

I get your reply but again a million miles off topic! I dont care about how many years there has been online gaming. Its about muppets who purposely go out to ruin peoples races.

its not banger racing!!

LordDRIFT
01-06-2015, 16:27
I get your reply but again a million miles off topic! !

So was the remark that prompted it.

LordDRIFT
01-06-2015, 16:29
Does this game not allow private rooms? Can the Host not folks from the lobby?

Ramshackle
01-06-2015, 16:47
The game is being ruined by folks such as yourself that come crying to the forums with post like this and Titles such as yours.


Not quite sure how posts on a forum ruin the game :confused:

I've been racing online since Motorstorm on the PS3. Raced in many leagues, from the aforementioned to Gran Turismo. I can honestly say I've never played a game that can be so infuriating when it comes to rammers and bad sports. The reason being is that there's no deterent whatsoever for people who chose to "race" that way. We shouldn't have to spend months building up a network of fair players to have an enjoyable race in multiplayer. It makes no sense to me that people can get away with driving the wrong way around track lap after lap in a racing sim... or that people can just ram you at 100mph and cause the innocent player to shoot off track and incur a penalty for "cutting a corner" while the rammer simply cruises past. Or that you end up stuck behind 3 cars driving side by side blocking the track because they all cut a corner... which usually causes a whole other bunch of other crashes. The first chicane at Monza is a prime example of this.

Disqualify any player driving the wrong way around track for more than 10 seconds. Ghost cars that are under time penalty and penalise players for big rear end shunts, and half of the multiplayer problems are solved.

HewisLamilton6
01-06-2015, 18:07
Not quite sure how posts on a forum ruin the game :confused:

I've been racing online since Motorstorm on the PS3. Raced in many leagues, from the aforementioned to Gran Turismo. I can honestly say I've never played a game that can be so infuriating when it comes to rammers and bad sports. The reason being is that there's no deterent whatsoever for people who chose to "race" that way. We shouldn't have to spend months building up a network of fair players to have an enjoyable race in multiplayer. It makes no sense to me that people can get away with driving the wrong way around track lap after lap in a racing sim... or that people can just ram you at 100mph and cause the innocent player to shoot off track and incur a penalty for "cutting a corner" while the rammer simply cruises past. Or that you end up stuck behind 3 cars driving side by side blocking the track because they all cut a corner... which usually causes a whole other bunch of other crashes. The first chicane at Monza is a prime example of this.

Disqualify any player driving the wrong way around track for more than 10 seconds. Ghost cars that are under time penalty and penalise players for big rear end shunts, and half of the multiplayer problems are solved.

Spot on!! Someone with sense!! These rammers need to be stopped!!

GT_Racing
01-06-2015, 18:19
Does this game not allow private rooms? Can the Host not folks from the lobby?

No the host cant kick people. Which is one thing that I really want added. It can only be done by vote and half the lobby has to vote to kick someone out. It either needs to be less people or the Host only needs 1 or 2 votes including his/hers. Nobody votes to kick someone that takes out the guy that was infront of them. I have tried messaging everyone in a lobby and they just ignore it.

apexatspeed
01-06-2015, 18:20
Does this game not allow private rooms? Can the Host not folks from the lobby?

It does allow private rooms.

HewisLamilton6
01-06-2015, 19:41
No the host cant kick people. Which is one thing that I really want added. It can only be done by vote and half the lobby has to vote to kick someone out. It either needs to be less people or the Host only needs 1 or 2 votes including his/hers. Nobody votes to kick someone that takes out the guy that was infront of them. I have tried messaging everyone in a lobby and they just ignore it.

The host must have full control, no one will vote to kick someone out!! EG 2nd place gets rammed by 3rd place, 7th place and the rest didn't even see it happen.

Hopefully soon the host will have the control, this may help weed out the rammers!!!

HBR-Roadhog
01-06-2015, 19:50
Yeah the host definitely needs to be able to remove anyone as they see fit.

Of course once that is added some folks will abuse it. I have been kicked for being to fast on more than one occasion or even before the race as they had looked at my stats and just assumed I would be to fast even though I would have likely struggled in that car on that track. Still i think the host should be able to kick anyone as they see fit.

LordDRIFT
01-06-2015, 20:33
Yep host needs to have boot duties.

Jens Schmitt
01-06-2015, 20:41
Sometimes i hard some people try to crash into you. Because they breake very late or better use you car to breake with. Ok sometimes the start is the worst thing. Some players did not press the break an rammed into others before the lights are green. Especially at Spa. So i hope some did train to getbetter drivers. I by myself was not the fastest but i try to drive clan and fair. Most online races i must leave because of crash thats not nice but what should i do. So in the future i hope to get how should i say cleaner races:p

LordDRIFT
01-06-2015, 21:00
When I used to play gt online - when playing with a serious group if you took someone out you would pull over and let them pass as a show of good faith. Otherwise you would be getting booth. Its self policing.

girlracerTracey
01-06-2015, 23:39
Been there. Seen it. Got the T-Shirt.

Whatever the purists might say the only way of solving the problem of rammers and idiots online is to have a COLLISIONS OFF option that may be activated at the end of each race for the next race etc., if need be, by the lobby host.

Nothing else works.

The only other alternative is to race in private lobbies or league races with like minded players.

We have a collisions off option in motogp and the idiots soon get bored and leave the lobby. For me this is all about developers understanding the problems we face racing online in the midst of "casual" gamers & giving us something to combat the situation "on the spot" as it were.

Really also you need a "lobby kick" that can be made by the host at will with no voting required. Although sometimes be warned you might get kicked for being too fast..I've seen that happen a lot as well and have suffered this fate myself together with others in motogp lobbies. Normally only happens in "newbie" lobbies though frequented by casual gamers.

grT

mire2
01-06-2015, 23:47
But sometimes a mandont watched out for a second or lost his concentration and to bann someone for that is not pleasent.....No one of you can tell that he makes no mistakes.....There must be another way....Privat lobbys sounds good

girlracerTracey
02-06-2015, 00:14
But sometimes a mandont watched out for a second or lost his concentration and to bann someone for that is not pleasent.....No one of you can tell that he makes no mistakes.....There must be another way....Privat lobbys sounds good

Everyone makes mistakes. I think we are only talking about the worst type of "repeat" offender here.

We have all been in crazy lobbies though where ppl just show no consideration whatsoever for others. Where ppl would rather ram someone else off the track to win or gain position. :hopelessness:

Solution: COLLISIONS OFF button or a "kick" from the host. Works like a charm. Every time. Problem solved.

grT :angel:

Mancunain
02-06-2015, 02:04
Education is what's needed. The transition from simpler games like Grid Autopsport to pcars brings over various types of players good & bad. Codemasters tried to help players understand some of the basics of F1 with the pre season videos, but didnt go far enough to educate with race etiquette. A more diverse penalty system in Pcars is also needed,and some race engineer voice over work to match. There needs to be contact detection similar to Shift or F1 where the game knows you made contact.

In shift it decided that contact wether it was "paint trading" or full on ramming went towards your aggression level , a reward system with absolutely reasonable use in a racing game other than to promote bad driving i must add. None the less it was still a detection of poor driving which could be implemented in better ways for pcars.

F1 by codemasters detects contact and punishes you accordingly as F1(fia) forbids contact in that series. If players continue to collide and be bad player the game removes them with a black flag

pcars can do this too.It could also bolster (train) race etiquette by adding engineer voice prompts to alert the player that they face a time penalty for continual contact (like it does with corner cutting currently) or warn the player that they will be black flagged for collisions. Then if the bad player still decides to be an arse they get flagged.
Newer players that have never been taught properly can learn and adapt

I would really like to see a similar system iRacing used off track & on for keeping drivers in check (it promotes very good skill improvement and separates the ruthless & malicious away from the clean drivers)

agreed, but cant we think of something that 'other games' dont have ? as tbh, no other game has ever truly sorted it out..

i think there is a black/white flag before the black one.. u get 1 warning.. tied in with your suggestion of engineers voice telling you.. it might help a few out, but idiots will be idiots.. i think its how they get their kicks, where as our kicks in game comes from good racing as there is no denying when u are in a good race, no matter of position in group.. theres not many other types of games that can make you feel that way for that amount of time.. it can be pretty intense at times, its epic ....unless ofc u spin off xD

so - maybe a messgae on screen before race or on entry to lobby.. Ramming is not tolerated and will be punished..
1 warning, flag & vocal.. maybe a quick message on screen in the lobby telling everyone that that man in car number whatever is on a warning..
but like most other games.. to code in crash estimates must be a hell of a job... and you just know.. one day you;ll get caught out somehow and suffer the flag thro no fault of your own.. could even get kicked(black flagged) if you make a mistake after that.. which would be so unfortunate :/ ive had penalties when ive been rammed, ive been on racing line, my own clear line.. and side swiped, yet i got penalty cos of someones dodgy braking trying to squeeze thro when there was just no gap there in the 1st place :/
to erase all those situations would be hard work.. and with your profile recording stuff like that, it can end up bad for some innocent ppl who are learning.. it really is a difficult issue..
We also have blind spots in this game.. ive caught someone i thought had quit to pits, knew he was close, then he wasnt, checked rearview, both side views, fullscreen rearveiw and there was no car.. so i edged over and heard a bang.. shocked me tbh, but made me giggle cos basic driver error and blind spots, but we cant look over our shouders in the game xD the driver took it well after i;d explained..
and i didnt just quick look, i double checked all mirrors.. and then presumed he'd quit to pits..
Accidents happen.. and im half decent driver.. with many years experience in r/l, so the problem can never be fully eradicated..

several things besides ramming also up for debate...
Cars on start grid, dont start.. cause huge pile-up on grid, piss everyone off.. then just sit there for most of race in middle of track :/ Really ?
i doubt all 5 had the occasional controller reset and had no pedals (or button for throttle :p)

Not only those on start grid.. but when ppl crash or spin off during the race, then they sit there all skew-wiff at funny angles sticking out onto track right after the bend that they'd just spun off on.. recipe for disaster if more than 1 car takes previous bend together.. and ive caught several that had made me spin off :/
Do we kick/ban them, ? or just move the cars away quick with crane or something ? i wont make excuses for them.. so if they cant move, or even be bothered to type in chat whats gone on.. then ye, get rid.. lobby ban for 30mins.. all online lobbies...
Do these ppl even have chat on during race ?
chat is another issue at the min :) the chat box (4 lines deep on screen when racing) seems to scroll about on its own.. its rarely at last msg typed... and is quite annying/distracting when driving under pressure when the chat box suddenly starts scrolling random up or down, pretty much constant when it happens.. so these idiots prob dont even see chat at all sometimes..

Lag can also come into l;ay remember too .. youve all seen cars in front of you on track suddenly drive at funny angles or start darting about track randomly.. imagine that same thing just behind you on your rear qtr.. its gonna hit u.. will the 'new detection system' (if one comes to the game) be able top judge that properly.. i doubt it..

The physics after being 'nudged', never mind rammed is a little harsh i feel.. puts you 30ft on grass, sideways, into a wall, then stupid sign u cant knock over, so you have to reverse, then its so hard to get going on grass.. its more like ice than grass.. and is not right..
I understand the need for a disabling system while off track.. but it does feel like treacle, then ice, then you facing another direction even tho you held that wheel so straight..

Many, many things with penalty systems, not just rams

Mancunain
02-06-2015, 02:08
Everyone makes mistakes. I think we are only talking about the worst type of "repeat" offender here.

We have all been in crazy lobbies though where ppl just show no consideration whatsoever for others. Where ppl would rather ram someone else off the track to win or gain position. :hopelessness:

Solution: COLLISIONS OFF button or a "kick" from the host. Works like a charm. Every time. Problem solved.

grT :angel:

until people start making it up.. or the offender turns victim all of a sudden.. (like the snake they are)

a replay system maybe ? a 15sec clip of any contact that the game could save somewhere.. temporary cloud maybe for 12 hrs ?
Only the host can watch and judge himself.. but then you just know some races will be 30min break while he sifts thro 6 vids of complaints..
or the rammers will become hosts xD
it really is never ending

girlracerTracey
02-06-2015, 07:09
until people start making it up.. or the offender turns victim all of a sudden.. (like the snake they are)

a replay system maybe ? a 15sec clip of any contact that the game could save somewhere.. temporary cloud maybe for 12 hrs ?
Only the host can watch and judge himself.. but then you just know some races will be 30min break while he sifts thro 6 vids of complaints..
or the rammers will become hosts xD
it really is never ending

Yeah stewards' inquiries take time! You can only do stewards' inquiries in organised league racing. Even then it is a troublesome process..watching replay angles and trying to officiate over a verdict.

We are not talking about league races here! We are not talking about private lobby racing here either! We are talking about what goes on in "open" public lobbies. You don't have time to watch replays or to reach a verdict on a particular incident. You're racing!!!!

What is wrong pray tell with a COLLISIONS OFF MODE that can be implemented when necessary? (on a messy night with loads of "rammers" and wallies around!)

What is wrong with a host controlled kick button?

I am afraid to say having raced for years online both in competitive leagues (which I happen to organise), private lobbies and more entertainingly whilst taking my chances most nights in "happy go lucky" public online lobbies those are the only two options that are tried, "tested" and proven to work!

This is not rocket science guys this is just plain common sense.

grT :)

P.S. if the rammers become "hosts" then the simple answer is that you just don't join their lobbies! Let them stew in their own stupidity..:angel:
P.P.S. this is one of the many reasons why this game desperately needs an online lobby browser on xbox one!

HewisLamilton6
02-06-2015, 11:24
agreed, but cant we think of something that 'other games' dont have ? as tbh, no other game has ever truly sorted it out..

i think there is a black/white flag before the black one.. u get 1 warning.. tied in with your suggestion of engineers voice telling you.. it might help a few out, but idiots will be idiots.. i think its how they get their kicks, where as our kicks in game comes from good racing as there is no denying when u are in a good race, no matter of position in group.. theres not many other types of games that can make you feel that way for that amount of time.. it can be pretty intense at times, its epic ....unless ofc u spin off xD

so - maybe a messgae on screen before race or on entry to lobby.. Ramming is not tolerated and will be punished..
1 warning, flag & vocal.. maybe a quick message on screen in the lobby telling everyone that that man in car number whatever is on a warning..
but like most other games.. to code in crash estimates must be a hell of a job... and you just know.. one day you;ll get caught out somehow and suffer the flag thro no fault of your own.. could even get kicked(black flagged) if you make a mistake after that.. which would be so unfortunate :/ ive had penalties when ive been rammed, ive been on racing line, my own clear line.. and side swiped, yet i got penalty cos of someones dodgy braking trying to squeeze thro when there was just no gap there in the 1st place :/
to erase all those situations would be hard work.. and with your profile recording stuff like that, it can end up bad for some innocent ppl who are learning.. it really is a difficult issue..
We also have blind spots in this game.. ive caught someone i thought had quit to pits, knew he was close, then he wasnt, checked rearview, both side views, fullscreen rearveiw and there was no car.. so i edged over and heard a bang.. shocked me tbh, but made me giggle cos basic driver error and blind spots, but we cant look over our shouders in the game xD the driver took it well after i;d explained..
and i didnt just quick look, i double checked all mirrors.. and then presumed he'd quit to pits..
Accidents happen.. and im half decent driver.. with many years experience in r/l, so the problem can never be fully eradicated..

several things besides ramming also up for debate...
Cars on start grid, dont start.. cause huge pile-up on grid, piss everyone off.. then just sit there for most of race in middle of track :/ Really ?
i doubt all 5 had the occasional controller reset and had no pedals (or button for throttle :p)

Not only those on start grid.. but when ppl crash or spin off during the race, then they sit there all skew-wiff at funny angles sticking out onto track right after the bend that they'd just spun off on.. recipe for disaster if more than 1 car takes previous bend together.. and ive caught several that had made me spin off :/
Do we kick/ban them, ? or just move the cars away quick with crane or something ? i wont make excuses for them.. so if they cant move, or even be bothered to type in chat whats gone on.. then ye, get rid.. lobby ban for 30mins.. all online lobbies...
Do these ppl even have chat on during race ?
chat is another issue at the min :) the chat box (4 lines deep on screen when racing) seems to scroll about on its own.. its rarely at last msg typed... and is quite annying/distracting when driving under pressure when the chat box suddenly starts scrolling random up or down, pretty much constant when it happens.. so these idiots prob dont even see chat at all sometimes..

Lag can also come into l;ay remember too .. youve all seen cars in front of you on track suddenly drive at funny angles or start darting about track randomly.. imagine that same thing just behind you on your rear qtr.. its gonna hit u.. will the 'new detection system' (if one comes to the game) be able top judge that properly.. i doubt it..

The physics after being 'nudged', never mind rammed is a little harsh i feel.. puts you 30ft on grass, sideways, into a wall, then stupid sign u cant knock over, so you have to reverse, then its so hard to get going on grass.. its more like ice than grass.. and is not right..
I understand the need for a disabling system while off track.. but it does feel like treacle, then ice, then you facing another direction even tho you held that wheel so straight..

Many, many things with penalty systems, not just rams

Good points!!! I agree with the penalty system like real life, black and white 1st warning and black your gone. This could be easily coded into the game. One car breaking from 100mph to 70mph and the 2nd car using 1st car as it breaks is surly easily to figure out who is in the wrong. GT5 & 6 had a similar system, it was not great but worked to the point people avoided contact!!

JDFSSS
02-06-2015, 14:50
Yeah stewards' inquiries take time! You can only do stewards' inquiries in organised league racing. Even then it is a troublesome process..watching replay angles and trying to officiate over a verdict.

We are not talking about league races here! We are not talking about private lobby racing here either! We are talking about what goes on in "open" public lobbies. You don't have time to watch replays or to reach a verdict on a particular incident. You're racing!!!!

What is wrong pray tell with a COLLISIONS OFF MODE that can be implemented when necessary? (on a messy night with loads of "rammers" and wallies around!)

What is wrong with a host controlled kick button?

I am afraid to say having raced for years online both in competitive leagues (which I happen to organise), private lobbies and more entertainingly whilst taking my chances most nights in "happy go lucky" public online lobbies those are the only two options that are tried, "tested" and proven to work!

This is not rocket science guys this is just plain common sense.

grT :)

P.S. if the rammers become "hosts" then the simple answer is that you just don't join their lobbies! Let them stew in their own stupidity..:angel:
P.P.S. this is one of the many reasons why this game desperately needs an online lobby browser on xbox one!

The problems are pretty clear, I think. If you are racing with collisions off, you are essentially not even racing. You are just doing time trial laps while other ghost cars are on the track. Making clean passes and managing risk/reward is a huge part of racing, possibly the most important part of racing. Without this component, it's not even worth racing for me.

Obviously there are many problems with a host controlled kick button. Mainly related to abuse, incompetence or just not seeing everything that goes on.

These are not the only 2 solutions to get clean racing. For example, SMS could implement a cool down feature that locks you out of the online mode if you've been involved in a certain amount of collisions over a certain period of time. More sensitive damage models will promote clean racing. Safety ratings will promote clean racing. Driver performance ratings will promote clean racing. Harsher penalties will promote clean racing. I could list plenty of other ideas to promote clean racing. It just comes down to how important this issue is for SMS.

HBR-Roadhog
02-06-2015, 15:43
The problems are pretty clear, I think. If you are racing with collisions off, you are essentially not even racing. You are just doing time trial laps while other ghost cars are on the track. Making clean passes and managing risk/reward is a huge part of racing, possibly the most important part of racing. Without this component, it's not even worth racing for me. So then you don't set collisions off and don;t race where they are off. That does not mean that the option should not be there. I personally can't race in cockpit view for more than a few laps without getting sick but I am not saying that there should not be a cockpit view or even the option to force it to be so. So long as I have an option to race the way I want there is no issue.

Yes racing without collisions is a lot like hot lapping but it is still different and is still racing. Hot lapping requires one good lap. Racing with collisions off requires consistency 1 good lap will not get it done unless you are setup for a time trial mode which is another thing I think they should add. Yes without collisions you can not block the car behind you and you can not slipstream off the car in front of you it is all down to driving to the best of your ability. You can drive on any line without fear of being hit or hitting someone else and with a good group of racers it can be pretty intense. The other cars can also cause you some issues or at least they do in Forza as they obstruct your vision when you are close to them or inside of them. On PCars the ghosts are pretty much invisible when they are just in front of you so there is no obstruction of vision there as is. I still haven't decided if this is good or bad. I can tell you though that on Forza 2 some of the best races I have had were with collisions off. I have been in races were there were three of is driving inside each other as we crossed the finish line on the last lap with time separations in the 0.0xx range. Being that you can not block the car behind you it also may push you to drive harder into the corners in order to keep your lead and possibly to hard. Then you are out on Nurburgring on lap 3 of 3 running neck and neck with the fastest player for the lead when here comes a car going the wrong way and headed straight at you going 200mph. He drives right through you gets mad and leaves. Even that can cause a crash as it is such a rush to see something like that coming at you but nothing like it would be if he could have made contact.

Bottom line is that should be an option for online racing and many of us would welcome it for sure.



Obviously there are many problems with a host controlled kick button. Mainly related to abuse, incompetence or just not seeing everything that goes on. Yes there will be abuse of it no doubt. Still needs to be there. The pros out weight the cons. I ran a lobby almost every night on Forza 2 for about 6 months. I would kick players for 4 different reasons without a doubt. Driving wrong way, Parking in racing line, intentionally ramming people, and sometimes for conduct over the voice chat mainly for being loud, obnoxious and/or abusive. Some would kick because of your nationality, your race, your skill, or whatever but if they are hosting the lobby that is their choice as it should be.

We need this option.


These are not the only 2 solutions to get clean racing. For example, SMS could implement a cool down feature that locks you out of the online mode if you've been involved in a certain amount of collisions over a certain period of time. More sensitive damage models will promote clean racing. Safety ratings will promote clean racing. Driver performance ratings will promote clean racing. Harsher penalties will promote clean racing. I could list plenty of other ideas to promote clean racing. It just comes down to how important this issue is for SMS. Yes they are not the only solutions but they are solutions and should be reasonably easy to implement. The other things you mention would also help but still does not mean we should not have the options for collisions off and host ability to kick at will.

I personally like running with full damage but would not do it in a public lobby unless I could turn off collisions to keep the wreckers and the laggers from destroying my race.

Even with rules and penalties there are still issues even with clean racers. For example I drive hood/bonnet view and there are no side view mirrors available making it very hard to know when a car is beside me and there is always the possibility that I will cut someone off or move over into someone and cause a crash. I try hard not to do this and as a result I am usually slower when other cars are around. The addition of optional side view mirrors as part of the basic hud for all views would go a long way toward helping this. Cockpit view is not an option as I get a bit sick after a short while in cockpit view and in order to see the mirrors you have to slide the FOV back so far it feels like driving from the back seat which to me is far less realistic than hood view and increases the nausea factor when driving. The look right/left/up/down options are nice to have but when racing I find those to be unnatural and a hindrance to driving. optional side view mirrors that could be positioned on screen would be much better.

JDFSSS
02-06-2015, 17:04
So then you don't set collisions off and don;t race where they are off. That does not mean that the option should not be there. I personally can't race in cockpit view for more than a few laps without getting sick but I am not saying that there should not be a cockpit view or even the option to force it to be so. So long as I have an option to race the way I want there is no issue.

Yes racing without collisions is a lot like hot lapping but it is still different and is still racing. Hot lapping requires one good lap. Racing with collisions off requires consistency 1 good lap will not get it done unless you are setup for a time trial mode which is another thing I think they should add. Yes without collisions you can not block the car behind you and you can not slipstream off the car in front of you it is all down to driving to the best of your ability. You can drive on any line without fear of being hit or hitting someone else and with a good group of racers it can be pretty intense. The other cars can also cause you some issues or at least they do in Forza as they obstruct your vision when you are close to them or inside of them. On PCars the ghosts are pretty much invisible when they are just in front of you so there is no obstruction of vision there as is. I still haven't decided if this is good or bad. I can tell you though that on Forza 2 some of the best races I have had were with collisions off. I have been in races were there were three of is driving inside each other as we crossed the finish line on the last lap with time separations in the 0.0xx range. Being that you can not block the car behind you it also may push you to drive harder into the corners in order to keep your lead and possibly to hard. Then you are out on Nurburgring on lap 3 of 3 running neck and neck with the fastest player for the lead when here comes a car going the wrong way and headed straight at you going 200mph. He drives right through you gets mad and leaves. Even that can cause a crash as it is such a rush to see something like that coming at you but nothing like it would be if he could have made contact.

Bottom line is that should be an option for online racing and many of us would welcome it for sure.


Yes there will be abuse of it no doubt. Still needs to be there. The pros out weight the cons. I ran a lobby almost every night on Forza 2 for about 6 months. I would kick players for 4 different reasons without a doubt. Driving wrong way, Parking in racing line, intentionally ramming people, and sometimes for conduct over the voice chat mainly for being loud, obnoxious and/or abusive. Some would kick because of your nationality, your race, your skill, or whatever but if they are hosting the lobby that is their choice as it should be.

We need this option.

Yes they are not the only solutions but they are solutions and should be reasonably easy to implement. The other things you mention would also help but still does not mean we should not have the options for collisions off and host ability to kick at will.

I personally like running with full damage but would not do it in a public lobby unless I could turn off collisions to keep the wreckers and the laggers from destroying my race.

Even with rules and penalties there are still issues even with clean racers. For example I drive hood/bonnet view and there are no side view mirrors available making it very hard to know when a car is beside me and there is always the possibility that I will cut someone off or move over into someone and cause a crash. I try hard not to do this and as a result I am usually slower when other cars are around. The addition of optional side view mirrors as part of the basic hud for all views would go a long way toward helping this. Cockpit view is not an option as I get a bit sick after a short while in cockpit view and in order to see the mirrors you have to slide the FOV back so far it feels like driving from the back seat which to me is far less realistic than hood view and increases the nausea factor when driving. The look right/left/up/down options are nice to have but when racing I find those to be unnatural and a hindrance to driving. optional side view mirrors that could be positioned on screen would be much better.

Fair points. There's nothing wrong with adding an option to turn collisions on/off. The poster I quoted mentioned those 2 options (collisions/host kick ability) were the only two options that "are tried, 'tested' and proven to work!". I don't really consider them solutions to the problem at all, and just wanted to explain why and offer some other solutions.

You feel like host kick ability is something where the pros outweigh the cons, but I disagree. I'm just imagining a lot of host abuse and many races ruined until you jump around from lobby to lobby and find one with a less abusive host. Maybe it wouldn't be that bad, I don't know, but I feel like an automated system could work much better and there would be less abuse.

Sorry to hear you have trouble running in cockpit view. I also occasionally get caught off guard with cars that are side-by-side with me. I'm getting better at using the look left/look right function to use my side mirrors to be more aware of my surrounding though. As you mentioned this is not an option for some people, and I think having a spotter to let you know when a car is side-by-side would be a good solution.

Ramshackle
02-06-2015, 17:09
The problems are pretty clear, I think. If you are racing with collisions off, you are essentially not even racing. You are just doing time trial laps while other ghost cars are on the track. Making clean passes and managing risk/reward is a huge part of racing, possibly the most important part of racing. Without this component, it's not even worth racing for me.



I'm one who definitely supports a collisions off option. I do prefer contact on, but the lack of penalties for people who like to spoil races means that clean races are few and far between.... and a lot of people (including myself) are getting seriously fed up with it. I'm at the point now where I won't do races that have qualifying longer than 5 mins. I'm not wasting 20 minutes qualifying and getting on the front row, only to be shoved off track and have my whole race ruined at the very first corner. Like HBR-Roadhog mentioned, non contact races are just as competitive and intense. It's still a race to the finish line. If you don't like racing that way, simplylook for another lobby that offers what you're looking for.

Switching to non contact is also a great way of flushing bad sports and rammers out of a lobby. Before Pcars I had to satisfy my urge to race in GTA5 (hated Driveclub). Whenever I was hosting and other players were being idiots, I'd just switch to non contact for the next race (which I was perfectly happy with because hot lapping is one of my strong points). More often than not I'd win the race by a mile, then switch contact back on. Was amazing to see how that made a difference in the lobby. The idiots would either leave, or get the message loud and clear that I wanted clean racing.

I can only see huge benefits to multiplayer with a non contact option.

HBR-Roadhog
02-06-2015, 17:17
You feel like host kick ability is something where the pros outweigh the cons, but I disagree. I'm just imagining a lot of host abuse and many races ruined until you jump around from lobby to lobby and find one with a less abusive host. Maybe it wouldn't be that bad, I don't know, but I feel like an automated system could work much better and there would be less abuse. It really is not that bad and when this option was available it was never really an issue or not much of one anyway. I do not think I have ever been kick during a race it was always from the lobby. There are some people who just don't want some people in their lobbies. For example some would kick an American, some would kick a Frenchman others may kick a novice driver and still others may kick a very good driver. Most times this happens in the lobby before the race and like I said it should be up to the host who they want to allow to race in their lobby be it a good reason or not.

As far as I am concerned those who would abuse it are not the ones I want to race with anyway so they would be doing me a favor and of course it could be setup in such a way that it is only available in the lobby before/between races so as to not be able to kick someone during a race but it should be in the hosts control or at least that is my opinion on the matter.

It would also be good to have an option to blacklist a player when kicking them so that they can not rejoin your lobby at a later time.

On Forza I have kicked a player and had them rejoin right away and ask why I kicked them. In some cases after they knew why they were kicked they apologized and starting racing in an acceptable manner.

madmax2069
02-06-2015, 17:27
Id rather deal with hosts that abuse the kick button, then dealing with a room full of wreckers that are unable to be kicked due to no one voting to kick them.

Psychomatrix
02-06-2015, 17:36
kick button is against the idea of multi-player. Is unfair and arrogant to kick some because he's to fast, to slow or speak not the right language. That's the reason why I don't play in open lobbies.

GT_Racing
02-06-2015, 17:41
kick button is against the idea of multi-player. Is unfair and arrogant to kick some because he's to fast, to slow or speak not the right language. That's the reason why I don't play in open lobbies.

Well since you dont play in open lobbies I guess it wont bother you if they add it. They could also make it so the Host only needs 1 or 2 votes to kick someone instead of just being able to kick outright.

madmax2069
02-06-2015, 17:50
kick button is against the idea of multi-player. Is unfair and arrogant to kick some because he's to fast, to slow or speak not the right language. That's the reason why I don't play in open lobbies.

Kick button isnt against the ideal of multiplayer. Is it unfair and arrogant to kick because he is too fast or too slow or doesnt speak the right language ? Yes, but again the host should be able to decide for himself on what he wants to allow, regardless of what your feelings may be.

Let me ask you this
Is it fair for clean racers to have a bunch of wreckers in their game they're unable to kick out because the vote system doesnt work (especially when the wreckers can invite their wrecker buddies and completely make the voting system work against everyone, I've seen them vote kick the host on multiple occasions) ? No its not fair to people trying to have a clean race to have to deal with this.

HBR-Roadhog
02-06-2015, 17:55
kick button is against the idea of multi-player. Is unfair and arrogant to kick some because he's to fast, to slow or speak not the right language. That's the reason why I don't play in open lobbies. Yes that is true but do you really want to race with that type of person anyway?
There really is no big issue there if a person don't want you to race in their lobby for whatever reason you simply find another one or create your own and then you are the one who decides who to kick if anyone. Very simple and effective.

NIN
02-06-2015, 17:58
We need rating for ramers. You will get penalties for kicking ppl in high speed etc and in the lobby, ppl will see your ratings etc etc..

In the past, this was created by "Auto Club Revolution" developers. Racing game that is now closed. and that system worked perfectly. If you see ramer in the lobby, just kick them before the race.

Vote to kick, vote restart race (after more ppl spin of in the first corner etc..) is must!

HewisLamilton6
02-06-2015, 18:06
Id rather deal with hosts that abuse the kick button, then dealing with a room full of wreckers that are unable to be kicked due to no one voting to kick them.

Your right, the wreckers have no incentive not to smash people up. Then need something to make them think twice about ramming on purpose!!!

Psychomatrix
02-06-2015, 19:18
Yes that is true but do you really want to race with that type of person anyway?
There really is no big issue there if a person don't want you to race in their lobby for whatever reason you simply find another one or create your own and then you are the one who decides who to kick if anyone. Very simple and effective.

yes you're right.

Andy Apex
02-06-2015, 21:29
Sometimes i hard some people try to crash into you. Because they breake very late or better use you car to breake with. Ok sometimes the start is the worst thing. Some players did not press the break an rammed into others before the lights are green. Especially at Spa. So i hope some did train to getbetter drivers. I by myself was not the fastest but i try to drive clan and fair. Most online races i must leave because of crash thats not nice but what should i do. So in the future i hope to get how should i say cleaner races:p

Can we all just agree to learn how to spell the word "brake" ?

NemethR
02-06-2015, 21:39
Can we all just agree to learn how to spell the word "brake" ?

I would be interested how good your German is.

girlracerTracey
02-06-2015, 23:08
The problems are pretty clear, I think. If you are racing with collisions off, you are essentially not even racing. You are just doing time trial laps while other ghost cars are on the track. Making clean passes and managing risk/reward is a huge part of racing, possibly the most important part of racing. Without this component, it's not even worth racing for me.


Yes I'm aware of that as I have raced in real life. But you are misconstruing the point I was trying to make as regards racing online in public lobbies. A "kick" button against persistent & blatant offenders in a public lobby is efficient and it works. Likewise imo in all racing games that involve an online element in public lobbies a collisions-off option should be mandatory. It should be included in the game and be at the lobby host's control. It is designed in this context as a temporary fix to disincentivise the "rammers" and the "wreckers". Once they have got bored & left the host turns collisions back on again when he wishes to do so. No decent racers have to leave the lobby that way.

What is wrong with that?

The bottom line is that if you personally don't like the collisions-off option then don't use it. What's problematic about that? It's a free world. But I would suggest to you that if you have a ramming problem in a lobby(ies) on a particular night then it is a useful tool to have at your disposal.

I would agree with you though that neither of these options offer a perfect solution. To be honest I do not have the utmost faith in the alternative methods you suggested in your other post solving this problem to everyone's satisfaction either. I suppose arguably the best approach to this is a dual edged approach using "quick fixes" and also the more involved solution(s) that yourself and others have suggested.

grT :friendly_wink:

girlracerTracey
02-06-2015, 23:31
You can drive on any line without fear of being hit or hitting someone else and with a good group of racers it can be pretty intense. The other cars can also cause you some issues or at least they do in Forza as they obstruct your vision when you are close to them or inside of them. On PCars the ghosts are pretty much invisible when they are just in front of you so there is no obstruction of vision there as is. I still haven't decided if this is good or bad. I can tell you though that on Forza 2 some of the best races I have had were with collisions off. I have been in races were there were three of is driving inside each other as we crossed the finish line on the last lap with time separations in the 0.0xx range. Being that you can not block the car behind you it also may push you to drive harder into the corners in order to keep your lead and possibly to hard. Then you are out on Nurburgring on lap 3 of 3 running neck and neck with the fastest player for the lead when here comes a car going the wrong way and headed straight at you going 200mph. He drives right through you gets mad and leaves. Even that can cause a crash as it is such a rush to see something like that coming at you but nothing like it would be if he could have made contact.

Bottom line is that should be an option for online racing and many of us would welcome it for sure.



Spot-on. Throw in a slip-stream effect that is unaffected by collisions being turned off and collisions-off racing can actually be great fun & also be very, very competitive. A million times better than being punted off multiple times in a collisions-on race with a bunch or rammers and/or inconsiderate racers that is for sure. No contest in my personal view. For this reason it can also be useful in a novice lobby at times although I agree that newcomers also have to learn how to race properly with collisions turned-on. But as with everything in life each to his or her own. Hence the options & choices should be available to all. It's the only fair & equitable way imo.

grT :friendly_wink:

HewisLamilton6
03-06-2015, 11:59
I understand the point about collisions off, its a valid point!

Having the option is not a bad thing. Some people want to race like this that is there own choice, but for some who dont and see it as time trial laps collisions on needs something done like strong penalties to put people off ramming!