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ThePla7Maker
01-06-2015, 11:06
just started to use manual gears I know it takes a lot of practice but I am struggling with what gear to be in at different corners
to maximise speed. would all the quick guys use same gear as each other on every corner? or does it make a difference with set ups etc.
would be good to get a basic tutorial of the turns on a track here is a example

Mercedes e30 at hockenheim national.

Turn 1 5th gear
turn 2 2nd gear
turn 3 3rd gear
etc.

I would find that a better help than set ups. once I had correct gears I think it would be easier and more natural for positioning.
ignore me if its a stupid idea. thanks.

kilotango
01-06-2015, 12:45
something like this perhaps?

205694

ThePla7Maker
01-06-2015, 13:00
that's mental . where did you get that from?

JeyD02
01-06-2015, 13:07
that's mental . where did you get that from?

Internet :). :p it has everything nowadays.

Anyways, regarding gears. You need to keep practicing with gear ratio and learning to listen to engine noise, curve references, quick shifting techniques while maintaining power band. As you keep playing and being in sync with engine noise/RPM. You'll start to shift properly and you'll know subconsciously what shifts are needed. Like harpins down to 1or 2 depending on on car, 30 degree turns on 3rd 90 on 4th wide curves 1 downshift. Etc

kilotango
01-06-2015, 13:40
that's mental . where did you get that from?

i managed to find it from Google images... i believe its based on the 2010 F1 race at Hockenheim, but i guess you could use this is a basic reference for lower powered cars to get an idea of what gears to use for corners.

transfix
01-06-2015, 13:52
just started to use manual gears I know it takes a lot of practice but I am struggling with what gear to be in at different corners
to maximise speed. would all the quick guys use same gear as each other on every corner? or does it make a difference with set ups etc.
would be good to get a basic tutorial of the turns on a track here is a example

Mercedes e30 at hockenheim national.

Turn 1 5th gear
turn 2 2nd gear
turn 3 3rd gear
etc.

I would find that a better help than set ups. once I had correct gears I think it would be easier and more natural for positioning.
ignore me if its a stupid idea. thanks.


You will have to do a few laps to find out the best values since each track demands different settings. I like to start by mapping my final gear on the highest speed zone on the circuit. 3rd gear is my sweet spot and the one I spend most time getting down. Once I have those 2 locked I work the other gears around that.
Everyone has a different approach that is just how I tune gears.

kilotango
01-06-2015, 13:54
alternatively, switch the car to automatic... do a few quick laps.. then have a look at the replay after and make some notes on gears from there

ThePla7Maker
01-06-2015, 14:27
thanks great advice. I cant seem to get lower than 134 on hockenheim community event. that's with manual and auto. also cant even download a ghost from time trial as its not a fast car in that class.

MULTIVITZ
01-06-2015, 16:27
It takes me 4 laps to decide whats gears I need to get a half decent lap together. By that time the race is usually over! I just end up getting in everyones way lol A lot of the time its how the diffs been set. If you come to a bend that doesn't flow with what you got, you have to decide what to do. I take time and help for others usually.
I heard F1 drivers usually do it in 2 laps, two shakes n a squirt of throttle lol

hkraft300
01-06-2015, 16:41
It takes me 4 laps to decide whats gears I need to get a half decent lap together. By that time the race is usually over! I just end up getting in everyones way lol A lot of the time its how the diffs been set. If you come to a bend that doesn't flow with what you got, you have to decide what to do. I take time and help for others usually.

Diff settings will have little effect on what gear you want to be in. Exiting a 2nd gear corner you're gonna have traction issues in any car over ~300hp and diff won't save you.

A correctly adjusted differential isn't a magic solution to every problem.

Skanda-Five
01-06-2015, 21:06
Try setting up a quick race weekend with AI on 100% and make sure the sessions are long enough for you to watch in the monitor.
Switch on the telemetry an watch what the AI uses.
That will at least give you an idea.
Is there a shortcut?
Probably not. Laps, laps, laps.

lacslyer
01-06-2015, 21:50
When learning a new car on a new track I typically go around at about 75% speed the first lap to get an idea of brake points and what gear I need to be in. This is something I don't think enough people do and should be a promoted practice.

I'd highly suggest that instead of attempting to memorize what gears to use in which corners of specific tracks for certain cars that you simply gain some experience with handling a manual for a while first. Pick a car (not necessarily a high end one) and a track and spend your time on it until you're comfortable to where you don't even think about the shifting process anymore, so it becomes second nature. Then move onto another track and do the same. Once you've done that a few times with the same car you'll develop enough skill to understand how to do this for most cars on any track. Just take your time and don't attempt to learn too much at once.

hkraft300
01-06-2015, 23:29
^ +1

choose the right gear to stay in the engine's power band. Otherwise, choose a gear to reduce the torque output to the wheels to keep grip.

helps to be familiar with the car - fast or slow.

ThePla7Maker
02-06-2015, 10:40
When learning a new car on a new track I typically go around at about 75% speed the first lap to get an idea of brake points and what gear I need to be in. This is something I don't think enough people do and should be a promoted practice.

I'd highly suggest that instead of attempting to memorize what gears to use in which corners of specific tracks for certain cars that you simply gain some experience with handling a manual for a while first. Pick a car (not necessarily a high end one) and a track and spend your time on it until you're comfortable to where you don't even think about the shifting process anymore, so it becomes second nature. Then move onto another track and do the same. Once you've done that a few times with the same car you'll develop enough skill to understand how to do this for most cars on any track. Just take your time and don't attempt to learn too much at once.


thanks for the help. I have been using hockenheim lately doing community challenge.i realise I wont get fast over night I will just
keep practicing . :cool:

choupolo
02-06-2015, 15:10
For the Hockenheim National community event in the Merc 190E, I've changed my final gear setting to just under 5. That means I reach the end of the power band of 6th down the longest straight e.g. the one after turn 2. I haven't messed with the individual gears yet.

Here's what I'm doing:

Turn 1 - fast right (if you cut to the right of the sausage kerb) - 5th
Turn 2 - sharp right - 2nd
Turn 3 - double right at the end of the straight - 2nd
Turn 4 - 90 left - 2nd
Turn 5 - fast right - 5th
Turn 6 - wide entry right - 4th
Turn 7 - long left - 3rd
Turn 8 - long right - 3rd
Turn 9 - final right - 4th

Hope it helps! :D

ThePla7Maker
02-06-2015, 15:37
I've changed my final gear setting to just under 5. That means I reach the end of the power band of 6th down the longest straight e.g. the one after turn 2. I haven't messed with the individual gears yet.

Here's what I'm doing:

Turn 1 - fast right (if you cut to the right of the sausage kerb) - 5th
Turn 2 - sharp right - 2nd
Turn 3 - double right at the end of the straight - 2nd
Turn 4 - 90 left - 2nd
Turn 5 - fast right - 5th
Turn 6 - wide entry right - 4th
Turn 7 - long left - 3rd
Turn 8 - long right - 3rd
Turn 9 - final right - 4th

Hope it helps! :D

thank you that's great .

daddyboosive
02-06-2015, 15:46
You'll pick it up quicker then you think and you'll just know what gears you need to be in for certain types of corners. Normal, hairpins, chicanes, sweepers and follow throughs etc. Cars do differ though of course. One car might be able to take a corner in 2nd for example but and another might need to be in 3rd. So it's more about getting to know the car you're driving, as opposed to the track imo.

MULTIVITZ
04-06-2015, 10:41
Diff settings will have little effect on what gear you want to be in. Exiting a 2nd gear corner you're gonna have traction issues in any car over ~300hp and diff won't save you.

A correctly adjusted differential isn't a magic solution to every problem.

A. It depends how high your second gear is!
B. My own car in real life is close to 300hp and I don't have an LSD and its fine!
C. Theres no magic involved, just a well set differential that stabalises a setup?

Now go back and do your homework, leaving replies like that?

Bealdor
04-06-2015, 10:58
A. It depends how high your second gear is!
B. My own car in real life is close to 300hp and I don't have an LSD and its fine!
C. Theres no magic involved, just a well set differential that stabalises a setup?

Now go back and do your homework, leaving replies like that?

Could you please finally stop playing the senior teacher and not belittle other people's opinions, just because they don't agree with you?

hkraft300
04-06-2015, 11:34
A lot of the time its how the diffs been set

so does the limited slip action of a differential dictate what gear you should be in? or are LSD's negligible, according to your next post below? assuming we're not talking about final drive ratio.


A. It depends how high your second gear is!
B. My own car in real life is close to 300hp and I don't have an LSD and its fine!
C. Theres no magic involved, just a well set differential that stabalises a setup?

Now go back and do your homework, leaving replies like that?

A - no ~300hp car has a 2nd gear to take you to 90mph and have unbreakable traction.

B - what car has ~300hp, without any sort LSD, and doesn't trigger your TC/SC when you apply full throttle when exiting a 2nd gear turn? we can all assume a 2nd gear turn is generally a pretty tight corner.

C - explain to me how does a differential dictate what gear you should be in? I'm under the assumption the gear you choose for a turn is the one that keeps you in the powerband of the engine.
EDIT: agreed, a well setup differential will help give more grip. but this thread is about what gear to choose for a corner.


I had a ~250 wheel hp car (1990 300zx z32 twin turbo 2 seater, JDM spec import). it had a viscous LSD. sure they're not great, whatever, but the car had great grip and suspension was in good condition. Even with semi-slicks on a summer day, in 3rd gear if I applied full throttle with half a turn of the steering wheel, I would be sideways like I'm auditioning for FailArmy on Youtube. 2nd gear had traction in a straight line on a clean dry road, but I could never full throttle exiting a 2nd gear corner.

so educate me since my homework is so incomplete

MULTIVITZ
04-06-2015, 12:41
Ask a formula one driver?

I'm not allowed to battle with you and play teacher lol it's fair enough, you are a bit tiring.
You should have had it checked out, sounded dangerous, thats way more than 300 torques:rolleyes:and if its an auto that amplifies them, just saying? I appied to a Nissen tuning house as an engine builder, but thats another story!
If you could appreciate preload and diff input torque more, life would be easier comming out of corners thats all I'm trying to get across. If you're in the right gear a well set diff will keep the car steady and allow a more control to get a faster line out of the bend. The cars doing its best to do that for you. Gears=torque=LSD activation. It's one of the advantages of having a wide torque band and close ratio gear set . Jmtc

The answer to C is in my diff post. I think I'm correct in its mechanism theory. You decide?

hkraft300
04-06-2015, 16:44
wow


Ask a formula one driver?

I'm asking you clarification on the advice you've given on this thread regarding gear selection for corners. so does the diff dictate your choice of gear as per:


A lot of the time its how the diffs been set.

or does it not, according to:


B. My own car in real life is close to 300hp and I don't have an LSD and its fine!

+

If you're in the right gear a well set diff will keep the car steady and allow a more control to get a faster line out of the bend. The cars doing its best to do that for you. Gears=torque=LSD activation.
?


I'm not allowed to battle with you and play teacher lol it's fair enough, you are a bit tiring.

so sorry that to enlighten a simpleton like myself is such a tiresome affair for you.

nobody has challenged you to a battle. I'm simply asking for clarification and justification of your advice.



You should have had it checked out, sounded dangerous, thats way more than 300 torques:rolleyes:and if its an auto that amplifies them, just saying?

was the 300ZX dangerous? in the wrong hands - of course. it's a car with only ABS but no TC/SC and if you're not wary of the boost bites hard. it was a manual. and no, even in perfect conditions with good tires with a hefty amount of steering lock it had enough power to overwhelm the rears in 1st-2nd-3rd. the suspension was done by a pro (nothing drift-spec, almost factory because it was my daily).

(always be careful with fresh tires for the first few days til the initial layer scrubs off, kids!).



I applied to a Nissan tuning house as an engine builder, but that's another story!
If you could appreciate preload and diff input torque more, life would be easier coming out of corners thats all I'm trying to get across. If you're in the right gear a well set diff will keep the car steady and allow a more control to get a faster line out of the bend. The cars doing its best to do that for you. Gears=torque=LSD activation. It's one of the advantages of having a wide torque band and close ratio gear set . Jmtc

The answer to C is in my diff post. I think I'm correct in its mechanism theory. You decide?


agreed - a differential helps put power to the ground. nobody is disputing that. but according to that, the LSD behaviour is dependent on the torque output after the gearbox. which we all agree with.

so then how does the LSD dictate what gear you should be in?

my question from the beginning is the consistency and accuracy of your advice. if I've misunderstood anything you've said, set me straight. otherwise, back your statements. don't get all condescending when someone calls you out propagating BS.

so you think that most cars with ~300hp should handle full throttle through the necessary steering angle of a 2nd gear corner? again what do you drive and what have you driven that can do that? that negligible attitude to that amount of power is dangerous. there are people on this forum with less comprehension of laws of physics and vehicle dynamics than you and me.

by the way, ladies and lads: be very careful when applying full throttle in any car (FWD/RWD/AWD) with a lot of steering lock (>90 degrees) you will lose traction if said car doesn't have TC/SC. and if you're trying to drift, do be careful that nobody gets hurt.

I'm sorry the differential does NOT dictate what gear you should be in. the engine's power band/gear ratios/ corner speed does.

hkraft300
04-06-2015, 17:04
Multivitz: chassis specialist, diff guru and also master machinist engine builder... ladies and gentlemen. bow down.

edit: I'm sorry, did I forget suspension designer?

donpost
04-06-2015, 17:27
hkraft300 I'm with you. But playing devil's advocate for a minute maybe he means this: Say you have a high power RWD car with a completely open diff. Coming out of a medium speed corner you might choose 3rd gear because you can't put that much torque down owing because the diff is open so the inside wheel will just spin. So because 3rd has less torque than 2nd it's easier to keep on the threshold of traction. But then say you tuned the diff correctly so now you can put down more torque. Now you might decide to use 2nd coming out of that corner because there is now more traction available and you want to use it all.

Or maybe he's talking guff.

hkraft300
04-06-2015, 18:27
hkraft300 I'm with you. But playing devil's advocate for a minute maybe he means this: Say you have a high power RWD car with a completely open diff. Coming out of a medium speed corner you might choose 3rd gear because you can't put that much torque down owing because the diff is open so the inside wheel will just spin. So because 3rd has less torque than 2nd it's easier to keep on the threshold of traction. But then say you tuned the diff correctly so now you can put down more torque. Now you might decide to use 2nd coming out of that corner because there is now more traction available and you want to use it all.

Or maybe he's talking guff.

agreed. I'd do the same if it made me more consistent out of said corner in the open-diff car. but if I had the fine throttle control skills I'd still choose to be in 2nd for a faster exit. eg F1 car at Dubai GP circuit, the turn 8/9 left hand bend before the long back straight, I should be in 3rd gear but choose 4th because I can full throttle it all the way round consistently and all I gotta think of is the line. again, maybe with a better diff I'd choose 3rd if it gave me the grip, but my primary choice (3rd) is dictated by power band/gear ratio.

but you're not the one putting out a know-it-all attitude and aerating your resume then giving half-arse incorrect (possibly dangerous) advice.

there's no road car I know of that has ~300hp you can hit full throttle on 2nd gear all the way through a 2nd gear corner. act like full throttle on 2nd gear with a lot of steering lock is nothing gives the wrong idea to some kid who might decide to go try it in real life and hurt somebody.

RobMUFC1987
04-06-2015, 19:34
Manual for me is about feel. You can enter the same corner 3 times at 3 different speeds. Initial turn in can be a problem to start with. Some corners may feel like it should 3rd gear, but really you need to 2nd for better turn in and line the next corner, for example 1st Corner, well 1st Braking corner at Imola. Can be taken in 3rd, but 2nd helps for turn 2 and 3. Same with turn 5, you can get the power down earlier

Kaliber
04-06-2015, 20:07
If you are just starting out with a manual you should probably keep it simple at first. Just watch/listen to your revs, they will give you an idea of whether you are too low or too high in terms of gear.

As with most things its a lot of trial and error.

Buster689
16-06-2015, 15:29
Honestly i find it helps to watch the speed as well as the gear due to the fact that gear ratios will affect the gear to be in on some corners but not always the speeds, this means (for me at least) i can consistently take corners at optimal speeds irrelevant of the gear, some people will judge me for this as it means during my practise laps im constantly checking speeds and mentally noting them down for the first 3-6 laps, but this is just how i work :)

Mturner
17-06-2015, 17:07
Gear depends on (IMO);
Conditions/grip, Circuit bumps etc, driving style (flat out or conservative on tire), engine design (torque/power) etc etc.

For example in a wet condition on a fast, long corner in a very high HP car instead of generating 600 uncontrollable horsepower in 3rd gear and loosing the back, it may be safer and more consistent to use 4th gear but at the same time, be careful of the torque...

You want a gear high enough (Lower number) to not be overwhelmed by torque-push when off throttle and low enough that you can control the power accurately (not like a jumpy 1st gear). if you try to take a 2nd gear corner in 4th gear even at the right speed, the torque through the drive-train even without throttle can make the front run wide (under-steer). A 3rd gear corner taken in 2nd will probably give a lot of over-steer if you bang down the throttle...

There are so many variables that it is best for me to simply recommend learning it for yourself with damage on and see how you go... (if you wreck the box just restart and remember not to change down so early) - If the car bogs down on corner exit and does not power out, you probably need to change down 1.

Good luck and remember to have fun :)