PDA

View Full Version : AA do we really need it?



Bufftheowl
24-06-2015, 17:00
AA do we really need it?

I keep seeing people going on about Anti Aliasing, but I find and this might just be my tastes, that to get my optimum experience with my GTX980 I need to have it off.

Like most people I have some things I'm happy to reduce to a high setting and some that must stay on ultra. Has anyone noticed that there is a huge difference in realism between high and ultra environment mapping? Well I have!

So what I think must stay on ultra is:
1) Shadows, as if it's set to high you can often see cars in the not so far distance without shadows.
2) Car Detail, because it's all about the cars.
3) Environment map which I've already mentioned.
4) Particle Level and density, as that's connected to the car and once again IT'S ALL ABOUT THE CARS!

So why do I think it's OK to leave AA all together, well firstly at res's of 1080p or higher you hardly notice jaggies and especially if you turn the screens sharpness down, which it should be on 0 anyway and secondly this is a video game and in many ways emulates video. like for instance lens flare and the back seat passenger view which is a popular position for a GoPro. The other things I mentioned staying on ultra are the things more associated with realism. Except grass, that's one of the things I leave off as it looks a bit rubbish and anything I can leave to get to the frame rate I want whilst still keeping the important things like ENVIRONMENT MAPPING. Did I mention I love ultra environment mapping? Oh yea I did.

SmileinHD
24-06-2015, 17:10
You won't really notice shadows much as you wouldn't look down spotting shadows from a mile away in a fast moving car, right? I would really recommend putting atleast some AA. If you're concerned about performance, use FXAA as it does not hurt performance as much, although I wouldn't think that should be a problem for your gtx 980. Whenever I see those little annoying pixels on the edges it really ruins the experience for me, as if the game was an old PS3 game made in 2006. If you use an exterior camera this will be more noticeable, however I use the interior camera and the AA still makes it look a bit better. For taking pictures, I recommend using high AA as it will appear much more realistic. I've seen pictures comparing Project Cars to real life, and if they didn't have AA on then it would be a dead giveaway which one was Project Cars.

N0body Of The Goat
24-06-2015, 17:29
I often flip between no shadows (for a good framerate boost, especially in Windows 8.1) and ultra shadows, because if shadows are on but not ultra on pc, you get "hillside fishing nets" and some very noticeable (for me anyway) shadow popup on the hillside bushes at turn 11 of Spa (the ~180kph off camber left hander before Pouhon).

mermoid
24-06-2015, 18:30
There's a HUGE difference between AA and no AA, I can't believe there's anyone out there who couldn't notice it :confused:

Bobobski
24-06-2015, 18:36
I'd say AA is essential to me as I'm on a 42" HD TV sitting around 4-5 feet away. Thankfully, pCars' AA is very good, plenty of options to help you find the sweet spot between visuals and performance - Indeed, lack of AA would really kill the experience for me, or at least force me to choose between food and a 4K TV :D

Robski
24-06-2015, 18:40
Yes, we need AA.

thepharcyde
24-06-2015, 18:42
OP - what resolution are you running? I upgraded my laptop purely so I could run AA to remove jaggies.

robertedell
24-06-2015, 18:55
With a 27" monitor about two feet away set a 1080 I noticed the jaggies big time and need AA.

Robski
24-06-2015, 19:41
With a 27" monitor about two feet away set a 1080 I noticed the jaggies big time and need AA.

1080p on a 27" monitor. Jaggie fest. You really need 1440p on 27". Night and day.

Bufftheowl
24-06-2015, 22:51
You won't really notice shadows much as you wouldn't look down spotting shadows from a mile away in a fast moving car, right?

Yea when I watch replays I see cars often with no shadows. Off the top of my head going down the back straight down the hill at Brands Hatch GP and also at Watkins Glen.


use FXAA as it does not hurt performance as much

Actually if I insist on having Environment Map on Ultra, FXAA does produce stuttering with my VSynced 60Hz Plasma and when I was using FXAA I was still getting jaggies as it doesn't effect the hole image. And don't say turn down Enviro Map cause I wrote this hole thread about my love of ultra Enviro Map. You're gona say it now aren't ya? lol

Bufftheowl
24-06-2015, 23:03
There's a HUGE difference between AA and no AA, I can't believe there's anyone out there who couldn't notice it :confused:


I never said there wasn't any difference what I actually said was I have noticed a huge difference in just doing from high to ultra Environment Mapping and that after sacrificing AA to make that jump "I(I know I actually said "you", it was the royal you) hardly notice the jaggies".

It's a video game and is emulating Video so fame rate=realism, ultra Environment Mapping=realism, but jaggies not so because video cameras even with their anti moire filters still and up with moire on things like wire fences and jaggies. So AA doesn't necessarily equal realism. IMO!

mermoid
24-06-2015, 23:06
I never said there wasn't any difference what I actually said was I have noticed a huge difference in just doing from high to ultra Environment Mapping and that after sacrificing AA to make that jump "I(I know I actually said "you", it was the royal you) hardly notice the jaggies".

It's a video game and is emulating Video so fame rate=realism, ultra Environment Mapping=realism, but jaggies not so because video cameras even with their anti moire filters still and up with moire on things like wire fences and jaggies. So AA doesn't necessarily equal realism. IMO!

The game does not intend to simulate the view from a video camera sitting in a car, it simulates you sitting in a car looking through your own eyeballs...

Bufftheowl
24-06-2015, 23:09
OP - what resolution are you running? I upgraded my laptop purely so I could run AA to remove jaggies.

1080p but some people don't realise that running native on a 1080p screen to really get good sharpness you actually have to turn the sharpness all the way down. Sharpness setting on most TV's is only for sharpening lets say a 720p signal. So my Neo PDP with sharpening off is so sharp you hardly notice any jaggies. Some times I notice moire on wire fences or car radiator grills.

Bufftheowl
24-06-2015, 23:10
The game does not intend to simulate the view from a video camera sitting in a car, it simulates you sitting in a car looking through your own eyeballs...

If that's the case then why is it the game has LENS FLARE then ay?

mermoid
24-06-2015, 23:51
If that's the case then why is it the game has LENS FLARE then ay?

Because it's a dumb effect developers put in every game to look pretty. In the game you're a driver, not a cameraman. This is just getting silly now.

Bufftheowl
26-06-2015, 08:03
Has anyone noticed that there is a huge difference in realism between high and ultra environment mapping?

That's the question I asked at the start of this thread and maybe I gave the thread the wrong tittle.

So clearly AA on or off is a case of personal preference. The real question is, what seems more real to you? Ultra environment mapping with no AA or high enviro map with MXAA?

Bealdor
26-06-2015, 08:36
That's the question I asked at the start of this thread and maybe I gave the thread the wrong tittle.

So clearly AA on or off is a case of personal preference. The real question is, what seems more real to you? Ultra environment mapping with no AA or high enviro map with MXAA?

Genuine question: What exactly do you see/think does Environment Map ULTRA different/better than Environment Map HIGH?

Toxic
26-06-2015, 08:42
If that's the case then why is it the game has LENS FLARE then ay?

Thats in there for the non pro's, who use bumper cam ;-)

Toxic
26-06-2015, 08:43
Genuine question: What exactly do you see/think does Environment Map ULTRA different/better than Environment Map HIGH?

I would like to know this too as i never noticed.

Generally i bump down reflections, shadows and env map when im driving, only up it if i want to record a replay.

Bufftheowl
26-06-2015, 21:39
Genuine question: What exactly do you see/think does Environment Map ULTRA different/better than Environment Map HIGH?


I would like to know this too as i never noticed.

Generally i bump down reflections, shadows and env map when im driving, only up it if i want to record a replay.

Well it's funny you should say that because the difference I notice is mostly seen in replays and maybe a little on the in car views.

I'm glad Bealdor asked because this thread had gone sour.

So first I should mention what circumstances I did my comparison in, which was the time of 12:00 at the Ring in the Sauber Merc. So it was asked what I think I was seeing and what I was thinking was happening with the Enviro mapping.

I'll start with what I think I noticed or as I like to refer to it(as a photographer and videographer) WYSIWYG(What You See Is What You Get). With the EM on ultra the reflections of the sun on the car were twice as bright as the high setting even unpolished metals like the big interior beam with the rivets on the dash of the Sauber looked more real. The result is the difference between the car looking real almost all the time instead of the high setting in which the car only looked real on roughly 1 in 7 virtual camera shots.

So what do I think was happening. Well I don't know that much about graphics but I think the extra thing with ultra is double the dynamic specular convolution light rendered on the texels using an image based lighting map probably a cub map. This spectacular extra lighting effect is only possible because IBL is way less GPU hungry than old fashioned ray tracing.

Bealdor
26-06-2015, 21:43
Looks like I'll really have to try the ULTRA setting then.
I was always under the impression that Envmap ULTRA only adds opponent cars reflections to the player car.

Toxic
26-06-2015, 21:50
Looks like I'll really have to try the ULTRA setting then.
I was always under the impression that Envmap ULTRA only adds opponent cars reflections to the player car.


Yes I'm intrigued, going to play with these settings in the morning.

Brent G
26-06-2015, 23:09
[QUOTE=Bufftheowl;1013276]AA do we really need it?


It'll be handy the next time you blow the engine or run out of fuel.............................sorry ;)