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Marrrfooo
18-06-2015, 11:33
Hi guys,

I was looking through the threads for stuff that specifically focused on the Pit Strategies and Pit Manager - areas I know have been discussed in snippets regarding work that is ongoing - but as it's a fairly central part of the game I felt it could (arguably) do with a thread to focus ideas on the matter (as bug reports go into Technical Assistance)...

Generally my question is focused around what is the plan going forward with the Pit Manager / Pit Strategy setups? This is a broad question - so let me break it down a little to try and be a bit more specific - and in doing so introduce a few thoughts/ideas in the process:

1.) Tyres | Pit Strategy option vs. Tuning option (suitable vehicle recognition)
I know that it has already been mentioned that the compounds that are listed in the Pit Strategies are frequently (but not always) incorrect. For example, when trying to create a Pit Strategy the Pit Manager quite often shows types of tyre being available for a car setup that are not in fact compatible/available for that car. By contrast if you use the Tuning option instead it usually does show the correct available potential tyres for that car (but of course only affects what you leave the pits with).

How long is the issue of the Pit Strategy not showing the right tyre options likely to take to fix? (I know it has been mentioned that it's a complicated problem to resolve - in fact asking this question might be a case of 'how long is a piece of string' – but if it is possible to indicate how long it might take, that would be excellent...)


2.) Tyres | Application of Default Pressures
I have also noticed that changing tyres when establishing Pit Strategies or Tuning adjustments does not seem to adjust the tyre pressures to the new compound you have selected. For example, in the Tuning setups the default dry tyre does always have a relevant car-specific default pressure. When you then cycle through other tyre types (and either apply them or simply cycle through them) the default/suitable pressure does not change from that default dry tyre - meaning the game by default appears to suggest a new compound but is still applying a pressure that was only relevant for the previous default dry compound.

Furthermore, it seems that when you are establishing a Pit Strategy, as you cycle through the tyres it automatically suggests a default pressure of 2.0 regardless of tyre type or car type. It would surprise me if all cars in the game can take 2.0 pressures in all tyres in all compounds...

Is this a case of the game not showing the pressure changing but in fact it is changing it in the background, or is the pressure not changing at all?
If it is not changing it, is there a plan to ensure that all tyres beyond the default dry compound have a car-specific suitable default pressure applied to them as they are selected (like it seems to do with the dry/default setup on each car)?

This would certainly be preferable to having to test each tyre compound to find the best setup (or search forums for them). It can be counter-argued that testing is a major part of racing, but it is not possible to test for wet compound performance at a race unless the conditions are wet - however it would also be foolhardy to commence a dry race of any length without a contingency wet race setup to fall back to should the weather change – but if the Pit Strategy sets an arbitrary 2.0 pressure value then chances are that default wet Strategy is not valid and if the race conditions are dry then the only way to test is to quit the race and begin a wet free practice, which is not ideal (especially online).


3.) Tyres | Car Setups + Possible Generic/Baseline Setups
At present the Pit Strategies are for specific cars (either for all tracks or specific tracks). If default pressures beyond the default dry compound were to be applied (i.e. for wet tyres) in creating Pit Strategies or Tuning setups this could allow the potential creation of generic/baseline strategies that you could create then choose to apply across cars of your choice – or at least to apply to a car and then further tweak to your needs if you wanted to. This would give less experienced drivers the ability to have wet Pit Strategies available for each race without fear of mis-pressured tyres, and would be a simpler starting place for those that like to tune down to fine details.

For example, rather than have to establish wet compound strategies for each car, you could create (or apply if it was pre-created) 1x 'light wet', 1x ‘medium wet’ and 1x 'heavy wet' Strategy but set them as generic/applicable to multiple vehicles as/when you wanted. These, with the addition of the dry defaults for each car, would cover most eventualities at least as a baseline. This would also mean that, when they were selected, it would allow you on the fly to load the most relevant available tyres to the car and have the pressures of those tyres set to the relevant default value for that car. Taking that example further, where cars such as the Clio only have 1x type of wet tyre and 1x type of dry, all of the wet Generic Strategies would simply load the single wet tyre type that is available (perhaps with a small popup notice of what has occurred) and the relevant suggested pressure for that tyre. Of course should you decide this Strategy needs tweaking further you can of course do so and then save it specifically for that car, whilst still leaving the original default-driven wet Strategy(s) available and unchanged.

At present you have to create a wet Pit Strategy for every car and experiment with whether the 2.0 tyre pressure it applies by default is appropriate or not. The alternative is that you choose not to make a wet Pit Strategy and instead fast-switch the front left, front right, rear left and rear right compounds individually when coming down the pit lane in the sub menu before you hit your pit box (which is a challenge on console - plus if you don't complete it before you hit the box the menu closes and could theoretically cross-load different tyres to your car (i.e. 3/4 wet tyres and 1/4 dry tyre - where you didn't get enough time to change all four tyres in the menu pre-box!). If, for example, we are forced to create wet Strategies for every car in the game (to cover the potential of rain mid-race) then that is a lot of profiles to save/load/navigate through. This brings me to my last point...


4.) Pit Strategies | Car Setup Filtering (Car or Formula/Category Exclusivity)
The potential presence of so many Pit Strategies is further complicated by the fact that the game does not seem to discriminate between Pit Strategies established for completely different cars. For example, if I had Strategies for each car, when selecting/activating the relevant one I would need to cycle through not only a lot of Strategies but in order to assist in this I would need to name them with the make/model of car so I can identify between them (i.e. 'Formula A - Full Wet', 'Formula A - Soft Dry', 'Clio - Dry') because at present it is still possible to apply a setup saved against one car to a complete different car type (e.g. I can apply an Formula A setup to a Renault Clio which will also apply the Formula A-relevant pressures – which will certainly end in disaster).

Could it be possible for the game to only show Pit Strategies for the car you are driving and eliminate all other setups from being accidentally cross-loaded?
Or could it be possible to at least have them eliminated based on different formula types (e.g Touring Car loads not being available to be loaded against an Open Wheel car)?



5.) Pit Strategies | Multiple 'Active' Strategies + 'Applied/Current' Strategies
At present you are required to set one ‘Active’ Pit Strategy when racing (the default is the bare minimum). When factoring in all of the poential Pit Strategies that can clutter the selection screen which is a real challenge when performing unscheduled Pit Stops to change tyres in wet conditions.
Perhaps a tweak to this system could simplify things:
For example, rather than simply having one single ‘Active’ Strategy you could choose/tick a small collection of ‘Active’ Strategies for a race (i.e. ‘Soft Dry’, ‘Hard Dry’, ‘Intermediate Wet’, ‘Full Wet’) – but then select one as ‘Applied/Current’ (i.e. what you leave the Pits on). If you then have to perform a (un)scheduled stop the Pit sub-menu would just show those Strategies you set to Active as being the ones you can choose to apply (rather than listing dozens or many more)?


6.) Pit Strategies | Metadata
Following the above point regarding naming Pit Strategies with car info within them to assist identifying them - would it be possible to have a small couple of pieces of metadata recorded against each Strategy that could be visible as you select them but before you load/apply them (e.g. the car it is for, the date it was created, the date it was last saved/changed, whether it was track specific (specific the track(s)?) or multi-track). This would possible overcome the naming problem if that persisted...


7.) Pit Strategies | Multiple 'Active' Strategies + 'Applied/Current' Strategies
At present you are required to set one ‘Active’ Pit Strategy when racing (the default is the bare minimum). When factoring in all of the poential Pit Strategies that can clutter the selection screen which is a real challenge when performing unscheduled Pit Stops to change tyres in wet conditions.
Perhaps a tweak to this system could simplify things:
For example, rather than simply having one single ‘Active’ Strategy you could choose/tick a small collection of ‘Active’ Strategies for a race (i.e. ‘Soft Dry’, ‘Hard Dry’, ‘Intermediate Wet’, ‘Full Wet’) – but then select one as ‘Applied/Current’ (i.e. what you leave the Pits on). If you then have to perform a (un)scheduled stop the Pit sub-menu would just show those Strategies you set to Active as being the ones you can choose to apply (rather than listing dozens or many more)?

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I apologise for the length of the post but actually articulating the ideas takes a little time and I know that more detail is better than too little. I know there is so much still being done with PCARS but I would feel more than a little remiss as an active community member if I did not at least put forward the ideas. Hopefully they are of use in some form - even as a conversation starter in the likely event that they all turn out to be impossible to implement...! :D

joking_aura
19-06-2015, 14:56
OK, I skimmed your lengthy thread and I, too, look forward to a response from a mod or SMS. I feel like the pitting strategy could be improved as it relates to adjustments and tire pressures. A lot of times I come into the pits for new tires to find that the pressure in the strategy is way off from my current tune. I have to try to remember what my current tune is set at. I would rather be able to reduce or increase pressure from the baseline established in by initial tune. This is how it works in real life, right? Driver communicates with their engineer, "Car is understeering in fast corners, add more front wing...Can't keep tires to optimal temp, decrease pressure by x"

Marrrfooo
19-06-2015, 16:48
OK, I skimmed your lengthy thread and I, too, look forward to a response from a mod or SMS. I feel like the pitting strategy could be improved as it relates to adjustments and tire pressures. A lot of times I come into the pits for new tires to find that the pressure in the strategy is way off from my current tune. I have to try to remember what my current tune is set at. I would rather be able to reduce or increase pressure from the baseline established in by initial tune. This is how it works in real life, right? Driver communicates with their engineer, "Car is understeering in fast corners, add more front wing...Can't keep tires to optimal temp, decrease pressure by x"

Thanks for the reply. ;)

I'm just trying to engage with everybody on this.

Its a complicated beast but it's also arguably a fulcrum for deeper enjoyment of the game especially when wet weather fixes (that we know are coming) drop.

It was nearly impossible to cut down any more in terms of post size. But as long as it generates useful debate then it achieves something.

Luke Townsend
19-06-2015, 16:57
Great post!! Fingers crossed it contributes to SMS enhancing pit strategies in the game. I'm sure they realise it needs a reworking and this kind of well thought through input could be a real help.

cmch15
19-06-2015, 17:09
I always check/set pit strategy before the race so have the tyres set the same as my initial setup. It would make sense that these settings transfer to the pit strategy by default but in the meantime it works for me.

The thing I do find strange is that in the general tuning menu (and I have seen this mentioned elsewhere) is the tyres available are only listed as slick, inters, wet, heavy wet and so on, yet in the pit window you have soft, med, hard.

Luke Townsend
20-06-2015, 08:28
The thing I do find strange is that in the general tuning menu (and I have seen this mentioned elsewhere) is the tyres available are only listed as slick, inters, wet, heavy wet and so on, yet in the pit window you have soft, med, hard.

I saw mention somewhere in this forum that the pit strategy management doesn't know the tyres available to the car, hence the different tyre options shown on the car tuning screens and the pitstop strategy screens. I assume that was done to keep sections of the huge amount of Project Cars code separate (for good reasons, software people (myself included) like to do this "weak linking" to limit the possibilities of one part of the code adversely affecting another). But I really think that needs addressing so the pitstop strategies know more about the car they are dealing with and can show the same tyre options.

Chonas
20-06-2015, 11:02
I think basically the problem is that pit strategies arent assigned to the car, they are general and not related to car, and it doesnt work properly as some of the data should be set by default by car. I totally agree this is a very big lack and I think you made a very good work writing your thoughts.
hope this help SMS to think about it.

Marrrfooo
25-06-2015, 11:03
BUMP to see if anyone from SMS fancies taking on any of the content herein... (pretty please) ;)

Dumahim
26-06-2015, 00:03
One thing that has bothered me, and maybe I'm missing something, so if I am, correct me. But the lack of info bugs me. There's been times I've done manual pit setups due to the 0 PSI bug, and then go out on the track with slick tires only to have it start raining 5 seconds later. Or even if I have it set to equip the appropriate tire automatically, I get sent out in rain tires unknowingly and I wind up overheating them before the rain starts and it's hard to get them cooled down again (this will apparently be addressed with patch 2.0).
I'd love to get more information, much like having the race engineer on all races informing me of this stuff that's relevant. "Rain is coming, might want to switch tires," or "we're giving you wets since rain is coming."

Marrrfooo
01-07-2015, 10:43
BUMP for SMS attention... :)

Marrrfooo
07-07-2015, 10:29
BUMP.

Marrrfooo
17-07-2015, 13:10
BUMP.

Anyone from SMS fancy taking any of this on? :) I appreciate it's a large post but it's a subject that's been on-going for sometime... :)