PDA

View Full Version : Why I hate starting in the back



SmileinHD
04-06-2015, 17:16
In qualifying, I managed to get to P2 and continue on to win the 1st race, yet I messed up the second lap and unfortunately ended up starting in the back of the grid. The AI really slows me down, and if I even try to overtake they just side ram me. (Especially the one with the green livery, I hate that guy)
Here's a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPE-JWMb9o0

ROTTEN
04-06-2015, 17:18
Welcome to Formula racing.

bmanic
04-06-2015, 17:24
Umm.. that video clearly shows it was your fault. When you get such a good start and have much higher speed than somebody else (doesn't matter if it's AI or a human player) YOU are the one who has to take the proper driving line and make sure you don't crash. Sure, he may have been slow in the corner but that doesn't take the responsibility off you. Approaching from behind, at high speed, automatically should put you in a "I have to be really really careful!" mental state. Basically you just dive bombed the AI. The AI held it's line pretty much exactly as expected and you crashed into him.

Schnizz58
04-06-2015, 17:29
I'm afraid I have to agree with bmanic. I'm not sure where you thought you were going to go in that corner.

SmileinHD
04-06-2015, 17:29
Umm.. that video clearly shows it was your fault. When you get such a good start and have much higher speed than somebody else (doesn't matter if it's AI or a human player) YOU are the one who has to take the proper driving line and make sure you don't crash. Sure, he may have been slow in the corner but that doesn't take the responsibility off you. Approaching from behind, at high speed, automatically should put you in a "I have to be really really careful!" mental state. Basically you just dive bombed the AI. The AI held it's line pretty much exactly as expected and you crashed into him.

Yes, in that video I'll admit that was pretty much my fault, but shows how much I hate the back. There was another time where the driver with the green livery bloody rear-ended me and I flipped and lost all four wheels. That wasn't my fault, as I was braking correctly into the corner and he just full-speed comes ramming into me, unfortunately I couldn't get a video of it.

EDIT: I found another example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbQa0QU6QTs
That can't be my fault, right? I was going correctly in the line, and he just comes right to my side and locks on to my wheels. I couldn't have avoided that since I would have went out of the track to do so.

bmanic
04-06-2015, 18:25
That is definitely not your fault. Proper AI cockup for sure. :)

SmileinHD
04-06-2015, 18:43
I've found many instances where the AI does things like this, so I ended up lowering the difficulty to 65. Thankfully that eased up the aggression from the AI, and I was able to finish 3rd.

ciderman9000000
04-06-2015, 18:55
I think you're supposed to dislike starting from the back.

John Hargreaves
04-06-2015, 19:23
If you keep out of trouble and give it time for things to settle, maybe even up to a full lap, then start picking them off one at a time by taking a slightly different line that gives you good exit speed then I think you have a chance of a good race. I can't be certain, but if you totally stay out of turn 1 shenanigans they seem to get through better with less crashing, leaving you clear to go to work.
Back of the grid to race win is so sweet if you can set the AI to make it so it all hinges on the last few corners.

TrevorAustin
04-06-2015, 19:27
If you keep out of trouble and give it time for things to settle, maybe even up to a full lap, then start picking them off one at a time by taking a slightly different line that gives you good exit speed then I think you have a chance of a good race. I can't be certain, but if you totally stay out of turn 1 shenanigans they seem to get through better with less crashing, leaving you clear to go to work.
Back of the grid to race win is so sweet if you can set the AI to make it so it all hinges on the last few corners.

Currently attempting this at SPa on 85% and 30 racers. But is it ram off central or what. Had to give up 5 times this evening! They stick to their line on some corners wherever you are and however far in front!

Ian Bell
04-06-2015, 19:28
You drove in to him.

John Hargreaves
04-06-2015, 19:42
Currently attempting this at SPa on 85% and 30 racers. But is it ram off central or what. Had to give up 5 times this evening! They stick to their line on some corners wherever you are and however far in front!

Back to front at 85% is beyond my skills I'm afraid, I usually get part way up the grid and then have a very lonely race once I've reached my level. Matching the guy in front to a tenth lap after lap, leaving the guy behind. I can see him a couple of hundred metres up the road but I realise I have met my match.
The best online races I have had have been just like this though.

Umer Ahmad
04-06-2015, 19:57
On most tracks there are just few passing zones, learn them. You're not going to overtake anyone in a chicane. Even Lewis wont attempt to pass a Manor in EVERY corner. Like corkscrew at Seca, there's only 1-line, sometimes people even irl try to make it 2-wide, usually end in double-disaster.

LR_Se7eN
04-06-2015, 20:04
Qualifying is VERY important to get a good position in the first lap. Stay out of trouble on the first few turns and settle into the race. Then find the places that are good for overtaking. That's good racing.

But I do agree, the AI can be very blind many times.

John Hargreaves
04-06-2015, 20:09
Unless you qualify on the front row online so that eight of the cars behind can avoid using their brakes and use you instead to slow down into turn 1 :confused:

LR_Se7eN
04-06-2015, 20:10
Unless you qualify on the front row online so that eight of the cars behind can avoid using their brakes and use you instead to slow down into turn 1 :confused:

Even if you cover the inside line?

50footELVIS
04-06-2015, 20:10
Although the AI have an odd way of starting some races, (some AI bow out, but then straighten out) they get back to competitive mode.
Starting from the back of the pack, it's best to start off slowly, then work your way through.
I think too many drivers have the premise that the AI are just obstacles and try to push right through without studying their "coded" behavior.
Plus, (admit it myself) our egos will get in the way at times as we don't like losing to anyone, let alone AI.
And that will cause one to overdrive and pass when it looks possible, but the AI beg to differ.

Stay close and try not to shoot for every corner gap. There are many times an AI car will shut the door, just like an online player or one of your sim racing friends.
I think open wheel AI present more difficulty, due to side by side or tire-on-tire incidents.
Check replays to see if your move caused the contact. Intentionally bump the AI and they'll give you quite the "banger racing" you asked for.
Definitely sense what the trailing AI is doing in corners. Got a nice shunt from a Formula Gulf AI going into turn 5 (Moraine Sweep) at Road America.
Then again, I've been hit by online drivers in the same corner by misjudged late braking or thinking it was theirs... :p

At the end of the day, I think one will become a more patient/intuitive driver and find areas later in the race to pass or take advantage of AI mistakes.
I still recommend starting in the back against AI, but it will definitely require some patience.

50 cents thrown in.

John Hargreaves
04-06-2015, 20:12
Even if you cover the inside line?
Especially when you cover the inside line ;)

John Hargreaves
04-06-2015, 20:15
Although the AI have an odd way of starting some races, (some AI bow out, but then straighten out) they get back to competitive mode.
Starting from the back of the pack, it's best to start off slowly, then work your way through.
I think too many drivers have the premise that the AI are just obstacles and try to push right through without studying their "coded" behavior.
Plus, (admit it myself) our egos will get in the way at times as we don't like losing to anyone, let alone AI.
And that will cause one to overdrive and pass when it looks possible, but the AI beg to differ.

Stay close and try not to shoot for every corner gap. There are many times an AI car will shut the door, just like an online player or one of your sim racing friends.
I think open wheel AI present more difficulty, due to side by side or tire-on-tire incidents.
Check replays to see if your move caused the contact. Intentionally bump the AI and they'll give you quite the "banger racing" you asked for.
Definitely sense what the trailing AI is doing in corners. Got a nice shunt from a Formula Gulf AI going into turn 5 (Moraine Sweep) at Road America.
Then again, I've been hit by online drivers in the same corner by misjudged late braking or thinking it was theirs... :p

At the end of the day, I think one will become a more patient/intuitive driver and find areas later in the race to pass or take advantage of AI mistakes.
I still recommend starting in the back against AI, but it will definitely require some patience.

50 cents thrown in.

I think you're right there, loads of times I've had a tumble, shouted wtf only to watch the replay and reluctantly have to admit to a 50:50

TrevorAustin
04-06-2015, 20:27
You drove in to him.

Damn it you've got a GPU logger and you're watching! I knew it, conspiracy!


Back to front at 85% is beyond my skills I'm afraid, I usually get part way up the grid and then have a very lonely race once I've reached my level. Matching the guy in front to a tenth lap after lap, leaving the guy behind. I can see him a couple of hundred metres up the road but I realise I have met my match.
The best online races I have had have been just like this though.

I can do it just at Monza, at that setting, but that's literally after 50-60 hours, and starting at 50% working my way up, and only by a few seconds. But I think even if I didn't keep reversin into them (thanks Ian, lol) I would only get to about 10th or so, just aren't enough overtaking places and doing front to back, you can't tune for outright speed as you need stability too. ANd I hate tuning anyway:) It's fun though. I do wish the AI would sometimes give up when I've got the line and I'm ahead, maybe it will come or I'll have to find a way to beat them anyway.

Jiggmin1234
04-06-2015, 20:29
I know the feeling dude... I am currently doing my 2nd go at the Formula A World Championship and the AI are so annoying that it has ruined my chances for the "To Affinity & Beyond" trophy and as I am a trophy hunter I am quite annoyed :/

TrevorAustin
04-06-2015, 20:31
I think you're right there, loads of times I've had a tumble, shouted wtf only to watch the replay and reluctantly have to admit to a 50:50

no it'd always those cheating ******* AI:) or at least that's what my wife hears, lol.

At least half the time it's me doing a Verstappen, but the other half is them just sticking to their route round, literally as if I'm not there, leaping 6' in the air or flipping over and then carrying on like "nothing happened, don't know what you're talking about mate, I wasn't even involved" AS they leave me spinning in the gravel while they do 0-120 in the gravel in about 3 seconds like any world class rally driver would die to achieve.

Jiggmin1234
04-06-2015, 20:39
Starting at the back of grid at Monaco with 22 cars.... the hairpin is trouble waiting to happen xD

John Hargreaves
04-06-2015, 20:50
Just checked over on the WMD forum, and Doug and the guys are clearly still working on improving the AI, so we can still hope for future updates

kingsti
04-06-2015, 20:50
I find that if you are very very careful in the first few corners then treat the AI with utmost respect you can have some great battles. I have had occasions where I chased an AI for 3-4 laps, tried several times to get past but had to duck out before finally make a clean pass. It's a great feeling to make that pass cleanly then chase the next one down.

3800racingfool
04-06-2015, 21:07
I find that if you are very very careful in the first few corners then treat the AI with utmost respect you can have some great battles. I have had occasions where I chased an AI for 3-4 laps, tried several times to get past but had to duck out before finally make a clean pass. It's a great feeling to make that pass cleanly then chase the next one down.

I think this is what a lot of people miss on. They have it stuck in their mind that they'll make one attempt at a pass, they'll make it, and life continues. In reality a single pass can take laps to setup and execute. With multiple attempts made during that time. Patience is a vastly underrated virtue when starting from the back.

John Hargreaves
04-06-2015, 21:17
Quite often there may only be one decent passing opportunity in a lap, and you have to be in the right position to set it up, so taking 15 laps to take 20 cars cleanly is often what it takes, and even that's on 75% AI for me.

Roger Prynne
04-06-2015, 22:24
Also try and drive it like you own it and not like you stole it....;)

bmanic
05-06-2015, 00:33
You drove in to him.

Check the second video.. a few posts down. That's definitely AI going bonkers.

Bouyo
05-06-2015, 01:46
In qualifying, I managed to get to P2 and continue on to win the 1st race, yet I messed up the second lap and unfortunately ended up starting in the back of the grid. The AI really slows me down, and if I even try to overtake they just side ram me. (Especially the one with the green livery, I hate that guy)
Here's a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPE-JWMb9o0

Have to admit that I found that hilarious. Well done for crashing so so well!

SmileinHD
05-06-2015, 02:02
Have to admit that I found that hilarious. Well done for crashing so so well!

Thanks! Although a different crash I did was far more better, I lost four wheels and did a backflip :D Too bad I wasn't able to get a video of it then :/

50footELVIS
05-06-2015, 03:13
Those little open wheelers can catch some air...

https://youtu.be/w6DJ8ZOGYz0

(there's a really bad one at Brands. Look for it)

SmileinHD
05-06-2015, 03:40
Those little open wheelers can catch some air...

https://youtu.be/w6DJ8ZOGYz0

(there's a really bad one at Brands. Look for it)

That wasn't more of a crash than it was a stunt :p

321Respawn
05-06-2015, 04:36
In Simon Hodge's case it was clearly his fault and not the A.I's .