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TweakerFiles
11-06-2015, 21:56
profanity

bmanic
11-06-2015, 21:59
Sounds really weird if it is clipping. What are the default settings for G27? Have you taken a look at the advanced parameters to check if they are okay or buggered? Also, make sure you REMOVE all previous FFB tweaker .xml files or you will have a very strange experience.

N0body Of The Goat
11-06-2015, 22:02
Monster amounts of FFB clipping (within 11 to 1 o' clock rotation) on the default "Fanatec 911 Turbo GT3 RS Gated Shifter" wheel profile too, my arms were struggling to contain the earthquake on my desk with LMP and Formula A cars at Spa! ;)

It still clips, but the FFB strength is much more bearable with 100 FFB and 25 Tire Force.

Edit: This was with a fresh pCARS profile.

mister dog
11-06-2015, 22:25
CSR here, made sure i calibrated my pedals and wheels again as initially the pedals didn't respond anymore. Afterwards all seems fine. It might be the placebo effect but i feel better feedback from the road surface and kerbs, and no clipping or a heavier wheel at all.

Umer Ahmad
11-06-2015, 22:34
Best place to test the ffb are laser scanned tracks like Oulton and Brands

dantheo
11-06-2015, 22:37
I think it's car specific. I jumped straight in the R8 LMS at 100/100 Wheel & Tire Force, and it was clipping, and way too heavy. So I went looking at the car FFB setup. All four key sliders were at 100, Fx, Fz, Fy etc.

Then drove the Lancer at 100/100. Nowhere near as bad, feels about right, and right on the edge of the FFB meter. Why? Because the car specific FFB has been tuned, 110, 28, 30, 100 respectively.

So it appears some cars have been tuned, others not. Those that haven't are going to clip because everything on the car itself is set to 100.

Note - I removed my FFB folder, so I'm not using tweakers.

yusupov
11-06-2015, 22:41
pretty sure its just a recommendation, chill out...

jason
11-06-2015, 22:45
I also Use those tracks to tune all my cars as they give the best feedback . Not as if you want to use a track that is dead flat to tune your feedback ?

yusupov
11-06-2015, 22:47
Don't patronise me. I am chilled. I think it's an appalling attitude to suggest that patch improvements might be more noticeable on some tracks than others.

well, he meant more that flaws will be more noticeable, imo. in terms of road feel, for sure, its always been recommended to me to test the scanned tracks bc its believed they have a higher density mesh, so you get more complex feedback. its a solid suggestion youre just taking it the wrong way, i dont even think it was aimed at you.

dantheo
11-06-2015, 22:48
Are you saying the Lancer has been tuned by the patch?

Yes, exactly that. At least it appears that way. Fx at 110, Fy 28, Fz 30 Mz 100. I didn't change these, and was using tweaker files before, which I removed.

Need to look at more cars. Maybe some didn't get changed and these are the ones that are clipping?

yusupov
11-06-2015, 22:50
also @tweaker, dont report posts like that. grow up. hows that for patronizing & insulting...

Sampo
11-06-2015, 22:53
Anyone feeling courageous enough to delete their profile and trying with the new defaults?

dantheo
11-06-2015, 22:56
Are you saying the Lancer has been tuned by the patch? My Lancer were all at 100.01, same as pre-patch (no tweaker files in use either).

Hmmm, on second thoughts. Maybe the Lancer had an old setup I did before applying tweaker files en-masse. So stuff got left behind in the setup. Any car I go to without a setup is 100 across the board. False alarm!!

So, yes, mucho clipping. And now not sure if I should be setting car specific sliders back to reduce lateral & vertical & enhance effects, or just reduce TF overall. Not really sure what has changed on the FFB front, other than defaulting my TX to 100 strength on the controls page?

N0body Of The Goat
11-06-2015, 22:57
Anyone feeling courageous enough to delete their profile and trying with the new defaults?

Just edited my earlier post, it was with a fresh profile.

nhraracer
11-06-2015, 23:01
<profanity>

WOW!

spinkick
11-06-2015, 23:01
CSR here, made sure i calibrated my pedals and wheels again as initially the pedals didn't respond anymore. Afterwards all seems fine. It might be the placebo effect but i feel better feedback from the road surface and kerbs, and no clipping or a heavier wheel at all.

Are you using any of the tweaker files or settings?

yusupov
11-06-2015, 23:02
WOW!

hes perfectly calm. :cool:

mister dog
11-06-2015, 23:03
Are you using any of the tweaker files or settings?

Nope, but on half of the cars i adjusted the individual FFB settings. Doesn't matter anyway as i just tried a stock setting on one i didn't tune and all was fine too.

Edit; the hell happened with the OP? Gilles de la Tourette in the house?

madmax2069
11-06-2015, 23:12
WOW!

Yeah my thoughts exactly.

spinkick
11-06-2015, 23:22
Nope, but on half of the cars i adjusted the individual FFB settings. Doesn't matter anyway as i just tried a stock setting on one i didn't tune and all was fine too.

Edit; the hell happened with the OP? Gilles de la Tourette in the house?

:abnormal:

Sampo
11-06-2015, 23:23
Just tried F Rookie on Brands Hatch and didn't notice any bad changes with the FFB. I hadn't changed anything from the defaults though.

TenthDan
11-06-2015, 23:26
OP banned for a week. I'm going to assume a bad day or something given the original posts started reasonable enough.

Jan Studenski
11-06-2015, 23:38
OP banned for a week. I'm going to assume a bad day or something given the original posts started reasonable enough.

I would have permabanned him

Btw: Why not showing us the Orginal Post?



About Force Feedback:
Car & Track: Imola, Aston Martin GT3, exact same setup, default FFB Values in the Aston Setup

Patch 1.3 & before: Default G27 but FFB Strenght at 100%
Patch 1.4: New Default G27

Positive:
You can feel certain effects better than before

Negative:
I suddenly have Center Spring (with same Logitech Profiler - 0% Force Center Spring helped a bit)
Way too strong FFB ... this is a race car, not a truck --> 80% Logitech Profiler FFB Strength helped me a lot
I have a lot of clipping sometimes - imo its should be the target to never have clipping, except when car is damaged

[Removed this part of the post, as what i report seems to be a bug / Not intentional]

I hope it helps - Greez

Note: I have no profiles in the Logitech Profiler - im just using the Global Settings

POSTEDIT: Yes i resetted my Wheel so i can see the changes --- definitely the same thing as ppl reported in the following posts --- seems definitely like a bug :(

Roger Prynne
11-06-2015, 23:40
OP banned for a week. I'm going to assume a bad day or something given the original posts started reasonable enough.
That's no excuse.

yusupov
11-06-2015, 23:42
he didnt say anything abusive or cruel...just...kinda exploded.

idk im not a fan of permabans personally, esp if there isnt prior warning.

Pink_650S
11-06-2015, 23:45
OP banned for a week. I'm going to assume a bad day or something given the original posts started reasonable enough.

1 week for that?
I'm wondering what you would have to do to be banned permanently... :p

Roger Prynne
11-06-2015, 23:46
he didnt say anything abusive or cruel...just...kinda exploded.

idk im not a fan of permabans personally, esp if there isnt prior warning.

Are you kidding me... some have been banned for a lot less.
Where's Ian when you need him.


Profanity and insults removed

grimdanfango
11-06-2015, 23:52
I just tried out the BMW Z4 on Hockenheim GP, with my control profile reset to defaults (except 100 FFB rather than the default 75), and with Jack Spade's tweaks temporarily removed. I get a 100% fully-clipped FFB signal even just trying to steer gently along a straight, and even after I then jumped out and set up "Soft Clipping", which either means soft clipping stopped working, or it was outputting above the 2.0 full-range setting I use. 2.0 FFB signal just trying to steer gently along the straights strikes me that there may be some bugs gotten in here.

Also - might it be worth moving the Patch FFB discussion to a new thread with a slightly less inflamatory opening post so we can get the discussion back on track?

spinkick
11-06-2015, 23:53
You guys must be sheltered if that was so offensive :P

FuriousDemon
11-06-2015, 23:53
I think OP forgot that this is just a game. That blew his mind. He must have thought it was real life.

Roger Prynne
11-06-2015, 23:56
You guys must be sheltered if that was so offensive :P

That's not the point... I swear like a trouper myself but not on a public forum or in public.
What if my 8 year old granddaughter was looking over my shoulder and read that in the morning.

Umer Ahmad
11-06-2015, 23:57
No he will be perma-banned as he sent some staff insulting PMs on his way out

Roger Prynne
12-06-2015, 00:00
Right then back on topic.

yusupov
12-06-2015, 00:00
well "offensive", sure. but its just a string of words expressing anger; it wasnt personal or anything. maybe he has anger management issues & after a week to cool down he'll be better about handling himself better here. if not, its just a click to ban the guy. my 0.02 anyway.

re the ffb, im curious as to what exactly was changed. to be perfectly honest, im not sure i can tell a difference between the default & the jack spade package i was using. which is to say -- it feels great to me, & i applaud the change.

not sure where the clipping comes in, if someone can post a car or car + track id like to see if i have similar issues. ive only driven a couple cars, the lotus 78 at brands which i use as a ffb benchmark & the lykan bc it was the last car i drove before the update.

Stones
12-06-2015, 00:05
Is it a given that all of JS's tweaker files should be removed? And I assume we're to do all our adjusting in game?

Thanks

yusupov
12-06-2015, 00:09
no, as i understand it you can just leave his files. but i removed them & can't tell the difference, so who knows :)

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 00:11
Is it a given that all of JS's tweaker files should be removed? And I assume we're to do all our adjusting in game?

Actually, it seems the problems are that at least some cars have their default FFB profile set to "100, 100, 100, 100..." after the patch, so whatever changes have been made, it appears it'd be best to keep JS's tweaks in there for the time being, to override them back to sane values until this gets addressed.

Edit: No, actually, it seems the problem is still there even with the tweaker files loaded. I still get massively overcranked full-clipping forces in the BMW Z4 on any track.

stux
12-06-2015, 00:18
well "offensive", sure. but its just a string of words expressing anger; it wasnt personal or anything. maybe he has anger management issues & after a week to cool down he'll be better about handling himself better here. if not, its just a click to ban the guy. my 0.02 anyway.

re the ffb, im curious as to what exactly was changed. to be perfectly honest, im not sure i can tell a difference between the default & the jack spade package i was using. which is to say -- it feels great to me, & i applaud the change.

not sure where the clipping comes in, if someone can post a car or car + track id like to see if i have similar issues. ive only driven a couple cars, the lotus 78 at brands which i use as a ffb benchmark & the lykan bc it was the last car i drove before the update.

It's not the forums job to baby sit someone's anger issues. If someone has 'issues', that's their problem and their problem to fix.

The OPs edit was the first post I've reported on this forum. It was bad.

Post #15 needs editing too

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 00:24
So, anyone had any luck working out what's going on with FFB? Do we need to wipe profiles or something to clear out some bad settings, or is there definitely something broken in the patch?

yusupov
12-06-2015, 00:28
not advising the mod to give him counseling sessions, just saying i backed his decision to click one button as opposed to a different button. if it had been (as it apparently got) personal, itd feel differently. i dont find a tourettes like string of profanities 'hurtful', merely immature. and tbh these days, many would probably find more issue w/ that metaphor than anything the guy said.

poirqc
12-06-2015, 00:29
G27 User here.

G25/27 guide profiler setup. With or without deadzone. Reset to controler default on 1.4.

I get 100% clipping in the ginetta junior, Donington international, right after pit exit. It clips as soon as i turn left or right. I'll lower the ffb strengh in the profiler to see if it helps.

Edit - i change the FFB in the profiler and close it afterwards

Edit#2 - Same amount of clipping, the wheel is just easier to turn.

Roger Prynne
12-06-2015, 00:32
OK guys he's been banned so lets get on with subject of the topic.

Alan Dallas
12-06-2015, 00:34
I stuck with my custom FFB XML's for the cars I drive most often. No change from the way it felt pre-patch, as it should. :)

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 00:34
I've tried it on a few different cars now, and they're all exactly the same. It feels like someone missed a decimal point somewhere - it's like I'm getting 2.0 where it used to be 0.2

Can anyone definitely confirm this *isn't* affecting them since the patch? If it isn't affecting everyone, I get the feeling it could be something about my profile glitching out or some-such.

JeyD02
12-06-2015, 00:36
The patch is out already?

yusupov
12-06-2015, 00:37
G27 User here.

G25/27 guide profiler setup. With or without deadzone. Reset to controler default on 1.4.

I get 100% clipping in the ginetta junior, Donington international, right after pit exit. It clips as soon as i turn left or right. I'll lower the ffb strengh in the profiler to see if it helps.

Edit - i change the FFB in the profiler and close it afterwards

Edit#2 - Same amount of clipping, the wheel is just easier to turn.

im getting no clipping at all, but im now pretty convinced im still running jack spade settings, specifically the bumps+ (or some edits i did to the one prior to that).

just to be sure, the ffb folder goes into user/documents/project cars, correct?? i deleted it & am having no issues, but also havent noticed any changes.

spinkick
12-06-2015, 00:37
That's not the point... I swear like a trouper myself but not on a public forum or in public.
What if my 8 year old granddaughter was looking over my shoulder and read that in the morning.

You see honey..force feedback clipping is when (her eyes glaze over)...mission accomplished.

yusupov
12-06-2015, 00:38
I've tried it on a few different cars now, and they're all exactly the same. It feels like someone missed a decimal point somewhere - it's like I'm getting 2.0 where it used to be 0.2

Can anyone definitely confirm this *isn't* affecting them since the patch? If it isn't affecting everyone, I get the feeling it could be something about my profile glitching out or some-such.

something of the kind is going on, i agree. im definitely not effected, as i posted above, even after deleting the tweak folder, it feels the same, which is just as strange.

Alan Dallas
12-06-2015, 00:39
The patch is out already?

Yes, for PC, since about 1:55pm PDT

poirqc
12-06-2015, 00:43
Well, if i lower the Tire force to 25, i get the FFB out of clipping. It seems the profiler strenght is just a linear force on the wheel. It doesn't help or worsen the clipping.

I'll use jacks files again to see how it goes.

Julio Cesar
12-06-2015, 00:45
I'm sure a central spring is there. I tested with 20 tire force and the FFB was still clipping. It started right after I reset the ingame wheel profile, before it was normal.
Logitech DFGT here.

Roger Prynne
12-06-2015, 01:06
Well everything is just as perfect as it was before so no probs here.

poirqc
12-06-2015, 01:06
After lowering the Tire Force at 25 and using Jacks 66% SoPLateral files. I can say it's ok again. No clipping, ok FFB.

However, my FFB graph seems pretty bland if i compare it to Timo's one (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23124-FFB-Tuning-(my-thoughts-)&p=915120&viewfull=1#post915120)

What's your thought on that?

thank you

Ghost_rider
12-06-2015, 01:23
@ Roger Prynne you can ventilating your point of view anywhere on the forum were others have issues with the same statements, "all is fine at your end" But its like as say, a blind man says 'i dont see any' it will not say its not there.....so keep it constructed and that will apply as well for a mod/ employee of the company...cheers

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 01:28
Well, I temporarily deleted my My Documents profile folder, and my steam user profile folder, and started again from scratch. It's exactly the same... massive centering spring effect at all times - the rest of the FFB seems to be there, but it only has room to come through when driving in a dead-straight line, otherwise it's just full clipping.
I tried dropping tire force down - at 25 it wasn't clipping, but barely does anything at all... almost totally limp. At 50, it wasn't really much different to 25, vague and limp. At 75, it jumps straight back to massive forces and clipping.

I've really no idea what's going on at this point, but for now the patch seems to have rendered the game entirely undrivable for me. I guess I'll wait and see what gets worked out tomorrow.

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 01:30
@ Roger Prynne you can ventilating your point of view anywhere on the forum were others have issues with the same statements, "all is fine at your end" But its like as say, a blind man says 'i dont see any' it will not say its not there.....so keep it constructed and that will apply as well for a mod/ employee of the company...cheers

I don't see him saying "I'm not having a problem so you must be making it up". It's just as helpful to confirm that the problem isn't affecting everyone... it suggests there's something in people's local setups that is causing it.

Ghost_rider
12-06-2015, 01:44
And its still not constructive to ventilate this point of views as bugs never, most of the time, applied to everyone if thats the case it would be all easy....anyway you applied the patch....got some issues as well and now you tell me its in your settings instantly?? whoauw And for the easy part if people saying the same after an event like this it must not be on our hands but its the particular patch...like i said before But its like as say, a blind man says 'i dont see any' it will not say its not there so keep it constructed and lets not unnecessary posting...Oh and for the record i know my stuff on pc land more i dont say.

TenthDan
12-06-2015, 01:46
NVM, missed a page...

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 01:58
And its still not constructive to ventilate this point of views as bugs never, most of the time, applied to everyone if thats the case it would be all easy....anyway you applied the patch....got some issues as well and now you tell me its in your settings instantly?? whoauw And for the easy part if people saying the same after an event like this it must not be on our hands but its the particular patch...like i said before But its like as say, a blind man says 'i dont see any' it will not say its not there so keep it constructed and lets not unnecessary posting...Oh and for the record i know my stuff on pc land more i dont say.

Between your posts and my responses, we've already posted four comments that add less to the discussion than Roger Prynne's did.

poirqc
12-06-2015, 02:09
I tried dropping tire force down - at 25 it wasn't clipping, but barely does anything at all... almost totally limp. At 50, it wasn't really much different to 25, vague and limp. At 75, it jumps straight back to massive forces and clipping.

I've really no idea what's going on at this point, but for now the patch seems to have rendered the game entirely undrivable for me. I guess I'll wait and see what gets worked out tomorrow.
I said the FFB was ok, but you explained it better than me. I'm in the same boat as you

I'll try to post video of the FFB telemetry results, i've never recorded videos. I know i can stream with Steam, but can it record videos?

Thank you

madmax2069
12-06-2015, 02:19
And its still not constructive to ventilate this point of views as bugs never, most of the time, applied to everyone if thats the case it would be all easy....anyway you applied the patch....got some issues as well and now you tell me its in your settings instantly?? whoauw And for the easy part if people saying the same after an event like this it must not be on our hands but its the particular patch...like i said before But its like as say, a blind man says 'i dont see any' it will not say its not there so keep it constructed and lets not unnecessary posting...Oh and for the record i know my stuff on pc land more i dont say.


Seems like you miss the point entirely.

With him saying he doesn't have these issues is just as helpful as someone stating they have the issue.

3800racingfool
12-06-2015, 02:40
Experiencing similar issues with centering spring here (G27).

Didn't notice a difference between 1.3 and 1.4 at first, then I reset my FFB/wheel settings and it immediately starting going haywire in the next session. Centering spring is going nuts and the FFB flatlines.

Kinda wish I hadn't reset but ah well, live and learn I guess. Time to experiment!


EDIT: after changing my deadzone back to 0.00 the centering issue is gone, however the FFB still flatlines when turning the wheel even slightly (maybe 3š or so?).

EDIT2: Set the Tire Force to 50 (everything else still at defaults), steering's lighter but still pretty dull feeling and still tops out. Though this time it takes about 15*š of turn to clip.

EDIT3: Also noticed the wheel turns to the left when in the garage during a session. It'll just keep turning until it hits lock. Can be turned back to 0š but if you let go it'll just rotate back again. I re-calibrated the wheel this time turning it right (instead of left like I usually do) and it's had no effect. Wheel still turns left in the garage/pitbox.

EDIT4: Well, after mucking about with it for a while about the only thing that seems to help at all is reducing the Master Scale in the car setup. It still feels dull but if you set it to about 10 or so it gets rid of most of the clipping without feeling too light. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can provide some input here soon.

Lawndarts
12-06-2015, 02:42
Did SMS just integrate Jacks files/settings?

And is the center spring issues a certain wheel?

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 03:57
As best I can work out so far, this seems to happen regardless of what model wheel people have. Would make sense, as the telemetry FFB graph is obviously showing that the game is generating a wildly incorrect signal, and that would manifest on any FFB hardware as much as any other.

I have no evidence, but I'm getting the feeling this could be a problem affecting those of us who did a controller settings reset after the patch landed, in anticipation of seeing what the patch's FFB tweaks had changed, and that the people who are finding nothing has changed since the patch are those who have just left things as they were. I've got no way to go back to my old settings now though, so I can't test the theory.

Anyone willing to test their FFB before and after they reset their settings to work out if that's what's doing it?

Liquid_Drummer
12-06-2015, 04:31
Another user here with screaming FFB. Peaking unless low tire force and then it's limp :(.

3800racingfool
12-06-2015, 04:37
As best I can work out so far, this seems to happen regardless of what model wheel people have. Would make sense, as the telemetry FFB graph is obviously showing that the game is generating a wildly incorrect signal, and that would manifest on any FFB hardware as much as any other.

I have no evidence, but I'm getting the feeling this could be a problem affecting those of us who did a controller settings reset after the patch landed, in anticipation of seeing what the patch's FFB tweaks had changed, and that the people who are finding nothing has changed since the patch are those who have just left things as they were. I've got no way to go back to my old settings now though, so I can't test the theory.

Anyone willing to test their FFB before and after they reset their settings to work out if that's what's doing it?

This is my theory as well. Unfortunately I'm in the same boat as you since I was stupid and didn't save a backup of my settings (don't even know where they are tbh).

FuriousDemon
12-06-2015, 04:38
I had issues with the "heavy" FFB, or FFB clipping. Actually, it started for me after I bought the new DLC.
Even trying to calibrate the wheel, it was almost impossible, cause it was too heavy.

I was able to solve the problem now. Deleted my profile, calibrated wheel again, put it my old Fx,Fy,Fz values (58-50-70) and all is great! Even better now, I can feel the loss of grip under braking better.
So if you have this issue, please delete your profile and try again (back it up just in case).

Krobo
12-06-2015, 05:24
Just to add > G27 here .. made no changes just download patch and play = wheel working fine .. I don't know if its placebo but it seems to feel a lot better !

no clipping , 25 cars mp @ RA in the BMWZ4 GT3 curbs n bumps seemed more alive ..

or I could be imagining it lol

either way it feels great ..

I don't use logitech profiler

I set/map'd all the buttons for what I wanted in the pCars menu on day, one the first time I fired up the game, and never went back to the configure pages ..

all my mappings still work ectt...

hope this helps ..

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 05:28
...
I was able to solve the problem now. Deleted my profile, calibrated wheel again, put it my old Fx,Fy,Fz values (58-50-70) and all is great! Even better now, I can feel the loss of grip under braking better.
So if you have this issue, please delete your profile and try again (back it up just in case).
I already tried this - deleted my profile from the steam directory, and from my-documents. pCars was reset back entirely to "choose your difficulty mode" and voice-overs-explaining-everything... I then set up the input device from scratch, and recalibrated.
Still the same problem for me...

Liquid_Drummer
12-06-2015, 05:29
This is my theory as well. Unfortunately I'm in the same boat as you since I was stupid and didn't save a backup of my settings (don't even know where they are tbh).

WHen you say profile which files do you mean ? Thx.

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 05:33
Just to add > G27 here .. made no changes just download patch and play = wheel working fine .. I don't know if its placebo but it seems to feel a lot better !
no clipping , 25 cars mp @ RA in the BMWZ4 GT3 curbs n bumps seemed more alive ..
...
Now, with it working perfectly, are you brave enough to try a controller options reset-to-defaults to see if it still works just as well for you afterwards? :-) (definitely be sure to back up your profile first though!)

jgaganas
12-06-2015, 05:39
I'm sure a central spring is there. I tested with 20 tire force and the FFB was still clipping. It started right after I reset the ingame wheel profile, before it was normal.
Logitech DFGT here.

Is there a "clipping meter" in game for visual checking?

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 05:43
WHen you say profile which files do you mean ? Thx.
Was that meant to be a reply to me?

The main profile lives in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\<your_user_number>\234630\
(234630 being the official app-number of Project Cars on Steam)
There's some additional settings in your "My Documents/Project Cars/" folder.

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 05:46
Is there a "clipping meter" in game for visual checking?

If you switch your HUD onto "Telemetry" mode, the graph in the top-left of the screen will show clipping... the FFB signal occupies the top half of the graph - basically, if it flatlines against the top or half-way-down-point in that box, you're hitting 100% force and clipping.

jgaganas
12-06-2015, 05:59
Thanks, overlooked that, because never had any hard clipping before. Will check with the CSWv1 in the afternoon.

mattcwell
12-06-2015, 06:15
Just tried a few cars with the 911 GT3 RS v2 and thought it felt pretty good. I have been playing with the Jack Spade FFB and modified defaults. For the new patch settings I reset all wheel settings and deleted the tweaker settings, and thought the new settings felt slightly better. Kept everything default. As far as the FFB is concerned, 1.4 looks like a success.

Andrew_WOT
12-06-2015, 06:19
T300RS here, reset settings and created new profile from the scratch. New default FFB force is 75%, set it to recommended (always) 100%, heavy clipping. Could tame it down only by lowering Tire force from 100% to 30%. Using Jack's files (folder 5, brake rumble). After that things went to normal.

I also use all (word by word) Jack's recommended settings in Calibrate feedback menu.

N0body Of The Goat
12-06-2015, 06:39
Just tried my backup pCARS profile, created on retail release day, with 100 FFB and 95 Tire Force (plus 0.06 Deadzone Removal Zone and 0.05 Deazone Fallout).

With the Lotus 98T, my wheel did not try to shake my arms lose. ;)

PzR Slim
12-06-2015, 07:24
I use a CSW v2 with Jacks latest tweaks. Didn't change anything after or before the patch and ffb feels just as fantastic as it did before the patch.

Jack Spade
12-06-2015, 07:54
I use a CSW v2 with Jacks latest tweaks. Didn't change anything after or before the patch and ffb feels just as fantastic as it did before the patch.

I 100% agree.

The tweaker files settings or the individual car setup FFB menu settings are NOT affected, just the global wheel presets could be. If some type of wheels feel much stronger than before
simply reduce Tire Force. I checked the patch with a new game profile and the previous one for me thereīs no difference, so donīt delete your profile if you want to preserve your
carrier.

BTW in the wheel preset for the CSWv2 default FFB is still at 50 (should be at 100) so business as usual.

jgaganas
12-06-2015, 10:02
Confirmed, no hard clipping/issues with the CSW v1 after patch (Stock 1.4 or Jacks 1.6). Tested with the Mono@Oulton Park.

But you probably want to make a profile-backup before "resetting" (just in case).


Update: Resetting gives me indeed a super strong FFB (and clipping), but i don't see any difference in the default settings (going back old profile works fine)!?

Update 2: Tested twice. Hitting the Reset-Button gives you "FFB of Death" (with or without Jacks Tweaks). FFB/Tire Force still at 100%.

Silvio Camolesi
12-06-2015, 10:36
Come on SMS, put the trainee to reconfigure the FFB?
It's too bad, too heavy, clipping, I can't feel the curbs, and worst of all, I can not recover my profile. Before resetting my profile, I'd saved the previous ("Documents" folder), but even restoring, the FFB is still bad. Any chance to have the "old" one back?

David Slute
12-06-2015, 10:36
My wheel was fine after the patch and reading some of the issue people were having with clipping i tried to re eanct it by resetting my wheel profile and i can confirm it full on clips when turning now aswell

Thrustmaster tx

RomKnight
12-06-2015, 10:38
Come on SMS, put the trainee to reconfigure the FFB?
It's too bad, too heavy, clipping, I can't feel the curbs, and worst of all, I can not recover my profile. Before resetting my profile, I'd saved the previous ("Documents" folder), but even restoring, the FFB is still bad. Any chance to have the "old" one back?

The profile is not in "My documents\project cars folder" for a long time.

poirqc
12-06-2015, 11:30
The FFB of death seams related to reseting the wheel control.

Could someone, who didn't reset his settings, could post his controller FFB setings and a quick telemetry hud vid.

People with problems could have a reference to compare to.

Thank you

Roger Prynne
12-06-2015, 11:40
Come on SMS, put the trainee to reconfigure the FFB?
It's too bad, too heavy, clipping, I can't feel the curbs, and worst of all, I can not recover my profile. Before resetting my profile, I'd saved the previous ("Documents" folder), but even restoring, the FFB is still bad. Any chance to have the "old" one back?


Wherever Steam is installed\Steam\userdata\<your Steam ID>\234630\local\project cars\profiles\default.sav

That file contains everything you need to backup.

Ian Bell
12-06-2015, 11:42
Come on SMS, put the trainee to reconfigure the FFB?
It's too bad, too heavy, clipping, I can't feel the curbs, and worst of all, I can not recover my profile. Before resetting my profile, I'd saved the previous ("Documents" folder), but even restoring, the FFB is still bad. Any chance to have the "old" one back?

Don't be rude.

Wolkenwolf
12-06-2015, 11:58
G25 - center spring way to strong.
Reset made. Profiles deleted, nothing changes.
Logitech profiler set to not allow that game changes settings. No chance.

:confused:

[edit]
Also clipping.
No tweaker files.

F2kSel
12-06-2015, 12:07
Can't say I noticed any difference in my FFB G25, I only use low settings and no tweakers.

yusupov
12-06-2015, 12:59
how does one 'reset'? is that wheel calibration?

just want to make sure i dont do it until this is resolved.

FuriousDemon
12-06-2015, 13:05
If you go to controller settings (page with th wheel picture in it), there is the reset button at the bottom of the screen, along with the "calibrate wheel", and "calibrate pedals". Also, changing the controller type from your current wheel to another one will cause this problem. For example, I switched from my wheel to the Xbox controller and when I went back I had this "huge clipping" issue.

Roger Prynne
12-06-2015, 13:14
Well everything is just as perfect as it was before so no probs here.

The reason why mine feels just like it did before the patch is probably because I didn't delete or change anything at all, I just DL the patch started the game and all was good.

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 13:20
So it's seeming like this issue is fairly widely reproducable by resetting controller settings. Can SMS confirm there's an issue here, and give some idea of when it can be fixed by? (Or let us know if there's a workaround?)

As this affects a completely freshly created profile, I would presume the issue could potentially be affecting *all* new customers who buy the game since the patch release.


Without a backup profile to go back to, it's left me with the only option being playing with limp, unresponsive FFB in the meantime, and I've got a league opening race coming up soon :-S

Edit: Ah, just noticed a new mini-patch downloaded. Fingers crossed, going to try it now...

3800racingfool
12-06-2015, 13:29
The reason why mine feels just like it did before the patch is probably because I didn't delete or change anything at all, I just DL the patch started the game and all was good.

At first I did the same as you. Downloaded the patch > Ran game > All is well (didn't notice any major FFB differences though). It wasn't until I reset the wheel in the options menu that things went haywire.

Using JackSpade's settings makes no difference so it would appear it's related to a global setting and not individual cars. (Although some cars may seem just fine according to modified settings that just happen to reduce the clipping.)

Just for the heck of it, anyone with a still working profile want to zip it up and send it to me? I've got some more experimenting to do but I need a working profile to do it with.

Paulo Ribeiro
12-06-2015, 13:29
As I opened Steam, download of 1.4 patch has began. However, after the D/L, it keeps validating in loop. I mean, validation is now running for the 5th time with around 6 minutes each.
Is this right? Everybody had this loop validation?

Cheers

BullWinkle
12-06-2015, 13:31
@grimdanfango
That small "mini-patch" was just to remove some files that accidentally got put in with the latest 1.4 patch.:)

@Paulo Ribeiro
Nope all normal here. Maybe try shutting down steam.,restarting it.

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 13:33
@grimdanfango
That small "mini-patch" was just to remove some files that accidentally got put in with the latest 1.4 patch.:)

Really? Bah, okay, guess it's back to waiting :-)

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 13:36
At first I did the same as you. Downloaded the patch > Ran game > All is well (didn't notice any major FFB differences though). It wasn't until I reset the wheel in the options menu that things went haywire.

Using JackSpade's settings makes no difference so it would appear it's related to a global setting and not individual cars. (Although some cars may seem just fine according to modified settings that just happen to reduce the clipping.)

Just for the heck of it, anyone with a still working profile want to zip it up and send it to me? I've got some more experimenting to do but I need a working profile to do it with.

Yeah, if anyone has a profile with a working pre-patch T300RS configuration, it'd be great if they didn't mind sharing it until this issue gets resolved.

3800racingfool
12-06-2015, 13:37
As I opened Steam, download of 1.4 patch has began. However, after the D/L, it keeps validating in loop. I mean, validation is now running for the 5th time with around 6 minutes each.
Is this right? Everybody had this loop validation?

Cheers

It never gave me anything about validation. Maybe your install is borked? (I've had steam do that on a couple of games previously.)

Roger Prynne
12-06-2015, 13:41
As I opened Steam, download of 1.4 patch has began. However, after the D/L, it keeps validating in loop. I mean, validation is now running for the 5th time with around 6 minutes each.
Is this right? Everybody had this loop validation?

Cheers

I had this last night and it took about 30 mins to install the files, then with this small update it took about 5 mins.... very strange and never happened before.

Wolkenwolf
12-06-2015, 13:44
Anyone here with a G25/G27, FFB reset and NO problems ?

Roger Prynne
12-06-2015, 13:44
At first I did the same as you. Downloaded the patch > Ran game > All is well (didn't notice any major FFB differences though). It wasn't until I reset the wheel in the options menu that things went haywire.

Using JackSpade's settings makes no difference so it would appear it's related to a global setting and not individual cars. (Although some cars may seem just fine according to modified settings that just happen to reduce the clipping.)

Just for the heck of it, anyone with a still working profile want to zip it up and send it to me? I've got some more experimenting to do but I need a working profile to do it with.

I don't think that's a good idea mate as everyone will have different settings let alone all their career progressions user names etc.
It could cause all sorts of other complications for you.

Paulo Ribeiro
12-06-2015, 13:47
I had this last night and it took about 30 mins to install the files, then with this small update it took about 5 mins.... very strange and never happened before.

It is now running the validation for the 10th time. I guess I will have to wait. Can't lauch game anyway, it doesn't allow.

EDIT: 'File corrupted' window showed. What should I do now?

Thanks for the help.

M0dMaSt3r
12-06-2015, 13:57
Patch 1.4, new profile, GT3 RS V2

The FFB feels too heavy, so many clipping and i canīt feel other effects. And the center spring is so massive.

Microcosmix
12-06-2015, 13:58
Wth guys, the FFB got way worse after the update.

Its mayor clipping, is there something wrong with the update?
Cuz i dont see any changes to global FFB setings from 1.3, I did reset the wheel and configured it anew.

Very dissapointed, has there been some mistake?

Cuba
12-06-2015, 14:00
Not sure if this helps, but I installed a brand new wheel I received yesterday (CSW V2). After setting up the wheel (drivers and Firmware), I opened up PCars and downloaded the patch. I installed Jack Spades Tweaker File (Bumps Plus). Ran a couple races; No clipping, and great FFB all around.

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 14:01
I don't think that's a good idea mate as everyone will have different settings let alone all their career progressions user names etc.
It could cause all sorts of other complications for you.

Hmm, I wondered about that. Figured our Steam username/identity is tied to our Steam login, not our pCars profile, and I would just delete someone else's offline career progression. I presume I'd still be able to change setting without triggering the FFB issue provided I avoid hitting the reset.

Not sure... I'd give it a try if anyone was willing to risk their pre-patch profile on it. It might just be that it refuses to load the profile if it was generated by a different user... wouldn't know until I tried.

yusupov
12-06-2015, 14:03
right, w/ the tweaker files its fine. but apparently default ffb gets messed up if you reset & use those settings.

meanwhile i uninstalled the ffb files but didnt reset & still have the same or very similar ffb; im not clear if thats a related issue or if i need to reset to get the heavy ffb everyones talking about. i assume its the latter.

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 14:04
Wth guys, the FFB got way worse after the update.

Its mayor clipping, is there something wrong with the update?
Cuz i dont see any changes to global FFB setings from 1.3, I did reset the wheel and configured it anew.

Very dissapointed, has there been some mistake?

Yeah, look back over this thread - it's seeming likely that there's an issue with the patch, but it only happens after you reset the wheel config back to defaults. If you have a backed up profile anywhere, roll back to it for now.

Jack Spade
12-06-2015, 14:05
To clarify FFB settings

Only the global wheel presets could be affected more or less. The car/tire physics and/or the resulting FFB calculations are untouched so the tweaker files/car setup menu are NOT
affected by the patch. Too much force now, lower Tire Force to compensate or if you use one the global FFB compression settings increase Soft Clip Full Output.

Roger Prynne
12-06-2015, 14:07
It is now running the validation for the 10th time. I guess I will have to wait. Can't lauch game anyway, it doesn't allow.

EDIT: 'File corrupted' window showed. What should I do now?

Thanks for the help.

Validate the files in steam.

207392

Microcosmix
12-06-2015, 14:11
Yeah, look back over this thread - it's seeming likely that there's an issue with the patch, but it only happens after you reset the wheel config back to defaults. If you have a backed up profile anywhere, roll back to it for now.

Ok, thats a shame. Il do some testing lowering the tire force and increasing soft clipping, hope that helps. I liked the Jacks files settings in 1.3 i hope i can get atleast that feeling back. I was looking forward to improvments.... but..

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 14:13
To clarify FFB settings

Only the global wheel presets could be affected more or less. The car/tire physics and/or the resulting FFB calculations are untouched so the tweaker files/car setup menu are NOT
affected by the patch. Too much force now, lower Tire Force to compensate or if you use one the global FFB compression settings increase Soft Clip Full Output.

Yeah, I realise it's not affecting the actual car-specific setups, it is just a global thing... but there's definitely a globally-wrong issue in effect now. On 100 Tire Force, I'm getting the same amount of overall FFB forces as before the patch, just with a MASSIVE centering-spring effect drowning them out. If I knock it back to Tire Force of 50, I get a massively reduced centering spring, but I also get massively reduced overall FFB forces, and the whole thing just feels limp and unresponsive... and *still* has some amount of uniform centering going on.

3800racingfool
12-06-2015, 14:15
Yeah, I realise it's not affecting the actual car-specific setups, it is just a global thing... but there's definitely a globally-wrong issue in effect now. On 100 Tire Force, I'm getting the same amount of overall FFB forces as before the patch, just with a MASSIVE centering-spring effect drowning them out. If I knock it back to Tire Force of 50, I get a massively reduced centering spring, but I also get massively reduced overall FFB forces, and the whole thing just feels limp and unresponsive... and *still* has some amount of uniform centering going on.

Have you turned your deadzone removal back to 0?

Paulo Ribeiro
12-06-2015, 14:22
Validate the files in steam.



Thank you Roger, I will try it when I back home later.

Cheers

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 14:24
Have you turned your deadzone removal back to 0?

Yep, was only running 0.02 before anyway, but I've certainly tried it with 0.0 too. The centering issue is just as big either way.

Flihp
12-06-2015, 14:33
i havent reset mine, all is good, but just as a side note, some Fanatec Porsche GT2 and GT3 users ( including myself) reported on several threads about this massive spring centering issue and it was found that maxing dead zone removal falloff fixed the issue considerably.

Phil

NEPALII
12-06-2015, 14:55
Same here. FFB way too heavy on center and as I accelerate the wheel goes crazy, it feels like an Earthquake happening. :) I tried my settings and default. With default I get rid of the crazy vibration (oscillation??) but it's still heavy and too strong.

My settings were higher than the default. By higher, I mean higher Adjust gain, adjust bleed, clamp, and I also had some soft clipping added in both output and input. The wheel still went crazy! On default, it doesn't go crazy but feels very heavy and when turning the yellow bar on the telemetry HUD is always at the top meaning it's clipping and there is too much FFB. It's oversaturated. Before, the yellow line would have waves and nearly reach the top, maximizing the FFB. I was able to achieve this after a long time tweaking. :D

I believe the idea was to increase center strength and I agree with that because even with my tweaks, there was still a bit of "dead" feeling around the center and even when turning. Now, it's just too much. Was this intentional or simply a bug?

Should I wait, or can I re-install pCars and does somebody have a fix? Sorry for the long post. :o

Microcosmix
12-06-2015, 15:09
Any word from the devs about the FFB problems some of us have?

My FFB with the CSR got totaly destroid, really bad.

Sankyo
12-06-2015, 15:10
My FFB with the CSR got totaly destroid, really bad.
A statement like that doesn't really help with trying to figure out what is wrong then and how to fix it. Please elaborate on "totaly destroid" and "really bad".

I saw some reports of the FFB being too heavy now. Try and reduce the tire force value (try 50%, maybe even lower) to see if that fixes your problem.

Microcosmix
12-06-2015, 15:20
A statement like that doesn't really help with trying to figure out what is wrong then and how to fix it. Please elaborate on "totaly destroid" and "really bad".

I saw some reports of the FFB being too heavy now. Try and reduce the tire force value (try 50%, maybe even lower) to see if that fixes your problem.

I did put a few lines in earlier, but il do it again.

Its way to heavy, clipping non stop. Also sometimes goes crazy starting to oscilate at stand still. but mostly its to strong so strong that no forces are beeing felt, total clipping.

TrevorAustin
12-06-2015, 15:26
Moved

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 15:28
A statement like that doesn't really help with trying to figure out what is wrong then and how to fix it. Please elaborate on "totaly destroid" and "really bad".

I saw some reports of the FFB being too heavy now. Try and reduce the tire force value (try 50%, maybe even lower) to see if that fixes your problem.

It might sound vague, but that's basically how it feels. We've gone over the specifics a few times already earlier in this thread. Reducing Tire Force is not the solution - all that achieves is the same centering force drowning out the tyre forces, but with everything reduced uniformly to the point where it no longer clips. So it doesn't constantly fight you as it does at Tire Force 100, but you also lose all the regular FFB details, and just end up with a washed out loose wheel.

This isn't a subtle "you might not have quite the right settings" issue... the FFB effect is best descibed as "totally destroyed", and it pretty much renders the cars un-drivable.

Microcosmix
12-06-2015, 15:40
Thanks for backing me up there Grimdanfango.

but yeah, even as low as tireforce 25 I still clipp alot, havnt tried lower, but something just feels way wrong and broken. I dont think setting tire force to 10 is intended from the devs.

Disposable_Hero
12-06-2015, 15:40
Massive clipping on G27/validated cache/fresh profile to the point that it would certainly destroy the wheel.
Even copying Jack Spades FFB Tweaker files did not help.
There is something seriously wrong.

Jack Spade
12-06-2015, 15:44
It might sound vague, but that's basically how it feels. We've gone over the specifics a few times already earlier in this thread. Reducing Tire Force is not the solution - all that achieves is the same centering force drowning out the tyre forces, but with everything reduced uniformly to the point where it no longer clips. So it doesn't constantly fight you as it does at Tire Force 100, but you also lose all the regular FFB details, and just end up with a washed out loose wheel.

This isn't a subtle "you might not have quite the right settings" issue... the FFB effect is best descibed as "totally destroyed", and it pretty much renders the cars un-drivable.

I donīt know if you use my tweaker files, anyway do this test. Select a car set SpindleMasterScale and SopScale at zero or the corresponding parameters on the setup menu, save the setting
and drive. The wheel should feel ultra light just now, if it doesnīt some spring or other effect is going on that spoils the party.

BMfan
12-06-2015, 15:53
I just want to make sure I know what you guy's are talking about,when you mention clipping,do you mean that the wheel will move vigorously left/right?

3800racingfool
12-06-2015, 15:57
I donīt know if you use my tweaker files, anyway do this test. Select a car set SpindleMasterScale and SopScale at zero or the corresponding parameters on the setup menu, save the setting
and drive. The wheel should feel ultra light just now, if it doesnīt some spring or other effect is going on that spoils the party.

Tried SpindleMasterScale last night and the wheel does indeed "free spin" (as in, no ffb at all). Did not try with the SopScale though.

SpindleMasterScale is just a multiplier for each individual vehicle though is it not? It would be just like setting the Tire Foce in the main menu.


I just want to make sure I know what you guy's are talking about,when you mention clipping,do you mean that the wheel will move vigorously left/right?

If it's doing it in a straight line then that's a centering spring issue. "Clipping" is where the FFB maxes out and the wheel just becomes "heavy". When your wheel is clipping you won't have much, if any, feedback from the road. The wheel will just feel dull and hard to turn. Both of these issues are happening to myself as well as many other users in this thread.

Roger Prynne
12-06-2015, 16:04
I just want to make sure I know what you guy's are talking about,when you mention clipping,do you mean that the wheel will move vigorously left/right?

No it means that the wheel is going above and beyond what it is capable of producing in FFB terms....
Think of a sound wave graph with nice rounded tops and bottoms, clipping will give you flat tops and bottoms of the curve, therefore clipping.
That's just trying to explain it in simple terms for you.

207428

Jack Spade
12-06-2015, 16:08
Tried SpindleMasterScale last night and the wheel does indeed "free spin" (as in, no ffb at all). Did not try with the SopScale though.

SpindleMasterScale is just a multiplier for each individual vehicle though is it not? It would be just like setting the Tire Foce in the main menu.



If it's doing it in a straight line then that's a centering spring issue. "Clipping" is where the FFB maxes out and the wheel just becomes "heavy". When your wheel is clipping you won't have much, if any, feedback from the road. The wheel will just feel dull and hard to turn. Both of these issues are happening to myself as well as many other users in this thread.

I use the Sop stuff in my tweaker files, but in your case it donīt seem to matter. That indicates no other force or spring or whatever active, right?
In other words lower Tire Force to whatever level, seems to me something went over the top with the patch.

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 16:12
I donīt know if you use my tweaker files, anyway do this test. Select a car set SpindleMasterScale and SopScale at zero or the corresponding parameters on the setup menu, save the setting
and drive. The wheel should feel ultra light just now, if it doesnīt some spring or other effect is going on that spoils the party.

Just tried that, and yes, it does indeed zero the feedback forces. So whatever's happening, it seems to indeed be being derived solely from the car physics.
I really can't tell what's going on at this point as I don't have a pre-patch setup to compare to.

Is the global Tire Force setting a straight multiplier on the values the same way Spindle Scale and Sop Scale are? (So, say, setting tire force 100, spindle 15, sop 15, would be the exact same thing as tire force 50, spindle 30, sop 30?)

Oddly, setting half the default spindle/sop scale seems to feel sort-of-okay again, but I really can't tell what it's like relative to what there was before.

At the very least, somewhere a setting has been internally multiplied... could REALLY do with some developer input on what exactly was and wasn't changed with regards to FFB in the patch.

BMfan
12-06-2015, 16:18
207431
This is what was happening to me with my DFGT.

Microcosmix
12-06-2015, 16:24
I got Okīish resluts lowering the tire force to 22" using jacks 1.6 bumps and brakerumble" and i mean okish, not good and definetly worse then before patch. Driving Oulton Park Frookie I used to feel the road bumps on straingts, now i can kind of sense them under there, but not as clear as before.

using higher Tire force then 22 results in clipping on corners. Before 1.4 i had tire force 100 and never clipped.

3800racingfool
12-06-2015, 16:25
[img]
This is what was happening to me with my DFGT.

That's hard clipping. You're probably also feeling centering spring (wheel shaking in a straight line) I assume?


I use the Sop stuff in my tweaker files, but in your case it donīt seem to matter. That indicates no other force or spring or whatever active, right?
In other words lower Tire Force to whatever level, seems to me something went over the top with the patch.

Correct. If I had taken my wheel apart and removed all the internals and slapped it back together it would feel the same way it did last night when I set the SpMsSc to 0.



Is the global Tire Force setting a straight multiplier on the values the same way Spindle Scale and Sop Scale are? (So, say, setting tire force 100, spindle 15, sop 15, would be the exact same thing as tire force 50, spindle 30, sop 30?)

Curious about this as well. I would assume it's like this but I'm unable to test it right now. Perhaps when I get home this evening I'll play around with it if someone doesn't answer before then.


Oddly, setting half the default spindle/sop scale seems to feel sort-of-okay again, but I really can't tell what it's like relative to what there was before.

I did the same thing last night. It's still dull feeling but it doesn't clip nearly as bad. At the defaults I was afraid I was going to destroy my wheel. :o


At the very least, somewhere a setting has been internally multiplied... could REALLY do with some developer input on what exactly was and wasn't changed with regards to FFB in the patch.

Well, Ian's posted in this thread so I'm going to assume that the devs know about it and are working on it.

Who knows though, maybe they're as lost as we are atm at what's causing the issue. Best thing to do right now is continue testing and providing feedback on the results of said tests.

Disposable_Hero
12-06-2015, 16:30
I use the Sop stuff in my tweaker files, but in your case it donīt seem to matter. That indicates no other force or spring or whatever active, right?
In other words lower Tire Force to whatever level, seems to me something went over the top with the patch.
I have massive clipping even with Tire Force at 50%, guess iīll wait until 1.5.
I don't want to kill my wheel.

Jack Spade
12-06-2015, 16:31
Just tried that, and yes, it does indeed zero the feedback forces. So whatever's happening, it seems to indeed be being derived solely from the car physics.
I really can't tell what's going on at this point as I don't have a pre-patch setup to compare to.

Is the global Tire Force setting a straight multiplier on the values the same way Spindle Scale and Sop Scale are? (So, say, setting tire force 100, spindle 15, sop 15, would be the exact same thing as tire force 50, spindle 30, sop 30?)

Oddly, setting half the default spindle/sop scale seems to feel sort-of-okay again, but I really can't tell what it's like relative to what there was before.

At the very least, somewhere a setting has been internally multiplied... could REALLY do with some developer input on what exactly was and wasn't changed with regards to FFB in the patch.


80 TF + 20 Scale = 100 force, 20 TF + 80 scale = 100 force ...same result.

Keep it simple and lower TF till it feels okay....even if itīs on 10

BMfan
12-06-2015, 16:34
That's hard clipping. You're probably also feeling centering spring (wheel shaking in a straight line) I assume?

Yeah,even while parked,the only thing that seems to remove the wheel shaking in a straight line was to set the Dead Zone Removal to 0.10,anything above 0.35(not sure about under that,was 0,35 when i started the game after update) and my wheel tries to break my hand.

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 16:40
80 TF + 20 Scale = 100 force, 20 TF + 80 scale = 100 force ...same result.

Keep it simple and lower TF till it feels okay....even if itīs on 10

Huh, so it's just an addition? So TF 0 will still give forces provided Spindle Scale is non-zero? Why would leaving TF on 100 and zeroing spindle scale cause the entire forces to zero out if it works this way?

Silvio Camolesi
12-06-2015, 16:40
Don't be rude.

;) Sorry, you know that I love you


So, I lost my my profile, I didn't know that it was saved another place.

Any chance to have it in the cloud on the future?

Jack Spade
12-06-2015, 16:46
Huh, so it's just an addition? So TF 0 will still give forces provided Spindle Scale is non-zero? Why would leaving TF on 100 and zeroing spindle scale cause the entire forces to zero out if it works this way?

Itīs a simplified model of course, 0 TF = no force

LordDRIFT
12-06-2015, 17:04
Does this issue affect ps4 as well?

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 17:05
Itīs a simplified model of course, 0 TF = no force

Wouldn't a simplified model be that it's just a straight multiple then?

Surely setting TF 100, scale 30 would yield a relative overall force of 30%, where setting TF 100, scale 60 would yield double the amount of force - 60%.

As an addition, TF 100, scale 30 would give 130%, and TF 100, scale 60 would give 160%.

Or it it actually neither of those? An addition just doesn't make sense, even in simple terms, if zeroing either factor zeros the entire equation.

ex_
12-06-2015, 17:19
80 TF + 20 Scale = 100 force, 20 TF + 80 scale = 100 force ...same result.

Keep it simple and lower TF till it feels okay....even if itīs on 10

this is not consistent with the update notes, that the default parameters should feel better for all wheels. So to fix the fix, we should be changing settings more drastically than before?

(not saying it's your fault, but they are not making this easier for any of us)

yopp90
12-06-2015, 17:52
My game will not update

Jack Spade
12-06-2015, 17:56
this is not consistent with the update notes, that the default parameters should feel better for all wheels. So to fix the fix, we should be changing settings more drastically than before?

(not saying it's your fault, but they are not making this easier for any of us)

Actually I donīt know what exactly was changed for this or that wheel but reading the reports suggesting probably something went over the top or a typo, reduce Tire Force
to whatever level till it feels okay for you.

MikeJenkins
12-06-2015, 18:02
Hope you don't mind a new member joining in.
I have a G27 and even with tire force at 25 it feels like there's a strong centering force at work. I've also tried lowering master spindle, but if that goes too low the wheel feels 'light and floaty'.

[edit] should add that centering spring is unticked and centering strength at 0% in Logitech Profiler.

ACSoft
12-06-2015, 18:16
This is my solution to this problem, almost for my G25:

General Force Feedback: 90

Now in Calibrate Force Feedback:
Tire Force: 100
Dead zone removal range: 0.08
Scoop Knee: 0.50
And finally the two "magical new setup"
Soft Clipping (half input): 5.00
Soft Clipping (full output): 5.00

All parameters not mentionned remain with the default value.

What is strange with this problem is that, if you use full default settings (after a reset), any cars are totally undrivable !!! The FFB signal is totally over-amplified which result in terribly strong shakings of the wheel and massive clipping. This lead me to believe, their is something wrong about FFB in this new patch 1.4. I hope SMS will investigate this and feedback.

Soft Clipping setups act exactly like it should be, by removing the over- amplification. If you try to do the same by reducing the tire force, you can also kill the over-amplification, but to my taste, it result in a much more "flat" result with less sensations.

Hope this might help

TrevorAustin
12-06-2015, 18:20
Mods, I've started a separate thread which seems identical, if there's anything worth merging or just close it.

I didn't reset but I swapped wheels, now straight ahead I have what feels like massive wheel imbalance, I'd be off to kwikfit in a panic if it was my car, either missing wheel nuts or hug wheel imbalance, I do think it's centering spring related.

Not sure if other forces are wrong though, kerbs and bumps seem OK, as long as the wheel is not pointing straight, couple of degrees of rotation either side and all feels OK, different cars change the effect, so formula C oK, abd almost bearable, Formula A and things fall off my keyboard tray and actually feels like it's doing damage, although I doubt it really is.

poirqc
12-06-2015, 18:25
This is my solution to this problem, almost for my G25:
If you try to do the same by reducing the tire force, you can also kill the over-amplification, but to my taste, it result in a much more "flat" result with less sensations.
Hope this might help

I'm right with you on that, because settings are just numbers. I couldn't care less about those, as long as i can get a decent FFB back.

I'll try that when i get home.

SpeedLimitUnknown
12-06-2015, 18:28
So the FFB is basically broken on default settings with the 1.4 patch?. :miserable:

thepharcyde
12-06-2015, 18:37
thankfully i have a backup prior to this update. restoring now.

DyndaS
12-06-2015, 18:37
Do you have any "solution" for DFGT?

ACSoft
12-06-2015, 18:38
So the FFB is basically broken on default settings with the 1.4 patch?. :miserable:I think yes, unfortunately.

MikeJenkins
12-06-2015, 18:39
This is my solution to this problem, almost for my G25:

General Force Feedback: 90

Now in Calibrate Force Feedback:
Tire Force: 100
Dead zone removal range: 0.08
Scoop Knee: 0.50
And finally the two "magical new setup"
Soft Clipping (half input): 5.00
Soft Clipping (full output): 5.00
Hope this might help

Just tried these with my G27 (but adjust deadzone to 0.16 for my wheel) and they are feeling good. Probably the best yet since 1.4.

JeyD02
12-06-2015, 18:40
Just tried these with my G27 (but adjust deadzone to 0.16 for my wheel) and they are feeling good. Probably the best yet since 1.4.

intead since you are using g27 you should put dead zone removal range to .18

ACSoft
12-06-2015, 18:44
Do you have any "solution" for DFGT?Try my solution, act on the 2 "Soft Clipping" parameters in the "Calibrate Force Feedback". By setting them to 5.00 should counter the over-amplification of FFB 1.4.

TrevorAustin
12-06-2015, 18:47
anybody else got a massive deadzone along with this, if I try and reduce it I get the awful vibration., can't work out if its my new wheel or the patch

poirqc
12-06-2015, 18:47
intead since you are using g27 you should put dead zone removal range to .18

My G27 is new. After doing lots of minimum force tests, it average around 16% more than 18%. The wear of the wheel must play a role. Doing the samples yourself is always a good thing.

MikeJenkins
12-06-2015, 18:51
intead since you are using g27 you should put dead zone removal range to .18

You put it according to minforce test with wheelcheck. There is some variance for different G27 wheels (about 0.15 to 0.18). Mine is 0.16.
See Deadzone Removal Range in this post (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22122-G25-G27-SETUP-GUIDE).

Disposable_Hero
12-06-2015, 18:53
I think it's time for an official acknowledgement with so many people affected?

digix
12-06-2015, 19:09
Before the patch the FFB was ok and now it's crap.

Wolkenwolf
12-06-2015, 19:18
I think it's time for an official acknowledgement with so many people affected?

Would like that too. Is that problem recognized and someone looking into it ? Before i spend hours of tweaking again would be nice

Paulo Ribeiro
12-06-2015, 19:25
Validate the files in steam.

207392

I did it.
This is what I've got: 'All files were validated with success'
Steam keeps validating in loop. 6 minutes after 6 minutes. Don't stop. What is wrong? Never had any issue before.
Help please. :hypnotysed:

NEPALII
12-06-2015, 19:27
Managed to get rid of the insane rattling but wheel is too heavy to turn. I'm feeling more effects but still nowhere near as good as it was before. It's heavier, more clipping and less effects. It's not horrible, just a little bad. Worse than before.

Does the general rule of using FFB strength 100 still apply? How about Tire Force? 100 as well? Either way, I would appreciate an official acknowledgement. Something is off here and we would all like to know what exactly changed. If nothing is broken, then some new settings are required, can SMS at least let us know what? Just give us back the old FFB and tweak just a little the centering, give it a bit more strength and the FFB will be perfect. That was the only issue with the FFB prior to 1.4, now it's been exaggerated.

On the other hand, game is running smoother with shadows and details on Medium as it was reported on the changelog. This patch was 2 steps forward, 1 step back. It's good, just wish the FFB was like before with a slight improvement. Not pissed off at SMS, I'm sure the problem will be rectified. :)

LemonVTS
12-06-2015, 19:33
It seems like this patch fucked over all my settings...
FFB feels rubbish, idk what you guys did but it was perfect for me pre-patch..

LordDRIFT
12-06-2015, 19:49
Does any one have link to a guide regarding the FFB setting in plain English. The UI is two vague and all the guides I've found go into a math lesson.

arveena
12-06-2015, 19:55
G27 here.
Everything was fine before the patch. Now its way to heavy and feels off. Imho its so bad this needs to be adressed in a hotfix. Everything default before and after the patch.
Any ideas how this could happen. I dont think this is intended. Maybe a few numbers are off but for me its unplayable at the moment but only in some cars. Others are better but in general its worse

Disposable_Hero
12-06-2015, 20:03
I hope for a patch for the patch too;)

poirqc
12-06-2015, 20:06
Does any one have link to a guide regarding the FFB setting in plain English. The UI is two vague and all the guides I've found go into a math lesson.

Forum Post (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files&p=958100&viewfull=1#post958100)
PDF (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29907-Force-Feedback-Guide-for-Project-CARS)

Edit - Link

sinjun
12-06-2015, 20:29
Everyone remain calm.

If there's one thing that's certain, its that the SMS team is aware of the problem, they read these posts. The worst thing you can do is start getting all panicy and flying off the handle.

The only thing that's guaranteed to do is draw a comment from Ian and not in a good way.

If you have an issue describe the problem in a calm detailed post and then sit back and wait for the fix. Go watch the awesome new trailer over and over again to kill the time.

Del-Dredd
12-06-2015, 20:34
A statement like that doesn't really help with trying to figure out what is wrong then and how to fix it. Please elaborate on "totaly destroid" and "really bad".

I saw some reports of the FFB being too heavy now. Try and reduce the tire force value (try 50%, maybe even lower) to see if that fixes your problem.

People have already tried that "lowering Tyre force" all it does is make the FFB limp, that has been stated at least 3 times.

ermo
12-06-2015, 20:39
Hey,

I just tried patch 1.4. I deleted my profile and graphicsconfig.xml and then started up the game. To my surprise, the FFB was much, much heavier than it used to be (BMW 1M Coupe on Azure Circuit in Free Practice) , even at FFB=100, TF=80, DRR=0.15 which I use as my default G27 setting.

However, seeing as I've encountered 'factor-of-ten' bugs with the FFB during WMD testing, I lowered my TF from 80 to 8. And lo and behold, the FFB is back to normal, which suggests that a typo bug in the default TF (or Spindle Master Scale) values has crept in?

Disposable_Hero
12-06-2015, 20:41
People have already tried that "lowering Tyre force" all it does is make the FFB limp, that has been stated at least 3 times.
Indeed, if my wheel is clipping/rattling like madness with half the tire force from the physics engine (TF=50%) then there must be something seriously wrong.
I don't even dare to fire up the game again and make a screenshot of the FFB meter showing the actual clipping.
Could somebody with a G27 try default FFB on the BMW V12 LMR and see if itīs the same?

unknwn
12-06-2015, 20:58
With old profile everything seems fine. With new profile you have to set TR less than 50% to avoid clipping, but the center becomes limp and other effects become barely apparent. Which suggests that something else than just global tire force multiplier is wrong.

ACSoft
12-06-2015, 21:01
People have already tried that "lowering Tyre force" all it does is make the FFB limp, that has been stated at least 3 times.Please try my solution here:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?30820-Patch-1-4-FFB-reports&p=986081&viewfull=1#post986081

Acting on both "Soft Clipping" setups allow to cancel the over-amplification of FBB in 1.4, without to make FFB limp.

ermo
12-06-2015, 21:05
Indeed, if my wheel is clipping/rattling like madness with half the tire force from the physics engine (TF=50%) then there must be something seriously wrong.
I don't even dare to fire up the game again and make a screenshot of the FFB meter showing the actual clipping.
Could somebody with a G27 try default FFB on the BMW V12 LMR and see if itīs the same?

Try 10% TF on one of the problematic cars? It'd be nice to confirm whether this is in fact a 'factor-of-ten' typo bug with the default tweaker?

NEPALII
12-06-2015, 21:10
Increasing soft clipping to around 5.00 and lowering tyre force to half (50) has helped but it's a "numb" FFB. I'm as quick (or slow :p) as before but it doesn't feel as good. Also lowering deadzone removal range to 0.00 helped but this takes away the purpose of the fix for the FFB which is to correct centering spring issues.

It's a new weird FFB. The problems reported can be solved with some weird tweaking but this shouldn't be necessary. Everything I learned about the FFB and all the settings I have saved are pretty much useless now. I don't know if this was SMS' intention but if it was, it's a bad move, in my opinion. If it's a bug, then please solve it ASAP.

Roger Prynne
12-06-2015, 21:12
Yeah it's got to be some sort of typo I would imagine.... thank god I didn't delete my profile.
Strange how it didn't come up in testing.... probably because profiles were not deleted maybe.

Bruno Alexandre
12-06-2015, 21:13
Hey,

I just tried patch 1.4. I deleted my profile and graphicsconfig.xml and then started up the game. To my surprise, the FFB was much, much heavier than it used to be (BMW 1M Coupe on Azure Circuit in Free Practice) , even at FFB=100, TF=80, DRR=0.15 which I use as my default G27 setting.

However, seeing as I've encountered 'factor-of-ten' bugs with the FFB during WMD testing, I lowered my TF from 80 to 8. And lo and behold, the FFB is back to normal, which suggests that a typo bug in the default TF (or Spindle Master Scale) values has crept in?

You might be onto something, we're investigating this. Sorry for the trouble caused.

FuriousDemon
12-06-2015, 21:29
To me, deleting the profile, then recalibrating the wheel fixed the problem.
I still have 100 tire force. So I'm not so sure it's that. Unless, by deleting the profile it somehow fixes that. Very weird bug.

grimdanfango
12-06-2015, 21:29
You might be onto something, we're investigating this. Sorry for the trouble caused.

Ah splendid. Thanks for the confirmation! (-that we're not going collectively mad imagining things :))

unknwn
12-06-2015, 21:33
Hey,

I just tried patch 1.4. I deleted my profile and graphicsconfig.xml and then started up the game. To my surprise, the FFB was much, much heavier than it used to be (BMW 1M Coupe on Azure Circuit in Free Practice) , even at FFB=100, TF=80, DRR=0.15 which I use as my default G27 setting.

However, seeing as I've encountered 'factor-of-ten' bugs with the FFB during WMD testing, I lowered my TF from 80 to 8. And lo and behold, the FFB is back to normal, which suggests that a typo bug in the default TF (or Spindle Master Scale) values has crept in?
Weird. Setting TF to 8 or similar low value makes the FFB force almost non existent. Definitely doesn't fix it for me.

klhnikov
12-06-2015, 21:34
On T500RS, Hard Clipping as well, lowered Tire Forces to 25 and increased the Thrustmaster Pannel FFb level to 100 ( instead of 65 before, 60 by def...)

Feel good now !

I'm lokking for a good setting of my deadzone and need to know, Are the two settings (range and falloff) multiplicated or substracted ?

ermo
12-06-2015, 21:36
Weird. Setting TF to 8 or similar low value makes the FFB force almost non existent. Definitely doesn't fix it for me.

Sure, it might not be a factor-of-ten bug, but it's probably still worth it to eliminate default tweaker typo issues as the cause before digging deeper. :)

TrevorAustin
12-06-2015, 21:44
On T500RS, Hard Clipping as well, lowered Tire Forces to 25 and increased the Thrustmaster Pannel FFb level to 100 ( instead of 65 before, 60 by def...)

Feel good now !

I'm lokking for a good setting of my deadzone and need to know, Are the two settings (range and falloff) multiplicated or substracted ?

I've also got a bad deadzone issue. Think it's the wheel not the patch though.

NEPALII
12-06-2015, 21:49
Just to be clear, I did a clean install. Everything deleted, new profile and everything. There is a bug somewhere and I just managed to somewhat work around it. Surprised that the team didn't catch this.

morning_wood
12-06-2015, 22:06
it is profile dependent.

with a clean profile:
if you set all forces to 0 per/car (and disable all springs in Tweaker) there is a full center spring (on my Momo)

this just went from a fun game, to a bad arcade racer :(


i dont want springs!

Del-Dredd
12-06-2015, 22:15
Have just tried mine, Normal G25 settings 900 degrees 100% force in Windows controller settings, all others at 0. No tweaked files etc used in game, only thing twiddled on release day was Force up to 90 from the old default which was way to low and gave very weak feedback..

Just ran game and FFB is good as before, not going to risk resetting Control settings in game of deleting profile as that is what seems to screw it all up, from previous posts.
Something is just weird if clicking on reset messes up the FFB.

Disposable_Hero
12-06-2015, 22:26
I deleted all FFB Tweaker files, pressed "reset" in controls menu, set my dead-zone to 0.18 and Tire Force to 10.
That felt about right and showed no clipping in FFB meter (tested BMW V12 LMR, Le Mans), so i consider this the official workaround for now.
Really seems to be factor 10.
Big thanks to Bruno and Ermo for saving the Le Mans 24hhttp://forum.wmdportal.com/images/smilies/smile.png

ermo
12-06-2015, 22:29
You might be onto something, we're investigating this. Sorry for the trouble caused.

Just to confirm:

I also tried driving on Brands Hatch GP in Free Practice with a variety of cars (BMW 1M Coupe, BMW M3 E30, BMW M1 Procar, BMW M3 GT, Alpine LMP2, Formula B, Lotus 78). All felt good with TF=8 if that matters any. I then tried recalibrating the FFB but it appeared to make no difference.

So whatever is happening, my hypothesis that there is some sort of typo resulting in a factor n multiplication going on somewhere in the FFB pipeline (where n=10 is plausible if a decimal dot is moved one place to the right) seems to be holding so far.

I hope you don't get to pull your hair out chasing this one Bruno. Kudos for answering at this time of day -- that's dedication guys! :triumphant:

ermo
12-06-2015, 22:45
@Bruno:

Possible UI bug when calibrating FFB: In Controls -> Calibrate Force Feedback -> When highlighting the Deadzone Removal Range slider, I can a) use the arrow keys on my keyboard to move the slider (with a resolution of 5 steps for each tap), b) use the mouse to drag the slider (with a resolution of 1 step) but the left and right arrow buttons in the UI do not move the slider when I click on them? Is this the intended behaviour?

TrevorAustin
12-06-2015, 22:56
@Bruno:

Possible UI bug when calibrating FFB: In Controls -> Calibrate Force Feedback -> When highlighting the Deadzone Removal Range slider, I can a) use the arrow keys on my keyboard to move the slider (with a resolution of 5 steps for each tap), b) use the mouse to drag the slider (with a resolution of 1 step) but the left and right arrow buttons in the UI do not move the slider when I click on them? Is this the intended behaviour?

The left and right sliders have never done anything in car setup for me, pre or post patch.

Roger Prynne
12-06-2015, 22:58
Been like that forever.... just another little thing that will be fixed at some stage.

Flihp
13-06-2015, 00:21
Can I ask this silly question then.... If only those that have reset controller or deleted previous profile experience this issue, does it mean in order to experience the ffb changes from this update, one should reset controller. I am asking because if this (error) only affects those that have reset controllers, obviously the update is not over writing that particular previous setting, so should we be concerned that other intended changes are not taking place?

Personally I can't feel any changes in ffb having kept current profile.

Thanks
Phil

poirqc
13-06-2015, 02:09
I tried both ACsoft and Ermo method.

I think i settled with Ermo method and went with 10 Tire Force. The rest of the settings are standards from the G25/27 guide, and Jacks files(66% SOP). I did change the per wheel movement to -0.04 and 0.02 squared. The smoothing is at 0.03. I choosed the D setup in Jack's first post.

Here's the telemetry i got.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnHjCKRW5JU&feature=youtu.be

Any tought?

Thanks

Vit7
13-06-2015, 05:33
Any word from the devs about the FFB problems some of us have?

not even some of us... almost everyone

Andrew_WOT
13-06-2015, 06:04
not even some of us... almost everyone

Everyone who reset controller settings so new defaults kick in.

morning_wood
13-06-2015, 06:19
centering spring is being forced on. tweaker setting does not overide

digix
13-06-2015, 06:50
Controls – All platforms
* Fixed an issue that causes the wheel centring spring to be active during driving.
* Improved force feedback strength and tweaked the default force feedback parameters for all supported wheels based on community feedback.
* Further enhancements to the steering feeling – Improved blending between the tyre force spring and the steering lock spring.
* Improved behaviour of the wheel force springs while navigating the menu system.

To the Dev's please reset these settings to the settings before the patch. I think this will solve the most problems.

animalz
13-06-2015, 07:44
I have a G27
Currently Set TF to 40
Relative Adjust Gain 100, Bleed .10, Clamp .03
Half and full clipping 0
In car master settings at 26
Body Stiffness 0. Any other setting I get centre spring and other crazy effects.
Rest of settings are standard. Far from perfect and like a lot of you, still adjusting all settings...

fabioprince
13-06-2015, 08:10
hi, does anybody check the gear shift problem with some car with manual trasmission?
try to use the bmw e30 or mercedes 190 e, you can change with H shifter without press the clutch and you can change with the pad like a semiautomatic cars....
on bmw 1 series its ok if you dont' press che clutch the gear go to N and the pad doesn't' works but with e30 -190e- ford sierra cosworth - lancers and some other cars you can change in any mode do you want.... i hate this bug!

M0dMaSt3r
13-06-2015, 08:24
hi, does anybody check the gear shift problem with some car with manual trasmission?
try to use the bmw e30 or mercedes 190 e, you can change with H shifter without press the clutch and you can change with the pad like a semiautomatic cars....
on bmw 1 series its ok if you dont' press che clutch the gear go to N and the pad doesn't' works but with e30 -190e- ford sierra cosworth - lancers and some other cars you can change in any mode do you want.... i hate this bug!

Wrong thread. That the "Patch 1.4 FFB reports" thread. Not about manual transmission !

fabioprince
13-06-2015, 08:30
Wrong thread. That the "Patch 1.4 FFB reports" thread. Not about manual transmission ! i'm sorry

Jack Spade
13-06-2015, 08:30
Sure, it might not be a factor-of-ten bug, but it's probably still worth it to eliminate default tweaker typo issues as the cause before digging deeper. :)

What tweaker issue are you talking about? I can assure you and everybody else the tweaker files setting are NOT affected by the patch. For me everything is the same as it was
before the patch no center spring or other unwanted force. Iīm still at 100 Tire Force previous or new game profile that tells me the CSW v2 global wheel preset stuff remained
untouched at least.

Wolkenwolf
13-06-2015, 08:45
soft clipping = 5.0 is doing the trick for me. Center brick is gone, no clipping anymore, TF and FFB 100, anything default, new profile.
With 10 TF its only light.
In german its "weiche beschneidung" - dont like that ;)

THX to Acsoft!

thepharcyde
13-06-2015, 08:58
I restored my PC to prior this update and redownloaded 1.4. FFB has sorted itself out.

JAJP999
13-06-2015, 09:00
Fanatec GT3 v2 and with a new profile FFB is very heavy and far too strong - went back to my old profile and all is good

Disposable_Hero
13-06-2015, 10:22
Can a moderator please add this thread to the list of known issues (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22315-Known-Issues-Collective-Thread-(PC)-Not-for-bug-reporting!-Updated-08-06&p=886418&viewfull=1#post886418)?
Also, the workaround with tire force at 10% should be mentioned.
Thanks.

TrevorAustin
13-06-2015, 10:24
I restored my PC to prior this update and redownloaded 1.4. FFB has sorted itself out.

Have you then reset your wheel profile?

Silvio Camolesi
13-06-2015, 10:41
If we could adjust FFB without leaving the session...

TrevorAustin
13-06-2015, 11:17
Bit more info with my T500.

The problem is definitely worse with T500 than TX.

If I use deadzone removal fall off to 0 I get hard wheel lock right in the pits, goes as I drive out, any other setting of that and no problem.

Setting soft clipping to 5.0 reduces my wheel imbalance effect in straight ahead, but still very much there. Reducing the deadzone removal almost gets rid of it to the detriment of then having a deadzone. My wheel tests at 5% in wheelcheck, but I'm having to use 0.03 removal and 0.2 fall off to avoid terrible shaking at straight ahead.

ermo
13-06-2015, 13:27
What tweaker issue are you talking about? I can assure you and everybody else the tweaker files setting are NOT affected by the patch. For me everything is the same as it was
before the patch no center spring or other unwanted force. Iīm still at 100 Tire Force previous or new game profile that tells me the CSW v2 global wheel preset stuff remained
untouched at least.

I'm talking about the default built-in tweakers; i.e. the files that are in effect if you don't manually add any .xml tweaker files.

So if there is a typo bug in the built-in tweakers (or, alternatively, if the UI multiplies the TF by 10 by accident), and you override the built-in tweakers, it makes sense that you'd see the intended wheel strength? :)

EDIT: Removed test suggestions -- I need to re-read the FFB guide.

walken
13-06-2015, 15:19
If we could adjust FFB without leaving the session...

and car setups, just in practice if not in tt too....

grimdanfango
13-06-2015, 15:30
Well, it may be temporary if this is up for getting fixed, but I played around with settings and managed to come up with a variant of my pre-patch T300RS config that seemed to work well and felt as responsive as I *think* it did before.

The changes I made were:
Tire Force set to 25... where it used to be 100
Soft Clipping set to Half Input 1.0 Full Input 1.5... where before it was 1.0 and 2.0 respectively
Increased Thrustmaster overall Strength value to 100%... where before it was set to 80%

Other settings I left the same as before:
Wheel Position Smoothing 0.0
Deadzone Removal Range 0.02
Deadzone Removal Falloff 0.01
Relative Adjust Gain 1.3
Relative Adjust Bleed 0.15
Relative Adjust Clamp 1.15
Scoop Knee/Reduction 0.0

Plus Jack Spade's tweaker files of course :-) (Started using #5 brake rumble pack now, seems good)

Overall, that seems to have minimised any feeling of unnaturally strong centering, and has returned the crisp, snappy responsiveness I had before.

ermo
13-06-2015, 15:53
Well, it may be temporary if this is up for getting fixed, but I played around with settings and managed to come up with a variant of my pre-patch T300RS config that seemed to work well and felt as responsive as I *think* it did before.

The changes I made were:
Tire Force set to 25... where it used to be 100
Soft Clipping set to Half Input 1.0 Full Input 1.5... where before it was 1.0 and 2.0 respectively
Increased Thrustmaster overall Strength value to 100%... where before it was set to 80%

Other settings I left the same as before:
Wheel Position Smoothing 0.0
Deadzone Removal Range 0.02
Deadzone Removal Falloff 0.01
Relative Adjust Gain 1.3
Relative Adjust Bleed 0.15
Relative Adjust Clamp 1.15
Scoop Knee/Reduction 0.0

Plus Jack Spade's tweaker files of course :-) (Started using #5 brake rumble pack now, seems good)

Overall, that seems to have minimised any feeling of unnaturally strong centering, and has returned the crisp, snappy responsiveness I had before.

Out of curiosity, what happens if you set the TF to 10 and disable the soft clipping stuff? Do you get roughly the same FFB as before 1.4 (where you used TF 100)?

imJGott
13-06-2015, 16:01
once i select an online lobby, vehicle and then join the session the game just sits in a loop of loading. i can let 2 min pass and it still at the loading screen. this wasnt the case days ago where this problem didnt exist. not sure what happen in the update but i cant race online with friends and or randoms. please help, i have some events i have to join this weekend

also when i load the game i get a "Steam warning" about the game not being saved in the cloud. this needs to be fixed as well

Andrew_WOT
13-06-2015, 16:26
What tweaker issue are you talking about? I can assure you and everybody else the tweaker files setting are NOT affected by the patch. For me everything is the same as it was
before the patch no center spring or other unwanted force. Iīm still at 100 Tire Force previous or new game profile that tells me the CSW v2 global wheel preset stuff remained
untouched at least.

Jack, but did you RESET controller settings, as CSW v2 owners reported same issue as everyone else?

Jack Spade
13-06-2015, 16:35
Jack, but did you RESET controller settings, as CSW v2 owners reported same issue as everyone else?

Yes I did, more than once cause I was fiddling with the bloody Half Input parameter which still is buggy and wonīt reset back to zero.

Vit7
13-06-2015, 18:36
Everyone who reset controller settings so new defaults kick in.

Everyone who reset controller settings, everyone who reinstall game, every new costumer who get game after 1.4....

ermo
13-06-2015, 18:56
Everyone who reset controller settings, everyone who reinstall game, every new costumer who get game after 1.4.... Not sure what else people who responsible for FFB have to do to proof their complete professional unfitness. They dragging whole company down.

With respect, that's bullshit. This is likely a simple typo somewhere. It could happen to anybody.

TrevorAustin
13-06-2015, 19:10
Everyone who reset controller settings, everyone who reinstall game, every new costumer who get game after 1.4.... Not sure what else people who responsible for FFB have to do to proof their complete professional unfitness. They dragging whole company down.

No you're bringing the consumer level down again. Must be nice to have never made a mistake at work.

N0body Of The Goat
13-06-2015, 19:12
Using tips from this thread, my own fix for my wheel in FFB Calibration options are, having created a fresh pCARS profile...

Tire Force 20-22 (pre-patch 1.4 I used 95)
Both soft clip options 0.370 (pre-patch 1.4 I used default)

------------------------

Before this patch, I was using Deadzone Removal Fallout at 50% of the scale, after some suggested 100% right gave them better FFB. On a fresh 1.4 patch profile, moving the slider right makes the FFB weaker.

I'm still using 0.06-0.07 Deadzone Removal Zone, based on Wheelcheck 1.72 suggesting 0.065 after running the "min force" test.

Vit7
13-06-2015, 19:40
With respect, that's bullshit. This is likely a simple typo somewhere. It could happen to anybody.

typo by itself mean nothing. But in our case this "typo" just logical continuation for what FFB team did for last year. "hey, this our cool 50+ sliders with meaningful numbers. We have no idea what this numbers mean, what they do and how they affect game. Maybe YOU will figure out" Really ? What about pushing hot-fix or revert back FFB changes when they find out last update completely break game for most existing and specially 100% new users ? They push new build almost every day for WMD members . Do they forget how to do it ?

Sorry for my English guys.

ermo
13-06-2015, 19:46
typo by itself mean nothing. But in our case this "typo" just logical continuation for what FFB team did for last year. "hey, this our cool 50+ sliders with meaningful numbers. We have no idea what this numbers mean, what they do and how they affect game. Maybe YOU will figure out" Really ? What about pushing hot-fix or revert back FFB changes when they find out last update completely break game for most existing and specially 100% new users ? They push new build almost every day for WMD members . Do they forget how to do it ?

Sorry for my English guys.

That's a pretty clueless comment, I'm afraid. Do better.

EDIT: The comment is clueless because the guy who wrote the FFB subsystem also wrote an excellent FFB guide that details how the system works and how to tweak it. You can find the FFB guide here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29907-Force-Feedback-Guide-for-Project-CARS).

Jan Studenski
13-06-2015, 19:53
Okay for me it was all fixed after deleting profile:

I think its better, but its hard to tell as i have never driven a GT3 in Reallife

But Negative: The wheel is now way too heavy ... i dont wanna lower all effects , just the wheel weight

Where can i do this?

Greez

Roger Prynne
13-06-2015, 19:56
^^^ Try turning down the TF in the controller menu (bottom right button on first screen) or the Spindle Master Scale in the FFB menu in car setup.

ermo
13-06-2015, 20:04
Okay for me it was all fixed after deleting profile:

I think its better, but its hard to tell as i have never driven a GT3 in Reallife

But Negative: The wheel is now way too heavy ... i dont wanna lower all effects , just the wheel weight

Where can i do this?

Greez

As Roger says, try lowering your Tire Force to 10% of the value you usually use (100 -> 10 or 80 -> 8 for instance). The current thinking (not yet confirmed by SMS!) is that a bug/typo might have crept into the FFB pipeline somewhere. :)

TrevorAustin
13-06-2015, 20:06
As Roger says, try lowering your Tire Force to 10% of the value you usually use (100 -> 10 or 80 -> 8 for instance). The current thinking is that a bug/typo might have crept into the FFB pipeline somewhere. :)

That didn't work for me, tried it but no good, had to have the tire force and increase the soft clipping.

ermo
13-06-2015, 20:15
That didn't work for me, tried it but no good, had to have the tire force and increase the soft clipping.

Hm. So are you saying that there is no TF value which works for you across a range of cars on the same track on your TX wheel? You might need to do a binary search to find a TF value that works (100 (too strong) -> 50 (still too strong) -> 25 (still too strong) -> 12 (too weak) -> 18 (in the ballpark) -> etc.)

The reason I ask is that I'm really curious about this, given the fact that the 'weaker' wheels (like my G27) appear to be very sensitive to the magnitude of forces due to their limited dynamic range.

TrevorAustin
13-06-2015, 20:34
Hm. So are you saying that there is no TF value which works for you across a range of cars on the same track on your TX wheel? You might need to do a binary search to find a TF value that works (100 (too strong) -> 50 (still too strong) -> 25 (still too strong) -> 12 (too weak) -> 18 (in the ballpark) -> etc.)

The reason I ask is that I'm really curious about this, given the fact that the 'weaker' wheels (like my G27) appear to be very sensitive to the magnitude of forces due to their limited dynamic range.

Sorry, it's a t500 now, nees to update, and i meant to put halve, i.e. 55% from 100, but also maybe 5* increase on soft clipping. The factor of 10, ie reducing to 10 and no other changes felt awful.

50 tf feela ok, but no ffb at all straight ahead wihout using deadzome renoval, and a 0.01 increase of that induces massive wheel shake.

Del-Dredd
13-06-2015, 20:40
That's a pretty clueless comment, I'm afraid. Do better.

EDIT: The comment is clueless because the guy who wrote the FFB subsystem also wrote an excellent FFB guide that details how the system works and how to tweak it. You can find the FFB guide here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29907-Force-Feedback-Guide-for-Project-CARS).

Thing is majority of people do not need or even require a guide as they will never touch the multitude of adjustments.
The FFB worked great before they introduced all these sliders, it had just the normal stuff found in every decent Sim and worked perfect.

If people wanted to fiddle they used files in a FFB folder like Jack does, there was no requirement whatsoever to have overly complex sliders to alter everything for the vast majority of game users and still is'nt.

In fact when all those sliders were introduced with no explanations on screen, I thought they had totally broken it as using my normal settings there was little if any feedback at all, felt like driving on ice with wooden tyres. (was not just me either)

And now if you have a fiddle with sliders without noting your original settings, mess it up and click reset to defaults the FFB needs totally different settings to before.

Hopefully they get it fixed promptly on Monday ie find the Typo if that's what it is.

Luckily not effected as my original settings still work great, and only 3 settings touched at that.

JeyD02
13-06-2015, 20:42
Oh boy this is a mess :/. May if in the OP we could have an overview of the most prominent solution and settings adjustment we can make to our settings to fix certain ffb issues.

ermo
13-06-2015, 20:47
f people wanted to fiddle they used files in a FFB folder like Jack does, there was no requirement whatsoever to have overly complex sliders to alter everything for the vast majority of game users and still is'nt.

You do realize that you are being very PC centric right now, yes?

Thing is, we have a million plus customers on consoles for whom the FFB would have been basically non-adjustable had AJ & co. not implemented the UI sliders based on the parameters available in the FFB XML tweaker files. So as you have probably realized by now, the UI with sliders was very much a necessary requirement. :)

Del-Dredd
13-06-2015, 20:54
Was I, thought the Million Plus was everybody not just consoles, Would be interesting to see how many Console users actually use a good FFB wheel.

But I am sure most of the console users will not touch the majority of those sliders will they, just like their PC using counterparts, that is unless the Console versions have a dam sight less of them.

I have seen posts from PS4 users who seem to be using FFB folders from what they have written in any case, do Jacks files work for them as well?.
I was not even sure it would be possible to set up a folder on a console game.

ermo
13-06-2015, 21:00
But I am sure most of the console users will not even touch all of those sliders will they, That is unless the Console versions have a dam sight less of them.
I have seen posts from PS4 users who seem to be using FFB folders from what they have written in any case, do Jacks files work for them as well?.

I wouldn't know as I don't own a console. The point was that SMS included the UI because of the requirements of consoles as I understand it. If you don't quite know what to make of that , take it up with them.

As I see it the FFB system is very advanced and very clever (and I fully support that), but it could do with some pretty pictures and videos explaining why it is designed the way it is, such that those with less formal education in math and physics can get with the program.

But since I don't have access to the code proper, there's not much I can do about it.

ermo
13-06-2015, 21:07
Sorry, it's a t500 now, nees to update, and i meant to put halve, i.e. 55% from 100, but also maybe 5* increase on soft clipping. The factor of 10, ie reducing to 10 and no other changes felt awful.

50 tf feela ok, but no ffb at all straight ahead wihout using deadzome renoval, and a 0.01 increase of that induces massive wheel shake.

Hm. Does it make a difference if you put the TF to 10% and keep adding Deadzone Range Removal in 0.01 increments? I might seem fixated on the factor-of-ten solution, but the more people I can convince to try it, the more data we will have either way. It could also be that it was just a lucky guess on my part and that the issue is not related to TF directly, but to some of the internal multiplication in the FFB pipeline or even in the centering spring code.

I guess we'll see.

Roger Prynne
13-06-2015, 21:13
Was I, thought the Million Plus was everybody not just consoles, Would be interesting to see how many Console users actually use a good FFB wheel.

But I am sure most of the console users will not touch the majority of those sliders will they, just like their PC using counterparts, that is unless the Console versions have a dam sight less of them.

I have seen posts from PS4 users who seem to be using FFB folders from what they have written in any case, do Jacks files work for them as well?.
I was not even sure it would be possible to set up a folder on a console game.

Yes they use the converted Jacks files in Exel and PDF format.


For the Console Guys

Here a detailed Exel and PDF file V1.5 by forum member "Wootball"

https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0Bw5ul...xport=download
https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0Bw5ul...xport=download

And for you information, loads of people use them.

Vit7
13-06-2015, 21:35
I wouldn't know as I don't own a console. The point was that SMS included the UI because of the requirements of consoles as I understand it. If you don't quite know what to make of that , take it up with them.

As I see it the FFB system is very advanced and very clever (and I fully support that), but it could do with some pretty pictures and videos explaining why it is designed the way it is, such that those with less formal education in math and physics can get with the program.

But since I don't have access to the code proper, there's not much I can do about it.

It seem like you not clearly understand what Del-Dredd wrote. Numbers of extra sliders/control didn’t transform directly to "better ffb" (quite opposite in pcars case) if very base/root of that numbers completely broke. GTR2 (race07) has 3-5 sliders with much superior FFB than pCars (in it current state at least) More then million consoles costumer will be more than happy with same concept. Especially because 99.9% of them will never touch this sliders anyway.

“hey, our base FFB not working… but at least we give you 50 sliders. Try to fix it yourself”.

Sound like we have extra options to FIX what must be working in first place instead of IMPROVE it.

ermo
13-06-2015, 22:06
It seem like you not clearly understand what Del-Dredd wrote. Numbers of extra sliders/control didn’t transform directly to "better ffb" (quite opposite in pcars case) if very base/root of that numbers completely broke. GTR2 (race07) has 3-5 sliders with much superior FFB than pCars (in it current state at least) More then million consoles costumer will be more than happy with same concept. Especially because 99.9% of them will never touch this sliders anyway.

“hey, our base FFB not working… but at least we give you 50 sliders. Try to fix it yourself”.

Sound like we have extra options to FIX what must be working in first place instead of IMPROVE it.

TL;DR: I disagree with your assessment.


I understood what Del-Dredd wrote -- he is basically uncomfortable with change and the (perceived) complexity of the Project CARS FFB. And, technically speaking, the FFB works as designed/is not broken*. In fact, my G27 FFB feel is quite good at its base settings. Jack Spade's tweaker values serve to add extra nuance to that base feel in my experience.

*: Now, clearly something untoward happened in the v1.4 patch and SMS are still investigating the issue.

Leaving that snafu aside, it is important to note that zeroing in on what settings a particular wheel likes is tedious work. The FFB sliders were released as is because we're essentially searching the FFB configuration space for suitable solutions for a variety of consumer wheels (Jack Spade's tweakers is a prominent example of this).

Again, from a design and configuration perspective, the pCARS FFB is very clever I think, as it can be moulded to emphasise different handling cues. If the driver is used to the FFB from earlier titles, he may be surprised at how different the Project CARS FFB feels, in part because so much of it is driven by the Seta Tyre Model (which doesn't feel like the older/competing tyre models) and the forces that it passes through the mathematically correct suspension geometry rack transforms to the virtual steering column.

But you see, people have had close to ten years to search the FFB problem space in GTR2 for solutions that work well with various wheels, and they have gotten used to how their preferred solution feels. And GTR2 doesn't use anywhere near as powerful a tyre model as does Project CARS.

Expecting Project CARS to feel just like GTR2 is likely to be a fool's errand. As people begin to wrap their heads around how to configure the FFB to their tastes, I predict that they will begin to see the nuances and the qualities of the Project CARS FFB and come to respect and enjoy it.

Feel free to disagree. :)

Liquid_Drummer
13-06-2015, 22:06
Spent more time tweaking and reloading tracks and get it nailed. BOOM a patch comes a long and wrecks it all. Story of my life ! Lowered tire force to compensate and now details are missing. Not moaning. Just kind of sad and very depressed. I think this is the end...

Of this post.

TrevorAustin
13-06-2015, 22:17
Hm. Does it make a difference if you put the TF to 10% and keep adding Deadzone Range Removal in 0.01 increments? I might seem fixated on the factor-of-ten solution, but the more people I can convince to try it, the more data we will have either way. It could also be that it was just a lucky guess on my part and that the issue is not related to TF directly, but to some of the internal multiplication in the FFB pipeline or even in the centering spring code.

I guess we'll see.

The deadzone removal uses,to work great at 0.08 and fall off at 0.02, now it has be. 01 or huge vibration with any sort of usable ffb and fall off the same or wheel kock full right. Not a factor of 10 for me i don't tgibk. Maybe there's more than one issue

Andrew_WOT
13-06-2015, 22:20
So what's the final word on FFB fix.
- Do we lower TF
- Set soft clip to 0 as Jack recommends
- Set to to higher value as recommended in this thread
- Just wait while dev is working on the patch

Not a single official word from staff. Is that a bug, what is a proper workaround?
Which of these 37 sliders do we need to tweak?

TrevorAustin
13-06-2015, 22:29
There's been plenty of official word. But no fix as they don't know what it is yet. So you'll have to wait like everybody:) and work out what's beat for you, its a pain but one if those damn things!

Andrew_WOT
13-06-2015, 22:43
There's been plenty of official word. But no fix as they don't know what it is yet. So you'll have to wait like everybody:) and work out what's beat for you, its a pain but one if those damn things!

Thanks, must have missed it, can you please point to that "official word" post.

TrevorAustin
13-06-2015, 22:46
Thanks, must have missed it, can you please point to that "official word" post.

There's about 10-20 of them, afraid you'll have to search for yourself , I'm busy switching between racing myself and watching le mans.

DyndaS
14-06-2015, 04:20
Anyone know some good settings for DFGT? Before patch was good and now that is disaster... i tryed use lower TF and FFB settings but that dont really work. FFB dont exist and very big clipping is there anyway.

morning_wood
14-06-2015, 05:19
none of the suggested "fixes" for FFB considers, at least on the MOMO, that there is forced center spring.

Krobo
14-06-2015, 05:46
@Andrew this is the post that at least lets you know they are on it ..




http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?30820-Patch-1-4-FFB-reports&p=986620&viewfull=1#post986620

Andrew_WOT
14-06-2015, 06:16
@Andrew this is the post that at least lets you know they are on it ..




http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?30820-Patch-1-4-FFB-reports&p=986620&viewfull=1#post986620
Thanks, I was hoping for something more concrete than "you must be onto something". Let's hope it gets sorted out in timely manner as I am at complete loss at what to do, lowering TF alone does not work as expected as affects low force details.

Wolkenwolf
14-06-2015, 06:37
Thanks, I was hoping for something more concrete than "you must be onto something". Let's hope it gets sorted out in timely manner as I am at complete loss at what to do, lowering TF alone does not work as expected as affects low force details.

On my G25 reducing TF is good for nothing except complete loss of all FFB.
I'm fine with the two soft clipping values at 5.0, rest on defaults. Its like before patch 1.4, perhaps a little bit better.