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IrideGravity
17-06-2015, 21:38
Saw it for the first time in PCars for sure. Last night. Then watched a youtube vid on how easy it is. Scary easy to cheat video games. Knew they must have existed.
But anyway, dude just let me through pulled up behind and BAM, flipped his switch which he had timed well, and lagged right through my car upsetting and crashing mine. Took off clean cause nothing had happened in his game.
Anyone else seen it abused on PCars yet?

CPS-3
17-06-2015, 21:45
Never heard of that before. Not sure if I've seen it happen. If it happens again please make a video about it and post it here. Would like to soo how that looks like.

Roger Prynne
17-06-2015, 22:08
Saw it for the first time in PCars for sure. Last night. Then watched a youtube vid on how easy it is. Scary easy to cheat video games. Knew they must have existed.
But anyway, dude just let me through pulled up behind and BAM, flipped his switch which he had timed well, and lagged right through my car upsetting and crashing mine. Took off clean cause nothing had happened in his game.
Anyone else seen it abused on PCars yet?

Can you PM me a link for this please.

roadend1981
17-06-2015, 22:50
Are you sure it's not when people are leaving,and entering lobbies.I'm on ps4, and always seems to happen at the most inconvenient times.

Roger Prynne
17-06-2015, 22:54
It can happen with resetting the car as well, like after a crash you will ghost for some seconds.

nono782
17-06-2015, 22:54
I saw this in a race at Bathurst last sunday.
The guy's car was blinking all around and he was crashing the people around.
it is worse than cheating, it is ruining the race.

Roger Prynne
17-06-2015, 22:57
We need more information on this, because if it is a cheat then we need to nip it in the bud.

Martini Da Gasalini
17-06-2015, 23:04
Saw it for the first time in PCars for sure. Last night. Then watched a youtube vid on how easy it is. Scary easy to cheat video games. Knew they must have existed.
But anyway, dude just let me through pulled up behind and BAM, flipped his switch which he had timed well, and lagged right through my car upsetting and crashing mine. Took off clean cause nothing had happened in his game.
Anyone else seen it abused on PCars yet?

wow they're doing this in PCars now?

These Aholes are running around in Destiny, basically makes them take no damage in PVP, pathetic

report the ahole to SMS.

LordDRIFT
17-06-2015, 23:11
Haha PC problems.. they talk shit about consoles playing bumper cars top win but they are hacking the code. . Nice

Roger Prynne
17-06-2015, 23:14
Haha PC problems.. they talk shit about consoles playing bumper cars top win but they are hacking the code. . Nice

What's funny or nice about it?

LordDRIFT
17-06-2015, 23:35
What's funny or nice about it?

The irony. Me saying nice is sarcasm. You can untie your undies now.

LordDRIFT
17-06-2015, 23:37
If this is happening on ps4 please disregard previous comment and resume the ass rape of us lowly consolers

IrideGravity
18-06-2015, 01:36
Are you sure it's not when people are leaving,and entering lobbies.I'm on ps4, and always seems to happen at the most inconvenient times.

Yeah. deliberate. The guy held up his race position and dropped back pretty obviously to do it. He waited. My son was driving and it happened just after after he got it wrong on the uphill left after bridge at Mazda. He cut the dirt on left side. I don't think they appreciated it. Not sure if he had passed those he was chasing, but they dropped back to deliver a message anyway.

Umer Ahmad
18-06-2015, 01:41
It sounds awfully like when a driver has a bad synch or terrible ping. The game cannot figure out his position and trajectory so sometimes it just stops their car or seems like they go off track and then zoom back to the correct position as suddenly a data packet update arrives. I see this occasionally too in MP races and i really dont think it's deliberate or malicious but i agree it does make for some terrible racing. I usually avoid these guys and try to chat them to exit the race.

IrideGravity
18-06-2015, 01:52
We need more information on this, because if it is a cheat then we need to nip it in the bud.

Not sure how you could do it anyway. Ban the reported cheater at best? It's as easy as putting a switch inline on your Ethernet cable and learning the timing. How could you prove that said user was not just experiencing network lag as that is often the culprit anyway. It would more rely on your ability to ban users or ip addresses, if you are allowed too police them at your own discretion, then cool. Ban em. I'll keep an eye out. But not a huge issue to me. I saw what it took to do it. Could likely work around a known cheat once I figured him out. It can't win races for you, still have to pilot the car fast enough to keep up. But it could be annoying for sure, but abusing it too much would get you noticed and or reported quick. Although in the past on GT6. I used to watch people go off only to use there lag switch to reset their position on track. Once guys had it down I remember seeing some pretty frustrating crap come to speak of it. But at least you know you beat him several times in spite of his lag switch.

IrideGravity
18-06-2015, 02:04
It sounds awfully like when a driver has a bad synch or terrible ping. The game cannot figure out his position and trajectory so sometimes it just stops their car or seems like they go off track and then zoom back to the correct position as suddenly a data packet update arrives. I see this occasionally too in MP races and i really dont think it's deliberate or malicious but i agree it does make for some terrible racing. I usually avoid these guys and try to chat them to exit the race.

Nah. It's like getting speared when timed right. I have only seen two or three people since I started playing lag to me, and when they do, it's consistent. It's obvious you need to give them room. Blinking every few seconds. And there are no lapses in it where you feel comfy around them.
This was just a clean as a whistle assassination. Simply dropped right behind me deliberately. No issues, and then he just speared right through me and kept going like nothing, no lag anymore.

Iamlegion
18-06-2015, 07:17
Nah. It's like getting speared when timed right. I have only seen two or three people since I started playing lag to me, and when they do, it's consistent. It's obvious you need to give them room. Blinking every few seconds. And there are no lapses in it where you feel comfy around them.
This was just a clean as a whistle assassination. Simply dropped right behind me deliberately. No issues, and then he just speared right through me and kept going like nothing, no lag anymore.

I may be naive, but it seems like so much hassle. To gain what? A position? The race in a game?? More likely its just coincidence.

Even if it were a thing, I kind of pity the people who take advantage of it. They should probably take some fresh air..

FoxMulder
18-06-2015, 08:04
Most likely just horrible network lag indeed. Talking about using lag switches in a racing game sounds like paranoia to me. And reporting and getting people banned because you think they're doing something should give you a big ol' ban instead.

nono782
18-06-2015, 08:14
I think if they had such a bad connection they wouldn't be able to play themselves.
Even someone with a very bad ping (over 500ms) doesn't appear and desappear like this.

CPS-3
18-06-2015, 09:35
I may be naive, but it seems like so much hassle. To gain what? A position? The race in a game?? More likely its just coincidence.

Even if it were a thing, I kind of pity the people who take advantage of it. They should probably take some fresh air..

I don't know if it's posable what the OP is saying, but you saying "To gain what? A position" No, just to ruin the game for others. There are enough people playing pC online to ruin others online experience. They don't want to finish good or drive a clean race, they just want to give others a hard time.

chig88
18-06-2015, 13:29
I don't know if it's posable what the OP is saying, but you saying "To gain what? A position" No, just to ruin the game for others. There are enough people playing pC online to ruin others online experience. They don't want to finish good or drive a clean race, they just want to give others a hard time.

Otherwise known as 'losers with no imagination and nothing better to do'.

OG-Fed
18-06-2015, 16:26
So far no proof of lag switch, just an assumption.

Martini Da Gasalini
18-06-2015, 19:50
I don't know if it's posable what the OP is saying, but you saying "To gain what? A position" No, just to ruin the game for others. There are enough people playing pC online to ruin others online experience. They don't want to finish good or drive a clean race, they just want to give others a hard time.

this would be a form of Trolling.

Martini Da Gasalini
18-06-2015, 19:51
Hey Iride did it look anything like this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSCOwfbW0PU

Roger Prynne
18-06-2015, 19:57
^^^ Good grief.

Martini Da Gasalini
18-06-2015, 20:07
^^^ Good grief.


I KNOW lololol

that I was like WTF??? trying to avoid him, he got the guy in front of me really hard lol

Mturner
18-06-2015, 20:15
HAHAH oh my Science! WTF is that 'DestructionDerby'... Im so glad I run all my Sessions for 90 mins and force all assistance off! I ALLWAYS GET A GOOD RACE! the noobs just run away :)

IrideGravity
18-06-2015, 20:42
It looked similar to what happened around 30 seconds. Where he ghost through car upsetting it and knocking it off its tires. Accurate in that respect. But like I said it was just the split second. He didn't continue on and crash or suffer any other lag.

Martini Da Gasalini
18-06-2015, 20:44
HAHAH oh my Science! WTF is that 'DestructionDerby'... Im so glad I run all my Sessions for 90 mins and force all assistance off! I ALLWAYS GET A GOOD RACE! the noobs just run away :)


Destruction Derby WOW haven't heard that in AGES, I had the first one :)

yeah when he zoomed by me. upended the guy in front and then spun around did a 180 degree turnaround and kept racing backwards I was like :hypnotysed:

Roger Prynne
18-06-2015, 20:45
Yeah that was a complete lag fest.

madmax2069
18-06-2015, 20:46
Sounds just like a really bad lag spike that happened at the right time. I don't think he was cheating or intentional.

Ran into it a few times.

Martini Da Gasalini
18-06-2015, 20:50
Sounds just like a really bad lag spike that happened at the right time. I don't think he was cheating or intentional.

Ran into it a few times.

I've seen some lagging before but NOTHING like that what happened to me in that clip.

IrideGravity
18-06-2015, 20:51
So far no proof of lag switch, just an assumption.

I simple google search will reveal how to make them. And videos of people demonstrating them.

Roger Prynne
18-06-2015, 21:01
^^^ well I'll be damned I've just watched some of the vids about this, never knew about it before.
What a load of dick heads.

LordDRIFT
18-06-2015, 21:08
Is this happening on PC and/or consoles?

Roger Prynne
18-06-2015, 21:09
All I think as now I've watched the vids it's an easy thing to do.

Martini Da Gasalini
18-06-2015, 21:10
^^^ well I'll be damned I've just watched some of the vids about this, never knew about it before.
What a load of dick heads.


yeah, it's F'ed up how easy it is to make one, smh.

these people ruin games. don't get me started on C.O.D lag switchers WOW

check this guy calling a lag switcher out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE-fkYAslYQ

he's actually funny.

Martini Da Gasalini
18-06-2015, 21:11
Is this happening on PC and/or consoles?

absolutely on consoles bro, check out the vid above.

LordDRIFT
18-06-2015, 21:12
absolutely on consoles bro, check out the vid above.

At work cant see vid. will check later.

Martini Da Gasalini
18-06-2015, 21:14
ahhhh gotcha

Roger Prynne
18-06-2015, 21:19
I'm not sure how it would be much use in a driving game though.

madmax2069
18-06-2015, 21:35
I'm not sure how it would be much use in a driving game though.

A lag switch wouldn't be that useful in a racing game, because you would also run the risk of being punted off the track just like the others you're using it against. Unless you just use it to troll.

Martini Da Gasalini
18-06-2015, 21:56
A lag switch wouldn't be that useful in a racing game, because you would also run the risk of being punted off the track just like the others you're using it against. Unless you just use it to troll.

pretty much

IrideGravity
19-06-2015, 22:07
pretty much

Sure. Not useful at all. No ones using it like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjxPW-VNZyE

Martini Da Gasalini
19-06-2015, 23:31
Sure. Not useful at all. No ones using it like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjxPW-VNZyE


oh WOW.

I stand corrected.

wyldanimal
19-06-2015, 23:37
We need more information on this, because if it is a cheat then we need to nip it in the bud.

working in IT, I don't think as a Game Developer There is anything that can be done about this.
Legitimate network lag is what it is, and causes a Car to jump around the track.

Use of a Lag Switcher Causes the same kind of Jump.
The Members Car position Is Not Updated to the Rest of the Network.
Then when the connection is re-established, The New position is updated, And everyone else See's the car Take a Huge jump.

The only thing that can be done Would be to code a Large position change to trigger it to become a ghost.
so that member is then a Ghost.

Use of the Lag Switch is momentary. A second or 2. Longer than that would drop the connection.
But a Brief Signal loss is tolerable on most networks, with those packets being discarded.

Now if you could prove a member is using a Lag switch, then I guess a Console or IP address Ban can be done.
But how to know if it's nefarious or just legitimate network lag?

Martini Da Gasalini
19-06-2015, 23:42
how is Iracing run? do they have dedicated servers or is there a host?

Same question in PCars, online are there dedicated servers for the online portion or when you create a lobby are you hosting?

wyldanimal
20-06-2015, 00:14
I guess more important is if the on-line is a Mesh topology or a Star topology.
Most people, when they talk dedicated server think in terms of a Star topology.
208414

where the server is the central connection and each member only communicates to the server.
but a dedicated server can still be connected in a Mesh topology.
it still controls the game play, but each and every member communicates to every other member, including the server.
208417

madmax2069
20-06-2015, 01:29
I guess more important is if the on-line is a Mesh topology or a Star topology.
Most people, when they talk dedicated server think in terms of a Star topology.
208414

where the server is the central connection and each member only communicates to the server.
but a dedicated server can still be connected in a Mesh topology.
it still controls the game play, but each and every member communicates to every other member, including the server.
208417

That second picture looks like what one of GT5s online host modes used (multi host peer2peer, where everyone in the lobby does host duty ).

wyldanimal
20-06-2015, 03:26
That second picture looks like what one of GT5s online host modes used (multi host peer2peer, where everyone in the lobby does host duty ).

one advantage of a Mesh Topology is that it helps reduce overall lag.
Say one play has huge Lag to the HOST, but to another member he has a good lag free connection.
His communication path would be the path of best connection.. Him, to the other member, then to the Host..

The disadvantage is, But His lag, would be seen and possible affect all other players connections.

On a Star Topology, Only the player with the lag is Affected. The HOST, then communicates this position to each of the other players
Each player is only affected by their own lag to the host.

In game, the lag effect is still basically the same, but in the Star network, One players lag, doesn't affect all of the others connections.

IrideGravity
20-06-2015, 04:57
working in IT, I don't think as a Game Developer There is anything that can be done about this.
Legitimate network lag is what it is, and causes a Car to jump around the track.

Use of a Lag Switcher Causes the same kind of Jump.
The Members Car position Is Not Updated to the Rest of the Network.
Then when the connection is re-established, The New position is updated, And everyone else See's the car Take a Huge jump.

The only thing that can be done Would be to code a Large position change to trigger it to become a ghost.
so that member is then a Ghost.

Use of the Lag Switch is momentary. A second or 2. Longer than that would drop the connection.
But a Brief Signal loss is tolerable on most networks, with those packets being discarded.

Now if you could prove a member is using a Lag switch, then I guess a Console or IP address Ban can be done.
But how to know if it's nefarious or just legitimate network lag?

Exactly. But there's nothing to stop SMS from viewing footage as these guys made available in Iracing and banning him from the server?. If that kind of thing invited a lawsuit, which I doubt, bandwidth can lag both ways and it wouldn't be hard to drive the player away by lagging him out intentionally for his abuse of the network and servers.

Slicker_VR
20-06-2015, 13:37
maybe if you catch someone using a lag switch (preferably on video) you could start a "NAME AND SHAME" thread in here, thereby allowing other users to vote to kick if he/she appears in their lobbies

wyldanimal
20-06-2015, 15:57
I'm not sure how it would be much use in a driving game though.

as an Example:
Here is how it would play out...

Lets say I'm racing and I'm in front of you...
I press My Lag Switch.
On My Game, I'm still in front of you... driving just as i was...
On your Game, you pass through me as a ghost, or you run in to the back of my car,
because your game has not gotten a recent update from Me..

Now I release the Lag switch.. Remember, On MY game I'm still in front of you... But on your Game, you just Passed me..

My Position is Now Updated to your game... Wham.. I rocket from behind you to Where I'm really positioned in my game
and that causes a collision for you, but not for me, as in my Game, I am in front and haven't had a collision.

That would be the result of deliberate use of a lag switch..

What about real Lag..

Legitimate lag from members, is very much the same..
Their car position isn't updated fast enough to the rest of the network.
On their Game, they are driving along Fine, no stutter, or jumpy positions, no Collisions, no Damage...

To every one else, they Stutter around, are jumpy, and smash into you if you get too close.. you get damage, they don't
They don't even know it.. and wonder why everyone is yelling about their driving..
That's legitimate lag..

Gejabo
20-06-2015, 16:40
Haha PC problems.. they talk shit about consoles playing bumper cars top win but they are hacking the code. . Nice

Lag switches has been a big problem in the first SOCOM games aswell, so certainly not a PC exclusive problem.

I never understood cheating at videogames, what is there to gain?

madmax2069
20-06-2015, 17:30
one advantage of a Mesh Topology is that it helps reduce overall lag.
Say one play has huge Lag to the HOST, but to another member he has a good lag free connection.
His communication path would be the path of best connection.. Him, to the other member, then to the Host..

The disadvantage is, But His lag, would be seen and possible affect all other players connections.

On a Star Topology, Only the player with the lag is Affected. The HOST, then communicates this position to each of the other players
Each player is only affected by their own lag to the host.

In game, the lag effect is still basically the same, but in the Star network, One players lag, doesn't affect all of the others connections.

Yeah I know that disadvantage all too well. Everything would be going smooth until someone join with a walmart internet connection.

But it did help out a kot especially if the guy/girl that set up the room and didnt have a strong internet connection and had the max amount of players in the lobby you wouldn't see a hint of lag, if they used the single host option with max players the game would lag.

Equation
21-06-2015, 09:19
I there is some player who have bad connection is very annoing. It is almost impossible overtake because you don't know where that player is real. I hope that you can make ping limit to your server.

Synner40
21-06-2015, 18:07
^^^ well I'll be damned I've just watched some of the vids about this, never knew about it before.
What a load of dick heads.
my frist run in with a lag switcher was on COD4,it isn't fun. it ruins the game for everyone else.

wyldanimal
21-06-2015, 20:54
Ok Thought I'd end with this..
Lag switches are NOT just PC, they can be nefariously used on any multi-player game. PC, or Console..

You don't even need to make a Mechanical Switch..
all you need is a second PC connected to the same Internet.
Run a little program that floods the Network with traffic, effectively bottlenecking the communications.

It denies the Game from getting it's turn to communicate.
Stop the little program, and the flood ends and the Game starts to communicate again..

The Game could be PC, or Console based..

So Yeah, there are cheaters out there...
Problem is, you have to Know as much or More about what they are doing, to figure out how to prevent it..

and there is no easy way to block Lag switch users, without also blocking Legitimate players whit legitimate network lag.

MLT24
21-06-2015, 21:11
Rule of thumb online is if you see one car jumping/blinking around you know its their bad connection. If see everyone jumping/blinking around then your the one with the bad connection and your actually the one jumping around. Just so happens in this game the net code is very good and I hardlyb ever see this problem.

wyldanimal
22-06-2015, 21:23
Rule of thumb online is if you see one car jumping/blinking around you know its their bad connection. If see everyone jumping/blinking around then your the one with the bad connection and your actually the one jumping around. Just so happens in this game the net code is very good and I hardlyb ever see this problem.

Wow, you Must be really lucky,
I see Lots of Lag when I'm in the On-Line events.
Can't do close side by side racing as you get Lag punted.

here's my connection.. I don't think it's me...
don't have issues on any other network game.
Many of the on-line members have RED triangles for connection strength,
these are the ones that have the LAG.

208760

Martini Da Gasalini
22-06-2015, 22:57
Wow, you Must be really lucky,
I see Lots of Lag when I'm in the On-Line events.
Can't do close side by side racing as you get Lag punted.

here's my connection.. I don't think it's me...
don't have issues on any other network game.
Many of the on-line members have RED triangles for connection strength,
these are the ones that have the LAG.

208760


good ol' speedtest.net

but throughput is just part of the problem sometimes. don't forget packet delays on hop/routes can play a factor as well.

Udd-
22-06-2015, 23:14
Don't know if this has anything to do with it but can someone please tell me what happened to me in this video.
After qualifying it loads into the race and the car behind me crash into me before the green light and gives me a jump-start??
What!!?
https://youtu.be/pLO5CAvAI9g

MLT24
23-06-2015, 04:40
Wow, you Must be really lucky,
I see Lots of Lag when I'm in the On-Line events.
Can't do close side by side racing as you get Lag punted.

here's my connection.. I don't think it's me...
don't have issues on any other network game.
Many of the on-line members have RED triangles for connection strength,
these are the ones that have the LAG.

208760

Where are you located? I'm on east coast usa and play with British racers all the time and I see no lag. I do same test as you, have half the speeds but same solid ping. But those test by default goes to your closes local server network. Further it travels and worse the ping gets. Ping is the measurement of quality. That's why I say this game has great net code. When I play with far away players of course their quality icon will be red but i hv no problem. But to their neighbors it would be green. So that's why I am asking where are you playing from?

Also, are you hard wired to your modem or are you wireless? Is there anyone else sharing your connection? Best case scenario is hard wired to modem and no one else sharing. I know you said you dont hv problems with other games, that's why my main question is where are you playing from?

madmax2069
23-06-2015, 06:07
Don't know if this has anything to do with it but can someone please tell me what happened to me in this video.
After qualifying it loads into the race and the car behind me crash into me before the green light and gives me a jump-start??
What!!?
https://youtu.be/pLO5CAvAI9g

Looks like the guy behind you jumped the start and hit you causing you to jump start as well.

Udd-
23-06-2015, 09:07
Looks like the guy behind you jumped the start and hit you causing you to jump start as well.

But how can he jump start in the overview animation even before the first red-light appears?

jackd94
23-06-2015, 10:15
But how can he jump start in the overview animation even before the first red-light appears?

It's a bug. Right after you qualify you spawn in with the penalty for no reason. If you get this penalty it allows you to drive before the lights come up. Side note, if you say cross the finish line in say 5th position, you will automatically become the winner of the race. The mods said this was a known issue, but still haven't put this in the known issue thread. Just got to face the fact this game is broken and enjoy what is actually working on this game.

wyldanimal
23-06-2015, 19:11
Where are you located? I'm on east coast usa and play with British racers all the time and I see no lag. I do same test as you, have half the speeds but same solid ping. But those test by default goes to your closes local server network. Further it travels and worse the ping gets. Ping is the measurement of quality. That's why I say this game has great net code. When I play with far away players of course their quality icon will be red but i hv no problem. But to their neighbors it would be green. So that's why I am asking where are you playing from?

Also, are you hard wired to your modem or are you wireless? Is there anyone else sharing your connection? Best case scenario is hard wired to modem and no one else sharing. I know you said you dont hv problems with other games, that's why my main question is where are you playing from?

i'll give you a hint...
208877

East Coast USA, Pennsylvania, Lehigh Valley

it's only a problem when we try to do close racing..
either drafting too close, or to close side by side

on or both of use get lag punted... and it seems to be due to net lag..
Because we will both say, that I wasn't even close enough to bump you...

Next time it happens I'll try to save the replay and shared video..
the Shared video and replay always show something a little different...
Shared video will show a Clean race not bumping. but then the car in front, suddenly goes off track
then when you watch the replay, it shows the back car, hitting the car in front and causing it.

Or with Side by Side, all of a sudden your car stop responding, likes it's stuck on or being pulled by a strong Magnet against your driving input.
when you watch the replay, it shows that both cars got together, but during the race there was room..

It's great to race with clean drivers, but when you get too close, weird things happen... and I attribute it to net lag.

MLT24
24-06-2015, 00:51
i'll give you a hint...
208877

East Coast USA, Pennsylvania, Lehigh Valley

it's only a problem when we try to do close racing..
either drafting too close, or to close side by side

on or both of use get lag punted... and it seems to be due to net lag..
Because we will both say, that I wasn't even close enough to bump you...

Next time it happens I'll try to save the replay and shared video..
the Shared video and replay always show something a little different...
Shared video will show a Clean race not bumping. but then the car in front, suddenly goes off track
then when you watch the replay, it shows the back car, hitting the car in front and causing it.

Or with Side by Side, all of a sudden your car stop responding, likes it's stuck on or being pulled by a strong Magnet against your driving input.
when you watch the replay, it shows that both cars got together, but during the race there was room..

It's great to race with clean drivers, but when you get too close, weird things happen... and I attribute it to net lag.

Yeah that invisible bump thing has been in online racing since for ever. But in this game out of about 100 races with friends it has only happened once and that is amazing. Even when I race with Brits across the pond its not been happening. I hope you figure out why its happening to often to you. Hit me up sometime if you want to run some door to door or bumper to bumper to test with me since I hvnt been having the problem. Cheers.