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pstglia
31-05-2015, 00:19
Hi. This game simulates mechanical failures, which is cool. However, seems it just happens with players. By the time I'm playing the game, never seem an AI have an blow engine or some lose of power...

A friend of mine likes long races. He raced for about 200 laps but not a single AI have any car problem...

Does AI actually suffers from mechanical failures? If not, I think it would be a good idea including it.

Regards,
pstglia

pigsy
31-05-2015, 05:10
Have seen the odd Lotus 98T pull off the side of the circuit during qualifying for an invitational event. Looks like they might have run out of fuel. But that's about all.

gormanio
31-05-2015, 08:37
hi there ive just started racing the endurance championship, had a great first race at watkins glen 3 hour, did the full race hardest difficulties.thankfully no rain appeared to ruin it. i noticed none of the ai cars retired due to mechanical issues. i had mechanical failures turned off in the gameplay menu. if i turn this on does this cause some ai retirements or does it just mean im going to blow my engine if i let it overheat?

k.merse
31-05-2015, 18:09
AI is not affected by mechanical failures so thee only way they can retire is if they are out of fuel or crash the car.

marcioindau
31-05-2015, 18:13
AI is not affected by mechanical failures so thee only way they can retire is if they are out of fuel or crash the car.

But this will be fixed??? Itīs unfari!!!

spinkick
31-05-2015, 18:13
AI is not affected by mechanical failures so thee only way they can retire is if they are out of fuel or crash the car.

I wonder if this will change? Thats kind of boring. Part of those long races is the mechanical "drama". It would be cool if they modeled driver fatigue even.

marcioindau
31-05-2015, 18:16
I wonder if this will change? Thats kind of boring. Part of those long races is the mechanical "drama". It would be cool if they modeled driver fatigue even.

THIS!!!! Endurance isnīt fun without mechanical damage. Please someone fix this! And itīs not a propper simulator without AI mechanical problems at all

Cholton82
31-05-2015, 18:21
Have to agree , if you make a mistake and end up a lap down its nice to know your not out of the hunt . Hope this gets fixed / implemented .

spinkick
31-05-2015, 18:26
Please make a mode with random mechanical failures if possible. Its fun to see AI start smoking and then pull off the track. :p

spinkick
31-05-2015, 18:28
It was discussed in the main forum that the AI doesnt suffer from any mechanical failure. It's also known that the player does not have random mechanical failure at all.

it would be cool to have a setting for both the AI having mechanical failure as well as the player.

Endurance races are all about the drama of keeping the machines going just as much as the race itself.

TrevorAustin
31-05-2015, 18:46
[QUOTE=spinkick;958454]I wonder if this will change? Thats kind of boring. Part of those long races is the mechanical "drama". It would be cool if they modeled driv

Nestoche
31-05-2015, 19:00
I thought it was in the game. This is disappointing!...AI mechanical DNF's should be in. Please add/fix this or add it to the pile of the bugs or addition list.

marcioindau
31-05-2015, 19:18
I really hope some moderator or developer read this.

Kruleworld
01-06-2015, 01:26
if it's enabled for the player then it should affect AI.

that said, mech fail seemed pointlessly random and only affects me when i'm doing well, so i disabled it.

gormanio
01-06-2015, 01:32
oh well that sucks, good to know before heading into the next race though.

WadeOhh
01-06-2015, 01:58
I remember back in the days of the Geoff Crammonds GP3 and GP4 games the excitement of retirements up ahead. On a few occasions, I'd be running 2nd or 3rd, only to come around a corner and whizz past a car and be like 'Oh, that looked like *whoever was ahead of me*', or to see them up ahead on a straight, then see them slow down and then whizz past them.

Then those magical words 'XXX is out of the race' :)

Yeah, it would be great to see AI retirements, or at least mechanical issues that pulled them into the pits. Like stated above, if you're behind, it would be good to know not all is lost if the AI could run into mechanical troubles.

Traser
01-06-2015, 07:11
This has disappointed me too. I assumed as Project Cars was advertised as the pinnacle of simulator racing games and that AI mistakes/ breakdowns and or crashes would be....erm...well simulated.

When you do a 40 car endurance race and 39 finish except you then that's totally unrealistic.

This along with the tuning setup saving issues has nearly put me off playing completely. Such a shame as this game is nearly there. Hopefully they will fix these.

Luke Townsend
01-06-2015, 07:41
I really hope some moderator or developer read this.

I assumed AI could suffer mechanical failures if the player can. So it is disappointing that they cannot. In case it helps get read by the devs, I've posted on the Ultimate Suggestion thread suggesting this.

Dutchmountains
01-06-2015, 07:51
I do fixed it for so long to put the tire wear at 3x.
Then theres happening something.
please make a random failure for the ai.
because this isnt realistic.

Cornflex
01-06-2015, 08:13
+1 for random mechanical failures for AI.

pigsy
01-06-2015, 08:48
Also the AI doesn't seem to have the ability to actually spinout. Sure they go off the track when touched by the player or other AI, but it always seems to be an understeering event. The AI physics engine also doesn't know what an accelerating power slide is.

mkstatto
01-06-2015, 10:49
This definatly is high up on my feature list, ahead of new vechilces and tracks for sure. This will start to become an issue with game longevity because its the kind of issue that will end up buging you all the time.

riverreveal
01-06-2015, 10:55
Totally agree with everything said here. Its become my biggest let down with Pcars. Its great having the dynamic weather/night and day, but without a more dynamic AI any racing beyond 5 laps feels a bit empty to me. I now stick to short races and practice, anything else just feels a bit meh.

I really hoped Pcars was going to be a fantastic racing sim, it is a great sim in many many ways, but for me it doesnt do a good job of simulating the feel of racing.

gormanio
01-06-2015, 11:55
such a great game just has too many silly bugs that make it unplayable especially in career. online is hit n miss not enough clean drivers out there. really hope they include ai retirements but i just dont see it happening, i think there are more important bugs to be fixed first, especially the rain issue.

Mascot
01-06-2015, 12:19
Also the AI doesn't seem to have the ability to actually spinout. Sure they go off the track when touched by the player or other AI, but it always seems to be an understeering event. The AI physics engine also doesn't know what an accelerating power slide is.

GRID did this superbly.

lawyer238
01-06-2015, 12:21
such a great game just has too many silly bugs that make it unplayable especially in career. online is hit n miss not enough clean drivers out there. really hope they include ai retirements but i just dont see it happening, i think there are more important bugs to be fixed first, especially the rain issue.

....but is this a bug of a rather unfortunate design decision, perhaps a developer can comment?

marcioindau
01-06-2015, 13:26
....but is this a bug of a rather unfortunate design decision, perhaps a developer can comment?
No one cares about us, the 2% of players who really enjoy the real simulator, played with 100% laps. I created a post like this and no one gives a coin ;/
Itīs a game breaker for me. AI DNF MUST BE IN THE GAME!!!

fallfromgrace
01-06-2015, 14:16
The possibility of AI mechanical failure would be a great implementation, and especially for the endurance races. Running for 24 hours and having zero, or perhaps one AI DNF, feels a bit... unspontaneous. Race-ending failures, as well as failures that the pit crews have to work on for a while before the car can return to the track, would be great and would add a realistic feeling to the race/game.

Dutchmountains
01-06-2015, 14:28
No one cares about us, the 2% of players who really enjoy the real simulator, played with 100% laps. I created a post like this and no one gives a coin ;/
Itīs a game breaker for me. AI DNF MUST BE IN THE GAME!!!

Yes come on wmd members, give us a serious responce.
PLEASE FIX IT!

edcwhite
01-06-2015, 14:43
Random mistakes (run offs and spin outs) and mechanical failure of the AI would definitely make them more human like and would mean that a race is not over if I have a single brain fart because the AI may have one later as well. This is definitely my #1 feature request.

spinkick
01-06-2015, 15:07
Devs, what's your take on all this? Was this a design decision or are we missing something?

marcioindau
02-06-2015, 05:17
Devs, what's your take on all this? Was this a design decision or are we missing something?

And... No one cares. I will vive up with this game.

Bealdor
02-06-2015, 05:50
And... No one cares. I will vive up with this game.

And... that's not true. SMS is taking all suggestions in account but they're too busy reacting to bug reports ATM.
If you haven't already, please make a post in the Ultimate Suggestion Thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?21985-Project-Cars-Ultimate-Suggestion-Thread). Your voice will be heard!

Similar threads merged and moved to Feature Suggestions subforum.

lawyer238
02-06-2015, 07:09
Do we take from your post that it is being confirmed that the absence of AI mechanical failures is a design decision and not bug.....


And... that's not true. SMS is taking all suggestions in account but they're too busy reacting to bug reports ATM.
If you haven't already, please make a post in the Ultimate Suggestion Thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?21985-Project-Cars-Ultimate-Suggestion-Thread). Your voice will be heard!

Similar threads merged and moved to Feature Suggestions subforum.

Bealdor
02-06-2015, 07:14
Do we take from your post that it is being confirmed that the absence of AI mechanical failures is a design decision and not bug.....

No I can't confirm this. I'm just making the same observations as you. :)

lawyer238
02-06-2015, 11:19
If this issue may be a bug then why has the thread been moved to the "Feature Suggestions". Surely, if it may be a bug it should be left in the general forum for a developer to clearly see?


No I can't confirm this. I'm just making the same observations as you. :)

Bealdor
02-06-2015, 11:32
Yeah, in hindsight not my brightest move today, sorry.

I'll still leave it here as it's very likely to be a missing feature. I forwarded it to SMS too so they're definitely aware of it.

Cheers

marcioindau
02-06-2015, 12:55
Yeah, in hindsight not my brightest move today, sorry.

I'll still leave it here as it's very likely to be a missing feature. I forwarded it to SMS too so they're definitely aware of it.

Cheers

Thx, you make my day more happy now =)

lawyer238
03-06-2015, 14:07
Thank you. This forum seems to have the most polite Mods in the world!



Yeah, in hindsight not my brightest move today, sorry.

I'll still leave it here as it's very likely to be a missing feature. I forwarded it to SMS too so they're definitely aware of it.

Cheers

kevinbuchholz
08-06-2015, 18:17
I'm not sure that damage from crashes (on the rare occasion that they suffer any) affects the AI either. I was racing at Road America the other night in the Rookie Prototypes, there was a huge pile up behind me with an AI car upside down. I made a few mistakes after that and sure enough, here comes that AI car outbraking me on the inside and passing me in turn 5. I was so distracted looking at this car with no bodywork or aero left outbraking me that I drove off the course. Haha.

I'll be waiting to pick it up again until some of this is fixed. I came from iRacing, looking for AI to race with because I don't have the time to put in to make populated races on iRacing in the cars I want to drive anymore.

lawyer238
09-06-2015, 07:52
"I'll be waiting to pick it up again until some of this is fixed."

I agree with you but I am really not sure that it is even being considered a bug rather than, in my view, a very regrettable game design decision but with this thread hidden away in the "Features" section then I don't think we can expect any comment from a developer.

Just in case a developer reads this post then please would they confirm whether this is a bug or a game design decision and, if it is a bug, move the thread to the correct section of the forum.

lawyer238
11-06-2015, 07:57
We're reading everything guys, no mod pointers needed.

I'll leave it to the Network coders but we are adding a lot to the online features over time.

Hi,

Please can you look at this thread and confirm whether the issue is a bug or a game design decision. Thanks:-

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29025-AI-mechanical-failures-and-DNFs

evanzo7
11-06-2015, 08:02
I remember back in the days of the Geoff Crammonds GP3 and GP4 games the excitement of retirements up ahead. On a few occasions, I'd be running 2nd or 3rd, only to come around a corner and whizz past a car and be like 'Oh, that looked like *whoever was ahead of me*', or to see them up ahead on a straight, then see them slow down and then whizz past them.

Then those magical words 'XXX is out of the race' :)

Yeah, it would be great to see AI retirements, or at least mechanical issues that pulled them into the pits. Like stated above, if you're behind, it would be good to know not all is lost if the AI could run into mechanical troubles.

Oh man, you've just made me reminisce loads about GP3, I used to play that game to death, loved it!

I need to go find it now and play it again!

Ian Bell
11-06-2015, 08:21
Hi,

Please can you look at this thread and confirm whether the issue is a bug or a game design decision. Thanks:-

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29025-AI-mechanical-failures-and-DNFs

Hi there!

AI can retire. But for game play reasons we found that we were often ending up with the player alone in a race. We tweaked the settings but then found issues with long races (24 hours is loooong) and getting the balance correct for every race length and every time acceleration level. In the end we increased the AI stamina a lot to make the best of the situation.

The good part is that the logic and code is there and we can work on the 'balancing' over time.

Bealdor
11-06-2015, 08:33
Posts moved to this thread because it's more relevant here.

Edit: Moved to General Discussion because this feature is already existing. Thread title updated.

lawyer237
11-06-2015, 08:38
Hi there!

AI can retire. But for game play reasons we found that we were often ending up with the player alone in a race. We tweaked the settings but then found issues with long races (24 hours is loooong) and getting the balance correct for every race length and every time acceleration level. In the end we increased the AI stamina a lot to make the best of the situation.

The good part is that the logic and code is there and we can work on the 'balancing' over time.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Neil Hopwood
11-06-2015, 08:42
Hi there!

AI can retire. But for game play reasons we found that we were often ending up with the player alone in a race. We tweaked the settings but then found issues with long races (24 hours is loooong) and getting the balance correct for every race length and every time acceleration level. In the end we increased the AI stamina a lot to make the best of the situation.

The good part is that the logic and code is there and we can work on the 'balancing' over time.

Ian,

would it be any use if someone went through and did a mechanical DNF/per lap type analysis of real life race results? sorted by class obviously.

Ian Bell
11-06-2015, 08:47
Ian,

would it be any use if someone went through and did a mechanical DNF/per lap type analysis of real life race results? sorted by class obviously.

We already did that, thanks though Neil.

The issue really is the complexity of the failure code. We didn't want to 'bake' in X amount of failures, we wanted it to be more organic and based on AI driving particulars (hitting other cars, hitting player car, hitting too many kerbs too harshly, overdriving etc). It's all there, we just need a 'ton!' of time to balance it so it works always as it should.

We are slightly the victims of the flexibility and variability we've put into the race options.

Neil Hopwood
11-06-2015, 08:55
We already did that, thanks though Neil.

The issue really is the complexity of the failure code. We didn't want to 'bake' in X amount of failures, we wanted it to be more organic and based on AI driving particulars (hitting other cars, hitting player car, hitting too many kerbs too harshly, overdriving etc). It's all there, we just need a 'ton!' of time to balance it so it works always as it should.

We are slightly the victims of the flexibility and variability we've put into the race options.

I had a feeling it wasn't gonna that simple, but I figure it was worth a shot :)

spinkick
11-06-2015, 16:08
That's great news that its already in there! There are so many cars, tracks etc, its gotta be hard to get this tuned.

FarChri
11-06-2015, 16:28
Perfect - that's some good news again!

AfterAll14
11-06-2015, 16:43
We already did that, thanks though Neil.

The issue really is the complexity of the failure code. We didn't want to 'bake' in X amount of failures, we wanted it to be more organic and based on AI driving particulars (hitting other cars, hitting player car, hitting too many kerbs too harshly, overdriving etc). It's all there, we just need a 'ton!' of time to balance it so it works always as it should.

We are slightly the victims of the flexibility and variability we've put into the race options.

What theoretical background you use to determine mechanical failures?

tyl3r99
16-06-2015, 20:55
+1 hope AI do get more exciting...

the AI are on train tracks it seems

this is why i watch BTCC :D

lawyer238
28-06-2015, 18:52
Hi there!

AI can retire. But for game play reasons we found that we were often ending up with the player alone in a race. We tweaked the settings but then found issues with long races (24 hours is loooong) and getting the balance correct for every race length and every time acceleration level. In the end we increased the AI stamina a lot to make the best of the situation.

The good part is that the logic and code is there and we can work on the 'balancing' over time.

Hi,

When you have a moment perhaps you can update us to when the AI retiring logic may be updated.

Many thanks

J.

lawyer237
11-07-2015, 11:00
Hi there!

AI can retire. But for game play reasons we found that we were often ending up with the player alone in a race. We tweaked the settings but then found issues with long races (24 hours is loooong) and getting the balance correct for every race length and every time acceleration level. In the end we increased the AI stamina a lot to make the best of the situation.

The good part is that the logic and code is there and we can work on the 'balancing' over time.

Hi,

Any chance of an update on whether/when this can be balanced/refined.

Thanks.

J.

bjosim
11-07-2015, 11:26
Ian, could it be possible to make some code that adjust AI stamina based on race length? Make them a bit more vulnerable on shorter races..

Ian Bell
11-07-2015, 12:06
Ian, could it be possible to make some code that adjust AI stamina based on race length? Make them a bit more vulnerable on shorter races..

It's being worked on yes.

lawyer238
11-07-2015, 12:17
It's being worked on yes.

Thank you.

marcioindau
14-07-2015, 13:03
Still waiting for a update. Almost 3 mounths and I cant be happy playing endurance races with only my car suffering from mechanical damages.

Bealdor
14-07-2015, 13:03
You got an update two posts above...

marcioindau
15-07-2015, 21:37
You got an update two posts above...
Rly?? Where ia the date?

Nats
16-07-2015, 18:46
I thought it was in the game. This is disappointing!...AI mechanical DNF's should be in. Please add/fix this or add it to the pile of the bugs or addition list.

Absolutely +1 ! I thought it was in the game as well. Mechanical failures are a very important immersive part of taking part in races for me, if I suffer them I want to see the AI getting them as well, shame this isnt in the game. Good to hear the code is in there though and its just a matter of balancing. Would love to see the AI retire with engine blow outs like in GP4.

marcioindau
21-07-2015, 11:15
Absolutely +1 ! I thought it was in the game as well. Mechanical failures are a very important immersive part of taking part in races for me, if I suffer them I want to see the AI getting them as well, shame this isnt in the game. Good to hear the code is in there though and its just a matter of balancing. Would love to see the AI retire with engine blow outs like in GP4.

The code is in? I dont think so. 4 mounths and this game dont have AI DNF, itīs a shame.

Nats
21-07-2015, 12:06
The code is in? I dont think so. 4 mounths and this game dont have AI DNF, itīs a shame.

Check back a couple of pages, dev has said its in there but requires a lot of time to balance.

Couldnt it be just a matter of temporarily assigning a 'likelihood of mechanical failure variable' based on race length and other race factors so that at least we could see some DNFs from the AI. Of course detailed failures will take a lot longer to balance from the sound of it, but a quick patch to introduce them in the meantime ... ??? I would be happy with that.

I am sure they were very simple in games like GP4 and F1 Challenge - but to the player who doesnt know any different they still seemed like an exciting variable addition to the game. Doesnt have to be too complex. I suppose its never as easy as it sounds though!

marcioindau
22-07-2015, 15:49
Check back a couple of pages, dev has said its in there but requires a lot of time to balance.

Couldnt it be just a matter of temporarily assigning a 'likelihood of mechanical failure variable' based on race length and other race factors so that at least we could see some DNFs from the AI. Of course detailed failures will take a lot longer to balance from the sound of it, but a quick patch to introduce them in the meantime ... ??? I would be happy with that.

I am sure they were very simple in games like GP4 and F1 Challenge - but to the player who doesnt know any different they still seemed like an exciting variable addition to the game. Doesnt have to be too complex. I suppose its never as easy as it sounds though!

My oppinion is this game is sold as a racing simulator, but itīs a driving simulator. AI DNF should be one of top priority in the buglist.

marcioindau
06-10-2015, 17:40
Almost 6 months and nothing about A.I. DNF.

Itīs funny that even forza 6 the cars have the windows dirty, and in this "simulator" you do 500 laps and your window is clean LOL!!!!!!!!

Knightfall
06-10-2015, 17:46
We already did that, thanks though Neil.

The issue really is the complexity of the failure code. We didn't want to 'bake' in X amount of failures, we wanted it to be more organic and based on AI driving particulars (hitting other cars, hitting player car, hitting too many kerbs too harshly, overdriving etc). It's all there, we just need a 'ton!' of time to balance it so it works always as it should.

We are slightly the victims of the flexibility and variability we've put into the race options.

I cannot begin to tell you how HAPPY I am that "X amount of failures" isn't "baked" in. While I agree, the AI should f%#$ up more, having them behave organically is the best possible option.

As complexity increases, so to will the time to tune it right. THRILLED to hear you are on it.

NemethR
06-10-2015, 21:23
We already did that, thanks though Neil.

The issue really is the complexity of the failure code. We didn't want to 'bake' in X amount of failures, we wanted it to be more organic and based on AI driving particulars (hitting other cars, hitting player car, hitting too many kerbs too harshly, overdriving etc). It's all there, we just need a 'ton!' of time to balance it so it works always as it should.

We are slightly the victims of the flexibility and variability we've put into the race options.


You guys really overcomplicate things... :)
Just do a "Randomize" and select 2-3 maybe 4 cars depending on the grid size, that will get mechanical failures, and then randomize a lap# when they will retire.

Job done :)

Shinzah
06-10-2015, 21:26
You guys really overcomplicate things... :)
Just do a "Randomize" and select 2-3 maybe 4 cars depending on the grid size, that will get mechanical failures, and then randomize a lap# when they will retire.

Job done :)

Sometimes things need to be overcomplicated rather than oversimplified. This would naff the hell out of career.

John Hargreaves
06-10-2015, 21:26
You guys really overcomplicate things... :)
Just do a "Randomize" and select 2-3 maybe 4 cars depending on the grid size, that will get mechanical failures, and then randomize a lap# when they will retire.

Job done :)

That's not the pCars way :rolleyes:

NemethR
07-10-2015, 06:22
That's not the pCars way :rolleyes:

But it is the efficient way!
And this feature is something you would NEVER really care how it works, as it gets the job done properly.

There are thing that are more important then others, but all must be done, in Life too.
For the more important you give the maximum, for the less important you don't :)

Dutchmountains
07-10-2015, 06:23
That's not the pCars way :rolleyes:

Maybe not the pcars way but you make a lot players verry happy.

marcioindau
05-06-2016, 19:18
A year later and this isnīt fixed...

Konan
05-06-2016, 20:01
A year later and this isnīt fixed...

There is nothing to be fixed though...post #44 says it all...

Grunotti
07-06-2016, 14:00
A year later and this isnīt fixed...

Thats excactly the reason i dont play PCars anymore.
The fun is out of the game .

Rambo_Commando
08-06-2016, 03:55
Thats excactly the reason i dont play PCars anymore.
The fun is out of the game .

I don't understand why you would post this. If your not playing the game then why even bother posting on this forum?

Grunotti
08-06-2016, 06:19
I don't understand why you would post this. If your not playing the game then why even bother posting on this forum?

Its dissapiontment and frustration because the game is fantastic but is getting ruined by no ai failures.
And thats frustrating.
And i post and read this forum because i hope one day.....

wadafaka
07-04-2017, 19:21
ugh.. why is this still not fixed. The driving is shit (horribly simplistic FFB with wheel) in GRID Autosport, but at least they get the crashes right.. Your opponents make mistakes, just like you. If only they fixed the AI in this game. They are so mechanical, it's ridiculous

Konan
07-04-2017, 19:26
ugh.. why is this still not fixed. The driving is shit (horribly simplistic FFB with wheel) in GRID Autosport, but at least they get the crashes right.. Your opponents make mistakes, just like you. If only they fixed the AI in this game. They are so mechanical, it's ridiculous

May i remind you...

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29025-Confirmed-Post-44-AI-mechanical-failures-and-DNFs&p=981690&viewfull=1#post981690

hkraft300
10-04-2017, 21:47
ugh.. why is this still not fixed. The driving is shit (horribly simplistic FFB with wheel) in GRID Autosport, but at least they get the crashes right.. Your opponents make mistakes, just like you. If only they fixed the AI in this game. They are so mechanical, it's ridiculous

Why? It's a 2 year old game and pc2 is due out hopefully this year and also see post #44.
Mechanical? The AI in this game is more organic than most humans I've raced. What game are you playing? The AI do make mistakes, get spooked, swap paint, go off track... and that's in a 15-20 lap qrw.
Does it bother you so much the AI don't have spectacular failures to give you easy grid positions? If yes: get some perspective in your life.