PDA

View Full Version : No transmission option available at some cars



gui78
10-06-2015, 17:12
Hi everyone,

i am not sure if this is already a known Setup issue (i found nothing about it) but i have still some Cars like the SLS GT3, where its not possible to change the transmission.
This is really annoying in the corners, when the first Gear is to long and the 6th Gear is useless ;)
The same is now with the Bentley GT3, witch i really Love :love_heart:

So is it already noticed and will it be fixed?

Thx

MikeyTT
10-06-2015, 17:16
The transmissions are fixed either due to homologation reasons, i.e. the GT3 format and rules doesn't allow it, or for road cars like the Caterham, where there are no options for this in the real car.

pCars follows these racing rules on the whole.

gui78
10-06-2015, 17:27
But why do other GT3 Cars have the option to change the Transmission? I mean it makes no sense to drive with an transmission witch is so long, that the sixth gear is never in use and the first is much to high for the slowest corner.

McLaren GT3 has it:
206993

Also The BMW Z4 GT3
206995

But not the Bentley and SLS GT3
206994

Also I cant find any Rules that says, its not allowed to change the transmission on the GT3 Cars :confused:

MikeyTT
10-06-2015, 17:30
Ok, well you have me beat on that. I don't know. I assumed, wrongly I guess, that if one GT3 was fixed then they all would. Maybe it's a side effect of the Bentley transmission.

Unless it's a bug I would imagine that if it's locked then the real car is also limited in the transmission

*Edit: No mention of this on their site: http://www.bentleymotors.com/en/world-of-bentley/experiences/motorsport/overview/technical-specifications.html

GT_Racing
10-06-2015, 17:35
It also makes me wonder why you can change the longitudinal weight bias on some GT3 cars and not others. It grinds my gears that the Ruf GT3 isnt even real and there is no option for moving a ballast. I can understand for the real cars if it is not available. I know you can do it in the SLS and Z4, but why for the life of me can you not change the weight bias on a race car that is not even real. It just dont get it.

MikeyTT
10-06-2015, 17:56
It also makes me wonder why you can change the longitudinal weight bias on some GT3 cars and not others. It grinds my gears that the Ruf GT3 isnt even real and there is no option for moving a ballast. I can understand for the real cars if it is not available. I know you can do it in the SLS and Z4, but why for the life of me can you not change the weight bias on a race car that is not even real. It just dont get it.

You didn't hear this from me, but the Ruf will have been modelled on the real thing, so the question is does the Pors... Ruf GT3 allow for that? If the answer is no then that's why the RUF is modelled that way.

In all of the development the mantra from most of the members and the devs is reality. The amount of detail involved is really quite mind boggling. I raised a query on the throttle angle, as I didn't think it felt right, and this is part of the response I got back from the vehicle lead (can't see any reason why I can't share this snippet)


...You won't ever really get maximum output from less than 100% throttle. It can get close depending on the setup, but there is still a pressure drop from throttling that will happen relative to the full opening and that reduces potential for torque.

It's a little tough to see these 3D plots, but here's a look at how our model's calibration works out on something like the Formula A. The axis labeled 1-40 is engine rpm, Series 1-19 is increasing throttle input, and the vertical axis shows manifold pressure (virtually linear with torque output). We've targeted a linear throttle response at max rpm with increasing sharpness to response at lower rpm. You can see that very top line trailing off as the throttle body starts to have a slight restricting effect at 18000rpm.

206999

Also note how the shape of the surface bows upward toward the left of the plot. This is the effect you're describing as it is calibrated in our model. It's possible for us to change this for more or less of that effect...


There is far more at play behind the scenes than you, or I even, can think. I'm sure a lot the guys won't/can't share, but the odd snippet like that goes to show they have really poured a lot of thought into this (the odd bug aside of course)

GT_Racing
10-06-2015, 18:28
You didn't hear this from me, but the Ruf will have been modelled on the real thing, so the question is does the Pors... Ruf GT3 allow for that? If the answer is no then that's why the RUF is modelled that way.




So does the car have a V8 or a H6? If it has a V8 and "Polyphony Digital" were to make it for "GranTurismo" then you couldnt even design it the same as a GT3 car with a H6. So at that point with two completely different hearts on the car you might as well just make it from the ground up.

Roger Prynne
10-06-2015, 18:48
Most of the real GT3 drivers will tell you that the hardly ever use 6th gear, apart from really long straights.

MikeyTT
10-06-2015, 18:56
So does the car have a V8 or a H6? If it has a V8 and "Polyphony Digital" were to make it for "GranTurismo" then you couldnt even design it the same as a GT3 car with a H6. So at that point with two completely different hearts on the car you might as well just make it from the ground up.

I don't know, and I'm not that close with the GT3s to understand fully, or indeed what changes had to be made so as not to trip over licensing. If you've driven the Ruf then what does the in-game info say on the car?

I was only trying to help and offer my view based on what I've read in the WMD forums.

GT_Racing
10-06-2015, 20:27
I don't know, and I'm not that close with the GT3s to understand fully, or indeed what changes had to be made so as not to trip over licensing. If you've driven the Ruf then what does the in-game info say on the car?

I was only trying to help and offer my view based on what I've read in the WMD forums.

Well the car has a V8 in the game so I doubt it may have been made to specifications of a car we should not talk about, but that is just my thoughts. If the car was made up they might as well let you have at least equal tuning options as the other cars.

Invincible
10-06-2015, 20:41
But why do other GT3 Cars have the option to change the Transmission? I mean it makes no sense to drive with an transmission witch is so long, that the sixth gear is never in use and the first is much to high for the slowest corner.

McLaren GT3 has it:
206993

Also The BMW Z4 GT3
206995

But not the Bentley and SLS GT3
206994

Also I cant find any Rules that says, its not allowed to change the transmission on the GT3 Cars :confused:

As for the gear ratio, it depends on how the car has been homologated. The SLS GT3 IRL has only one gear set homologated, in which the 6th gear is useless on most tracks. The BMW Z4 GT3 has a couple more gear sets than most other GT3s.
And the M3 GT has even more because it was a GTE/GT2 and only adapated ingame to race against GT3.

The guys from SMS physics department tried to stick as close to real world homologations as possible. This is why some GT3 has have tuning options which others don't.

GT_Racing
10-06-2015, 20:52
I looked into this transmission tuning and you can tune the individual gears of all the gt3 cars (not very well, but you can), but the final driver ratio is untouchable on some. Same with weight distribution. I dont know why, but maybe somebody knows the answer besides real drivers dont use 6th gear a lot. I am assuming that on those cars the final driver ratio is locked in real life or they have some trick system. I dont know about the weight thing, because I cant imagine somebody making a GT3 car that does not have a moveable ballast for lighter drivers or for leagues that have ballast handicap systems in the rules.

GT_Racing
10-06-2015, 20:58
As for the gear ratio, it depends on how the car has been homologated. The SLS GT3 IRL has only one gear set homologated, in which the 6th gear is useless on most tracks. The MBW Z4 GT3 has a couple more gear sets than most other GT3s.
And the M3 GT has even more because it was a GTE/GT2 and only adapated ingame to race against GT3.

The guys from SMS physics department tried to stick as close to real world homologations as possible. This is why some GT3 has have tuning options which other don't.

You say that yet you can change the gear ratios and just not the final drive. Specifically the SLS GT3 6th gear. You can lower it if you want.

Schnizz58
10-06-2015, 21:12
Invincible

You win the Internet for the most uses of the word homologate in one post. (Now, to go look up that word to find out what it means.)

Bealdor
10-06-2015, 21:16
You say that yet you can change the gear ratios and just not the final drive. Specifically the SLS GT3 6th gear. You can lower it if you want.

Yes but only in "one gear" steps. Only only adjust the 6th gear down to the ratio of 5th gear for example. So effectively you cant change the gearing ratio at all.


You win the Internet for the most uses of the word homologate in one post. (Now, to go look up that word to find out what it means.)

He explained exactly how it works so I don't think he has to look up anything. :rolleyes:

Invincible
10-06-2015, 21:22
I only used it three times and I already know what I means. No need to look it up.

GT_Racing
10-06-2015, 22:35
Yes but only in "one gear" steps. Only only adjust the 6th gear down to the ratio of 5th gear for example. So effectively you cant change the gearing ratio at all.



He explained exactly how it works so I don't think he has to look up anything. :rolleyes:

Ok that makes sense, but what about leagues like the pirelli world challenge that let you have two sets of gear ratios? They run GT3 cars. I guess it is interesting if you cant physically change the gear ratios of those cars. So if it is the case that every GT3 car in the game has one set of ratios (six individual numbers that you can choose from) how come some you can change the final driver ratio on some and some you cannot?

Also what about the Ruf RGT8 GT3 not being able to move the weight distribution. That car isnt even real yet you can do it in some of the others in its class..

apexatspeed
11-06-2015, 01:56
Also what about the Ruf RGT8 GT3 not being able to move the weight distribution. That car isnt even real yet you can do it in some of the others in its class..

I also am wondering why on some GT3 cars you can't move the ballast and some can. If someone could shed some light on this that'd be great.

Flihp
11-06-2015, 03:56
yes the gearbox in the SLS GT3 is absolutely useless, any gear change drops it or raises it to the below or above gear effectively losing a gear either way if you make a change. im not 100% sure ( will have to check tonight) but caster on sls gt3 was locked too but not on the continental GT3 ( dont quote me on that thought ) and wether that is a real life thing and regulation i have no idea.


Phil

Panopticism
11-06-2015, 04:41
It's hard to get the SLS GT3 to a competitive level in online lobbies with talented driver-tuners running other cars.

hkraft300
11-06-2015, 04:54
I'd imagine some cars are below their weight limit, so ballast is added, which can be moved around to suit.
Ruf and Bentley may be on the weight limit so no ballast to influence weight distribution.
Maybe?

apexatspeed
11-06-2015, 04:57
I'd imagine some cars are below their weight limit, so ballast is added, which can be moved around to suit.
Ruf and Bentley may be on the weight limit so no ballast to influence weight distribution.
Maybe?

The Ruf isn't a real car so it can be under the weight limit if they want it to be. The MP4-12C GT3 has a ballast in real life for sure.

GT_Racing
11-06-2015, 05:04
I'd imagine some cars are below their weight limit, so ballast is added, which can be moved around to suit.
Ruf and Bentley may be on the weight limit so no ballast to influence weight distribution.
Maybe?

Why would a car be at its weight limit? Especially the RUF GT3 which is not even a real car.

Panopticism
11-06-2015, 05:09
Why would a car be below its weight limit?

Pretty common. You build a car and it's lighter than the minimum for homologation, so you are required to fit a weight to the car to bring it up to spec. Sometimes you build a car and it makes too much power, so you fit a restricter. Sometimes you build a car and the turbos make too much pressure, so you down-regulate the pressure.

I've seen an FIA GT3 and/or Blancpain PDF from this season that lists all the homologated cars and their down-regulations. Shouldn't be hard to find on Google.

Some cars are just fat and weigh in right at or sometimes a fair bit above the minimum weight. If I can recall, the SLS GT3 is overweight and quite a bit lighter on aero than the other cars.

GT_Racing
11-06-2015, 05:23
Pretty common. You build a car and it's lighter than the minimum for homologation, so you are required to fit a weight to the car to bring it up to spec. Sometimes you build a car and it makes too much power, so you fit a restricter. Sometimes you build a car and the turbos make too much pressure, so you down-regulate the pressure.

I've seen an FIA GT3 and/or Blancpain PDF from this season that lists all the homologated cars and their down-regulations. Shouldn't be hard to find on Google.

Some cars are just fat and weigh in right at or sometimes a fair bit above the minimum weight. If I can recall, the SLS GT3 is overweight and quite a bit lighter on aero than the other cars.


I meant to say "why would they build a car at its weight?". A car at its weight limit wouldnt be able to use ballast and therefore wouldnt even be legal in racing leagues that use handicaps. I edited my post btw.

Edit: The SLS is one of the GT3 cars that you can adjust the weight so your idea about it being to heavy does not work there. The RGT8 GT3 and R8 LMS Ultra cant be changed.

hkraft300
11-06-2015, 05:32
have you seen how big the Bentley is?
did you know the road car weights over 2400kg (5300lbs)?that huge car with all that chassis and body... then they had to fit roll cage etc meet all the safety stuff.
there's a limit to how light you can make a car.
if they could bring it to 1200kg, I'm sure they would have, but then the engine would be restricted.

GT_Racing
11-06-2015, 05:33
have you seen how big the Bentley is?
did you know they stripped over a ton (1000kg/2200lbs) from the road car to make it GT3 spec?
then they had to fit roll cage etc meet all the safety stuff.
there's a limit to how light you can make a car.
if they could bring it to 1200kg, I'm sure they would have, but then the engine would be restricted. BoP, power-to-weight and all that.

Who is talking about the Bentley? The SLS is one of the heaviest and it has a moveable ballast. The weight doe not seem to have anything to do with it. Again why would a manufacturer make a car at the weight limit and make it not be able to accept ballasts? I am just saying if you make a car that can not accept ballast then it automatically cant be race in leagues that use handicaps. I know the R8 can have ballasts in real life because it is used on the car in Super GT, and that is one of the cars that cant be changed in the game. And the other is the RUF which can weigh whatever they want it to be.

Edit: I looked. You are the only person talking about that car.

Edit 2: I dont know about the Bentley i dont own that car so I cant discuss what its options in this game are.

apexatspeed
11-06-2015, 05:34
have you seen how big the Bentley is?
did you know they stripped over a ton (1000kg/2200lbs) from the road car to make it GT3 spec?
then they had to fit roll cage etc meet all the safety stuff.
there's a limit to how light you can make a car.
if they could bring it to 1200kg, I'm sure they would have, but then the engine would be restricted. BoP, power-to-weight and all that.

What are you talking about? Nobody is talking about the Bentley.

Panopticism
11-06-2015, 06:29
I meant to say "why would they build a car at its weight?". A car at its weight limit wouldnt be able to use ballast and therefore wouldnt even be legal in racing leagues that use handicaps. I edited my post btw.

Edit: The SLS is one of the GT3 cars that you can adjust the weight so your idea about it being to heavy does not work there. The RGT8 GT3 and R8 LMS Ultra cant be changed.

I meant in real life, the SLS GT3 is comparatively heavy.

I'm not so sure that you aren't allowed to attach a ballast weight to a car that would be heavy with or without it. Some cars are probably intentionally designed with moveable weight.

gui78
11-06-2015, 06:46
I saw that you can change the ratio of each gear on all GT3 Cars but when you change the 6th gear ratio for example, its similar to the 5th. Try it out and you will see what i mean ;)
When it is in real life exactly the same, than i (we) have to live with that :culpability:

I also want it so close to reality as it could get, but i didn't know that this is for some cars like it is in pCars.

Panopticism
11-06-2015, 06:54
What are you talking about? Nobody is talking about the Bentley.

I think they were giving an example.

But in reality, the GT3 Bentley, GT3 Aston Martin, GT3 SLS have very little in common with their road going likenesses anyway. Many of the GT3 cars aren't even built in-house. I think Aston Martin race cars are still being built and sold by Prodrive?

Shepard2603
11-06-2015, 06:57
The Ruf isn't a real car so it can be under the weight limit if they want it to be. The MP4-12C GT3 has a ballast in real life for sure.
Are you talking about the GT3-Version or Ruf in general?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruf_RGT

GT_Racing
11-06-2015, 07:00
Are you talking about the GT3-Version or Ruf in general?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruf_RGT

-___- Really dude? Why even try to steer this off topic? Everybody on here knows that Rufs are real.

GT_Racing
11-06-2015, 07:02
I think they were giving an example.

But in reality, the GT3 Bentley, GT3 Aston Martin, GT3 SLS have very little in common with their road going likenesses anyway. Many of the GT3 cars aren't even built in-house. I think Aston Martin race cars are still being built and sold by Prodrive?

And what does that have to do with tuning?

Shepard2603
11-06-2015, 07:12
-___- Really dude? Why even try to steer this off topic? Everybody on here knows that Rufs are real.

Not a single second I wanted to steer anything elsewhere, I was just confused by his sentence "The Ruf isn't a real car...". I had some co-workers having a look at some youtube videos and they all said "Hey that's a Porsche" And it took me like 15 minutes to convince them that Ruf IS real... and there is no Porsche in this game.

Mea culpa!

apexatspeed
11-06-2015, 07:19
Are you talking about the GT3-Version or Ruf in general?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruf_RGT

Obviously I'm talking about the one that isn't real. Anybody on these forms knows enough about cars to know Rufs are real cars.

GT_Racing
11-06-2015, 07:24
Not a single second I wanted to steer anything elsewhere, I was just confused by his sentence "The Ruf isn't a real car...". I had some co-workers having a look at some youtube videos and they all said "Hey that's a Porsche" And it took me like 15 minutes to convince them that Ruf IS real... and there is no Porsche in this game.

Mea culpa!

Sorry

Panopticism
11-06-2015, 08:30
And what does that have to do with tuning?

Seriously? Well, if you can't figure that out for yourself, why don't you take a moment to dictate exactly the parameters, according to which this discussion may proceed? Maybe we can actually help you suffocate the conversation.


By the way, where did you see that the R8 can have adjustable weight ballasts/bias in SuperGT? I thought they received the 60kg weight based on their prior success in the series; they would be able to choose where the weight penalty is added, but that doesn't suggest that the car is built with adjustable weight bias from the factory. Some of these race cars are still built with a single weight bias option, irrespective of track, which cannot be adjusted through proprietary measures.

hkraft300
11-06-2015, 13:06
I meant the Bentley as an example.
Considering the level of detail, research, realism the SMS team have put in each and every car, I won't question their choices for why, I'm more curious of how!
Example: Maybe the SLS is really down at 1300kg without ballast, but Mercedes decided to homologate at 1350.
Maybe Bentley wouldn't provide ballast data for the continental. 2015 F1 cars have set weight distribution by the rules, so even if they run ballast, they can't move it. If they were brought to pCars, the weight distribution slider, I believe, would be locked.

WTFSeriously
09-10-2017, 00:52
So, from what I have gathered, real life GT3 rules only permit gear ratio changes (both individual transmission gears and rear diff ratios) to suit different tracks on certain cars that have went through multiple homogulation efforts? And the reason the cars in-game cannot be adjusted to suit individual tracks is to stick to as close to reality as possible? IF so, I guess it makes sense, but then why have the option available in game (and not grayed out) in the first place if all you can do is make 6th gear equal to 5th, essentially eliminating a gear altogether? Just curious.