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ssijak
22-06-2015, 08:56
In all driving games that I played and that had crash damage implemented, I felt that it is not like in the real world. For example if you colide 150kph in to a wall, yes, bumpers and some other stuff will fall off (maybe a weel if you drive formula) but you will hardly end up crumbled and wrinkled. Is it just me that have this feeling or? Maybe racing cars have cages that prevent this behaviour, but still, when I watch real crash videos cars get smashed in all sorts of ways that I never see in any game. Until yesterday, when I stumbled on this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiE4R_gfInc
I mean this is not really that important for a racing game to be perfect, maybe more for some destruction derby kind of game, but still, this is sim so there goes my question.

mire2
22-06-2015, 09:09
I heard it has something to do with the manufacture wishes....means : that some manufactures dont want that their cars loose the doors or the car demolished absolutely.....all cars/manufactures in this game got a own damage/crash physic........i heard so ething about that early at release.......

Siberian Tiger
22-06-2015, 09:12
Yes, it is indeed like mire2 says ;)

For Example on all Mercedes Vehicles you will NEVER see that the Door is flapping. <- Request by the Manufacturer

And there are many other examples ;)

In the early DEV Builds we had some Genius Crash Physics, the Cars where looking so good when the crashed, but with the Licensings all Manufacturer said that SMS MUST reduce the Damaging Level.

Invincible
22-06-2015, 09:16
Also, some manufacturers requested that the passenger cabin has to remain intact, even on those who allow the doors to open or to come off.

FoxMulder
22-06-2015, 09:47
I was watching E3 footage and saw an interview from Gamespot with Dan Greenawalt (Creative Director, Turn10) about Forza 6 and he was talking about damage models. He said that they never had any damage restrictions from any manufacturer and that it's just a myth in the industry that manufacturers don't want damage.

Bealdor
22-06-2015, 09:49
I was watching E3 footage and saw an interview from Gamespot with Dan Greenawalt (Creative Director, Turn10) about Forza 6 and he was talking about damage models. He said that they never had any damage restrictions from any manufacturer and that it's just a myth in the industry that manufacturers don't want damage.

It's not a myth. But when you're working for MS and have a sh*tton of money available, you won't have to worry too much about those things. ;)

ssijak
22-06-2015, 10:01
Wait, why don`t they want crash physics to be modeled correctly? I mean, everybody with 2gr of brain who play this games knows that if you hit a wall in high speed you will damage the car greatly, that it is not a fault of the manufacturer of the car if the doors fall of in such ocasions lol

flymar
22-06-2015, 10:23
Basically: Either you buy BeamNG and have such damage
or you buy pCARS and have milions of polygons, dynamic weather and 600 Hz physics.
Unfortunatelly it can't work together. At least not in this engine.
And manufacturer demands are just the tip of the iceberg of optimization and focus.
TBH I wonder how the SMS managed to optimize the damage we have . At the beginning every crash on the track made my PC froze for a bit.

chig88
22-06-2015, 13:20
I was watching E3 footage and saw an interview from Gamespot with Dan Greenawalt (Creative Director, Turn10) about Forza 6 and he was talking about damage models. He said that they never had any damage restrictions from any manufacturer and that it's just a myth in the industry that manufacturers don't want damage.

He's bound to say that though. If he starts dishing the dirt on what manufacturers are asking for they'll start to see licences being revoked.

I strongly suspect developers are subject to the whims of rights holders. For example, F1 2015 will not have a career mode in which you can drive as yourself, which I reckon has been enforced by the F1 bods because they don't want particular drivers being removed from the grid to make way for player names. Just a theory. Either that or it's another mental Codemasters decision. :confused:

rotorrian
22-06-2015, 14:04
Lets talk about realistic car physics........

I want to take too much curb at 150 km/h and snap a shock and go head first in a concrete barrier at 100km/h

Is there a way i can get Project Cars to simultaneously punch me in the guts winding me and breaking two of my ribs, and also kick me in the nuts to simulate my nuts being crunched on the 5 point harness?

Might as kick me in the ankle too to simulate my left ankle hitting the cage from the impact.

Also please doc my PSN account of $34,000 and break my PlayStation for 6 weeks.

I find it amusing how people get so caught up on crash physics yet if we had realistic crash physic the same people would moan how the cars are too easy to break.

And a crash at 100km/h will have your car totaled 9 times out of 10.

Angst1974
22-06-2015, 14:15
It's not a myth. But when you're working for MS and have a sh*tton of money available, you won't have to worry too much about those things. ;)

Yet , an AC developer says it IS a myth ... http://steamcommunity.com/app/244210/discussions/0/619568192800284940/?l=italian

mire2
22-06-2015, 14:42
Ohh noooo.....another new myth in game industrie......well, we never never and never could really be sure if it is a myth or not, because everyone could be the liar about it..............

mire2
22-06-2015, 14:42
Only the developers know the truth....

mire2
22-06-2015, 14:43
No, i think just the manufacturer will know the truth ^^

BioForce
22-06-2015, 14:51
I have seen really bad racing accidents on TV. With real cars! So... :rolleyes:

Angst1974
22-06-2015, 15:02
some interesting links here.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=auto+manufacturers+licensing+for+video+games

Raven403
22-06-2015, 15:06
To me the issue is the disparity between hitting other cars, and hitting walls and other scenery, hitting other cars seems to do NOTHING to your car while hitting walls does what I consider more realistic.

DragonSyr
22-06-2015, 15:19
Yes, it is indeed like mire2 says ;)

For Example on all Mercedes Vehicles you will NEVER see that the Door is flapping. <- Request by the Manufacturer

.....

be more specific , request = solicitation, entreaty, invocation, orison, prayer or request= demand

because this sounds rediculus

ssijak
22-06-2015, 15:35
Lets talk about realistic car physics........

I want to take too much curb at 150 km/h and snap a shock and go head first in a concrete barrier at 100km/h

Is there a way i can get Project Cars to simultaneously punch me in the guts winding me and breaking two of my ribs, and also kick me in the nuts to simulate my nuts being crunched on the 5 point harness?

Might as kick me in the ankle too to simulate my left ankle hitting the cage from the impact.

Also please doc my PSN account of $34,000 and break my PlayStation for 6 weeks.

I find it amusing how people get so caught up on crash physics yet if we had realistic crash physic the same people would moan how the cars are too easy to break.

And a crash at 100km/h will have your car totaled 9 times out of 10.

No, I would not moan. It is like saying that people who request good handling in a sim would moan if they could not go through a hairpin with 200kph like in need for speed or something.
So, as it looks like only the devs can shed a proper light on this.

tarbat
22-06-2015, 15:37
To me the issue is the disparity between hitting other cars, and hitting walls and other scenery, hitting other cars seems to do NOTHING to your car while hitting walls does what I consider more realistic.

Although when an AI car just taps the rear bumper of your car all hell breaks lose!

http://xboxclips.com/Tarbat/337d8e55-68ba-436b-993b-22ce0469f5f8/

I'm surprised Renault are happy for their Clio to be depicted as so unstable ;)

Bealdor
22-06-2015, 15:41
Yet , an AC developer says it IS a myth ... http://steamcommunity.com/app/244210/discussions/0/619568192800284940/?l=italian

I honestly don'T care what other developers are saying. I care about what I have seen during development, and this was damage and detachable parts getting removed because of manufacturer requests.

DragonSyr
22-06-2015, 15:42
no moan for everyone if we have options like (invulnerable - low(as now) - real (Even with 15 kilometers tapping can affect your race)

Ian Bell
22-06-2015, 15:42
I honestly don'T care what other developers are saying. I care about what I have seen during development, and this was damage and detachable parts getting removed because of manufacturer requests.

Bealdor is correct.

DragonSyr
22-06-2015, 16:00
then what about this?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xcpm0iVhh8
why mercedes allow this ? only in pcars not allowed the flapping doors??

edit: also nfs2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6roBDwqvK6Y

Bealdor
22-06-2015, 16:02
then what about this?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xcpm0iVhh8
why mercedes allow this ? only in pcars not allowed the flapping doors??

Read the video title:


GTA IV PC MERCEDES SLS AMG 2011 CRASH TESTING CAR MOD HD 720p

Siberian Tiger
22-06-2015, 16:02
then what about this?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xcpm0iVhh8
why mercedes allow this ? only in pcars not allowed the flapping doors??

Simply One: This is a Mod and not a Officially Licensed Car... GTA IV don't have any real Cars in the CORE Game...

Ninjad by the usual one ;)

Machinaea
22-06-2015, 16:03
Uh your looking at moddent content that is in no way official. Of course unofficial content can do whatever the creator wants as long as the legal deparment doesn approach. Not the same thing when you are actually selling a game.

EDIT: Double ninja'd

DragonSyr
22-06-2015, 16:06
ok ...understood... i dont have gta4-5

fireball1967
22-06-2015, 16:15
i have seen much better damage / crash physics in 15 years old racing sims.

Seps1974
22-06-2015, 16:26
i have seen much better damage / crash physics in 15 years old racing sims.

I would dare to say, 30/40 years old racing sims.

http://j.i.uol.com.br/album/formula1_f_003.jpg

The good old days.

mister dog
22-06-2015, 16:39
We also discussed that here:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?30241-Damage-Inquiry-Car-v-Car

Crash tests included on page 2 :), even if manufacturers did restrict visible damage on their cars, i would appreciate it if terminal damage would be adjusted to speeds way lower than they are at the moment. In one of my crash tests i drove the Megane RS head on into a tyre wall at 190 km's an hour, and i was able to drive on afterwards with a hood and bumper that were a little dented...

Gehzilla
22-06-2015, 17:22
Or here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22702-Car-damages