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ManWithNoMouth
01-06-2015, 21:45
I've been racing against the top ghosts on Oulton park international and Brands GP with the ford escort, but something doesn't quite seem right on either of them. Particularly on the brands hatch record. The ghost seems to pull away massively on the straights out of corners. Now I'm no slouch and I've put in a lot of laps... it doesn't matter what line I take, it's like these top times were set in a quicker version of the car? I just can't quite get close enough to them.

So what am I missing... are they old lap times from an old version of the car? Is there something I'm missing on my car setup to improve my acceleration (the gearing is limited on the ford though)? Or am I imagining things? I feel like I've tried everything now. I urge anyone with a bit of pace to have a go at them and see what they think! You'll see my times on the board too so you can look at my attempts too. This is on PC.

P.S. Wondering if this may also be related to why the AI pace in these cars is so fast... I've won everything in career on 100% AI until the historic touring series!

thisisbleep
02-06-2015, 02:17
Have you tried to adjust the car setup?

Sloskimo
02-06-2015, 05:16
Everything seems fine to me, I have a distinct dislike for Brands, but managed ok in the escort. Am by no means really fast, so there should be a lot to gain there for you. Reckon the faster peeps out there will put it in the 1:43 or faster range if they tried.

On both tracks your ghost data failed to upload, so I couldn't really see where you lose time on Brands.

It's a hard track to keep the momentum going in this car as it's not particularly keen on turning. It's intent seems to focus more on putting you in a wall on corner exit :)

ManWithNoMouth
02-06-2015, 11:13
Yes, I have tuned this car a lot.

Disappointing that my ghosts failed to upload... I felt the oulton park lap was very good, I still haven't done anything like my max at brands yet. Thanks for the input though Sloskimo, I have been following your ghost on brands and I stay ahead through turns 1 and 2, maintain the gap through 3, then the exit of turn 4 before the long straight you just zoom away from me (like every ghost on brands seems to) so there must be something I'm doing wrong there. Really need to work out what I'm doing wrong there but I'm stumped.

I think you're being a little harsh on your own skills though, I don't think there's any way anyone will ever do a 1:43 in the escort, I think a low 1:45 is feasible, high 1:44 at a real push. I think if I can fix whatever I'm doing at turn 4 I could get nick the current top time, but only just. Your lap is very good, I'd be happy just to beat that!

That top oulton park time though... absolutely out of this world. I can't work that one out at all.

MikeyTT
02-06-2015, 12:54
I can't comment on the Oulton International time, as I've not run that in the Escort, but I was top on the Fosters circuit a week or two back.

Is that 1:11 time the best you've been at Fosters? i.e. have you gone quicker in FP or a race?

I've found that I gain a lot of time, just by changing how I enter and exit a corner. I've been running with the default setup, as I've felt it's not too bad and there is more time in me getting a great lap together, before I go off changing the car around. Have a drive against my ghost and I'll gladly try and explain where, and if possible how, I was quicker.

TBH I've done a load more laps in the Caterham Classic around Oulton, and hold P1 @ Int and Fosters (so far).

ManWithNoMouth
02-06-2015, 13:09
MikeyTT thanks I'll have a look.

Now, I would very much like someone to explain this. I've taken a video of me racing against one of the top brands GP ghosts. This is exactly what I'm talking about with turn 4.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rSXFWa_30Q

Sloskimo
02-06-2015, 14:12
Not sure what's happening on the straight with you, I did notice you shift down when entering the long straight and then shift up again right after, pretty sure I remained in the same gear (second) there. Also tend to redline it to the max there in each gear. This might make a difference, especially since there's an incline. That's the only thing I can think of?

As far as the times, I only ran 2-3 laps on Brands just to see if anything was going on. Pretty sure I could get it into the 1:45's myself with some effort. And from experience -like the p1 on Oulton Int.- I know there's people who will happily go 2-3 secs faster on most tracks than my best times. So if anyone feels compelled to prove my point, go right ahead :P

Usually there's time to be had trying different setups and/or some TT competition. It's as MikeyTT said, perhaps try some different lines and braking points, it can make quite a difference. I usually don't bother too much, just run a few laps and be done with it. But when doing more laps and experimenting a bit, usually I can find anywhere from 1-3 secs on most tracks without too much trouble.

ManWithNoMouth
02-06-2015, 14:39
I think you've cracked it Sloskimo, just had a quick go and redlining to 8000RPM seems to keep me at pace! I thought I'd tried that earlier but I guess not, I can't believe it was so simple, thank you. That should give me the extra second I need.

I'll be interested to see how quick the times go, my frame of reference was skewed what with being short of pace on the straights. I'll have a go later on with this knowledge and try and crack the no.1 spot. I still think 1:43 is very optimistic for anyone though!

BazzaLB
02-06-2015, 15:01
You beat my time (so stop complaining) at Brands GP by the looks of it :D Last I looked I was on top. (my excuse is I used default setup LOL). I'll have to have another go soon

MikeyTT
02-06-2015, 15:36
Right, that's it.

I don't normally fire the rig up in the week, but all this talk of fast laps in one of my fave cars and I'm going to have to roll out the Escort on a default setup and see where I can get tonight. At least I'm cheating on my beloved Oulton Park with another UK circuit, so I won't feel too bad ;)

Sloskimo
02-06-2015, 15:44
Right, that's it.

I don't normally fire the rig up in the week, but all this talk of fast laps in one of my fave cars and I'm going to have to roll out the Escort on a default setup and see where I can get tonight. At least I'm cheating on my beloved Oulton Park with another UK circuit, so I won't feel too bad ;)

No need to cheat, Oulton needs "work" also by now in the Caterham :P

yorksnproud
02-06-2015, 17:09
Always makes me grin when the old "he must be cheating" comment comes out when someone just isn't fast enough to get near the top times.

Not sure I've set a time on Oulton International, but as at last night I had the record for Fosters with the Escort with a 1:10.0 and during a race last night managed a 1:09.5 after dialling a bit of understeer out.

I can assure you I wasn't cheating and really wouldn't know how if I wanted to.

One thing is for sure, in order to get to these times, you must work at experimenting with your setups.

So rather than whinging about people cheating, get out there and do what it takes to improve your setup and set quicker lap times.

Sloskimo
02-06-2015, 17:26
Always makes me grin when the old "he must be cheating" comment comes out when someone just isn't fast enough to get near the top times.

Not sure I've set a time on Oulton International, but as at last night I had the record for Fosters with the Escort with a 1:10.0 and during a race last night managed a 1:09.5 after dialling a bit of understeer out.

I can assure you I wasn't cheating and really wouldn't know how if I wanted to.
One thing is for sure, in order to get to these times, you must work at experimenting with your setups.

So rather than whinging about people cheating, get out there and do what it takes to improve your setup and set quicker lap times.

He was talking about driving on a different track than his favorite, hence the "cheating" reference. Nobody's accusing anybody of anything (yet) :)

ManWithNoMouth
02-06-2015, 19:59
Finally had another go at brands. Raced against my old ghost car and my god, what a pleasure that was. A scruffy lap but with my gear shifting at the right time I was walking away from my old ghost and knocked a second off my old time! P1 for now but I can't imagine it'll last. Will see how I get on at the others!

And I would never accuse anyone of cheating because I can't match a time, I've been in this game for 15 years and raced against Greger Huttu enough times to know anything is possible ;)

David Semperger
02-06-2015, 20:30
Have you tried maxing out the wastegate pressure? That will give the car much more power. It's not maxed out by default, because when mechanical damage is enabled the high pressure can kill the engine in a few laps. This goes for all cars with turbos. Normally you can use maximum power for a few laps, but for races you have to be more conservative, or alternatively you can disable mechanical damage.

MULTIVITZ
02-06-2015, 20:42
I've put my setup I did on here, its tuned for the ring, but its not too bad anywhere. Its one of my first attempts at tuning in this game, so excuse the axle tramp! I was thrashing the Ai in it on 100% difficulty which is unusaul for me!

ManWithNoMouth
02-06-2015, 20:43
Wastegate pressure is locked on the escort but thanks for the suggestion.

Can consider this all solved now. The oulton park lap I thought was out of this world I just beat by 0.2 seconds now that I'm redlining my gear changes. It's remarkable how much of a difference changing gear at the right time makes in this car... I feel like such a wally for not realising earlier.

MikeyTT
02-06-2015, 20:45
Well I gave it a go and those lap times were pretty damn quick. I managed to hit P1 on the Indy after about 15 laps of really pushing on and trying different things.

And I'm really peeved about the GP times. I managed a 1:45.810 after about 25 laps, but it's not recorded the time for some stupid reason. pCars did CTD as I exited, so maybe that's it.

I recorded the time in my app for what it's worth:

205862

I'll have to wait again till the weekend now, as I'm away the rest of the week :(

If you're interested here is the Indy time:

205867

BTW: Both times were on the default setup

Sloskimo
02-06-2015, 20:55
Wastegate pressure is locked on the escort but thanks for the suggestion.

Can consider this all solved now. The oulton park lap I thought was out of this world I just beat by 0.2 seconds now that I'm redlining my gear changes. It's remarkable how much of a difference changing gear at the right time makes in this car... I feel like such a wally for not realising earlier.

I should have kept my mouth shut haha. Anyway, nice times, glad you got everything sorted.

Might have a go at those times at some point, but have my doubts anything good will come from that. Easier to drive a Sauber around the ring without crashing than an escort around Oulton :P

MikeyTT
02-06-2015, 20:55
Wastegate pressure is locked on the escort but thanks for the suggestion.

Can consider this all solved now. The oulton park lap I thought was out of this world I just beat by 0.2 seconds now that I'm redlining my gear changes. It's remarkable how much of a difference changing gear at the right time makes in this car... I feel like such a wally for not realising earlier.

Just followed your Brands GP lap. You are mighty through T1, but a little slower at the bottom of the hill as you turn left and a lot slower as you turn onto the GP circuit, but fast through the 3 right handers. I'm losing so much time there it's unreal.

ManWithNoMouth
02-06-2015, 21:06
I don't think I could get near those with the default setup, I absolutely hate it! Surely you'd dominate with a decent setup. I found I couldn't get the thing to turn in without some rigourous changes.

Lots of time left at brands hatch I feel, Sloskimo and I have already debated just how much but I think we agree there's plenty :)

David Semperger
02-06-2015, 21:10
Wastegate pressure is locked on the escort but thanks for the suggestion.

Ah right, sorry, I confused it with the Sierra Cosworth for a moment.

MikeyTT
03-06-2015, 07:48
I don't think I could get near those with the default setup, I absolutely hate it! Surely you'd dominate with a decent setup. I found I couldn't get the thing to turn in without some rigourous changes.

Lots of time left at brands hatch I feel, Sloskimo and I have already debated just how much but I think we agree there's plenty :)

For me on the default setup, I reckon there is about 6 or 7 tenths, if I get a full lap right. But I'm still losing so much through the 3 right handers of the GP circuit. With the previous top ghost on I can see it in my rearview all down the straight, but by the time I'm turning left and heading out of the GP circuit it's right on top of me again.

The GP track I've never actually driven, so I think I'm finding it harder to get right, whereas Oulton I've lapped many, many times, so the blind corners, and braking points are coming to me naturally. Maybe i'll just stay there from now on ;)

MULTIVITZ
03-06-2015, 08:37
Default=sad:apologetic: imo
Its like you're on your limit, but the cars not!
Driving them for sport is like saying 'I'm the fastest with flat tyres!'.
I just don't make sense to me. Its all good fun though.

Most race cars can out wit most people.
They get out witted because they are suprised the car did their bidding and the road changes quicker than thier reactions.
My tune is relaxing to drive if you're used to something better. imo

The tune can be found in a thread called 'post your tunes for us newbies' in the garage section. I'll replace it if it gets retuned. Thanks.
I'm posting a DTM tune later in the same place. Nothing special, just fun for career or somink.

ManWithNoMouth
03-06-2015, 10:04
Where can I find your setup multivitz?

MikeyTT
03-06-2015, 19:29
Default=sad:apologetic: imo
Its like you're on your limit, but the cars not!
Driving them for sport is like saying 'I'm the fastest with flat tyres!'.
I just don't make sense to me. Its all good fun though.

But you have to leave something on the table. No point in creating a perfect set-up from the get-go and nailing a lap that just looks unbeatable. When I need to, I'll roll up the sleeves and get a custom set-up created I'm sure. Till then I'm quite happy squeezing every ounce out of the default set-up. Bit of a challenge and good fun as you say ;)