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RowJimmyRow
12-06-2015, 10:42
Hi All,

I have followed the progress of pCars with interest through most of the development. I am not a gamer, and I have never played any racing games, but my father raced SCCA when I was young and I have always had an interest and wanted to learn to drive in a simulator. I have watched some of the gentlemen club videos from Yorkie, and I have read a lot on the forum about respectful drivers. I also have read a lot about horrible drivers in the online servers... I don't want to be one of those!

So, where do I start? If I want to really learn to drive correctly, what is the best approach? I thought I might try the career mode, but I was just slamming into other carts and missing every corner... obviously not meeting the objective. I then just picked one track (Silverstone International), essentially at random, and started trying to learn it in the Clio, thinking that slow would be good for me. Both of my decisions, track and car, were probably poorly informed. Does anybody else have a good suggestion for a starting combo? Should I keep running the track in free practice until I have it mastered, or should I just practice with a full grid? When should I try to tackle another track? Is there any way to get feedback from more knowledgable drivers when I think I am getting better?

BTW, I absolutely love the game so far! Absolutely addictive even though I am not even close to meeting my own goals yet. Thanks SMS!

Thanks,
Chad

Ally_bassman
12-06-2015, 10:49
Don't be too aggressive....that's a tip for playing online.

There's nothing wrong with defending your line, but weaving and blocking is frowned upon. I find taking it easy on the first lap helps staying out of trouble, but naturally, some people will still end up smashing you off regardless.

The Clio cup can be a tricky car to handle while being moderately paced....So actually it isn't a bad car 'to get your eye in' and used to the handling and feel for the game. Silverstone is a nice wide track which is also good for learning.

I'd suggest trying Donnington too, and Outlon Park.

MikeyTT
12-06-2015, 11:01
Race like it's a real car, with real consequences.

It's always better to understand a track layout before you race, then you won't get surprised by a particular corner, or indeed where a competitor may be braking. You don't really need to go to town on this, as long as you can pump in several consistent lap times then I would say that's a good start. I wouldn't initially worry about how quick you are compared to others. The times will come with track and car experience.

Always be careful in braking zones. If there isn't really a gap then don't brake too late and risk bumping into the guys in-front.

Online is a bit hit and miss with the quality of other drivers at present, so maybe have a look at the likes of the TGC: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?21977-%26%239762%3B-TGC-NCC-The-Gentlemen-s-Club%99-New-Comers-Club-Recruitment-%26%239762%3B

These guys included people with all skill levels, some slow and some very fast.

As for the AI, some of them can be a little too aggressive, but if you get the difficulty % right then you should be able to race in the pack with them. I would recommend a fairly easy car to drive as a start, one that doesn't spit you off on every corner and isn't too fast. Personally I would look at the McLaren GT3, the Formula Gulf, or maybe even the Caterham Classic, tho the classic can be a little tail happy under braking.

Track wise I would try the larger tracks with space to get your experience and confidence up, so something like Monza, Silverstone or Spa. Narrow tracks won't help when you start adding AI into the mix. As much as I love Oulton, it's a very narrow track. I would also start with a handful of AI and pace yourself with them. Something like 5 or 10 then just start building up your awareness of where they are on track and where they brake and what they do to protect their lines.

Just give it time. I'm sure with practise on a track and with one car, you'll start to really get a great feel for them both. It'll be a lot easier to then jump into other cars/tracks.

Hope that helps...

mpl911
12-06-2015, 11:59
The Clio is a decent car but bear in mind it's one of only a very few front-wheel drive cars. This is fine, and it would be a decent car to learn a track in for the first few laps, but bear in mind that the vast majority of cars in PC are proper rear-wheel drive racers. These drive very differently to the FWD clio and megane. When you're ready to race on line there's a very good chance you will have to choose one of a range of RWD cars, which behave very differently. I like the small Ginetta - the junior. It's RWD but isn't as crazy as some of the other, lower-powered, RWD cars like the escort and sierra. As Ally Bassman said, silverstone is a good track to learn on - it's very forgiving and wide. Just choose a short config and start off slowly, getting to know the car, and learning the track. Then, over the next 10 laps or so try to get slightly quicker each lap.

Try to get closer into the apexes. slow-in, fast-out etc. very wide into the corners. start by slowing down too much for each corner, then slowly move your braking point closer to the corner. always brake in a straight line, esp with the RWD cars. Slow down fully before the corner THEN turn the wheel. If you have to start turning the wheel while you're still braking, you've left it too late. Ideally you should brake and change into the appropriate gear to come out of the corner before you even start turning the wheel. And when you accelerate out of the corner, take it easy. You'll find yourself trying to accelerate too quickly and the back end will come out and then it's all over; gently increase the pressure on the accelerator - don't jump on it.

Get a good feel for a number of the cars and a good variety of the tracks before you go online otherwise you'll just find it annoying and you'll probably annoy the other racers on there too (some came be a bit aggressive with drivers who keep sliding around on every corner). Bear in mind you may have, say 20 minutes of practice, then 15 minutes of qualifying before the race even starts so you want to make sure after all that time you don't turn it around and end up 1 minute behind everyone else before the end of the first lap, with another 8 laps to go!

A lot of people who drive other racers, GT, Forza, NFS etc, are under the impression the way to get round a corner is to slide the back around - but that's not only not the quickest way round a corner, it also hammers your tyres, which can have consequences with PC. When you watch real racing, the only time you hear screeching tyres is just before an accident - they never slide it around.

Basically just take it easy. This is a superb game which will let you create a race with or without qualifying, or put down some hot laps, take some time trials, etc, anyway you choose so there's plenty of opportunity for different types of off-line testing.

enjoy!

AirFlight101
12-06-2015, 12:04
In my opinion the greatest potential about being good is about learning the tracks!! If you don't know where you have to break and finding the right apex for every corner you don't have a chance.

mcbrew
12-06-2015, 12:20
To become a good driver you have to practice, practice, practice. Thats basicly it :)

Try to use the driving line provided by the assists in game. It gives you a good idea about how to attack a corner, the braking points on the driving line are on the safe side, so try to brake exactly on that point of the line. When you are driving some more you`ll find out where and when to brake later. Try to understand why the line takes corners the way it does. This will make you understand and learn how to go trough different types of corners.

Also try to start at an "easy" track in a not so fast car. just to get a feel for braking, steering, accelerating out of corners. Silverstone seems like a good track, i would suggest trying a shorter layout at first.

MrFlibble81
12-06-2015, 12:25
This is all great advice. Try and remember to brake in a straight line, hit the apex of the corner and accelerate through the corner. Also, remember to use all of the track to maximize speed.

If you try and brake while turning it'll throw of the balance of the car and start understeering all over the place.

Remember, slow in, fast out.

creepyd
12-06-2015, 12:28
You also need a decent wheel and pedal set.
While it's not essential, it will help A LOT and allow you to learn faster.

Great example how how to make things tough here.. My brake pedal snapped while playing.
about 7 hours on and off of trying to fix it, and it's glued and fully working again (for now).
However the accelerator pedal now has the first 50% of the pedal as dead.

So now when I accelerate out of a corner, the gap between no throttle and 100% is so small it makes some cars almost undrivable.
Other pedals will likely come with this kind of thing out of the box and should be avoided.

Better force feedback is also essential. Mine is too weak, I can't tell as easily when I'm loosing traction as well I could on my old MS wheel.

MikeyTT
12-06-2015, 12:40
Actually I did a little googling and I found a couple of sites that might be useful to have a read through on general techniques:

http://jalopnik.com/what-a-slow-idiot-learned-at-race-driving-school-481637714
http://www.drivingfast.net/

RowJimmyRow
12-06-2015, 14:02
Wow! Thanks to everybody for the informative responses. I think at this point I need to spend a few hours with just the car and track and practice being consistent. I liked mpl911's advice about using a RWD car, perhaps I will work with the Ginetta as suggested. I think I will stick with silverstone since I already have some familiarity. I don't have very much time to play in a week, so I want to make sure I am actually developing skills, not just playing pinball. I think I will go back to solo racing as well, with AI cars on the track I find that I spend all of my effort thinking about them and I make more mistakes. Plus, if they are faster than me I either struggle to keep up, making mistakes, or I fall behind and they might as well not be there.

MikeyTT, thanks for the links. I also have been watching the iRacing Driving School vids. They are much more helpful for me that something like the Race Control videos, which are way over my head at this point. I don't need to learn to defend a line... just to stay on one!

LADY GEMMA JANE
12-06-2015, 14:05
The short answer,
Don't intentionally ram other drivers and you will be fine

MikeyTT
12-06-2015, 14:14
Wow! Thanks to everybody for the informative responses. I think at this point I need to spend a few hours with just the car and track and practice being consistent. I liked mpl911's advice about using a RWD car, perhaps I will work with the Ginetta as suggested. I think I will stick with silverstone since I already have some familiarity. I don't have very much time to play in a week, so I want to make sure I am actually developing skills, not just playing pinball. I think I will go back to solo racing as well, with AI cars on the track I find that I spend all of my effort thinking about them and I make more mistakes. Plus, if they are faster than me I either struggle to keep up, making mistakes, or I fall behind and they might as well not be there.

MikeyTT, thanks for the links. I also have been watching the iRacing Driving School vids. They are much more helpful for me that something like the Race Control videos, which are way over my head at this point. I don't need to learn to defend a line... just to stay on one!

Let's hope it all works and we'll see you rocking multiplayer in no time :)

Renard
12-06-2015, 14:20
I find Silverstone National to be a very good "nursery" track, it's got a great combination of fast/slow/medium speed corners. I also agree that a lower powered RWD car is good to learn with, the G40s are an excellent beginners car and for a bit more high speed fun try the Formula C cars, reasonably low revving and quite forgiving. Most of all just have fun and learn to relax, you'll get there!

RowJimmyRow
12-06-2015, 14:22
The short answer,
Don't intentionally ram other drivers and you will be fine

I totally hear you, but I can't help but wonder if perhaps your own level of experience is skewing your perspective of these online interactions. For instance, if I were to go online this evening and compete I can guarantee that I would bang into several cars despite my most noble efforts to do otherwise. I would eventually brake too late, go wide, and when trying to correct sweep back across the entire track like a moron regardless of who is on it. It sounds ridiculous, but it is completely out of my control at this point. That's exactly why I intend to practice enough to actually feel competent before going online, but perhaps others don't feel like doing that.

I'm not sure what my exact point is, but perhaps some of the people you are seeing appear to be doing things on purpose, but it is actually out of a profound lack of skills, like me. Of course, I have seen some videos that were OBVIOUSLY intentional ramming, but lots of things that people said were egregious I thought to myself, "um, I could have done that."

RowJimmyRow
12-06-2015, 14:24
Let's hope it all works and we'll see you rocking multiplayer in no time :)

Thanks! I'll look you up when I feel ready to race... of course the Atlantic might get in the way.

RowJimmyRow
13-06-2015, 16:38
I was able to find an hour to put into the Ginetta on Silverstone last night, and it was a blast! I find that I am able to run fairly fast and consistent on my own, but I have lots of trouble still in a group. Obviously, more than an hour will be necessary to get a grip on even a single car/track for a noob.

The Ginetta is actually pretty fun. Getting on the gas is no big deal, but letting off the brake is a bit hair raising at times. Does loosing the back end (at least I think that is what is happening) when letting off the brakes mean that I had them locked up?

Irishnewblood
13-06-2015, 16:59
Try going onto youtube and looking up a few top driver's onboards....here's a few to get you started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuJdN72GEv0&list=WL&index=4 .That's all of Jenson Button's pole's, quality smooth driver, well worth watching for smoothness and wheel movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEYNPCNYohI .That's Andre Lotterer around Le Mans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6rXSjpdLz0 . Karting in Monte Carlo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-w8gJP-9Gc . Sean Edwards around Nurburgring,Porsche 997 GT3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F63d-js3GyU . Blanchpin onboard,Nissan GT-R Gt3 around Silverstone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxRmxEHfZ3Q . Tom Coronel, WTCC 2015 at the Nurburgring.

Just a little something to get you started, you would be surprised by how much you learn by watching the video's..Anyway hope this helps and good luck dude.

Schnizz58
13-06-2015, 16:59
I'm not sure what my exact point is, but perhaps some of the people you are seeing appear to be doing things on purpose, but it is actually out of a profound lack of skills, like me. Of course, I have seen some videos that were OBVIOUSLY intentional ramming, but lots of things that people said were egregious I thought to myself, "um, I could have done that."
There's an old saying that goes something like, "Don't attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence." I'm like you in that I don't want to do much online racing until I'm reasonably good offline because I don't want to be "that guy".

Willbert07
13-06-2015, 18:15
Learn the car you want to race in. Learn the tracks so you know the braking zones. Know when to overtake and not to slam in to people. Take you time when you're overtaking, there might be a better opportunity on the next stretch rather than diving in. Try to learn when to let a car behind you go through if you've made a mistake so that you don't piss everyone off my cutting back across the racing line.

I'd also suggest using as few assists assists as you can, it'll help you get better pace and consistency as you progress.

Try not to brake under turning, when you hit a turn you should already be at the right pace to turn then be able to accelerate out of the apex for maximum pace.

Most of all though, enjoy the feel of the game and it'll come to you as you play more. When you get it right, it's really satisfying.

Willbert07
13-06-2015, 18:18
I was able to find an hour to put into the Ginetta on Silverstone last night, and it was a blast! I find that I am able to run fairly fast and consistent on my own, but I have lots of trouble still in a group. Obviously, more than an hour will be necessary to get a grip on even a single car/track for a noob.

The Ginetta is actually pretty fun. Getting on the gas is no big deal, but letting off the brake is a bit hair raising at times. Does loosing the back end (at least I think that is what is happening) when letting off the brakes mean that I had them locked up?

It normally means you are hitting the gas too quickly off the turn but it depends on the car.

gpk99
13-06-2015, 19:09
Learn the tracks....like the back of your hand. All pro drivers walk the track or bike/cycle the track they are on--for good reason.....to LEARN. In some cases...like the Nord for instance--learn it in sections. The first time I had the priveledge of getting a game that had the Nordschleife was Gran Prix Legends,and it took me almost 5 weeks to say I knew it well enough to go balls out fast .Niki Lauda gave it the name of "Green Hell" for a very good reason. You have to walk before you can run,right?

Have fun Jimmy...go Jimmy go....:P

Hlspwn
13-06-2015, 19:10
I was able to find an hour to put into the Ginetta on Silverstone last night, and it was a blast! I find that I am able to run fairly fast and consistent on my own, but I have lots of trouble still in a group. Obviously, more than an hour will be necessary to get a grip on even a single car/track for a noob.

I am in pretty much a similar situation to your self. The last game I really raced in was forza 4, I used to use a controller only until in the last 6 months I switched to a Microsoft wireless ffb wheel and to be honest it was bloody terrible. Left console and switched back to pc gaming. Brought a Logitech g27, and used AC to just mess around and get used to the wheel before pcars came out. I had followed project cars for a while and had way missed the crowd funding.
Because project cars physics are quite advanced I wanted to try and apply my rl driving skills to the game, and I want to be good so I have started with all assists off, and made the hood as realist as possible so everything is off. my ideals are to make it as realist as possible.
In forza I got into a really bad habit of using the braking line as a guide. I would really recommend not doing this. You will learn the tracks a lot faster and have far more knowledge of them using the track as a datum, rather than an imaginary line.
I would also recommend racing the ai to learn the track instead of hot lapping. The trouble of hot lapping is that there is you and the car and an empty track. Yes you learn the track and the car,but with nothing to trouble you you drive the track as quickly as you can, hit all the apexs, get a perfect lap. But when you try and apply that to a race, you can not recreate those conditions unless you are at the front. So as a new racer you suddenly have a lot more to deal with, cars are every where and it can be easy to be off line, so the perfect lap no longer applies. My experience in this situation is that I end up over driving the car.
If you race the ai, and tend to be at the back, follow what the cars in front are doing. Watch where they brake, what lines they take. Watch how they crash or spin off, or how they get past. Learn just to keep up with them. Pretty soon, you'll be flying by them. Racing races will give you experience that you are never going to learn in hot lapping.
Think that's why in forza I was not the best racer lol

Roger Prynne
13-06-2015, 19:18
I don't think you have told us if you have a wheel or a pad yet... if a wheel which one have you got?

Willbert07
13-06-2015, 19:24
Learn the tracks....like the back of your hand. All pro drivers walk the track or bike/cycle the track they are on--for good reason.....to LEARN. In some cases...like the Nord for instance--learn it in sections. The first time I had the priveledge of getting a game that had the Nordschleife was Gran Prix Legends,and it took me almost 5 weeks to say I knew it well enough to go balls out fast .Niki Lauda gave it the name of "Green Hell" for a very good reason. You have to walk before you can run,right?

Have fun Jimmy...go Jimmy go....:P


Damn right. I can see most tracks in my head. Last time I did Nordscheilfe, I had my headlights smashed in the first few corners by someone cutting back in to the racing line. Raced the rest, at night, heavy fog, no lights, using pretty much muscle memory and the odd bit of the map. Finished 2nd as well, was probably the best online race I have ever had.

OperatorWay
13-06-2015, 19:55
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?28168

RowJimmyRow
13-06-2015, 23:21
I don't think you have told us if you have a wheel or a pad yet... if a wheel which one have you got?

I purchased a Logitech g27. I am running g the game on a macbook pro, so the graphics are far from maxed out, but I am keeping the fps pretty high with it.

gpk99
14-06-2015, 08:09
haha WIlbert...that must have been fun....I haven't tried that track yet much..let alone at night....(yipes)...

hkraft300
14-06-2015, 09:01
start by doing a search

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?28168-Develop-Your-Skills-Safe-is-Fast

:p

mcarver2000
14-06-2015, 14:41
A lot of the "idiot" drivers we encounter are "hot-lappers". In other words, they tend to use unstable setups and driving styles that are fast. Fast, however, only if they can run one specific groove. They can't control their car (or style) when they encounter other cars or miss "their" groove.

I concentrate first on learning the track and getting consistent laps with the stock setup. I try to stay with the same car (currently working on the Formula B). I then work on making minor changes to the setup to suit my driving style (tire pressure/temps, camber and brake balance). I then go back out until I can run consistent laps. Then it's time to run against the AI (starting in the back of the grid). This give me a chance to be forced to drive out of my comfort zone. In other words, I am forced to change my braking points and lines to avoid contact and yet run consistent lap times. It also brings out weaknesses in the setup that happen when forced to do things that I normal don't do in practice (late braking, different approach to turns and acceleration). Back to fine tuning my setup and back to practicing with the AI until I get comfortable. Then on to another track to repeat the process.

justonce68
15-06-2015, 09:00
I would say turn off the racing line and do some time trials using a ghost a few seconds better than you, watch their line and braking points. you will start to find a rhythm and times will start to tumble. In my opinion if you rely on the racing line you learn nothing.

Patcher81
15-06-2015, 15:12
Sorry to correct you, but it was Jackie Stewart who gave the ring the name "The Green Hell" ;)

Learn the tracks....like the back of your hand. All pro drivers walk the track or bike/cycle the track they are on--for good reason.....to LEARN. In some cases...like the Nord for instance--learn it in sections. The first time I had the priveledge of getting a game that had the Nordschleife was Gran Prix Legends,and it took me almost 5 weeks to say I knew it well enough to go balls out fast .Niki Lauda gave it the name of "Green Hell" for a very good reason. You have to walk before you can run,right?

Have fun Jimmy...go Jimmy go....:P

DoctorKajita
15-06-2015, 20:39
Just to reiterate what most people are saying, it's all about practice. Practice, practice, practice, practice. I'm not very fast in this game because I'm relatively new, but I used to race road bikes for a few years, and the same concepts apply (I'll list some below). Since this is a game, you should really make sure your wheel, force feedback and field of view (FOV) are configured correctly. It matters. This handy calculator (http://www.projectimmersion.com/fov/)can help you quickly setup FOV correctly (I usually set the FOV a bit higher than recommended, though).

Repetition, being smooth and finding consistency is key. This means using the same car on the same track will help. (But, this is not real life, so it's okay to experiment with different cars...it's fun!)

When learning a track, go around it slow and look for markers--visual keys that prompt an action. These can be the brake markers or patch of distinguishable grass or something off in the distance. For example, on Road America, when entering turn 13, I look for the first orange cone on the exit's right side and point my car toward it. This helps me take the correct line to apex and get on the gas ASAP. For braking, choose a marker to start breaking from and then each subsequent lap, try braking a little later each time until you reach the limit (i.e., crash :)); adjust your marker accordingly if you find you're braking can be much later than originally anticipated.

Using the same markers over and over will build consistency. All the while, you should really be trying to drive as smooth as possible: Don't lock up brakes, get on the gas fast without spinning the tires excessively, etc. You want to expend as little energy as possible. After you get comfortable with all of this, you can start making adjustments to the car to see how it affects everything.

Again, since this is a game, and fear really isn't a factor, it's okay to push the limits, but just make note of when crashes occur: How fast was I going, what gear was I in, where did I turn in, what did I use as a marker, etc.? Use the whole track and test the traction on off-track areas to see how it affects the car and yourself.

Another important thing, BREATH. Breathing is super important, IMO. Being calm and anticipating what lies ahead gives you a huge advantage.

I think career mode, while IMO lackluster, is a good tool to learn a bunch of the tracks. Having a sequence of practice, qualifying then race gives you a good sequence of learning, pushing, and competing.

Good luck! (I should really follow my own advice more often :D.)

mcarver2000
16-06-2015, 00:19
When picking braking point markers, try to find something that will not be obstructed by the cars you are following. Also pick a secondary marker (especially if the primary one is a cone -- as the AI and other drivers love to take out cones).

Skeme_DBT
16-06-2015, 00:42
Id say master the track first, then practice racing with opponent AI, and get good at that. Takes practice.

MULTIVITZ
16-06-2015, 02:23
If theres no brake markers you'll have to judge the turn by eye, it will feel right when the scenery and road look a familiar size in the perspective. A personal setup will help with the rhythm, you should watch Wills tuning guide videos if you haven't already. Knowing about real driving techniques can help you get the best out of the car. As others have said, its about predictability, once you get comfortable then you can start to hurry things up. Wait for your car to do its thing, you'll be tuning it sooner that later to improve its response.

girlracerTracey
16-06-2015, 10:12
My advice is "slow in fast out", try not to overdrive the car, let the car have it's head and don't fight it, let the car do the work. Try pulling a gear higher on some parts of the track when the tendency is to drop it down a gear. Aggression blended with smoothness works. One without the other doesn't. Do some Time Trial work and get used to all the tracks. Above all just enjoy it & have fun..you will get faster. Stay calm and relaxed when racing..let the track come to you. Don't grip the wheel or controller too hard!

Expensive equipment won't necessarily make you any faster. Concentrate on your own learning curve and driving/racing techniques. Don't throw money at it unless you this is really what you want to. Not at the beginning anyway. Experience counts for more imho.

Much the same as real life in many ways I guess. With racing blood in your family you should be fine!

grT :friendly_wink: