PDA

View Full Version : Just how hard is it then to make a game like Project Cars



KK78
10-06-2015, 12:46
So we are several weeks in and I'm personally loving the game.

BUT each day there is another gripe, another issue another individual shouting righteous indignation of what is missing, what needs to be added, what doesn't work etc etc etc... at some point the individual should perhaps consider they are not dealing with just an inanimate object they just bought from Tesco.

I for one would love to understand/be educated by the SMS/WMD chaps as to just how challenging making a game like Project Cars is and the torrent of challenges a development team faces. I come from the mindset where I have a reasonable understanding of how hard games can be not only to make but also to get working, no developer/publisher wants to release a broken game but it happens often and simply shouting at the devs is not a helpful course of action.

So I'm asking if SMS, WMD or learned forum members could post up specific insight, comments, thoughts, experiences, previous articles, how long things take, technical challenges, processes and things to give us a picture of just what goes on on the other side of the gaming experience. I appreciate time is very precious but hopefully some details can be provided, it would provide us all with a little more understanding.

It would be much appreciated if those who wish to wave pitchforks would keep the volume low ;)

Alan Dallas
10-06-2015, 13:11
In a nutshell, it's not easy. To explain it in depth would take pages. I will say however, experiencing pCARS development from behind the scenes over the course of 3 years changed my whole view on the process of game making. It very time consuming and will test your patience. It's not all fun and games. Well it is a game, I mean the work involved. :) Hours upon hours discussing game mechanics and content creation. Testing for hours on end trying to repro a bug or just because you were asked to by the devs.

When you see WMD members go on the defensive to slap down the misinformed that are bandying about "facts" it's because we see pCARS as our baby also.

NemethR
10-06-2015, 13:19
There is a PDF that is 415 pages long, and it is only the feedback, the test drivers have given about the physics...

You can find it here:
http://www.wmdcars.ru/docs/Project%20CARS%20-%20Handling%20Consultants%20Feedback.pdf

Read through it, and realise how small a portion of the game developement it actually is (you need to build tracks, make the sounds, build the cars, troubleshoot issues, etc...)

So its a really big job.

danowat
10-06-2015, 13:32
There is a PDF that is 415 pages long, and it is only the feedback, the test drivers have given about the physics...

You can find it here:
http://www.wmdcars.ru/docs/Project%20CARS%20-%20Handling%20Consultants%20Feedback.pdf

Read through it, and realise how small a portion of the game developement it actually is (you need to build tracks, make the sounds, build the cars, troubleshoot issues, etc...)

So its a really big job.

Really interesting document, even though I am only a few pages in.........

KK78
10-06-2015, 13:33
Thanks chaps, I'm very interested to understand what is the most difficult part of the process? My guess would be the testing/calibrating period once all the assets (tracks, cars etc...) are created is pretty extensive and technically challenging?

NemethR
10-06-2015, 13:40
Thanks chaps, I'm very interested to understand what is the most difficult part of the process? My guess would be the testing/calibrating period once all the assets (tracks, cars etc...) are created is pretty extensive and technically challenging?

I personally think that the most challenging is the fixing of bugs.

1st you need to gather the info to understand what is the issue exactly.
2nd you need to be able to reproduce it.
3rd isolate that in the coding.
4th you need to find a way to fix it, and that may cause other issues, so test, and check, and test again, and change, and test, and check, and so on.


The 2nd hardest must be to read these forums as a developer and see all the people who are not pleased with the game because the McLaren is Orange or similar issues. :)

MikeyTT
10-06-2015, 13:41
Ninja'd. Removed as it pretty much duplicates what others said

Prophet216
10-06-2015, 13:48
Aparently pretty hard cuz they dont know how to do it either, all they can do is close threads for no reason and act like people arent on here to talk

MysterG
10-06-2015, 13:50
Aparently pretty hard cuz they dont know how to do it either, all they can do is close threads for no reason and act like people arent on here to talk

You were given a final chance and apparently have chosen to ignore it.

Ian Bell
10-06-2015, 13:50
Aparently pretty hard cuz they dont know how to do it either, all they can do is close threads for no reason and act like people arent on here to talk

Really prophet? What part of last warning don't you understand? I did list your transgressions very clearly and here you are still at it.

Ban mods.

KK78
10-06-2015, 13:57
What a tool..... anyway @Nemeth that's a good point, I read an article about the challenges of online gaming by some guy from Bungie who said even in closed beta the team can never fully know what issues will arise or whether or not a game will have issues upon release, in fact in most cases it is impossible to know until it hits the servers!

HeeseyChelmet
10-06-2015, 13:58
Aparently pretty hard cuz they dont know how to do it either, all they can do is close threads for no reason and act like people arent on here to talk

I've read a few of your posts and you come across as an utter twat. No wonder mods close your threads. Be constructive with your (warranted) frustrated feedback and criticism, people are more likely to treat you as an adult rather than a petulant child

chig88
10-06-2015, 14:13
Nicholas Hamilton seems like a very likeable guy judging from his blogs in that PDF.

nomen nescio
10-06-2015, 14:14
@Ian Bell

I believe that I once read on the internet (a long, long time ago when NFS Shift was in the making) that you were a shrink (no insult intended) in you previous life. Is this correct? If not, are you part of the programming team? Or are you, not only the head of SMS (I think) but a "shrink" with a vision and is making this vision possible through SMS?

I'm a very curious person. :D

Roger Prynne
10-06-2015, 18:08
This might give you some idea on what is involved in making a video game.


Video game development and Design (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_development#Design)

Umer Ahmad
10-06-2015, 19:00
I've worked on (former Java programmer) Trading systems at large banks and financial institutions for the past 15 years. I've worked with brilliant programmers, some of whom have acquired US Patents for their algorithms, others have moved on to the tippy-top of High Frequency trading firms and companies like Google. I've also worked closely with large divisions of internal QA personnel on these systems. Some of these trading systems are N-tier running on upwards of 100 machines in a Production environment written in various languages and employing who knows how many 3rd party packages.

What I've seen in the last ~4 years from Ian's team truly competes at the highest professional level I've personally seen in my lifetime. These SMS guys are really brilliant 'artists' (I use that word because at the level they are playing it's more art than science now, like watching Lebron James or Michael Jordan play basketball). I'll go ahead and place them up there with some of the best in the world like the Pixar team or the brilliant engineers at Google etc.

The amount they've been able to push-the-silicon and quantity/quality of features is astounding. DIVIDE that by their team size and budget and their 'efficiency' is mind-boggling. What they could have done with this game with just half the Forza/GT5 budget!

What we will see is a cycle of software releases to continue the momentum: a. new features/content b. stability/performance

Sometimes it will be "A" before "B", other times it will be "B" before "A". In the end it doesn't matter, we will get A's and B's for sure.

Really, you guys are playing some historic and ground-breaking software right now.

Irishnewblood
10-06-2015, 19:05
Nicholas Hamilton seems like a very likeable guy judging from his blogs in that PDF.

Yeah I hear you mate.Never liked him because well, to be honest I can't stand Lewis(such a child when he losses). Then I started seeing him doing interviews and the guy is an inspiration to us all and such a genuine nice guy.Hope thing's keep going great for him and wish him all the best of luck and I will be cheering for him in the BTCC.

apexatspeed
10-06-2015, 19:08
Yeah I hear you mate.Never liked him because well, to be honest I can't stand Lewis(such a child when he losses). Then I started seeing him doing interviews and the guy is an inspiration to us all and such a genuine nice guy.Hope thing's keep going great for him and wish him all the best of luck and I will be cheering for him in the BTCC.

You say someone acts like a child when they lose, but they say you didn't like a person just based on how their brother acts. Quite the contradiction we have here. :rolleyes:

Irishnewblood
10-06-2015, 19:55
You say someone acts like a child when they lose, but they say you didn't like a person just based on how their brother acts. Quite the contradiction we have here. :rolleyes:

Listen man,don't follow me around because I called American DLC just that,that's childish. Also you can quite clearly read me say I was wrong about him and genuinely wish him the best. Now I don't know how you were raised, but how I was raised is when you're wrong about something or someone you say it which I have.that makes you a man not a child. But in your eyes I'm being childish, yeah okay dude.

apexatspeed
10-06-2015, 19:57
Listen man,don't follow me around because I called American DLC just that,that's childish. Also you can quite clearly read me say I was wrong about him and genuinely wish him the best. Now I don't know how you were raised, but how I was raised is when you're wrong about something or someone you say it which I have.that makes you a man not a child. But in your eyes I'm being childish, yeah okay dude.

I am not following you around. What the heck? We are commenting on the same forums. If you comment on anything it automatically jumps to the top of general discussion.:rolleyes:

I was raised not to prejudge people based off nonsense.

Irishnewblood
10-06-2015, 20:01
I am not following you around? What the heck? We are commenting on the same forums. If you comment on anything it automatically just to the top of general discussion.:rolleyes:

I was raised not to prejudge people based off nonsense.

And what nonsense are you on about today man? You have a serious smart ass attitude with your rolleyes all the time and to be perfectly honest I don't like it.You still haven't answered how I'm being childish either.

flymar
10-06-2015, 20:04
Hardest part - managing the WMD crowd:D
But on more serious note - in my obviously limited view I suppose the "multiplatform" thing was pretty hard.

Bealdor
10-06-2015, 20:15
I am not following you around. What the heck? We are commenting on the same forums. If you comment on anything it automatically jumps to the top of general discussion.:rolleyes:

I was raised not to prejudge people based off nonsense.


And what nonsense are you on about today man? You have a serious smart ass attitude with your rolleyes all the time and to be perfectly honest I don't like it.You still haven't answered how I'm being childish either.

Take your fight to PM if you must but stop derailing this thread with your arguement.

Irishnewblood
10-06-2015, 20:17
Take your fight to PM if you must but stop derailing this thread with your arguement.

Apologies man. Just got a little irritated.

apexatspeed
10-06-2015, 20:18
Take your fight to PM if you must but stop derailing this thread with your arguement.

That is why I didn't respond.:yes:

Martini Da Gasalini
10-06-2015, 20:23
Getting back to the subject, I'm in I.T myself and coding SUCKS, my hats off to programmers, sitting there writing code, re-writing code, debugging it, NO THANK YOU, that stuff is just so time consuming ehhhhhh.

Irishnewblood
10-06-2015, 20:24
That is why I didn't respond.:yes:

Feel free to Pm me. Would love to know why you're so pissed with me. Not for an argument either, I don't like to row with people life is too short.We're into the same series and a lot of idea's the same.Peace dude. Won't say anything more about it.

SityiSXT
10-06-2015, 21:31
Let me just take a couple of things I have experienced as a gamer from this 3 year journey - my fellow WMD friends, fix if I recall something incorrectly ;) :
- First, there was the excitement and also convincing yourself that you have just gotten into something really big. The early alpha builds were not so shiny, but you wanted to see the potential of this project.
- Realising that developing a game isn't like a steady flow of progress. Sometimes you had that feeling that SMS isn't proceeding as fast as you have imagined or want and it was sometimes hard to see big improvements if you checked the game every single day. You had to look for it.
- Debates over which tracks and car manufacturers should and can we approach. Debates over the F2P and retail path. Debates over DRM.
- Regarding DRM: The pre-release builds had a built-in authentication system. Oddly as far as I can tell this was never cracked (or maybe in the beginning). There were a couple of days when this was taken out and we relied solely on the protection offered by Steam - and we had to realise that it got immediately cracked. Eventually SMS found out who leaked it out and Ian gave a call to the kid. He was really surprised and came to our forum to confess...
- The excitement when we learned before the public that a new track, a new car manufacturer joined to our project - personally I was the happiest about Aston Martin. Since we were told a week before the official announcement, someone wrote that he went to a betting shop nearby and placed a bet on AM coming to Cars. :D
- Sometimes I didn't have the chance to play Cars for weeks or months (life of a videogame-journalist: sometimes other games are taking up all your gametime) and when I came back I was quite impressed about the progress. Yep, after about a year I guess most of us at WMD realised that developing a game is slower that we imagined. And this way SMS taught us to appreciate little achievements, victories as well. ;)
- And probably the most frustrating was when we had to argue with outsider "trying-really-hard-to-be-an-expert" simjunkies, who stated after watching a video or two that Project Cars is an arcade racing game, it's unrealistic and anyway, SMS made Shift 1 and 2, and it's a trend in wannabe-simjunkie-expert circles to spit on that. Some might say this hasn't changed, but as far as I can tell only the dumbest and the most stubborn ones are arguing against Project Cars.