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Casey Ringley
09-06-2015, 15:38
Hope you guys are enjoying the new cars! Pleased we got to release a couple more Le Mans winners this week before the race; there will be even more added to the list soon enough. Thought you might like to see some of the internal notes we had during physics development of the cars. Do feel free to ask if you have any questions about these cars and I'll do my best to keep up with the thread for answers.

Bentley Continental GT3


- Initial pass getting all data from Bentley in place. We received good aero, engine and setup data plus suspension points from CAD and a good idea what the torque curve looks like without the FIA boost restrictions. Used that to model the effect of the 2015 BoP boost pressures and it all looks reasonable with a strong 540hp output near 6800rpm. Sweet drive. Over to Doug's shop now for finishing and AI work.

- Nice drive out of the box from Casey. Only adjusted default shock package for better turnin and corner exit response. Accepts the throttle better especially.



Bentley Speed 8


Lovely car. Might be my new favorite in the game. Much of the setup and technical info has been lost to time, unfortunately, but Bentley were able to get us a nice, old-fashioned blueprint for suspension geometry and basic layout. Mulsanne's Corner and some Peter Elleray interviews proved useful for the aero and the engine could easily be extrapolated from info on the 3.6L Audi V8. It's an awesome contrast to the BMW V12 LMR (and, soon, the Audi R8) with more power (+40hp) and about 30% more downforce but more drag, the coupe design means a higher CoG and narrower tires by 2 inches. Still a totally different experience to the modern LMP1 with their super wide tires and yet another 30% more downforce or so. Low downforce setup is good for 13 laps at Le Mans if you conserve and cruise in the high 3:30s. Le Mans plus the DLC with this group of cars is enough to make the whole game for me. Just awesome stuff.



BMW V12 LMR


- Initial pass at physics. Suspension geometry mostly from JF's very nice model. Very simple old car with no fancy suspension ideas or super high downforce. Just low drag, great engine, and a solid chassis with nice, predictable handling. Very different experience from our modern LMPs and, personally, one I much prefer. Super happy to have this car in game. It was a big part of one of my first mods for SCGT & F1C back in the day, so it's very cool to experience it on all our new tech.

- Some caster work and spindle inertia's increased. FFB re adjusted. AI speed rebalanced. Eyepoint was way off. Reset that so i could see out of the car



McLaren F1 GTR’97 Long Tail


- Initial pass at physics. Minor suspension geometry changes as were allowed in the FIA GT rules. Wild car. 915kg and 630hp with average-to-poor aero but a really nice suspension which actually ran quite soft for the performance level of the car. Strengths are acceleration and general speed. Weaknesses: sustained cornering. It just really struggle for front aero. Going to let it run at the claimed minimum weight and max power any team found in 1997 so that it can keep up better with the CLK-LM.

- Re balanced the AI speed. Did some caster work on the suspension. Some setup changes to balance. re adjusted the FFB. Moved the eyepoint back



Mercedes CLK-LM


- Initial pass at physics. This thing is absolutely a prototype in disguise. 940kg with a full-carbon monocoque, carbon fibre brakes, very advanced aero for the time, in-board suspension and the engine of a Group C car redesigned with a flat crank to be even better without turbos. If you compare it to LMP900 cars from the following couple of years, the CLK-LM was barely 1s slower at several tracks despite much narrower tires AND! considering that GT1 rules required a 30mm skid plate on new cars, so this one ran much higher than Mercedes would have wanted and they severely compromised the suspension setup as a result. Photo reference shows it using 230N/mm springs at the front on a 1:1 motion ratio, for a natural frequency upwards of 5.75Hz. That's practically formula-car-stiff so that it could stay close to the aerodynamic sweet spot. GT1 in the late-90s was bonkers.

- AI speed balancing to player. Raised collison mesh 30mm, eyepoint moved back and down.
Damper knee speed: 40/60 front and rear

- some caster work, spindle inertia's increased. Adjusted FFB, AI speed re-balanced. In my opinion the nicest of the LM lot to drive.

danowat
09-06-2015, 16:46
THIS is the kind of detail I like, more more more please!!!

apexatspeed
09-06-2015, 17:32
The R8 is coming!?!?!?! I wish it was in the same pack as the V12 LMR? Is there anyway we will be able to purchase cars individually or purchase cars that can be raced against each other?

Yorkie065
09-06-2015, 17:52
Loving the DLC and loving the detail in the post. A couple of things that I wanted to point out, and these may just be personal notes coming from myself with things I don't like about the cars, and what I perceive to be un-realistic so I could be completely wrong!?

Bentley Continental GT3- Rear end is extremely loose! I can understand it from the traction point of view as it's a very powerful engine, and that I don't mind, I can manage and deal with that using less of the right foot. But what gets me is how loose it is at medium to high speed as well. Coming through turn 2 at Silverstone GP for example in 5th gear, the rear end just slid away from me gently with very little warning. I was pretty much full throttle and took it how I'd take any other GT3 car, but it just seems soo light and floaty at the rear on the default setup that it breaks away too easily at high speed. Some tweaks could probably reduce it, and more rear downforce would probably also help, but I'm wondering if this is a real trait of the car or not as it doesn't seem quite right to me.

Mclaren F1 GTR Long Tail- Soo sensitive around neutral steering angle. Just small, millimeter movements to the left or right shifts the car around down the straight you can sometimes end up zig-zagging a fair bit unless you properly focus and tense up on the steering trying to hold it dead straight. Again on default setup so some tweaks could probably nullify this effect but it's a little irritating as to how floaty it feels yawing left to right down the straights.

Other than that, have no other issues with any of the cars and they behave how I'd expect them to. Done a couple of laps in all of them so far and the Speed 8 and the Merc....they are both an absolute joy to drive! Love them both! If anyone can confirm that they are also getting the above, or that these are realistic traits of the two cars mentioned, or there are any changes that can be made to rectify them, that would be greatly appreciated :)

Equation
09-06-2015, 17:56
Thanks for information. I like read where everything based.

Mascot
09-06-2015, 19:22
Fantastic insight - thanks Casey.

Umer Ahmad
09-06-2015, 19:28
THIS is the kind of detail I like, more more more please!!!

You should consider joining as WMD member for the next project, it's like this every day. Lot of information and chance to talk directly with these guys. Everyone is welcome but only PC builds are for member testing.

FarChri
09-06-2015, 19:37
I was just testing the F1 GTR long tail and noticed that the tyre wear was higher than other cars I've tested already. After two rounds on Brno the indicator shows me 9 on the FL tyre (without overheated it and shown with pCARS Profiler).

Is this already the "new / higher wear" or is this typical for these series cars / compound?

Casey Ringley
09-06-2015, 20:16
No, I think that could just be the F1 GTR being prone to understeer. Doug just finished the wear rate adjustments on Friday after 3 weeks and about 200 hours of testing. It's a really good change getting them back to appropriate lifetimes. Made tire selection a more important factor in GT3 during testing and will add a nice strategy element for anyone doing long MP races. I suspect is was a code change for CPU performance improvements late in the game that lowered the effective wear rates.

FarChri
09-06-2015, 20:26
Ok, I noticed that understeering too. Thanks for the info!

I love the new cars. The Merc is my favorite at the moment - the sound, the way it drives,... just perfect. Real great work guys!!!

NemethR
09-06-2015, 20:26
No question here (as I am dumb for these technical things), i just want to say, you guys did an amazing job again, altough the F1 is undriveable for me, the others are just superb.

I found my new favorite car in the game... The BMW V12 LMR.

AfterAll14
09-06-2015, 20:34
Any chance of 1998 Porsche 911 GT1 in future?

FarChri
09-06-2015, 20:36
It took me about 10 - 15 rounds with the F1, than it felt really good too. I think this car needs an different drivingstyle than the Merc does - but when you you get into, it's really fun to drive.

The sound of the BMW V12 is also really nice. I just haven't driven it as much as the others - just tested it for a few rounds. But that car is also great!

ryandtw
09-06-2015, 20:39
Any chance of 1998 Porsche 911 GT1 in future?

Unless SMS has the license to bring Porsche to pCARS (which, outside of EA and Forza, is very unlikely, including Gran Turismo)...that is a no. :(

Martini Da Gasalini
09-06-2015, 20:52
Unless SMS has the license to bring Porsche to pCARS (which, outside of EA and Forza, is very unlikely, including Gran Turismo)...that is a no. :(

they got Porsche

Ruf CTR3
Ruf CTR3 SMS-R
Ruf RGT-8
Ruf RGT-8 GT3

;)

jsykes
09-06-2015, 20:54
The question is, how accurate is the physics of the Mercedes doing a back flip at Le Mans? Did they get that right? :rolleyes:

AfterAll14
09-06-2015, 20:56
The question is, how accurate is the physics of the Mercedes doing a back flip at Le Mans? Did they get that right? :rolleyes:

I'm going to find out... tomorrow...

RobMUFC1987
09-06-2015, 20:59
The Bentley GT3 is a handful, but a few tweaks with the set up and it's consistently faster than other GT3s at Dubai.

Casey Ringley
09-06-2015, 21:04
It took me about 10 - 15 rounds with the F1, than it felt really good too. I think this car needs an different drivingstyle than the Merc does - but when you you get into, it's really fun to drive.


QFT. The F1 GTR and Merc are very VERY different cars running in the same class. F1 GTR really started life as a proper road car and the suspension reflects this. Much softer, different roll centers meant more for smooth driving at highway speeds. Treat it like a quick road car, really. The CLK-LM was pure racecar and practically a prototype like the Bentley Speed 8 under the surface and then they made a couple of road versions to race it as a 'production' GT. Completely different design philosophy.

Casey Ringley
09-06-2015, 21:05
The question is, how accurate is the physics of the Mercedes doing a back flip at Le Mans? Did they get that right? :rolleyes:

Wrong year (common mistake). The flying car was the 1999 CLR. I doubt Mercedes would have been too happy about us asking to feature that one in game. :)

FarChri
09-06-2015, 21:13
QFT. The F1 GTR and Merc are very VERY different cars running in the same class. F1 GTR really started life as a proper road car and the suspension reflects this. Much softer, different roll centers meant more for smooth driving at highway speeds. Treat it like a quick road car, really. The CLK-LM was pure racecar and practically a prototype like the Bentley Speed 8 under the surface and then they made a couple of road versions to race it as a 'production' GT. Completely different design philosophy.

Cleares things up. They behave completly different and now I know the reason why. As already said, I love them both.

jsykes
09-06-2015, 21:18
Wrong year (common mistake). The flying car was the 1999 CLR. I doubt Mercedes would have been too happy about us asking to feature that one in game. :)

Oh true, I wasnt paying too close attention to which car it was. I doubt they would have wanted to relive that one either.

BanjoMaster
09-06-2015, 21:20
Wrong year (common mistake). The flying car was the 1999 CLR. I doubt Mercedes would have been too happy about us asking to feature that one in game. :)

Ah yes, the CLR, the car that never existed as far as MB is concerned...

Top thread by the way. It was news to me that the FIA GT-spec CLK LM had a flat crank V8! I only remember it making decidedly cross-planey rumblings, which was obviously the LM-spec car. Interestingly, Le Mans was a disaster for MB that year, but the car won every round of the FIA GT series. All everyone ever remembers is Porsche winning Le Mans that year, but they got annihilated by Merc for the rest of the year. Aaaaaaaaaaahh, back in the day :)

Casey, you haven't come from the VirtuaLM team by any chance, have you?

Casey Ringley
09-06-2015, 21:26
Casey, you haven't come from the VirtuaLM team by any chance, have you?

Might have been a founding member of VirtuaLM along with another SMS teammate, Rod Chong, yes. Does it show in the car selection? :)

Sure was a shame how it performed at LM that year. Had the speed but it just wasn't built for 24 hours. The sound confused me, too, when seeing the car at the Homestead FIA GT race later that year. There wasn't exactly coverage of the other races here and it sure didn't sound like the one at Le Mans (or any other 5L V8 I had heard at the time).

BanjoMaster
09-06-2015, 21:45
Might have been a founding member of VirtuaLM along with another SMS teammate, Rod Chong, yes. Does it show in the car selection? :)

Just a little bit ;) Hope you get to bring us more cars from the '98-'99 seasons, truly one of the most exciting eras there's ever been at Le Mans. My first year there was 2000, so missed the GT1 crescendo by a year, but I can still remember being more excited about the 'Vette vs Viper head to head than I was about the propotypes. Good times!


Sure was a shame how it performed at LM that year. Had the speed but it just wasn't built for 24 hours. The sound confused me, too, when seeing the car at the Homestead FIA GT race later that year. There wasn't exactly coverage of the other races here and it sure didn't sound like the one at Le Mans (or any other 5L V8 I had heard at the time).

I need to do a proper Youtube search for some good soundclips of the car in FIA GT trim. 5 litres is big capacity for a flatcrank as well. There must have been some vibration off of it!

Jan Studenski
09-06-2015, 22:12
...
Bentley Continental GT3- Rear end is extremely loose! I can understand it from the traction point of view as it's a very powerful engine, and that I don't mind, I can manage and deal with that using less of the right foot. But what gets me is how loose it is at medium to high speed as well. Coming through turn 2 at Silverstone GP for example in 5th gear, the rear end just slid away from me gently with very little warning. I was pretty much full throttle and took it how I'd take any other GT3 car, but it just seems soo light and floaty at the rear on the default setup that it breaks away too easily at high speed. Some tweaks could probably reduce it, and more rear downforce would probably also help, but I'm wondering if this is a real trait of the car or not as it doesn't seem quite right to me.
...

Lower the tire pressure and it gets much more stable ... i use for imola 2.00 front 1.90 rear .... (that was only for the first laps ... i didnt continue to test)

Its the fastest car there i think (someone did after his first 10 Laps an 1:41.5 in Online Qualification)

Actually i think nearly all GT3 cars have way too high default tire pressure

Psychomatrix
09-06-2015, 23:00
they got Porsche

Ruf CTR3
Ruf CTR3 SMS-R
Ruf RGT-8
Ruf RGT-8 GT3

;)

It's not the same. ruf can't replace race cars like the 962 C, 911 GT1 Evo 98, 911 GT3 RSR (991, 997, 996), 935 or the 919 hybrid. That cars are icons. But it's nice to have the cars in the game. Specially the RGT-8 GT3. Only the rear wing seems false to me. I prefer the big wing like the one from the 911 GT3 R. On the other side that special rear wing make the car looking very unique.

arveena
10-06-2015, 00:25
A lot of people are telling me.that the bentley GT3 seems to be the fastest GT3 car by quite a margin. That would be quite the shame for open lobbys as well as league races. I know its 2015 BOP but its not like it is faster in Reallife it should be at the same level than the r8 z4 etc
Maybe upgrade the other GT3 to 2015bop as well?

apexatspeed
10-06-2015, 00:34
A lot of people are telling me.that the bentley GT3 seems to be the fastest GT3 car by quite a margin. That would be quite the shame for open lobbys as well as league races. I know its 2015 BOP but its not like it is faster in Reallife it should be at the same level than the r8 z4 etc
Maybe upgrade the other GT3 to 2015bop as well?

Now let me make this clear. What I say next is under the assumption that the Bentley GT3 is the fastest GT3 car by a large margin. I don't know because I have never used it.

The best incentive to buy the GT3 car would be if it was better than the other GT3 cars. That could be a reason.

Doug914
10-06-2015, 00:48
I was just testing the F1 GTR long tail and noticed that the tyre wear was higher than other cars I've tested already. After two rounds on Brno the indicator shows me 9 on the FL tyre (without overheated it and shown with pCARS Profiler).

Is this already the "new / higher wear" or is this typical for these series cars / compound?

This car has the narrowest tires of the lot too. So That also makes wear a bit higher If you even remotely drive it sideways ;)

Alan Dallas
10-06-2015, 05:13
Bentley Speed 8

I found the rear rebound rates to be too low in default setup. The rear springs seem to want to catapult the rear into the air under the slightest touch of the brakes. Otherwise, this thing is BEAST!!

N0body Of The Goat
10-06-2015, 06:12
Great bunch of cars, all showing very dynamic handling from under- to oversteer around Spa with default setup. :)

Casey Ringley
10-06-2015, 11:35
A lot of people are telling me.that the bentley GT3 seems to be the fastest GT3 car by quite a margin. That would be quite the shame for open lobbys as well as league races. I know its 2015 BOP but its not like it is faster in Reallife it should be at the same level than the r8 z4 etc
Maybe upgrade the other GT3 to 2015bop as well?

Get us more evidence than 'quite a margin' and we can work on the BoP. It was mixed in well with the rest during testing here.

David Semperger
10-06-2015, 12:04
A lot of people are telling me.that the bentley GT3 seems to be the fastest GT3 car by quite a margin. That would be quite the shame for open lobbys as well as league races. I know its 2015 BOP but its not like it is faster in Reallife it should be at the same level than the r8 z4 etc
Maybe upgrade the other GT3 to 2015bop as well?

I had quite a few GT3 races online yesterday and had absolutely no problem overtaking the Bentleys with my SLS, especially on the straights. Of course skill levels differ a lot online and I have no idea what setup each people used, but the Bentley definitely isn't the all around best in the GT3 category. In fact, I had the most trouble with the McLarens, but tests done by multiple people at various tracks shows that even the MP4-12C isn't a clear cut winner everywhere.

EDIT: Casey, I hope you don't mind this question, but what was the state of these cars at the time of release? I've seen people claim that they were already finished by then and the DLC merely unlocks them. However, given the fact that WMD didn't have access to them I don't think that's quite true, since we could test cars in early states before that. I ask because I'd like to set the record straight if possible.

Casey Ringley
10-06-2015, 14:21
Definitely not done at time of release. We only got them through final QA testing and changes for manufacturer approvals after the release build went out to the presses.

Umer Ahmad
10-06-2015, 14:35
FYI, Bentley GT3 did win the PWC (usa) in 2014 vs. other GT3 competitors

It's no joke.

http://youtu.be/mOeHJ0PuKnU

ao1977
10-06-2015, 14:44
Is it just me or does the Mercedes CLK-LM need more time to start using automatic transmission and clutch?

While I don't have delays worth mentioning with other cars, in the CLK every start is like "Oh look, green lights! Wow! Let's touch this gear shifter thingy. Feels niiiice, bro! Oh look, there's the first opponent overtaking us, what do you think about releasing the clutch? Wheeeee, heeeere we go!".

Apart from that, I love that car.
http://i.imgur.com/jXiad.gif

Pink_650S
10-06-2015, 14:46
Hope you guys are enjoying the new cars! Pleased we got to release a couple more Le Mans winners this week before the race; there will be even more added to the list soon enough. Thought you might like to see some of the internal notes we had during physics development of the cars. Do feel free to ask if you have any questions about these cars and I'll do my best to keep up with the thread for answers.

THIS!
Take a close look at this, Gaming Industry, and learn!

Thank you for all the effort you put into your game and the communication with your community.
Loving the new cars.
You guys are awesome!

Sonic6L
10-06-2015, 15:16
http://i.imgur.com/jXiad.gif

;).

hkraft300
10-06-2015, 16:11
Apart from that, I love that car.
http://i.imgur.com/jXiad.gif

Made my day

I mean yes, thanks SMS for the new cars the list is a wet dream! Can't wait to drive them :)

bc525
10-06-2015, 16:22
Last night I did some hot laps at Road America in both the BMW V12 LM and the Bentley Speed 8, and I was somewhat surprised to see my lap times were practically identical. Yes these are both prototypes but I fully expected to be much quicker in the Bentley. Now it could be that I was getting tired (it was very late) and I just wasn't as sharp during my laps in the Bentley. Or maybe the BMW just works better for me. I'm not sure.

Just curious, what year is represented for those two cars in the Racing Icon Pack? I want to say these two cars competed in the early 2000's, but not in the same year.

Casey Ringley
10-06-2015, 16:44
BMW is a 1999 car, Bentley 2003. The rules kept overall speeds quite similar for that class of car over that time - Le Mans rules have targeted a 3:30 lap time for the top class for a while now. The Bentley has some more power and maybe 20% more downforce, but is held back by tires 2" narrower than the BMW. The BMW was also a clever design that kept it well below the minimum weight. That meant it could be ballasted up with a huge lead plate at floor level to keep the CoG very low. It can all balance out at the right tracks.

Pink_650S
10-06-2015, 17:04
I tried both at Le Circuit Bugatti and did a
1:27,776 with the BMW V12 and a
1:28, 541 with the Speed 8

I also expected the Bentley to be faster tbh :p

Daynja
10-06-2015, 17:08
Now this post is what I call car porn literature.

Disposable_Hero
10-06-2015, 18:10
Is the BMW V12 LMR really limited to 7000 rpm?
On Wikipedia it says 7500 rpm, which could be messed up information of course.
Just double checking really.
BTW, itīs one of my new favorites, great job in art+physics+soundhttp://forum.wmdportal.com/images/smilies/tickyes.png

P75
10-06-2015, 18:45
Nice post and I couldn't agree more, the Speed 8 is fantastic and has become my favorite car now. Gotta admit though, I hate the Continental GT3 with a passion, just can't seem to tame it, but that's probably just lack of skill on my part. Before the Lykan Hypersport was my least favorite, now it's definitely the Continental.

Casey Ringley
10-06-2015, 18:48
Is the BMW V12 LMR really limited to 7000 rpm?
On Wikipedia it says 7500 rpm, which could be messed up information of course.
Just double checking really.
BTW, itīs one of my new favorites, great job in art+physics+soundhttp://forum.wmdportal.com/images/smilies/tickyes.png

I don't recall if we got a firm number on it for rev limit. Power peak was quoted around 6500rpm and it had to breathe through two very small air restrictors - 2x32.9mm - so the torque dropoff over 7000rpm becomes very high. How we've got it modeled now would be over 820hp unrestricted, which seems reasonable. Making that power curve look normal and then air restrict it you're looking at a 40hp drop in that last 500rpm. Not a range of rpm worth using.

CrustyA
10-06-2015, 18:56
Loving the DLC and loving the detail in the post. A couple of things that I wanted to point out, and these may just be personal notes coming from myself with things I don't like about the cars, and what I perceive to be un-realistic so I could be completely wrong!?

Bentley Continental GT3- Rear end is extremely loose! I can understand it from the traction point of view as it's a very powerful engine, and that I don't mind, I can manage and deal with that using less of the right foot. But what gets me is how loose it is at medium to high speed as well. Coming through turn 2 at Silverstone GP for example in 5th gear, the rear end just slid away from me gently with very little warning. I was pretty much full throttle and took it how I'd take any other GT3 car, but it just seems soo light and floaty at the rear on the default setup that it breaks away too easily at high speed. Some tweaks could probably reduce it, and more rear downforce would probably also help, but I'm wondering if this is a real trait of the car or not as it doesn't seem quite right to me.


I totally agree with this assessment on the Bentley Continental GT3. I had several very similar experiences at Monza (Ascari) and Watkins Glen sort (esses / Turn 3). Am also wondering if this behavior is true to life or i need to start tuning to tame it a bit?

Olijke Poffer
10-06-2015, 19:10
I found my new favorite car in the game... The BMW V12 LMR.

Yeahhhhh second that. I have ridden the whole afternoon with this car and I love it...


http://youtu.be/Boci_TUBIjs

unknwn
10-06-2015, 19:52
I like the McLaren F1 GTR, feels kind of similar to AC version just on different tire model. Default setup doesn't seem to be overdone for gamepads. Lowering front tire pressure, some toe adjustments and the car instantly shows its edgy/sharp character, likes 4wheel slides and doesn't become sloppy, balance is very good.
I haven't tried other cars much to get the character of them, but initial impressions about default setups:
The BMW V12 LMR - really understeery, simple adjustments didn't help, will need to play with suspension or more aggressive settings.
Bentley speed 8 and Mercedes CLK-LM seem to have high default differential decel values. Lowering it to ~40% doesn't come close to making car hard to handle, but decreases turn radius. Both feels relatively balanced without bigger changes.
Bentley GT3 - feels a bit sloppy but still very easy to loose rear even with the default values ( 0.4 rear toe in, lower front tire pressure, safe diff settings). Need to to play with suspension settings.

blot
10-06-2015, 19:57
Excellent of you taking the time to give us some spec of the cars and coming on and answering questions Casey, Brilliant job on this add on, CLK and GTR Longtail are my favourites.

blot
10-06-2015, 20:04
Loving the DLC and loving the detail in the post. A couple of things that I wanted to point out, and these may just be personal notes coming from myself with things I don't like about the cars, and what I perceive to be un-realistic so I could be completely wrong!?

Bentley Continental GT3- Rear end is extremely loose! I can understand it from the traction point of view as it's a very powerful engine, and that I don't mind, I can manage and deal with that using less of the right foot. But what gets me is how loose it is at medium to high speed as well. Coming through turn 2 at Silverstone GP for example in 5th gear, the rear end just slid away from me gently with very little warning. I was pretty much full throttle and took it how I'd take any other GT3 car, but it just seems soo light and floaty at the rear on the default setup that it breaks away too easily at high speed. Some tweaks could probably reduce it, and more rear downforce would probably also help, but I'm wondering if this is a real trait of the car or not as it doesn't seem quite right to me.

Mclaren F1 GTR Long Tail- Soo sensitive around neutral steering angle. Just small, millimeter movements to the left or right shifts the car around down the straight you can sometimes end up zig-zagging a fair bit unless you properly focus and tense up on the steering trying to hold it dead straight. Again on default setup so some tweaks could probably nullify this effect but it's a little irritating as to how floaty it feels yawing left to right down the straights.

If anyone can confirm that they are also getting the above, or that these are realistic traits of the two cars mentioned, or there are any changes that can be made to rectify them, that would be greatly appreciated :)

I'm no expert but Casey states the GTR long tail has weak front aero? I'm finding them both great at default settings and requiring gentle, Smooth and precise input on my wheel, Same for the speed 8.

Benja190782
10-06-2015, 20:06
I got a question, Casey - if we set all the assists to "NO" - will the AI also have no assists??

Or are we more like "forced" to use REAL assists to compete with the AI in these race cars?

Bealdor
10-06-2015, 20:11
I got a question, Casey - if we set all the assists to "NO" - will the AI also have no assists??

Or are we more like "forced" to use REAL assists to compete with the AI in these race cars?

The AI runs on different (simplified) physics than the player car. It is not affected by your assist settings.

unknwn
10-06-2015, 20:24
Mclaren F1 GTR Long Tail- Soo sensitive around neutral steering angle. Just small, millimeter movements to the left or right shifts the car around down the straight you can sometimes end up zig-zagging a fair bit unless you properly focus and tense up on the steering trying to hold it dead straight. Again on default setup so some tweaks could probably nullify this effect but it's a little irritating as to how floaty it feels yawing left to right down the straights.

I like to setup cars to be like that :p
Regarding F1 GTR floaty feel I would say that is a wrong description, sharp/unstable - yes, but nothing close to loosing control in straights (using T300 wheel). Floaty I would say is when you give the car inputs, but the car doesn't react to them as you want and there is very low to no FFB feedback of what the car is doing regarding grip. And F1 GTR is opposite of that, sharp, precise, good FFB feedback and slides as you wish. Compared to that Bentley GT3 I would say is a bit floaty.:)
Try setting positive front toe in angle to increase stability and decrease sharp turn in. Also adjusting steering speed and caster might help.

k.merse
10-06-2015, 20:36
Awesome review.
One thing I've found odd that when I lose it with the CLK-LM, the car still feels like it's sucked to the track. What I mean is, the grip of the tires remain there even if I'm sliding sideways towards the Armco at high speed. I had some high-speed errors but I always managed to stop the car in whatever direction it was facing before I hit the barriers.
I'm not sure if it's a bug or WAD, but it seems like the car barely loese downforce even if it is facing the wind with its wrong side. Or maybe it's just that the car is relatively light compared to its size and power?

unknwn
10-06-2015, 20:48
Awesome review.
One thing I've found odd that when I lose it with the CLK-LM, the car still feels like it's sucked to the track. What I mean is, the grip of the tires remain there even if I'm sliding sideways towards the Armco at high speed. I had some high-speed errors but I always managed to stop the car in whatever direction it was facing before I hit the barriers.
I'm not sure if it's a bug or WAD, but it seems like the car barely loese downforce even if it is facing the wind with its wrong side. Or maybe it's just that the car is relatively light compared to its size and power?
This is what I have also noticed with high downforce cars. My initial assumption was that pCars doesn't simulate downforce loss at yaw. Devs please correct if I am wrong.:)

Anyone noticed that engine sounds from the F1 GTR cockpit are a bit weird? Overall cockpit sound seems to be muffled? Engine reving sound seems to be coming from the left side, some other tones from the right side, gives an impression that something is wrong with my ears.:D

David Semperger
10-06-2015, 21:18
This is what I have also noticed with high downforce cars. My initial assumption was that pCars doesn't simulate downforce loss at yaw. Devs please correct if I am wrong.:)

I was wondering about this a couple of times myself. With the FA for example I often had slides when I was overly aggressive with the application of DRS during Time Trials, but closing the rear wing almost instantly stabilizes the car, even in almost completely sideway slides.

Umer Ahmad
10-06-2015, 21:23
This is what I have also noticed with high downforce cars. My initial assumption was that pCars doesn't simulate downforce loss at yaw. Devs please correct if I am wrong.:)
It does, Casey did some decent modeling of aero forces from all sides of the car models. There are posts about it at WMD forum.

Awong124
10-06-2015, 21:29
The AI runs on different (simplified) physics than the player car. It is not affected by your assist settings.

I did notice when spectating the AI drive that they seem to be able to make the car do things that don't seem possible for me.

KredeO
10-06-2015, 21:35
My only question is, why does the Bentley Speed 8 not have warm tyres from start leaving the pits? Just like all the others lmp cars

Casey Ringley
10-06-2015, 21:40
No tire warmers/ovens used back in 2003, but they are commonplace and allowed now. At least I don't remember seeing any back then. V12 LMR starts cold too.

KredeO
10-06-2015, 21:46
Ah, thanks for the quick reply :D

django18
11-06-2015, 00:10
Overall I really like the new cars, but I have to say I'm rather dissapointed with the sounds...
The bentley sounds good, but exactly like the vantage gt4, the bentley speed 8 shares the same (bland) sound as some lmp2 car, the V12 lmr has the same sound as the v12 vantage gt3, the F1 gtr sounds exactly like the street version.
The Clk lm actually has the best sound of them all imo, it's just a higher pitched C9 engine sound, but that's probably close enough as they share the same engine.

django18
11-06-2015, 17:47
Is this something you guys will improve on? In my opinion sounds are one of the most important, yet one of the most overlooked aspects in simracing games.

Benja190782
11-06-2015, 18:24
Is this something you guys will improve on? In my opinion sounds are one of the most important, yet one of the most overlooked aspects in simracing games.

I'm also a sound guy - and to be honest, Project CARS has some great sounds overall - but in my opinion PCARS can't keep up with what the audio people are doing on DiRT Rally right now. That raw metallic onboard sound is the true Next Gen sounds imo. Also a game like R3E has some stunning replay sounds!

Anyway - there are def. some incredible good sounds in PCARS - no doubt about it...

To me the most important things in a racing game is: 1. Sounds, 2. Physics, 3. Graphics.

django18
11-06-2015, 19:09
I'm also a sound guy - and to be honest, Project CARS has some great sounds overall - but in my opinion PCARS can't keep up with what the audio people are doing on DiRT Rally right now. That raw metallic onboard sound is the true Next Gen sounds imo. Also a game like R3E has some stunning replay sounds!

Anyway - there are def. some incredible good sounds in PCARS - no doubt about it...

To me the most important things in a racing game is: 1. Sounds, 2. Physics, 3. Graphics.

Exactly. I wouldn't say car sounds are more important than physics and the general feel of the car, I'd say they are both equally important, but I totally get what you mean. If a car sounds great, I usually can't stop driving it. R3E is THE benchmark when it comes to audio in simracing. Pcars is a bit hit and miss atm I think, and reusing the same sound samples from other cars doesn't really solve this problem.

django18
12-06-2015, 11:33
Btw I'd really appreciate it if the devs could comment on this;)

Ian Bell
12-06-2015, 11:47
We've sacked all of our audio guys and employed the one from Codemasters.

Marrrfooo
12-06-2015, 12:05
We've sacked all of our audio guys and employed the one from Codemasters.


Did their letters of termination simply state:

'We regret to inform you that your terms of employment with Slightly Mad Studios have been terminated effective immediately due to you not being the sound guy from Codemasters.'

:rolleyes:

Ian Bell
12-06-2015, 12:10
Did their letters of termination simply state:

'We regret to inform you that your terms of employment with Slightly Mad Studios have been terminated effective immediately due to you not being the sound guy from Codemasters.'

:rolleyes:

We weren't that kind.

Marrrfooo
12-06-2015, 12:19
We weren't that kind.

Did they go and 'live next door'?

You've changed man...you've changed. Hehehe.

MysterG
12-06-2015, 12:22
Lets not drag this interesting and useful physics thread too far off topic guys ...

Marrrfooo
12-06-2015, 12:38
Lets not drag this interesting and useful physics thread too far off topic guys ...

Apologies for that...

In fairness I was just reading the OP and it's really fascinating levels of detail to provide to the community - massive thumbs up. I concur with largely everything that's said (the Merc is a bullet, the Bentley 8 and BMW V12 are great cars, the F1 seduces you and tries to kill you and the GT3 abuses you straight out of the box - but some authority being applied makes it manageable).

I think it's actually important to stop for a moment and realise how many similar types of car there are throughout the game (within their distinct groups/styles - that are all excellently picked) and realise that a few handle similarly, but they really do all have their own handling characteristics. It's very noticeable - and I think that's an enormous credit to the work done.

In other racers I've used cars in the same class and they're all extremely similar to each other regardless of being from different manufacturers and even time periods. None of that in PCARS. It's just...brilliant. :D

Machinist90
12-06-2015, 12:41
do these cars appear in your career as ai or contracts?

chig88
12-06-2015, 14:32
We've sacked all of our audio guys and employed the one from Codemasters.

Hang on....... Codemasters have staff? You'd never know it from their F1 forum.....

207397

Awong124
12-06-2015, 15:18
From the comments in the OP, the CLK-LM sounds like it's supposed to be quite a bit superior to the F1 GTR, but I did a bunch of laps on Spa yesterday and the F1 GTR was about a second a lap faster, even when using the default restrictor setting that is not the largest. In the end I think my best laps in each were about the same, but the F1 GTR was much easier to get to the limit and easier to be more consistent. The CLK-LM also has some strangely long default gearing, which might have contributed to it being slower since I didn't mess around with gear ratios at that time. I'm going to shorten the gearing and try it again when I get home from work today.

Both cars are awesome to drive, btw.

Ally_bassman
12-06-2015, 15:52
Exactly. I wouldn't say car sounds are more important than physics and the general feel of the car, I'd say they are both equally important, but I totally get what you mean. If a car sounds great, I usually can't stop driving it. R3E is THE benchmark when it comes to audio in simracing. Pcars is a bit hit and miss atm I think, and reusing the same sound samples from other cars doesn't really solve this problem.

Like you, I find cars sounds important to whether I enjoy the game.

P Cars sounds incredible...Don't get me started on the V12 Aston.......

With regards to re-using samples.... I see nothing wrong in that (If it has been done) but the Bentley GT3 and Aston GT4 both have V8's and they do sound similar in real life...the Aston GT3 and McLaren F1 both have V12's so sound similar on the surface, but if you listen deeper, sound pretty different.

django18
13-06-2015, 00:29
Like you, I find cars sounds important to whether I enjoy the game.

P Cars sounds incredible...Don't get me started on the V12 Aston.......

With regards to re-using samples.... I see nothing wrong in that (If it has been done) but the Bentley GT3 and Aston GT4 both have V8's and they do sound similar in real life...the Aston GT3 and McLaren F1 both have V12's so sound similar on the surface, but if you listen deeper, sound pretty different.

I get you and I think it's totally fine if the cars sound similar and believable (like the aston/bentley), but I doubt that an aston gt3 v12 sounds exactly like a bmw v12 lmr, or that a mclaren mp4 sounds exactly like it's gt3 version AND the P1.
Might be nitpicking, but Pcars has some incredible attention to detail in many aspects and I think sounds shouldn't be an exception:)

Madhatter1213
17-06-2015, 21:43
When will this car pack be available in the us for ps4

Awong124
17-06-2015, 21:49
When will this car pack be available in the us for ps4

It's been available for over a week.