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Flins
20-06-2015, 12:58
hi everybody

i don t know if it has been already said and sorry for my bad English ,i m french
i have a big issue with formula cars ai and especially with formula rookie and formula Gulf because of external wheels .
i don t really know how to explain it but ai cars often cause accidents because of the wheels that are in the car's exterior .I have the bad feeling that perhaps ,ai considers that the spacing between ai cars and player's car does not includes wheels .

if somebody can help me to solve this problem ,

thanks in advance

PeteUplink
20-06-2015, 14:42
I've mentioned this so many times that I've basically given up talking about it. The AI drives the same no matter what kind of car it's driving. It's default mode is to drive like a touring car driver and make contact. In a touring car or a GT car it's not much of a problem, but in the open wheel cars it is because they give you no room.

As an example: I was racing at Imola. Coming out of the last corner, I got a better exit and was side by side with the AI along the pit straight. The next corner is a slight left before you hit the braking point for the Tamburello chicane. I was on the inside with my nose in front. The AI just drove into the side of me causing my car to flip... The AI car, of course, carried on like nothing had happened.

I was enjoying this game for the first week of owning it, but these AI problems are really starting to grate on my nerves...

Flins
20-06-2015, 15:40
I had the same problem many times !

Goldenballs2003
20-06-2015, 18:42
To me this doesn't seem to be a problem with AI not recognizing where the wheels are in open wheel cars, more an inbuilt characteristic of open wheel racing vs closed wheel. Think about it, how many times in touring cars for example is there leaning, pushing and nudging occurring between cars? It happens all the time, mostly because on the whole it's not a problem, most of the minor scrapes and skirmishes don't result in a crash or spin for either car. On the other hand any contact in open wheel cars tends to produce bad results. Wheel to wheel contact whether side to side or one cars wheel contacting another cars wheel from the front or back will almost always result in a pretty big accident.

It happens in RL open wheel racing fairly frequently so I really don't think there is any specific problem with AI in that regard.

My other thought on this is watch the replays with an open mind not an "I'm ****** angry, he took me out!!" mindset. I've had plenty of crashes where I was really hacked off with the AI for taking me out but when I watched the replay actually I was at least 50% to blame.

PeteUplink
20-06-2015, 21:57
Sorry Goldenballs, but I have to disagree with you. I've played racing sims for 30 years against AI and players and I've never had an issue with passing cleanly. The formula AI in Project Cars drives like it's in a touring car where "rubbing is racing".

As an example, here are two screenshots from a race at Imola in the Formula B

In the first I am alongside the AI driver. We are exactly side-by-side. If it was a real world race the other driver would be able to see me. We should be able to go through the slight left hand kink ahead without contact.

208532

Yet in the next shot the AI has continued to squeeze me, as would happen in a touring car race where banging doors is normal, and we made contact.

208533

And this happens all the time because the formula AI doesn't respect the players position on track (they also do not respect the track limits and will cut corners to make passes). I'm not saying they should get out of the way, and just roll over and let us through, but they should leave room when it's clear that they've lost the racing line... Even an inch would do when you're in a side by side situation.

Here's how it should be done. It's close, there's almost contact, but there isn't. Why? Because the drivers respected each others track position. If this was in the game, then the AI car in Senna's position would have just turned in on the car in Mansell's position when they got to the corner.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHf-Ru9JwRI

And this Webber/Alonso video is very similar to my own situation above. Yet Alonso didn't feel the need to squeeze into the side of Webber like the AI car did to me. Again, if this was in game, the AI car in Alonso's position would have driven into the side of the car in Webber's position.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNUvBHKciYQ

PeteUplink
20-06-2015, 22:29
Now watch this video of Raikkonen passing Fisicella at Spa:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLE9veaoFX8

And my almost identical move (until the AI took me out) in Formula B


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaQvEbdL2Bc

There is, quite frankly, something seriously wrong with the open wheel AI in this game.

Flins
21-06-2015, 01:28
Sorry for my English cause I m French

I m totally disappointed !
I really love this game ,but in the other hand I can t play with it well .

I mean ,each times I want to race ,there is an issue .
- With formula ,I have this problem 90% of the time ,and I tried to setup ai between 60% to 100% ,but it s always the same .
- With other cars ,like GT or LMP ,ai doesn t care of you .
- if you are driving slow ,ai behind you ,also doesn t care ,,as if you were not there .
- Sometimes there is an invisible wall and the car stop dead while ai continue the race quietly .
- sometimes my T300Rs loose ffb and I have to restart the game .(I already reduced the ffb to 55),I don t have this problem with driveclub at 100% for example .(but I don t like driveclub)
- sometimes I go back to the pit for some reasons ,but it is impossible to leave it as the car stay blocked and I have to leave the race (very nice after 30 or 40 laps).
- sometimes ,even after the patch ,when it start raining ,I m going to the pit to change tyres ,but modifications are not done .I have to stop again after a lap and to loose time again .
in consequences of all these bugs ,I preferred to stop playing with this game .

at the same time ,it missing some basic features that I would like to see added in the game (perhaps I m a dreamer)

- Crew in the pit (ok ,I know it will be added in future patch ,so no problem) .
- it missing also a tire wear indicator .(please ,don t tell me that it does not exist in RL .tire heating indicator does not exist as well ,but present in the game ).
- the possibility to choose a random weather option in solo mode .
- possibility to apply basic paint (like road cars ) to GT and LMP instead of liveries .(it will be great )

lacslyer
21-06-2015, 02:54
To me this doesn't seem to be a problem with AI not recognizing where the wheels are in open wheel cars, more an inbuilt characteristic of open wheel racing vs closed wheel. Think about it, how many times in touring cars for example is there leaning, pushing and nudging occurring between cars? It happens all the time, mostly because on the whole it's not a problem, most of the minor scrapes and skirmishes don't result in a crash or spin for either car. On the other hand any contact in open wheel cars tends to produce bad results. Wheel to wheel contact whether side to side or one cars wheel contacting another cars wheel from the front or back will almost always result in a pretty big accident.

It happens in RL open wheel racing fairly frequently so I really don't think there is any specific problem with AI in that regard.

My other thought on this is watch the replays with an open mind not an "I'm ****** angry, he took me out!!" mindset. I've had plenty of crashes where I was really hacked off with the AI for taking me out but when I watched the replay actually I was at least 50% to blame.

There's plenty of evidence on these forums, and in the AI thread specifically, showing how erratic the AI can be at times. It's to the point where I've labeled it as them not "maintaining their existence" in a race in any way. By that I mean, they don't give two shits about what they're doing and will do whatever they want with no regard to maintaining their car to stay in the race.

Surely such a sophisticated AI that is supposed to imitate human behavior would have some sort of coding to prioritize itself staying in the race over gaining a single position, no?

Stop trying to blame players for the problems with the AI, it's getting old.

Goldenballs2003
21-06-2015, 08:14
The formula AI in Project Cars drives like it's in a touring car where "rubbing is racing".

I think we're trying to make the same point. That's what I was getting at rather than what the OP was saying about the AI not recognizing the wheels as part of a cars space. I'm not saying the AI's perfect, it's definitely got it's faults. Just last night I was racing Formula C at Brno when a car ran off track on the outside of the first corner, then when coming back on track slammed straight into my rear wheel flipping me over. Huge crash ensued.

As for the issues with being taken out on a straight when there is plenty of room for both of you, yeah that must suck. Agree with you about your vid, he should have given you the room, but I can honestly say that has never happened to me. Not much help to you I know but there it is.

TrevorAustin
21-06-2015, 08:24
It is an issue agreed, but imo much improved since 1.4, used to be all the time, now it is much more rare. Hopefulky as the patches come through it will get better and better

PeteUplink
21-06-2015, 08:27
Sorry, Goldenballs. I didn't mean to sound off in my previous post, I'm just getting a bit sick of the "treat them with respect" comments we hear from people when referring to the AI, and I thought you were doing the same. "Treat them with respoect" is fine if you get respect back.

For comparison here's a video of the same situation in F1 2014:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU0CJ5JNF78

Same situation, pretty much the same move and the same piece of track. This time, though, I didn't get nerfed by the AI.

Carinis
21-06-2015, 09:25
F1 games do seem to have ai performance down pretty good imho