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Nubby
04-06-2015, 18:49
So my question is it really that hard to drive

First circuit on invi donington! every time i try put little bit gas, car tryes go right hard :confused: So i loose alot speed, cause i have to back off from pedal :( AI just speed up like normal so i never catch em on straight :mad:
losing grip is affected only lower gears 1,2,3

i like the challenge when all is equal but seems AI wont suffer this at all

Cheers Nub

Megalomanic87
04-06-2015, 19:04
This car is like driving on ice with greasy tyres on rollerblades, with bricks on your feet.

Cannot get along with it, AT ALL!

bc525
04-06-2015, 19:10
Okay, now I'm curious about the Lotus 98. I haven't tried this car yet, but I'll have to take this beast out for some hot laps and see if I can keep her pointed in the right direction.

ARusling
04-06-2015, 19:13
Okay, now I'm curious about the Lotus 98. I haven't tried this car yet, but I'll have to take this beast out for some hot laps and see if I can keep her pointed in the right direction.

Word of advice: Don't.

The turbo lag in that car is awful and the car is impossible to drive at speed in the wet. You can imagine how happy I was to finish the championship for it in Career.

John Hargreaves
04-06-2015, 19:14
It does teach you to be smooth or you will die

bc525
04-06-2015, 19:17
I'll be very gentle. I promise.

Megalomanic87
04-06-2015, 19:28
I'll be very gentle. I promise.

I've heard that from the missus before, that never ended well either.

Hellbringer
04-06-2015, 19:32
Turn the boost all the way to the left (lowest)

This will help a lot with your throttle control when running no TCS

John Hargreaves
04-06-2015, 19:34
And wherever possible, choose a gear that keeps the revs high so the turbo is going all the time

Machinist90
04-06-2015, 19:40
turn down LSD/LSA and see if that helps

Nubby
04-06-2015, 20:06
will try things what been suggest here. cheers for reply :cool:
If still same next race i just abandon it and continue with formula rookie ;)


tryed next race at Zolder

turning LSD/LSA all the way left helped a lot, still wheelspins but not trying push car to either side.
Turning turbo to left solved wheel spinning, so all cool now car is good to drive thanks Machinist90 & Hellbringer for tips

Nub ;)

GRTfast
04-06-2015, 20:27
It's a handful, but running a clean fast lap with it will make you giggle.

Doug914
05-06-2015, 13:20
I've been working on a stiffer carcass for this car as I too am in the camp of it being a bit on the sloppy and too hard to get under control side. It will still try to kill you :), but it makes more sense now to me. Better turnin, better throttle control ...You shouldn't have to turn down the default power to make it mostly drivable as that was the race settings for back then.

Anyway give me yay or nay votes on it and I'll consider including it the patch *after* 1.4.

Machinist90
05-06-2015, 13:54
will try things what been suggest here. cheers for reply :cool:
If still same next race i just abandon it and continue with formula rookie ;)


tryed next race at Zolder

turning LSD/LSA all the way left helped a lot, still wheelspins but not trying push car to either side.
Turning turbo to left solved wheel spinning, so all cool now car is good to drive thanks Machinist90 & Hellbringer for tips

Nub ;)

you're welcome,it's such a nice car to drive when you can handle it,it's not supereasy but at least you can keep it under control ;)

xxBENxx
05-06-2015, 13:59
So my question is it really that hard to drive

First circuit on invi donington! every time i try put little bit gas, car tryes go right hard :confused: So i loose alot speed, cause i have to back off from pedal :( AI just speed up like normal so i never catch em on straight :mad:
losing grip is affected only lower gears 1,2,3

i like the challenge when all is equal but seems AI wont suffer this at all

Cheers Nub

adjust your gearing so you change 1st, 2nd, 3rd gears really quickly, also have a long 4th gear, its one of them cars that needs to be in the highest gear as quick as possible.

Invincible
05-06-2015, 14:01
Yay! A little bit more control on this beast won't do any harm.

(Naysayers gonna naysay)

myropa
05-06-2015, 14:16
Please do. I know that those who drove it in competition back in the day were uncommonly gifted. But it was shockingly frightening to think that they were that much better than I could ever approach. I actually wondered why more of them weren't killed.

Would be interesting to have a type 25 to compare. Oops. Guess I will put that in the wish list.

DONE

ermo
05-06-2015, 15:10
Yay! A little bit more control on this beast won't do any harm.

(Naysayers gonna naysay)

Nay I say
No Way I say
Go Ahead m'kay
and MAKE MY DAY -- Let's PLAY!


(It sounded great when I recited that to myself. YMMV)

bc525
05-06-2015, 15:18
Anyway give me yay or nay votes on it and I'll consider including it the patch *after* 1.4.

Yay.

KkDrummer
05-06-2015, 15:19
I've been working on a stiffer carcass for this car as I too am in the camp of it being a bit on the sloppy and too hard to get under control side. It will still try to kill you :), but it makes more sense now to me. Better turnin, better throttle control ...You shouldn't have to turn down the default power to make it mostly drivable as that was the race settings for back then.

Anyway give me yay or nay votes on it and I'll consider including it the patch *after* 1.4.

patch it! =]

AdM1
05-06-2015, 15:24
Aww I like the fact its hard to drive, makes it more challenging and satisfying when you get it right.

That said full boost + rain = impossible for me on a pad lol.

David Semperger
05-06-2015, 15:27
I've been working on a stiffer carcass for this car as I too am in the camp of it being a bit on the sloppy and too hard to get under control side. It will still try to kill you :), but it makes more sense now to me. Better turnin, better throttle control ...You shouldn't have to turn down the default power to make it mostly drivable as that was the race settings for back then.

Anyway give me yay or nay votes on it and I'll consider including it the patch *after* 1.4.

Yay!

transfix
05-06-2015, 15:57
You got watch when the revs hit 7000. It will explode on you so I have managed to control the beast by shifting just as it is about to do so. Much more control.

gmspromo
05-06-2015, 16:18
I've been working on a stiffer carcass for this car as I too am in the camp of it being a bit on the sloppy and too hard to get under control side. It will still try to kill you :), but it makes more sense now to me. Better turnin, better throttle control ...You shouldn't have to turn down the default power to make it mostly drivable as that was the race settings for back then.

Anyway give me yay or nay votes on it and I'll consider including it the patch *after* 1.4.

BIG "yay" Pretty please ...

Jezza819
05-06-2015, 16:34
Yay for me as well although I can drive the 98 a heck of a lot easier than I can the 72. That thing is just impossible.

SpeedLimitUnknown
05-06-2015, 16:46
Nice onboard video of the real Lotus 98

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWUo-IP1cec

Nubby
05-06-2015, 17:56
Yay :D

Doug914
05-06-2015, 20:28
Yay for me as well although I can drive the 98 a heck of a lot easier than I can the 72. That thing is just impossible.

The 72d will much better to drive in the 1.4 patch. See the notes if your're interested

Doug914
05-06-2015, 20:32
The other option is to just create another tire leaving the original so you can choose.

David Semperger
05-06-2015, 20:32
The 72d will much better to drive in the 1.4 patch. See the notes if your're interested

Was the 72D change mostly setup related or was there an underlying problem with it? In the past when people complained how hard it is to drive I always found that it fairly easy to tame with a few tweaks.


The other option is to just create another tire leaving the original so you can choose.

I don't think having more options would hurt.

bmanic
05-06-2015, 20:35
If it's only a tiny subtle change, then yay! from me. However, please don't change it too much.. it is supposed to be difficult to drive!!! Besides, as I recall, the default setup is not optimal at all.. there are ways to make it a lot easier to drive (some suggested here already) and it's also a car that you have to drive very differently to anything else. It has a clear learning curve, or rather an "understanding" curve. Once you get it, you'll be smiling.

Doug914
05-06-2015, 20:36
RE: the Lotus 72d. Main problem was the grip sensitivity to being under temp was overdone, which carried all the way through to optimum. So the optimum grip was never realized,,and window was very narrow. I also put the stock setup closer to what i posted in one of the threads on the car.

bmanic
05-06-2015, 20:37
The other option is to just create another tire leaving the original so you can choose.

Again, it all depends on how much you changed the tires.. if it's a big difference then please add it as a second tire choice (and make it default) but if it's a subtle change then replace the old tire to minimize confusion.

Doug914
05-06-2015, 20:49
If it's only a tiny subtle change, then yay! from me. However, please don't change it too much.. it is supposed to be difficult to drive!!! Besides, as I recall, the default setup is not optimal at all.. there are ways to make it a lot easier to drive (some suggested here already) and it's also a car that you have to drive very differently to anything else. It has a clear learning curve, or rather an "understanding" curve. Once you get it, you'll be smiling.

The biggest problem i have with it is it just feels sloppy on the tires. And the turn-in isn't convincing to me. The way it accepts the power is an artifact of that. Tightening up the carcass gives you a bit more warning of exactly when it will kill you :)

AdM1
05-06-2015, 22:28
My best attempt at driving it after a few tweeks, max boost. Bit messy but that's probably due to me as I'm still learning. All aids off with a pad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUh7WfY1-u8

mister dog
05-06-2015, 23:25
I tried the '72 on Watkins Glen, each time i drove up the straight after the esses, it felt like there was a banana peel laying on the floor where you have the slight kink towards the right (beginning of the straight). The car would just break away with the slightest of steering inputs and plant itself in the barrier. Tried some setup work with the springs/dampers and LSD but after that it was barely driveable for one lap without having an accident.
Glad to hear it's going to be better with 1.4.

You have made me curious about the 98T now, will try it and come back to vote :)

bmanic
06-06-2015, 00:52
The biggest problem i have with it is it just feels sloppy on the tires. And the turn-in isn't convincing to me. The way it accepts the power is an artifact of that. Tightening up the carcass gives you a bit more warning of exactly when it will kill you :)

Well you know my opinion when it comes to turn-in. More is always better! Much more is always much better! :D

I say go for it! Dump the old tire.. keep it simple. :)

mister dog
06-06-2015, 01:50
Well you know my opinion when it comes to turn-in. More is always better! Much more is always much better! :D

I say go for it! Dump the old tire.. keep it simple. :)

Ok I tried the 98T and for the life of me i can't see why people say there isn't enough turn in and the car behaves erratically.

Are we sure this is not something wheel dependant because on my CSR it feels pretty much perfect. Turn in is easy (too easy even), and you only have to watch out before the boost kicks in but even then the car is controllable.

For the record i'm driving on Pro mode so all assists off. Please check out if this is something wheel related before this car loses it's testicles and it's soul.

Nay!

AC's version was more of a handfull than this. Feels pretty much spot on in PCARS already.

Nubby
06-06-2015, 07:30
Ok I tried the 98T and for the life of me i can't see why people say there isn't enough turn in and the car behaves erratically.

Are we sure this is not something wheel dependant because on my CSR it feels pretty much perfect. Turn in is easy (too easy even), and you only have to watch out before the boost kicks in but even then the car is controllable.

For the record i'm driving on Pro mode so all assists off. Please check out if this is something wheel related before this car loses it's testicles and it's soul.

Nay!

AC's version was more of a handfull than this. Feels pretty much spot on in PCARS already.


Turn in never was problem, least not for me anyway.
It was car trying go right hard!! when trying accelerate i had to back off pedal everytime. that made ai just win every time on straight.
tweeking LSD/LSA did remove that sudden pull on right (still doing it it but not as hard ) so i don't loose every straight vs AI
tweeking turbo did stop pulling completely (wheelspining) but then i had no power on straight

so i ended left turbo as it is and i had a blast racing with 98T ;)

mkstatto
06-06-2015, 11:03
I'm a nay, I love how its hard to drive. Crank the boost up and change up early from 1st or second gears, get the car pointed in the right direction before the corner and keep the revs high. So much fun to drive, its very much my fav car at the moment.

Ixoye56
06-06-2015, 22:36
Please give us an opportunity to drive all the vintage cars with modern tires.

mister dog
06-06-2015, 22:44
Please give us an opportunity to drive all the vintage cars with modern tires.
I'm curious, why would you want to do that? It will take all the character out of them. Too much grip can be boring.

Disposable_Hero
06-06-2015, 23:13
Please give us an opportunity to drive all the vintage cars with modern tires.
It's called vintage for a reason:)

bc525
07-06-2015, 01:54
Well, last night I spent a free practice session at Road America and a Time Trial at Spa-Francorchamps with the Renault Lotus 98T, and wow, this is definitely a very unique car. That violent turbo boost hit really makes it tough to maintain the back end of the car. It demands throttle control and it demands that you invest the time to understand how it reacts to inputs. Gotta adapt to this car or it will it punish. Fair to say that I've quickly developed a love/hate relationship with this car.

For the record, the quickest clean lap times that I was able to manage in the Lotus 98T were:
Road America - 01:55:758
Spa - 02:01:897

I don't want to even think about racing this car in the rain. That's a scary proposition.

Ixoye56
07-06-2015, 13:37
I'm curious, why would you want to do that? It will take all the character out of them. Too much grip can be boring.

It is only conservative Englishmen who would drive these cars on the original tires :rolleyes:

Flanimal
07-06-2015, 20:07
It is only conservative Englishmen who would drive these cars on the original tires :rolleyes:
So, by the same token, it would be interesting to put vintage tyres on a Porsche 911 GT3?
No, it gives us a chance to drive a period car and appreciate how skilled and crazy drivers like Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart et al were...