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tongs
17-06-2015, 02:41
The Only issue i hve with this game is the Handling isnt realistic its annoying and the cars handle like you are driving on ice . After many many hours of trial and error trying to fix the handling issues ive had enough. i dont play it anymore, just isdnt a realistic experience.
The same issue i had with Shift 2 "Bad Handling" is evident in Project cars. Cars slide around tracks, its not realistic only annoying to the point ive completely lost interest in the game.
Sadly ive come to the conclusion the Games these days are never what they say they are when released. Personally i think the Gaming industry has lost the plot and Gamers are losing patience.

SMS, i hope you address this issue soon because in its current form car handling is a huge turn off.

im a PC gamer using a
Genuine Intel I7, Fifth-Gen 'Broadwell' Core Processor
Nvidia GTX980 graphics
32GB Ram
Windows 7 pro
Logitech G27 steering wheel/peddles.

3800racingfool
17-06-2015, 02:45
You sure you're not just on cold tires? Most every car I've driven thus far has handled almost exactly as I'd expect. Cold tires however will make a car slide quite a bit more (though not undriveable by any means).


Perhaps a video of what you're referring to as "sliding around" might be of some assistance as well.

Panopticism
17-06-2015, 02:46
Yeah. A video example would be great. What are you using for a controller/wheel setup? Maybe post a screen of those settings?

Schnizz58
17-06-2015, 02:47
Once I got my wheel settings dialed in I felt like handling was pretty realistic. Of all the things to complain about in this game, handling isn't one of them as far as I'm concerned. Maybe you could post a video to show the SMS folks what you're experiencing?

F1Aussie
17-06-2015, 03:01
I haven't had any handling issues at all and I have only made very mild adjustments to ffb and car set up.

grimdanfango
17-06-2015, 03:06
I've seen the term "Like driving on ice" in association with having tire pressures set way too high... probably isn't that, but lowering pressures by 0.2-0.3 bar might help get a more grippy ride. Also could just be cold tires as already mentioned. Is this in a practise session (where you leave the pit with cold tires) or a race (where you start the race as if you'd had tire-heaters on just before)?

From what little I understand of it so far, sim racing is pretty much two-thirds just the art of finding the limit of grip to negotiate a corner at high speed without losing your rear-end. Every time I try out a new car/circuit combination that's way off what I'm used to driving, I find it near-impossible to keep it on the track, even in the straights sometimes! An hour later, having run 30-40 laps finding a good line and braking zones, and just building up the muscle-memory to react quick enough around a particular track, and suddenly it all starts to fall into place.
I even ended up really loving the Caterham 7 Classic after an online challenge - try getting *that* thing around a circuit without sliding when you aren't used to it... but ultimately I kept it on the track for a whole 25-lap race, and only had one slight mistake.

Maybe trying to "fix the handling issues" first is where you're going wrong. You can try and "fix" the game all you want... it won't make it any easier to drive a particular car until you've put the time in to get familiar with it first. Once you're setting solid consistent lap times without mistakes, *then* you've got a solid enough basis for comparison to fine-tuning FFB, input settings, car setup, etc, etc.

Nicho Lucas Dad
17-06-2015, 03:08
Its your controller settings, i was getting the same thing.

tongs
17-06-2015, 03:10
You sure you're not just on cold tires? Most every car I've driven thus far has handled almost exactly as I'd expect. Cold tires however will make a car slide quite a bit more (though not undriveable by any means).
Perhaps a video of what you're referring to as "sliding around" might be of some assistance as well.

Nothing do do with any of that stuff mate.
Ive tried everything, Force feed back, Wheel configurations, Set up Adjustments. its just the way the games been developed.

yusupov
17-06-2015, 03:15
there is a lot of progressive grip in pcars & i think thats what youre noticing. most sims have sortve have a three stage full-grip/loose/sliding/out of control. pcars you rarely have full grip, it doesnt mean youre sliding, its just the way the game communicates less than 100% grip. its not the only sim to do this; rfactor2 is similar (imo). both are known for having ridiculously complex tire models so its probably not a coincidence.

imo the result is, it might not feel quite as realistic, but once you adapt it leaves you with better control of the car, & is probably actually more accurate than traditional models (thats just my guess though). while rf2 is much more punishing than pcars, in both i know whats going on at all times which is the main thing.

note that some of this is related to ffb, if you used the default (or at least old default?) ffb, there was no surface feel;i compared it to glass, but combined w/ the slippery nature of the tires it may be what you mean by ice-like. id recommend using jack spade's bumps plus ffb set if you arent; youll feel much more connection to the road.

tongs
17-06-2015, 03:16
to:Panopticism


im using a PC
Genuine Intel I7, Fifth-Gen 'Broadwell' Core Processor
Nvidia GTX980 graphics
32GB Ram
Windows 7 pro
Logitech G27 steering wheel/peddles.

Mahjik
17-06-2015, 03:17
are you blind?

Let's keep it civil tongs..

jason
17-06-2015, 03:22
Most of the guys that I play with agree that the tyre model feels different after 1.4 patch , I would say slippery is the right word and on a average lost 2 seconds a lap after patch .

Schnizz58
17-06-2015, 03:26
its just the way the games been developed.
No, it's not the game otherwise we'd all be experiencing the same thing. Setup is very personal so there's no way a game can know what is the best setup for you. What other racing games/sims have you played? What's an example of one you feel has good handling?

tongs
17-06-2015, 03:38
yusupov
I understand what your saying, I play IRacing now and there is no sliding around tracks, no iceyness feel when driving as there is with Project Cars. Iracing is as close to the real thing as youll get so obviously project cars can get it right. as i said its the only! issue i have with this game, everything else looks and works perfectly on my PC version.

tongs
17-06-2015, 03:41
Schnizz58
What other racing games/sims have you played? What's an example of one you feel has good handling?


IRacing, try it for yourself and compare the handling to Project cars, then youll understand.

tongs
17-06-2015, 03:47
jason
Most of the guys that I play with agree that the tyre model feels different after 1.4 patch , I would say slippery is the right word and on a average lost 2 seconds a lap after patch .

yeah mate, you understand what im talking about, cheers.

Nicho Lucas Dad
17-06-2015, 03:48
*Cold tyres turn the wheel and car goes straight.
*12 seconds behind per lap and more behind the slowest person in the race.
*Brain fried trying to tweak the car (logical settings having the opposite affect)
*1 lap into a race and the tyres and brakes are gone.

This is what was happening to me, If this sounds familiar its your settings.

tongs
17-06-2015, 04:04
Shift series the cars floated around tracks, Project cars they Slide unrealistically and no ammount of set up tweeks improve that situation. turn all driving assists on and there is an improvement, but who wants to race like that?

Nicho Lucas Dad
17-06-2015, 04:14
I am miles from an expert at racing games, i've met a few helpful people on this forum, since meeting and racing with these guys and mate my eyes were opened cos they are effen guns at this game. I now play with no assists and enjoying the game so much more. I still struggle on certain tracks but thats my lack of skill.

yusupov
17-06-2015, 04:14
yusupov
I understand what your saying, I play IRacing now and there is no sliding around tracks, no iceyness feel when driving as there is with Project Cars. Iracing is as close to the real thing as youll get so obviously project cars can get it right. as i said its the only! issue i have with this game, everything else looks and works perfectly on my PC version.

iracing tracks are as close to the real thing & their cars are very good. the tire model is perfectly debatable. and in fact, with the ntm v6 that just came out, the tires are getting more progressive. iracing tires were infamous at being the worst in terms of just having those 3 stages of grip, all grip/loose (for a split second with a chance to save it)/spinning out. now theres a little more leeway...no tire model is perfect and different ppl will argue different sims are most realistic.

Panopticism
17-06-2015, 04:29
to:Panopticism


im using a PC
Genuine Intel I7, Fifth-Gen 'Broadwell' Core Processor
Nvidia GTX980 graphics
32GB Ram
Windows 7 pro
Logitech G27 steering wheel/peddles.

Hahaha. You're very polite.

Notice how I suggested that you post a picture of your settings screen? Just in case something in your settings should stand out to someone else who is using the same or similar input device setup. Did you not see that!?

Umer Ahmad
17-06-2015, 04:31
Shift series the cars floated around tracks, Project cars they Slide unrealistically and no ammount of set up tweeks improve that situation. turn all driving assists on and there is an improvement, but who wants to race like that?

Yup, just look at this "boat physics"


http://youtu.be/zZFxD4gSgX4

Seriously, are you going to provide ONE EXAMPLE to back up your claims or you just wasting everyone's time? I can just lock this thread if you're not here to seriously discuss this WITH EVIDENCE.

Nahkamarakatti
17-06-2015, 04:49
Yup, just look at this "boat physics"


http://youtu.be/zZFxD4gSgX4

Seriously, are you going to provide ONE EXAMPLE to back up your claims or you just wasting everyone's time? I can just lock this thread if you're not here to seriously discuss this WITH EVIDENCE.


I haven't experienced sliding all over the place issues but what is a huge turn-off and what can be seen easily from your video is the way cars understeer. Its really hard to describe with limited english skills, though.
When your car starts to understeer there is no sliding, the frontend of the car is "jumping sideways" like WHOP WHOP WHOP. I know that with some cars the understeer might be actually pretty violent experience in real life when not completely overshooting turn-in but the frequency of the "frontend steps" are so much higher! In real life the tyres are doing kind of micro-slips with high frequency instead of huge steps on very low frequency how it is in pCars. Its a shame because you can't feel tight and accurate frontend with any car.

Panopticism
17-06-2015, 05:01
I haven't experienced sliding all over the place issues but what is a huge turn-off and what can be seen easily from your video is the way cars understeer. Its really hard to describe with limited english skills, though.
When your car starts to understeer there is no sliding, the frontend of the car is "jumping sideways" like WHOP WHOP WHOP. I know that with some cars the understeer might be actually pretty violent experience in real life when not completely overshooting turn-in but the frequency of the "frontend steps" are so much higher! In real life the tyres are doing kind of micro-slips with high frequency instead of huge steps on very low frequency how it is in pCars. Its a shame because you can't feel tight and accurate frontend with any car.

Limited English skills? This was a very precise description. I know exactly what you're talking about and agree 100%.

Alan Dallas
17-06-2015, 05:20
I haven't experienced sliding all over the place issues but what is a huge turn-off and what can be seen easily from your video is the way cars understeer. Its really hard to describe with limited english skills, though.
When your car starts to understeer there is no sliding, the frontend of the car is "jumping sideways" like WHOP WHOP WHOP. I know that with some cars the understeer might be actually pretty violent experience in real life when not completely overshooting turn-in but the frequency of the "frontend steps" are so much higher! In real life the tyres are doing kind of micro-slips with high frequency instead of huge steps on very low frequency how it is in pCars. Its a shame because you can't feel tight and accurate frontend with any car.
That's not entirely true. It's all going to come down to tire construction/compound and speed at which understeer occurs. I've auto crossed enough to know. For example and for fun I ran a set of standard every day Kumho All season radials once. Understeering those was annoying as hell. The slip/grip shudder while pushing the front was so violent I thought I was going to break tie-rods or worse my rack and pinion. Compared to my Micky Thompson UHP Street Comps however. Now there's a lovely tire to understeer, the front just wants to slide away with no shudder. The steering wheel just goes lite in my hands and it's obvious as hell the car is no longer turning. Let off the throttle a little and let it scrub off speed. When it settles in the front grips right up. Lift off too much though in my Mustang and it quickly wants to transition into a snap over steer situation. Balancing a car on the throttle for maximum corner grip is an art.

Nahkamarakatti
17-06-2015, 05:32
That's not entirely true. It's all going to come down to tire construction/compound and speed at which understeer occurs. I've auto crossed enough to know. For example and for fun I ran a set of standard every day Kumho All season radials once. Understeering those was annoying as hell. The slip/grip shudder while pushing the front was so violent I thought I was going to break tie-rods or worse my rack and pinion. Compared to my Micky Thompson UHP Street Comps however. Now there's a lovely tire to understeer, the front just wants to slide away with no shudder. The steering wheel just goes lite in my hands and it's obvious as hell the car is no longer turning. Let off the throttle a little and let it scrub off speed. When it settles in the front grips right up. Lift off too much though in my Mustang and it quickly wants to transition into a snap over steer situation. Balancing a car on the throttle for maximum corner grip is an art.

This is true. Like I said "with some cars the understeer might be actually pretty violent experience in real life".

What makes it a bit of a problem in pCars is that you can't name one car from pCars which has smooth understeer, or can you? I wanna try it too. All the cars are understeering just like the one in the video.

Alan Dallas
17-06-2015, 05:41
This is true. Like I said "with some cars the understeer might be actually pretty violent experience in real life".

What makes it a bit of a problem in pCars is that you can't name one car from pCars which has smooth understeer, or can you? I wanna try it too. All the cars are understeering just like the one in the video.

Smooth understeering cars in pCARS? Are we talking street or racecar? I think all the GT3 class machines and the Formula C & FG1000 wash the front out very smoothly. Just be careful coming off the throttle. They grip up real fast if you just dump the throttle which could lead to snap oversteer.

Nahkamarakatti
17-06-2015, 05:44
Smooth understeering cars in pCARS? Are we talking street or racecar? I think all the GT3 class machines and the Formula C & FG1000 wash the front out very smoothly. Just be careful coming off the throttle. They grip up real fast if you just dump the throttle which could lead to snap oversteer.

Oh wow. I've no idea what you're talking about but I respect your opinion. :)

Umer Ahmad
17-06-2015, 05:46
Let's also be cognizant that the RUF GT3 has some pretty tight default spring rates so the suspension might be a factor in the...how do you call it....WHOP WHOP?

I think there's enough evidence in that video that we cannot call it 100% black/white/boat/unrealistic as tongs claims.

TenthDan
17-06-2015, 05:46
Schnizz58
What other racing games/sims have you played? What's an example of one you feel has good handling?


IRacing, try it for yourself and compare the handling to Project cars, then youll understand.

iRacing doesn't have good handling in my opinion. Now where are we?

See how vague descriptions don't help get things fixed. You've left it to all the other helpful people in this thread to describe your issue for you. How about you put in more effort yourself instead of making vague statements.

Umer Ahmad
17-06-2015, 05:52
I haven't experienced sliding all over the place issues but what is a huge turn-off and what can be seen easily from your video is the way cars understeer.
dudebro, please point to the exact mm:ss where you see "understeer" in this video? I see a pretty neutral car holding it's line very well and even pulling in nicely towards the apex of the carousel. The only understeer is right in the beginning when I missed my brake point and locked the fronts so naturally the car SHOULD understeer in this situation. Even through the bus-stop it's taking the line very neutral. LOOK AT THE TYRE TEMPS! If it was understeering the FRONT would get cold but the temps are pretty even (green) all around (neutral balance)

edit: I'll admit to some understeer at 3:40 when I turned-in for T1 but I had a shit line going into it so I expected to exit wide

edit2: Stylistically, I'm a "slow in, fast out" driver. I tend not to overcook my entries and try to "drift" through the corners. Eventually (well not with this iteration of GT tyres) that will chew up your tyres.

Nicho Lucas Dad
17-06-2015, 05:53
Just be careful coming off the throttle. They grip up real fast if you just dump the throttle which could lead to snap oversteer.

Yeah one of my many bad habits,

Nahkamarakatti
17-06-2015, 05:56
Let's also be cognizant that the RUF GT3 has some pretty tight default spring rates so the suspension might be a factor in the...how do you call it....WHOP WHOP?

I think there's enough evidence in that video that we cannot call it 100% black/white/boat/unrealistic as tongs claims.

Yeah I know but you can feel and see the same behaviour with every car in pCars. Possibly the only one where I've found the understeer feeling gradual and smooth is the 300SEL Mercedes which feels surprisingly good. Not a big surprise that its also the easiest car to get Force Feedback feel good.

Umer Ahmad
17-06-2015, 06:01
Yeah I know but you can feel and see the same behaviour with every car in pCars. Possibly the only one where I've found the understeer feeling gradual and smooth is the 300SEL Mercedes which feels surprisingly good. Not a big surprise that its also the easiest car to get Force Feedback feel good.
^it's like the one car I've never driven in this game. Doesn't excite me. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

Nahkamarakatti
17-06-2015, 06:13
^it's like the one car I've never driven in this game. Doesn't excite me. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

You should try it. It is the only car I've tried which you can balance perfectly with your inputs.

tongs
17-06-2015, 07:52
TenthDan
i didnt come here to argue with trolls! and im not going to.

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 07:54
TenthDan
i didnt come here to argue with trolls! and im not going to.

And we're not hosting your posts calling moderators 'trolls'.

Infraction.

NemethR
17-06-2015, 08:29
the Handling isnt realistic its annoying and the cars handle like you are driving on ice .

Man, I had to read this 3 times, but still don1t get it...

I mean I have no such issues, 90% of the cars are perfectly predictable, give a great feel of how much grip you have, and I can push them to near their limits safely, as they do not do anything stupid. (As long as tires are not cold).

I just experience the total opposite of what you wrote.

Panopticism
17-06-2015, 08:31
You should try it. It is the only car I've tried which you can balance perfectly with your inputs.

I've done some rough testing because I know exactly what you were describing, and it seems like that 'skipping as opposed to smoothly washing out' effect that you described is most pronounced on a rubbered-in track with fresh tires. The effect was also reduced by swapping soft slicks for harder compounds, with the added bonus of better grip characteristics. It also seems dependent on the car, and I don't think it's a characteristic of every car unless you transfer the weight backward and/or drop the front pressure. I think softening up the front spring rate but stiffening the front anti-roll will intensify the effect, too. The RUF GT3 does it more than anything else, and this doesn't surprise me given the rear engine, rear wheel drive layout. It's also at least somewhat tire pressure dependent, which makes sense for the RUF since the front tires have a lower default pressure than the defaults on most other GT3 cars. I'm guessing a higher roll centre would also intensify the effect.

It's also an effect that I've felt in real life on high-grip and high-abrasion surfaces. The whole front end of the car will hop and shudder when it wants to break loose and oversteer. It's unpleasant enough that you make sure it doesn't happen again.

I think it's actually just really impressive now that I've taken some time to try replicating it.

PC49NZ
17-06-2015, 08:35
I think you need to calibrate your wheel, wear slippers instead of steel soled boots. I have never had the slightest bit of trouble with what you describe.

Regards,
Jim.

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 08:36
I've done some rough testing because I know exactly what you were describing, and it seems like that 'skipping as opposed to smoothly washing out' effect that you described is most pronounced on a rubbered-in track with fresh tires. The effect was also reduced by swapping soft slicks for harder compounds, with the added bonus of better grip characteristics. It also seems dependent on the car, and I don't think it's a characteristic of every car unless you transfer the weight backward and/or drop the front pressure. I think softening up the front spring rate but stiffening the front anti-roll will intensify the effect, too. The RUF GT3 does it more than anything else, and this doesn't surprise me given the rear engine, rear wheel drive layout. It's also at least somewhat tire pressure dependent, which makes sense for the RUF since the front tires have a lower default pressure than the defaults on most other GT3 cars. I'm guessing a higher roll centre would also intensify the effect.

It's also an effect that I've felt in real life on high-grip and high-abrasion surfaces. The whole front end of the car will hop and shudder when it wants to break loose and oversteer. It's unpleasant enough that you make sure it doesn't happen again.

I think it's actually just really impressive now that I've taken some time to try replicating it.

Yup, that's our simulation giving grip, slip and regrip behaviour as it should in variant rubbered in areas. As real cars do. As other sims have never done, hence us not feeling like other sims. Not to mention many other firsts in tyre modelling.

Panopticism
17-06-2015, 08:38
Yeah one of my many bad habits,

Yeah, I've always known this as "chopping the throttle" and it can be a really hard one to stop. He's exactly right... the tires grip up as soon as they can and there's usually a huge amount of energy to dissipate.

Panopticism
17-06-2015, 08:46
Yup, that's our simulation giving grip, slip and regrip behaviour as it should in variant rubbered in areas. As real cars do. As other sims have never done, hence us not feeling like other sims. Not to mention many other firsts in tyre modelling.

Okay, I'm in awe. What a beautiful work of art you and your team have produced. Thank you. This doesn't need to be "patched", even if the world isn't quite ready for it yet--hahaha.

Do you know if this sort of tire modelling is even present in the proprietary, in-house simulators that the big race teams have?

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 08:59
Okay, I'm in awe. What a beautiful work of art you and your team have produced. Thank you. This doesn't need to be "patched", even if the world isn't quite ready for it yet--hahaha.

Do you know if this sort of tire modelling is even present in the proprietary, in-house simulators that the big race teams have?

I've been told by 2 big names I can't mention that we feel more accurate and detailed than their pro in-house simulators. We also do weather better and more dynamically as well as us having better graphics.

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 09:02
The 'tack', with adhesion and tearing aspects are the parts you're mostly feeling in the above description:


CARCASS SIMULATION

The carcass simulation used in Project Cars is a finite element simulation with specific computational optimizations specific to real time tire simulation. The carcass is discretized into small connected “elements”, each one flexing and deforming due to forces.

Features:

Elastic behavior changes with speed, temperature, and pressure
Rolling resistance changes with speed, temperature and pressure
Sidewall buckling at low pressure
Bias Ply, Radial, or Hybrid construction
Gyroscopic Effects
Dynamic response such as vibration, telescoping, and twisting





TREAD SIMULATION

The tread simulation used in Project Cars is a finite difference simulation of the contact patch, with the tire tread “flowing” through the contact patch. The whole tread itself is discretized into elements much like the carcass, but the contact patch itself is a finite difference grid.

Features:

Flash Heating, which is the change of temperature in the outermost rubber layer through the contact patch.
Componentized grip model. Each component is affected differently by road surface conditions, wetness, and temperature.
Deformation – the rubber deforming in and around asperities, resisting sliding motion.
Adhesion – the rubber bonding to surface rubber and material.
Tack – the sticky tacky grip you can feel on your shoes when walking a rubbered in track, related to adhesion.
Tearing – the ripping of rubber from the tire
Cut – grip from the geometry, edges, grooves, and siping of the tread, with particular effect in dirt and gravel
Tread channel depth and water handling.
Discretized and temperature sensitive wear
Curing
Temperature sensitive elastic properties
The carcass and tread simulations are coupled such that there is no roughness or “stepping”, while still preserving the detail of both simulations. The contact patch size, shape, and pressure distribution is determined by the carcass simulation and is used by the tread simulation. The forces on the tire from the road surface are simulated in the tread simulation and transferred as external forces to the carcass simulation.

Panopticism
17-06-2015, 09:21
The 'tack', with adhesion and tearing aspects are the parts you're mostly feeling in the above description:

Yeah, that's exactly what came to mind. I've raced on real tracks where it felt like certain corners were too rubbered in, as ridiculous as that always sounds. It's great in karting but it can be jarring in anything larger, especially when it's only one corner. That's exactly what it feels like is being replicated in the game at times.

Is it safe to assume that you guys also performed daily ritualistic sacrifices in order to propitiate the racing gods?

John Hargreaves
17-06-2015, 09:32
The Only issue i hve with this game is the Handling isnt realistic its annoying and the cars handle like you are driving on ice . After many many hours of trial and error trying to fix the handling issues ive had enough. i dont play it anymore, just isdnt a realistic experience.
The same issue i had with Shift 2 "Bad Handling" is evident in Project cars. Cars slide around tracks, its not realistic only annoying to the point ive completely lost interest in the game.
Sadly ive come to the conclusion the Games these days are never what they say they are when released. Personally i think the Gaming industry has lost the plot and Gamers are losing patience.

SMS, i hope you address this issue soon because in its current form car handling is a huge turn off.

im a PC gamer using a
Genuine Intel I7, Fifth-Gen 'Broadwell' Core Processor
Nvidia GTX980 graphics
32GB Ram
Windows 7 pro
Logitech G27 steering wheel/peddles.

Most of the talk in this thread is about how other sims handle, but could I ask if you have ever driven a real car at the limit? Like Alan Dallas says, all kinds of things start to happen at that point, and the car indeed feels more like it is floating and slipping, because that's pretty much what it is doing. The main difference with a sim is that those feelings in real life come in through your backside and your inner ear, rather than your eyes and wheel as they do in the game.

PJ Dunham
17-06-2015, 10:35
UMMMMM im not sure what title Mr Tong is on, Having driven on pretty much every tarmac based game/sim made and having raced many types of car from Karts up I have to say PCars is pretty much as close as its gets in real feel, finally a Sim where you can drive on the Throttle, for me even more so than Iracing ( well I havnt driven that for over a year )
Most other titles like Shift and F1 series are more Simcade titles that arnt really aimed to be Acurate physics / tire model. Yes PCars has its flaws in the tires reguarding temps , wear but still when you get you FFB settings right the feel is very very good, to feel as understeer creeps in , the chatter as cold fronts fight for grip is great representation considering real driving is done through hands feet and arse before your eyes can usually see it, so for me its good and with minor fixes can be great..
If this feel doesn't work for you.....its simple there is another Need for Speed coming out with your name all over it ;)

danowat
17-06-2015, 10:57
I think some of the problem could be the way the game (doesn't) convey the sense of speed very well, this, at times, leads people to believe that the tyre grip is off, when in fact they are travelling much faster than they think.

That said, I am not convinced road tyres are conveyed very well in the game, there is some disconnect between steering input and the way the tyres grip when using road tyres and road cars, almost like input lag, that combined with the (IMO) way overdone cold tyre lack of grip and make the game feel odd at times.

Slick tyres are bang on though.

Luke Townsend
17-06-2015, 11:11
I think some of the problem could be the way the game (doesn't) convey the sense of speed very well, this, at times, leads people to believe that the tyre grip is off, when in fact they are travelling much faster than they think.

^^ This! Totally agree. And no sim can do that unfortunately, unless it has full motion feedback and VR. Definitely agree that's one reason people moan about handling on all sims. Increasing FOV and sitting nearer the monitor can help a bit though.

AlanK
17-06-2015, 11:13
I'm new to all this and did struggle with understeer on all but the open wheel cars. In the end I found a setting in car set up, "slow bump", which the description says will reduce understeer if lowered. I've no idea what it does, but found it makes a huge difference. Hope that helps another noobie!

Luke Townsend
17-06-2015, 11:19
I'm new to all this and did struggle with understeer on all but the open wheel cars. In the end I found a setting in car set up, "slow bump", which the description says will reduce understeer if lowered. I've no idea what it does, but found it makes a huge difference. Hope that helps another noobie!

Good tip! Another simple adjustment to reduce understeer is to lower the front tyre pressures a bit. All the cars I think tend towards understeer on their default settings. That makes it safer when starting off, but soon means you want more front end turn in. I think maybe the default settings are rather too safe and mean newcomers don't get the best experience till they find out how to tune at least a little, but that's a personal observation.

Roger Prynne
17-06-2015, 11:29
A lot of guys coming from other sims have gotten used to how they the feel in regards to tyres/physics/handling over a period of time (years maybe) and think that sim is realistic.
Then they try another sim like pCARS and think it's not realistic and complain about it without giving it some time to adjust to said sim.
Also a lot of these guys have not even driven a car in anger before at a race track on slicks or even driven a car at all, so how can they compare.

So what I'm saying is, give it time to adjust to the new sim and practice, practice and practice some more, learn how to adjust things in the setups until it feels right for you.

EHM
17-06-2015, 13:07
I thought the consensus among many was actually that Iracing was a little icy, as in too little grip? There was a video floating around where real racing drivers compared the physics to real life and said it'd be better with more grip since it was initially lacking, then the community didn't think it was realistic when more grip was added.

I agree that people seem to play one thing and then when something feels different, they say it's unrealistic. I see the Icy/Floaty comment in many games.

Feels the same and lap times have stayed consistent pre and post patch, even when I push hard, so I doubt anything huge has been changed.

Seems like an exaggerated placebo.

Forcedchaos
17-06-2015, 13:13
100 Times worse since 1.4 patch. What used to be fun is now just frustrating. My lap times on my favorite track with my favorite car have gone up a whopping 3 seconds since the patch and I can barely keep the car on the track? COME ON MAN!

Bealdor
17-06-2015, 13:15
100 Times worse since 1.4 patch. What used to be fun is now just frustrating.

Some details would be great mate...

Did you try to reset your controls?

spavatch
17-06-2015, 13:35
I haven't tried all tracks and all cars out yet but driving McLaren F1 is really a mindblowing experience. Five laps around the Nordschleife made me sweat like a pig, literally. Keeping it on tarmac while driving at a decent pace is one of the most difficult tasks I've ever faced in racing simulations. I don't know whether the real thing is as shaky and vague in terms of handling but this one's really hard to curb. Simply put, it's 'unsafe at any speed'. Maybe it's got something to do with not-yet-finetuned ingame physics?

danowat
17-06-2015, 13:37
100 Times worse since 1.4 patch. What used to be fun is now just frustrating. My lap times on my favorite track with my favorite car have gone up a whopping 3 seconds since the patch and I can barely keep the car on the track? COME ON MAN!

Go figure, if I was pushed, I'd say grip was actually more on patch 1.4 than 1.3.........

yusupov
17-06-2015, 13:49
I thought the consensus among many was actually that Iracing was a little icy, as in too little grip? There was a video floating around where real racing drivers compared the physics to real life and said it'd be better with more grip since it was initially lacking, then the community didn't think it was realistic when more grip was added.

I agree that people seem to play one thing and then when something feels different, they say it's unrealistic. I see the Icy/Floaty comment in many games.

Feels the same and lap times have stayed consistent pre and post patch, even when I push hard, so I doubt anything huge has been changed.

Seems like an exaggerated placebo.

'iceracing' was the popular derogatory term a few years ago i think; its not at all relevant anymore. since ive been using it (about a year) the cars have a ton of grip, imo pretty comparable to assetto corsa with the track set to fast. the latest ntm seems to have addressed some of the issues with cars easily/inexplicably spinning out with very little to no chance of correcting.

yusupov
17-06-2015, 13:51
I haven't tried all tracks and all cars out yet but driving McLaren F1 is really a mindblowing experience. Five laps around the Nordschleife made me sweat like a pig, literally. Keeping it on tarmac while driving at a decent pace is one of the most difficult tasks I've ever faced in racing simulations. I don't know whether the real thing is as shaky and vague in terms of handling but this one's really hard to curb. Simply put, it's 'unsafe at any speed'. Maybe it's got something to do with not-yet-finetuned ingame physics?

it wouldnt be a fun car to take to the ring, for sure. i havent tried it since the update; i just found out today they apparently gave it 90s tires or something equivalent to; previously they were supposedly a little noobed.

ex_
17-06-2015, 13:54
I have definitely noticed that cars do NOT lose grip as easily as they should. Even with TCS off, RWD cars will not break loose and stay that way. It's as if the game is trying too hard to make it drivable for race-sim noobs.

Please, don't try to make the game a sim and a dumbed down arcade game at the same time. Decide which one this is...

danowat
17-06-2015, 13:57
Even with TCS off, RWD cars will not break loose and stay that way. It's as if the game is trying too hard to make it drivable for race-sim noobs..

Which cars?, I'd be inclined to say, your statement is complete false.

It's bizarre, some people state that there is too much grip, others state there isn't enough, they can't both be right, and they aren't, the reality is in the middle ground.

So much trolling here.

Bealdor
17-06-2015, 13:57
I have definitely noticed that cars do NOT lose grip as easily as they should. Even with TCS off, RWD cars will not break loose and stay that way. It's as if the game is trying too hard to make it drivable for race-sim noobs.

Please, don't try to make the game a sim and a dumbed down arcade game at the same time. Decide which one this is...

It's not arcade. The grip loss is just more progressive than in iRacing for example where you spin out almost instantly when going over the grip limits.

MysterG
17-06-2015, 13:58
I have definitely noticed that cars do NOT lose grip as easily as they should. Even with TCS off, RWD cars will not break loose and stay that way. It's as if the game is trying too hard to make it drivable for race-sim noobs.

Please, don't try to make the game a sim and a dumbed down arcade game at the same time. Decide which one this is...

It's a sim, your assumptions re. dumbed down are incorrect.

Sankyo
17-06-2015, 13:58
I have definitely noticed that cars do NOT lose grip as easily as they should. Even with TCS off, RWD cars will not break loose and stay that way. It's as if the game is trying too hard to make it drivable for race-sim noobs.

Please, don't try to make the game a sim and a dumbed down arcade game at the same time. Decide which one this is...
Please be more specific, which car, which track, what do you expect, what behaviour do you see etc. Video would be good if possible.

yusupov
17-06-2015, 14:01
i just drove the mclaren f1 w/ the new tires at spa, i dont get some people lol. 180 down kemmel straight in a mid-90s car & room to spare on breaking. i dont think people realize how ridiculously fast it is or that its not a 2015 supercar, much less a race car.

Forcedchaos
17-06-2015, 14:02
Some details would be great mate...

Did you try to reset your controls?

Yep, I completely deleted my saves and started over. No help. I'm not the only one with this issue since the patch.

Bealdor
17-06-2015, 14:05
Yep, I completely deleted my saves and started over. No help. I'm not the only one with this issue since the patch.

I still can't make out what your issue is exactly.

ex_
17-06-2015, 14:05
Please be more specific, which car, which track, what do you expect, what behaviour do you see etc. Video would be good if possible.

Caterham Classic 7, at Nordschlief or any other track, cannot be brought to its knees and always tries to re gain grip, seems very artificial. The onlyl way for me to make the car spin is if a wheel hits the grass, then it's over. But that isn't how real cars behave. They can lose grip even if launched too hard. The caterhams, being very light, should do this very easily. As a test, I tried to get the car to do a donut, but it won't. It spits a little smoke out the back tires occasionally, but that's it. I believe that once a real life tire looses grip, you must lift and straighten the car for it to be regained. All I feel is the car trying to keep me pointed in the right direction and prevent spin. Hitting the TCS on/off seems to change nothing. I'll try to make a video, because this really is hurting my enjoyment of the game. Maybe one of you can find something I've set up incorrectly???

Please smack the guy above for calling feedback about a game "trolling"...

danowat
17-06-2015, 14:06
i just drove the mclaren f1 w/ the new tires at spa, i dont get some people lol. 180 down kemmel straight in a mid-90s car & room to spare on breaking. i dont think people realize how ridiculously fast it is or that its not a 2015 supercar, much less a race car.

It's the same with the MkIV, blink and you are doing 130mph in a car made nearly 50 years ago, of course it's going to be hard to control.

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 14:13
Caterham Classic 7, at Nordschlief or any other track, cannot be brought to its knees and always tries to re gain grip, seems very artificial. The onlyl way for me to make the car spin is if a wheel hits the grass, then it's over. But that isn't how real cars behave. They can lose grip even if launched too hard. The caterhams, being very light, should do this very easily. As a test, I tried to get the car to do a donut, but it won't. It spits a little smoke out the back tires occasionally, but that's it. I believe that once a real life tire looses grip, you must lift and straighten the car for it to be regained. All I feel is the car trying to keep me pointed in the right direction and prevent spin. Hitting the TCS on/off seems to change nothing. I'll try to make a video, because this really is hurting my enjoyment of the game. Maybe one of you can find something I've set up incorrectly???

Please smack the guy above for calling feedback about a game "trolling"...

No, I'll leave it up.

Because:

I have definitely noticed that cars do NOT lose grip as easily as they should. Even with TCS off, RWD cars will not break loose and stay that way. It's as if the game is trying too hard to make it drivable for race-sim noobs.

Please, don't try to make the game a sim and a dumbed down arcade game at the same time. Decide which one this is...

I've highlighted your four presumptions and your one 'order'.

This game is in no way shape form or fashion 'dumbed down' or 'arcade'.

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 14:14
Caterham Classic 7, at Nordschlief or any other track, cannot be brought to its knees and always tries to re gain grip, seems very artificial. The onlyl way for me to make the car spin is if a wheel hits the grass, then it's over. But that isn't how real cars behave. They can lose grip even if launched too hard. The caterhams, being very light, should do this very easily. As a test, I tried to get the car to do a donut, but it won't. It spits a little smoke out the back tires occasionally, but that's it. I believe that once a real life tire looses grip, you must lift and straighten the car for it to be regained. All I feel is the car trying to keep me pointed in the right direction and prevent spin. Hitting the TCS on/off seems to change nothing. I'll try to make a video, because this really is hurting my enjoyment of the game. Maybe one of you can find something I've set up incorrectly???

Please smack the guy above for calling feedback about a game "trolling"...

All cars on the limits 'try to regain grip'. Some more than others.

Turn off autoclutch.

Luke Townsend
17-06-2015, 14:17
Caterham Classic 7, at Nordschlief or any other track, cannot be brought to its knees and always tries to re gain grip, seems very artificial. The onlyl way for me to make the car spin is if a wheel hits the grass, then it's over. But that isn't how real cars behave. They can lose grip even if launched too hard. The caterhams, being very light, should do this very easily. As a test, I tried to get the car to do a donut, but it won't. It spits a little smoke out the back tires occasionally, but that's it. I believe that once a real life tire looses grip, you must lift and straighten the car for it to be regained. All I feel is the car trying to keep me pointed in the right direction and prevent spin. Hitting the TCS on/off seems to change nothing. I'll try to make a video, because this really is hurting my enjoyment of the game. Maybe one of you can find something I've set up incorrectly???

Please smack the guy above for calling feedback about a game "trolling"...

That's weird about the Seven. I've driven this a lot in Project Cars and for me the thing just loves to slide...all the time! ;) I think I am subconsciously trail braking (still braking lightly as I being to turn) a bit into the corners and that encourages the slides. Around Oulton Park it's smoking the tyres on most of the higher speed bends. Not sure what difference TC makes with this car - I drive it without any assists (Seven has no assists in real life AFAIK). Setup-wise I get better turn in by dropping front tyre pressures from default of 1.29 to 1.20, also stiffening front springs from default 35Nm to 43Nm.

danowat
17-06-2015, 14:21
That's weird about the Seven. I've driven this a lot in Project Cars and for me the thing just loves to slide...all the time! ;)

Yup, it's like trying to play snooker with a piece of rope.

Luke Townsend
17-06-2015, 14:23
Yup, it's like trying to play snooker with a piece of rope.

Haha!! :D :D Post of the day! :)

vicdavery
17-06-2015, 14:29
From reading this thread it seems we have both too much grip and too little grip. :)

I guess that means it's probably right, and that people's perceptions of what driving a car is like are wrong. Maybe....

Personally I think it's bang on, and without the physical sensations of speed, pretty close to what I'd expect.

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 14:30
Yup, it's like trying to play snooker with a piece of rope.

You nearly inspired my first sig quote :)

Forcedchaos
17-06-2015, 15:15
I still can't make out what your issue is exactly.

Ok, let me try and be as specific as possible. I drive the BMW Z4 GT3 most of the time and love Willow Springs International Raceway, this is my go to that I race all the time. My track times pre 1.4 patch were around 1:17 to 1:18 give or take. Can almost run the entire track flat out accept for 3 or 4 spots. Since the 1.4 patch my times shot up to 1:22 and up? I'm having to brake a lot earlier and the car is much harder to keep under control.

Those curves I could almost run flat out I can't even come close to doing that anymore and the car will break loose much easier. I deleted my save and started the game pretty much over again. Set up the car again and the FFB and same problem. The cars just don't handle like they used to. I do love this game with all my heart, let me just say that also.

wanganrider
17-06-2015, 15:25
I don't know if anyone has tried this and I have to give Grimey Dog credit for the find but. After the 1.4 patch i had to reset my ffb to default at the controls screen by pressing triangle then re enter my settings and then they applied and the cars felt more better in regards to your sliding issue. I felt the same way until i did that. Sometimes there is still loss of FFB when i select a car and if thats the case i just do that

Mellowyellow
17-06-2015, 15:31
Just completed a 25 lap race at monza online with the Ginetta G55 GT3. (Nice car) The longest race I competed. Didn't check at main menu what sort of tyre wear was being forced by host. Fuel usage was on.

Don't know if anybody else has noticed this? The last three laps the car was glued to the road. Felt like I had a magnet below me! Obviously fuel was getting low at that point in the race.

I presume it must be the track evolution! Track rubbering in? Never experienced that before!

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 15:39
Just completed a 25 lap race at monza online with the Ginetta G55 GT3. (Nice car) The longest race I competed. Didn't check at main menu what sort of tyre wear was being forced by host. Fuel usage was on.

Don't know if anybody else has noticed this? The last three laps the car was glued to the road. Felt like I had a magnet below me! Obviously fuel was getting low at that point in the race.

I presume it must be the track evolution! Track rubbering in? Never experienced that before!

Yup, on the racing line that's exactly what you're feeling. Offline becomes progressively less grippy as marbles are thrown off though.

D4rkst3EL
17-06-2015, 15:44
I am not one of those guys that believe this game to be a dumbed down sim or arcade, on the contrary.

I find the response and the feeling of the racing cars within this game to be believable. Most of the GT cars for example convince me that I am driving the real car or something close.


But with some road cars something is off and the title of this thread coincide with one of my experiences lately. For example take the mclaren P1 for a spin in nordschleife in pcars and in AC. It takes no more than 1 minute in each game to spot the difference.

I did A/B test with all available tyres both cold and warmed up. In pcars the P1 takes considerable more effort to control the car. At low speeds the rear is unstable and prone to spin. This shouldn't be happening with traction control on and in AC it doesn't.

Also during the high speeds the steering wheel very often becomes light and the car wobbles lightly. This car is supposed to have some of the most sophisticated electronic systems, fat grippy tires and very good aerodynamics. The mclaren P1 is an "easy" hypercar(from the reviews) aimed at rich people who are not racing professionals. The pcars version of P1 doesn't give me that feeling at all, it's like it just wants get out of control.

Disclaimer: I just use AC as a reference so everyone can test for themselves and understand easier what I am talking about. Take the P1 for a spin in both games and you will understand immediately what I am talking about. Also this does not apply to all road cars.

Umer Ahmad
17-06-2015, 15:49
Just completed a 25 lap race at monza online with the Ginetta G55 GT3. (Nice car) The longest race I competed. Didn't check at main menu what sort of tyre wear was being forced by host. Fuel usage was on.

Don't know if anybody else has noticed this? The last three laps the car was glued to the road. Felt like I had a magnet below me! Obviously fuel was getting low at that point in the race.

I presume it must be the track evolution! Track rubbering in? Never experienced that before!
Fuel, track rubbering, tyre wear....over 20 laps your car will change its balance and behavior. This is a key feature of project cars! Real drivers face these same situations

EHM
17-06-2015, 15:50
I thought Randy Probst in a comparison to the 918 at Laguna Seca made a point that the car has too much power to be delivered securely to two wheels and that it was more or a "Drivers" car than being user friendly. He also specifically stated that it was a real handful to gain traction out of low speed corners with it.

Just one person's opinion though.

I've had trouble with some of the road cars after racing primarily GT3 but it's mostly me trying to overdrive them.

unknwn
17-06-2015, 15:50
Yup, on the racing line that's exactly what you're feeling. Offline becomes progressively less grippy as marbles are thrown off though.
Ian,
please could you explain in more detail how does the track rubbering work in pCars?
Is it a more simple coefficient of the grip for the whole track or for the racing line? If its for racing line is it predefined one or dynamic?

Why does it become less grippy in offline?

Thanks.

Schnizz58
17-06-2015, 16:35
Why does it become less grippy in offline?
He means off the racing line where there is a) less rubber embedded in the track and b) more rubber on the surface of the track in the form of marbles (which reduces friction).

MikeyTT
17-06-2015, 16:42
The grip I've found is pretty good, if not too grippy in some instances, where I would expect to be heading for the scenery. Though I've never driven a real GT car, so I'm expecting that the slicks give up the grip where I'm expecting to be losing it.

As someone who has raced at club level, I can tell you that the amount of grip you have compared to your speed is pretty damn close on the road cars in pCars. Have a look at my quali session in the wet @ Oulton. Watching this back it looks incredibly slow, and I mean really slow, but I was absolutely on the limit of where the tyres would give me grip. That slow lap got me P2 on the grid!

Watch from 10:15 for my actual flying quali lap.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVIyoFPRC64

Steve Dean
17-06-2015, 16:48
I dont agree with this driving on ice even on cold tyres cold track, with cold tyres i expect a little bit of slippy reactions with the tyres & car I did a video on 1.4 with Capri night time @ midnight other day just an outlap and handled pretty well in full manual no auto clutch or aids.

Link below skips to point where start driving and bypasses menu stuff i recorded, full video below link

https://youtu.be/NZIQTIG-AiA?t=66


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZIQTIG-AiA

Luke Townsend
17-06-2015, 16:53
The grip I've found is pretty good, if not too grippy in some instances, where I would expect to be heading for the scenery. Though I've never driven a real GT car, so I'm expecting that the slicks give up the grip where I'm expecting to be losing it.

As someone who has raced at club level, I can tell you that the amount of grip you have compared to your speed is pretty damn close on the road cars in pCars. Have a look at my quali session in the wet @ Oulton. Watching this back it looks incredibly slow, and I mean really slow, but I was absolutely on the limit of where the tyres would give me grip. That slow lap got me P2 on the grid!

Love it! Great video and really shows what it actually looks like from a real car! As you say, totally on the limit there, and yet if that was a video from Project Cars we would have people hounding it for lacking a sense of speed. Sense of speed comes mainly from that seat-of-your-pants feel. Project Cars does well to get it across as much as it does. BTW, no idea how you drove a qualy lap with your windscreen misted up so much!! :D Kudos!

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 16:55
I dont agree with this driving on ice even on cold tyres cold track, with cold tyres i expect a little bit of slippy reactions with the tyres & car I did a video on 1.4 with Capri night time @ midnight other day just an outlap and handled pretty well in full manual no auto clutch or aids.

Link below skips to point where start driving and bypasses menu stuff i recorded, full video below link

https://youtu.be/NZIQTIG-AiA?t=66


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZIQTIG-AiA

Yeah but that's just like, good driving Steve.

PS, who said our night was too bright?

unknwn
17-06-2015, 17:03
He means off the racing line where there is a) less rubber embedded in the track and b) more rubber on the surface of the track in the form of marbles (which reduces friction).
I have read "offline" as multiplayer vs single player, instead of racing line;) So based on his answer there is a separate racing line grip instead of just whole track grip increase as the session goes, is that right?

Schnizz58
17-06-2015, 17:04
who said our night was too bright?
Hahaha....that sky is as black as the inside of a buffalo on a moonless night.

Steve Dean
17-06-2015, 17:05
Yeah but that's just like, good driving Steve.

PS, who said our night was too bright?

Yea cars drive a lot better if drive them properly video was on default car setup as well, I think night time looks great not bright on my system :)

Ian Bell
17-06-2015, 17:07
Yes there is. The whole track varies as it should second to second, minute to minute, hour to hour.

Stay online later and you'll feel much more grip, go offline later and you'll feel much less.

At the start of a session the track is virgin with constant grip across the surface. The simulation dynamically varies that based on where the cars drive, based on the gforces corner per corner as more rubber is laid down and more marbles and dirt accumulate offline.

On the straights you'll not find much change, with the exception of braking areas where rubber is laid down under heavy braking and a washboard effect tends to increase on the surface over time..

mister dog
17-06-2015, 17:15
PS, who said our night was too bright?

I did http://themepark.nl/ubb/images/icons/default/teach.gif

You want me to post more examples of tracks where it's dawnish bright in the middle of the night? lol
It depends on both the track and the season if it's wrong or not fellas.

unknwn
17-06-2015, 17:15
At the start of a session the track is virgin with constant grip across the surface. The simulation dynamically varies that based on where the cars drive, based on the gforces corner per corner as more rubber is laid down and more marbles and dirt accumulate offline.
So basically rubber is laid down dynamically depending on where the actual car drove on the track, kind of like rFactor 2? Is there any plans to make visual representation of the rubber on the track vs grip in the future?

sirsilver1968
17-06-2015, 17:39
I've been told by 2 big names I can't mention that we feel more accurate and detailed than their pro in-house simulators. We also do weather better and more dynamically as well as us having better graphics.

I'm sure evolution studios tipped their hat to you at what you've achieved on p cars :congratulatory::bee::congratulatory:

Lars Rosenquist
17-06-2015, 17:41
I did http://themepark.nl/ubb/images/icons/default/teach.gifHere's the thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?25844-Night-sky-not-correct&highlight=bright).

dominiczeth
17-06-2015, 17:41
So basically rubber is laid down dynamically depending on where the actual car drove on the track, kind of like rFactor 2? Is there any plans to make visual representation of the rubber on the track vs grip in the future?

There is already a visual indication, but that isn't dynamically.

Alan Dallas
17-06-2015, 17:42
So basically rubber is laid down dynamically depending on where the actual car drove on the track, kind of like rFactor 2? Is there any plans to make visual representation of the rubber on the track vs grip in the future?
There is a visual representation of the rubber laid down on the track over the course of a race session already. However it's very toned down. Was made less noticeable in optimisation passes during development. ISI over exaggerates the visual effect in rF2(not that thats a bad thing) IMHO.

unknwn
17-06-2015, 17:46
There is a visual representation of the rubber laid down on the track over the course of a race session already. However it's very toned down. Was made less noticeable in optimisation passes during development. ISI over exaggerates the visual effect in rF2(not that thats a bad thing) IMHO.
The question comes because there is already quite a lot of initial rubber texture on the track in practice mode (which is supposed to be "green"?) and spotting additional rubber isn't very easy. Regarding rF2, I think their "green" track looks quite ugly (flat grey texture), but the visibility of added rubber is very usable.

MikeyTT
17-06-2015, 17:57
Love it! Great video and really shows what it actually looks like from a real car! As you say, totally on the limit there, and yet if that was a video from Project Cars we would have people hounding it for lacking a sense of speed. Sense of speed comes mainly from that seat-of-your-pants feel. Project Cars does well to get it across as much as it does. BTW, no idea how you drove a qualy lap with your windscreen misted up so much!! :D Kudos!

Indeed, the sense of speed isn't shown well at all. TBH even driving it, felt really slow, but you just knew there wasn't any more grip out there.

pCars is a lot like that. On wide tracks it's really hard to get any sense of speed, in-game or for real. If you compare to a lot of arcadey games these have that artificial feeling of speed so you think you're going faster, but as much as it makes gaming a little harder without it, I for one am glad we don't artificially play with the feeling.

On the vid: If you watch it all then the screen is pretty much misted from the second I go out. It's not quite as bad as the vid shows and I did get a bit more visibility on the right of the car, but it wasn't great. That's where track knowledge and looking for markings on the side of the road come into play. With high detail in pCars on, where you get full spray, when I ran a wet race it certainly took me right back to that day :)

Luke Townsend
17-06-2015, 18:26
On the vid: If you watch it all then the screen is pretty much misted from the second I go out. It's not quite as bad as the vid shows and I did get a bit more visibility on the right of the car, but it wasn't great. That's where track knowledge and looking for markings on the side of the road come into play. With high detail in pCars on, where you get full spray, when I ran a wet race it certainly took me right back to that day :)

Don't know about anyone else but for me, posts like this from actual racers are worth 100 times the opinions of a non-racer. Great to know Project Cars is so close to reality in situations like that. Thanks Mikey, and best of luck with your racing (real and Project Cars!) :)

yusupov
17-06-2015, 18:34
There is a visual representation of the rubber laid down on the track over the course of a race session already. However it's very toned down. Was made less noticeable in optimisation passes during development. ISI over exaggerates the visual effect in rF2(not that thats a bad thing) IMHO.

interesting...i find isi's slight exaggeration pretty helpful since partly bc theres no option to see a racing line when learning a track but mostly bc theres a vast difference in grip as it progresses. id think adding a bit to this & showing it as a feature in fast-forward would be pretty impressive. i had no idea there was a truly dynamic racing line till this thread; didnt even know tracks were dynamic till i read so in one earlier.

nomen nescio
17-06-2015, 18:43
I have no issues with the handling of the cars in pCars. In fact I like this game a lot.

I have been in contact with a game developer personally, whom has a lot of experience with tire model, physics, suspension model etc... and I asked this person which game is the more realistic game when it comes to tire model, physics, suspenion model, AC or pCars. According to this person AC is in "many sense" more realistic than pCars. This person loves the handling and FFB of AC. But this person likes pCar more than AC!

I like both and I play both games equally. But it is my personal opinion that AC feels more like a simulator and pCars more like a game. If someone should say that I have to stop playing one of both games, I don't think I can choose. pCars is too good and I enjoy it immensely.

Nahkamarakatti
17-06-2015, 19:26
Yup, that's our simulation giving grip, slip and regrip behaviour as it should in variant rubbered in areas. As real cars do. As other sims have never done, hence us not feeling like other sims. Not to mention many other firsts in tyre modelling.

You're really good on marketing speeches.

It is easy to believe you hit the absolute jackpot with your tyre modelling because...
- one assrape-drift-lap (@Imola) with street tyres, 100% differential lock in BMW 1M gives you tyre (surface) temperatures of 56-56-58 & 59-59-60 in front and 77-77-80 & 81-80-81 at back.
- you can downshift easily during cornering on grass without loosing the rear of the BMW
- when you overshoot and understeer Schwedenkreutz into the grass (~300km/h) on rainy conditions with Audi R18 you can stop the car on wet grass before the next corner (250 metres?)
( - some say zero camber is the fastest way to go. Haven't tried is it true, though. )
- You can survive without a spin no matter how badly you try to lost your car. Point of no return is completely missing. Just let go your wheel and if its fast enough it will catch your car automatically.

Other things that makes it easy to believe your are trying to make a pure simulation:
- You can't drive yourself into the pit because you think that driving through the pitcrew is more immersion killer than AI crashing your car into a wall
- You can survive un-damaged with huge crashes (mechanically) (because of the reckless AI?).
- Game automatically slow you down if you're on the grass
- Etc...

Btw. Other game studios (SimBin, ISI, Reiza, Kunos) speaks only good things about their competitors.

unknwn
17-06-2015, 19:40
Nahkamarakatti,
I think you overdone a bit with your last post. Although you have raised some questions, which has been raised many times ago. But you are missing the point that not all behavior is subjected as ideal by SMS nor Ian said that is it ideal. What he said is what they do better than others instead of "we are better at everything".

ex_
17-06-2015, 19:43
All cars on the limits 'try to regain grip'. Some more than others.

Turn off autoclutch.

here I am, trying desperately to get enjoyment out of your game, and simply because I make an observation that is not entirely correct, you allow mistreatment by another user? It would be nice if someone at least came to the defense of people trying ot figure out how to enjoy the game.

There are many problems iwth the game, you admit so yourself. One that I perceive, and in the 2nd post you quoted, specifically stated may ONLY be a perception and not reality, is that cars feel like they are artificially trying to help the driver stay on course. That should not be so in a sim. If something like auto-clutch causes this, I could not understand why.

Please explain... again, I am only attempting to figure out why I can't feel the cars the way they are meant to be felt, and why the only way to loose grip seems to be to hit some grass. thanks

Nahkamarakatti
17-06-2015, 19:44
Nahkamarakatti,
I think you overdone a bit with your last post. Although you have raised some questions, which has been raised many times ago. But you are missing the point that not all behavior is subjected as ideal by SMS nor Ian said that is it ideal. What he said is what they do better than others instead of "we are better at everything".

Yeah, I may sounded a bit harsh but I wasn't entirely serious. :) Actually (which I didn't made clear enough) I was referring the style Ian has come out many times and not this exact comment. Sorry about that.

unknwn
17-06-2015, 19:46
Yeah, I may sounded a bit harsh but I wasn't entirely serious. :) Actually (which I didn't made clear enough) I was referring the style Ian has come out many times and not this exact comment. Sorry about that.
Although I agree that he does marketing speech quite well.;)

danowat
17-06-2015, 19:52
here I am, trying desperately to get enjoyment out of your game, and simply because I make an observation that is not entirely correct, you allow mistreatment by another user? It would be nice if someone at least came to the defense of people trying ot figure out how to enjoy the game.

There are many problems iwth the game, you admit so yourself. One that I perceive, and in the 2nd post you quoted, specifically stated may ONLY be a perception and not reality, is that cars feel like they are artificially trying to help the driver stay on course. That should not be so in a sim. If something like auto-clutch causes this, I could not understand why.

Please explain... again, I am only attempting to figure out why I can't feel the cars the way they are meant to be felt, and why the only way to loose grip seems to be to hit some grass. thanks


Are you saying the only way you can lose grip is to hit the grass?

ex_
17-06-2015, 19:55
yes, in the Caterham at least. I cannot turn hard and mash the throttle and get it to spin. But I ahve seen this done in person many many times...

I mapped a button to TCS to make sure it was not coming on in some cars (being reset by the game), and when I tap the button this behavior does not change.

Turning too hard while at WOT should cause most cars in this game to lose it...

yusupov
17-06-2015, 20:13
the caterham classic? id be surprised if its hard to get to spin...i thought a lot of newer ppl initially thought it was undriveable..

yusupov
17-06-2015, 20:17
yeah i got it to go around instantly, first turn, made it as i normally would and just didnt correct anything.

nomen nescio
17-06-2015, 20:31
You're really good on marketing speeches.

It is easy to believe you hit the absolute jackpot with your tyre modelling because...
- one assrape-drift-lap (@Imola) with street tyres, 100% differential lock in BMW 1M gives you tyre (surface) temperatures of 56-56-58 & 59-59-60 in front and 77-77-80 & 81-80-81 at back.
- you can downshift easily during cornering on grass without loosing the rear of the BMW
- when you overshoot and understeer Schwedenkreutz into the grass (~300km/h) on rainy conditions with Audi R18 you can stop the car on wet grass before the next corner (250 metres?)
( - some say zero camber is the fastest way to go. Haven't tried is it true, though. )
- You can survive without a spin no matter how badly you try to lost your car. Point of no return is completely missing. Just let go your wheel and if its fast enough it will catch your car automatically.

Other things that makes it easy to believe your are trying to make a pure simulation:
- You can't drive yourself into the pit because you think that driving through the pitcrew is more immersion killer than AI crashing your car into a wall
- You can survive un-damaged with huge crashes (mechanically) (because of the reckless AI?).
- Game automatically slow you down if you're on the grass
- Etc...

Btw. Other game studios (SimBin, ISI, Reiza, Kunos) speaks only good things about their competitors.Hehe, you better remove SimBin because that was the studio Ian was part of before SMS. Correct?

yusupov
17-06-2015, 20:32
simbin = sector3

Nahkamarakatti
17-06-2015, 20:36
Hehe, you better remove SimBin because that was the studio Ian was part before SMS.

SimBin, Sector3, Whatever... :D

bmanic
17-06-2015, 20:47
Btw. Other game studios (SimBin, ISI, Reiza, Kunos) speaks only good things about their competitors.

By the way.. this part is proven false. You may want to re-examine Kunos twitter.

.. as for everything else you wrote. How very nice of you to nitpick some known issues that have been reported and are being addressed, also adding random falsehoods as fact.. but considering your tone and attitude in the post, that is hardly surprising.

(EDIT: yeah so you said you were exaggerating.. hmm, don't know what to believe. To me it sounds more like you are one of those stuck in "previous gen hardcore ice racers" and just expect their kind of behavior even if it may be false)

bmanic
17-06-2015, 20:50
yes, in the Caterham at least. I cannot turn hard and mash the throttle and get it to spin. But I ahve seen this done in person many many times...

I mapped a button to TCS to make sure it was not coming on in some cars (being reset by the game), and when I tap the button this behavior does not change.

Turning too hard while at WOT should cause most cars in this game to lose it...

Which Caterham are you talking about? The oldie or the modern 500? If you mean the 500 then you are doing something very weird. I can spin and drift and easily lose it in this car if I'm being silly. Also, what the heck is WOT?

Nahkamarakatti
17-06-2015, 21:14
By the way.. this part is proven false. You may want to re-examine Kunos twitter.

Never seen a single word about their "competitors". Stefano has been harsh in the past towards their customers though...


How very nice of you to nitpick some known issues that have been reported and are being addressed
If all of these are known and being adressed, that's good. Those things excluding the zero camber thing (with a note) are just things what I've found. In a nutshell you can drive this sim like a Mario Kart and you can be sure it doesn't bite you back.


To me it sounds more like you are one of those stuck in "previous gen hardcore ice racers" and just expect their kind of behavior even if it may be false
Sorry to let you down but I'm not. Just tired for bad excuses (auto pitlane, damage and the complexity of FFB are the most obvious ones).

madmax2069
17-06-2015, 21:18
Which Caterham are you talking about? The oldie or the modern 500? If you mean the 500 then you are doing something very weird. I can spin and drift and easily lose it in this car if I'm being silly. Also, what the heck is WOT?

WOT = wide open throttle.

But back on topic
@OP

As for the like driving like ice, I dont see it in this game, try to take a tight corner at 70mph you're more then likely going to slide off.

MortICi
17-06-2015, 22:24
yes, in the Caterham at least. I cannot turn hard and mash the throttle and get it to spin. But I ahve seen this done in person many many times...

I mapped a button to TCS to make sure it was not coming on in some cars (being reset by the game), and when I tap the button this behavior does not change.

Turning too hard while at WOT should cause most cars in this game to lose it...

Video with telemetry please. I will record one too. I haven't driven that car since the official release so I will have to see.

Check the differential settings as well, an increase to accel should yield you the results you want, a car that will try to kill you.

D4rkst3EL
18-06-2015, 01:08
But with some road cars something is off and the title of this thread coincide with one of my experiences lately. For example take the mclaren P1 for a spin in nordschleife in pcars and in AC. It takes no more than 1 minute in each game to spot the difference.

I did A/B test with all available tyres both cold and warmed up. In pcars the P1 takes considerable more effort to control the car. At low speeds the rear is unstable and prone to spin. This shouldn't be happening with traction control on and in AC it doesn't.

Also during the high speeds the steering wheel very often becomes light and the car wobbles lightly. This car is supposed to have some of the most sophisticated electronic systems, fat grippy tires and very good aerodynamics. The mclaren P1 is an "easy" hypercar(from the reviews) aimed at rich people who are not racing professionals. The pcars version of P1 doesn't give me that feeling at all, it's like it just wants get out of control.




I thought Randy Probst in a comparison to the 918 at Laguna Seca made a point that the car has too much power to be delivered securely to two wheels and that it was more or a "Drivers" car than being user friendly. He also specifically stated that it was a real handful to gain traction out of low speed corners with it.



I saw the entire video and it's true that he said that, also I spotted some slides out of corners. But he mentioned that he drove those cars(P1 & 918) with traction control off.

In my comparison I was talking about traction control on. In Pcars I had too much sliding and it was a handful more difficult to drive in one sim than the other. Except if the P1 in Pcars doesn't have traction control yet, even when it's enabled.

Umer Ahmad
18-06-2015, 01:13
Even with the traction disabled Randy mentioned the 918 AWD system made the power so much more "useable" while the RWD P1 was more of a challenge, his term was "a Driver's car."

They're just 2 very different power trains. Apples v Durian

danowat
18-06-2015, 06:29
Let's take the Caterham Classic in isolation.

Two points first.

1) This is a low powered road car, as such not only will it inhibit, by design, understeer when pushed hard into the corner, in many cases it won't have the power to overcome the traction provided with by the tyres
2) I have never driven a Caterham Classic, but I have driven cars like it (Mazda MX5 etc)

I'd also add that this was using the default setup, which I'd imagine is pretty safe, you could make it more tail happy by stiffening the rear end, softening the front and locking the diff.

On the face of it, I'd say the level of traction is pretty good in all situations, the way the car will understeer, and what you need to do to break traction, and how the car feels at the limit, both in under and oversteer situations is very good, I'd say that this car in particular is one of the better representations of road cars in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE8B9BL6e_A

Luke Townsend
18-06-2015, 08:28
Let's take the Caterham Classic in isolation.

Two points first.

1) This is a low powered road car, as such not only will it inhibit, by design, understeer when pushed hard into the corner, in many cases it won't have the power to overcome the traction provided with by the tyres
2) I have never driven a Caterham Classic, but I have driven cars like it (Mazda MX5 etc)

On the face of it, I'd say the level of traction is pretty good in all situations, the way the car will understeer, and what you need to do to break traction, and how the car feels at the limit, both in under and oversteer situations is very good, I'd say that this car in particular is one of the better representations of road cars in the game.

Totally agree. I have driven a Caterham Classic (in fact one that was upgraded to a Ford 1800 Zetec engine which is more powerful than the standard 1400cc/105HP engine in the game car) and it has loads of grip as you say - rear tyres are pretty fat IIRC. You can spin it from a standstill on full lock in 1st but it's no R500 that's for sure! Once velocity gets towards motorway speeds then it encounters so much wind resistance its acceleration suffers severely. Wonderful car to drive in reality but it's best on shorter, more technical tracks. There's a guy on this forum who has/had a Caterham Seven and used it on track. I can't find his posts for now but would be interesting to hear what he has to say. OP could try the Caterham Superlight R500 for a more hairy experience! ;)

BTW, the Project Cars specs for the Seven Classic seem a bit mixed up maybe - It states 105HP which probably means the game car uses the 1.4 K-series engine and that model does 0-60mph in 6 seconds and tops at 109mph. The Project Cars spec says 120mph top speed which is too high for this entry-level model, poor thing. ;) It also says 0-100 in 6.5 seconds but doesn't say km/h or mph. Since the top speed is shown as mph one would assume it is 0-100mph also, but that's too quick for a Classic.

Luke Townsend
18-06-2015, 08:35
Actually, guessing the PCars spec is 0-100 km/h even though the top speed is quoted in mph. Be nice if spec said "0-100km/h" to avoid confusion. Top speed quoted on the PCars spec (120mph) is definitely at least 10mph too high. E.g. here is a more powerful Classic than the game one and it tops at 112mph: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/39701/caterham-16-classic

tongs
18-06-2015, 08:59
Ian Bell, aka Mr Bubbles......
what are you? no seriously, ive never in my entire life witnessed a moderator of a 2 bit forum dribble so much horseshit and carry on like an immature school girl with schitzoprenia, as you. so i thought id start copy of all your horseshit post in readyness to forward on to those who matter at SMS, Someone wholl pull your head in once and for all. Are SMS even aware of your horseshit!
I doubt it, but they going to see it first hand how much of a bloody idiot you actually are.

Bealdor
18-06-2015, 09:03
Bye.

danowat
18-06-2015, 09:07
Ian Bell, aka Mr Bubbles......
what are you? no seriously, ive never in my entire life witnessed a moderator of a 2 bit forum dribble so much horseshit and carry on like an immature school girl with schitzoprenia, as you. so i thought id start copy of all your horseshit post in readyness to forward on to those who matter at SMS, Someone wholl pull your head in once and for all. Are SMS even aware of your horseshit!
I doubt it, but they going to see it first hand how much of a bloody idiot you actually are.

While I don't agree with the way much of the business is conducted on this forum, at least have the gumption to present a decent argument, backed up by real world experience and data from the game, rather than drive-by trolling and abuse.

Broad stroke terms like "bad handling" and "driving on ice" aren't good enough.

MULTIVITZ
18-06-2015, 09:24
I find all the cars grip fine when tuned properly. Admittedly there are a couple of issues with getting the tyre performance right for some cars, but thats being fixed.
If anyone wants help getting the cars to hook up please have a read of my ARB post. Having too much bump stiffness is a problem, but having poor weight transfere is any. Then you have the LSD, the LSD has got to manage hundreds of horse power, it's more that capable enough to break away an axles grip if adjusted wrong.
Driving on ice, Saabs are good for that, you wouldn't notice much until you stepped out the car and slipped over!

Nahkamarakatti
18-06-2015, 11:34
Yesterday I was doing some drifting with pCars and realized one possible weird thing about the frontend feel. When you're toying or drifting in real life with your rwd car it is really easy to set the right amount of countersteer. Exactly the same feeling you get if you have good enough hardware and you're driving GSCE, rF2, Assetto Corsa or netKar Pro. The countersteer just comes very naturally. You don't have to think about it at all and no micro-corrections are needed.

I think that pCars doesn't react to your inputs accurately enough. At first you have to flick too aggressively to get past that "magical stabilizing force" and actually make the car to slide. But then comes the tricky part. It is really hard to estimate the amount of needed countersteer which makes you saw with your steering wheel. You're never actually connected to the car which makes it really hard.

You can watch the video from Rast drifting in pCars and you see those same symptons. Lots of small corrections after the countersteer. Compare that to real life drifting onboards and you can see the difference.

How are you feeling about it?

Edit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJBqImdBe5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL90zwTMVW4

EHM
18-06-2015, 11:37
Ian Bell, aka Mr Bubbles......
what are you? no seriously, ive never in my entire life witnessed a moderator of a 2 bit forum dribble so much horseshit and carry on like an immature school girl with schitzoprenia, as you. so i thought id start copy of all your horseshit post in readyness to forward on to those who matter at SMS, Someone wholl pull your head in once and for all. Are SMS even aware of your horseshit!
I doubt it, but they going to see it first hand how much of a bloody idiot you actually are.

What is that saying again?

https://twinanutshell.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/jim-carrey-dumb-and-dumber.gif

Westbeef
18-06-2015, 11:37
Any cars i've had issues handling with the default setup I've managed to be able to "tune" them to respond more how i'd like them to.

hkraft300
18-06-2015, 12:32
Ian Bell, aka Mr Bubbles......
what are you? no seriously, ive never in my entire life witnessed a moderator of a 2 bit forum dribble so much horseshit and carry on like an immature school girl with schitzoprenia, as you. so i thought id start copy of all your horseshit post in readyness to forward on to those who matter at SMS, Someone wholl pull your head in once and for all. Are SMS even aware of your horseshit!
I doubt it, but they going to see it first hand how much of a bloody idiot you actually are.

angry raging reply to ^

Roger Prynne
18-06-2015, 12:35
^^^ Don't worry about it mate as he's been banned.

hkraft300
18-06-2015, 12:39
^^^ Don't worry about it mate as he's been banned.

cheers buddy

what an a*hole he was

Ian Bell
18-06-2015, 13:51
Ian Bell, aka Mr Bubbles......
what are you? no seriously, ive never in my entire life witnessed a moderator of a 2 bit forum dribble so much horseshit and carry on like an immature school girl with schitzoprenia, as you. so i thought id start copy of all your horseshit post in readyness to forward on to those who matter at SMS, Someone wholl pull your head in once and for all. Are SMS even aware of your horseshit!
I doubt it, but they going to see it first hand how much of a bloody idiot you actually are.

Excellent :)

I'm sick with flu at the moment but this is a gem. Tongs (when you return under a new name). I'm the boss of SMS, the owner of SMS and I make the calls for SMS.

Good luck with that reporting me.

Marrrfooo
18-06-2015, 13:55
Excellent :)

I'm sick with flu at the moment but this is a gem. Tongs (when you return under a new name). I'm the boss of SMS, the owner of SMS and I make the calls for SMS.

Good luck with that reporting me.

Time to do the honourable thing, Ian. Hand yourself in. To yourself. Then claim the reward for doing so. :p

Ian Bell
18-06-2015, 13:56
Time to do the honourable thing, Ian. Hand yourself in. To yourself. Then claim the reward for doing so. :p

He got a small infraction for calling a mod a troll. Imagine if I'd actually done something to him...

Pink_650S
18-06-2015, 14:08
Ian Bell, aka Mr Bubbles......
what are you? no seriously, ive never in my entire life witnessed a moderator of a 2 bit forum dribble so much horseshit and carry on like an immature school girl with schitzoprenia, as you. so i thought id start copy of all your horseshit post in readyness to forward on to those who matter at SMS, Someone wholl pull your head in once and for all. Are SMS even aware of your horseshit!
I doubt it, but they going to see it first hand how much of a bloody idiot you actually are.

:distant:
Jeez... What was he thinking? :indecisiveness:

Marrrfooo
18-06-2015, 14:14
:distant:
Jeez... What was he thinking? :indecisiveness:

If you're ever having a bad day you can actually pop into the forums and find yourself the self-appointed 'idiot* of the day' and compare how you deal with issues and strangers with how they deal with them and it makes you feel heaps better. :rolleyes:

* For some 'idiot' is getting off lightly but I'm trying to not bring the tone down...

KkDrummer
18-06-2015, 14:24
Excellent :)

I'm sick with flu at the moment but this is a gem. Tongs (when you return under a new name). I'm the boss of SMS, the owner of SMS and I make the calls for SMS.

Good luck with that reporting me.

did you call in sick? =p

Ian Bell
18-06-2015, 14:25
did you call in sick? =p

I got the wife to call me for me.

madmax2069
18-06-2015, 14:29
Excellent :)

I'm sick with flu at the moment but this is a gem. Tongs (when you return under a new name). I'm the boss of SMS, the owner of SMS and I make the calls for SMS.

Good luck with that reporting me.

Bahahaha

tongs got BURNED

BTW I hope you feel better soon.

danowat
18-06-2015, 14:39
I got the wife to call me for me.
Text is the way to do it these days, no need to put on the "sick voice"

Sankyo
18-06-2015, 14:40
Excellent :)

I'm sick with flu at the moment but this is a gem. Tongs (when you return under a new name). I'm the boss of SMS, the owner of SMS and I make the calls for SMS.

Good luck with that reporting me.
He probably thought that the 'Head of Studio' user title was just another step in the Kart Driver-Superkart Driver-etc. forum activity status thingy.

Get well soon Ian.

Mascot
18-06-2015, 14:40
Ian Bell, aka Mr Bubbles......


Whoah there. THIS is the one true Mr Bubbles, son. My burglar-scarer. Don't go around blaspheming like that on public forums.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk45/massscot/2005Mar25034_zps1cff3b7c.jpg

Bkim
18-06-2015, 14:54
Regarding the topic, Racing is all done by your right foot. Imagine two strings coming from the side of the steering wheel on the gas pedal. The more you steer, the less you're able to push the throttle.

hkraft300
18-06-2015, 15:23
did you call in sick? =p


I got the wife to call me for me.

#bosslife

bmanic
18-06-2015, 15:25
Yesterday I was doing some drifting with pCars and realized one possible weird thing about the frontend feel. When you're toying or drifting in real life with your rwd car it is really easy to set the right amount of countersteer. Exactly the same feeling you get if you have good enough hardware and you're driving GSCE, rF2, Assetto Corsa or netKar Pro. The countersteer just comes very naturally. You don't have to think about it at all and no micro-corrections are needed.

I think that pCars doesn't react to your inputs accurately enough. At first you have to flick too aggressively to get past that "magical stabilizing force" and actually make the car to slide. But then comes the tricky part. It is really hard to estimate the amount of needed countersteer which makes you saw with your steering wheel. You're never actually connected to the car which makes it really hard.

You can watch the video from Rast drifting in pCars and you see those same symptons. Lots of small corrections after the countersteer. Compare that to real life drifting onboards and you can see the difference.

How are you feeling about it?

Edit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJBqImdBe5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL90zwTMVW4

I actually feel the exact opposite.. and you mentioned Assetto Corsa in the sentence of "natural counter steer".. you are most definitely playing a different game to me. The FFB for counter steer in AC is horrible due to their fudged and weird self aligning torque values (check the main AC forum for the thread) which makes it almost impossible to place the wheel accurately or know when to give it resistance while oversteering.

Anyhow, it is easy to drift in Project CARS in my opinion. I do agree with you on one point, actually initializing the drift is harder than it should be in some of the cars, in others it's extremely easy. I can drift all day in the BAC mono for instance. On the more difficult to drift cars you should probably tweak the tire pressures by quite a margin. If you use the hand break to initialize drifts it's straight forward and a lot easier. The FFB affects the ability to drift a lot. If you have it setup for drifting (use a Fz and Fx biased FFB setup) it becomes extremely easy and you feel exactly when and how to countersteer, much more so than in GSC or AC.

One more thing: The video you linked of the real driver doing his drifts makes it look much easier than it is in real life. I suspect the guy is an expert and that the track is either damp or cold. Have you actually tried doing drifting for real? It is NOT as easy as that guy in the video makes it look. It's easier in slush/snow, which I'm sure you've had fun drifting in but have you tried it on dry tarmac on a sunny day? I have.. it's not as easy to initialize a drift as you'd think, at least not in my opinion. :)

dominiczeth
18-06-2015, 15:48
Bye.

I love these kind of post :D Read them very often here and everytime i celebrate ;)

Nahkamarakatti
18-06-2015, 16:09
I actually feel the exact opposite.. and you mentioned Assetto Corsa in the sentence of "natural counter steer".. you are most definitely playing a different game to me. The FFB for counter steer in AC is horrible due to their fudged and weird self aligning torque values (check the main AC forum for the thread) which makes it almost impossible to place the wheel accurately or know when to give it resistance while oversteering.

Anyhow, it is easy to drift in Project CARS in my opinion. I do agree with you on one point, actually initializing the drift is harder than it should be in some of the cars, in others it's extremely easy. I can drift all day in the BAC mono for instance. On the more difficult to drift cars you should probably tweak the tire pressures by quite a margin. If you use the hand break to initialize drifts it's straight forward and a lot easier. The FFB affects the ability to drift a lot. If you have it setup for drifting (use a Fz and Fx biased FFB setup) it becomes extremely easy and you feel exactly when and how to countersteer, much more so than in GSC or AC.

You definitely are playing different game then... :)
With Direct drive wheel I should be those ones affected most by too high SAT. Thankfully they're fixing that one in the future.

https://youtu.be/DXlh2lUuAVo

I was driving 1M BMW because I've been toying almost 10 years with Beemers in real life. And not using handbrake to flick the car because you shouldn't need to. Scandinavian flick should be enough to make the rear fly.
Feedback can play some role (haven't found proper way to dampen the signal in pCars) but it doesn't change the dead feeling when tyres are near centered.

Bealdor
18-06-2015, 16:11
I love these kind of post :D Read them very often here and everytime i celebrate ;)

Believe it or not, I don't.
Simply because it's sad that we have to waste our time on those folks, while it could be a much more productive environment here when we could focus 100% on helping those guys who actually want our help.

ex_
18-06-2015, 16:44
Let's take the Caterham Classic in isolation.

Two points first.

1) This is a low powered road car, as such not only will it inhibit, by design, understeer when pushed hard into the corner, in many cases it won't have the power to overcome the traction provided with by the tyres
2) I have never driven a Caterham Classic, but I have driven cars like it (Mazda MX5 etc)

I'd also add that this was using the default setup, which I'd imagine is pretty safe, you could make it more tail happy by stiffening the rear end, softening the front and locking the diff.

On the face of it, I'd say the level of traction is pretty good in all situations, the way the car will understeer, and what you need to do to break traction, and how the car feels at the limit, both in under and oversteer situations is very good, I'd say that this car in particular is one of the better representations of road cars in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE8B9BL6e_A

After going back and trying this car and the Super 500 version, I have realized my mistake in believing that the Classic car should have oversteered easier. In fact, the power level on the old car is quite low and even though one tire will lose grip, not both rear tires will.

My mistake, and I freely admit that I was wrong on the game trying to keep the car on the road artificially. More powerful cars do break loose appropriately, and predictably.

Sorry for any confusion or frustratoin I caused...

nomen nescio
18-06-2015, 16:44
I'm not going to be able to play pCars anymore and enjoy the driving on ice. joke, sarcasme, etc....

I had to take back my T300RS today because there was something wrong with it. :sorrow:

Luke Townsend
18-06-2015, 16:49
ex - Thanks for posting that! :) Very big of you, and also it sorts out the confusion I had in my head as to why you were getting different behaviour! The Seven Classic is great, but it really is a nimble kitten compared to the tiger of the Superlight. You could easily run a Classic as your every day car (well, as long as you never needed to carry more than a rucksack of luggage :D) Cheers again for posting. :)

Schnizz58
18-06-2015, 16:56
I love these kind of post :D Read them very often here and everytime i celebrate ;)

Surprised it took as long as it did. The guy was clearly just trolling. Didn't even know how to use the quote feature.

barcode
18-06-2015, 17:20
Yesterday I was doing some drifting with pCars and realized one possible weird thing about the frontend feel. When you're toying or drifting in real life with your rwd car it is really easy to set the right amount of countersteer. Exactly the same feeling you get if you have good enough hardware and you're driving GSCE, rF2, Assetto Corsa or netKar Pro. The countersteer just comes very naturally. You don't have to think about it at all and no micro-corrections are needed.

I think that pCars doesn't react to your inputs accurately enough. At first you have to flick too aggressively to get past that "magical stabilizing force" and actually make the car to slide. But then comes the tricky part. It is really hard to estimate the amount of needed countersteer which makes you saw with your steering wheel. You're never actually connected to the car which makes it really hard.

You can watch the video from Rast drifting in pCars and you see those same symptons. Lots of small corrections after the countersteer. Compare that to real life drifting onboards and you can see the difference.

How are you feeling about it?

I feel very much the same. When I drift in my RWD car, the front wheel automatically points in the direction that the car is going until you hit wheel lock, which is something I am not feeling clearly enough in pCars. That makes it very easy to feel the car's direction IRL and how much correction you need to go where you want to. This - to me - is next to impossible in pCars. I can catch all kinds of slides, but when it comes to a proper drift it's just guestimating. I don't feel the point of when the counterjolt (if that's what it's called?) comes in, meaning when the drift goes the other way from overcorrection.

I'm not sure where this comes from, but I am under the impression -since some people are obviously not experiencing this at all- that it might have to do with hardware. Maybe it's the wheel? The driver? I'm running a Fanatec Porsche GT3RS V.2 with the latest firmware and driver installed. I just updated both, it was way worse without that. I have also tried two different setups from Jack Spade, both improved it a little, but it's still quite noticable!

unknwn
18-06-2015, 17:43
You definitely are playing different game then... :)
With Direct drive wheel I should be those ones affected most by too high SAT. Thankfully they're fixing that one in the future.

https://youtu.be/DXlh2lUuAVo

I was driving 1M BMW because I've been toying almost 10 years with Beemers in real life. And not using handbrake to flick the car because you shouldn't need to. Scandinavian flick should be enough to make the rear fly.
Feedback can play some role (haven't found proper way to dampen the signal in pCars) but it doesn't change the dead feeling when tyres are near centered.
Regarding pCars BMW 1M, scandinavian flick is enough to initiate slide, however not with the default setup, which has stiff front suspension/rollbars and other stuff to keep the the rear locked. I would say OEM setups are required until the cars could be properly tested. Although overall feel of the different tire model will still persist. Also non track tires seem to be sluggish and its harder to point the front.

FMS
18-06-2015, 17:59
Believe it or not, I don't.
Simply because it's sad that we have to waste our time on those folks, while it could be a much more productive environment here when we could focus 100% on helping those guys who actually want our help.

Ah, a utopian dream amidst the nadir of spirituality.

MULTIVITZ
18-06-2015, 18:11
The Only issue i hve with this game is the Handling isnt realistic its annoying and the cars handle like you are driving on ice . After many many hours of trial and error trying to fix the handling issues ive had enough. i dont play it anymore, just isdnt a realistic experience.
The same issue i had with Shift 2 "Bad Handling" is evident in Project cars. Cars slide around tracks, its not realistic only annoying to the point ive completely lost interest in the game.
Sadly ive come to the conclusion the Games these days are never what they say they are when released. Personally i think the Gaming industry has lost the plot and Gamers are losing patience.

SMS, i hope you address this issue soon because in its current form car handling is a huge turn off.

im a PC gamer using a
Genuine Intel I7, Fifth-Gen 'Broadwell' Core Processor
Nvidia GTX980 graphics
32GB Ram
Windows 7 pro
Logitech G27 steering wheel/peddles.

I feel yo bro. If you don't know how to tune even months of tuning they seldom get better until professional knowlege is learned. I haven't found anything wrong with any of the cars chassis in this game. They are all solid cars, some have had issue with some quick wearing tyres, but thats getting fixed.

Mahjik
18-06-2015, 18:18
One more thing: The video you linked of the real driver doing his drifts makes it look much easier than it is in real life. I suspect the guy is an expert and that the track is either damp or cold.

It's a wet track (if you go to YouTube to watch the video, you'll see the description).

barcode
18-06-2015, 18:38
It's a wet track (if you go to YouTube to watch the video, you'll see the description).


One more thing: The video you linked of the real driver doing his drifts makes it look much easier than it is in real life. I suspect the guy is an expert and that the track is either damp or cold. Have you actually tried doing drifting for real? It is NOT as easy as that guy in the video makes it look. It's easier in slush/snow, which I'm sure you've had fun drifting in but have you tried it on dry tarmac on a sunny day? I have.. it's not as easy to initialize a drift as you'd think, at least not in my opinion. :)
Yes, it is a damp track, not a wet one, there are some wet spots, but mostly it's damp.

It isn't really harder in the dry, tho:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJvIwyxt7wQ

Much of it comes down to the car and practice. It's easier to start in the wet/damp because you can do it at slower speeds and you don't burn through rubber as quickly, but it's also easier to overdo it.

Markeeez
18-06-2015, 19:35
Make sure you got the wet weather tires on, I got the absolutely zero grip like ice and realised I had soft slicks on :dejection:

KK78
18-06-2015, 20:03
I do find it strange sometimes when I go from the LMP1 class (in my 3rd season) to say the Merc A45 Cup or the Mclaren F1 series that those cars handle like they are on ice. The power difference is not the issue. Bearing in mind I don't tweak the settings much in career it is a bit bizarre that some cars are manageable (I've had no issues with GT5, 4 & 5, Formula Rookie, Formula B or A, karts, many of the vintage cars and some of the road cars- just every now and again I get in a car which is nigh on uncontrollable. Maybe it is the default set ups but I just find it weird that cars from the same class can be such chalk and cheese, maybe Mickey Mouse set some of the cars up and Stig did the rest :)

yusupov
18-06-2015, 20:47
the merc's not a cup car, its a road car, with road tires...its 90% tires and the rest is downforce. tires are everything.

KK78
18-06-2015, 20:54
the merc's not a cup car, its a road car, with road tires...its 90% tires and the rest is downforce. tires are everything.

I'm aware of that mate but I've done many a track days in Clios, Focus RS and even Ferrari's on road tires and they don't handle like that Merc, on default settings at least.

MULTIVITZ
19-06-2015, 00:07
Default is like, bare minimum grip. This is a game that uses real values in its chassis and a realistic tyre model. Aero and road surface are also simulated. The cars sandwiched between thoughs, and it(the chassis) has to work in ways that jiggle the wheels to work the tyres, pushing the car around the bend, then straightening up steady enough for the driver to control.
I hope this helps anyone who can't see how complex car handling is.

MULTIVITZ
19-06-2015, 00:25
I do find it strange sometimes when I go from the LMP1 class (in my 3rd season) to say the Merc A45 Cup or the Mclaren F1 series that those cars handle like they are on ice. The power difference is not the issue. Bearing in mind I don't tweak the settings much in career it is a bit bizarre that some cars are manageable (I've had no issues with GT5, 4 & 5, Formula Rookie, Formula B or A, karts, many of the vintage cars and some of the road cars- just every now and again I get in a car which is nigh on uncontrollable. Maybe it is the default set ups but I just find it weird that cars from the same class can be such chalk and cheese, maybe Mickey Mouse set some of the cars up and Stig did the rest :)

The AMG A45 has a pacific style of suspension design, it needs fairly strong rebound settings to control the front to rear and rear to front diagonal weight shift with appropriate ARB stiffness. You can put quite a bit of camber on the car to stabilise the yaw and get the 4X4 power down early (When cornering). Adding rear camber speeds up the axles slip angle making the car change direction quicker, going too high with the camber will cause issues. Unless the springs are under control the car will get knocked off the road, sometimes the car crashes at the start of a corner without the driver noticing until they lose it on the exit. The A45 is a real headbanger's car its great fun. Look around for tunes, and try them. Have a play with your controller settings before condemning a tune, write down the details to.

Iamlegion
19-06-2015, 07:22
I had a really tough time the other day with the 3 hour invitational McLaren F1 race at Zolder... I spent over an hour tuning and testing the car and only got a slight improvement. At some point I was at a loss what to change. I'm not great at tuning but I can usually improve it a bit to fit my style.
The F1 just stayed absolutely unpredictable. It would spin coming out of corners, it would understeer going in and it generally felt like it was trying to kill me. I don't think I was overdriving it as the AI didn't seem to have any problems at the speed and I already toned them down to 50%.
Tires were between 60 and 75C using the F1 tires as the other ones were even worse.
It was quite frustrating as I hardly got in a valid lap driving anything close to speedy and I finished last after having to pit because of engine probs (probably blocked radiator due to touching the front to the wall.. :rolleyes:

Anyone else have problems with the F1?

I use a T300 GTE on PS4.

danowat
19-06-2015, 07:56
Anyone else have problems with the F1?


Apart from the fact it's a 600+bhp, 550 hp/ton car on road tyres?.

KK78
19-06-2015, 07:57
I had a really tough time the other day with the 3 hour invitational McLaren F1 race at Zolder... I spent over an hour tuning and testing the car and only got a slight improvement. At some point I was at a loss what to change. I'm not great at tuning but I can usually improve it a bit to fit my style.
The F1 just stayed absolutely unpredictable. It would spin coming out of corners, it would understeer going in and it generally felt like it was trying to kill me. I don't think I was overdriving it as the AI didn't seem to have any problems at the speed and I already toned them down to 50%.
Tires were between 60 and 75C using the F1 tires as the other ones were even worse.
It was quite frustrating as I hardly got in a valid lap driving anything close to speedy and I finished last after having to pit because of engine probs (probably blocked radiator due to touching the front to the wall.. :rolleyes:

Anyone else have problems with the F1?

I use a T300 GTE on PS4.

I had the same experience with the F1, in the end I ditched it. I made loads of changes to the set up with minimal effect, it was probably the best example of the feel of driving on ice, the car hardly feels like it has any tangible connection with the road- pretty weird

KK78
19-06-2015, 08:20
Apart from the fact it's a 600+bhp, 550 hp/ton car on road tyres?.

That doesn't really answer the question, the Gumpert is heavier and more powerful, on road tires and is nowhere near as tricky to handle.

unknwn
19-06-2015, 08:22
I had the same experience with the F1, in the end I ditched it. I made loads of changes to the set up with minimal effect, it was probably the best example of the feel of driving on ice, the car hardly feels like it has any tangible connection with the road- pretty weird
McLaren F1 is a bad example of "ice feeling". Low grip =\= ice. This car slides around a lot and feels a bit like a cart, however these slides are controllable. "Ice" is when you start sliding and you basically have no control over the car because it continues to spin or moves forward regardless of the inputs you make and this is opposite of how cars feel in pCars when you overdrive.

danowat
19-06-2015, 08:22
McLaren F1 lap, in the wet, far from "driving on ice", even in the wet, on road tyres.

Pay particular attention to the speed, would you feel happy driving a 600+hp car, on road tyres, in the wet at those speeds?, I wouldn't


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHO80LrNLh0

Bealdor
19-06-2015, 08:30
That doesn't really answer the question, the Gumpert is heavier and more powerful, on road tires and is nowhere near as tricky to handle.

The Gumpert has a much better/up to date suspension than the F1.

MULTIVITZ
19-06-2015, 08:38
It's like flogging a dead horse lol
You wouldn't do it, it's pointless if you did and explaining why the horse doesn't get up would be very complicated thing to do properly.

danowat
19-06-2015, 08:40
It's like flogging a dead horse lol

Because people don't listen, they expect to be able to jump into a car from 20 years ago that has 600+hp and road tyres and expect it to stick to the track at hyper speeds, and think that this qualifies them to discredit the physics.

I've seen it happen in every sim community I've ever played, iceracing, people saying the cars in LFS had "soap" on the tyres etc etc.

KK78
19-06-2015, 08:42
The Gumpert has a much better/up to date suspension than the F1.

Yeah I know mate I was merely pointing out that it's not sufficient to simply quote some 'reasons' Noobs like me need to find tangible information so I can change the car, saying it's a heavy, powerful car on road tires does not really help me.

MULTIVITZ
19-06-2015, 08:42
'You can't go around a near hair pin corner at 60mph!', is a commen one you hear.
If you're driving a real car at speed, it's expensive, you value your life and others, i makes you concentrate so looking at the speedo is only done for safety. Having track telemetry or a passenger soon confirms the speeds reached in corners.
It's hard to give noobs answers, I get accused of talking rubbish some of the time!
Or poor presentation skills. Thats fair enough:rolleyes:

KK78
19-06-2015, 08:43
McLaren F1 lap, in the wet, far from "driving on ice", even in the wet, on road tyres.

Pay particular attention to the speed, would you feel happy driving a 600+hp car, on road tyres, in the wet at those speeds?, I wouldn't


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHO80LrNLh0

Appreciate that but did you change the set-up from the default? I'd be interested to know if you did, what you changed?

danowat
19-06-2015, 08:44
Appreciate that but did you change the set-up from the default? I'd be interested to know if you did, what you changed?

Default.

KK78
19-06-2015, 08:46
Default.

Well that's impressive, maybe more practice & patience is needed for me, in the main I have few issues with most of the cars in the game, hence my surprise when I get to one that I can't get my head around.

Paulo Ribeiro
19-06-2015, 08:47
to:Panopticism


im using a PC
Genuine Intel I7, Fifth-Gen 'Broadwell' Core Processor
Nvidia GTX980 graphics
32GB Ram
Windows 7 pro
Logitech G27 steering wheel/peddles.

:onthego:

Luke Townsend
19-06-2015, 08:50
Responding to some early posts about the A45 AMG, I don't know how personally, but there are ways to make that car do some pretty magical stuff. Check out these videos if anyone is interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdshHyZcmvo
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tgmy5wb5MY
First one is our forum's Alex Hobbs, and the second video is Alex again joined by the forum's Yorkie. Alex especially knows how to drive that car (and tune it too I guess). Think it takes a different approach to most other cars in the game though.

MULTIVITZ
19-06-2015, 09:00
Would I feel happy to drive at them speeds in the wet? Well yes, I've done it before in other cars in the rain, the downforce makes a difference. Just another example of 'you can't do that.....'

Cheers for the vid links Luke.:)

Technically any car aquaplains at 85mph but it takes a certain area of deeper standing water to unstick a tyre. Good tyres good suspension good balance makes it doable at speeds, but remember Clarksons spin out in the BMW1! The center of pressure is quite forward on those BMW hatchbacks!

KK78
19-06-2015, 09:15
Ferrari F40 around Oulton Park in the wet, most fun I've ever had!

MULTIVITZ
19-06-2015, 10:11
Wow you brave soul ;)
Did you feel it was easier than you expected?

KK78
19-06-2015, 10:18
Wow you brave soul ;)
Did you feel it was easier than you expected?

Yes but to be fair it was a race spec one, or close to so it had proper wets on it. Road car wise a SL65 AMG on a shuttle run on the A59 from Preston to York in a downpour was probably my most hairy experience.

MULTIVITZ
19-06-2015, 10:23
Bad enough in the dry lol but the electronics can go only so far!
The offset caster geometry employed by Mercedes has gone too far imo
Its all in the name of ride quality, the steering weighting has much to be desired.

Iamlegion
19-06-2015, 11:04
McLaren F1 lap, in the wet, far from "driving on ice", even in the wet, on road tyres.

Pay particular attention to the speed, would you feel happy driving a 600+hp car, on road tyres, in the wet at those speeds?, I wouldn't


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHO80LrNLh0

Great driving! I had trouble driving like that in the dry... which is a bit weird, since I'm usually not too bad..
Did you use the default tire pressure as well?
Also, are those kph or mph?

Anyway, the frustrating part was more that the AI was able to drive the car more aggressively than me without spinning out all the time. Especially when they touch you.
But that's probably due to some of the known AI issues (AI is still great though).

danowat
19-06-2015, 11:08
MPH

As far as I remember the setup was completely stock, I remember checking to see if the F1 had different tyres for selection, noticed it didn't, so left everything stock, had to do a bit of short shifting to keep the torque in check though.

Sonic6L
19-06-2015, 11:10
I tried a BMW GT4 yesterday in the wet (Thunderstorm) on Le Mans Bugatti Circuit... Let's just say I ended up facing the wrong way more times than I thought I would...

Iamlegion
19-06-2015, 11:25
MPH

As far as I remember the setup was completely stock, I remember checking to see if the F1 had different tyres for selection, noticed it didn't, so left everything stock, had to do a bit of short shifting to keep the torque in check though.

Really? I have two sets of tires for the F1..
One name I cant remember and one simply called "McLaren F1"

short shifting = shifting early? I do that in my warm up laps naturally and it helps of course, but in quali and race I would lose against AI doing that.

danowat
19-06-2015, 11:31
Really? I have two sets of tires for the F1..
One name I cant remember and one simply called "McLaren F1"

short shifting = shifting early? I do that in my warm up laps naturally and it helps of course, but in quali and race I would lose against AI doing that.

Yes, shifting early.

Intrigued about the tyres, will check again tonight, could have sworn there was only a single set, but it was a little while ago since I did this video!, but it's very possible I may be mistaken.

MULTIVITZ
19-06-2015, 11:38
'It's all in the diff' lol instead of all in the hips?

hkraft300
20-06-2015, 11:23
'It's all in the diff' lol instead of all in the hips?

Na mate
All in the hips
The sensations through the seat help you read the car and react accordingly :p

justsyr
20-06-2015, 12:44
I've player racing games since Papyrus' Indycar and everything in between. I remember having to actual do some setups on Codemaster's Indycar and NFS Shift, not even the Codies F1.
I like to just sit and start the game and just race, I like when the default setup is enough to have a good racing, some difficult setting here or there and level the field with my skills and I have a competitive race. Gotta say that family and work prevents me from having enough time to, say, do practice laps and searching for the appropriate setup for a car.
Having said that. There's the stock Nascar like cars that damn, those cars handle like on ice for me. Just trying to race at Watkins and I know that track from all different games and I love it but when playing this race made me come out of the game and search for an answer. I play with no help and at 90% AI and trying to go the up the S part and I can't do what AI does and I get pushed around since I have to brake a lot just to keep on the track and whenever I go too slow the car seems to just slide of the track, try to throttle and the skidding around starts.
Call me noob, casual, whatever, I do enjoy the rest of the game, I just can't keep up with the stock cars. Also, rain, freaking rain. Racing the first race at Laguna Seca the 5 laps race and starts to rain at end of lap 3, you'd think stock cars can make a pit stop to change to rain tyres... if only AI also do that...

xautos
20-06-2015, 12:52
I tried a BMW GT4 yesterday in the wet (Thunderstorm) on Le Mans Bugatti Circuit... Let's just say I ended up facing the wrong way more times than I thought I would...

the bmw is a rear wheel drive so its far easier to light the tyres up and do a half spin, the thing you got to be careful of is how much acceleration you put into it, with a wheel and pedal setup, usualy 10% acceleration is enough to get around without wheel spin, as your exiting the corner take it up smoothly to 50%, and then 100% when you are sure the car wont have an issue. go with what you are comfortable with and start conservative then as you gain confidence that you feel you can do better, get a little more aggressive on the accelerator pedal, but not too much otherwise you will just spi nthe tyres up drifting around the corners and thats bad on wet tyres as wet tyres require their blocks to be sharp to work correctly on a wet track.

MULTIVITZ
22-06-2015, 16:25
Na mate
All in the hips
The sensations through the seat help you read the car and react accordingly :p

Have you got maori in ya?

So your game supports full motion simulation, you lucky fellow:rolleyes:

Ian Bell
22-06-2015, 16:27
Have you got maori in ya?

So your game supports full motion simulation, you lucky fellow:rolleyes:

Actually yes, we do.

nomen nescio
22-06-2015, 17:27
You do what?

Have Maori in you or pCars supports full motion simulators?

Ian Bell
22-06-2015, 17:28
You do what?

Have Maori in you or pCars supports full motion simulators?

The latter.
The former at a price :)

MULTIVITZ
23-06-2015, 09:10
I wonder why he kept sticking his tongue out at me lol