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Addicted-2-NITRO
22-06-2015, 20:36
So earlier I was racing with some people I have known for a while now, during the races I was running front to middle of the grid.

Then after accidentally hitting the monitor button I noticed the guy getting the fastest qualifying time was using abs tc and sc. so I checked some other guys and they were all using it.

Should these assist not make the cars slower by cutting the power to the wheels in slow corners like other games I've played, grid, f1 '12-'14 and DClub. Or is this a bug in the game?

Awong124
22-06-2015, 20:58
They really shouldn't be detrimental to performance if implemented properly. They should be there to help the driver be faster or more consistent, or else nobody would use them in the real life racing series that allows them. Formula 1 allowed it for a few years and everybody used it. If it made them slower, they wouldn't have used it. And even before F1 allowed it, teams tried to find loopholes to implement it. In my opinion, it's more realistic in PCARS where it is a genuine aid to the driver than it is in other games.

McGti
27-06-2015, 10:34
It's dependend on how well the TC en SC are implemented in game. If you can brake really good ABS is always slower btw.

SpeedFreakDTM
27-06-2015, 10:50
It's dependend on how well the TC en SC are implemented in game. If you can brake really good ABS is always slower btw.

But with ABS, you can brake and turn at the same time.

lordymatsuo
27-06-2015, 11:22
We did extensive testing on this and the OP is right. They are overpowered. We allowed these assists in our lobbies at first because we thought they we're only being used by new players who we're slower anyway and needed the driving aids.

We found out that they can actually be used by good drivers to make them faster. For example I used to race with ABS only as my own choice, I put on SC and TC and knocked almost 2 seconds a lap off my best lap times going faster through corners than i could normally and felt like I was on rails with no risk. Realising this I had a moral decision to make, use it to my advantage or ban it in our lobbies.

Of course I banned it in our lobbies and we now only allow ABS as this doesn't give any major advantages and is definitely an aid to most pad users which helps almost all drivers.

Slicker_VR
27-06-2015, 23:07
But with ABS, you can brake and turn at the same time.

you can without abs too - just takes a bit of practice and sensitivity

ermo
28-06-2015, 00:37
We did extensive testing on this and the OP is right. They are overpowered. We allowed these assists in our lobbies at first because we thought they we're only being used by new players who we're slower anyway and needed the driving aids.

We found out that they can actually be used by good drivers to make them faster. For example I used to race with ABS only as my own choice, I put on SC and TC and knocked almost 2 seconds a lap off my best lap times going faster through corners than i could normally and felt like I was on rails with no risk. Realising this I had a moral decision to make, use it to my advantage or ban it in our lobbies.

Of course I banned it in our lobbies and we now only allow ABS as this doesn't give any major advantages and is definitely an aid to most pad users which helps almost all drivers.

re. the bolded statement, I would caution you against making the mistake of thinking about Project CARS as merely a game (it contains gaming elements, yes, but it's also a sim). In real life, TC and SC can make cars faster -- especially for non-pro drivers. Just read the reviews on the net about Ferrari's Manettino system in the 458 and the 488 and how it allows average drivers to feel like heroes, where the electronics carefully manage the experience.

Not that I am suggesting that you're not a good driver, but odds are that you aren't e.g. Ben Collins or Rene Rast? :)

wyldanimal
28-06-2015, 06:54
Instead of Not allowing them, set it to Real.
many High Performance cars come equipped with ABS, Traction, and Stability control
Even racing cars have it..

When it is developed properly, Yes, the Aids will make you able to drive faster than you can without them.

Most Consumer level cars, have very low grade levels of these driving aids.
The ABS on some cars are almost more dangerous than Not Having it..
Traction and Stability Control...
Try going up a Snow covered Hill with a car that has Traction control... You're stuck, you're not going anywhere.
Every time the wheel starts to slip, the Brake gets applied, and the engine power is cut back.

Then drive a performance car with Performance grade Aids...
What a Difference.. These are real driving Aids compared the what they pass off in consumer level cars.

and that's what you have in pCars, Performance Level / Racing level driving Aids.

creepyd
28-06-2015, 09:54
I'm set to 'Real' as that makes most sense to me.
If a car has it in real life, then I'm going to use it and not make things deliberately harder for myself.

Why race in a GT3 car without using ABS and TC when in real life they do actually use them? Isn't it suppose to be a sim trying to be as lifelike as possible?

When a multiplayer lobby has them disabled, I assume that disabled them for me even though I'm set to 'real'?

Mr.Smoke
28-06-2015, 14:02
I'm set to 'Real' as that makes most sense to me.
If a car has it in real life, then I'm going to use it and not make things deliberately harder for myself.

Why race in a GT3 car without using ABS and TC when in real life they do actually use them? Isn't it suppose to be a sim trying to be as lifelike as possible?

When a multiplayer lobby has them disabled, I assume that disabled them for me even though I'm set to 'real'?

Im the same way. I want to race with whatever the actual car has in reality. Thats part of what makes it a sim to me.

Yes, if the lobby settings have is disabled, that overrides your REAL settings & turns assists off.

Psychomatrix
28-06-2015, 14:45
The physics of Project cars are the thing that makes the game so special. GT3 drives in real with tc and some with sc but that doesn't mean that I'm have to use in game too. Driving without ads are the challenge for me. only in races who are longer than 45 minutes I'm using these ads too. driving with a controller don't allow me to manage the tire wear as well I'm using a wheel. Thats the only time I'm using the ads in races. On leaderboard challenge I'm using them sometimes too because I have a huge disadvantage against others who use them. But not in all classes. but like I'm said the most thrill are driving without ads. So I can learn faster how tires and suspension works.

Sproket
28-06-2015, 15:00
Now I'm confused. I've always just used ABS on heavier cars and no ABS on lighter cars. When trying to tame a new beast that I'm unfamiliar with I have enabled TC only until I think I'm ready? My lap times have always been quicker without TC and sometimes quicker without ABS. God forbid using SC. So now do I just go for Real settings?

JeyD02
28-06-2015, 15:01
Yes! I have been driving without aids for all cars and class and when I always end up on close to pole or pole it's I can noticeably notice how people get around corner so fast.

I actually did not have any idea you can exploit the aids more than one would think. In every track there are certain corners that you can get the most more so with aids than without. Like I say, I always like and willing to go without aids even when people are using it. But it's apparent lol when like ppl abs and tc go through a corner even trail breaking like crazy and me taking as much threshold and fastest corner exit with good throttle control they just pull away a bit because the momentum. I actually wasn't sure if real drivers use aids too. But looks like the majority uses them.


It's a shame, I would have love to see more assist off lobbies and even leagues too. Because I don't want to get too accustomed to aids for now :p

Psychomatrix
28-06-2015, 17:48
Real drivers use ads if they allowed. Driving assist help you not for one fast laps but over the race you're faster. But they have a lot more options to configure the assists so the assists supports the individual driving style.

Luke Townsend
28-06-2015, 18:04
Slightly off-topic, but IRL why do GT3 cars allow ABS when it has been banned in F1 since 1994? It was banned in F1 (yes, for my sins I'm old enough to remember and watched every race since '76) in order to make driver skill more important than the electronics of the cars (same reason why active suspension and traction control in F1 were also banned at the same time). Why it is allowed in GT3, I can only think that the car manufacturers want their race cars to closer match the sports cars they are modeled on. BTW, if you drive a GT3 without any aids in Project Cars life gets very fun!! :) It's quite a shame to drive such a magnificent car with the aids on. Like a lion kept on a leash. I am not the fastest driver by any means, but turn off those aids and things just come alive!! :) Driving without aids is an addiction. Do it for a while, tame those beasts and sooner or later you'll be reaching for the ever-slidiing Caterham Superlight (the best car in the game IMHO!) :) :)

RTA nOsKiLlS
20-07-2015, 08:54
No assists with a controller is fun, right up to the point that the back end kicks out, and there is nothing you can do about it. There is no power sliding out of trouble with a controller. Its just slide, correct, slide the other way, over correct, wall. Which is slightly annoying, as I know I should be able to save some of these moments, maybe not every one, but definitely more than I have.

The Lotus 49 without TC or SC is fun, even in the rain. :)

rams1de
20-07-2015, 10:10
It's amazing isn't it?

People have bought a game in the hope that it offers more realism and immersion than other titles they play, then complain about the use of (and in the case of some MP hosts and league organisers, ban the use of) realistic options.

And what's the basis for many of these complaints/bans? Well, it was faster to be unrealistic and not use driving aids in the other games and therefore it is not right to take this opportunity to use realistic aids because they help you go faster.

Btw, I've no problem with the way people choose to play especially those who want to drive with no aids. I actually admire some of those who set out to make the game a bigger challenge, it's just the above rationale gets me spitting coffee on my screen.