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View Full Version : Calling out the wreckers...?



OpticalHercules
10-06-2015, 22:38
I know the mods and devs pretty much lock any thread calling out names or gamertags of players accused of cheating or other less than honorable play, and my question to those devs and mods is: why?

I understand we all paid our monies for this game, and we should all be able to enjoy the game as it was intended. But when others who pay the same money I did get their kicks by ruining the experience of everyone else have no reason to stop what they're doing, isn't that SMS basically admitting that their $60 is worth more than my $60? I have a hand written list of players who blink around the track and complete 4 laps in the time it takes one of us to get through the first turn, players just waiting for you to pass them so they can swerve in the middle of a straight lane and take you out, players who run full throttle from a standing start on the inside line right into and through turn one, taking as many others as they can with them.

The Xbox vote-to-kick does nothing other than alert the target of the vote that they should try even harder to wreck others before they get kicked and even then they are usually not ever removed. The only current way to avoid these characters is to go into the lobby list, click their profile, and block them through XBLive which should prevent them and you from being put into the same lobby again. the only resolution we have is one not offered by SMS.

Yes there's a difference between these bona fide wreckers and those who have a mishap on the track. Blowing an engine in the middle of a hairpin happens, or missing a shift and spinning out while taking someone with you. Anyone who's played multiplayer for even a little time has likely seen lag issues causing someone to appear to drive erratically, or being magically flipped by a car that was nowhere near you. Accidents happen, and there's not much anyone can do about them.

Why can't we have a wall of shame on this forum where we can list those individuals who think their money is more valuable than our own? If they want to ruin our experiences and SMS does nothing about it, why can't we ruin their reputation to any paying customer who cares enough to come to these boards and check?

nwrlchargerl
11-06-2015, 02:33
I thought the kick vote didn't appear on the screen of the person who is being kicked? I suppose if there's a group of them they call all inform each other if a kick vote has been placed

Umer Ahmad
11-06-2015, 02:38
We try to promote instead of shame. For each platform i have created stickied threads with the names of good drivers as reported by other drivers.

nwrlchargerl
11-06-2015, 04:39
Where are them threads?

Ian Bell
11-06-2015, 04:43
Also guys, we are working on auto ghosting logic to reduce the griefing they will be capable of, among other things.

TheReaper GT
11-06-2015, 04:59
I'd like to see video proof of the 4 laps in one turn time allegation. I know there are shity players in every single multiplayer in all platforms, but the allegation seems a bit harsh to me.

Umer Ahmad
11-06-2015, 05:02
Where are them threads?

PC (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?30389-Positive-Shoutouts-PC) "good guys"

XB1 (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?25749-XB1-Names-of-Clean-Racers)

Froggystomper
11-06-2015, 05:21
Also guys, we are working on auto ghosting logic to reduce the griefing they will be capable of, among other things.

Do you ever sleep fella? :eek:

Ian Bell
11-06-2015, 05:29
Do you ever sleep fella? :eek:

I got a little last night :)

Froggystomper
11-06-2015, 05:32
I got a little last night :)

Oi oi you filthy animal!

Saul93
11-06-2015, 05:59
Unfortunatly I was there and I saw it. This happens and it's really to bad but the auto ghosting will get rid of this and I'm sure we will see this soon.

OpticalHercules
11-06-2015, 06:04
I did not get video of the actual blinking around he track, but I did get video of that person, along with the members of his group when the left the match. Unfortunately I deleted this video yesterday figuring it would go nowhere and that I wouldn't waste my time posting a video of names leaving a MP match with nothing else, but then other events last evening got me riled up again enough to post this thread earlier this afternoon. The poster above confirmed he was there during the practice or qual session on Watkins Glen GP, using the Cobra TransAms. There were other members of the NACRA group who witnessed that specific allegation as well.

Darth Bambi 83
11-06-2015, 10:10
It would be good if SMS had a report system like they introduced to Forza 4 so they can ban griefers, that cleaned all the filth and crash kids from the lobbies pretty quickly.

GRTfast
11-06-2015, 12:02
Crashers can ruin the game. A true racing simulator should have a way to deal with them. That type of behavior isn't acceptable in real racing and has no place here either. I favor a strict policy against intentional crashes and cheaters.

Snowowl
11-06-2015, 14:01
In the meantime, use the Xbox One method of reporting this game-disrupting behavior (poor sportsmanship) by going into Friends in the Dashboard, then Find the gamertag and REPORT the actions. Those reports go to the Xbox Live Policy Enforcement Team (PET) and then have the capabilities to join offenders during their online sessions for observation and warning.

Not only will those incidents result in PET taking actions, but they have the power to instantly ban those who challenge what they warn about - not just from the game itself but Xbox Live. That really gets the attention of people who are destroying game play for others.

Don't get into discussions with the offenders, just observe, remember the gamertag and file the report. Let PET handle it.

TheReaper GT
11-06-2015, 16:03
I did not get video of the actual blinking around he track, but I did get video of that person, along with the members of his group when the left the match. Unfortunately I deleted this video yesterday figuring it would go nowhere and that I wouldn't waste my time posting a video of names leaving a MP match with nothing else, but then other events last evening got me riled up again enough to post this thread earlier this afternoon. The poster above confirmed he was there during the practice or qual session on Watkins Glen GP, using the Cobra TransAms. There were other members of the NACRA group who witnessed that specific allegation as well.

Don't get me wrong, please, I give up online racing because of the wreck it to win behavior and I'll come back to it only when i find some clean racers that race by the book. My question is more out of trully curiosity, 4 laps in seconds sounds like a major cheat that I thought was not possible on xbox one or PS4.

OpticalHercules
11-06-2015, 16:24
@ Snowowl I agree completely with you, and that is a path I have taken. In my OP I also mentioned blocking those persons' profiles as I beleive I have read that that will prevent you and that person from ever being put into the same mp lobby again across all of xbox live, not just PCars. My complaint is that the only resolution possible is through Xbox, and being that Xbox is not just PCars, the PET team is not likely to take as direct an action as would be possible is it were in SMS' hands. Even in SMS hands alone, they still are obligated to provide the wrecker his value in the game and so couldn't take much extreme action beyond blocking MP access for 24-48 hours or the like. Perhaps if there were a public listing of such characters, fewer legitimate players would be willing to even start races with these guys. But as others have stated, without a ban button there's nothing we can do besides report to xbox (not pcars) and leave the game hoping we'll get another without a wrecker in it or enter a private game. I do love private games, but I also like the opportunity to play with people when I don't quite know their driving style, and possibly meet new friends to bring in to our group.

@ SOi TheReaper What it appeared to be was a car that would blink it's way along the minimap in steps, not flowing along as a normal driver would see. On the game screen a car would briefly appear in front of your own car for less than a second, and then it would be blinked along much further down the track. Had there not been other members present in Live Chat commenting on the exact same behavior from an unidentifiable car (it was much too fast to read a name) I would have simply put it down to a glitch or very extreme lag. It appeared that this car that had been blinking along was appearing in front and then moving away at a rate meaning he would have been crossing the finish line 3 or 4 times in less time that it took one of us to complete the course. Perhaps I exaggerated the "first turn" comment, but if you know Watkins Glen course, then in between Turn 1 and the start of the Chicane, This one car blinked in front of my own 4 times. This character then left the game before an entire lap had been completed at normal pace.

Don Ente
11-06-2015, 17:45
... Perhaps if there were a public listing of such characters, fewer legitimate players would be willing to even start races with these guys. ...
Couple reasons why that can't / won't work...


Lack of proof / evidence. Even if you record record the incidents, things can be manipulated - and there is no way of knowing what led-up-to the wrecker's actions. I, for one, advocate the approach of "never retaliate," but I know from experience I'm in the minority. So "Bob" gets his friends "Dave" and "Joe" to repeatedly wreck "Steve" ... when Steve retaliates, Bob records it and Steve gets publicly labelled a wrecker.

The other side of retaliation. You post "Bob"'s name in the public wrecker list... next thing you know, *your* name starts showing up. Bob put it there... he got his friends to put it there... he created additional forum accounts to put it there...

Invalid reporting of crashers. Again, from experience, a LOT of people get angry at the first incident of contact, even if it's minor, and start screaming bloody murder, start blocking, bumping, ramming in retaliation... which leads the first guy - who felt it was accidental - to start fighting back, and it becomes a mess. Which is followed by everybody involved reporting everyone else on the public wrecker list.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with you and your friends keeping a list amongst yourselves...

- Don

OpticalHercules
11-06-2015, 18:53
Couple reasons why that can't / won't work...


Lack of proof / evidence. Even if you record record the incidents, things can be manipulated - and there is no way of knowing what led-up-to the wrecker's actions. I, for one, advocate the approach of "never retaliate," but I know from experience I'm in the minority. So "Bob" gets his friends "Dave" and "Joe" to repeatedly wreck "Steve" ... when Steve retaliates, Bob records it and Steve gets publicly labelled a wrecker.

The other side of retaliation. You post "Bob"'s name in the public wrecker list... next thing you know, *your* name starts showing up. Bob put it there... he got his friends to put it there... he created additional forum accounts to put it there...

Invalid reporting of crashers. Again, from experience, a LOT of people get angry at the first incident of contact, even if it's minor, and start screaming bloody murder, start blocking, bumping, ramming in retaliation... which leads the first guy - who felt it was accidental - to start fighting back, and it becomes a mess. Which is followed by everybody involved reporting everyone else on the public wrecker list.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with you and your friends keeping a list amongst yourselves...

- Don


I have to say I do not disagree with anything you said.

nwrlchargerl
11-06-2015, 21:14
An impact rating would fix the issue.

PAUL Y0UNG
12-06-2015, 07:50
An impact rating would fix the issue.

Such as the one in Grid Autosport

Goodlybenny45
12-06-2015, 08:53
Just like to say I'm new to project cars, so basically I suck at the game. Played it on solo for maybe 10 hrs all in......so decided I'd have a shot at the online multiplayer experience �� last night ......what a bleeding blast ! I knew I'd suck so I tried to keep out of the way of the pros and give them all room. And to my amazement , they didn't ram me off the track and they all drove like you always dream online drivers would act/ drive .....sensible , fair , and driving friggin fast.
The complete opposite to forza ( my experience anyway ) where you just get taken out for no apparent reason, demolition derby style. Hopefully with me putting the hrs in I'll maybe quicken my lap times , but even thou I was last , I had a superb time !
Throughly enjoying this game ( probly the best I've played , apart from outrun and mayb sega rally back in the day ) , highly recommended game .

Tillj
12-06-2015, 10:29
Also guys, we are working on auto ghosting logic to reduce the griefing they will be capable of, among other things.

So Ian can we turn it off in a lobby (if this is implemented), In our league we'd rather not have it on as if someone crashes and bounces onto the track we want the drivers to avoid the carnage with the possibility of wrecking out them selves - rather than driving through it.

OpticalHercules
12-06-2015, 18:12
So Ian can we turn it off in a lobby (if this is implemented), In our league we'd rather not have it on as if someone crashes and bounces onto the track we want the drivers to avoid the carnage with the possibility of wrecking out them selves - rather than driving through it.

Also a fantastic idea. The auto ghosting would be great as an option available to the host to implement. Public I'd most definitely want it on, private maybe depending on car type and everyone's familiarity with those cars. Dewfinitely as an option please!

Brent G
12-06-2015, 19:24
Also guys, we are working on auto ghosting logic to reduce the griefing they will be capable of, among other things.

Like the sound of that, the infantile behaviour of the 'crasher's' keeps me from participating in online race's. Cant believe that these people have an amazingly created and realistic racer and all they want to do is behave like children and spoil genuine enthusiasts driving pleasure. I find it hard to fathom how smashing your and someone else's car to bits can be more pleasurable than putting up a good fight with your fellow racers or laying down the perfect lap. It boggles the mind it truly does.

Del Zotto x82x
12-06-2015, 22:45
My life is wrecked, so I am going to wreck yours!

Is their mentality

AdM1
13-06-2015, 01:02
Is it okay to punt people off if they corner cut? Lol.

browny8099
13-06-2015, 08:45
it is a difficult one to police though, I absolutely agree that something needs to be done however, how do a system decide what was an intended 'take out' compared to that of an accident. I have raced many times on Forza in decent lobbies and been on the receiving end as well as 'dishing' it out by accident. On both occasions the recipient felt that it was on purpose and it was only through live chat that it was cleared up. Blind spots, lag, loss of control, distracted by kids, they all contribute to that split second decision that could wreck some ones race. But I ask you should that person be penalised for that? Maybe so...

Why not introduce a license like in F1, once you get x number of points on your license then you are either removed from lobby or set to ghost. Or have the license thing is a something that keeps with you and not just for that lobby, encourage the person to stay clean. Those that are not that bothered about clean racing can still enjoy the game (as it is intended to be played) but will have to do so as a ghost, think of it as having your license taken away from you. Just a thought, and granted not easy to implement, thing is nothing will be otherwise it would have been done already

stitchbob
13-06-2015, 12:40
^ I think there's a clear difference between an accidental bump in the heat of a race vs someone just out to wreck everyone.

On the whole I've been enjoying some great racing on project cars. There seems to be more people that race respectfully than on Forza. The skill gap is larger so I've encountered less idiots. I'm by no means the fastest but I think it's harder for these morons to keep crashing for a whole race.

But wow. Last night someone just completely ruined it.

Imola. 7 lap race. We started the lobby with 8 people and ended with just me and 'the problem'.

Im assuming people left because he was taking out everyone, or it's common for people to quit if they see they're not competing (I don't get that, I race to the end even if I've had to pit or limp across the line!), anyway by lap 5 I had a 20 second lead on 'the problem' and he started to corner cut A LOT. I mean basically running straight over every single chicane possible. And frustratingly that allowed him to catch up to me, I just hate that someone can cheat to do that. I don't know why he wasn't DQ'd for driving out the track limits (I guess the lobby had that off) but coming toward the final tight chicane I just knew he was coming to plough into me. And you guessed it. He runs straight over chicane and rams me off the road on the straight.

I then pass him cleanly and rams me off for a second time.

You can see him clearly cutting on the map (making up a 3.5 second gap) then ram me off twice in this clip:

https://account.xbox.com/en-gb/gameclip/d261ce77-ef36-4b1d-9f02-912fc84a1823?gamerTag=stitchbob&scid=73940100-ce28-4018-8964-96c471b05334

What I didn't capture is that I then passed him cleanly on the final lap and he then takes me out on the same place on the second to last corner driving into me full speed and flipping my car.

It's these people we need to be able to protect the game from because it really ruins it for everyone. I hadn't seen this guy from lap 1 and he takes it on himself to take me out.

He's now blocked and I'm starting to add clean racers so that I can hopefully start avoiding public lobbies... it's just a shame that a few ruin it for many.

Sorry for the long post.... I need to vent! :)

browny8099
13-06-2015, 13:46
These people need hunting down and castrating.

Dan77 DESTROYER
13-06-2015, 14:17
I had a mixed bag last night, had a few lobby's (public) with some very good close clean racing but the lobby's with these guys hitting people off is seriously sad.