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mister dog
05-06-2015, 12:21
I've been following F1 since 1992 and i can't bring myself to watch a race anymore.
The cars are ugly, the engines sound like crap, the tracks are Tilkedromes in countries were nobody is bothered about the sport, technology is specced so there isn't much difference in engineering going on, the passing moves are artificial due to DRS, grid boys now instead of grid girls :D...

Then the FIA re-introduces somes rules they already banned years ago again, trying to make things attractive but failing miserably like always.

Do you still care much for the sport, do you feel the same? Or do you actually prefer todays F1 over the old days?

FA RACING 01
05-06-2015, 12:32
I'm from the Nigel Mansell / Schumacher era and nothing in today's F1 can even closely compare to what it was in those days. I still watch it, but more for the show it became than for it being motorsport.

As for the pit boys, gender or no gender issue, it sucks. As Jessica Walter said somewhere on this forum, one needs to smell the roses from time to time.

Mr Akina
05-06-2015, 15:42
I'm from the Nigel Mansell / Schumacher era and nothing in today's F1 can even closely compare to what it was in those days. I still watch it, but more for the show it became than for it being motorsport.

I'm the same era, but without the rose-tinted glasses of yesteryear; it was rare for anyone outside of the top 3-4 drivers to finish on the lead lap and only half of the cars would cross the finish line. The main reason it seemed better is because the cars were less reliable, the back half of the grid weren't as good and the teams were less professional... None of these are really positives and they are the reasons why there's no easy answer to making it more entertaining these days.

The only reason they are talking about re-introducing refuelling is because it adds another element for something to go wrong and spice up the racing. You may as well suggest the cars drop bananas and fire red shells.

They should introduce an oval to the schedule :)

TrevorAustin
05-06-2015, 15:45
Interesting point, I hadn't missed a race for maybe 25 years until about 18 months ago. Then just lost interest, but very little happens anymore and the whole atmosphere has become stale.

bc525
05-06-2015, 15:54
I still watch every F1 race on tv, but I haven't attended an F1 race in person in about 9 years.

If I was more interested I'd be at the Canadian GP this weekend in Montreal, or the US GP at COTA later on - but the sport just doesn't have the same pull as it did a few years ago for me. Plus I really miss the sound of the V8's, these V6 turbo hybrids just don't cut it for Formula 1.

TrevorAustin
05-06-2015, 15:55
I still watch every F1 race on tv, but I haven't attended an F1 race in person in about 9 years.

If I was more interested I'd be at the Canadian GP this weekend in Montreal, or the US GP at COTA later on - but the sport just doesn't have the same pull as it did a few years ago for me. Plus I really miss the sound of the V8's, these V6 turbo hybrids just don't cut it for Formula 1.

They are trying to fix the sound for next season, but there's more wrong than that.

Pink_650S
05-06-2015, 15:59
I can agree 100% with Mister Dog.
I'm following the F1 since 1998 and l think its currently at its lowest point.
Kind of stated my sight on things in the other F1 thread already, mister dog names important points.
The excitement has gone somehow, you can almost predict each Grand Prix, very few surprises overall. I almost fell asleep during the Monaco GP if it wasnt for clumsy Max Verstappen.

The F1 needs to lower costs, loosen the rules and go back to their roots. Go back to actual and historical racetracks in countries where motorsport is being appreciated. The cars are so safe these days, you dont need 500m escape routes, (i.e. Kubica in Canada)
There are countless big and little things that take from the excitement of this sport.
Thats my biggest issue with the Formula 1 at the moment.

Rant Mode: [OFF]

Invincible
05-06-2015, 16:00
Ecclestone. That's what's wrong.
The money distribution. The engines. And even more than that. There are too many and too strict rules. They should bring back 3.5 L V12 engines and no fuel restriction. 2 cm wider tires and remove those stupid height restrictions for the car noses.

Im Sorry
05-06-2015, 16:05
I've been following F1 since 1992 and i can't bring myself to watch a race anymore.
The cars are ugly, the engines sound like crap, the tracks are Tilkedromes in countries were nobody is bothered about the sport, technology is specced so there isn't much difference in engineering going on, the passing moves are artificial due to DRS, grid boys now instead of grid girls :D...

Then the FIA re-introduces somes rules they already banned years ago again, trying to make things attractive but failing miserably like always.

Do you still care much for the sport, do you feel the same? Or do you actually prefer todays F1 over the old days?

Have to say.I was a massive f1 fan up until this season.I will watch any Motorsport including Moto gp but this year I seem to have lost nearly all interest in f1 but can't seem to put my finger on why!

LADY GEMMA JANE
05-06-2015, 16:05
I'm not a lover of F1

cluck
05-06-2015, 16:07
I stopped watching it when the BBC stopped broadcasting every race live (I tried to watch it on the commercial channel it first moved to - ITV - but the adverts often spoiled the party :( ). Even though some races are on the BBC, I just can't be bothered to watch them. Things like KERS and DRS just add an extra reason to not watch.

FMS
05-06-2015, 16:13
Aye, it's fairly nauseating isn't it: the embodiment of the zeitgeist.

Invincible
05-06-2015, 16:14
What also bugs me in F1: the drivers of past generations were icons, heroes, men with balls of steel.
Think of Lauda, Hill, Hunt, Villeneuve and so on. They were partying, had orgies, were edgy, politically incorrect. But they were irreplaceable. They had character.

And nowadays? Trained, greasy athletes/monkeys - mere marketing machines who aren't allowed to say what they think.... Disgusting!

Black_Gold_Saw
05-06-2015, 16:18
Next year (2016) double exhaust sytem that needs to bring back the traditional F1 sound.

Also not sure if 2016 or 2017, but refuelling will get back too, so that means drivers can push harder on tires.

Before I forget: how 'bout Max Verstappen, i mean he brings back good old motorsport racing.
The kid knows how to overtake. And has serious talent!. From multiple Karting Champion (different classes), F3 he became 3rd is overal driver championship. And already in F1 now.

RetroNooB
05-06-2015, 16:19
I started following Formula one in 1985/6, watching Senna catch Prost at 3 sec a lap in heavy rain round Monaco in a Toleman (equivalent of marussia today) was the hook for me, the sport was dangerous then and that was one of the excitment factors, however everything started to change after Imola 1994 with the death of Roland Ratzenberger on the saturday during qualifying, aswell as the near death accident of Rubens Barrichello in the same session, then during the race on the sunday the death of Ayrton Senna at Tamburello, due to this unfotunate weekend the sport went into massive safety changes and new regulations imposed by the FIA, thus the sport has become what it is today, personally I feel the saftey aspect has gone too far and is ruining the sport, but nothing will change while Bernie Ecclestone is running the show.

RetroNooB
05-06-2015, 16:25
Next year (2016) double exhaust sytem that needs to bring back the traditional F1 sound.

Also not sure if 2016 or 2017, but refuelling will get back too, so that means drivers can push harder on tires.

Before I forget: how 'bout Max Verstappen, i mean he brings back good old motorsport racing.
The kid knows how to overtake. And has serious talent!. From multiple Karting Champion (different classes), F3 he became 3rd is overal driver championship. And already in F1 now.

Perhaps more fresh new drivers will reignite the sport, theres several drivers on the grid atm due to retire, this could be the key to an F1 revival

Edroh De Nornal
05-06-2015, 16:40
I'm from the Ayrton Senna's era and yes, F1 is becoming crap and boring in each race

-The v6 sound like a fart machine.

-It's a funny fact, the cars can't go more than 330 Km/h (2005mph) in straights, but have the HP and the aceleration to reach higher speeds

-The cars looks like aliens. I never though to say it but I like more the new Indy cars than F1 cars.

-The tracks are boring. there's no challenge in the tracks.

-It is unforgivable what F1 do to some iconic tracks like Hockenheim, Imola, Mexico, etcetera. The excuse for the change of long straights or put chicanes before turns is " the high speeds" WTF!?!?!?!? are you kidding me bro!?!?! you are in a fast car built it to go FAST. If F1 are affraid of speed, well change the cars for Piaggios, problem solved.

but what really give me stomach acidity is, most of the time, the entire race lessens & solves in the pits WTF?

I don't like when the F1 is run by guys who know nothing about races and are more interested in money.

apexatspeed
05-06-2015, 16:45
I've been following F1 since 1992 and i can't bring myself to watch a race anymore.
The cars are ugly, the engines sound like crap, the tracks are Tilkedromes in countries were nobody is bothered about the sport, technology is specced so there isn't much difference in engineering going on, the passing moves are artificial due to DRS, grid boys now instead of grid girls :D...

Then the FIA re-introduces somes rules they already banned years ago again, trying to make things attractive but failing miserably like always.

Do you still care much for the sport, do you feel the same? Or do you actually prefer todays F1 over the old days?

1.) The cars are ugly is an opinion. I agree, but that doesn't make F1 dead
2.) The engines sound like crap. That is an opinion that I 100% can not agree with. They sound different, but don't sound like crap. Just because they don't cause hearing damage from 300 yards doesn't mean they sound like crap. Have you heard the V6 Turbo Hybrids in person?
3.) This Tikedrome nonsense is always reoccuring. The majority of the tilke tracks are an pretty good in my opinion. Just because the drivers don't have a concrete wall at the end of every corner doesn't make the tracks are bad. Quite a few of the Tilke tracks have pretty cool elevation changes.
4.) Countries where nobody bothered about the sport. Other than Korea the turn outs are pretty decent. Do you want to compare the Sepang or Shanghai race to the last German GP?
5.) The technology is specced is just wrong. There are huge differences in engineering. Go look out how the turbos are laid out between the different engines. Yes they all require a V6, turbocharging, and hybrid system, but all the engine suppliers go about it in different ways and I think that is pretty cool.
6.) How does DRS make it artificial? That doesn't even make sense.
7.) Grid boys instead of grid girls isn't even a thing. They had them at ONE race along with girls. As someone who can't bring themselves to watch you sure either watched the Monaco GP or you're still reading about F1.
8.) So you are mad at what the FIA have done to "ruin" F1, but then you call them failures when they try to make it back the way it was:rolleyes:. This makes the least sense out of everything you wrote.

You talk about watching during the Schumacher era. I can predict half those races. Schumacher won the race that one weekend in a Ferrari.

Yes I still care about the sport and F1 has been glorious in all its years for different reasons. (except the tire debacle at the USGP)

http://33.media.tumblr.com/b49408163b5ead7e2eb1e2a0247d072b/tumblr_nmpmssUDXm1tiz9emo2_400.gif

RetroNooB
05-06-2015, 16:50
I'm from the Ayrton Senna's era and yes, F1 is becoming crap and boring in each race

-The v6 sound like a fart machine.

-It's a funny fact, the cars can't go more than 330 Km/h (2005mph) in straights, but have the HP and the aceleration to reach higher speeds

-The cars looks like aliens. I never though to say it but I like more the new Indy cars than F1 cars.

-The tracks are boring. there's no challenge in the tracks.

-It is unforgivable what F1 do to some iconic tracks like Hockenheim, Imola, Mexico, etcetera. The excuse for the change of long straights or put chicanes before turns is " the high speeds" WTF!?!?!?!? are you kidding me bro!?!?! you are in a fast car built it to go FAST. If F1 are affraid of speed, well change the cars for Piaggios, problem solved.

but what really give me stomach acidity is, most of the time, the entire race lessens & solves in the pits WTF?

I don't like when the F1 is run by guys who know nothing about races and are more interested in money.

Thing is Ayrton Senna's era was also V6 Turbo but its the Hybrid that spoils the sound of the current gen, plus FIA regulations on max decibels which is horsecrap tbh as it has taken the romance away from the sport

Mr Akina
05-06-2015, 17:07
It's a funny fact, the cars can't go more than 330 Km/h (2005mph) in straights, but have the HP and the aceleration to reach higher speeds

That's a downforce versus top speed issue. You can't have both. So corner speed will always win. Plus, higher top speed = bigger run off areas.

Driver safety is the #1 concern with new (and old) tracks. So get used to big paved areas around the track. Cars stop quicker (or safer) on asphalt than they do in gravel or on grass. Money rules and classic tracks can't afford the races. Many great circuits have been lost over the years; and they will continue to drop off the calendar.

The big problem with F1 is that the cars can't get close enough to each other because of the aero regulations (this brought the need for DRS). IndyCar (Dallara) have done a bit better with their design, but it's not to everyone's taste. I'm not ever sure you can design a fast open wheel car without the turbulence that ruins the racing.

apexatspeed
05-06-2015, 17:13
It's a funny fact, the cars can't go more than 330 Km/h (2005mph) in straights, but have the HP and the aceleration to reach higher speeds.

This is 100% baby back bull shit. Go look at the 2014 Monza trap speeds. You absolutely don't know what you are talking about, yet you are bashing guys running the show not knowing about racing. Ricciardo had a trap speed of 362 kph (224 mph). What you said isn't a fun fact it is just horse shit.

GT_Racing
05-06-2015, 17:21
This is 100% baby back bull shit. Go look at the 2014 Monza trap speeds. You absolutely don't know what you are talking about, yet you are bashing guys running the show not knowing about racing. Ricciardo had a trap speed of 362 kph (224 mph). What you said isn't a fun fact it is just horse shit.

This is why you dont look to non-F1 places for F1 discussion. There are a lot of brainless people who know nothing about what they are talking about but just keep spouting shit.

Edroh De Nornal
05-06-2015, 17:24
Thing is Ayrton Senna's era was also V6 Turbo but its the Hybrid that spoils the sound of the current gen, plus FIA regulations on max decibels which is horsecrap tbh as it has taken the romance away from the sport

Ayrton Senna era was not only V6, also was V8's, V10's, and V12's And all these engines sounded with attitude. Not like today the 2015 V6 sounds like fart machines. there is a big difference.

Ryno917
05-06-2015, 17:30
I'm not ever sure you can design a fast open wheel car without the turbulence that ruins the racing.

Remove the wings. Make the cars vastly less reliant on aero downforce and the racing will improve. Period.


#BringBackThe60s

Invincible
05-06-2015, 17:38
They should make a new formula with the Red Bull X2010 from GT. With better sound than GT. ;)

Pink_650S
05-06-2015, 17:54
1.) The cars are ugly is an opinion. I agree, but that doesn't make F1 dead
2.) The engines sound like crap. That is an opinion that I 100% can not agree with. They sound different, but don't sound like crap. Just because they don't cause hearing damage from 300 yards doesn't mean they sound like crap. Have you heard the V6 Turbo Hybrids in person?
3.) This Tikedrome nonsense is always reoccuring. The majority of the tilke tracks are an pretty good in my opinion. Just because the drivers don't have a concrete wall at the end of every corner doesn't make the tracks are bad. Quite a few of the Tilke tracks have pretty cool elevation changes.
4.) Countries where nobody bothered about the sport. Other than Korea the turn outs are pretty decent. Do you want to compare the Sepang or Shanghai race to the last German GP?
5.) The technology is specced is just wrong. There are huge differences in engineering. Go look out how the turbos are laid out between the different engines. Yes they all require a V6, turbocharging, and hybrid system, but all the engine suppliers go about it in different ways and I think that is pretty cool.
6.) How does DRS make it artificial? That doesn't even make sense.
7.) Grid boys instead of grid girls isn't even a thing. They had them at ONE race along with girls. As someone who can't bring themselves to watch you sure either watched the Monaco GP or you're still reading about F1.
8.) So you are mad at what the FIA have done to "ruin" F1, but then you call them failures when they try to make it back the way it was:rolleyes:. This makes the least sense out of everything you wrote.

You talk about watching during the Schumacher era. I can predict half those races. Schumacher won the race that one weekend in a Ferrari.

Yes I still care about the sport and F1 has been glorious in all its years for different reasons. (except the tire debacle at the USGP)




To me, you seem like someone that cant accept opinions that differ from your own.
The question was "Is Formula One dead?", yet all you do is trying to prove others wrong, instead of telling us why you think its not dead.
You get very passively aggressive everytime someone says something about your holy sport you dont agree with.
Although its quite obvious that the F1 is not in a good shape.

jimmyb_84
05-06-2015, 17:57
Interesting point, I hadn't missed a race for maybe 25 years until about 18 months ago. Then just lost interest, but very little happens anymore and the whole atmosphere has become stale.

Me too but not quite 25yrs more 10, I just lost interest too and now follow every second on the World Endurance Championship (WEC) much better by miles.

mister dog
05-06-2015, 18:04
1.) The cars are ugly is an opinion. I agree, but that doesn't make F1 dead
2.) The engines sound like crap. That is an opinion that I 100% can not agree with. They sound different, but don't sound like crap. Just because they don't cause hearing damage from 300 yards doesn't mean they sound like crap. Have you heard the V6 Turbo Hybrids in person?
3.) This Tikedrome nonsense is always reoccuring. The majority of the tilke tracks are an pretty good in my opinion. Just because the drivers don't have a concrete wall at the end of every corner doesn't make the tracks are bad. Quite a few of the Tilke tracks have pretty cool elevation changes.
4.) Countries where nobody bothered about the sport. Other than Korea the turn outs are pretty decent. Do you want to compare the Sepang or Shanghai race to the last German GP?
5.) The technology is specced is just wrong. There are huge differences in engineering. Go look out how the turbos are laid out between the different engines. Yes they all require a V6, turbocharging, and hybrid system, but all the engine suppliers go about it in different ways and I think that is pretty cool.
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/1e/1e48392d8df59bcfbc11f7decbcac7a1155839151e5fece526e011d44ccd468e.jpg



6.) How does DRS make it artificial? That doesn't even make sense.
No? Car behind can open his wing and get a huge advantage whilst the car in front is a sitting duck, that seems like a natural overtaking move to you? :rolleyes:


7.) Grid boys instead of grid girls isn't even a thing. They had them at ONE race along with girls. As someone who can't bring themselves to watch you sure either watched the Monaco GP or you're still reading about F1.
It was in the news... And if you were able to understand smilies you would have understood that wasn't to be taken serious. And yes, people that are interested in motorsports might read an article about F1 once in a while. That doesn't mean i'm a fan of what's going on.


8.) So you are mad at what the FIA have done to "ruin" F1, but then you call them failures when they try to make it back the way it was:rolleyes:. This makes the least sense out of everything you wrote.
I don't know how long you've been following F1, but they introduced refueling in '94, then banned it to 'up the excitement' as the pit stop strategies became too important, and now they bring it back as it will 'up the excitement' again? Calling that indecisive and a silly rule that's not going to change much sure makes sense to me. And that's just one example. Remember grooved tyres?



You talk about watching during the Schumacher era. I can predict half those races. Schumacher won the race that one weekend in a Ferrari.
Like i said in the OP, started watching in '92 when Senna was still alive, Schumacher only went to Ferrari in 1996 and still Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen ans Alonso were able to break his power and became WC. And all of this in cars that were exciting and a joy to watch and hear. Also how does that make the Vettel/ Hamilton era any better?

Edroh De Nornal
05-06-2015, 18:05
That's a downforce versus top speed issue. You can't have both. So corner speed will always win. Plus, higher top speed = bigger run off areas.

Driver safety is the #1 concern with new (and old) tracks. So get used to big paved areas around the track. Cars stop quicker (or safer) on asphalt than they do in gravel or on grass. Money rules and classic tracks can't afford the races. Many great circuits have been lost over the years; and they will continue to drop off the calendar.

The big problem with F1 is that the cars can't get close enough to each other because of the aero regulations (this brought the need for DRS). IndyCar (Dallara) have done a bit better with their design, but it's not to everyone's taste. I'm not ever sure you can design a fast open wheel car without the turbulence that ruins the racing.

yes i know
yes driver safety i'm ok with that , i'm not refer to the big paved areas tha is necessary. i was wondering how unsafety can be the 4 straighs of the old Hockenheim circuit, for example.


This is 100% baby back bull shit. Go look at the 2014 Monza trap speeds. You absolutely don't know what you are talking about, yet you are bashing guys running the show not knowing about racing. Ricciardo had a trap speed of 362 kph (224 mph). What you said isn't a fun fact it is just horse shit.
i'm sorry if offend you kiddo

didnt' know, probably because F1 becomes BORING.
and in how many races happen?


This is why you dont look to non-F1 places for F1 discussion. There are a lot of brainless people who know nothing about what they are talking about but just keep spouting shit.

tell others brainless is brainless, child

apexatspeed
05-06-2015, 18:09
To me, you seem like someone that cant accept opinions that differ from your own.
The question was "Is Formula One dead?", yet all you do is trying to prove others wrong, instead of telling us why you think its not dead.
You get very passively aggressive everytime someone says something about your holy sport you dont agree with.
Although its quite obvious that the F1 is not in a good shape.

I can accept opinions, but the reasons he sourced for why formula 1 is dead are fairly weak. I agree F1 is not in good shape. There are a lot of things wrong with it:

1. It is way too expensive.
2.The money distribution is garbage.
3. The tracks and promoters are treated like trash by FOM
4. Manor is running cars slower than half the GP2 line up
5. Bernie is strangling out high profile european tracks.

I don't regard F1 as a holy sport. What do you mean every time? I wrote one response to that guy and all of a sudden it is "every time".

GT_Racing
05-06-2015, 18:13
yes i know
yes driver safety i'm ok with that , i'm not refer to the big paved areas tha is necessary. i was wondering how unsafety can be the 4 straighs of the old Hockenheim circuit, for example.


i'm sorry if offend you kiddo

didnt' know, probably because F1 becomes BORING.
and in how many races happen?



tell others brainless is brainless, child


I am the brainless one? I didnt just make up some random number and say that is the defacto top speed of an F1 car. GTFOH.
If that is not what you are trying to say I advise rewriting that sentence, because it doesnt even make sense.

apexatspeed
05-06-2015, 18:16
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/1e/1e48392d8df59bcfbc11f7decbcac7a1155839151e5fece526e011d44ccd468e.jpg


No? Car behind can open his wing and get a huge advantage whilst the car in front is a sitting duck, that seems like a natural overtaking move to you? :rolleyes:

It was in the news... And if you were able to understand smilies you would have understood that wasn't to be taken serious. And yes, people that are interested in motorsports might read an article about F1 once in a while. That doesn't mean i'm a fan of what's going on.

I don't know how long you've been following F1, but they introduced refueling in '94, then banned it to 'up the excitement' as the pit stop strategies became too important, and now they bring it back as it will 'up the excitement' again? Calling that indecisive and a silly rule that's not going to change much sure makes sense to me. And that's just one example. Remember grooved tyres?

Like i said in the OP, started watching in '92 when Senna was still alive, Schumacher only went to Ferrari in 1996 and still Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen ans Alonso were able to break his power and became WC. And all of this in cars that were exciting and a joy to watch and hear. Also how does that make the Vettel/ Hamilton era any better?

In regards to DRS giving a person an advantage doesn't make it artificial. What on earth does having an drag reduction advantage have to do with it being artificial?

Notice that I said you could have read it in the news.

In regards to the rule changes. It doesn't make sense that you don't like the rules and then are bothered that they are trying to change them back. Refueling is useless anyway. It just causes cars to pass using pit strategies. Yes I remember when they were not allowed to run on slicks. What does that matter?

I never said the Vettel/Hamilton era was better, but I am not the one saying F1 is dead.


You can't dismiss what I said about the engineering as opinion. That is an actual fact. You never mentioned whether you have heard a 2015 F1 engine in person or addressed my comment about Sepang and Shanghai attendance vs German GP attendance. Those are not opinions.

What racing engines have you heard in person?

apexatspeed
05-06-2015, 18:18
yes i know
yes driver safety i'm ok with that , i'm not refer to the big paved areas tha is necessary. i was wondering how unsafety can be the 4 straighs of the old Hockenheim circuit, for example.


i'm sorry if offend you kiddo

didnt' know, probably because F1 becomes BORING.
and in how many races happen?



tell others brainless is brainless, child

Maybe you shouldn't just state random "fun facts" that are false. You literally pulled that out of your ass for no reason. What is the point of just making up that number? If you didn't know then don't open your mouth. You're calling others children, yet you are running around spewing nonsense like a 5 year old. Literally just making up numbers out of thin air.

Mr Akina
05-06-2015, 18:39
yes i know
yes driver safety i'm ok with that , i'm not refer to the big paved areas tha is necessary. i was wondering how unsafety can be the 4 straighs of the old Hockenheim circuit, for example.


They changed Hockenheimring because it was boring. Not unsafe.

hkraft300
05-06-2015, 19:14
F1 powertrain regulations are too restrictive. Compare it to WEC LMP1-H regs - there are V8s running with 4's and diesel 6's!

but please no diesel in F1. that's not my point. what I'd recommend is the hybridization rules to be relaxed, so F1 becomes the pinnacle of automotive technology again. the only difference nowadays is the turbo placement in the power trains... allow some innovation please! that in itself, with unproven/untested technologies, will add uncertainty and mystique to the cars, as well as the odd engine failure!

I don't think the cars look too bad this year or sound that bad (2014 was fail, although I'm curious why the cars sound so different this year than last). I don't agree with the tall narrow and deep rear wing (like the FA's in pCars). still reckon the 2002-2007 cars look fantastic.

make the cars a little wider and shorter - with the turbo+ electric torque, a shorter wheelbase will surely challenge the drivers a little more.

Bealdor
05-06-2015, 19:14
Everybody keep the discussion civil please or I'll close this thread and you'll have to discuss this topic at another forum.

Relax, it's friday.

Pink_650S
05-06-2015, 19:21
@apexatspeed: Maybe because germans and also other europeans already react to the procession-like races, by not visiting the races anymore. And people in asia maybe go to the races for a change in their everyday life and to show their wealth?
Another fact could be that the F1 is rather new to those countries and hasnt become dull yet.

TrevorAustin
05-06-2015, 19:25
Me too but not quite 25yrs more 10, I just lost interest too and now follow every second on the World Endurance Championship (WEC) much better by miles.
I'll try that i think. Pcars has got me obsessed with le mans anyway.

And 25 years, what am i thinking. I'd been watching for a few years when i watched james hunt win! So at least 40 years+ and now at the lowest its been.

mister dog
05-06-2015, 20:01
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119307

jsydave
05-06-2015, 20:09
To answer the question in the thread title - No Formula One isn't dead but it's certainly looking a bit sleepy and unwell.

There's just far too many restrictions for me. Very little room for innovation and not enough room for smaller engine manufacturers to get involved in the sport. You need some of the philosophy that is around the WEC instilled into F1.

apexatspeed
05-06-2015, 20:33
@apexatspeed: Maybe because germans and also other europeans already react to the procession-like races, by not visiting the races anymore. And people in asia maybe go to the races for a change in their everyday life and to show their wealth?
Another fact could be that the F1 is rather new to those countries and hasnt become dull yet.

I only said that because the main poster is acting like the races outside of Europe are for people who don't care about racing. Well they actually go. One of the main reasons the German GP is gone because people didn't go to the races. If the track can't make a profit there is no reason to keep bringing F1 there.

F1 isn't new in the United States, but people actually go to the USGP. F1 viewership on NBSCN has been way up compared to previous years.

jsydave
05-06-2015, 21:04
People don't go to the races because they cost too much. They cost too much because of the promoter's greed.

apexatspeed
05-06-2015, 21:05
People don't go to the races because they cost too much. They cost too much because of the promoter's greed.

Yes and people outside of Europe go to the races.

Rob Prange
05-06-2015, 21:16
It's not dead yet but it looks like it's about to lose its top position in the pecking order to the WEC.

The reason for that is simple, the series is everything F1 isn't at the moment:

- Having exciting cars with technology that is relevant to today's society
- Having approachable drivers instead of guarded marketing puppets
- Being fan friendly and affordable
- Having competitors that fight tooth to nail on track but show respect for one another once the race is over
- Having exciting racing

None of this applies to Formula One right now, that's why it's losing ground to both the WEC and Formula E, for those who like open wheelers.

Dreco
05-06-2015, 21:48
What are you gonna watch?! Your missing some great racing. I find it fascinating that using 35% less fuel, you can equal the old V8 engines power. Of course the old days were the best.

And the cars are ugly? Come on man.

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/332/286/1/S3322861/slug/l/2015-mercedes-amg-f1-w06-hybrid-02-1.jpg

And for me this is the best looking Ferrari in years!

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/features/2015/6/canada-preview---will-engine-upgrades-alter-the-balance-of-power-in-montreal-/_jcr_content/featureContent/manual_gallery/image1.img.640.medium.jpg

Robbo-92
05-06-2015, 21:48
F1 is far from dead, I've only been watching since 2009 (hence why I'm a huge fan of Button and Vettel) but I still watch as much of the coverage as possible and watch the race and pre/post race coverage avidly but it still is a great form of Motorsport that I look forwar to watching the next Grand Prix.

As for the engines I really like them, they're powerful and torque-y and I suppose they could have some relevance to road cars of the future. They don't sound bad though, granted they don't scream like the V8's did but it's still a nice noise.

This season I have really gotten into WEC, just a shame that as F1 falls on my weekend off work (well I've been able to watch most races live thus far) WEC falls on my weekend in, that means I won't be watching all of the 24 hours of Le Mans (but will catch as much as I can), the racing is great, the cars look great and are very technologically advanced.

F1 really does need changing though, the current way won't secure the future for the sport. Firstly it needs to switch the way prize money is distributed, I'm not saying it should be 100% even but it needs to be much fairer if small teams are to survive. Secondly the aero needs changing, at the moment once a car gets into another's dirty air if it can't pass it ruins it's tyres and fails to get closer again so they have to wait for the next round of stops, with the smooth nature of circuits (bar Monaco) they could try and reintroduce ground effects to keep the downforce but maybe making the racing closer. Thirdly the tyres, I loved the Bridgestone tyres, the drivers could push lap after lap, now they push and the tyres go off far too quickly.

To finish off I would hate to see refuelling return.

mister dog
05-06-2015, 22:45
And for me this is the best looking Ferrari in years!

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/features/2015/6/canada-preview---will-engine-upgrades-alter-the-balance-of-power-in-montreal-/_jcr_content/featureContent/manual_gallery/image1.img.640.medium.jpg

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/wikratts/images/5/52/C0011904-Proboscis_monkey-SPL.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120614224402

Beardybrave
05-06-2015, 22:56
It's not dead yet but it looks like it's about to lose its top position in the pecking order to the WEC.

The reason for that is simple, the series is everything F1 isn't at the moment:

- Having exciting cars with technology that is relevant to today's society
- Having approachable drivers instead of guarded marketing puppets
- Being fan friendly and affordable
- Having competitors that fight tooth to nail on track but show respect for one another once the race is over
- Having exciting racing

None of this applies to Formula One right now, that's why it's losing ground to both the WEC and Formula E, for those who like open wheelers.

I've been getting into Formula E recently. The racing is excellent, really excellent, but the noise... I just can't handle lack of engine growl. F1 makes me sad. I've watched it religiously for nearly 40 years. This is the first season where I've not been able to muster enthusiasm for it.

WTCC and rallycross on the other hand have been fantastic. Dunno if anyone else saw the wtcc round on the full 'Ring but it was spectacular. If you can find somewhere to watch it, I highly recommend any racing fan do so.

Disposable_Hero
05-06-2015, 23:41
What are you gonna watch?! Your missing some great racing. I find it fascinating that using 35% less fuel, you can equal the old V8 engines power. Of course the old days were the best.

And the cars are ugly? Come on man.

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/332/286/1/S3322861/slug/l/2015-mercedes-amg-f1-w06-hybrid-02-1.jpg

And for me this is the best looking Ferrari in years!

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/features/2015/6/canada-preview---will-engine-upgrades-alter-the-balance-of-power-in-montreal-/_jcr_content/featureContent/manual_gallery/image1.img.640.medium.jpg
I hate the rule enforced disproportions of front wing to rear wing and the nose design.
Rethink:).

206304

apexatspeed
05-06-2015, 23:52
F1 is far from dead, I've only been watching since 2009 (hence why I'm a huge fan of Button and Vettel) but I still watch as much of the coverage as possible and watch the race and pre/post race coverage avidly but it still is a great form of Motorsport that I look forwar to watching the next Grand Prix.

As for the engines I really like them, they're powerful and torque-y and I suppose they could have some relevance to road cars of the future. They don't sound bad though, granted they don't scream like the V8's did but it's still a nice noise.

This season I have really gotten into WEC, just a shame that as F1 falls on my weekend off work (well I've been able to watch most races live thus far) WEC falls on my weekend in, that means I won't be watching all of the 24 hours of Le Mans (but will catch as much as I can), the racing is great, the cars look great and are very technologically advanced.

F1 really does need changing though, the current way won't secure the future for the sport. Firstly it needs to switch the way prize money is distributed, I'm not saying it should be 100% even but it needs to be much fairer if small teams are to survive. Secondly the aero needs changing, at the moment once a car gets into another's dirty air if it can't pass it ruins it's tyres and fails to get closer again so they have to wait for the next round of stops, with the smooth nature of circuits (bar Monaco) they could try and reintroduce ground effects to keep the downforce but maybe making the racing closer. Thirdly the tyres, I loved the Bridgestone tyres, the drivers could push lap after lap, now they push and the tyres go off far too quickly.

To finish off I would hate to see refuelling return.

Well said, though some of the drivers have made the tires last a good while. Pirelli is forced into making tires that only last a short distance by the FIA and FOM. Otherwise they could make tires that could survive a lot longer.

Pappa_Stig
06-06-2015, 03:12
The only problem with F1 is FOM and Bernie. If the cash distribution was more fair the competition would be even healthier.

I find it funny to read people complaining about the lack of competition or excitement, and then bang on about the 90s as being amazing lol. I've been watching F1 since the 90s, and the most exciting racing happened between '06 and '08, and then in '10, and then the last two years. This year so far has been well above average. I understand people don't like Merc dominance, but using that as an example of why it aint like the good old days is stupid, because there has rarely ever been more than one clear top team in f1. If you don't like it, watch spec-series'. F1 is about constructor/team and driver, not just drivers.

I also find it funny when I see people complaining about F1 being boring, then say WEC is exciting, usually also complaining about the noise in F1 currently. WEC is great, but it is nowhere near as action packed as F1, and LMP1 engines are mostly far less interesting than F1, sound wise. The problem is, people watch a 20 minute recap of a WEC race and think that's what it's like for the entire 4 or 6 or whatever hours - it isn't, it's mostly cars running around well away from one another, and lots of confusing pit stop strategy deciding positions. Most of the on track passing is a higher class lapping a lower class. But it isn't meant to be exciting, it's about the technical challenges of endurance racing, which is what I like about it.

F1 these days is far closer than it used to be in the 90s. Not to mention they currently have 1.6l engines putting out around 900hp, whilst using less than 100l of fuel for a two hour race. I think they sound great, much better than the 80's turbo F1s, and they sound heaps better this year than last, so I expect them to only get better.

I saw people arguing over how slow F1 cars are now, and how WEC will soon take the mantle of fastest circuit cars, as they are so close. Then I saw a comparison video of last year's WEC championship winning car, The Toyota, and last year's slowest F1 car, the Caterham, around Spa. The Caterham was around 12 seconds per lap faster, which we all know is an eternity in racing.

Once Bernie is gone, hopefully the biggest problem with the sport will be gone with him. Other than that, I still love it as much as I ever did. I think too many people look at the past with rose tinted glasses. I enjoyed the V10 era, but only for the technology and awesome sound of the engines. The races were mostly processions, with on track passes rarely even getting into double digits lol.

Would I change anything in F1 if I could? Definitely! Do I think F1 is in any danger of losing the position of "pinnacle" of motorsports? Not a chance.

gp20
06-06-2015, 04:05
I watch the WTCC and it's more exciting even if Citroen has the best cars.
It's a competition, it's clear.

hkraft300
06-06-2015, 07:06
F1 had never been/needed to be "relevant" to road cars because innovations made in F1 made it to road cars 10-15 years later.

It was the R&D crucible for emerging automotive technology. That is its relevance. The sharp end is where F1 belongs.

The only way F1 is irrelevant is by not being the leader of automotive technology.

jsydave
06-06-2015, 08:05
Yes and people outside of Europe go to the races.....to the very heavily government subsidised ones in particular. And perhaps let's not dig into the nature of those governments.

Desopit
06-06-2015, 19:49
Motorsport is like the world. It's going upside down.

F1 is an endurance race, and endurance races are sprints...

Pink_650S
06-06-2015, 23:29
Motorsport is like the world. It's going upside down.

F1 is an endurance race, and endurance races are sprints...

Thats deep, mate.

cudirage13
07-06-2015, 01:20
I used to LOVE F1 so damn much me and my dad would wake up at 6am here in the states to watch races on Speed Channel. But as time went on and the quality of racing and competition started to drop it just got boring and stale. I still love F1 cars in general though and would love to drive one in real life.

ardic
07-06-2015, 03:09
I dont look anymore at formula 1,when Prost quit formula 1,Mansell quit and Ayrton Senna died there was no excitment in formula 1,real sensation was with this 3 guys,there was adrenalin ,there was rush ,there was joy ,when this 3 legends gone,formula 1 started to suck,Schumacher had not real opponents so yes he won so manny championschip and yet he missed 2 real drivers..There will be never that kind of calibre in Formula 1...
When senna Died Prost waited for a infitation from williams but they never invited him to drive,If Prost drived against schumacher then I watched to sea how quick was Schumacher against Prost but that never happened,Mansell came but Frank williams set him aside,too bad,we could not sea real action from this guy's against schumacher,he had couple strong drivers but not like this 3 legends so no one knows how schumacher would end up against this guys,these days manny people make stupid statement whether schumacher was quick or this 3 duo,they had couple racing but so few racing schumacher participated with these guys we cant say with sure,so yes Formula 1 sucked from 1994 ,more rules everything electronic, speed slowed down ,stupid rules,driver safety is the only good thing formula 1 has made but the rest computer aiding makes the driving...

doyley101
07-06-2015, 16:23
I only started watching in the mid/late 2000s, (think my first race was Spa 05), and even since then I think it's gone downhill. The best I can remember is around 2010/2011, when there were 6 drivers, 3 teams and 3 engines going for wins every race in Red Bulls, Ferraris and Mclarens. They all had different strengths and they (AFAIK) could ACTUALLY PUSH their tyres. Now only 2 drivers can realistically win and everyone (at least at the front) has gone back to the pre-2009 days of tracking the car ahead by 1.5-2 seconds and waiting for a pit stop.

We need to get the best drivers back in race winning cars and let them fight each other at 100%

MiZtErNiCe
07-06-2015, 23:37
F1 is gone its called Formula Fuel Save now, did you guys/girls not know? :)

GT_Racing
07-06-2015, 23:43
F1 is gone its called Formula Fuel Save now, did you guys/girls not know? :)

In which racing league do they not have to save fuel?

jgaganas
08-06-2015, 06:07
DTM/Moto GP ;)

And of course V8 Supercars!

Bealdor
08-06-2015, 06:22
F1 is gone its called Formula Fuel Save now, did you guys/girls not know? :)

Well, at least WEC shows that it's possible to implement hybrid technology, fuel management AND deliver exciting racing action.

TheDoctor46
08-06-2015, 08:44
Liked Alonso's reaction yesterday about saving fuel: No! F1 is dead? Yes, at least for me. Theres just so much more (real) motorsports available. :cool:

Pink_650S
08-06-2015, 11:20
DTM/Moto GP ;)

And of course V8 Supercars!

DTM is even worse...

Sonic6L
08-06-2015, 11:56
F1 is so boring IMO.

Raven403
08-06-2015, 12:16
F1 isnt Dead, its just not as good as it used to be, in even recent history. WEC is more exciting to watch and still emplores Hybrids and fuel saving tech, which is going to be a staple of auto racing probably forever now. With the worlds governing bodies getting more and more Eco-Driven (no pun intended) Its in F1 and all other series best interest to be Fuel Saving. F1 can be fuel saving and still be competitive and exciting, WEC is, and theres no way the Tech involved in F1 cant make that happen. They just need to bring their nose down from out of the clouds and change the focus from Oil Sheiks to Racing.

Its just a dumb yanks opinion

Olijke Poffer
08-06-2015, 12:20
I miss the sound of the old days F1 cars. My laptop fan makes even more noise than the F1 cars nowadays....

OppaErich
08-06-2015, 12:29
Well, at least 12 years ago the sound was disappointing too. Just very loud and high pitch. You're dutch, go to the next Dutch TT at Assen. These sound and feel like an elephant stomps on your chest.

Pink_650S
08-06-2015, 14:15
I miss the sound of the old days F1 cars. My laptop fan makes even more noise than the F1 cars nowadays....

Watch out for apexatspeed, he will come and ask you if you have heard one of the engines in real life yet :D

Rambo_Commando
08-06-2015, 15:02
I've been watching F1 since the days of young Michael Schumacher and the sport was amazing. I still remember Senna's last race like it was yesterday. Yes the series has changed a lot but there are some things that i like currently. The biggest one is the fact that now mid field teams, even lower end teams have a chance to win a GP. Back in the days it was only Ferrari, Williams and McLaren and Benneton with Schumacher. IMO one thing the FOM should do is tighten the operating budgets of the teams further more. For example if Marussia's operating budget is 200 million for the 2016 season then all teams should be capped at 200 million.

mister dog
08-06-2015, 15:45
Yes the series has changed a lot but there are some things that i like currently. The biggest one is the fact that now mid field teams, even lower end teams have a chance to win a GP. Back in the days it was only Ferrari, Williams and McLaren and Benneton with Schumacher.
Still the same no? http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/images/smilies/dunno_2011.gif
Only contenders at the moment are Mercedes + Ferrari and teams like Williams and RBR only have a shot should all cars of the first mentioned teams retire.

apexatspeed
08-06-2015, 17:39
Well, at least WEC shows that it's possible to implement hybrid technology, fuel management AND deliver exciting racing action.

Interestingly F1 offers all of those things in the current state. In the WEC LMP1 a private team would never make it on the podium. At least it is possible in F1.

apexatspeed
08-06-2015, 17:39
I miss the sound of the old days F1 cars. My laptop fan makes even more noise than the F1 cars nowadays....

What racecar engines have you heard in person?

Pink_650S knows how I operate.

Bealdor
08-06-2015, 17:45
Interestingly F1 offers all of those things in the current state.

It seems that you missed the "exciting racing action" part in my post.

apexatspeed
08-06-2015, 18:00
It seems that you missed the "exciting racing action" part in my post.

I guess I am the only one who thought it was exciting to watch Vettel vs Hulkenburg or Massa vs Ericcson this weekend. Maybe it wasn't exciting to watch LH battle NR at Bahrain 2014. Watching Perez doing well in Monaco was exciting. Overall I find the F1 races to be more exciting than the WEC races. I watch and enjoy both though. Exciting is different for everyone.

Bealdor
08-06-2015, 18:04
Agreed, it's definitely a matter a taste.

yusupov
08-06-2015, 18:13
it is taste. are you gonna side w/ the corporate greedbags or volkswagon, volkswagon, volkswagon & toyota? its about time the little guy stood up & thats why i hate F1

apexatspeed
08-06-2015, 18:25
it is taste. are you gonna side w/ the corporate greedbags or volkswagon, volkswagon, volkswagon & toyota? its about time the little guy stood up & thats why i hate F1

You are describing the WEC and then say that is why you hate F1. I am confused.

In F1 private teams can make it on the podium. Williams was on the podium this weekend and Red Bull won races last year.

GT_Racing
08-06-2015, 18:27
it is taste. are you gonna side w/ the corporate greedbags or volkswagon, volkswagon, volkswagon & toyota? its about time the little guy stood up & thats why i hate F1

Is this post supposed to not make sense? The amount of sense it makes is far below 0.

Maybe you should utilize the shift button on your keyboard too. It will make it a lot easier to read.

rotorrian
08-06-2015, 18:42
Restrict the cars the the dimensions of the McLaren Mp4/4.

Cars can run unlimited boost but are restricted to 3 engines with a maximum cooling size for intercooler / radiators.

In summary......

Reduce the aero, unrestricted power output, limited engines.......

Get rid of the ole coote too!

oscarolim
08-06-2015, 18:50
They should simplify the rules: 4 wheels, any type of engine would be allowed, no driving aids, no electronic (within reason) no moving aero. Should make some interesting races.

MiZtErNiCe
08-06-2015, 19:10
hamiltons engineer gave a good insight to how the race is run,"lewis you have to lift and coast 100metres before braking" lewis replies i was doing 50 metre lift and coast and engineer replies yes we were pushing and now we need to save more. so lift and coast 50metres before a brake zone is pushing? lol, F1 should be a sprint race from lights to flag.
i agree with what coulthard said, scrap the fuel saving and let them drive flat out. like it should be!

apexatspeed
08-06-2015, 19:16
They should simplify the rules: 4 wheels, any type of engine would be allowed, no driving aids, no electronic (within reason) no moving aero. Should make some interesting races.

That would make it even harder for smaller teams to survive. If they open up the regulations the teams with the largest budgets will destroy everyone. It will look like Audi in Endurance racing without Peugeot before Toyota and Porsche decided to come back.

Laurens Van Rossem
08-06-2015, 19:18
For those interested, you can join the pcars GPPredictor league here: http://gppredictor.com/league/join/code/a8041d031d4d7bb33ed42ae1aa5252b6

Robbo-92
08-06-2015, 19:55
I still think much simpler,

-longer lasting tyres, since Pirelli came back into F1 in 2011 their 2011 tyres have been the best from what I remember. The drivers could push (although not as much as the 2010 bridgestones) and the tyres went off but not suddenly as they seem to (sometimes) do now.
-aero, change the aero so ground effects are re allowed to a degree. All of the tracks (bar Monaco and maybe Albert park) are so smooth ground effects would be ideal, this also wouldn't be affected by following a car in its dirty air (or certainly not as much) allowing the attacking car to get closer to make a potential move.

I think these two things would do wonders actually, probably lots of issues implementing them that I haven't addressed. I'm glad all the teams don't want refuelling back either. I still think the V6 turbo-ERS engines are the way forward with the fuel load, wish they'd get rid of the fuel-flow limit though, the teams should be allowed to use the 100kg's how they see fit.

apexatspeed
08-06-2015, 21:48
I still think much simpler,

-longer lasting tyres, since Pirelli came back into F1 in 2011 their 2011 tyres have been the best from what I remember. The drivers could push (although not as much as the 2010 bridgestones) and the tyres went off but not suddenly as they seem to (sometimes) do now.
-aero, change the aero so ground effects are re allowed to a degree. All of the tracks (bar Monaco and maybe Albert park) are so smooth ground effects would be ideal, this also wouldn't be affected by following a car in its dirty air (or certainly not as much) allowing the attacking car to get closer to make a potential move.

I think these two things would do wonders actually, probably lots of issues implementing them that I haven't addressed. I'm glad all the teams don't want refuelling back either. I still think the V6 turbo-ERS engines are the way forward with the fuel load, wish they'd get rid of the fuel-flow limit though, the teams should be allowed to use the 100kg's how they see fit.

Longer lasting tires will only reduce the amount of passing on track. Thus creating more "boring processions".

I agree they need to do something about turbulent air preventing drivers from getting close. Also I agree the fuel flow limit shouldn't be there, but it is there in a lot of racing leagues and I don't see that changing.

Pink_650S
08-06-2015, 22:01
Do you guys think we will see some kind of chassis the IndyCars currently have?
I dont really like them aesthetically, but they seem to allow close racing...

Robbo-92
08-06-2015, 22:50
Longer lasting tires will only reduce the amount of passing on track. Thus creating more "boring processions".

I agree they need to do something about turbulent air preventing drivers from getting close. Also I agree the fuel flow limit shouldn't be there, but it is there in a lot of racing leagues and I don't see that changing.

To be fair 2010 seemed to be very good in general and the tyres were much more durable then, I recall Vettel doing nearly the full race at Monza on a set of option tyres (sure he pitted about 5 laps before the end) but it seemed much better overall even with the durable tyres.

apexatspeed
08-06-2015, 23:23
To be fair 2010 seemed to be very good in general and the tyres were much more durable then, I recall Vettel doing nearly the full race at Monza on a set of option tyres (sure he pitted about 5 laps before the end) but it seemed much better overall even with the durable tyres.

Why do people want F1 to not have pit stops? Without refueling and tires that last a whole race the pit crew will be useless.

People complained that F1 was boring because there was not enough passes. The tire degradation was altered to promote passing. Now people are complaining about tires degrading. People will complain to complain.

http://img.pandawhale.com/89742-Han-Solo-shrug-yeah-gif-Imgur-EN7l.gif

Pink_650S
08-06-2015, 23:37
Why do people want F1 to not have pit stops? Without refueling and tires that last a whole race the pit crew will be useless.

People complained that F1 was boring because there was not enough passes. The tire degradation was altered to promote passing. Now people are complaining about tires degrading. People will complain to complain.

http://img.pandawhale.com/89742-Han-Solo-shrug-yeah-gif-Imgur-EN7l.gif

People nowadays really do complain to complain.
Your meme doesnt fit nonetheless :p

Olijke Poffer
09-06-2015, 03:48
What racecar engines have you heard in person?

Pink_650S knows how I operate.

Like this. :-) just the transition year between loud and noisy to soft and silent. Well a sort of silent. Lol


http://youtu.be/jS4Dh_EAfJI

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 04:00
Like this. :-) just the transition year between loud and noisy to soft and silent. Well a sort of silent. Lol


http://youtu.be/jS4Dh_EAfJI

Not even close to silent these cars are loud as (insert profane word here). I dare you to attempt to set track side for a whole race without protection. I bet you won't make it.

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 04:07
Like this. :-) just the transition year between loud and noisy to soft and silent. Well a sort of silent. Lol


http://youtu.be/jS4Dh_EAfJI

They are not silent. That doesn't answer the question. Instead of putting smiley faces and videos answer the question. What racing engines have you heard in person?

Robbo-92
09-06-2015, 06:02
Why do people want F1 to not have pit stops? Without refueling and tires that last a whole race the pit crew will be useless.

People complained that F1 was boring because there was not enough passes. The tire degradation was altered to promote passing. Now people are complaining about tires degrading. People will complain to complain.

http://img.pandawhale.com/89742-Han-Solo-shrug-yeah-gif-Imgur-EN7l.gif

Because people are never happy with a product, no matter how near perfection it is, they always feel it can be improved?

But back on F1 tyres it actually doesn't bother me how many stops they have to make as long as the racing was good. I know 2010 wasn't the best year for overtaking (but I still found it a very enjoyable season, I can't find how many passes were made per race on average either, I'm sure a site in the uk, F1 fanatic has such graphs somewhere) but it would have been kind of interesting to see those tyres with DRS and KERS (as it was back then, even though 2010 didn't have any extras such as DRS and KERS) to see how the racing would have been.

I just dislike the way that as soon as a driver gets in another drivers dirty air they either have to be so much quicker than the defending driver to pass within a short time or they just have to wait for the next round of put stops. I don't recall this happening in 2010 or even 2011 with the Pirelli tyres.

mister dog
09-06-2015, 06:27
They are not silent. That doesn't answer the question. Instead of putting smiley faces and videos answer the question. What racing engines have you heard in person?

That argument of yours is getting old. I bet you heard it in person so now the new engine note doesn't suck compared to the old one?

Olijke Poffer
09-06-2015, 07:16
They are not silent. That doesn't answer the question. Instead of putting smiley faces and videos answer the question. What racing engines have you heard in person?

Compared to the older cars they are silent. That is my opinion. If you think different then that is that ok. I'll stick on my thoughts about the engines.

MiZtErNiCe
09-06-2015, 10:25
i heard the 3.0 litre V10 and its by far thee best engine i have ever heard with my own ears.

on another note there was lots of overtaking and 7 different drivers won the first 7 races in 2012, it wasn't broke then yet they still tried to fix it and look what we are left with.

Pink_650S
09-06-2015, 12:37
The old engines sound like violence, while the new engines sound like... engines. :p

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 16:32
That argument of yours is getting old. I bet you heard it in person so now the new engine note doesn't suck compared to the old one?

It's not getting old. It is funny nobody has answered the question. A bunch of people complaining about it being too quiet and have never heard a F1 engine or any other race car for that matter.

It's also funny that my comment gets passed. None of you would last 10 laps track side to a 2015 F1 car without ear protection. To put it in persepctive these cars are WAY louder than IndyCars. And balls d those things are loud. Even with the Indy cars I tried to listen without ear protection and ended up giving in due to my ears hurting.

mister dog
09-06-2015, 16:39
It's not getting old. It is funny nobody has answered the question. A bunch of people complaining about it being too quiet and have never heard a F1 engine or any other race car for that matter.
Maybe most of us are only able to follow the sport on a television set? http://www.petget.com/prhforum/images/smilies/icon_dunno.gif
Nice to hear that IRL they are loud enough, but that doesn't really matter to the 95% of F1 fans that spectate from their couch. For us it matters that we barely hear them anymore so naturally people are going to complain, especially seeing the old engine notes were so impressive.

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 16:47
Maybe most of us are only able to follow the sport on a television set? http://www.petget.com/prhforum/images/smilies/icon_dunno.gif
Nice to hear that IRL they are loud enough, but that doesn't really matter to the 95% of F1 fans that spectate from their couch. For us it matters that we barely hear them anymore so naturally people are going to complain, especially seeing the old engine notes were so impressive.

And there is nothing wrong with that, but to say his argument is old or ineffective just because people dont want to answer the question just doesnt seem right.

Pink_650S
09-06-2015, 16:51
It's not getting old. It is funny nobody has answered the question. A bunch of people complaining about it being too quiet and have never heard a F1 engine or any other race car for that matter.

It's also funny that my comment gets passed. None of you would last 10 laps track side to a 2015 F1 car without ear protection. To put it in persepctive these cars are WAY louder than IndyCars. And balls d those things are loud. Even with the Indy cars I tried to listen without ear protection and ended up giving in due to my ears hurting.


But all your arguments dont change the fact that the old engines were louder :rolleyes:

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 17:09
But all your arguments dont change the fact that the old engines were louder :rolleyes:


Being quieter than a nuclear bomb doesnt make something quiet. :rolleyes: Just because it is not as loud doesnt mean it is not loud or ANYWHERE near silent. The cars are loud as balls and everybody thinks they sound like econo hatchbacks. It is a joke. People can say oh they arent as loud and thats less fun, but they cant say they are quiet, silent, near silent, whispery or any word like that because it is factually incorrect when it can cause hearing damage and is louder than a lot of other race cars.

FA RACING 01
09-06-2015, 17:17
Being quieter than a nuclear bomb doesnt make something quiet. :rolleyes: Just because it is not as loud doesnt mean it is not loud or ANYWHERE near silent. The cars are loud as balls and everybody thinks they sound like econo hatchbacks. It is a joke. People can say oh they arent as loud and thats less fun, but they cant say they are quiet, silent, near silent, whispery or any word like that because it is factually incorrect when it can cause hearing damage and is louder than a lot of other race cars.

My lawnmower is also loud, but sounds terrible.

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 17:20
My lawnmower is also loud, but sounds terrible.

The subjective quality of the sound was not a part of this conversation.

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 17:23
That argument of yours is getting old. I bet you heard it in person so now the new engine note doesn't suck compared to the old one?

I bet the reason he won't respond with anything is because he has never heard a race car in person. If you haven't heard them in person then how can you make an realistic decision on the sound? This is like all the people who complain about sound in project cars, but only hear race cars through videos from 100 yards away. Armchair quarterbacks trying to give their two cents. If you have never heard any car louder than your neighbor's Civic with straight pipes you can't deduce an accurate mental representation of what race cars sound like.

F1 cars are already significantly louder than an Indycar or NASCAR. Do you understand how the logarithimc scaling of the decibel system works? An V6 Indycar is rated at 128 decibels. A V6 F1 car is rated at 134 decibels. A NASCAR is 130 decibels. 135 decibels is equivalent to standing 50 feet behind a Boeing 747 taking off. In races multiple cars together for both F1 and IndyCar can be up to 140 decibels. That can cause serious hearing damage. Being 6 decibels louder is a pretty big gap in sound.

The word "silent" absolutely can not be used to describe the V6 turbo engines.

Pink_650S
09-06-2015, 17:23
Being quieter than a nuclear bomb doesnt make something quiet. :rolleyes: Just because it is not as loud doesnt mean it is not loud or ANYWHERE near silent. The cars are loud as balls and everybody thinks they sound like econo hatchbacks. It is a joke. People can say oh they arent as loud and thats less fun, but they cant say they are quiet, silent, near silent, whispery or any word like that because it is factually incorrect when it can cause hearing damage and is louder than a lot of other race cars.

I never said they were quiet. :rolleyes:
I'm still wondering why you and apexatspeed are defending everything about F1 so desperately :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Edit: There he already is :p

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 17:26
I never said they were quiet. :rolleyes:
I'm still wondering why you and apexatspeed are defending everything about F1 so desperately :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Edit: There he already is :p

Everything about F1? I Explicitly already told you things that I thought are wrong with F1.:rolleyes: You absolutely made that up out of thin air. I am simply pointing out some of the complaints are complaints about nothing. People who can't imagine the sound of a car that loud or people who claim F1 is "quiet".

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 17:28
I never said they were quiet. :rolleyes:
I'm still wondering why you and apexatspeed are defending everything about F1 so desperately :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Edit: There he already is :p

I dont defend everything about F1. Go back and look at my posts on this thread. I really mostly chime in when people say incorrect stuff. And if you werent saying they were quiet someone else was. I didnt just make that up. For you to say they are quieter than the V8 cars to me doesnt add anything because I already know that. I was addressing the guy that said the were silent, and you came in and said they are quieter like I didnt already know that or I said they were just as loud.

Also there are a lot of things I dont like (susie wolff being one thing haha) about F1, but I dont cry about them all.

FA RACING 01
09-06-2015, 17:42
The subjective quality of the sound was not a part of this conversation.

Loud, soft is relative, still sounds awfull to me.

Pink_650S
09-06-2015, 17:51
apexatspeed and GT_Racing, you two should get a room :rolleyes:

@Mods: ^ This is a joke.

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 17:56
apexatspeed and GT_Racing, you two should get a room :rolleyes:

@Mods: ^ This is a joke.

Insult. Ban. Just kidding, but your joke is not funny.

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 17:59
apexatspeed and GT_Racing, you two should get a room :rolleyes:

@Mods: ^ This is a joke.

You should get a room with everyone else in here and circle around on each other about sound. When you've never heard a car louder than a production car with an 8k rev limit and no exhaust.

It seems you want this thread to be a place without discussion. You can't handle people with differing opinions without the insults. You don't want anybody to counter lame accusations about sound with facts and personal experience. You want this thread to be say negative things about F1 and if anyone says anything positive they are wrong. Please go sit down somewhere.

Pink_650S
09-06-2015, 17:59
Insult. Ban. Just kidding, but your joke is not funny.

It is :p

Pink_650S
09-06-2015, 18:10
You should get a room with everyone else in here and circle around on each other about sound. When you've never heard a car louder than a production car with an 8k rev limit and no exhaust.

It seems you want this thread to be a place without discussion. You can't handle people with differing opinions without the insults. You don't want anybody to counter lame accusations about sound with facts and personal experience. You want this thread to be say negative things about F1 and if anyone says anything positive they are wrong. Please go sit down somewhere.

No, l just want to lighten the mood a little bit, you two are way too serious about this all.
I love Formula 1, but l have better things to do than discussing back and forth about how loud what engine is.
I think you and GT need to sit down somewhere, for a loooong time :p

mister dog
09-06-2015, 18:15
I bet the reason he won't respond with anything is because he has never heard a race car in person. If you haven't heard them in person then how can you make an realistic decision on the sound? This is like all the people who complain about sound in project cars, but only hear race cars through videos from 100 yards away. Armchair quarterbacks trying to give their two cents. If you have never heard any car louder than your neighbor's Civic with straight pipes you can't deduce an accurate mental representation of what race cars sound like.

F1 cars are already significantly louder than an Indycar or NASCAR. Do you understand how the logarithimc scaling of the decibel system works? An V6 Indycar is rated at 128 decibels. A V6 F1 car is rated at 134 decibels. A NASCAR is 130 decibels. 135 decibels is equivalent to standing 50 feet behind a Boeing 747 taking off. In races multiple cars together for both F1 and IndyCar can be up to 140 decibels. That can cause serious hearing damage. Being 6 decibels louder is a pretty big gap in sound.


Yes yes.. never heard a racing car in person :rolleyes:

Hey I was thinking about you seeing this in another thread today:

http://i58.tinypic.com/11hdhub.jpg

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 18:23
No, l just want to lighten the mood a little bit, you two are way too serious about this all.
I love Formula 1, but l have better things to do than discussing back and forth about how loud what engine is.
I think you and GT need to sit down somewhere, for a loooong time :p

You are funny. I am really thinking about reporting that comment now. If someone hadnt said they were quiet and got backed up this whole conversation would never have happened. I dont see how I am taking this too serious and other people arent. Please stop now.

Fyrwulf
09-06-2015, 18:23
Never been a fan of F1 for the same reason I'm not a fan of LMP, it's all too homogeneous.

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 18:24
Yes yes.. never heard a racing car in person :rolleyes:

Hey I was thinking about you seeing this in another thread today:

http://i58.tinypic.com/11hdhub.jpg

I saw that earlier today as well hahaha. It equally applies to you and Pink_650S as well. Especially Pink_650S who instantly decided to bring the conversation to insults. He can't seem to handle someone being rational. Pink_650S just says things even though I had explicitly explained something else to him the other day.

mister dog
09-06-2015, 18:29
I saw that earlier today as well hahaha. It equally applies to you and Pink_650S as well. Especially Pink_650S who instantly decided to bring the conversation to insults. He can't seem to handle someone being rational. Pink_650S just says things even though I had explicitly explained something else to him the other day.

Maybe he should do some research before he embarrasses himself like that again!

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 18:45
Maybe he should do some research before he embarrasses himself like that again!

Would you like to get even more off topic? Or stick to actually talking about F1?

Fist of Kong
09-06-2015, 18:53
I would much rather watch the BTCC on ITV4......

Robbo-92
09-06-2015, 19:16
I've forgotten what you are even arguing about, I concur though, lets get back to talking F1 :)

Pink_650S
09-06-2015, 19:19
@apexatspeed: l'm not a he. I'm also not constantly correcting others or discussing their opinions.

@GT Racing: Report me if it makes you feel better. My comment didnt contain an insult + its clearly marked as a joke.

Bealdor
09-06-2015, 19:21
Keep the discussion civil and on topic or this thread will get closed.

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 19:22
@apexatspeed: l'm not a he. I'm also not constantly correcting others or discussing their opinions.

@GT Racing: Report me if it makes you feel better. My comment didnt contain an insult + its clearly marked as a joke.

Edit: Nevermind we are supposed to keep it civil.

Martini Da Gasalini
09-06-2015, 19:29
I agree with a lot of the points you guys have made, I also come from the mid 90's F1, saw the death of Senna :( and the rise of the Machine called Schumacher, which of course makes it of no surprise that Ferrari is my favorite team and it's been hard seeing them being so flat.

It's just so uncompetitive.

I've been watching more and more of the Australian super v8 racing when I get a chance here in the states, MAN that is some exciting racing!

Pink_650S
09-06-2015, 19:32
Edit: Nevermind we are supposed to keep it civil.

Friends :)
:rolleyes:

mister dog
09-06-2015, 19:35
I agree with a lot of the points you guys have made, I also come from the mid 90's F1, saw the death of Senna :( and the rise of the Machine called Schumacher, which of course makes it of no surprise that Ferrari is my favorite team and it's been hard seeing them being so flat.

It's just so uncompetitive.

I've been watching more and more of the Australian super v8 racing when I get a chance here in the states, MAN that is some exciting racing!

I switched to Blancpain this year. GT monsters that have their own individuality still and look beautiful, racing on classic tracks with grass on the side instead of sponsored run off areas, and sounding like the growling beasts they are. Also the drivers look like they are the F1 breed from the 50's still, just look at Enzo Ide for example :):

http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/Pilotos/Ide.jpg

Would follow the WEC too but i haven't found a decent free stream yet.

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 19:41
Would follow the WEC too but i haven't found a decent free stream yet.

The cars in the WEC are not to quiet for you?

mister dog
09-06-2015, 19:47
The cars in the WEC are not to quiet for you?

Maybe the Audi R18, but all the others sound pretty decent:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkS7SccuOVo

And just to be clear, sound is only one of the things turning me off F1.

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 19:58
Maybe the Audi R18, but all the others sound pretty decent:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkS7SccuOVo

And just to be clear, sound is only one of the things turning me off F1.

WEC cars are limited to 110dB

Martini Da Gasalini
09-06-2015, 20:00
I switched to Blancpain this year. GT monsters that have their own individuality still and look beautiful, racing on classic tracks with grass on the side instead of sponsored run off areas, and sounding like the growling beasts they are. Also the drivers look like they are the F1 breed from the 50's still, just look at Enzo Ide for example :):


Would follow the WEC too but i haven't found a decent free stream yet.


are you referring to this series?


blancpain-gt-series.com

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 20:03
Maybe the Audi R18, but all the others sound pretty decent:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkS7SccuOVo

And just to be clear, sound is only one of the things turning me off F1.

As stated by GT_Racing, WEC has a decibel limit for their cars. 110dB is significantly more quiet than F1 V6 Turbos. Due to the logarithmic scaling of dBs they aren't even in the same ballpark.

Olijke Poffer
09-06-2015, 20:18
One happy family chitchat on F1 car sound.
I still find the older F1 cars making more noise than the later build ones.

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 20:21
are you referring to this series?


blancpain-gt-series.com

More than likely. The Blancpain Series is dope.

Even more off topic: Enzo Ide needs to hit a treadmill. He is looking like the pilsbury dough boy.

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 20:26
I still find the older F1 cars making more noise than the later build ones.

Hahaha no kidding. Nobody has said otherwise.

http://i.imgur.com/TdNYRT6.gif

mister dog
09-06-2015, 20:41
@apexatspeed and @GT_racing please give it a rest already with trying to prove yourselves. Yes current day F1's produce more decibels, yet they still sound like crap compared to the V8's,V10's and V12's they were running before.

I wonder how much decibels this one produced:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SoZiTxdQyw

And it looks gorgeous too.

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 20:44
@apexatspeed and @GT_racing please give it a rest already with trying to prove yourselves. Yes current day F1's produce more decibels, yet they still sound like crap compared to the V8's,V10's and V12's they were running before.

I wonder how much decibels this one produced:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SoZiTxdQyw

And it looks gorgeous too.

Everyone is past comparing F1 to F1. You're talking about LMP1 cars now :rolleyes:. WEC's cars are not even close to as loud as an F1 car. You are in denial of reality.

"Yes current day F1's produce more decibels" I hope you are not talking about compared to older F1 cars because that isn't true.

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 20:45
@apexatspeed and @GT_racing please give it a rest already with trying to prove yourselves. Yes current day F1's produce more decibels, yet they still sound like crap compared to the V8's,V10's and V12's they were running before.

I wonder how much decibels this one produced:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SoZiTxdQyw

And it looks gorgeous too.

Nobody ever said the current F1 cars are louder ("produce more decibels") than the old cars. I was just telling somebody that they werent quiet. It is like you are not even reading what is being posted. And then you go and say the TS040 is loud enough only to find out that it is quieter than the current F1 cars so you choose to ignore it. Come on man.

mister dog
09-06-2015, 20:47
Have you considered that the engine note of the TS040 sounds a lot better without being 'louder'?

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 20:52
Have you considered that the engine note of the TS040 sounds a lot better without being 'louder'?

Well you responded to a question about quietness with a video of it with out properly explaining it. So no. Dont try to change your answer now. Nice try though.

mister dog
09-06-2015, 20:56
Well you responded to a question about quietness with a video of it with out properly explaining it. So no. Dont try to change your answer now. Nice try though.
My answer with that video was that no, i don't think they are quiet and i also think they sound better than the F1's. Clear to you now?

Pink_650S
09-06-2015, 20:56
@mister_dog: Cant believe you're still discussing with them :p

mister dog
09-06-2015, 20:57
@mister_dog: Cant believe your still discussing with them :p

True i'm going to stop now. Like this thread too much to see it locked :)

Pink_650S
09-06-2015, 21:02
It was actually a nice, on-topic thread about a very important matter for 5 or 6 posts, until... u know...

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 21:07
It was actually a nice, on-topic thread about a very important matter for 5 or 6 posts, until... u know...

Haha It is still on topic. We are discussing why F1 is "dead" and people source sound as a reason. This all comes back to my previous post about you.

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 21:12
Haha It is still on topic. We are discussing why F1 is "dead" and people source sound as a reason. This all comes back to my previous post about you.

She wants it to be the bash F1 thread. If anyone disagrees with her opinion or says something positive it's pff topic. If everyone agreed on the same things that were wrong with F1 this topic wouldve had 1 post with 5 likes.

mister dog
09-06-2015, 21:13
Let's shake hands and make up now.

GT_Racing
09-06-2015, 21:45
Let's shake hands and make up now.

I never had a problem with you, but its fine by me.

Projectmanager
09-06-2015, 22:09
I don't know if anyone is still commenting on this,I too have lost interest,ime 55 years of age and have been brought up on racing,hill climbing,time trials,grass tracking,my whole family race,my dad walked me down the grid in the late 60,s early 70,s when graham hill was racing,meeting David coulthard when we were in the mclaren pits one race weekend,ayrton senna was my idol,lucky enough I went to plenty of gp,s till the 90,s,the sound of the mp 4/6 of senna and the other f1 cars of that era were mind blowing,went to my last gp in 2009 at silver stone then lost interest,the days of scrapping for the lead without worrying over fuel and tyre conservation was so exciting,listening to alonso over his pit radio at Canada summed it all up,the fizz has gone out of the champagne,I could go on for hours,enough said,it's boring,btcc and British super bikes and moto gp takes priority on the TV now,I've built an f1 simulator in my garage and that is more exciting than anything on this planet now,Sunday afternoons sat in that rather than sat on my sofa watching sleepy f1,

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 23:09
Let's shake hands and make up now.

We can make up, but I never didn't like you. Just cause you have a different opinion than me doesn't mean I ever didn't like you. Your thread on the night sky is top notch stuff.

mister dog
09-06-2015, 23:11
We can make up, but I never didn't like you. Just cause you have a different opinion than me doesn't mean I ever didn't like you. Your thread on the night sky is top notch stuff.

Thanks, and i'll put some water in my wine and say F1 is still loud :)

SL1DE
10-06-2015, 05:43
I've been following F1 since 1992 and i can't bring myself to watch a race anymore.
The cars are ugly, the engines sound like crap, the tracks are Tilkedromes in countries were nobody is bothered about the sport, technology is specced so there isn't much difference in engineering going on, the passing moves are artificial due to DRS, grid boys now instead of grid girls :D...

Then the FIA re-introduces somes rules they already banned years ago again, trying to make things attractive but failing miserably like always.

Do you still care much for the sport, do you feel the same? Or do you actually prefer todays F1 over the old days?

It is more popular than it has ever been, in the past two years we've had more exciting races than ever before, but at the same time it does seem dead.

In my opinion it's due to a number of things, KERS, DRS, lawn mower engines... It has lost it's magic, it doesn't feel like Grand Prix racing anymore, it feels like any other spec series.

They need to bring back engines that scream at you, Twin Turbo V12's with 2,000hp. Scare the living sh_t out of you and the drivers, fear creates thrill. Tyres that last forever (like the old bridgestone's) so the drivers can push, also get rid of how much fuel you can use per hour, that's stupid. They need to stop trying to fix the environment.

Actually, on Sky Sports F1's broadcast over the weekend they done an interview with Bernie and he said something about repairing the environment and that they have Formula E for that now, so maybe he is hinting a return to bigger engines?
http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/f1/9877474/bernie-on-hybrid-engines

DRS - Artificial overtakes are boring, it just lets a faster car get by so he can build a gap. It was cool at first, but it's unimpressive now. The cars look pretty competitive now so I don't think we need it anymore.

KERS - It only works in WEC because they're all manufacturers like Audi, Toyota, Porsche, they have unlimited resources and budget.
It doesn't work in F1 because the hybrid system is pretty much most of the engine costs now and most of the teams are independent, they don't have the backing of a multi-billion dollar business. They simply cannot afford it, so it needs to be scrapped.

The FIA need to stop this Formula Conservative garbage and go through the archives and study classic F1 races, figure out what makes them feel so special, bring back the magic that is Grand Prix racing. Hopefully Bernie has more than a few years left in him because he is the only one old enough to know what Grand Prix racing is all about, Bernie hated Formula Conservative from the get-go.

F1 needs to be loud, obnoxious, fuel guzzling, fast. And I hate it when people talk about how it needs to be "road car relevant", when has F1 ever been relevant to road cars? Never. That's what WEC is for. Plus - LaFerrari, a road car, powered by a V12.

A formula which is load, obnoxious, and scares the living sh_t out of people. That's what Formula1 Grand Prix racing should always be.

Oh and grid girls, they should absolutely NEVER get rid of grid girls. Grid girls is a tradition that has been around for so long (back in the 60's they used to be time keepers), and they want to be models anyway. If I was a girl, I'd want to be a grid girl and get on the F1 podium, who wouldn't? lol Grid boys would be ultra gay, it'll make it a sausage-fest.

And refuelling should probably stay out. It was Grand Prix racing before the 90s when they brought in refuelling. 2010 felt like GP racing, Monaco 2010 when Webber kept building a 15 second gap, only to have it crushed by a safety car, pushing it to the absolute limit around the barriers, that is Formula1.

We need more dangerous tracks, I think the cars are safe enough to bring back the Peratalda in Mexico. If Nasr can crash head on into a concrete wall at 200mph and walk away from it, then I'm pretty sure the cars are super safe, the only thing which needs work on are the helmets, and you're not going to smash your head against a wall or the ground, the cars prevent that.

Now we move on to the topic of Herman Tilke, they need to get rid of him. He makes the worst circuits ever and they're taking over the calendar. But not only him, but the FIA are also ruining circuits with their run-off areas, the drivers are no longer on the edge of retiring from the race from a single mistake - Which also removes the thrill and makes it boring.

They need to figure out that we don't want more overtaking, we just want the thrill to return. Only American's want overtaking due to their short attention-span, but F1 doesn't need American fans, it doesn't need to be American-ised.

Bottom line - safety and environmentalists ruin EVERYTHING.

I think this is the longest post I've ever made on any forum. (Spamming doesn't count) :cool:

FA RACING 01
10-06-2015, 05:59
Agree with you on most part, except the "American bashing". Not true and not nice. Overtaking is part and parcel of the thrill.

apexatspeed
10-06-2015, 06:21
ultra gay, it'll make it a sausage-fest.

Wow... wow... wow...

https://neversaynever0304.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/disgust_707676_1567263.gif

Worst post ever.

And that doesn't include some the other things you said.

SL1DE
10-06-2015, 06:31
Wow... wow... wow...

https://neversaynever0304.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/disgust_707676_1567263.gif

Worst post ever.

And that doesn't include some the other things you said.

lol. Yeah well I'm a controversial type of guy.

Bealdor
10-06-2015, 06:50
SL1DE, I'll just comment on some of your points (mostly those wher I disagree with you).


It is more popular than it has ever been, in the past two years we've had more exciting races than ever before, but at the same time it does seem dead.

Looks like I have watched a different Formula 1 series than you.


DRS - Artificial overtakes are boring

I agree. The problem is that the cars are too aero dependant. Give them less effective aero and the races will get exciting again.


We need more dangerous tracks...

Erm... no. You can build exciting tracks without making them unnecessarily dangerous for the drivers and/or spectators.


the only thing which needs work on are the helmets, and you're not going to smash your head against a wall or the ground, the cars prevent that.

I'm pretty sure that Jules Bianchi would disagree with you, if he could.


Bottom line - safety and environmentalists ruin EVERYTHING.

If you really think that only making the races more dangerous again can bring back exciting races you're living in the wrong decade (dare I say century).
Decreasing the safety of the drivers can't and won't be the answer to this.
Look at the WEC, they driving on the same tracks with the same run off areas in even safer cars and the racing is still 100 times more exciting than F1.


And finally:


They need to figure out that we don't want more overtaking, we just want the thrill to return. Only American's want overtaking due to their short attention-span, but F1 doesn't need American fans, it doesn't need to be American-ised.

This is utter garbage. The US has a different racing history and culture that's why their racing series work differently. This has nothing to do with Americans having a shorter attention span or being only interested in the entertainment part and not the race strategies.

So everybody stop making those uninformed assumptions. This constant "US vs. Rest of the World" BS is not welcome here and it's getting on my nerves TBH. I already closed another thread because of this nonsense and I will continue to do so (and put some infractions on top).

jgaganas
10-06-2015, 07:02
WEC 2015@Silverstone was just AMAZING, because they (WEC) got the balance of power right. That's the problem of F1 in our days.

Those Porsche vs Audi battles mid-race was just insane (in an endurance race)...

SL1DE
10-06-2015, 07:18
SL1DE, I'll just comment on some of your points (mostly those wher I disagree with you).



Looks like I have watched a different Formula 1 series than you.



I agree. The problem is that the cars are too aero dependant. Give them less effective aero and the races will get exciting again.



Erm... no. You can build exciting tracks without making them unnecessarily dangerous for the drivers and/or spectators.



I'm pretty sure that Jules Bianchi would disagree with you, if he could.



If you really think that only making the races more dangerous again can bring back exciting races you're living in the wrong decade (dare I say century).
Decreasing the safety of the drivers can't and won't be the answer to this.
Look at the WEC, they driving on the same tracks with the same run off areas in even safer cars and the racing is still 100 times more exciting than F1.


And finally:



This is utter garbage. The US has a different racing history and culture that's why their racing series work differently. This has nothing to do with Americans having a shorter attention span or being only interested in the entertainment part and not the race strategies.

So everybody stop making those uninformed assumptions. This constant "US vs. Rest of the World" BS is not welcome here and it's getting on my nerves TBH. I already closed another thread because of this nonsense and I will continue to do so (and put some infractions on top).

With Jules Bianchi there wasn't any contact with the car, his HEAD collided with the truck because the bottom of the truck was that the level of his head, the car nose went under it and his helmet and the side of the top of the car hit it. But it smacked him on the head so his head absorbed some of the collision.

What makes WEC remotely interesting is that they can go flat out lap after lap, that's what F1 is mostly missing. I don't watch much WEC, probably only 2 hours per race. Kind of hard to put 6 hours aside to watch a whole race. But I agree, some of the battles are interesting, all without the need of DRS and tyres which go off after two laps.

And I've actually had American's admit to me that they find it disinteresting because of their short attention span... Come on... xD An American told me that they need it to be like NASCAR, constant overtaking, crashes, and beer to be interested. :P Then again, that same person thought F1 still had traction control lol. If American's can make fun of themselves, surely they wouldn't mind if I half-jokingly had a crack at them.

But that's the point I was trying to make, they're (USA folk) are only interested in entertainment (crashes and overtakes), and not strategies or battles - which is what Formula1 is. By trying to make it "entertaining" for them, the FIA have turned it into a circus, and all the personalities involved are like a bunch of clowns. But there was a time (in the 70s) where they were really into it... But that was a different time I guess. They ruined the sport by trying to make it appealing to American's with DRS junk.

Now even GP2 adopted DRS, I actually really enjoyed GP2, more than F1, but they decided to ruin that with DRS also. GP2 already had it's fair share of overtaking, it didn't need DRS!

Racing isn't a circus, it isn't a show, it's a sport. I hate it when people talk about improving "the show". It wasn't broken to begin with, but they broke it whilst trying to improve it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Anyway, I am entitled to state my ignorant opinion. Ignorance isn't against the forum rules last time I checked, so don't make up your own as you go along. I'm not swearing, I'm not trolling, I'm not spamming, I'm not personally insulting anyone (not trying to anyway).
I'm blabbing on about crap and posting my opinion on the state of my favourite sport and typing whatever comes to mind, and that is what the whole point of a forum is. Sorry if I pissed you off a bit, but I don't believe I broke any forum rules, therefore an infraction isn't necessary. As I stated above, I am a controversial type of guy. :D I care not for political correctness, and I always post what I believe in without a care in the world what other people think of it. And I definitely do not care what you think. And I do not with to argue with you, so we'll leave it there.

I'm not trying to be unfriendly or anything, I just say it as it is. It's just how I see things. Let's just agree to disagree, shake hands, and move on. I apologise. Didn't mean to offend.

FA RACING 01
10-06-2015, 07:23
With Jules Bianchi there wasn't any contact with the car, his HEAD collided with the truck because the bottom of the truck was that the level of his head, the car nose went under it and his helmet and the side of the top of the car hit it. But it smacked him on the head so his head absorbed some of the collision.

What makes WEC remotely interesting is that they can go flat out lap after lap, that's what F1 is mostly missing. I don't watch much WEC, probably only 2 hours per race. Kind of hard to put 6 hours aside to watch a whole race. But I agree, some of the battles are interesting, all without the need of DRS and tyres which go off after two laps.

And I've actually had American's admit to me that they find it disinteresting because of their short attention span... Come on... xD An American told me that they need it to be like NASCAR, constant overtaking, crashes, and beer to be interested. :P Then again, that same person thought F1 still had traction control lol. If American's can make fun of themselves, surely they wouldn't mind if I half-jokingly had a crack at them.

But that's the point I was trying to make, they're (USA folk) are only interested in entertainment (crashes and overtakes), and not strategies or battles - which is what Formula1 is. By trying to make it "entertaining" for them, the FIA have turned it into a circus, and all the personalities involved are like a bunch of clowns. But there was a time (in the 70s) where they were really into it... But that was a different time I guess. They ruined the sport by trying to make it appealing to American's with DRS junk.

Now even GP2 adopted DRS, I actually really enjoyed GP2, more than F1, but they decided to ruin that with DRS also. GP2 already had it's fair share of overtaking, it didn't need DRS! Racing isn't a circus, it isn't a show, it's a sport.

Anyway, I am entitled to state my ignorant opinion. Ignorance isn't against the forum rules last time I checked, so don't make up your own as you go along. I'm not swearing, I'm not trolling, I'm not spamming, I'm not personally insulting anyone (not trying to anyway).
I'm blabbing on about crap and posting my opinion on the state of my favourite sport and typing whatever comes to mind, and that is what the whole point of a forum is. Sorry if I pissed you off a bit, but I don't believe I broke any forum rules, therefore an infraction isn't necessary unless you wish to abuse your powers, then I say GO AHEAD! As I stated above, I am a controversial type of guy. :D I care not for political correctness, and I always fight for what I believe in, and for freedom. The freedom to post my opinion without a care in the world what other people think of it. And I definitely do not care what you think. And I do not with to argue with you, so we'll leave it there.

I'm not trying to be unfriendly or anything, I just say it as it is. It's just how I see things. Let's just agree to disagree, shake hands, and move on. I apologise. Didn't mean to offend.

Ouch!

mister dog
10-06-2015, 07:30
It is more popular than it has ever been, in the past two years we've had more exciting races than ever before, but at the same time it does seem dead.
I agreed with a couple of points (especially the sausage fest haha /s), but actually it's declining in popularity. I remember reading F1 lost +/- 150 million TV viewers in the last 6 years. The switch to pay TV will have had a big influence of course, but still that's a lot of people not bothering with it anymore. And if i take myself as an example last year i still watched a couple of races but this year i'm not watching any anymore, so i bet 2015 will see a further decline.

GT_Racing
10-06-2015, 07:37
What makes WEC remotely interesting is that they can go flat out lap after lap, that's what F1 is mostly missing. I don't watch much WEC, probably only 2 hours per race. Kind of hard to put 6 hours aside to watch a whole race. But I agree, some of the battles are interesting, all without the need of DRS and tyres which go off after two laps.

And I've actually had American's admit to me that they find it disinteresting because of their short attention span... Come on... xD An American told me that they need it to be like NASCAR, constant overtaking, crashes, and beer to be interested. :P Then again, that same person thought F1 still had traction control lol. If American's can make fun of themselves, surely they wouldn't mind if I half-jokingly had a crack at them.

But that's the point I was trying to make, they're (USA folk) are only interested in entertainment (crashes and overtakes), and not strategies or battles - which is what Formula1 is. By trying to make it "entertaining" for them, the FIA have turned it into a circus, and all the personalities involved are like a bunch of clowns. But there was a time (in the 70s) where they were really into it... But that was a different time I guess. They ruined the sport by trying to make it appealing to American's with DRS junk.



My response to Paragraph 1: You are 100% wrong. In WEC they NEVER go flat out. There is a limit to how much fuel a car can use per lap. Mike Conway said it himself that most drivers wish they could go flat out and not have a fuel limit per lap.

"Take away the limited fuel per lap, because we just want to go flat-out" Those where his words.

My response to Paragraph 2 & 3: Just imagine me using any profane word you want to describe you.

Bealdor
10-06-2015, 07:41
With Jules Bianchi there wasn't any contact with the car, his HEAD collided with the truck because the bottom of the truck was that the level of his head, the car nose went under it and his helmet and the side of the top of the car hit it. But it smacked him on the head so his head absorbed some of the collision.

That's right but your point was that adding more danger to the sports is OK because the cars are safe enough and I disagreed with that. As long as those accidents can happen it's IMO not right to stop increasing the safety for drivers and spectators.


And I've actually had American's admit to me that they find it disinteresting because of their short attention span... Come on... xD An American told me that they need it to be like NASCAR, constant overtaking, crashes, and beer to be interested. :P Then again, that same person thought F1 still had traction control lol. If American's can make fun of themselves, surely they wouldn't mind if I half-jokingly had a crack at them.

Then you should have worded it exactly this way instead of posting generalisations.


Anyway, I am entitled to state my ignorant opinion. Ignorance isn't against the forum rules last time I checked, so don't make up your own as you go along. I'm not swearing, I'm not trolling, I'm not spamming, I'm not personally insulting anyone (not trying to anyway).
I'm blabbing on about crap and posting my opinion on the state of my favourite sport and typing whatever comes to mind, and that is what the whole point of a forum is. Sorry if I pissed you off a bit, but I don't believe I broke any forum rules, therefore an infraction isn't necessary. As I stated above, I am a controversial type of guy. I care not for political correctness, and I always post what I believe in without a care in the world what other people think of it. And I definitely do not care what you think. And I do not with to argue with you, so we'll leave it there.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion no matter how popular it is. But as you can see people get offended by the ignorant way you bring it across here and this unnecessarily deviates the discussion from the actual topic.

SL1DE
10-06-2015, 07:56
That's right but your point was that adding more danger to the sports is OK because the cars are safe enough and I disagreed with that. As long as those accidents can happen it's IMO not right to stop increasing the safety for drivers and spectators.



Then you should have worded it exactly this way instead of posting generalisations.



Of course you are entitled to your opinion no matter how popular it is. But as you can see people get offended by the ignorant way you bring it across here and this unnecessarily deviates the discussion from the actual topic.

Sorry mate.

Well people usually agree with me on Facebook, I thought this forum would be the same. :P


I agreed with a couple of points (especially the sausage fest haha /s), but actually it's declining in popularity. I remember reading F1 lost +/- 150 million TV viewers in the last 6 years. The switch to pay TV will have had a big influence of course, but still that's a lot of people not bothering with it anymore. And if i take myself as an example last year i still watched a couple of races but this year i'm not watching any anymore, so i bet 2015 will see a further decline.

Perhaps. I'll admit I'm getting bored of it, there's nothing impressive about it anymore. As I said, it's just a spec series now. V8 Supercars is better than F1 these days.

I said it's more popular now because more people in my life are talking about it, and such. Australian GP got record numbers. I guess, the past couple of years, it was more popular than it has ever been, but 2015 is declining.

As boring as it is, I still find myself watching every race. But I'm like that, whenever I start watching something and enjoy it, I feel the need to watch the whole series. Wish I could stop watching it, but I can't. :P

It's still my favourite sport, hopefully they fix what they messed up and we get our F1 back.

Frog T
10-06-2015, 20:35
Ecclestone. That' what's wrong.
The money distribution. The engines. And even more than that. There are too many and too strict rules. They should bring back 3.5 L V12 engines and no fuel restriction. 2 cm wider tires and remove those stupid height restrictions for the car noses.

I agree. All the teams should be given the same amount of money from the FIA. Money for 1st,2nd & 3rd in championship but not stupid amounts.
Fans pay big money to go to races and are rewarded with cars not leaving the garage all session. The cars need to be fixable and simple. The ban on testing? WTF. Let them test behind close doors and give us the good stuff on Sunday. How many people would rather watch testing? Not many but that's what we got.

I would like to see the aero packages be the same on all cars. A range of aero packages and given to all teams. No need for the wind tunnel then let them go mad on the engines. Let them use as much fuel as they want maybe give a bonus point for the least used in the race.
ban blue flags and DRS let them work for the overtake.

apexatspeed
10-06-2015, 20:42
The ban on testing? WTF. Let them test behind close doors and give us the good stuff on Sunday.

The rule on mid season testing is there to protect smaller private teams. Smaller teams can't afford to be constantly developing their car. Wind tunnels are extremely expensive to run and maintain, so usage isn't cheap. Without the testing rules you will have something like Endurance racing where a private team will never stand a chance of winning a LMP1 race.

MiZtErNiCe
10-06-2015, 23:37
i dont get it when people say F1 is too aero dependent this year when they have removed a lot of aero past two years to promote closer racing yet the racing has got worse. the big problem with F1 is that the teams have too much input to the rules and 1 team can hold the whole sport to ransom, some people think mercedes are doing this right now and i tend to agree. Let the FIA dictate what the rules are and let the teams get on with what they are best at, racing! F1 is meant to be a sprint race not an endurance race so let them go flat out, all this lift and coast to save fuel is nonsense. Fernando Alonso saying he was driving like amateurs speaks volumes, he couldn't even have a lil race with those around him as he was using too much fuel. turned it off there and then! I have been watching F1 since late 80's and this is by far the worst racing i have ever seen in F1. All this talk about F1 having to be linked to road cars is nonsense, they are prototypes. Its not like i can go to a mercedes garage and order an F1 car for the school run. Jeez thats my F1 rant over for another week :)

Frog T
11-06-2015, 00:36
The rule on mid season testing is there to protect smaller private teams. Smaller teams can't afford to be constantly developing their car. Wind tunnels are extremely expensive to run and maintain, so usage isn't cheap. Without the testing rules you will have something like Endurance racing where a private team will never stand a chance of winning a LMP1 race.

yes but as I said If everybody was funded equal amounts of money they wouldn't need protecting. I did say in my previous post to ban the wind tunnel and give all team the same down force packages so everybody is on the same playing field aero wise. Mercedes wind tunnel is the best in world while Manner ain't got one.

GT_Racing
11-06-2015, 01:01
yes but as I said If everybody was funded equal amounts of money they wouldn't need protecting. I did say in my previous post to ban the wind tunnel and give all team the same down force packages so everybody is on the same playing field aero wise. Mercedes wind tunnel is the best in world while Manner ain't got one.

Ewww to a spec F1. No thanks buddy. Id rather have Schumacher, Vettel, or Hamiltion win every race. Hahaha. Im kidding but im kind of serious. I really dont want it to be indy car to be honest. F1's whole point is that everyone's car is different. I think they need to make a technical regulation that limits what ever is making all the dirty air, but I dont think making it a spec series is the answer.

Robbo-92
11-06-2015, 08:22
The teams wouldn't want to go to a spec series, I think it would signify a drastic change in attitude if some teams used customer cars. The teams seem to like being constructors and having full control over their car, if they went to a spec series this wouldn't be the case.

SL1DE
11-06-2015, 15:13
Kimi and I sort of share the same opinion.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raikkonen-says-f1-must-be-more-dangerous

Which goes back to my post, it does need more danger. Danger creates thrill, excitement. The sport needs corners like the peratalda, and gravel traps/sand traps. I still firmly believe the structure of the cars are safe in any front or side collision under drivers head level.

Crossing the road is more dangerous than racing in F1.

Pink_650S
11-06-2015, 15:18
Kimi and I sort of share the same opinion.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raikkonen-says-f1-must-be-more-dangerous

Which goes back to my post, it does need more danger. Danger creates thrill, excitement. The sport needs corners like the peratalda, and gravel traps/sand traps. I still firmly believe the structure of the cars are safe in any front or side collision under drivers head level.

Crossing the road is more dangerous than racing in F1.


Go back to actual and historical racetracks in countries where motorsport is being appreciated. The cars are so safe these days, you dont need 500m escape routes, (i.e. Kubica in Canada)

l share Kimi's and your opinion.
When even Christian Horner admits its dull, then something must be wrong. Team bosses are normally not that honest when it comes to these questions.

mister dog
11-06-2015, 15:25
When even Christian Horner admits its dull, then something must be wrong. Team bosses are normally not that honest when it comes to these questions.
Probably why Adrian Newey decided to step back from F1 too.

Cuba
11-06-2015, 15:29
All we need now is a FIFA scandal in F1 to bring it to it's knees :dread: Good old Bernie has dodged a couple bullets so far. The sport definitely needs a shake-up/wake-up.

Pink_650S
11-06-2015, 15:34
All we need now is a FIFA scandal in F1 to bring it to it's knees :dread: Good old Bernie has dodged a couple bullets so far. The sport definitely needs a shake-up/wake-up.

l also think that Bernie is a factor in this whole issue.
But who will be his successor after he "retires", maybe Jean Todt? And do you guys think that would change anything?

o Mike V o
11-06-2015, 15:34
They should also be able to push the tires for more than 2-3 laps before having them disintegrate.

FA RACING 01
11-06-2015, 15:36
Perhaps not more danger, but I understand what SL1DE means. More risk will spice it up to some extent. As Pink said, more sand traps, smaller or no escape routes and more exciting track designs. Nothing against Monaco, but most of the races there adds to boredom as it allows for little wheel to wheel racing.

yusupov
11-06-2015, 15:38
spec f1 lolz

o Mike V o
11-06-2015, 15:39
Carlos Sainz also made some good points a couple weeks ago.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119219


Mentally it's really, really tough to go through all of those switches while at the same time you're trying to save your tyres. At the same time you're trying to handle your battery and your brake balance for every different corner. It's tough, but in a different way. I would prefer to simplify a bit of that stuff and just make the cars quicker and make me focus more on making my car quicker. You need 20 per cent focus on your driving and 80 per cent focus on the other stuff. Normally it's the other way round.

Cuba
11-06-2015, 15:40
The fact that "independent owners" are jumping in to save doomed teams (Manor) is a bad sign. These guys must have money to burn or its a serious tax write-off for them, either way their hearts aren't in it like Williams was many years ago.

Pink_650S
11-06-2015, 15:40
As Pink said, more sand traps, smaller or no escape routes and more exciting track designs...

Adding an escape route to the Parabolica in Monza broke my f****** heart! :(
Thats a proof to me that they wont even stop for "holy" things. Its cruel...

FA RACING 01
11-06-2015, 15:49
Cruel it is. I've spent lots of "hours" in that Monza sand trap in Ferrari Challenge and GT5 on PS3 and now it's becoming a cruze around there, hence boring. No respect.

Cuba
11-06-2015, 15:52
Adding an escape route to the Parabolica in Monza broke my f****** heart! :(
Thats a proof to me that they wont even stop for "holy" things. Its cruel...
Amen! They are messing it up by the numbers! What about killing the refueling option? There was hope that it would come back to the sport; that made the strategy so interesting. I was hoping they would pull there heads out of their a$$es for a second and bring that back :mad:

Pink_650S
11-06-2015, 16:07
Cruel it is. I've spent lots of "hours" in that Monza sand trap in Ferrari Challenge and GT5 on PS3 and now it's becoming a cruze around there, hence boring. No respect.

Yea, it was so tempting to squeeze every remaining cm out of that corner, now we have asphalt and that green carpet -.-

mister dog
11-06-2015, 16:10
Amen! They are messing it up by the numbers! What about killing the refueling option? There was hope that it would come back to the sport; that made the strategy so interesting. I was hoping they would pull there heads out of their a$$es for a second and bring that back :mad:
Back when it was banned it was because it made the pit stops more important than the race itself. I still agree on that, didn't know they prevented its return but to me that's a good thing.

Pink_650S
11-06-2015, 16:28
l dont know how l think about refueling.
On one hand it can provide different strategy approaches, but on the other hand this re-invention could also lead to boredom.
We wont be able to tell though...

o Mike V o
11-06-2015, 16:34
Refueling will just lead to more overtaking in the pits. booooring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=434&v=82fskHZ4pQ0

I miss seeing drivers really push with the tires being able to handle the abuse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs-ac4GOK3M

Cuba
11-06-2015, 16:38
l dont know how l think about refueling.
On one hand it can provide different strategy approaches, but on the other hand this re-invention could also lead to boredom.
We wont be able to tell though...
Not sure if it can become more boring...Still love the sport but it's loosing support. Think about the "highlights" of the last few races. None are real wheel to wheel racing. Last good race we saw was Bahrain last year. Everything else has been drama...might as well have drama in the pits by adding fuel strategy.

Cuba
11-06-2015, 16:44
Refueling will just lead to more overtaking in the pits. booooring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=434&v=82fskHZ4pQ0

I miss seeing drivers really push with the tires being able to handle the abuse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs-ac4GOK3M
At least there will be some passing

Cuba
11-06-2015, 16:45
Thoughts on Haas Racing entering F1?

Pink_650S
11-06-2015, 16:56
Thoughts on Haas Racing entering F1?

Grid positions 21 and 22, l'm afraid...

Cuba
11-06-2015, 17:02
Grid positions 21 and 22, l'm afraid...
It'll be interesting to see another new team enter F1. I agree they historically don't do well, but I doubt last on the grid. Haas and Ferrari mix...I'm hoping they give McLaren (when they are actually running) trouble (well Honda is already doing that). I say they are a middle of the pack team, I know that's the height of optimism, but I'm looking forward to it.

apexatspeed
11-06-2015, 17:05
Adding an escape route to the Parabolica in Monza broke my f****** heart! :(
Thats a proof to me that they wont even stop for "holy" things. Its cruel...


They are messing it up by the numbers!

These are the things right here. Believe it or not motorsports aren't designed just so you can watch human beings break limbs and get seriously injured. The reason parabolic had the sand trap removed was for safety in motorcycle racing. If you are a motorcycle rider and fall of headed toward to parabolica at full speed a sand trap can destroy you. Have you ever for a second thought about what would happen to an arm, leg, or head that gets caught in sand at 150+ mph? Or were you to busy thinking about yourself from your couch?

This is part is just in regards to Cuba. Who are "they" in your response? Are you just using pronouns to point blame at people that you can't identify? The people who made the decision to remove the sand/gravel are not the same people making rules in F1.

Pink_650S
11-06-2015, 17:06
It'll be interesting to see another new team enter F1. I agree they historically don't do well, but I doubt last on the grid. Haas and Ferrari mix...I'm hoping they give McLaren trouble (well Honda is already doing that). I know that's the height of optimism, but I'm looking forward to it.

I'm interested too! Its been a while since last time a new team entered.
Haha, l dont think McLaren will be at the back of the field next year :)
It would be nice indeed, if a second new team joined, so Marussia, Haas and that other team could have their own little championship ;)

GT_Racing
11-06-2015, 17:09
I'm interested too! Its been a while since last time a new team entered.
Haha, l dont think McLaren will be at the back of the field next year :)
It would be nice indeed, if a second new team joined, so Marussia, Haas and that other team could have their own little championship ;)

I doubt Haas will be as slow as Manor. You keep talking like they are going to be trash. I dont know why you keep saying they will come in at the back of the pack. They arent hiring people who dont know what they are doing. They are coming in with partial factory support from Ferrari, and have been using their facilities to develop the car. They wont be running around with a GP2 level car like Manor.

Pink_650S
11-06-2015, 17:19
I doubt Haas will be as slow as Manor. You keep talking like they are going to be trash. I dont know why you keep saying they will come in at the back of the pack. They arent hiring people who dont know what they are doing. They are coming in with partial factory support from Ferrari, and have been using their facilities to develop the car. They wont be running around with a GP2 level car like Manor.

You dont know why l say that? Because history has shown that newcomers have a hard time.
Not all, but the majority.

We'll talk again in April 2016 ;)

Cuba
11-06-2015, 17:26
You dont know why l say that? Because history has shown that newcomers have a hard time.
Not all, but the majority.

We'll talk again in April 2016 ;)

I agree they have a steep hill to climb, but I think they are better shape that most new teams coming to the sport. I think they will be a middle of the pack team. But this sport is tough...it eats its young!

GT_Racing
11-06-2015, 17:38
These are the things right here. Believe it or not motorsports aren't designed just so you can watch human beings break limbs and get seriously injured. The reason parabolic had the sand trap removed was for safety in motorcycle racing. If you are a motorcycle rider and fall of headed toward to parabolica at full speed a sand trap can destroy you. Have you ever for a second thought about what would happen to an arm, leg, or head that gets caught in sand at 150+ mph? Or were you to busy thinking about yourself from your couch?

This is part is just in regards to Cuba. Who are "they" in your response? Are you just using pronouns to point blame at people that you can't identify? The people who made the decision to remove the sand/gravel are not the same people making rules in F1.

You didnt hear that FOM bought that section of the gravel trap from the track and put in the run off area just to ruin the "racing"? :rolleyes:

Cuba
11-06-2015, 17:43
These are the things right here. Believe it or not motorsports aren't designed just so you can watch human beings break limbs and get seriously injured. The reason parabolic had the sand trap removed was for safety in motorcycle racing. If you are a motorcycle rider and fall of headed toward to parabolica at full speed a sand trap can destroy you. Have you ever for a second thought about what would happen to an arm, leg, or head that gets caught in sand at 150+ mph? Or were you to busy thinking about yourself from your couch?


This is part is just in regards to Cuba. Who are "they" in your response? Are you just using pronouns to point blame at people that you can't identify? The people who made the decision to remove the sand/gravel are not the same people making rules in F1.

They shouldn't race silly vehicles on F1 tracks then :)

THEY as I refer to them are the ones who implement rules to make the sport boring. I don't know who THEY are and I don't care!

Hope that answers your questions.

GT_Racing
11-06-2015, 17:43
I agree they have a steep hill to climb, but I think they are better shape that most new teams coming to the sport. I think they will be a middle of the pack team. But this sport is tough...it eats its young!

Agreed. I would say if they entered this year they would be running around the Sauber/Force India/Lotus(even though points wise they have lost a lot to retirements) level at this point in the season

apexatspeed
11-06-2015, 17:47
THEY as I refer to them are the ones who implement rules to make the sport boring. I don't know who THEY are and I don't care!

Hope that answers your questions.

This right here is another example of someone complaining about things, but you really don't know what you are complaining about.

Would you or Pink 650S like to elaborate on why you feel you need paralyzed and/or maimed motorcycle racers just for your amusement? You would be fine seeing people almost killed for your self justified idea of how a track should be designed. That is a little scary, and a wee bit sad.

GT_Racing
11-06-2015, 17:52
They shouldn't race silly vehicles on F1 tracks then :)

THEY as I refer to them are the ones who implement rules to make the sport boring. I don't know who THEY are and I don't care!

Hope that answers your questions.

Yes, but Formula One Management did not add the run off to Monza. They dont own the track. If it was anybody it would be Monza doing it for motorcycle racing or the FIA making them do it. They said it was due to riders tumbling through dirt. Which is dangerous. My bet is that they want major motorcycle racing and especially the Italian Gran Prix to return to Monza.

Edit: Let me clarify I meant the motorcycle gran prix in my last sentence.

Cuba
11-06-2015, 18:02
Yes, but Formula One Management did not add the run off to Monza. They dont own the track. If it was anybody it would be Monza doing it for motorcycle racing or the FIA making them do it. They said it was due to riders tumbling through dirt. Which is dangerous. My bet is that they want major motorcycle racing and especially the Italian Gran Prix to return to Monza.

Edit: Let me clarify I meant the motorcycle gran prix in my last sentence.
I agree, I was just winding up Apex a little....Apex, just having a conversation and fun, not trying to paralyze anyone here...I feel your passion about safety man; not trying to take that away from you. Anyway, FedEx just sent me a delivery notice, my new wheel and pedals are here. It's race time!

Pink_650S
11-06-2015, 19:19
Would you or Pink 650S like to elaborate on why you feel you need paralyzed and/or maimed motorcycle racers just for your amusement?

Ahahaha!
I cant take you seriously. All you want to do is provoke and disagree with others only for the sake of disagreeing.
Clearly l didnt say l want to see injured drivers, nice try though.

apexatspeed
11-06-2015, 19:22
Ahahaha!
I cant take you seriously. All you want to do is provoke and disagree with others only for the sake of disagreeing.
Clearly l didnt say l want to see injured drivers, nice try though.

You don't actively want to see people hurt, but you just consider your "holy" corner more important than safety. Nothing about the corner changed, but you would rather it be unsafe just so it remains "holy". Nothing is worse in motorsport than people turning a blind eye to safety for preservation of a false sense of tradition.

If there was no disagreement there would be no discussion.

Pink_650S
11-06-2015, 19:37
The corner has lost its identity. And you dont need gravel to hurt or even kill drivers/riders, most fatal accidents arent due to gravel, so your argument is pretty weak. (As l said, disagree for the sake of disagreeing)

If everyone thought like you, we would end up racing on an airport with lines drawn on the ground.

apexatspeed
11-06-2015, 19:43
The corner has lost his identity. And you dont need gravel to hurt or even kill drivers/riders, most fatal accidents arent due to gravel, so your argument is pretty weak. (As l said, disagree for the sake of disagreeing)

If everyone thought like you, we would end up racing on an airport with lines drawn on the ground.

Nobody is talking about drivers in cars. The officials at Monza specifically took out the gravel trap for the safety of motorcycle riders. No you don't NEED gravel to hurt or kill someone, but it adds unnecessary danger to someone not in a car hitting it at over 150 mph. I know for certain that gravel has seriously injured motorcycle riders before. You simply can't deny it. The idea that you want to preserve "identity" over the safety of other humans is pretty sick. The best part it doesn't change how the corner is taken at all.

When regarding the safety of others my argument is very strong. Your argument is weak because you want to leave the track dangerous for "identity". Wayne Rainey is paralyzed because he was injured from safety features designed for cars. He will never walk again, and it was avoidable.

Just because I don't want people getting hurt that has nothing to do with airport lanes. You are just pulled that out of thin air.



I'll post the video you and you can watch it if you can handle it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKWyWP826Y8&feature=iv&src_vid=MoJsj-_qUlY&annotation_id=annotation_1690696013

Pink_650S
11-06-2015, 19:47
Nobody is talking about drivers in cars. The officials at Monza specifically took out the gravel trap for the safety of motorcycle riders. No you don't NEED gravel to hurt or kill someone, but it adds unnecessary danger to someone not in a car hitting it at over 150 mph. I know for certain that gravel has seriously injured motorcycle riders before. You simply can't deny it. The idea that you want to preserve "identity" over the safety of other humans is pretty sick. The best part it doesn't change how the corner is taken at all.

Just because I don't want people getting hurt that has nothing to do with airport lanes. You are just pulled that out of thin air.


Like you pulled out of thin air that l want bike riders to get hurt?
Give it a rest already, no one needs your provokative ways.

o Mike V o
11-06-2015, 19:48
The sport will begin to die if Mercedes doesn't agree to open up the engine development in season next year. Might as well say goodbye to Renault and any other future manufacturers entering the sport if nothing changes. This tarmac run off stuff is such a tiny issue compared to the big picture, I don't even think its a big deal tbh it's obvious the FIA do it on the grounds of safety, and rightly so.

apexatspeed
11-06-2015, 19:57
Like you pulled out of thin air that l want bike riders to get hurt?
Give it a rest already, no one needs your provokative ways.

I already admitted you don't explicitly want people to be hurt. You just care more about the "identity" of a corner than the actual people that race there. Otherwise you would be fine with the gravel being removed. I edited my post a couple times and I am not sure if you saw the finished product. There is a video of a Rainey (the corkscrew at Laguna Seca is named after him) crashing into a gravel trap and becoming paralyzed. The gravel trap is the reason he never raced or walked again. There is no reason for the gravel trap to stay at Monza. End of story.

xautos
11-06-2015, 20:00
Formula 1, huh?

lets see.. oh yes, Hamilton has now got an utterly insane contract signed, not including his own personal sponsorship that mercedes allows. as i understand it he made hundreds of millions or more the past year with this deal. i thought 20 million a year contracts back in the schumi days was bad enough, but this? this is just bad. i mean if mercedes went for another driver, like Nico Hulkenburg, hes fast, consistent and he would make a great number 1 driver at a fraction of the cost. then you look at the likes of marussia who are lucky to see 100m per year, i mean the costs are staggering.

the drs makes the overtaking as dull as dishwater, formula 1 is also way too reliant on technology ultra strict regulations. back in the 90's and just before the schumi domination, i mean you had a great deal of change, mclaren started the 90's, then williams came, ratzenburger and senna were killed, changes to saftey followed, benetton dominated, ferrari and mclaren surged back towards the end of the 90's, 1998 spa, and mclaren were back on top at the end of the 90's. i remember there were some technological novelties back then, thats when things were just at a good moment for formula 1, its what made it so great to watch. i think what really killed it for formula 1 was the Schumi and Ferrari domination of the early 2000's until Alonso and Renault clawed it back, not even Ferrari International Assistance could save Ferrari.

for a number of other reasons as well like Bernie himself being the problem, formula 1 right now is stale. but with indycar now taking away the equal spec series it had until last year, it was a really fun thing to watch, this season its all chevvy and i am not a fan of this aero kit change they made, it think it should be thrown away for next year.

i watch the united sportscar championship as well when i can, its a good racing series as is formula e before the manufacturers make a pigs ear out of it in the next few years.

GT_Racing
11-06-2015, 20:08
The sport will begin to die if Mercedes doesn't agree to open up the engine development in season next year. Might as well say goodbye to Renault and any other future manufacturers entering the sport if nothing changes. This tarmac run off stuff is such a tiny issue compared to the big picture, I don't even think its a big deal tbh it's obvious the FIA do it on the grounds of safety, and rightly so.

Yeah. Something needs to be done. I really think Mercedes has more tricks up there sleeve so if the other manufactures cant get huge boost we will see Mercedes taking an inch everytime some gains an inch of advantage. You can tell because they always say "Ferrari is coming" with a smile. If they were really hurting they wouldnt be smiling while talking about the competitors catching up.

I dont want to see power limits or restrictions by car (sportscar style) so letting everybody work on there engines for now seems like the best bet.

o Mike V o
11-06-2015, 20:17
Yeah. Something needs to be done. I really think Mercedes has more tricks up there sleeve so if the other manufactures cant get huge boost we will see Mercedes taking an inch everytime some gains an inch of advantage. You can tell because they always say "Ferrari is coming" with a smile. If they were really hurting they wouldnt be smiling while talking about the competitors catching up.

I dont want to see power limits or restrictions by car (sportscar style) so letting everybody work on there engines for now seems like the best bet.

Merc definitely has more speed in the bank, it doesn't matter how many tokens Ferrari, Honda or Renault spend this season, Merc will always open up the advantage as much as they need to without even using tokens. They will be on top again next year no doubt. All the other teams want a change but it has to be unanimous decision, so really it is in Merc's hands. Renault will not be able to make their unreliable pu on par with Merc by the deadline of Feb 28th 2016, they will remain uncompetitve all season (maybe even worse off than now) and will have no reason to stay in the sport.

I get that Merc did a great job and they deserve credit but locking your rival teams into uncompetitiveness is bullshit and makes me question wether or not teams should be making these decisions in the first place. I can't even believe they would all agreed to this! And people thought the Red Bull 'domination' was bad, you ain't seen nothin yet!

MiZtErNiCe
12-06-2015, 00:10
Yes, but Formula One Management did not add the run off to Monza. They dont own the track. If it was anybody it would be Monza doing it for motorcycle racing or the FIA making them do it. They said it was due to riders tumbling through dirt. Which is dangerous. My bet is that they want major motorcycle racing and especially the Italian Gran Prix to return to Monza.

Edit: Let me clarify I meant the motorcycle gran prix in my last sentence. was at the request of FIM/dorna the people who run the superbikes series. moto gp wont go to monza and tbh i wish they would move the F1 gp from monza to mugello.

SL1DE
12-06-2015, 05:27
Perhaps not more danger, but I understand what SL1DE means. More risk will spice it up to some extent. As Pink said, more sand traps, smaller or no escape routes and more exciting track designs. Nothing against Monaco, but most of the races there adds to boredom as it allows for little wheel to wheel racing.

I actually like Monaco, it's good when the drivers can push the tyres, like Webber in 2010, kept pushing to build a 15-20 second gap before a safety car came out, it was good to watch, an inch away from disaster.

But yeah, they need to bring back sandtraps, and get rid of the Tilke circuits because they suck, stop going to countries like Azerbaijan.

Sandtraps are safer anyway, in some cases, where the run-off areas are if a driver has a problem he's going straight into the wall without any sandtrap there to slow him down. Sure the car can dig in and roll it if you go in there sideways, but that rarely happens, and that's why the roll hoop is as strong as it is anyway.

But that's only part of the spice, the cars still need to be loud and obnoxious, with more cylinders.

Maybe a mixed formula like the old days, Honda will have their V6 Turbo, Ferrari with their LaFerrari V12, that'll be cool. How does an engine dyno work? Could they put something in the ECU/Computer which limits power or sends the FIA a reading of how much power is being used? Say if your engine makes more than 1,000hp and a certain amount of torque then you get disqualified, that'll keep a level playing field. An engine dyno small enough to fit in a car lol. Surely one of the tech guru's in F1 could figure it out if it doesn't already exist.

GT_Racing
12-06-2015, 05:54
I actually like Monaco, it's good when the drivers can push the tyres, like Webber in 2010, kept pushing to build a 15-20 second gap before a safety car came out, it was good to watch, an inch away from disaster.

But yeah, they need to bring back sandtraps, and get rid of the Tilke circuits because they suck, stop going to countries like Azerbaijan.

Sandtraps are safer anyway, in some cases, where the run-off areas are if a driver has a problem he's going straight into the wall without any sandtrap there to slow him down. Sure the car can dig in and roll it if you go in there sideways, but that rarely happens, and that's why the roll hoop is as strong as it is anyway.

But that's only part of the spice, the cars still need to be loud and obnoxious, with more cylinders.

Maybe a mixed formula like the old days, Honda will have their V6 Turbo, Ferrari with their LaFerrari V12, that'll be cool. How does an engine dyno work? Could they put something in the ECU/Computer which limits power or sends the FIA a reading of how much power is being used? Say if your engine makes more than 1,000hp and a certain amount of torque then you get disqualified, that'll keep a level playing field. An engine dyno small enough to fit in a car lol. Surely one of the tech guru's in F1 could figure it out if it doesn't already exist.

Gleefully ignoring my WEC comment are we? Ill give you the benefit of the doubt that you didnt see it so Ill hand you a link. ;)

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29839-Is-Formula-One-dead/page17

Comment #164

I can tell you barely know what you are talking about since you praise Monaco and then get mad at Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan has never been raced by F1 before so you have no idea whether they should be able to host races or not. You like Monaco because it is a tight street course and then have a problem when they add another street course. :rolleyes: If you had a logical reason you didnt explain it, but I doubt you do.

FA RACING 01
12-06-2015, 06:10
was at the request of FIM/dorna the people who run the superbikes series. moto gp wont go to monza and tbh i wish they would move the F1 gp from monza to mugello.

Besides the fact that I would hate that [personal preference], don't you think moving F1 from Monza to Mugello will bring safety issues to MotoGP. I agree with a previous poster re. the risks involved with sand traps for bikes and Mugello has a big sand trap at the first corner after the long and fast start/finish straight.

apexatspeed
12-06-2015, 06:16
But yeah, they need to bring back sandtraps

Sand Traps are not put into circuits and are being removed from circuits for safety reasons. Cars are not the only things being raced on these tracks. When a motorcycle racer slide into a gravel trap at 100+ mph they can get seriously hurt. A limb or head sticking into gravel at high speed will do serious damage. Go ask motorcycle racing legend Wayne Rainey. He is now paralyzed from sliding into a sand trap. Crashes like the one below are reasons why they put run off areas on tracks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoJsj-_qUlY

o Mike V o
12-06-2015, 08:40
Horrible crash, ouch. It would not be hard for a race car to go sideways through a sand trap and roll over either. Especially if they are approaching a corner like Parabolica.

MiZtErNiCe
12-06-2015, 11:04
Besides the fact that I would hate that [personal preference], don't you think moving F1 from Monza to Mugello will bring safety issues to MotoGP. I agree with a previous poster re. the risks involved with sand traps for bikes and Mugello has a big sand trap at the first corner after the long and fast start/finish straight. what kind of issues do you mean i dont understand. Do you remember marc marquez's first time at mugello when he messed up at end of straight in practice and went into it at over 180mph? his race suit recorded impacts over 20g to each shoulder yet he walked away with just a scraped chin. Luck i suppose. I just think mugello is a better track than monza and the F1 cars would be awesome there (personal preference). Motorsport is dangerous no matter what category and it will never be 100% but you can always make it a bit safer for these guys and if that means tarmac run offs so be it.

xautos
12-06-2015, 11:16
Sand Traps are not put into circuits and are being removed from circuits for safety reasons. Cars are not the only things being raced on these tracks. When a motorcycle racer slide into a gravel trap at 100+ mph they can get seriously hurt. A limb or head sticking into gravel at high speed will do serious damage. Go ask motorcycle racing legend Wayne Rainey. He is now paralyzed from sliding into a sand trap. Crashes like the one below are reasons why they put run off areas on tracks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoJsj-_qUlY

the front folded from under him and he was already tumbling well before he reached the sand trap which could of easily broke his neck. but if the sand trap was closer and a rider was overdriving the bike and ran out of grip and clipped the sand, for certain it would be alarming. unfortunately these things happen and i am not entirely convinced the sand trap had anything to do with it as most of the accident happened before.

safety is fine, but motorsport has always been about taking risks and the danger involved.

FA RACING 01
12-06-2015, 12:35
what kind of issues do you mean i dont understand. Do you remember marc marquez's first time at mugello when he messed up at end of straight in practice and went into it at over 180mph? his race suit recorded impacts over 20g to each shoulder yet he walked away with just a scraped chin. Luck i suppose. I just think mugello is a better track than monza and the F1 cars would be awesome there (personal preference). Motorsport is dangerous no matter what category and it will never be 100% but you can always make it a bit safer for these guys and if that means tarmac run offs so be it.

Marc might have been just lucky, I don't know, but I think history showed that sand traps does indeed carries many risk for the bike riders. Tarmac escapes will certainly solve the problem, but then might add to boredom of F1 if it moves there.

I heard Ferrari under Luca was quite keen to move the F1 GP from Monza to Mugello, but lately their new team boss is outspoken for F1 to stick to the Monza roots.

Cuba
12-06-2015, 13:26
I'm starting a petition to have all sand traps removed from golf courses. There's no place for twisted ankles and bent clubs in golf ;)

MiZtErNiCe
12-06-2015, 13:39
Marc might have been just lucky, I don't know, but I think history showed that sand traps does indeed carries many risk for the bike riders. Tarmac escapes will certainly solve the problem, but then might add to boredom of F1 if it moves there.

I heard Ferrari under Luca was quite keen to move the F1 GP from Monza to Mugello, but lately their new team boss is outspoken for F1 to stick to the Monza roots. Mark Webber was very keen on going to mugello and im sure they done a mid season test there a few years ago, i have to say its one of my favourite tracks and the surrounding area is just beautiful, would love to live there tbh :) If mugello was going to add tarmac run off it would have done it already so dont think that will happen. Im not sure why people say a run off makes it boring, nothing boring about either monza or mugello its the wheel to wheel racing that makes it exciting IMO

Nobody seems bothered that there is tarmac run off at the side of the puhon corner (hope thats right spelling) and its still one of the best in the world

mister dog
12-06-2015, 14:34
Im not sure why people say a run off makes it boring, nothing boring about either monza or mugello its the wheel to wheel racing that makes it exciting IMO

Nobody seems bothered that there is tarmac run off at the side of the puhon corner (hope thats right spelling) and its still one of the best in the world
It has more to do with the fact that the old school racing drivers had to watch out, because going wide on the grass or gravel meant you would spin or possibly get stuck. Because of modern run off areas drivers can now surpass the limit easily with no consequences to their pace.

I don't mind them for safety reasons here and there, but you almost don't see a patch of grass anymore next to many Tilkedromes.

MiZtErNiCe
12-06-2015, 14:51
tilke has done a few good tracks though, istanbul park in turkey is epic, bahrain normally produces a good race, circuit of americas is awesome, korea is good track pity it got removed and im sure he was involved with setting up valencia and singapore 2 of my favourite street tracks with hardly any run offs.

FA RACING 01
12-06-2015, 14:57
I'm starting a petition to have all sand traps removed from golf courses. There's no place for twisted ankles and bent clubs in golf ;)

Won't solve the safety problem as players and spectators might still drown in the water holes.

mister dog
12-06-2015, 15:00
tilke has done a few good tracks though, istanbul park in turkey is epic, bahrain normally produces a good race, circuit of americas is awesome, korea is good track pity it got removed and im sure he was involved with setting up valencia and singapore 2 of my favourite street tracks with hardly any run offs.

They are nothing compared to circuits like Suzuka, Classic Imola, Classic Hockenheim and many more of the old non-Tilke tracks. Nothing i say! http://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/teacher.gif

;)

MiZtErNiCe
12-06-2015, 15:08
suzuka is the best circuit on the F1 calendar IMO and spa is a close second but there has still been work done on both cicuits to improve safety since the good old bad days :)

Cuba
12-06-2015, 15:29
Won't solve the safety problem as players and spectators might still drown in the water holes.
Fill them in with sand...oh wait.

Rug22
12-06-2015, 15:45
I don't mind 1 manufacturer getting the cars to work around the rules in their favour, Williams in 92, Brawn 09, and Red Bull 2010 for 4yrs.

If we you away from the new engines the biggest overall issue for me is the amount of technology in F1 these days, sack off pre-race engine mapping for the ERS, ditch DRS and let's go back to simple racing.

Even with Vettel winning the title over those 4yrs we still had a pretty decent championship.

Everyone in F1 thinks Ferrari has a close gap to the Mercede, bbut if they let Hamilton or Rosberg to unleash that cars full potential Vettel won't be anywhere near them:(

WWhat does make me laugh the most, is that I read Renault wanted the engine change to make it more relevant to Road cars and their plans, yet their engine wasn't that great before and now they are only better than Honda lol

apexatspeed
12-06-2015, 16:18
the front folded from under him and he was already tumbling well before he reached the sand trap which could of easily broke his neck.

It is said that the gravel trap is what paralyzed him. Whether you believe it or not is up to you. Other riders still get seriously hurt from gravel traps, so any track that wants to host motorcycle races needs to have run off areas.

BDR Daz
12-06-2015, 16:21
WWhat does make me laugh the most, is that I read Renault wanted the engine change to make it more relevant to Road cars and their plans, yet their engine wasn't that great before and now they are only better than Honda lol

This is the best part in the whole Saga !!

apexatspeed
12-06-2015, 16:31
Everyone loves to blame Herman Tilke for tracks with run off areas when he designs the tracks to reach the highest FIA standards on their grading system. For safetym new tracks that want a lot of different types of racing need run off areas. Like Mizternice says Tilke actually makes some pretty good tracks. This isn't Tilke trying to piss off a bunch of ignoramuses who are too afraid to let go of the past.

mister dog
14-06-2015, 20:24
Everyone loves to blame Herman Tilke for tracks with run off areas when he designs the tracks to reach the highest FIA standards on their grading system. For safetym new tracks that want a lot of different types of racing need run off areas. Like Mizternice says Tilke actually makes some pretty good tracks. This isn't Tilke trying to piss off a bunch of ignoramuses who are too afraid to let go of the past.

It's not only the overdose of asphalt, it's also that many of his circuits have the same weird sections; long straight followed by ridiculously tight corners and Mickey Mouse sections.

apexatspeed
14-06-2015, 20:29
It's not only the overdose of asphalt, it's also that many of his circuits have the same weird sections; long straight followed by ridiculously tight corners and Mickey Mouse sections.

I like tracks that are more than straights. hair pins, and chicanes.

What is a mickey mouse section? I've never heard that before.

mister dog
14-06-2015, 20:32
I like tracks that are more than straights. hair pins, and chicanes.

What is a mickey mouse section? I've never heard that before.
Left-right-left-right-hairpin... like some kart tracks have but then for racing cars.
It's all about preferences but i like circuits that have mostly fast corners and a good flow it, the older ones were always designed with that concept in mind.

o Mike V o
15-06-2015, 08:36
http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/0/11/10/14/201304/ob_e4c3bf_show-img-l2nvbnrlbnqvzgftl3n0yxrpyy9mb3jtdwxhltev.gif

example of mickey mouse sections - from turn 5 to finish line. In the words of Kimi Raikkonen “Well, the first few turns are quite good, but the rest of it is ****”

kc76
16-06-2015, 12:31
My problem with F1 is the rules ! They're too strict, don't allow for enough innovation and when a team does find something they're find gets banned ! f-ducts , double diffuser, blown diffusr etc etc

Ian Bell
20-06-2015, 13:03
That was fun. Rollercoaster of emotions for me as I'm a Hamilton fan :)

KartKingCorre
20-06-2015, 13:20
http://en.f1i.com/news/15025-engine-regulations-mean-an-f1-car-could-complete-le-mans.html

They should make this happen :)

mkstatto
20-06-2015, 13:21
This engine penalty nonsense is getting a bit old now. You have to allow the teams to develop without fear of grid or time penalties. You can change parts that adds performance if it is for reliability and of course the development tokens. But for teams chasing an engine performance and reliability deficit already your almost being penalised twice for a poor engine in the attempt to catch up. Honda must be thinking why they have bothered.

Neil Bateman
20-06-2015, 13:44
25 place grid penalty is ridiculous, plus a 10 second stop go because you cant drop enough places on the grid to complete the penalty?

If the grid is only 20 cars why have a penalty in place that it is impossible to serve at that race weekend without incurring a further 10 second stop go, surely it would make far more sense to just have one penalty which drops you to the back.

If you use marussia as an example the penalty makes no sense as they are always there to start off with and therefore would never be able to serve that penalty, its not the teams fault so why should they suffer further if the penalty is impossible to enforce at that race.

cornishbrooksy
20-06-2015, 14:10
Watching the GP2 race after quail and its amazing......putting F1 to shame at the moment.

Certainly sometimes GP2 is a bit amateurish with some really stupid mistakes, but the racing is incredibly close and today is no exception.

FA RACING 01
20-06-2015, 14:16
That was fun. Rollercoaster of emotions for me as I'm a Hamilton fan :)

:miserable: Graveltrap emotions for me as I'm an Alonso fan. :miserable: And Kimi provides no comfort either. :dejection:

Ian Bell
20-06-2015, 14:17
Watching the GP2 race after quail and its amazing......putting F1 to shame at the moment.

Certainly sometimes GP2 is a bit amateurish with some really stupid mistakes, but the racing is incredibly close and today is no exception.

Agreed, fantastic three and four wide battles all over the place.

Robbo-92
20-06-2015, 15:23
This engine penalty nonsense is getting a bit old now. You have to allow the teams to develop without fear of grid or time penalties. You can change parts that adds performance if it is for reliability and of course the development tokens. But for teams chasing an engine performance and reliability deficit already your almost being penalised twice for a poor engine in the attempt to catch up. Honda must be thinking why they have bothered.

I do wonder if a team actually has to show that adding part X will improve the reliability, I only ponder this as I know Mercedes brought some upgrades (can't remember what exactly, I know it definitely included updated software/engine modes) disguised as reliability upgrades, this is despite the fact that the Mercedes is the most reliable power unit. Then you get Renault and Honda who are struggling to even make their engines reliable without spending their tokens. Renault and (to a degree) Honda aren't helping themselves as they both should have reliability sorted by now (definitely Renault) but they should be given more tokens to actually bring performance upto that of the Mercedes, Ferrari have done a good job closing the gap over the winter as well.

mcscott
20-06-2015, 16:15
F1 feels so fake these days in my opinion. If you want some real racing with real innovation then you're better of watching FIA World Endurance Championship.